Firstly, I’m now more educated re: the disgusting attitude of Italy’s Premiere. My goodness, is this Europe in 2011? Secondly, although I don’t normally approve of ‘outing’ people, I believe it’s appropriate in the case of hypocritical government members who can hide their internalised homophobia behind making laws, or continuing to support laws which make the lives of decent gary people so much harder. UK ministers take note!
The Italian taste for the Medici obviously never went away. Glitzy gangsters rule, OK.
I’m a Florentine.
you clearly have NO IDEA whatsoever of who the Medici were.
Leave Lorenzo il Magnifico out of this, please.
Outing italian politicians is useless.
Italy is not a democracy.
Italian MPs don’t feel responsible to the people.
They are not subject to supervision by the people.
the Vatican has transformed italy into its colony. We have no free media,the constitution and the judiciary are besieged by berlusconi and his ‘amici’, there is noreal opposition , the security forces scare me, the Mafia controls half of the country….
outing politicians in this context is useless.
I have an idea of who the Medici were. They sponsored a lot of art and culture for which we can all be grateful, but they subverted constitutional government through their huge wealth and influence. No need to pretend they were cuddly bunnies.
That apart, I think there is always value in outing closeted politicians if they are explicitly espousing homophobic attitudes or legislation.
as i said, you haven’t got the faintest idea of who the Medici were.
as Wittgenstein would have put it: ‘Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen’.
Lorenzo was a delightful tyrant, as Hibbert put it. ;)
My view is that generally outing is wrong. Every person should have the right to determine whether or not they wish to disclose any personal information about themselves. That said, there is a clear argument that when someone is hypocritical that there is moral reason to expose their hypocracy.
i agree that individuals have the right to enjoy the privacy of their lives.
When private individuals seek to represent us, there is a different relationship between what these people say and how they behave.
We dont need to know everything about these peoples lives; but the context of what they espouse where they are and how they live is pretty important.
I find myself agreeing with Paolo Patane, you can speculate all you want but if this website doesn’t provide anything more than “we reckon these are gay” without so much as a witness account from a rentboy for evidence, it doesn’t make for compelling reading.
It’s possible the rumours are true, but compared to that website of homophobic US Senators caught with their pants down all they have is someone’s opinion.
Italy is a failed state! Debt ridden, corrupt. Whar sort of morons would vote for what they call a Prime Minister? Disgraceful!
Agreed with most of the comments on here today… Italy is corrupt and although I am normally against ‘outing’ people… These deserve it!
Is the Vatican tail wagging the Italian dog? Not even the Fascists under Mussolini banned homosexuality, although they disapproved of it and raised the age of consent to 20. For a country where it has been legal since the 1850′s the gay rights situation seems to have ground to a halt. As for the Mafia who seem to be calling the shots they could have done with the Kray Twins, at least Ronnie batted for the right team!
Italy did NOT exist in the 1850s.
Mussolini outlawed homosexuality. de facto, although not de jure.
On homosexuality under fascism you can watch,if interested, ‘A Special Day’, a beautiful movie directed in the 1970s by Ettore Scola with Sophia Loren and Marcello Mastroianni.
Thanks, I suppose it was like Egypt is now where homosexuality is not specificaly outlawed but other laws are being used to suppress gays. As for Iraq where again homosexuality is legal, it is probably as bad as Uganda or Jamaica due to Islamic Fundamentalist gangs going round murdering people who are suspected of being gay.
well,yes, it was a bit like today’s egypt i guess.
Homosexuality was a tabu (still is, btw). When caught, gay men were usually sent to a mental hospital or imprisoned indefinitely without a trial. the ‘luckiest’ ones received the fascist punishment known as confino: they were banished to a remote, impoverished village or a deserted island.
Why, Oh why aren’t I surprised?
All committed Christians no doubt.
Christians, Catholics…. so very boring…
Surely the macho style way of life is still predominant in Italy and surely there is a lot of hyprocrisy in this!
I believe that 90% of men are bisexuals, with some degree of homosexuality, from 1% to 100% :-)
This is everywhere in the world! Nature is nature!
Now… I am Italian, homosexual, and live and work in Sardinia, considered to be the southern part of Italy.
In my personal experience I can say that I am ok with my sexuality and the people around seem not to care too much about that, particularly the younger people.
I smile little bit when I read that lgbt live better in UK or Germany than Italy. I don’t know, surely it is really not the truth. HOMOPHOBY is everywhere and gays and lesbians are a easy target in London as in Sardinia.
Here if somebody insulte me on the street calling me “faggot” (in Italian “frocio”!) I have the full right to bring him to the court.
And I know personally gays that have done this, and they won in court.
This means that we need action!!!!
Yes but the reason for that is that you are deemed to have been insulted because you were called a homosexual. I’m not sure that’s something to be so proud of… (ie. the law, not the homosexuality, of course)
A couple of years ago a well-known Tuscan drag queen went to Sardinia to perform there as part of her tour.
One evening she was arrested while waiting for her agent in her car in full drag and charged with prostitution-related offenses.
She remained in custody for 18 hours and was subjected to a tsunami of abuse:
She was verbally abused, ridiculed, belittled and insulted
she was deprived of food, water, sleep and medical care;
she was never allowed to use the toilet;
she was interrogated without the presence of her lawyer (she never saw a lawyer). During the interrogation she was insulted, threatened and yelled at.
After this 18-hour ordeal she was brought back to her hotel and made to undress under the gaze of the police. She was then ordered to wear ‘man clothes’ and pack her belongings. She was expelled from Sardinia and banned from returning to the Island.
The ‘prefetto’ had declared her a threat to the island’s security and ordered her deported.
I agree with Val.
There is nothing to be proud of.
@proudtobeitalian: STOP watching Berlusconi’s TVs, please.
Sorry mate – being in gay in UK is so much easier. I visit Italy often – but gays are rarely seen. Have “tried” to visit gay bars/venues in various cities and they are all dark, hidden alleyways. Time for Italian ays to be more visible – especially the politicians!
I am glad Italy is starting to be put under the spotlight.
While there are many good and courageous Italians trying to address the inequality in Italian society, they continue to be the minority.
Burlusconi knows, thanks to the Vatican, mass Italian intolerance of gays is an easy card to play to sure up support.
The current Italian government is nothing more than organised crime that Barrosso and others turn a blind eye to. This allows organised crime reach into EU and other international governance bodies. We will all have to pay the price if Italy’s poor governance drags the whole of the EU over the economic cliff because of poor governance and failure to implement EU rules – glbt human right being just one of them.
Nothing to get excited about, mostly four-eyed or fat daddies.
Really homophoby is everywhere in UK… London is experiencing a lot of hate crimes against lgbt community. I have Italian friends that recently visited UK and they have been bullied on the street!
PLEASE: note that one thing is to have gay friendly laws and another is the general attitude of the people around. The two things not always walk together!
In the region of Puglia (deep south of Italy) the gouverner Mr. Vendola is openly gay and was directely elected for the second time… I have a lot of examples like that!
I really don’t see this barbaric aggressive homophobic mob of people around :-)
Yes, proud to live in such a beautiful, cultural, sunny, incredible country!!!
To relocate in Uk or Germany? noooo thanks, bleah :-) (sorry but not my taste!)
See, it is a question of time and we will get all the full gay civil rights, just questiion of time!
You saw what’s heppened in Spain and Portugal, they are Latin, Catholics and they have more gay civil rights than in UK..
what you Brits need to realise is that most Gays in Italy do not want to be more visible.
A Big chunk of the gay population has moved firmly to the right:
They vote fo Mr. Berlusconi, watch his TV channels and believe his propaganda. Moreover, they are nationalists, catholics and oppose Gay rights.
If you go to any Italian Gay website you’ll see scores and scores of comments of ‘gays’ who praise the catholic church and attack gay rights.
Sometimes i feel as if I was in a Zombie/Horror movie.
I urge you brits to Learn from Italy’s mistakes.
People’s private lives should be their own, but I don’t have a problem with the outing of hypocrites of any kind whose motto is: do as I say, not as I do (in secret).
Unil Italy gets rid of their ‘idiot’ Prime Minister, I will have no respect for that nation!
keeping smiling when I read such comments as yours!
Till few years ago when George Bush and your wonderful double-face Tony Blair were making their war games etc., telling a lot of lies to the world and starting to make worst our lives in general, I didn’t stop to respect USA and UK, because I have a lot of wonderful friends living there, and because I know the POLITICS is dirty everywhere…
I didn’t vote for Mr. Berlusconi, and I believe that he is hypocrite, but you don’t remember the “trio” Bush-Berlusconi-Blair? Do you?
The three best allies :-)
For this (Blair, etc) I didn’t stop to like UK, its handsome blond phlegmatic gentlemen :-) and its values and beauty despite I wouldn’t relocate there to spend the rest of my life…
Italiano – you should be proud of your achievements not where you just happen to be born. Discrimination doesn’t have a nationality, doesn’t kiss a flag, it’s just that in your country if you happen to gay, it’s just a damn lot harder than more enlighted cultures of the north! And by the by, it’s not always sunny in Italy – the winters, especially in the north, are miserable and depressing!
nooooooooo… you sure that you belongs to such enlighted cultures of the north? sure UK is not such a perfect paradise, surely not for gays… and look at Spain, Portugal, southern France, people are far more civilized, friendly, “human” in a sense, than in UK, and much much more gay friendly than you are… Are they belonging to such enlighted cultures of the north?
As far as I know 50% of cultural world heritage is located in Italy… what does have to offer your country?
No, really I don’t believe that quality of life in general is better for gays living in UK than in Italy! I don’t believe it!
Better sunny Latin Spain than ugly hypocrite UK!
I spend 6 months of the year in Spain. When Spain leagalised marriage there were enormous protests throughout the major cities. By the by – 28c here today! I’d rather freedom under an overcast sky than supression in the sunshine.
Enormous protests but majority of people still in favour, no?
And Mr. Zapatero re-elected for the second time, after “those” enormous protests…
Well, no, I insist saying that Latin cultures are more “human” and permissive.
I insist saying that there is a LOT of homophoby in UK, particularly in London, but everywhere in UK, really, if you don’t defend yourself they eat you!
The attitude of superiority doesn’t really help.
I am just saying the truth. It is just not only a question to have a “law”, it is the atmosphere around, the general level of culture of the people… This is the point!