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Gay civil partners ‘less likely to split up than straight married couples’

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  1. Dr Robin Guthrie 23 Sep 2011, 10:41am

    Not according to the Daily Hate.

    They are saying the exact opposite.

    1. George Orwell said ‘Sometimes, to tell the truth is a radical act’
      (or something similar.) The Daily Hate is not known for radicalism!

    2. Dr Robin, surely you know better than to expect reason, decency or…well…the truth from the Daily Heil!

    3. I read the daily hate article , and even they were stating 45% were for it, and I thought this was good. Soon it will be fifty and over. The older people hold the worst views and those generations are fading. As each year pasts homosexuality will be old news and most will say , whatever. By then we will have full equailty. Postives views on a sunny friday!!! Good for me. lol

    4. Wow, the comments on that Daily Hate article are particularly nasty today.

      Strange how the article about the lesbian Star Trek wedding has got comments saying “congratulations” and so on which are heavily “green arrowed” by readers (suggesting gay acceptance) yet the article about the 45% has a load of hateful comments which are green arrowed. Very strange.

    5. Zoe O'Connell 23 Sep 2011, 2:30pm

      They’ve ignored the underlying figures and used the extract published by the ONS in a way it wasn’t supposed to be used for. In 2006, 46% of people were for equal marriage (The figure the DM quote), but 9% didn’t know and 45% were against. That’s in favour, but within the margin of error.

      We’ve also seen a shift in favour of gay rights of about 15%-20% over the last decade, so UK would likely be in favour if you repeated the survey today.

      (Raw numbers are at )

    6. billywingart 29 Sep 2011, 5:04am

      Of course the gays have a lower divorce rate – they appreciate the respect of civil unions

      While most str8 people realize that discriminatory marriage is just that – discriminatory. So they dont value it highly. A couple spats and someone is out the door.

  2. Galadriel1010 23 Sep 2011, 10:50am

    Great news on the low level of dissolutions.

    It’s sad but not all that surprising to see the huge gap in tolerance between young men and women. Young men are still being damaged by our hyper-masculine, heterocentric society.

    It would have been interesting to see the breakdown between 19-24 and 25-29, to see what difference Section 28 made. Even the youngest of the 25-29 would only have had one year outside it, and that would have been in sixth form when it was too late.

    1. Very good point on society’s attitudes towards young men. I do think boys are under more pressure to behave a certain way growing up than girls. I think that that makes them insecure, defensive about their masculinity, or rather, what they perceive to be necessary traits of being a male. I really do believe this is what causes some homophobia.

      I’m not sure Section 28 would have made that much of a difference (I could be wrong – just my opinion) but it would be interesting to see figures for that as you said.

      1. Section 28 was the reason that I managed to get through the entire school system without anyone (inside a classroom) mentioning gays, their social or sexual lives or anything about them. It was repealed the year I left sixth form.

        In a way, the fact that all I was ever told about was heterosexual sex and lifestyle (and that it failed to stop me being gay in the end) should show people that you can’t teach, choose or alter sexuality. The failure of section 28 to “protect” me from “homosexuality” should stand as evidence that it was totally misguided in the first place and that anyone who talks about “protecting children” or “our schools” or “family values” is ignoring a very clearly demonstrated lesson from history.

      2. Sorry Iris, but the pressure on young women to transform their bodies through dieting, cosmetic surgery and other more extreme measures has never been so intense. Issues about body hatred and eating issues are ever higher, especially among young girls. There is a hyper-femininity to which girls are supposed to conform that is the equal of the hyper-masculinity that you describe. And sadly it plays out among some lesbians as well.

        1. Good points, lilith, particularly about the pressure on girls regarding their physical appearance, which is everywhere and sometimes very subtly too. Yes, this can be hugely damaging to young women (and older ones too, of course, but I feel younger ones are particularly vulnerable). But – not arguing with you here, just exploring my own thoughts – I still feel that that is an ‘appearance’ thing but the pressure on men and boys is more about the way they act. A trivial example: young girls, say 9yrs old for sake of argument, can pretty much wear what they want, but boys have been primed to be very paranoid about wearing the ‘wrong’ colour and ‘being a sissy’. This is, I believe, because of the masculine nature of society – ie for a boy there’s nothing worse than ‘being like a girl’. A gross simplification there but I hope you get what I mean.

          The pressure on lesbians to look a certain way – yes, I totally agree. That freaked me out big time when I was a teen. That is damaging too.

          1. And, of course, if ‘success’ is ‘being a proper man’ then that also explains the amount of homophobia directed at gay men and the particular slurs they receive with regard to their manhood.

            Big topic here :D

  3. I hope the fundie ‘protecting marriage’ groups take note of this, although I doubt they will, as facts don’t seem to be something they deal in.

    I know the improvement in attitudes to homosexuality is good but I was still shocked by the numbers of people opposing it and adoption rights, particularly amongst younger people.

  4. Nothing makes me bare my teeth in a snarl faster than hearing about “faith groups” having influence in law or social policy. How I long for the day that everyone grows out of the need for a bloody invisible friend. Simple truth – IF your faith disapproves of marriage equality, don’t marry someone of the same sex but leave the rest of us (who either don’t believe in your fairy story or have a different interpretation of it) alone.

  5. I’ m not comfortable with the us v them stuff

  6. Dr Robin Guthrie 23 Sep 2011, 11:47am

    The sooner every last vestige of humanities childish belief in all seeing deities is wiped from the planet the better.

    Only then will humanity have grown up and we can just get on with it, without their continual interference.

    End of Rant.

    1. de Villiers 23 Sep 2011, 7:24pm

      That is a rant and totally unrealistic. Far better to change the views of people and to encourage liberal readings of the canon than to sit around like a group of university Marxists planning for the day of the revolution.

      Whether we like it or not, outside the shores of secular England and some countries of Europe religion is popular and in the ascendant. We need to deal with that rather than present it does not exist and retreat into a UK bubble.

  7. Spanner1960 23 Sep 2011, 12:09pm

    There’s a rampant bigoted debate on the DM site: Start ticking those boxes people!

    1. Good grief!!! How can people still believe some of the guff they’re coming out with??!! It’s like a portal through time back to the dark ages! :P

  8. Please, who really believes anything the Daily Mail reports? Rags such as this often skew numbers to suit it’s own bigot base, much as the right wing republican party rewrites history, doctors medical and scientific reports to show disapproval of LGBT people. Polls mean nothing.

    I’m amazed that nobody in our country has gone after the religious cults spewing the garbage about marriage equality and adoption. Why isn’t anyone asking them to provide the facts first, evidence to support their venomous, undocumented claims.

    1. Spanner1960 23 Sep 2011, 5:14pm

      It’s not the Daily Mail itself that worries me, it’s the strength of the bigoted, twisted viewpoints of many of it’s reader that worries me. Homophobia is still alive and apparently still kicking in Middle England, and right through the ‘developed’ nations.

    2. Unfortunately there are plenty of people who believe the Daily Mail, (and they worryingly seem to have a growing international following) despite the fact they often they contradict themselves within the same article or sometimes the article contradicts the headline etc.

      They also had a picture of a man and a pet lamb once and the caption was “{Joe blogs} and his pet dog”. If they can’t even tell the difference between two unrelated species, how can anyone suppose they check any other facts.

      I also think a lot of people “read” the DM because of the pictures and don’t bother to read the whole article, so ridiculous headlines and celebrity photographs are all they see.

  9. Jock S. Trap 23 Sep 2011, 1:16pm

    Not really surprising but I imagine plenty of bigots who refuse to see that Gay or Lesbian we do commit too. Guess it would threaten them and they’d have to question themselves.

    As for marriage Equality facing strong opposition from faith groups.. What the help has it got to do with them? It’s civil marriage not religious marriage. It has Nothing to do with any faith group. Mind you not all faith groups as some do want to perform, however I suspect Christian, Catholic, Muslim will demand religious freedon to discriminate. Shame coz they’ll also discriminate against the other faith groups that what to perform marriage Equally.

    1. Tim Hopkins 23 Sep 2011, 5:05pm

      In Scotland, the Government consultation is about civil and religious marriage, quite rightly. “The idea is expected to face strong opposition from faith groups” is sloppy reporting – it should say “some faith groups”. The largest here, the Church of Scotland, is neutral on this issue; the second largest, the Catholic Church, is against; the 3rd largest, the Scottish Episcopal Church, is neutral. A number of smaller faith groups, the Unitarians, Quakers, Liberal Jews, Pagan Federation and Metropolitan Community Church included, are strongly in favour.

  10. Jock, my only fear is this is not a reflection of the populace as a whole, given Peter Tatchell’s figures of roughly 61-63% of the public supporting marriage equality.

    Iris, I too am appalled at the number of young people disapproving. Obviously, this has a lot to do with what they’re taught at home, parents who are ignorant, ill-informed and bigoted. That’s the base of the Daily Mail readership. It’s very much a mirror image of that other awful American rag in New York, the New York Post, owned by Rupert Murdoch. I’ve seen far worse comments in that paper online than anything I’ve seen in the Daily Mail, although it’s catching up. It’s obvious there needs to be more public education on this issue more open discussion. StonewallUK for what it’s worth should be devising a plan to launch a public education campaign in tandem with the government, get the input of gay couples to explain why same-sex marriage is necessary and why it is unfair and uequal to deny us that right.

    1. Jock S. Trap 23 Sep 2011, 3:35pm

      Totally agree. I have seen many polls which show over 60% believe the LGBTQI community should have the right to marry. The Daily Mail are prime idiots who only publish half the story, leaving out quite important details.

    2. Tim Hopkins 23 Sep 2011, 5:06pm

      Absolutely right. The Scottish Social Attitudes Survey is a well respected academic study of the views of people across Scotland, commissioned and published by the Scottish Government. In 2010, it found that 61% agreed that “gay and lesbian couples should be able to marry one another if they want to”, and only 19% disagreed (the rest said they neither agreed nor disagreed).

    3. Tim Hopkins 23 Sep 2011, 5:13pm

      In that same survey in 2010, 58% of Scots thought same sex relationships are rarely wrong or not wrong at all, and 27% thought same sex relationships are mostly or always wrong.

      Amongst 18 to 34 year olds, only 13% said mostly or always wrong, and amongst 35 to 54 year olds, it was 19%. The problem lies with the over 54 year olds, of whom 46% said mostly or always wrong.

  11. Iris, further, I think we should follow the example of New York that engaged the support of straight celebrities and many politicians. It worked so well that even four conservative republicans crossed the aisle and voted in support of it. Unheard of in any of the six states that allow it. We should do the same. Engaging the Unitarians, Quakers and Reformed Judaism to join us, extremely important.

    1. Excellent idea, Robert. I always appreciate when a straight person supports us. Not just celebs – people posting here, people in the streets. I agree about supportive religious denominations too. Let’s show this is a human rights issue not just a LGBT one.

  12. give us time!

  13. Peter & Michael 23 Sep 2011, 3:04pm

    oh no, my partner and I have been together for thirty years and yes, we have gone through HELL until 2005 when the law changed to allow Civil Partnerships and Equality, it may be OK for young people to shout that they are free, but if one put’s the clock back, you would not be able to see your partner in hospital, the law condemned you to prison, so in 2011 at least you can be visible in day to day life and one can be whatever one presumes to be. Hoping for Gay Marriage, the sooner the better!

  14. If only we lived in a time where that headline needed the words gay and straight in it.

  15. Someone needs to tell Brian Souter and Westboro’ Church this news!!!!

  16. It is also up to us to make sure that the government take a strong stand against the ensuing opposition from faith groups. No backing down and consistent emphasis that this is a civil matter, over and over. I hope Cameron doesn’t cave in as Blair did when the CP consultation took place. If he does, then forget about any more gay support in 2015. If Labour becomes the second party to adopt it as offiical policy, Cameron will suffer fewer gay supporters than ever if he defers to the religious nutters. He’ll lose my vote for sure.

    1. Tim Hopkins 23 Sep 2011, 8:31pm

      In Scotland we have a different emphasis in our campaign – that is, that it is a matter of religious freedom – those religious bodies that want to conduct same sex marriages should be able to; those that don’t should be free to turn away same sex couples.

      It is not just a civil matter; nor is it either a civil or religious matter – the fastest growing type of marriage in Scotland is Humanist marriage. Humanists now solemnise more marriages here than the Catholic Church, and of course they want to do same sex ones. It would probably breach the Convention on Human Rights to allow same sex marriage, but to deny Humanists and religious people whose faith supports same sex marriage, the right to have theirs performed in the same way as mixed sex couples. (Equally of course it would breach human rights to force any religious body to do them if they disagree with it)

      1. It always amazes me to see polls and statistical data asking a group of (I presume) mostly heterosexual people whether they agree with gay marriage and adoption etc. Why should they be able to decide our fate?

  17. 5.5% of straight marriages end in divorce opposed to 2.5% of the 42.778 Civil Ceremonies.

    5.5% out of how many? you can’t compare when you don’t have all the figures. If the figure for straight marriages is higher to start with then the 2.5% looks even brighter a prospect for the survival of same sex couples! Kudo’s to the statisticians if they are saying we are making superior partnerships.

  18. Good grief. What twaddle. I can’t believe anyone takes any notice of the daily mail anymore. You can make stats say anything you like…and as for the comments on the board; its a self selecting group – ppl who are liberal and accepting are not going to be reading or commenting.

  19. Luke, you raise an interesting point. I’d love to know how gays marrying affects hetero marriages in a negative way? After all, it doesn’t stop them from marrying, the will continue to do so. I just don’t get why some religious nutters argue that it undermines hetero marriage. None of them have come up with any facts to support it. It’s been more than 10 years since Holland first legalised same-sex marriage. Surely there would have been ample proof by now of any negative impact. I suspect polygamy hasn’t occured or bestiality, let alone incest as the religious nutters often harp on about.

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