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Comment: Peter Tatchell on Saturday’s anti-English Defence League protest

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  1. Peter Tatchell = A Knob who needs to get a job and stop sponging and begging for ‘donations’ off people. I bet he has never done an actual days WORK in his life. Interfeating little oik.

    1. LOL, so true.

      What a twit he is, PLUS a traitor.

      1. EDL Supporter 5 Sep 2011, 9:43pm

        Tatchell is quite simply having to lie to try and maintain some mental coherence as a gay man and a left-wing activist. “They realise that extremist groups like Islam4UK and Hizb ut-Tahrir, which want to establish a religious dictatorship, threaten the human rights of mainstream Muslims. These fundamentalists have a similar bigoted agenda to the EDL and BNP.” Hizb ut Tahrir calls for gay people to be executed, and for a pan-national fascist state where non-muslims are persecuted and where slavery is legal. EDL defends Universal Human Rights, and wants to protect democracy, free speech, women’s rights and gay rights. Here is the HuT Constitution: . Tatchell knows what HuT believe, and for him to compare a pro-gay organisation with Hizb ut Tahrir shows that he is indeed a traitor. Where is the similarity, Tatchell?

        1. EDL Supporter 5 Sep 2011, 9:55pm

          And there is the EDL Mission Statement: I personally had respect for Peter for the last 30 years. He has chosen a difficult path, because the Left is all about group think, and he has often tried to maintain some integrity and free-thinking against that powerful herd mentality of the left. But I challenge him now to tell us how EDL is in any way comparable to Hizb ut Tahrir. If he does not answer this, he will go down in history as a liar. The fight against islamisation is going to get more intense not less, and Tatchell will not escape scrutiny for his betrayal.

          1. Hang on a sec your saying you have lost respect for him because he has lost his free thinking to herd mentality, but your a member of the EDL, a complete necessity for a herd mentality is involved in the EDL.

            Oh and I have seen first hand the problems of the EDL they are nothing but violent thugs using any manipulative technique they can to try and garner support from people.

            They recently had a protest near my home town in Halifax many of them even passed through my home town of Hebden Bridge, where they smashed up the train station and wrote racist and homophobic graffiti all over the toilets and signs, they then got to Halifax and where swiftly arrested for carrying weapons and starting fights.

            Sounds to me there a group who use fear to control people under the false pretence of patriotism, mush like HuT use fear to control people under the false pretence of Islam.

        2. Ian Townson 6 Sep 2011, 9:33am

          Saint Peter of the Tatchell has done it again. He blasted off without checking his facts and observations. There were several LGBT banners at the the anti-EDL demonstration and four LGBT people spoke from the United East End truck. Islamist extremists form a tiny minority within a minority and influence next to no-one despite there loud-mouthed rhetoric and stupid stunts. In no way can they be compared to the EDL regarding potential influence. Constantly attacking them merely reinforces anti-muslim sentiment and makes the EDL look like knights in shining army by comparison. 60 EDL were arrested at their demo for attacking the police whereas our demo was entirely peaceful with no arrests. What the EDL do rather than what they write tells the real story of what they are up to and it is a record of violence and intimidation. If you look at the UAF or Hope not Hate sites you will find photos of them posing with guns. Presumably they intend to use them.

          1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 12:21pm

            The 60 EDL arrested included the 44 who were arrested when their coach was attacked by 150 muslim fascists on Whitechapel Road. It’s all fully reported in the Daily Mail. Of course, none of the muslims (who poliice had to charge in riot gear were arrested).


            Typical deluded left-wing lies. You should be ashamed of yourself.

            Others arrested were making sure that Tommy was NOT snatched by the police because he was taking part in a democratic protest, despite the draconian and anti-democratic terms of his police bail.

          2. Ian Townson 6 Sep 2011, 3:01pm

            You provoked the attack on your coach by coming to Tower Hamlets in the first place to deliberately stir up trouble. Well you got it. Never ashamed when it is payback time for EDL thugs. Retribution for all the intimidation against mosques, muslims, Asian businesses and individuals that your members often boast of. They are not averse to bouts of foul-mouthed queer bashing either. Your leader is associated with the BNP which is a fascist party. That should be enough to let people know where his politics and that of the EDL really lie.

          3. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 4:43pm

            So, you are saying that muslims should be prevented from travelling outside of muslim enclaves are you? The coach was returning to Nottingham. Any sat nav taking you out of London is going to take you along Mile End Road, in order to get you to the the M11, in order to get you to the M1, which goes to Nottingham.

            You have been found out trying to massage the arrest figures. The people who were attacked were arrested. Note how none of the hundreds of muslims involved in the attacks were arrested.

            And what has EDL been saying: there is a 2-tier system in this country. And that was demonstrated when the islamo-fascist who was prosecuted for the Gay Free Zones stickers was charged with vandalism, rather than incitement to hatred. Even that dimwit Gilbert who opposes the EDL at every opportunity was aghast at the outcome of that.

          4. EDL Supporter I just have one name for you Alan Lane. A major collaborator in the EDL, in fact even came up with the name English Defence League Alan Lane also gives alot of funding to the BNP and was also involved in the National Front.

            It shows who you are if you fancy doing your research behind your organisation you would realise its nothing but the same old Fascists just under a different banner.

          5. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 12:23pm

            Hamish “EDL Supporter I just have one name for you Alan Lane.” I am really embarrassed. Really embarrassed that you are so stupid. His name is ALAN LAKE, and I was having dinner with him last night. He runs an organisation whose whole mission is the protection of civil liberties and secularism. If you had a clue about these events you would know that his funding of EDL consisted of buying some sound equipment for a demo. And where do the islamo-fascists get their (very expensive) sound equipment from? The Government’s Prevention of Terrorism programme, which in one year gave £150 million to any islamic fundamentalist group that stopped short of encouraging suicide bombings. Thank god for people like Alan Lake – since our own government is funding islamic extremism. I hope your demonstration of your total ignorance is now enough to shut you up. Let’s see Tatchell answer his likes about EDL = HuT.

          6. Who cares what his name is he still was involved with the fascist National Front, plus funded the BNP.

            He may not have funded you much though at all still makes things a bit dodgy but he was involved in organising it even coming up with the name English Defence League.

            So you deal with fascists and then try and tell us your not a fascist party.

          7. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 2:03pm

            Hamish, if you cannot even get Alan Lake’s name right, why on earth should anybody believe your ridiculous lies about him finanicing the BNP and the National Front? The man has ONE aim, and that is the defence of our civil liberties. This is his website. All the far-right organisations in Britain hate the EDL (BNP, C18, Stormfront). They see EDL as traitors because EDL supports Israel and welcomes non-white people into the organisation. This is Alan Lake’s organisation: Only a stupid UAF drone would think there was any similarity between 4F and the BNP.

          8. So everything people say that you don’t like are fantasists and liars. Isn’t that what religious fundies do?

      2. A traitor really? I was unaware he’d ever tried to kill our head of state. Do provide evidence or if not sit down with a dictionary and learn what words actually mean before you use them.

      3. In what way is he a traitor?

        1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 4:45pm

          He sides with muslims who would kill us all, and trashes white working class people based on their race. He’s a racist and a qusiling, and he is a traitor to gay rights.

          1. Staircase2 6 Sep 2011, 5:43pm

            @EDL Supporter What a load of old bollocks!
            Peter Tatchell has a fine history of standing up for gay rights probably long before you even knew you were gay yourself!

            The one thing here for me is that actually I found some of his language unusually inflammatory.

            I may take issue with some of what he’s said in this statement but generally I give him my full support for the work he does which is much needed (if mostly taken for granted by many of the idiots posting on here!)

      4. Jock S. Trap 8 Sep 2011, 11:14am

        Why do I get the feeling you know nothing about what your talking about?

        Oh thats right, coz you don’t!

    2. Peter is an honorable man. Many of us respect him as we know him in person not just by words of cowards commenting on forums who are hiding their identity and slagging off his work. Peter has face, name and guts to do stuff many of us wouldn’t even dream about. He also has my donations to his organisation.

      1. EDL Supporter 5 Sep 2011, 10:02pm

        If he is an honorable man, why has he lied about EDL, comparing it to an organisation that wants to kill gay men and wants to introduce religious apartheid? Show me where EDL makes those kinds of statements or anything remotely similar — if you can’t then you are an idiot who subsidises a liar. The police have been saying for 6 months EDL “are not extreme right wing”, and telling muslims they need to be in dialogue with EDL.

        1. The evidence s on youtube – showing EDL thugs storming a restaurant in Leicester, threatening women and children.

          I saw your drunken supporters at Liverpool Street Station on Saturday morning as well…. and the racism on the facebook page. Ugh!

          Support of LGBTs is cynical. Ask the same supporters in a football stadium about that and they would give a different answer.

          1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 8:18am

            So, according to AdrianT the 13% of the prison population are there because they have implemented islam? They describe themselves as muslim, but they are 3x more criminal than the average person. Support of LGBT people is what it is — no-one on the EDL demos attacked the obviously gay or muslim people who were there. Not like Tatchell’s experiences surrounded by communist, muslims, the media and the police.

          2. I’ve been to Anti-EDL Demo’s, I got homophobic abuse shouted at me while I was there, I got followed after I left with 2 of your thugs coming out with more homophobic abuse and behaving threatening and I’m supposed to believe these people are for gay rights my arse.

            They just hate muslims more than gay people for the moment.

          3. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 12:25pm

            Hamish, since you don’t even know how to use an apostrophe, even I feel like shouting homophobic abuse at you.

          4. Wow with that reasoned logic I don’t understand how you’ve not wiped out muslims everywhere already.

        2. EDL Supporter you are a binary thinker. Anti gay muslims don’t make the EDL good. I wish you’d all mind your own business. All the EDL is doing is exposing the gay far right

          1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 12:17pm

            I wish you’d mind your own business. What are you doing to protect gay people living in muslim enclaves? It transpires that even Tatchell himself chooses to live far away from Tower Hamlets.

          2. EDL supporter, he’s lived in South London for decades – it’s completely beside the point to discuss where someone lives. Idiot.

        3. I’ve been attacked by your thugs. My friends have been attacked by your thugs. I’ve had your supporters screaming ‘Faggot’ at me ‘Dyke’ and ‘Tranny’ being other favourites. (because not only do they lack originality they are apparently unable to tell the difference between a male and a female unless you have a shaven head if male or breasts the size of a small planet if female anyone in between just seems to confuse them)

          Yeah of course you’re inclusive, what utter rubbish. Your mission statement can say what it damn well likes but then I can say I’m an astronaut doesn’t make it true on the ground

          1. Well said Charley – and you know what, you won’t get a response.

          2. So no different from the anti lgbt tirade of abuse from asian youth in east london.

          3. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 12:15pm

            Won’t get a response? Here it is. Provide us with the Crime Reference Number, and which police station you reported it to and when it supposedly happened. Where there any witnesses? Why hasn’t it been reported in the press.

            If you can’t provide these, then you are a liar and a fantasist.

          4. Do you really think at an EDL protest anyone cares about individual people who are getting abuse when 1000’s of people are walking around looking for an excuse to start a fight, I don’t think so.

            I don’t know if Charley was there as an Anti-EDL protester but I know when I was there it was very much if you where protesting and you got hurt it was your fault for getting involved.

          5. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 12:29pm

            Well, clearly he wasn’t there. 24 hours later and he’s provided NO DETAILS of his fantasy victimhood. Since this entire thread is based on lies by Tatchell (saying EDL = HuT), why on earth should a no-mark like Charley bother to tell the truth. Tatchell has shown how unprincipalled and dishonest he is. He’s a self-seeking opportunist. Tell us Tatchell, since you love islam so much, why are you living in West London instead of the “gloriously multi-cultural” Tower Hamlets?

          6. Would you like Charley to also provide bank details for you too?

            Ultimately there are many in the EDL who have a big issue with gay men and women. They’re not an all-inclusive bunch of merry crusaders who challange the many headed Islamic hydra. It’s naive to even consider that.

            However, I understand why the EDL exists and I understand that people are frightened and scared.

            But really accusing someone of being a fantasist and a liar is not going to help your cause.

    3. @Matthew: your spiteful and inaccurate remark makes you seem far more of an oik than PT could ever be. Go back to your work (which I’m sure is of great benefit to the world).

    4. Staircase2 6 Sep 2011, 5:46pm

      @Matthew What a crock of reactionary bollocks! (try saying that with 10 marbles in your mouth!)

      ‘Sponging’ my arse! And by ‘interfeating’ Im assuming you mean ‘interfering’ …lol
      (although quite why you would equate standing up for human rights with ‘interfering’ beggars belief!)
      Oh yeah: ‘oik’ by arse!

      Same goes for Pepa down below! (If only your brain and your conscience were as sexy as your muscles we’d all be much happier! lol)

  2. Tatchell is wrong on this one… the EDL is not far right, merely they are against the artificial imposition of forced multi-culturalism and shoving down the English people’s throat the anti-gay anti-woman, anti-democracy, anti-western values of the Islamofascists.

    Tatchell is now sending conflicting messages, since when do Muslims EVER come out and support gays?

    But I guess the Pinknews jonestown equality Utopian cultists will side the Islam and say how good it is knowing full well they preach hate, and murder of gay people.

    1. bear babe 5 Sep 2011, 6:31pm

      the EDL is not far right… LOL

      Oooh but pepe can get far right up my arse any day wwooooooooof!!!!!!

      1. Blogs don’t count remember?

        1. They do if they contain undeniable proof of the EDL’s militant members.

      2. Yet bear babe and her liberal fascist pro-Islamists will excuse and PROTECT the murder of gay people, the advocacy for the death penalty by Muslims, the torture of gays in public all for the sake of tolerating this fascistic anti-western movement of Islamofasicism.

        Gay leftists have screwed the community to its natural breaking point, just like some of us here show disdain for christianity because of its homophobia, why can’t we do the same for Islam? Or are muslims special? Are they now the exception to the rules? Hence would you allow them to murder gay people in East London since they are the exception to the rules and logic?

        You hypocrites need to decide between the gay community or your utopian muslim-loving sick fetish. Its that simple.

        1. Paddyswurds 5 Sep 2011, 10:54pm

          Has anyone else noticed that Keith is gone and pepa is back….hmmmm

          1. huh?

            Who the hell is keith? And what does keith have to do with Islamofasicism?

          2. huh?

            Who the hell is keith? And what does keith have to do with Islamofasicism?


          3. Staircase2 6 Sep 2011, 5:51pm

            nice muscles though – if only he’d shut up with the reactionary bollocks he’d be far more appealing….

      3. Just a thought experiment – look at the following paragraph and let me know what you think

        Muslims are not homophobic… LOL


        I can almost hear screams of generalisation and racism already…

        1. Staircase2 6 Sep 2011, 5:53pm

          Thats not a paragraph…..(well…maybe technically it COULD be a paragraph – but I certainly wouldn’t call it an experiment in ‘thought’ – more like an experiment in REACTIONARY RIGHT WING BOLLOCKS!)

          1. Staircase2 6 Sep 2011, 6:02pm

            Mind you, here’s my own thought experiment for all you chronic knee-jerkers to ponder over while nibbling on your custard:

            ***What do you get if you cross a turkey with a zebra crossing? A: a sad old reactionary fvck who spends all his time on Pink News SLAGGING off other people in case theyre ‘different’ (read: “Im ignorant of”) from them!

            EDL should stand for Experientially Dense & mentally Lethargic…

            or possibly: End of Da Line… (Even bigotry has to end somewhere….)

            Or (ooh! ooh! ooh!) how bout: Extremely Doughnut brained Lager Lout
            (where ‘L’ stands for both ‘Lager’ & ‘Lout’)

            Oh Happy Days! :)

          2. what about the b for brain? It would be EDBL.

    2. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 7:41am

      …typical ignorant zionist illiterate rubbish from the United States, a country mired in corruption,racism, homophobia and out and out stupidity. A country with the highest rate of illiteracy of any western nation and a country being destroyed from the inside by rampant fundamentalist xtians who are so illiterate they think a book compiled of oral tradition stories passed down from fearful, ignorant desert tribes, four thousand years ago and edited by a tyranical Puritan English king in 1604, is a book dictated by some imaginary deity who lives on a cloud, and is relevant to the world in the 21st century. A country which supports vile dictators worldwide because it suits their multinational agenda and financial corruption. A country which has become a far right pariah which is so indetbted that it will take a thousand years just to pay the interest alone…..And you dare to talk of anti western values? WTF???

      1. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 7:43am


      2. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 7:45am

        ….a country which is so indebted to China , a dittatorial Communist country that it will…..

    3. So did you think all that yourself or are you (more likely from the language used) merely spouting the latest leaflet/email offering.

      Critical thinking is the ability to objectively analyse what you read and is a very useful skill I would suggest to try and develop it and formulate your own opinion in your own words rather than merely regurgitating someone else’s.

      1. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 1:07pm

        …as you didnt adress your comment to anyone in particular, one has to assum you are addressing pepa. However if it is my comment you are blathering about, be assured I do not cut and paste and anything appearing under my tag is entirely my own work and entirely my own opinion. I, in case you are wondering, have lived for extended periods in the US amongst other places around the globe and am well aware of what is going on. Perhaps you would be so kind as to point out from what leaflet /e.mail my words are regurgitated. You on the other hand seem to be rather ignorant of world affairs, if as you have demonstrated, you think that there is no truth or merit in what I have written. You also appear to be a dump and run visitor to these pages otherwise you would recognise my writing style and know that my comments are entirely my opinion. Perhaps it is you who needs to exercise some “Critical thinking (and) the ability to objectively analyse what you read “

        1. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 1:09pm

          ….address **, assume**,

    4. Staircase2 6 Sep 2011, 5:50pm

      @Pepa: ….er…..all the time you numpty!
      I suggest you make a t-shirt saying:
      Some Gays Are Muslim
      Get Over It!

      ps your pic isnt on the name tag so Im guessing someone else took the liberty of logging in as you (although I guess they clearly didnt have to try too hard to sound as right wing and reactionary as you do on a regular basis – ‘EDL Supporter’ perhaps?)

  3. Isnt Tatchell dead yet?

    No to all the hate Peter Says.
    I say to Peter, I hate you 100% you just cant help yourself medding in other peoples business, and disrupting peoples right to expression.

    Did anyone give Peter a slap?
    That footage of him getting one in Moscow still brings a smile to my face.

    That Ashley looks a bit young to be hanging around with a old codger like Tatchell.

    1. Nasty comment. Peter has done so much for gay rights.

      1. Not sure about that. He’s done a lot of things that most of us, actually all of us don’t do… I got to give it the Twit, he is very unique… yet whatever he is doing is actually affecting gay people in a positive light and has changed our lives for the better still remains to be seen.

        Seems to me that he is more interested in left wing causes than he is with gay rights, so to me he is just another socialist sympathizer who uses gay rights and gay people to advance his greeny, lefty, anti-western agenda. Hence why he sides with the HOMOPHOBES of Islam and not with the pro-gays of the EDL.

        What a shame and a waste of talent.

        1. Erm I’m sorry his advancement of Gay rights is yet to be seen, you do realise he has been campaigning for Gay rights for years and yes he has more than cause, something I see as a good thing as it gives him a balanced perspective and allows him not to get obsessive with singular issues.

          1. “More than one cause” I was meant to say

          2. agreed, Hamish..

        2. Peter Tatchell first started to campaign for LGBT rights, I believe, in 1973 when he attencded a youth conference in the DDR and challenged the communist regime to take up the oppression of LGBT people as a serious political issue.

    2. It is a nasty comment. He has done so much for LGBT advancement and I can only commend what he did in Moscow despite the vile regime there being violent thugs towards him! I admire what he did on Saturday too and like the idea of linking Islamism with the BNP for example but try getting that passed Peter’s left wing friends the UAF…. no chance! UAF = SCUM.

      1. I used to be a member of UAF and I admit I couldn’t carry on due to its links with Fascist muslim organisation’s but the UAF has good aims just seemingly misguided view of what makes a fascist.

        1. shame on you for becoming embroiled , brainwashed by such a fascist group as the uaf to begin with.

          1. It has done alot to fight against fascism before unluckily it has lost sight of what they are fighting against I would still not class them as fascists.

        2. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 12:34pm

          The UAF are fascists. They do not believe in diversity – they are using islam as a vehicle for their communist politics (Martin Smith, Weymann Bennett, and the other leaders are all SWP). Just like in the Iranian Revolution, the communists thought they could use the mullahs. When the revolution was over, the religious muslims turned on the communists and killed them. The UAF will use violence to silence dissent, just like islamic fundamentalists, just like N*zis, just like Stalinists. Every time I hear of the EDL going into a UAF meeting and disrupting it, I give a cheer. It gives the totalitarian scum a taste of their own medicine.

          1. Gay Daily Mail Reader 10 Sep 2011, 1:11pm

            A common enemy may unite groups of disparate people but what happens when that enemy is removed. At the moment it is Muslims. The BNP are campaigning on an anti-Muslim ticket but what if for arguments sake all our Muslims packed their bags and left the UK? The BNP will revert to their true colours of being an anti-Semetic party who supports the Muslim Palestinians in their quest to exterminate the Israeli state. Furthermore the BNP who say that they are prepared to tolerate closeted homosexuality (probably in order to panda to some of the gay community in their opposition to Islamic extremism) will become virulently anti gay like they used to be, calling for the recriminalisation of gays. As for the EDL, who will be their next bogeymen?

        3. UAF basic principle is to close down debate by banning organisations they deem unsuitable to have a say in this country. Of course it is fascist. the way UAF act you’d think it was a EDL recruitment agent. UAF = Scum and fascist. Middle class left wing charade.

          1. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 9:59am

            Muslim extremists, UAF and “gay community leaders” are all EDL recruiting agencies. Go back six months ago on this site and on left-wing sites, and see the difference in the way people talk about EDL.

            Still waiting for the hypocrite and liar Peter Tatchell to explain in what way a human rights organisation like EDL is in any way comparable to a homophobic, anti-semitic, theocratic, pan-national dictatorship.

          2. They’re both about hating minorities.

          3. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 2:07pm

            With 1.2 billion muslims in the world, in what way are they a minority? If EDL was about hating minorities, you wouldn’t have a jewish division, a sikh division, a lgbt division. There wouldn’t be muslims who go to EDL demos. Hizb ut Tahrir has been spreading its anti-democratic poison in the UK for 20 years. EDL is going to stop it, because no-one else will.

  4. Gays and muslims unite?!?

    Might as well say gays and the third Reich unite

    or gays and the family research council unite..

    these morons look silly

    1. No. You’d have to be a member of the BNP/EDL to unite with the third reich.

    2. Jock S. Trap 9 Sep 2011, 8:50am

      Wouldn’t expect someone like you to get it.

  5. From the man himself now admitting with evidence there are plenty of anti gay fascist Islamist fanatics in the UAF. UAF = SCUM!!!!

    1. I was a member of the UAF for a long time but once I realised they did deal with fascist muslim organisations I had to quit. I still occasionally go to fight the EDL but will no longer call myself UAF, but the UAF have a good philosophy in general unluckily they have a misguided view of what makes a fascist.

      1. Good for you. It is certainly logical to protest against EDL but UAF method actually encourages people to have sympathy with the EDL. I could never be a member of the fascist UAF, it’s a middle class left wing fascist organisation that defends the rights of Islamic extremists but condemns working class people with grievances about Islam, particularly regarding LGBT persons and women. UAF is a fascist organisation as it wants to close down debate if it ins’t based on their terms/ or they disagree with.

        We need an organisation that says NO to racism, bigotry, and that includes extreme Islam and includes people from both right and left in the UK.

        1. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 10:04am

          “We need an organisation that says NO to racism, bigotry, and that includes extreme Islam and includes people from both right and left in the UK.”

          It exists. It’s called EDL. It has left-wingers, right-wingers, anarchists (never know if they are left or right); it has working-class, middle-class; it has gay and straight; it has black and white; it has muslims, jews and sikhs.

          The only thing that is stopping it from getting the reporting it deserves is the class-hatred of the middle class for the working class. The middle class like to take over all working-class organisations, because fundamentally they hate and despise the working class.

          The Labour Party is run by middle-class professionals (as is every political party); all the hard-left organisations are run by the middle class. There are lots of trade unionists who support EDL – but since there is such a grip of political correctness within trade unions, they don’t dare speak out.

  6. Stupid Peter Tatchell, when will he learn?

    He’s “muslim friends” wanted to kick him out of the demo! LOL

  7. bearshaped 5 Sep 2011, 6:20pm

    Power to him…

  8. Does anyone think Peter T is a bit naive?

    He does have good intentions but his vision for the future regarding Islamic support for homosexuals is a bit far fetched.

    1. 44 years ago being gay was illegal in this country, 500 years ago it was punishable by death. This is all based on a religion that has now been around for 2000ish years Islams only been around for 1400 years by comparison so
      a)in terms of religious tolerance development they’re pretty comparable to christianity
      b) with intelligent rational criticism and development religions and their adherants can change their viewpoints.
      c)there are still christians who would like to see gay people stoned, hung, whipped, criminalised, who force women to dress conservatively, who discourage if not actually prohibit social and physical contact between boys and girls of any kind. Who are just as, if not more, fundamentalist as the muslims you claim to oppose yet I’ve yet to see the EDL criticising them.

      You dislike fundamentalism then you need to fight it in every religion otherwise you’re just a hypocrite using protecting gay people as an excuse to bash another group.

      1. religion is for stupid, stupid people.

        Religion was invented to give meaning to the lives of desert dwelling, illterate peasants thousands of years ago.

        There is absolutely zero evidence for the existence of this ‘god’ thing.

        REligion is the enemy – even ‘moderate’ religions.

      2. Indeed you’re right that there can be distinctions between Christianity and Islam and other religions/non religious but in my view, the problem with homosexuality and Christianity is slowly getting better, there are gay priests for example. The last census stated over 70% of the UK class themselves as Christian, gay people enjoy support from a majority of Brits and that includes a majority of Christians. A few years ago a poll from on Muslim attitudes to homosexuality showed 100% of them thought it was immoral. Many Christians believe homosexuality is immoral and that is to be condemned but the figure is not 100%, I wouldn’t even say to was half – in the UK anyway!

        Look around the world, ‘Christian’ countries have far more advanced LGBT rights than any Muslim country. In Fact, most Muslim countries want me to live an oppressed life where as most Christian countries, I can live as a gay man. The UK is moving, albeit slowly towards equality for LGBT persons but….

        1. “Indeed you’re right that there can be distinctions between Christianity and Islam plus others and other religions/non religious”…. SORRY, what I meant was, condemnation of homosexuality exists in Islamic as well as Christian communities, of course it does, there are often NO distinctions on many levels.

      3. The events in Tower Hamlets against gay people, electing an homophobic mayor with links to a European group that wants to enshrine sharia law into British law, homophobia in the council chamber and nothing is done about it, gay stickers posted everywhere, gay people being attacked – nothing new but it is on the rise on Tower Hamlets. Advancement to equality has been a long road and still a developing one but in the UK, this development seems to be going backwards in T/H and this is why I have commented on Islam and its followers view on homosexuality. Of course there is extremist views in every walk of life, but at the moment, I am more concerned with Islamic extremism particularly how this affects the very new equality rights we are enjoying. I don’t want to look back in 20 years and think this was the best time because we’re still not fully accepted in society. I couldn’t hold my boyfriends hand in public, maybe in the future but it seems like never in Tower Hamlets.

  9. Babycakes 5 Sep 2011, 6:25pm

    My response was to engage with these Muslims hotheads and argue against them. The discussions got very heated; at times even menacing and scary. There were moments when I thought I was going to be physically attacked! Goodness!

    And with that jolly hop I skipped on back to my wonderful West London abode!

    1. But they believe in this ‘god’ thing.

      It is completely impossible to argue with or reason with somone who deliberately views some badly written fairy tales as the word of some omnipotent ‘god’.

  10. Support The EDL!

    FU tatchell and you anti-gay bigot friends! lol

    1. “Support The EDL!”

      Seig Heil!

      1. So I guess Will supports the execution of gays!
        Sieg Heil!

        You fascist sympathizer. I hope you are able to select your last meal at the gallows when the Islamofasicists finally take over England and impose Sharia law in the name of tolerance…

        What a fool.

        1. Yawn.

          Same old Pepa. Same old lunatic assertions.

          Get a bloody education, will you, and do us all a favour? To be as boring AND unfunny is a travesty for any human.

        2. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 7:51am

          Strange how, when it suits them, the Americans will kiss Muslim ass and hand them trillions of dollars begged from the Communist Chinese as is evidenced in todays papers. Getting rid of Ghadaffi is having consequences heretofore unseen by the stupid spooks in the Pentagon.

    2. You’re American aren’t you?

      That explains it.

      Seeing as the Republican Party in the US (1 of the 2 main parties) are such an extreme right party that the EDL seem moderate to you.

      If I was you I’m ve more worried about how the 2 Party system in the US has completely destroyed democracy in the US.

      In the US in an election it is a choice between the Far Right (Democrats) and the Extreme Right (Republicans) where people would be better off not voting seeing as corporate interests are the main concern of the political establoishement in the US.

      1. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 4:20pm

        ….”the Far Right (Democrats)” Are you on some sort of strong medication or what?. The Democratic Party of the US is a socially Liberal center left party. Where on earth did you get the idiotic impression that they were “far right”? do some research on these things before you make such idiotic statements. Such pronouncements only serve to render your comments in general , tripe frankly.

        1. Are you kidding me although the Democratic party is more left wing than the Republicans it is still a right wing party.

  11. We need people like Peter Tatchell to go to these things and have a open dialogue with muslims. They aren’t going to go away.

    Would I have the guts, courage and determination to mingle and mix with some of the people that showed him hostility? Probably not.

    1. Thanks Peter, for your WORK and your excellent analyses of the situation in East London.

      I have often wondered why moderate Muslims do not speak out against the extremists, and what you say makes sense to me.

    2. Why only Muslims?

      Why not homophobic christians as well? Why doesn’t he have the “guts” to invade their events? Or are Muslims the only people you like and excuse their homophobia?


      1. I think your making outrageous assumptions that I’m affiliated or on side with a particular religion.

        The hypocrite here is you Pepa.

  12. willy woofter 5 Sep 2011, 6:26pm

    There is already an East London pride. Has been for the past 2 years.

  13. Can’t agree with tatchell on this one. I’m no fan of the edl, but I HATE islam. It’s a totalitarian, woman hating, gay hating, freedom hating, difference hating belief system. It hates anything that is not islam. So I hate it.

    1. finally some sense

    2. So in essence is christianity and Judaism.

  14. Paddyswurds 5 Sep 2011, 7:21pm

    Interesting to note that alot of the comments condeming Peter Tatchell are from homophobes and or far right fascist closet cases from the vile EDL. BTW who is this Matthew who has suddenly appeared on this thread? His ridoculing of Peter Tatchell about his employment status is rich coming from him, a proffessional hand out collector and sponger. Just what has he done for the GLB community lately except whinge about those who work tirelessly for GLBs and at great risk too his own life and heqalth. Peter Tatchell deserves a knighthood for his untiring work and i hope her down at the end of the Mall takesnotice when her birthday comes around again.

    1. Interesting to note that alot of the comments condeming Peter Tatchell are from homophobes and or far right fascist closet cases from the vile EDL.

      Sigh. Oy vey.. We are opposed to gay executions, inferiority of women, we are pro-democracy YET we are the fascists? Islam can only survive as a cult like-totalitarian system, but YET we are the fascists? o-k-a-y…

      His ridoculing of Peter Tatchell about his employment status is rich coming from him,

      LOL. Paddy you should know that ridiculing people on this site is the norm, I mean look at all the ridiculous childish ridiculing against me. Why didn’t you condemn that? OH THATS RIGHT! You side with Tatchell and not me. Again we see the true nature of these so-called “gay activists” (more like Islamo-activists)

      Peter Tatchell deserves a knighthood

      Now that’s hilarious! We should knight someone who now sides with an Ideology that is completely and utterly anti-woman and HOMOPHOBIC. Ulgh.

      1. Paddyswurds 5 Sep 2011, 9:18pm


  15. Paddyswurds 5 Sep 2011, 7:27pm

    Interesting to note that a lot of the comments condeming Peter Tatchell are from homophobes and or far right fascist closet cases from the vile EDL.
    BTW who is this Matthew who has suddenly appeared on this thread?
    His ridiculing of Peter Tatchell about his employment status is rich coming from a professional hand out collector and sponger. Just what has this Matthew thing done for the GLB community lately except whinge about those who work tirelessly for GLBs and at great risk to their own life and health. Peter Tatchell deserves a knighthood for his untiring work and I hope her down at the end of the Mall takes notice when her birthday comes around again. Thats slightly better…oh for an editing facility PN.

  16. Marble Eye 5 Sep 2011, 8:10pm

    Oh dear, like many socialists Peter is a bit of a dreamer. He doesn’t realise that the Muslims he spoke to are practicingTaqiyya.
    When the time comes, the truth will out, and Peter will be hanging from a rope or thrown from a cliff. Who cares? I don’t, because anyone who assists in the Islamic takeover of Europe deserves all they get.

    1. The islamic takeover of Europe.

      Some typical extreme right paranoia right there.

      These rightwing morons amuse me no end.

      There are about 20 milllion muslims in the EU. The EU has a population of about 400 million. That makes the muslim population of Europe


      I think these extreme right wing people are worried because the majoroty of Europe is now atheist.

      This criticism of the muslim takeover from Europe is very loud in the US – a former democracy whose entire political establishment is quite open in its disregard for democracy and human rights. The US governmetn exists solely to serve corporate interests.

      The USA is not a democracy in any meaningful sense.

      1. When Turkey joins the EU , That will with projected demographic growth for turkey, mean it has the largest number of meps in the european parliament. Also considering the excessive high birth rate in european muslim communities, the future islamicisation of europe is a legitimate concern and hardly paranoia. You sound like you have the typical phoney pc ,bubble wrapped delusion on this matter

        1. If you delve into Turkish history you will find out about the Kemalist revoution in 1923 which made the countries political set up entirely secular as part of the modenisatiojn process. This is still the case today. The religion may be formally Islam but recent attempts by polticians to enter the political process as Isalmists was greeted by mass demonstrations and rejection.

      2. Marble Eye 6 Sep 2011, 11:46am

        We have an ageing poulation and a low birth rate, Muslims have a young population and a very high birthrate. Add to that the massive rates of immigration, the arranging of marriages to those outside of Europe and the subsequent family entitlement to migrate. We have seen an explosion of the Muslim population in just the last decade or so and the trend will certainly continue. As has been mentioned, allowing Turkey into the EU will add another 70 million to your calculations.
        Call me paranoid if you will, but I think you misunderstand the word. I am rightly concerned, but you are overly complacent, and very short sighted.

        1. Even with Turkey in the EU (which is growing ever more unlikely seeing as how their economy is FAR outperforming EVERY EU country) and with the higher muslim birthrate, this fantasy about a ‘muslim takeover of Europe’ is utter nonsense.

          If religious belief becomes socially unacceptable (which it already is among intelligent people) then islam is no threat at alll.

          Islam is a stupid belief system for stupid people.

          All intelligent muslims are ex-muslims.

          Just as all intellient christians are ex-christians.

          1. With turkeys healthy economy more likely they will be accepted into the eu as theyu meet economic criteria . Islamic religious belief is not just socially acceptable and thus continues to grow , but increasingly radicalised, so islam is very much a real threat. To assume otherwise shows naivety on the topic.

      3. Steve,

        Before you call people idiots you need to look at a number of factors

        1. Birth rate of Muslims are much higher than any other ethnic groups esp the indigenous Europeans

        2. The proportion of immigrants who are muslims is higher than the that of general populations

        Academic projections range from 20%-25% in the next 100 years. (Search Wikipedia “Islam in Europe” for pointers)

        And finally the most serious threat is that Muslims congregate and take over cities and town. At only 5% they already dominate many parts of London. Can you imagine what Europe will look like when it becomes 25%?

    2. Isn’t that a very similar paranoia to what Anders Breivik thought was happening.

      1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 12:28pm

        Anders Breivik considered the EDL to be naive and deluded, because EDL believes in bringing about change through peaceful democratic protest. Breivik’s view was that the only way to bring about change was through terrorism.

        The gay free zone campaign is a fact. The muslim population of Britain increasing by 100% each decade is a fact. We are suffering for the 20 years of inaction by the establishment. From the days when hundreds of muslims marched through the streets saying “we will kill Salaman Rushdie”, we should have been having an open and critical discussion about the nature of islam, and how it is that they felt their behaviour was appropriate. Instead, the liberal-left invented the dogma of “mutliculturalism” to prevent any criticism.

        EDL have taken up the challenge which the liberal-left failed to do.

        1. Anders Breivik had a VERY high opinion of the EDL.

          The leader of the EDL was on Newsnight a few nights after the Norwegian massacre. His stupidity; inability to answer a direct question; his barefaced lying and his thuggish demeanour was a very bad advertisement for the EDL.

          1. Tragedies like Breivik became possible because the “Liberal Left” label everyone who does not agree with them as racists. Watch and learn

          2. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 4:58pm

            The Guardian reports what was in Breivik’s “manifesto” and what he said about EDL, which was exactly what Tommy pointed out on Newsnight. “Stephen Lennon, the leader of the EDL, told the BBC on Monday he had never met Breivik and added that he did not believe the Norwegian had attended any EDL demonstration. He also pointed out that at one point in his manifesto Breivik described the EDL as “naive fools” who believed in the democratic process.”

            Once again, I challenge you to show me where in Breivik’s manifesto he expresses admiration for EDL. Most of what he has to say is dismissive of EDL, and it his negative attitude towards peaceful democratic change that led him to mass-murder. The route he took is the opposite of the route the EDL has taken.

        2. I’ve seen your protests there anything but peaceful.

          1. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 12:37pm

            I suppose you’d say the same thing about the (mythical) drag queens who came “out of the bars and into the streets” to riot. Oooh, they were sooo violent. Your kind of pathetic homo used be known as the “tea and sympathy” brigade. When push comes to shove, you will just run away.

          2. As I said I have no problem with violent protest I’ve been on the other side fighting against you. I’m merely saying if you want a peaceful protest try not bringing weapons to your protests.

          3. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 2:13pm

            You really are incredibly stupid. Why would anyone on an EDL demo bring weapons with them, when they are surrounded by the police? Who are they going to use the weapons on? The riot police with their kevlar gloves, stab-vests and crash helmets? To get out of the last demo I had to talk my way through 3 rows of police officers.

            But nice of you to admit that as a UAF drone, you approve of violence. After being on mulitiple EDL demos, the ONLY people I approve of violence being used on is the UAF. Those left-wing hypocritical fascists are simply using muslims — as communists there is no way they can honestly support a misogynistic, anti-semitic, homophobic, anti-communist religion. The UAF deserve a good beating from homos, from EDL and from muslims. For the UAF/SWP it is all about inciting violent revolution.

            This whole saying I’m lying all the time isn’t working out that well for you is it.

            And as for me approving of violence it is sometimes necessary, I am not saying I enjoy violence.

  17. Hi Peter
    Well done for putting yourself out there, actively participating and engaging with people. I stumbled into the EDL on leaving Liverpool Street station outside a bar there and spoke with a guy holding up one end of a large St George flag denouncing sharia law in the UK. He was intelligent, articulate, and made some good points. I don’t agree with any side in particular on this whole thing, however do believe that people on both sides could show more tolerance to listen and even understand each sides point of view. No march, no matter how it is perceived by others should be banned. That is exactly what Fascism is.
    Anyway, once again, well done for doing more than just screaming at the other side and making a decent effort.

    1. Paddyswurds 5 Sep 2011, 10:56pm

      …Hear, Hear!

    2. Matthew,

      Islamists do not want to “listen” to what you have to say. When are you going to understand that?

      They are bent on taking over Europe and England and imposing homophobic and sexist Sharia, no ifs or buts about it. They will not negotiate, they will not budge… Remember the Muhammad cartoon fiasco? Yet Jesus and other deities are depicted in cartoons as well, AGAIN, I ask why do Muslims get special treatment? Why is their homophobia excused? Why do allow them to step all over the English and their historic traditions and culture? WHY WHY???WHY??? Are you Brits ashamed of your own culture? Of your country? Do you want it to be converted into another Riyadh? What’s the deal here?

      1. “They are bent on taking over Europe and England and imposing homophobic and sexist Sharia, no ifs or buts about it.”

        When one makes sweeping statements like this without any proof what’s so ever, its simply histrionic paranoia.

        Something you are adept at.

        1. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 7:55am

          ….just like the ignorant fundi xtians are taking over the US and destroying it from the inside….

      2. Pepa – you are American.

        Your country is in no position to lecture any other country about democracy seeing as the US is no longer a democracy

      3. Well surely Peter showed that to be false, as he said the muslims he spoke to when confronted on there homophobic views changed there views so blatantly did listen to him.

        1. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 10:08am

          They were surrounded by the media. Obviously the more savvy ones pulled their “extremist” brothers away.

          Now you imagine giving your boyfriend a peck on the cheek on Whitchapel high street, when there is no police, media, communists there to object to you being beaten to a pulp.

          Muslims have been able to get away with saying “kill homosexuals” for decades. The proof exists in the books sold in their mosques, the Dispatches documentaries showing what was being preached, and the explicit statements of fanatics like Anjem Choudary.

          That Tatchell got out without a good kicking, says nothing about him having been able to change the attitudes of London muslims.

  18. As a straight Muslim I have to admit Peter Tatchell has a point.
    Of course a lot of Muslims do find Homosexuality distasteful, even I did. But only education and limited engagement between gays and Muslims can address this, as Peter experienced last weekend.
    However I don’t think a gay pride event is a wise move at this stage. Much ground needs to be covered before moving to doing such an event. By doing it too hastily will be absolutely counter-productive and would most likely result in a serious set-back.
    Our united abhorrence of the EDL has created the ideal opportunity to bridge the gap between Muslims and gays, let us continue to move forward wisely in unity.

    1. I don’t like the edl, but I abhor islam more. At least the edl’s belief system is not used to justify killing gay men like islam is. And that’s just gay men, let’s not get started on women. You might not think a gay pride event is a good idea, but I’m sure the majority of gay men don’t think the homophobia that islam is responsible for in the world is a good idea. Get real, islam is never going to change. Saying that one day, islam will not be homophobic is like saying that one day there will be a gay pope. It’s a nice thought, but not a reality. Islam is homophobic, always was, always will be. Or are you going to rewrite the koran and hadith?

      1. Well saying as how the majority of christianity is now not homophobic I think its a good possibility and as you can see from this poster some of the muslim community is already coming round to being more tolerant.

        1. It’s a nice dream. But not a reality. The bible isn’t as homophobic as the koran and hadith are, you could even theologise that the homophobic sections in the bible are not even about being gay. It doesn’t state anywhere in the christian text that you should kill gay men. Whereas it does in the islamic text, and the text is certainly about gay sexuality and cannot be argued otherwise. I’m not a fan of christianity either, but it has never been used to kill gay men, whereas gay men are killed right now in the world in the name of islam. Plus the christian text is seen as infallible by christians, whereas the islamic text can in no way be infallible to muslims, never. muslims believe the koran is the word of god as dictated to their prophet. Whereas christians know the new testament are stories and letters written by men whilst being inspired by god. There is a big difference between the two religions. It’s not about muslims coming round.

          1. The Qur’an (you spelt it wrong by the way) actually doesn’t mention homosexuals with any more certainty than the bible does, it is merely mistranslated and twisted to be homophobic. As for it being infallible, Christians used to believe the same thing as Muslims they have just developed an apologist attitude much the same as Islam will.

          2. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 12:44pm

            It doesn’t matter what the koran merely says (and I’ll spell it any damn way I please, you dhimmi fool). It is how the koran is interpreted by muslims. And the dominant interpretation is that when it refers to the people of Lot it is referring to homosexuals. And the koran is obsessed with the people of Lot. Mein Kampf did not detail how to run gas chambers, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t the basis for the Holocaust. It is what is done with what appears in books, not only what appears in them. Muslims are not allowed to just interpret the koran (the way protestants were encouraged to have a personal understanding of the bible). Muslims must take their interpretation from experts, and the experts say that homosexuals are to be killed (they just disagree on the methods because the koran is a pile of contradictory crap).

          3. Hamish, thanks for your spelling advice, but koran can be spelt wither way. Qur’an, or Koran. I don’t defend christian’s I don’t like either religion. But, the new testament was written by men, it is not considered the infallible word of god by christians. Whereas apparently, the koran/qur’an was dictated to muhammed, mulsims consider it the verbatim word of god – therefore infallible. Not even the pope would say that the new testament was the verbatim word of god. It isn’t, they are letters and stories written by men about god and jesus. But it isn’t just the infallibility of the koran/qur’an which is the only problem. The hadith directly instructs muslims to kill you. Next time you defend islam, remember all the gay guys in any muslim majority country who live in the fear of being imprisoned, tortured or murdered by their government. btw, good luck with your crusade in trying to convince the governments in the islamic world that they have mistranslated their holy text.

          4. I find it very ironic that on the one hand Hamish can not wait to pour scorn on the EDL yet is very quick to defend the Hadith on its position relating to homosexuality. Go and read up about its references to homosexuality.

          5. Thats the same thing that christianity has done for 1000’s of years and I don’t see you telling them to get out of the country.

          6. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 2:19pm

            No-one’s telling muslims to get out of this country. You are simply ignorant or a liar. EDL have said over and over again, if muslims will stand up the islamo-fascists EDL will cease to exist. If muslims need support and protection standing up to them (since the fascists love to threaten to kill people) then EDL will give them that support and protection. But until muslims do this, EDL is going to carry on down the path it is taking. Hamish only cares for muslims because he is a reverse-racist — no sign of him caring for the buddhists being slaughtered in Thailand by muslims, no concern that most anti-semitic attacks in London are by muslims.

          7. Ah this classic line.

            I don’t give muslims a free pass. I would love to go to anti-fascist protests against extremist muslims however I would be surrounded by the EDL and associated with the EDL.

            Thanks for the tip about the Qu’ran/Koran thing didn’t know that.

    2. There will never be a ‘right time’ – and a pride march threatens no-one. It won’t be a setback (any more than going to the doctors for a diagnosis of an illness), but just make people realise that homophobia is a serious issue that still needs to be dealt woth, not swept under the carpet.

      How can standing up to thugs and bullies be a setback?

    3. Ahmed

      Homosexuality is legal in the UK we can live where we want and march where we want and wear what we want. If you don’t like it you know what to do

      1. Hompphobia is legal too…not an arrestable offence, unlike gay sex in a public place

        1. Dckhead

        2. So is straight sex in a public place what’s your point.

        3. That comparison has no merit, it’s quite ridiculous Matthew. Rather like you.

    4. Ahmed – as a literate and educated person, how on EARTH can you describe yourself as a muslim.

      Surely you don’t believe all those Mohammed and Jesus and Allah fairytales.

      Sorry to break this to you but they are fictional charasters.

      1. I agree I couldn’t believe in a faith but as he is not one of those homophobic xtians who use there faith as an excuse for there bigotry.

        1. @Uh Oh; Stop making a fool of yourself with your ridiculous statements that Islamic religious texts advocate killing of gays. Let me enlighten you a bit; firsty, the Quran prescribes no legal punishment for homosexuals. Secondly, perhaps you’re unaware but within Islamic jurisprudence there are a number of schools of law, by far the largest being the Hanafi school, followed primarily in the Indian Subcontinent and Turkey, and by extension in the UK (as majority of Muslims here are from the subcontinent). The Hanafi school does not prescribe any physical punishment for Homosexuals. As for your pathetic defence of Christian texts, traditionally most Islamic scholars have based their arguments for punishment for homosexuality on the Judeo-Christian rulings, that’s a fact.
          You should try reading some history books, you might be in for a shock, the Muslim world was traditionally far more tolerant towards Homosexuality than the West.

          1. It’s about what is happening now and an extremist interpretation of Islamic texts that worry’s most LGBT persons. Indeed some Islamic societies were accepting of homosexuality. As late as the 1970s Iran’s capital, Tehran even had gay bars and there is evidence of homosexuality through its history. But the last 30 years, with strict interpretation of Islam has come more doctrine measures against LGBT persons such as imprisonment and execution. These attitudes are shared with the Islamic community in the UK as a recent poll stated 100% of Muslims believe I am immoral for being born gay. That is unacceptable and needs to be challenged.

          2. @ Luke; Unfortunately in the Muslim world its not just gays or women who have no rights, the sad fact is that no person has any human rights, period. Until people get their rights to education, employment, etc very little is going to change, gay rights etc are way down the scale for most people.
            As for polls, best to avoid reading too much into them, I’m sure you’re intelligent enough to know that the source of the poll can often determine the result. Here’s an example of a more positive one;

          3. I know until people get their basic human rights like a right to education, walk the streets without being embarrassed, to employment, to free speech, I know equal rights for gay people is LONG down the road. For a gay person a threat of imprisonment or death just for being who they are is worse than having freedom of speech, from a gay man perspective, actually the decriminalisation of homosexuality takes precedence and it would do for millions of gay Muslims. They can’t speak for themselves so we should speak for them. I do remember the other poll you mentioned and of course all polls can be inaccurate but I will be honest, I am finding it very hard to believe the results of the poll you posted because where there is a large population of Muslims, i.e Tower Hamlets, LGBT persons are being persecuted. If this poll does turn out to be right and I am not sure how we prove that, then it would change my perception of Muslims view on my sexuality very quickly.

          4. Ahmed, tell that to the gay guys who have just been murdered in iran. Stop making a fool of yourself. Learn your islamic text before you call yourself a muslim.
            Qur’an (7:80-84) – “…For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds…. And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)”
            Qur’an (26:165-166) – “Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, “And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing”
            Qur’an (4:16) – “If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone”
            And the hadith.
            Abu Dawud (4462) – The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”.
            Abu Dawud (4448) – “If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.”

          5. contd…
            Bukhari (72:774) – “The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, ‘Turn them out of your houses .’ The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and ‘Umar turned out such-and-such woman.”
            al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 – [Muhammad said] “Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver.”
            Also take a look at how homosexuality is treated in some islamic countries.
            saudi – death/prison
            iran – death
            syria – prison
            UAE – death/prison
            yemen – death/prison
            afgahnistan – prison
            palestine – prison
            oman – prison
            kuwait- prison
            somalia – death/prison
            sudan – death/prison
            libya – prison
            and the list goes on, all in the name of your beloved religion islam. islam is a homophobic religion, get used to it, educate yourself, be real about your belief system. And don’t patronise a gay guy who knows what he is talking about.

        2. Meant to add onto that we should not be denying him his right to believe whatever he wants. – you can tell I was in a rush to write that :P

      2. @SteveC; Equally sorry to break this to you, but Muhammad is not a fictional character.

        1. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 9:53am

          And the foundational source for Mohammed’s life is Ibn Ishaq’s biography of him, written shortly after Mo’s death. That biography makes clear that Mo slaughtered 800 jews in one of his battles (the origin of modern day islamic anti-semitism). In fact, the entire book is broken into chapters describing battles and wars (another name for the book is “The Campaigns”). Mohammed was also a slave-monger, as documented in that biography (which is why islam is the world’s most prevalent doctrine justifying slavery, and is why muslims ran the trade in black African slaves for 1300 years – see Segal’s book “Islam’s Black Slaves”). Mohammed should be compared with Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot – he should NEVER be compared with Christ or Buddha.

        2. We all know muhammed was real. He was a pedophile (Ayisha, and having sex with a 9 year old girl is sick) that ravaged the middle east, killing the difference of various tribes and enforcing his totalitarian belief system. Allah however is a fictional character, invented by muhammed. Allah is to muhammed, what harry potter is to J K Rowling. A story. And like harry potter, not a very original story, like you said above, muhammed just ripped off the judeo christian myths.

          1. @ Luke; Often we forget the struggles made over the decades to achieve the freedoms and tolerance we take for granted today in Britain. Yet we expect other countries and communities to make the same changes overnight. As mentioned in my original post, I don’t deny the homophobic tendencies within Muslim communities; however I do think these are very superficial, they are mostly being advocated by hot headed young idiots, as seen with the Gay Free stickers fiasco.
            I don’t believe the poll I posted was far-fetched at all, I know for a fact that the Anti-war movement for example created much admiration from Muslims for many atheists and gays who marched alongside them, many Muslims were keen to reciprocate the goodwill by showing a greater level of tolerance for them. That’s why I would re-iterate my original point that the only real way of achieving real tolerance for everyone including LGBTs is through better engagement on issues we agree on. All the best.

          2. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 10:01pm

            Ahmed, well they really knew how to thank Tatchell for his efforts, huh? Tear up his placard and tell him there are no gays in Tower Hamlets. The Gallup survey would I am sure have been conducted to professional survey standards (randomisation, coverage, etc.) Yet it found ZERO TOLERANCE amongst British muslims. The problem is much less bad in that survey when it comes to French and German muslims. And it shows with the homopobic violence, homophobic preachers, hate conferences, hate literature at mosques, declaring areas to be gay free zones, sharia law zones, etc. The people who should have been safeguarding liberty in this country have been asleep at the wheel. We’re sick of hearing the soft-soap from people like Fiyaz Mughal. We are demanding action.

  19. Peter Tatchell 5 Sep 2011, 10:32pm

    To all those who wrongly damn all Muslims as homophobes, I say remember this: The Muslim scholar the late Zaki Badawi was a friend and ally of LGBT people long before most politicians and Christian leaders. The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) used to oppose gay equality and fight gay law reform alongside Christian fundamentalists like the Christian Institute. Some LGBTs wrote off the MCB as irredeemable homophobes. I did not. I challenged and protested the MCB. Now they oppose legal discrimination against LGBTs. This is positive and is proof that some anti-gay Muslims can change. Don’t we want that?

    1. EDL Supporter 5 Sep 2011, 10:39pm

      Of course not all muslims are homophobes. But the vast majority of British muslims are homophobic — as the Gallup poll showed (the Gallup poll was conducted by a muslim). And you are doing gay muslims no favours by leaving their homophobic surroundings unchallenged. There was no Gay Free Zone declared in Southall. No Gay Free Zone declared in Stamford Hill. It was in Tower Hamlets, the place with the largest muslim community in Britain. And it goes further than that. The media did not report the attack on The George and Dragon. Lutfur Rahman would not attend a public meeting to deal with the homophobia in Tower Hamlets. And he did nothing to stop the homophobic abuse in his own council chamber (something recorded by both Labour and Tories). It is time you went into retirement – islamic fundamentalism is more widespread now than when you started banging on about it 20 years ago. Human Rights does not cut it when you are dealing with communists and muslims.

    2. Stop living in fantasyland Peter.

      You are more interested in making Islamofascists look good and christians look bad, that is your agenda, why don’t you visit christians too? Why not visit the pope? Or even an anti-gay vicar and call that a success?

      You say not to brush all Muslims as homophobic. Fine. Would you then admit and pursue the same with Christians? Or is it the Muslim religion that you are more fond of?

      If gays wrote of the MCB as homophobes that is our business, such as when we write off the Vatican as homophobes too… why don’t you defend them too? Heck maybe the American Family Association might have people you can “persuade” as well…

      Why you want us to view muslim homophobia as a good thing still disturbs many of us, and for you to be joining with the homophobic UAF SCUM is also crossing the line.

      You might as well help them post those lovely “gay free zone” stickers all over Tower Hamlets… lol. Wow what a delusional freak.

      1. He did protest when the Pope came to england …. Fail!!

        And Pepa I find it a bit rich you saying Peter is fighting for the enemy when your a member of the Tea Party not exactly the best route to gay equality.

      2. Jock S. Trap 9 Sep 2011, 8:52am

        “Stop living in fantasyland Peter.”

        Do the words pot and kettle mean anything to you?

    3. well done peter – Ignore the small minority of buffoons and trolls on here, posting nonsense repetitively.

    4. Peter – I do not damn all muslims as homophobes. I damn them all as idiots.

      As I damn all christian and jews and hindus as idiots.

      Any educated person who believes in any sky-fairy is an idiot.

      They should not be engaged with.

      They should be condemned as the wilfully stupid people they are when they try to use their cult’s beliefs to pervert our democracy.

      1. Well as they make up atleast 69% of the worlds population I think you may have to.

    5. Done any propper work today Peter?

      1. Been to school yet Matthew, Maybe you could learn to spell there.

        1. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 2:21pm

          The man who doesn’t know how to use an apostrophe, criticising someone else for his spelling. You should return to the UAF – it’s where a hypocrite like you belongs.

          1. He had no decent point where as you pulled me up on a technicality which did nothing to lessen my perfectly valid point.

  20. Firstly, I hope PinkNews is going to moderate comments and stop giving the EDL a platform here. In case anyone still somehow had any doubts before this weekend, the EDL thugs attacked a gay journalist and left him with burn wounds, as well as attacking several Asian youths.

    As for Peter Tatchell: it was at the very least crass and tactically unwise (others would use stronger words) to use what should have been a day to show solidarity against a real and present danger to muddy the waters by drawing an equivalence between the EDL and Islamists. Of course Muslims who spout hatred and homophobia should be condemned just like anyone else. But “Islamists” are a bogeyman threat – an extremist fringe within a small and persecuted community. Indeed, it is groups like the EDL who often raise the spectre of Islamists. This WAS not the best time or manner to engage with extremism within the Muslim community.

    1. It was indeed a shame that there wasn’t a stronger or at least more visible LGBT presence. I know some LGBT groups advised people not to attend due to the prospect of violence from the EDL. However, for the record I attended myself with several LGBT friends in a spirit of opposition to fascism, which is as it should have been.

      As for an East End Pride: look no further:

    2. I am not an EDL supporter or have anything to do with them but you want PinkNews to stop allowing EDL supporters or members from posting here because you don’t agree with it? That is exactly why people are getting angry and fed up with people like you constantly saying who can engage and who can not engage in debate. If you disagree, engage in debate, don’t say ‘ban them’, it is exactly what pisses me and so many others off and is why I hate UAF!

    3. EDL Supporter 5 Sep 2011, 10:49pm

      Utter rubbish. The islamo-fascist Hizb ut Tahrir has been around for 25 years in Britain, and gets thousands of people at its conferences. Tower Hamlets council does nothing to keep this poison out of that Borough. And the consequence now is that there are 20 to 30 major muslim organisations in Britain who share the same islamo-fascist ideology as Hizb ut Tahrir – Where is the evidence that muslims are persecuted. I challenge you to provide it. There are racists attacks on white people that have been massively under-reported (e.g. the death of Kris Donald).

    4. Firstly, I hope PinkNews is going to moderate comments and stop giving the EDL a platform here.

      And here comes the thought police.

      I support the EDL. They are only doing what other cultures around the world do, defend their turf! The black Africans do it. You people applaud. The asians do it. You people applaud. Latin Americans do it. You people applaud. But then when the English do it, you CONDEMN. Why? Are English people second class citizens? Their views don’t count anymore? Thought you people were for equality? Let people have their equal say.

      Here in south west America many Hispanics defend their turf, and they have a right to do so. Why not the English?

      1. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 8:08am

        ….”Here in south west America” those five words says it all about pepa. Southwest America was where they fought a war to be able to keep their fellow man as slaves. They lost of course and to this day have been bitter and resentful roward the rest of the “civilised” world. Howveer they still treat the black population of that region as slaves and keep them in abject poverty. witness their racist and white supremacist attitude toward (black) President Obamas health inititives for the poor, the vast majority of whom live in the south west of the US.

      2. South West of the US – that hotbed of slavery and murderous racism?

        1. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 1:20pm

          …. huh? my slavery comment is objective and the racism a fact of life in the S. W. USA and indeed several other regions of that tragic country, home to the Tea Party.

    5. That’s very liberal – silence your opponent and pretend there is a “multicultural consensus”. Well done

  21. Peter Tatchell 5 Sep 2011, 10:38pm

    To all those who wrongly damn all Muslims as homophobes, I say remember this: The Muslim scholar the late Zaki Badawi was a friend and ally of LGBT people long before most politicians and Christian leaders. The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) used to oppose gay equality and fight gay law reform alongside Christian fundamentalists like the Christian Institute. Some LGBTs wrote off the MCB as irredeemable homophobes. I did not. I challenged and protested the MCB. Now they oppose legal discrimination against LGBTs. This is positive and is proof that some anti-gay Muslims can change. Don’t we want that? I do.

    1. EDL Supporter 5 Sep 2011, 11:02pm

      Are you really saying what I think you are saying? Do you mean they now oppose illegal discrimination, but would still like to change the law so that we can be legally discriminated against?

    2. EDL Supporter 5 Sep 2011, 11:20pm

      And the MCB is an organisation with which the government refuses to work with because of the MCB’s support for islamic extremists and terrorists such as Hamas. Mind you, maybe Peter Tatchell supports Hamas, since he wants to destroy Israel. In that context maybe the MCB doesn’t look too bad to you. If you think this battle with islam is just about gay rights, you are sorely mistaken. Muslims are massively over-represented in the prisons, they are the biggest terrorist threat in Britain, and even if that was not true, sharia law is discriminatory against women and that too should be fought. That you could bring up a modicum of support from one organisation after 15 years of campaigning against them is a sign that your approach has been an abject failure.

    3. Done any real work today Peter ?

  22. Peter Tatchell 5 Sep 2011, 10:46pm

    To the EDL supporters and defenders I say this: why should any gay person support an organisation headed by former members of the BNP, which includes supporters who express overt racism and who routinely engage in mob violence against Black, Asian and Muslim people? I have been challenging Islamist fundamentalists far longer than the EDL. Unlike the EDL, I don’t equate the general Muslim population with the extreme Islamists. The two are not the same. It is quite shameful for the EDL to suggest that all Muslims share the hatred of groups like Islam4UK and Hizb ut-Tahrir. Anti-Muslim hatred is as bad as homophobia.

    1. I’m not sure that being anti islam is as bad as islamic homophobia. Gay guys don’t murder or torture people who believe in islam. Whereas islam is used to justify the murder and torture of gay guys in the world. So for a gay guy to hate islam is a survival mechanism. I don’t like islam because it wants to kill me and take away my freedom, so islam is a threat to my way of life. Whereas islam doesn’t like gay guys because the koran says so, not because we are a threat to their way of life. Even the islamic chairwoman of the tory party is homophobic. I’m not saying there are not some muslims who are not homophobic, but the vast majority would like to see us wiped off the face of the earth. I also hate the edl, and any far right organisation, but I see islam as a right wing totalitarian belief system.

      1. and btw, if you are the Peter Tatchell. You’re a real inspiration for me. I’m not having a go at you. You do amazing work. And I fully respect you.

    2. EDL Supporter 5 Sep 2011, 11:00pm

      Are you saying that once a communist, always a communist? Are you saying once an islamic fascist, always an islamic fascist? If you actually bothered to go and observe some EDL meetings, or some EDL demos then you would not be talking from such a position of ignorance and weakness. I will engage with homophobes or islamic fundamentalists to understand them and challenge them. Why won’t you do that with EDL? You were seen to observe EDL attack Combat 18 in November 2009, but you have kept silent about your observations. EDL does not oppose all muslims — it opposes islamic extremism. Are you refusing to make that distinction or are you incapable of making it?

    3. Anti-Muslim hatred is as bad as homophobia – I agree.

      What really angers though is UAF and the leftists constantly wanting debate and protest on their own terms. I am not sure if you have called for EDL march to be banned but it is disgraceful it was. Why should it be banned? It is a free country. UAF later complained when the Home Secretary banned all marches. Why does UAF want one rule for them and another for everyone else?
      Why does UAF contain Islamists? Why does UAF contain people that support homophobia and have no respect for gay people? There are videos of UAF members chucking stone at EDL supporters.

      Why doesn’t the UAF campaign against Islamic extremism and peoples grievances about this? Why doesn’t UAF mob come to Tower Hamlets against the gay free zones, the homophobia against Labour and Conservative gay council leaders? UAF is such an hypocritical organisation Peter and one that actually could lead to people sympathising with EDL. UAF hosts violent people too.

    4. EDL Supporter 5 Sep 2011, 11:11pm

      I find it amazing that Peter Tatchell will extend charitable interpretations to muslims (despite what we know about the history of islam and the current laws of islamic states). Ok, so not all muslims share Hizb ut Tahrir’s ideology. Yet EDL has explicit policies that are diametrically opposed to the policies of Hizb ut Tahrir, yet you still lie and say Hizb ut Tahrir and EDL are the same! You have a generosity to muslims that you will not extend to the white working class. As Julie Burchill observed years ago, the white working class are the only group who people are still allowed to hate and despise. The middle class have failed to stand up to the spread of this islamic poison in our society, and the working class (black and white) are the last hope.

      1. Ian Townson 6 Sep 2011, 4:43pm

        EDL Supporter: “The working class (black and white) are the last hope”. I see you have stolen communist class politics for your own use but you didn’t quite get there. Communists would also attack nationalism (“workers of the world unite”) and support the autonomy of minority groups including religious ones. There is no equivalence between the EDL and religious fanatics. The EDL is worse. Islamist fanatics are a tiny minority within a minority and have little influence beyond their shrinking band of deluded devotees. It’s a lie to pretend otherwise. The notion that the Islamisation of Britain (sorry, England) and the introduction of sharia law is imminent is laughable. The state is not about to cave in to the dictates of religious extremists by introducing repressive legislation. The state has banned and deported Islamist groups and individuals. Contrast: EDL support for Loyalist terrorists, Israel’s oppression of Palestinians, association with the BNP (a fascist organisation).

        1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 5:05pm

          Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I do not need nor seek to invoke the stupidity of communism. The point is that when the state has refused to circumscribe the fascist activities of the islamic fundamentalists, and the middle class have gone into hiding, it is only the working class who are left to defend our society. The state has already passed the Religious Hatred Act 2006 which was specifically done to protect islam from criticism (only the House of Lords insistence on a “freedom of speech” clause, there would be far less discussion and information about islam around. The state has done the absolute minimum, because the problems we face are problems caused by them. I condemn all fascism — both the BNP and the islamo-fascists. You clearly support brown-skinned fascists.

          1. The working class hate you aswell so good luck there.

          2. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 3:57pm

            “The working class hate you aswell so good luck there.”

            When EDL coaches pull into a town or city, people line the streets applauding. Traffic stops and people get out to stand and applaud.

            You are so deluded. No wonder you need simple stories to make you less scared. No wonder you were in the UAF.

          3. Hamish mate…. I am not an EDL member or have much sympathy for them as I do believe it contains many undesirable people but if you don;t think it has much support in working class areas then you are greatly mistaken.

            UAF = mostly middle class.

            EDL – mostly working class.

          4. EDL = white working class. Clearly there is a racist element in this.

          5. UAF is full fo fascists, is there a fascist element too?

            Truth is, EDL is mostly composed of working class people and UAF is mostly composed of middle class people. What is so racist about that?

            That is not saying ALL working class people support EDL and all middle class support UAF. Not at all.

          6. I’m not saying that the EDL isn’t mainly working class however the majority of the working class hate the EDL just as much as the middle classes.

          7. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 2:25pm

            And of course Hamish can provide no evidence. Yet according to Hate Not Hope, 48% of the British public would support “a far right” party. Right-wing parties are gaining ground all over europe, and it is the fault of people like Hamish.

          8. Right wing groups are popping up all over the world because people are unhappy about the economic climate and they are looking for a scape goat as they always do.

            Except sometimes its us that are used as a scapegoat so watch out when the EDL get some real power.

          9. Hamish, you are totally wrong. The rise of the EDL/right wing groups has nothing to do with the economic climate.

            The growth of the BNP happened during the economic ‘boom’ and the rise of the EDL is due to there is a perception that Islamic extremism is tolerated and British soldiers abused by Islamic fanatics and this is ignored too yet criticism of Islam is slammed as ‘racist.

  23. Peter Tatchell 6 Sep 2011, 12:19am

    I agree that Labour and the radical left have failed working class people – white and black. I agree that UAF has failed to protest against Islamist fundamentalist homophobia. I agree there are issues wider than LGBT rights, such as the anti-Semitism and sexism of the Islamist far right. But none of this leads me to conclude that the EDL is what is claims to be. Just look at all the violent attacks its supporters have launched on Black and Asian people and the casual, routine racism of its activists, as revealed by The Guardian and Hope Not Hate. The EDL opposes the building of mosques. I am not religious but Muslims or people of any faith have a right to have places of worship. The blanket anti-Muslim rhetoric of the EDL fuels fundamentalism. It doesn’t counter it.

    1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 8:26am

      Before I ever had any involvement with the EDL, I witnessed UAF goad 1500 muslims into a riot. The muslims were running around faces masked and tooled-up. How could the newly formed EDL be blamed for that muslim violence? Are you blaming the (then non-existent) EDL for the muslim racist murder of Kris Donald or Vicente Delgaod, or the attack on Michael Payne? The death threats given to Salman Rushdie throughout the 1990s were all made by muslims. Tommy Robinson has had 2 Osman Notices (credible threats he will be murdered); Anjem Choudary has had 0 Osman Notices. And yet, you will blindly support muslims against the working-class white. You are a traitor to gay rights. You are a traitor to the working-class (thank god you no longer describe yourself as a socialist). And once again, you are a liar. Where is your EVIDENCE to compare EDL with Hizb ut Tahrir. I thought you were against prejudice, but here you are peddling prejudice and lies against the EDL. LIAR, LIAR, LIAR.

  24. Spanner1960 6 Sep 2011, 12:45am

    Years ago, there was the National Front, later the British National Party, and now the English Defence League. I am not going to draw comparisons against any of them and their value / worth or socio-political standing.

    What I would like to know though, is if one does want to fight Islamic hatred, who should you support? It seems anybody that sticks their head above the parapet to complain usually gets pot shots taken at them by all and sundry and you get accused of everything from racism to being slightly right of Adolf Hitler.

    From what I have read, the EDL has it’s roots in good conventional politics, if rather right-wing, but it has been hijacked by the usual skinhead redneck thugs and nobody with any sense wants anything to do with them – but what is the alternative?

    Is there no group out there willing to stand up to these Islamic nutcases without having to resort to shouts of “Seig Heil”?

    1. In Scotland, all this multicultural balderdash was quickly nipped in the bud by the Scots fierce independant streak.

      Simply put.

      If imigrants wanted to live there they had to adhere to the way off life or get their lights punched out.

      None of this wishy washy think tank induced drivel that happened in England.

      I now live in Wales, however the whole South Wales economy is cow towing to the Global market perspective whereby everything is up for grabs.

      I cannot blame the EDL at all.

      Immigration is all about cheap labour for the rich and screw the rest.

      EDL is no different from anyone else without power or money in what they can do to attempt preservation of that to which they know and desire.

      For Tatchell to simplistically label these people as bigots is disgraceful.

      1. Fak off

        Racist murders and possible racist murders
        By IRR News Team
        27 January 2011, 5:00pm
        In the last six months, a number of cases have been before the courts following attacks which appear to have been racially motivated.

        From top to bottom: Nachhattar Singh Bola, Simon San and Papa Mbaye Mody.

        Three of the four deaths detailed below took place in Scotland and one of these was on a takeaway worker, a profession at high risk of racially motivated attacks, identified in the IRR’s briefing paper Racial violence: the buried issue.

        Just last week, the young assailants of Nachhattar Singh Bola were all given life terms for the unprovoked attack. Indian man Nachhattar Bola (26) who was visiting friends in Renfrewshire, Scotland for a few months, was attacked on 2 July 2010. He was chased and then attacked by youths as he walked down Thompson Street in Renfrew. The group kicked and beat him, knocking him unconscious, stamping on his head and body. He was taken to the Royal Alexandra

        1. In December 2010, three young people were sentenced for their parts in the death of Simon San on 11 August 2010 in Edinburgh. Forty-year-old Simon San was originally from Vietnam and worked as a delivery driver for the family takeaway, Yong Hua Garden, on Lochend Road, Edinburgh. The attack took place as Simon returned from a delivery. A group of young people surrounded his car with him still inside and began to rock the vehicle. San made an emergency call while still in the car. When he managed to get out, he was forced back and punched once in the face – he fell directly backwards, hitting his head on the pavement. He died the following day from a fractured skull and internal bleeding. In September 2010, John Reid, 16, pleaded guilty to culpable homicide and was later sentenced to five years’ detention. His solicitor said Reid maintained there was never any racial element to the attack. In December, two more 16-year-olds, Michael Roberts and Keir Rodger, were sentenced to 42 months a

          1. Dr Robin Guthrie 6 Sep 2011, 9:46am

            No I will not FAK off.

            You FAK off.

          2. Who the fak are you?

        2. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 12:37pm

          And what about the racist muslim murder of Kris Donald?

          And the racist muslim murder of Ross Parker?

          Or the racist muslim murder of Vicente Delgado?

          Or the racist muslim attack on John Payne?

          Or the homophobic muslim attack on Oliver Hemsley?

          Everyone condemns the killings of people like Stephen Lawrence. But when the perpetrators are not white and the victims are white, then the media let it slide.

          The liberal-left in Britain just love to maintain that only the white working class can ever be racist or violent or homophobic.

          There should be zero tolerance for violence or incitement to violence. But we should have no taboo subjects.

          1. so you only care if the victim is white.

            Finally some truth from you

          2. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 5:07pm

            6 of my family are black. You can only deal in strawmen argumentation.

  25. I think Peter Tatchell should be aware of the type of people he standing side by side and mixing with in the so called ‘anti-fascist’ movement.

    This was their work in London at the weekend. Supposedly educated people justifying and laughing at the unprovoked, brutal, mob attack of a lone woman. These are people with deeply twisted views.and a danger to freedom in our society.


      This video shows peaceful loving fascist unite against fascism ‘protesters’ having a laugh at an EDL women being abused by UAF thugs and speaking about her in a disgusting manner. UAF = SCUM!

      1. Cnuts

  26. Peter Tatchell 6 Sep 2011, 1:24am

    Yes, Hannah, that kind of “anti-fascist” thuggery is totally unacceptable. It defies the humanitarian spirit that is supposed to guide progressive politics, and it discredits the true anti-fascist cause.

    1. UAF is not a true anti-fascist cause and your association with them is pretty disgusting. You’re associated with those chucking bricks at the coach with EDL supporters in it. It is violence and fascism as it is stopping people from debating and marching and having a say. If you want to stop people from having a say then go to a country that wants to close debate like Iran. If you have grievances about EDL then fine but challenge them more appropriately than wanting to ban them. Sorry but UAF really angers me because it is extremely hypocritical. They scream when anyone criticises Islam, a choice based belief but close their eyes to the growing homophobia in T/H at people born gay. I urge you to reassess your support for UAF because your reputation will go down if you can’t disassociate yourself from this extremist group. Why is it that at most EDL marches it is UAF being the most violence and end up receiving more arrests? UAF – violent, fascist and against LGBT persons.

  27. radical53 6 Sep 2011, 3:14am

    It all comes down to ‘FREE SPEECH.”

    The rights of Free Speech have been so eroded by the Extremists and Fundamentalists that it is impossible to ignore.

    Reading the paper this morning talking about this in regards to the cartoons published in Denmark a few years ago and the backlash it is still having on society.

    You cannot criticise Islam or muslims what so ever. and they certainly don’t take criticism of their religion. It is avery intolerant religion.

    So whether Peter is right or wrong. The truth will prevail.

  28. there is a lot of homophobic bigotry going on in the replies to posts section.

    There are three gay people on this public site, and we are having a constant battle against their bigotries

    So they are doing this on this site. so give them a taste of their own medicine on this nasty, racist and homophobic site

  29. We need more people like Peter out there who are willing to actually engage in debate with Muslim homophobes rather than dismissing Islam as a whole as homophobic – given that in a presumably brief argument on the street he was able to convince several previously hostile individuals that homophobia is wrong surely proves that it’s not as deeply entrenched in the religion as many on here seem to think.

    Outside of a fascist w*nk fantasy Islam isn’t going anywhere anytime soon so we might as well try to coexist, and Peter has shown it *is* possible. The EDL supporters here are simply exacerbating the problem for their own political ends by trying to pit gays and Muslims as irreconcilable enemies and they should be opposed as much as the homophobes themselves.

    1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 8:34am

      “Outside of a fascist w*nk fantasy Islam isn’t going anywhere anytime soon so we might as well try to coexist”

      In the last 20 years, almost all the gay bars in east London have closed (from Aldwych to Walthamstow), whilst bars have prospered in the centre and in south-west London. Islam is going nowhere but expanding (the number of muslims in Britain goes up by 100% every 10 years) and declaring areas “Gay Free Zones”. It appears even Tatchell does not live in east London, despite his love for islam and his claims that most muslims are not homophobic. What a hypocrite.

  30. Utterly deluded.

    Tatchell has always allowed his own personal lust to compromise the safety of the gay community. I hate him and everything he doesn’t stand for.

    1. He doesn’t have any personal lust.
      He stands up for what is right, he stands up for all human rights issues!
      It is about time the gay youth start to listen again…Because without people like Peter, we wouldn’t have the rights that some take for granted now.

  31. Yup. Go to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Sudan, Nigeria, Mauritania, and start screaming “gays and muslims unite”. That will go well for ya. I’m amazed as to how idiotic some people are. And if they woulnd’t drag others with them it would be peachy, but they do.

  32. Kerry Hollowell 6 Sep 2011, 8:45am

    for all you that condem Peter Tatchell, you obviously have no real idea what he has done to progress true equality and bring attention to human rights violations. You need to read his article again slowly and carefully and you will see he is 100% right in his strategy and the right way to address these issues.

  33. Dear old Peter is hopelessly naive if he thinks there is going to be some sort of Muslim-gay coalition against hatred. The overtly hostile response to his placard should have told him this is all a long long way off when you can count the number of openly gay Muslims on one hand and when a recent poll showed ZERO percent of British Muslims thought gay relationships could be morally right.

    Similarly, he asks why gay people didn’t identify themselves as such on this march when he’s answered his own question a few paragraphs before – the mere word “gay” was enough to send some people into paroxysms of hate and to bring him close to (another) beating.

    Peter is an admirable man in many ways. He’s not afraid to walk the walk AND talk the talk. However, his recent obsession with the Vicar of Rome and his naive belief that somewhere there is a groundswell of liberal Muslim opinion just waiting to be tapped makes me concerned his head injury has affected him more than is immediately obvious.

    1. Does that make the EDL ok to support?

      1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 12:43pm

        EDL does not care if they have the support of gay people or not. EDL are drawn from the biggest social group in this country, and the EDL have social and family conections across the land – why would they care if the 1% who are gay get on board? The media consistently want to ignore any minority groups on EDL demos, because acknowledging the presence of such minorities means that the media cannot build the EDL into a scary monster. Personally, the fearsome reputation of the EDL has saved me from violence from left-wing thugs – as soon as I threatened them in language they would expect from “an EDL thug”, the gang of lefties let go of me.

        1. Sounds like you’re angry with everyone

          1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 5:08pm

            I’m not angry at all. I’m delighted with the progress the EDL is making. The only thing that makes me angry is that muslims are not treated to the same laws as the rest of us.

        2. 1% that are gay? Thats an odd statistic due to the fact that we could make up up to 12% of the population of the UK.

          1. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 3:54pm

            You are just too thick to be true. The 10% “statistic” came from Kinsey studies, where he claimed that up to 10% had fantasies about same-sex relations. That does not make them gay, not even bisexual. If 12% of the population were queer, then at least 1 in 10 pubs in the country would be gay. Instead it’s not even 1 in 100 pubs that are gay.

          2. Thats a stupid way of working out the gay population, and that is not just the Kinsey Studies quite a few studies have taken place all bringing out a range of results but all at about 7-15%.

  34. The EDL are racist scum

    But Peter Tatchell is a complete idiot if he thinks aligning himself with muslim cultists is going to do ANYTHING for LGBT rights.

    These ‘moderate’ muslims – unless they loudly and vehemently condemn muslim homophobia are part of the problem – not the solution.

    Religious people are wilfully stupid. Any alliance with any religious group is foolish in the extreme considering that ALL religions survive because of the hatred and division they instil in their members.

    Religion is a vicious cancer with absolutely nothing to value to contribute to society.

    That’s a message I can suppoty.

    1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 12:52pm

      There are pictures over in the albums of the EDL LGBT Division on Facebook that show many non-white people on EDL demos. Surely if they were racist scum there would be plenty of photographic and video evidence of such non-white people being attacked. There are hundreds of photographers at every EDL demo, yet not one photo of non-white people being attacked or abused. Tatchell admits to getting more abuse from muslims and socialists at Tower Hamlets than any enemy of EDL has got from within an EDL demo. Sunny Hundal of Liberal Conspiracy is an enemy of EDL, yet went along to the Luton demo in Feb, and publicly admitted he was shocked and surprised that no-one even paid him even a glance (he’s not white). Here is a link to the google cached copy as the LibCon site is offline:

      It would appear you are the racist scum.

      1. Yes but every time an EDL member is interviewed on TV some incoherent thug like the EDL leader (who appeared on Newsnight) is wheeled out.

        Surely that slurring thug was not the best representative you have?

        1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 5:10pm

          Tommy is an ordinary man in extraordinary times. As far as I know, he’s had no media training, and was not groomed for PR work the way the middle class political elite are. I’d like to see you cope with Paxman.

      2. Actually there have been many complaints from the Sikh members of your organisation, about being attacked while out on demo’s. Seems its not the religion you’ve got a problem with but the colour of there skin.

        1. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 3:51pm

          And yet the Gay Division has photos showing a variety of non-white people at demos. Some of them are at repeated demos. Why would they be there if there was the fantasy problem you are describing? You are simply a liar. Provide some evidence. Or else shut up with your lying.

  35. Muslims are, overall, EXTREMELY HOMOPHOBIC.

    And Peter Tatchell’s denial of this and his softly softly approach towards Muslim homophobia is disgusting. Shame on you, Mr Tatchell.

    1. So are some people who live in council flats. You kiss your same sex partner in most uk hight streets at the weekend and you probablly get attacked

      1. Did I say that all non-Muslims are neutral or pro-gay? No, I didn’t think so.

        The point, however, is that most Muslims are particularly homophobic as a group.

        Gallup 2009:
        Is homosexuality morally acceptable?
        General British population: 58%
        British Muslims: 0%

        The evidence is just there.

        1. I’m confused what the soloution?

          1. Well, we are certainly not going to solve the problem by denying that it exists or denying the extent of the problem. Most Muslims, almost all of them, are vicisiously bigoted against, among others, gay people. Let’s just accept this for now. It’s not ‘a small minority’, it’s not just ‘the extremists’. It’s almost all of them.

            Secondly, the solution is exposing the stpid and hateful views held by most Muslims, just like we laugh at, expose, the BNP and et cetera.

          2. Okthat sounds like fun lets laugh at the edl too

  36. As I have said before, just because both Muslims and gays are minorities, it does not make us allies. That’s not how it works. Many on the Left think all minorities are friends and blah blah blah but the vast majority of Muslims, almost all of them, viciously hate us. Look what happens to gay people in Muslim-majority countries. It’s HORRIFYING!

    1. I agree

  37. @j2a

    “Islam isn’t going anywhere anytime soon so we might as well try to coexist”

    We can’t coexist. Most Muslims don’t want to coexist. LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS TO GAY PEOPLE IN MUSLIM-MAJORITY COUNTRIES!!!!!

    Homosexuality is illegal in almost all of them. In about 10 of them, it’s punishable by DEATH! a=ACCORDING TO A 2009 gALLUP POLL, 0% of British Muslims thought that homosexuality was morally acceptable. ZERO PERCENT!!! These people are worse than the evangelical nut jobs in the US.

  38. My concern is that Mr Thatchell is starting to lose sight of the bigger problem in favour of trying to unite two very different camps.

    The bigger problem is the percived threat of Islam. People are frightened – these posters are merely an indication of something that goes much deeper within that particular society.

    The EDL have risen as a result. I personally don’t think it’s full of right-wing thugs – I think many are ignorant but they’re frightened and they certainly have no concept of ideologies or political theories. Your average bloke who left the local school at fifteen, got a girl pregnant and ended up with two kids in a council flat probably doesn’t have an indication of much political. All he sees is the propaganda about Muslim men and women ‘taking over’ the UK and buys into it…sadly.

    I also believe that Mr Thatchell needs to arrive out of his current mindset which seems to infer that because both camps are downtrodden minorities that they will make..cont

    1. Good points here.

  39. Thankyou Mr Tatchell for engaging in dialogue. This is the only way to make progress.

    1. Yes that worked at stonewall you pussy

      1. Paddyswurds 6 Sep 2011, 1:23pm

        ..a very intelligent and thoughtful comment, Jimmy.

        1. fak off

        2. Paddy, Jimmy is not his name and might be considered offensive if he wanted to be called Jimmy he would have put it as his name.

  40. Here’s the thing – we’re talking about PEOPLE here. Living, breathing homo sapiens people with exactly the same capacities and abilities and rights as the rest of us. They may believe some funny things. They may believe some dangerous or objectively unhelpful things. They may have brown skin and beards and speak foreign languages. But they’re still people.

    And people’s minds are malleable. Their thoughts and ideas and cultures and allegiances are protean and adaptable. It’s how we evolved. Adaptability has always been the key to our survival and prosperity. So a lot of people who identify with muslim faiths are currently homophobic and misogynistic and horribly right wing? That can be changed. 100-200 years ago virtually everybody in Britain was all these things by our standards. But things changed. The culture changed. Black immigrants from the 40s and 50s brought homophobic ideals with them, but homophobia in black culture is being challenged and eroded just as racism was.

    1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 5:16pm

      Correct. But for 20 to 30 years no-one has dared to challenge islam. The recent 3 hour programme about Mohammed was a good start — it did at least raise the facts about Mohammed being a mass-murderer of jews, and that his favourite wife was only 9 years old when he had sex with her. Only 5 years ago Newsnight was rubbishing academic reports about hate literature being sold in UK mosques, and the West Midlands Police were prosecuting Channel 4 for making a truthful documentary showing muslim preachers saying gay people should be killed. Things can change. None of this is about deporting muslims. But we do need to start making sure they here what is wrong and shameful about their religion and their history. Just as the transatlantic slave trade is taught in schools, so should the 1300 years of islamic slaving, and the muslim genocide in India (which greatly outranks the Holocaust). Education is the way forward.

    2. Good. The first step of change is to recognise and challenge unacceptable behaviour. The softly softly approach of gays-and-muslims-unite a la Tatchell is dodging the issue. Calling EDL racist is illiberal as it shuts down debates (and stupid too since Islam is a religion not a race!)

      1. And I’m not homophobic because I’m not scared of gays.

        It’s all a technicality you can still be racist.

  41. Sure, we have mountains to climb before some muslim groups will engage in productive dialogue. But climbing mountains is what we do, difficult is not a synonym for impossible. And there ARE thousands of decent, honest, compassionate people out there who identify as muslims, because whatever else they are they are people, Most of them just want to live happy, contented lives, enjoy the company of friends, look after their families and get on with things. They’re not monstrous ogres, they’re people, but if we treat them as ogres then what reason will they have for not behaving as such?

    We need to stop thinking of “muslims” as simply ciphers for a grand inhuman overmind. That’s what the hardline clerics want. We need to circumvent this crude attempt at enforcing a group identity and treat them simply as people. “Islam” must be irrelevant. The way forward is to connect with each other, as human beings, and impress upon each other how very similar we all are at bottom.

    1. Spanner1960 6 Sep 2011, 2:34pm

      That’s all well and good to say, but the moderates never say a word. They never stand up. They never chastise the extremist views in their communities that tar them with the same brush.

      Until these people start looking around themselves instead of doing what their religious leaders tell them to do, then it is going to be a fight. I can tell you know, it’s going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. British tolerance to immigrants and their unacceptable attitudes is wearing paper thin.

      1. Today in the metro in the mail section there was a mass of emails came in to speak up against Anjem Choudrays threat for 9/11. These where mainly from fellow muslims saying extremists like Choudray are not representative of the Muslim Population.

        1. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 3:30pm

          That is great news. I hope that muslims (and others) go and have a protest against Anjem Choudary and his glorification of the deaths of 3000 innocent people on 9/11. This is exactly what EDL wants to see.

          1. You are fools to take any notice of the likes of Anjem Choudhury.. His influence is minimal and like you he delibertely wants to start a culture war. Islam against the crusaders. He and his like welcome opposition and condemnation. It gives them their kudos among other Islamist groups as worthy war jihadists.

  42. because a mind will have millions of other things in it besides some form of islam – islam is just one set of ideas, and like all ideas it is shaped and influenced and altered by the other ideas with which it coexists. There are as many islams as there are muslims, and they can change. Tolerance can be a part of them. Equality can be a part of them. Heck, there can even be atheistic islam, where it’s just seen as cultural inheritance, moralising stories and aesthetic preferences. This will happen naturally, as people integrate into liberal, tolerant societies and come to realise the value of tolerance and equality. It’s happening now, especially with the younger generations.

    What will retard and hinder this process, though, is getting together in screaming mobs and hurling dangerous right-wing rhetoric (as well as not a few broken bottles) in the general direction of anyone who claims a fondness for some form of islam. The methods of people like the EDL simply do not help one bit.

    1. EDL Supporter 6 Sep 2011, 5:18pm

      Since Tatchell began his campaigns against islamo-fascism back in the 1990s, things have gone from bad to worse. Which is why I put my energy into supporting EDL rather than supporting Tatchell. You cannot appeal to “universal human rights” when all 56 islamic countries in the world have rejected that and said “human rights are subordinate to sharia law”.

      1. EDL supporter: that’s why we need the kind of revolutions we have seen recently in Egypt and Tunisia opening up the possibility of democratic, secular systems. Innit?

        1. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 2:39pm

          Are you crazy? The Muslim Brotherhood will take over Egypt. They are as bad as the Taliban. The Brotherhood took their inspiration from the N*zis — they were carrying out pogroms against Jews in Palestine before WW2 even began. Tunisia is already seeing a rise in islamic fundamentalism. The dictatorial regimes that were there before were awful, but don’t fool yourself that what is coming is going to be any better. Has no-one learned from the Iranian Revolution? That gay Leftard Michel Foucault went of to Tehran to congratulate them. And would anybody in their right mind choose to live there now?

          1. For once I actually agree with you, the revolutions are a start but at the moment they look like they are not enough to truly free the people.

            If they don’t get hijacked by extremist parties then america will just put another dictator in place.

          2. Hamish, I hardly think the US will post a dictator there if it all goes horribly wrong. The Arab spring has been an internal ‘revolution’ and it will remain like way.

            I agree with EDL Supporter here about the consequences of these ‘liberations’….. We have Iran and Iraq as examples. Iraq is hardly a beacon of hope, freedom etc. Homosexuals for example are more persecuted today then it was under Saddam. In 1970s Iran, homosexuality was tolerated even in the Iranian dynasty. There were some gay bath houses and a few gay bars too but that was all destroyed after 1979 when a hard-line Islamic approach was taken. The Iranian revolution was all about liberating the people from the Shah dictatorship but you know, the Shah regime was actually better in many ways, for women, gay people, education. After 1979, the mullahs promised Iran freedom, democracy, indeed there are elections too. Iran is now a threat to the world and they support these ‘liberations’. I wonder why?!

  43. There’s no debating with these people, their religion tells them to kill us and they do.

    1. Peter Tatchell 6 Sep 2011, 7:40pm

      British Muslims did not hang these young men. And where were you when we campaigned against these executions?

    2. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 2:45pm

      Tatchell, your campaigns have been so diffuse and based on the wrong premise. They have been pointless. Iran is still killing homos, and only gay people and the EDL supporters are aware of it. You think that “human rights” is an effective lever, but it isn’t when ALL the muslim countries reject universal human rights and subordinate human rights to sharia. Even if the UN Declaration was amended to explicitly protect gay people, it would not matter one bit. The islamic countries would still claim the Cairo Declaration takes precedence. There are more islamic hate conferences in the UK now than when you started down this path 20 years ago. Your tactics are an abject failure.

      And British muslims DO have responsibility for these things. I know Iranian muslims who live here, and who claim that it is not true that Iran executes people for being gay. I know other Iranian muslims who live here who deny that Mohammed was a paedophile.

  44. Well done Peter!
    Some days i just think we should bait these two against each other, have the muslim far-right and the EDL just kill and wipe each other out.
    2 diseased birds with one brick.

    1. Tigra 07: Exactly. They both want to start a culture war for their own dubious purposes.

  45. Peter Tatchell 1- 0 EDL

      1. Thats not that big to be honest there’s been plenty of protests alot bigger which have been considered a loss

        1. EDL Supporter 8 Sep 2011, 2:34pm

          The difference is that everyone tried to stop the EDL demo from happening. The democratically-elected mayor of Tower Hamlets threatened to use tax-payers money to sue the Home Secretary and the Police, so he got his way and democratic rights were diminished. The RMT threatened illegal action to close Liverpool St. train station, and that did not stop EDL. The UAF threatened all the EDL pubs in Kings X with vandalism, and that did not stop the demo. The police snatch squad tried to grab Tommy, and found out that EDL are not the bearded pussies of the UAF who can only gang up on individuals. 3000 police could not stop 1000 EDL from taking Tommy back. Tommy is in prison now, but only because he went voluntarily to a police station.

          Tatchell got roundly attacked for his hypocritical stance, by the very people he wants to unconditionally support. Now he’s off to the media spreading his lies about the EDL. EDL and HuT are diamtrically opposed.

  46. Peter Tatchell 6 Sep 2011, 6:47pm

    I’ve been campaigning against Islamist right-wingers and fundamentalists long before the EDL. Lectures from these johnny-come-lately EDL fanatics cut no ice. Scroll down here (and this does not include all my campaigns before I began my website in 1997):
    Reading the posts on this thread, time and time again EDL supporters equate fundamentalist fanatics with Muslims in general. The two are very different. To equate them, like the EDL does, is irresponsible and immoral. Most Muslims in Britain are not persecuting LGBT people. Nor do they have any intention of doing so. When the EDL supporters on this thread make these absurd claims they expose the EDL’s true hate agenda.

    1. Well said Peter

    2. “Most Muslims in Britain are not persecuting LGBT people”… so if 100% of Muslims think I am immoral, what is going to happen in the future? The Muslim population is gaining strength, nothing wrong with that but if they all or a significant majority of them think I am immoral, they will want changes to society and that is what were seeing in Tower Hamlets with all the backward things happening there.

    3. To equate a small minority of EDL supporters who are violent with the whole EDL is irresponsible and immoral too. So why do you do it?

      1. Because its not a small minority it is an organisation made up originally of football hooligans.

        1. Hamish, your ex organisation composes of many hooligans and thugs too doesn’t it? They often receive a lot more arrests than the EDL and many videos of them on Youtube, one in particular that makes me angry is of two middle class man boasting about a women being physically and verbally abused by UAF. Vile and disgusting organisation.

          1. True the UAF are anything but saintly hence I left.

  47. Dear Peter Tatchell,

    You do not represent me or any other LGBT person. You are irrelevant, a joke that isn’t funny any more. I fervently hope that the muslim scum you defend kill you.

    1. Peter Tatchell 6 Sep 2011, 7:42pm

      The post above is the true violent reality of many EDL supporters. They endorse murder. Just like the extreme Islamists!

      1. According to a 2010 study by Pew Research Council, the MAJORITY of Muslims in Egypt, Pakistan, Nigeria and Jordan think those who leave Islam should be KILLED.

        Clearly, violent extremism isn’t confined to a small minority of Muslims. It’s the norm.

        1. Peter Tatchell 6 Sep 2011, 8:03pm

          Yes, I condemn those attitudes and campaign against them. If you care, why don’t you join secular campaigns to oppose such views? Have you been at the One Law for All events? More importantly, most BRITISH Muslims do not believe in killing those who leave Islam. The way the EDL conflates Muslims in Nigeria with those in the UK is ignorant and dishonest.

          1. I am a member of the National Secular Security and I donate to them on a monthly basis. What is more, I will be attending the Secular Europe March later this month.

            British Muslims may not be as extreme as Muslims in, for example, Nigeria, but the evidence clearly shows that British Muslims are extremely out of tune with mainstream British views on things like homosexuality, sex before marriage and et cetera.

  48. Peter Tatchell 6 Sep 2011, 7:58pm

    FACT: The Qur’an is less homophobic than the Bible. Unlike Leviticus, it doesn’t advocate killing gay people – or punishing them in any way.

    1. “FACT: The Qur’an is less homophobic than the Bible. Unlike Leviticus, it doesn’t advocate killing gay people – or punishing them in any way.”

      Firstly, the Quran is not the only source of scripture in Islam. What about Islamic Law and jurisprudence?

      Secondly, most Christians do not interpret the Bible literally. In the Muslim world, however, literalism has an almost absolute authority.

      Thirdly, two wrongs do not make a right. That the Bible is allegedly more homophobic than the Quran doesn’t excuse the Quran. That’s like saying, ‘don’t criticise Russia’s human rights record because China’s is worse.’

      1. I agree SamB.
        Moreover, no to Religious Fundamentalism of any kind, this is 21st century secular Britain.
        I refrain from offering respect to the literalist absurdity of any religious system. Respect is something you earn; most religions with their emphasis on self-referential (circular thinking) do not warrant

        1. I agree SamB.
          No to Religious Fundamentalism of any kind, this is 21st century secular Britain.
          I refrain from offering respect to the literalist absurdity of any religious system. Respect is something you earn; most religions with their emphasis on self-referential (circular thinking) do not warrant it.

    2. You really are defending the indefensibly aren’t you? Internationally, most Christian countries are more advanced when it comes to LGBT rights than Muslim countries. Almost all Muslim countries except a select few advocate either death or harsh punishment for LGBT people, just for being who they are. Indeed there are many Christian countries, particularly in Africa that have extreme laws for LGBT persons too but the majority of Christian countries don’t have homosexuality as a criminal offence. The first thing that needs to happen before LGBT rights can be advanced is a repeal of the penal code to remove homosexuality as a crime, homosexuality is a crime in almost all Islamic countries and a a minority number of Christian countries. So who is less homophobic? You state the Qur’an is less homophobic yet when you look at the world around us, it is in fact Islam that is more homophobic towards LGBT persons than Christianity in many respects.

      1. Luke: Most countries in the West progressed on LGBT rights despite opposition from, among other groups, Christians. Vast political changes came about through reforms and revolutions pushing freedom and democracy forward. It is these political changes that brought about more liberal, tolerant societies. Instead of ranting on about the Qur’an and Islam we should be encouraging the revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia etc to bring about a secular, democratic system which will encourage other countries to do likewise and still protects religious freedoms.

    3. from the qur’an.
      Qur’an (7:80-84) – “…For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds…. And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)”
      Qur’an (26:165-166) – “Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, “And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing”
      Qur’an (4:16) – “If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone”
      And the hadith.
      Abu Dawud (4462) – The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”.
      Abu Dawud (4448) – “If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.”

      1. contd…
        Bukhari (72:774) – “The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, ‘Turn them out of your houses .’ The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and ‘Umar turned out such-and-such woman.”
        al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 – [Muhammad said] “Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver.”
        Also take a look at how homosexuality is treated in some islamic countries.
        saudi – death/prison
        iran – death
        syria – prison
        UAE – death/prison
        yemen – death/prison
        afgahnistan – prison
        palestine – prison
        oman – prison
        kuwait- prison
        somalia – death/prison
        sudan – death/prison
        libya – prison
        And this list goes on. All in the name of islam.

        1. You can continue quoting till the cows come home, it makes no difference to the facts. You clearly have no idea of how Islamic jurisprudence works.

          I’ve already mentioned above that the largest Islamic school of law, the Hanafi has no prescribed physical punishment for gays.

          Do you really believe they don’t know about the texts your quoting?

          There’re specific reasons why they’re disregarding them all, try doing a bit of research.

          Finally, this is why it takes 8 years of studying to become an Islamic scholar, there’s a little more involved in it than just a childish cut n paste job.

          1. You clearly have no idea how the islamic world actually treats gay guys.The facts are that 99 per cent of countries that are majority islam either imprison, torture or execute gay guys. Perhaps you could explain that? Are you going to convince any of the islamic countries that treat gay guys in this way to not do that. No, you’re not. You’re just going to bury your head in the sand and pretend your religion is not homophobic, and try and convice gay guys on here that islam loves them, when the fact is that throughout the world, in the countries I listed above, above they either imprison, torture or execute gay gays. Just read up on it Ahmed. I know it’s not a nice thing to learn that your religion is actually full of hate, but unfortunately, your religion is. You believe in a religion that is homophobic (as well as other hateful things), you can either accept that, or live in a fantasy world, which you clearly do, and pretend that it isn’t. I suggest you do a bit of research.

  49. “Most Muslims in Britain are not persecuting LGBT people.”

    Because they can’t! They do not have the numbers yet to persecute gay people. When Muslims are a powerful political force, however, they will persecute us. We know this because we can just look at how gay people are treated in countries where Muslims are a majority. And, if you couple this with the fact that, according to a 2009 Gallup poll, 0% of British Muslims said they regard homosexuality to be morally acceptable, the evidence is indisputable.

    1. The persecution of LGBT persons is slowly happening and is pretty clear in Tower Hamlets… gay free zones, homophobia in the council chamber, a mayor linked to an extremist Islamist European group that advocates sharia law for the UK = homosexuality a criminal offence with death as punishment.

      The poll of Muslim attitudes towards homosexuality demonstrates what is to come.

      1. This kind of paranoid nonsense is the sort of prejudice heard in previous eras against minority groups after relentless propaganda against them e.g. ‘There is an international conspiracy of Jewish bolshevik financiers to take over the world.’ ‘poison our culture’ etc. etc. This applies to different people at different times usually during a political and economic crisis when all kinds of fear and uncertainty about the future exists. It’s called scapegoating. I am sure the tiny minority of loud-mouthed Islamist fanatics and the stupid stunts they pull are a great embarassment to the vast majority of muslims and their influence is next to nil.

  50. Peter Tatchell 6 Sep 2011, 8:10pm

    The hate-filled, bigoted comments left here by EDL supporters has confirmed everyone’s worst fears: many of them are violent thugs. Witness the way RSwipe says on this thread one hour ago that I should be KILLED.

    1. Someone on a form saying you should be killed is a disgusting thing to say and very cowardice. Report it.

      But, how do you know they are from the EDL? I find it ironic on the one had you’re saying we shouldn’t think most Muslims are homophobic but on the other hand saying all EDL members are violent scum bags. What about your friends at the UAF? If you go near the top of this thread I post a Youtube link that shows middle class UAF violent extremists speaking disgustingly about a women getting violently attacked by your chums, the UAF. There is also a video posted by someone else featuring the fascist UAF attacking a coach full of EDL supporters. You may dislike what EDL stands for and you have every right to challenge them but in more appropriate ways. Your group UAF are just as, if not more violent than EDL. They normally receive more arrests too.

    2. I must admit people, while I do admire what you have done, i do not think i agree with you here. I agree with you when you say it is wrong to judge all muslims in one way or another, i am sure they are as diverse a group of individuals as any other.
      But I will not join anti EDL protests, simply because No LGBT group or organisation has ever acted to suppress or deny rights to british muslims, whereas organisations that represent British muslims (i.e. Muslim council of Britain) have. So in my eyes, until the large groups claiming too represent British muslims, come out against homophobia; which would involve supporting; full decriminalisation, ending of all intimidation, and legislation against discrimination, I will not support them in there struggle against bigots.

      I do feel bad saying this, as im sure many british muslims get treated horribly due to actions of there co-religionists for which they are not responsible for. But the fact remains, the onus is on there groups, not ours.

  51. Oh dear young man you are sadly confused and really bordering on stupid. NO MUSLIM can accept a gay person, whether they are moderate or not. I wish most heartily that those who wish to comment on Islam and support this religion would MAKE A BLOODY EFFORT to read the 2 main holy books of this religion, the Koran and the Hadith. Let me leave this choice quote from the Chapter of Women, verse 35…. ‘Men stand superior to women, in that Allah prefers men (!), those whose perverseness ye fear, (that is women’s perverseness), admonish them, remove the into bedchambers and BEAT them, but if they submit, then do not move against them’….. Now, if this is how they bully the smaller and weaker (which by the way is considered an anathema to us) then how are they going to treat the deeply HATED gays???In these holy books they are told that it is quite acceptable to lie to non muslims if it advances the cause of ALLAH’s religion. Read them if you want to pass judgements.

  52. Dearest darling Peter,

    I am not advocating violence against you. To put it in easy, simple terms, commie scum like you will understand, you will be hoist by your own petard.

    The scum-sucking, sub-human filth, ie muslims will kill you as readily for being queer or Jewish. Take your pick.

    Which side are YOU on?.

    1. I’m on any side your not on the way you speak shows the true colours of your personality and anything that vile is obviously not on my side

  53. Peter Tatchell 7 Sep 2011, 1:40am

    Let’s get some facts straight:
    I am not a member of UAF. Although I am an anti-fascist and anti-racist, I have been critical of aspects of UAF policy and tactics. This is why they did not invite me to speak at the anti-EDL demo in Whitechapel Road. I am a non-violent campaigner. I reject the street thuggery of the right and left. I did not attend last Saturday’s protest to support the UAF but to oppose threats and intimidation against the Muslim community by both the EDL and BNP and by the far right Islamist fundamentalists (who primarily menace ordinary Muslims).

    1. Sorry, I thought you were a member of the UAF, good that you’re not. I think you should give critique to both EDL and UAF respectively Peter. You’re very quick to comment on the EDL and much of it is right in my view but it also must contain criticism of UAF, Peter. When I speak to members of the public, it is UAF they can not stand more so than the EDL. UAF is helping people to have sympathy for EDL. UAF people are pretty stupid and their tactics are disgusting. You have seen the videos, you should research the number of arrests this group has had….. it could be argued they are worse than EDL. Maybe someone of your statue should create a new group to campaign against racism, bigotry etc and include ALL sections of society including middle and working class people and from all political parties like Conservative, Labour, UKIP, Liberal and none, a credible group that says no to racism, bigotry against Muslims and LGBT people but also says no to Islamic extremism and violence.

  54. Peter Tatchell 7 Sep 2011, 1:49am

    I accept that some EDL supporters are sincere and not racist; that they are genuinely only against fundamentalist Islamism.
    But consider these facts:
    * Key leaders of the EDL used to be members of the neo-fascist BNP.
    * The EDL exaggerates the Islamist threat (real but not as big as they claim) and slur all Muslims; conflating Islamism with the wider British Muslim population who do not share the Islamist agenda.
    * Too many EDL members have expressed openly racist views.
    * Many EDL marches have resulted in violence by EDL supporters against Black, Asian and Muslim people and businesses.
    * Some EDL members have denounced me as a “traitor” and said that I should be killed.

    I do not support Islamists or their left-wing apologists. I have campaigned against Islamist fundamentalists since the early 1990s. Scroll down here:

    1. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 9:33am

      The EDL distinguishes between muslim extremists and ordinary muslims, but Tatchell is too busy with his left-wing lies to admit that point. Your campaigns against islamic fundamentalism have been (sadly) an abject failure. The Quilliam leaked memo from last year shows the poison has spread throughout the land. There were muslim asian, non-muslim asians, and black africans on the 3 Sept demo. Why would such people go to multiple EDL demos if EDL was in theory racist and was in practise racist? The photos on the Gay Division’s Page are there for all to see. Yet still you persist in your cover-up lies for the far-left. You are a traitor to gay rights. Clearly your ego is more important than the truth.

    2. Peter, I accept all your critique of the EDL and do believe the organisation contains racists, bigots etc but you have to understand why the EDL was formed. Before you attack them, understand their anger. I am a white working class lad and I don’t know anyone who is a member of EDL, I know people that are sympathetic to them and it’s because white working class people see a class between Muslim culture and their culture. They read in the news about Muslim extremists on the streets screaming our soldiers should be killed for being in Iraq and Afghanistan and nothing is done about it. I could go on and on Peter. As none of the political parties are prepared to challenge this, the EDL was set up and some working class people are trying to ‘fight back’. The group contains many illiterate people but people with grave concerns and do not know a better way to confront their anger. They join EDL as they believe this will make a difference, whether that is right or wrong in your view.

      1. Luke: The EDL are wrong in what they are fighting back against. If they were truly concerned about ordinary working people they would be engaged in fighting against mass unemployment, the closure of youth centres, play schemes and libraries, the enforcement of worthless ‘back to work’ projects, low wages, the absence of meaningful apprenticeships for young people, encouraging community cohesion instead of disintegration, protecting disability benefits, fighting for affordable child care and equal pay for women, cheap social housing, equal rights for all minority groups (including LGBT)…. All they can offer is hate against one particular minority group that are unfortunate enough to be plagues by a tiny minority of extremists.

  55. Peter Tatchell 7 Sep 2011, 1:59am

    I accept that some EDL supporters are sincere and not racist; that they are genuinely only against fundamentalist Islamism.
    But consider these facts:
    * Key leaders of the EDL used to be members of the neo-fascist BNP.
    * The EDL exaggerates the Islamist threat (real but not as big as they claim) and slur all Muslims, conflating Islamism with the wider British Muslim population who do not share the Islamist agenda.
    * EDL members have expressed openly racist views.
    * Many EDL marches have resulted in violence by EDL supporters against Black, Asian and Muslim people and businesses.
    * Some EDL members have denounced me as a “traitor” and said that I should be killed.

    I do not support Islamists or their left-wing apologists. I have campaigned against Islamist fundamentalists since the early 1990s, often at considerable personal risk. Scroll down here:

    1. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 3:44pm

      * East London Mosque hosted known homophobic and terrorist muslim preachers (yet you distinguish between the leaders and others)
      * The islamist threat has resulted in the worst terrorist attack in London and there are up to 200 muslims on terrorist charges. You belittle the threat of terrorism, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
      * Muslims have expressed openly racist, misogynistic and homophobic views (yet you still defend muslims and islam)
      * The vast majority of EDL marches and demos have resulted in no attacks against blacks, asians and muslims. The muslim/uaf attack on the coach going through Whitechapel was worse than all the violence you claim happened at 2 years of EDL demos and marches.
      * Plenty of muslims have also said you should be killed (yet you still defend muslims and islam). You do not defend EDL as you do islam, therefore you are a traitor.

      YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE AND A LIAR. Where is your comparison between the HuT Constitution and the EDL Mission Statement?

      1. You response to Peters’ list with a load of propaganda styled “them out there out to get us” remarks. Any chance you have a coherent answer for how you explain your ranks full of neo-fascist BNP instead of the tantrum? Try again and answer the points put to you.

  56. The alarmist, scare mongering EDL are a complete fake. Islamisation and sharia law would have to be introduced by the state which has banned Islamist groups and jailed/deported most of their leaders. The EDL’s brand of attempted National racialism will only attract football thugs and disgruntled malcontents for queen and country. I suggest LGBT people, muslims and sikhs leave the EDL before they boot you out when they are stronger.

    Peter Tatchell has mistaken the windbag, homopohobic rhetoric of Islamist fanatics for real influence. They have next to none. He should spend his time attacking Public service job losses, forcing sick people back to work and the cutting of services which will all disproportionately affect LGBT people.

    1. EDL Supporter 7 Sep 2011, 9:28am

      The islamic fascist party in Britain (HuT) has been poisoning muslim communities for 26 years. The Quilliam Foundation reported last year that up to 30 large/national muslim organisation share HuT’s goal of a caliphate (with non-muslims living under full sharia law). Surveys show that the younger generation of muslims are 2x to 3x more fundamentalist than their parents, and 59% of muslims want sharia law – Sharia law has been allowed to sneak in by the back door – there are already approx. 100 sharia courts in the UK. Those who deny these facts are delusional. And Tower Hamlets is now a Gay Free Zone. That is a sign of what is in store for other cities. Tower Hamlets is supposed to be 36% muslim, yet 58% of the councillors are muslims. The muslim population of Britain doubles every 10 years. And over 20 years, 10 out of 15 gay venues closed down. The solution is to de-radicalise British muslims.

      1. And when you’re finished with the muslims who’s next, blacks or queers?

        1. Muslims are subscribes to a certain ideology, which even in its supposedly moderate form is extremely conservative compared to the values of mainstream Britain.

          They are not like gays or blacks who are just born a little different.

          It’s wrong to bash someone for their inborn nature like being gay or being left-handed. It’s not wrong to criticise people on the basis of views they hold e.g. Islam.

          1. It seems that the hardest thing in the world is getting people from all sides, all religions, all colours to make a stand against ALL intolerance, not just intolerance that affects themselves or their ‘own’. The Left, Right and elements of political Islam bend everything to suit their own agenda. When was the last time the BNP mentioned racist attacks on black people? Yet they’ll shout from the rooftops about hatred directed towards whites. When was the last time the UAF/SWP condemned racist attacks on white people? They’re more than happy to highlight intolerance towards black and brown people. When was the last time IFE made a stand against hardline Salfis promoting hatred and intolerance of non-Muslims? Yet they’ll make a song and dance about anti-Muslim bigotry.

            No-one is going to get anywhere until people get onboard the message that Peter Tatchell and others try to get across – that no hatred or intolerance is acceptable no matter who is behind it, no excuses. Too many people willing to turn a blind eye to intolerance from their ‘own’.

          2. Oh please haters hate thats what they do. Do you think that the EDL members will start planting peace gardens and volunteering if all the muslims left the UK tomorrow?

  57. june brown 7 Sep 2011, 2:58pm

    Peter Tatchell is a big girls blouse, and I cannot think of anyone more deserving of abuse than him.

    Serves him right ha ha

    1. Grow up. Put something intelligent together by way of a response, but don’t behave like a 7 years old bitch.

    2. Peter Tatchell is a great role model for the LGBT community, plus society as a whole! He stands up for LGBT rights whilst looking at the bigger picture, as he is acutely aware of so many human rights violations, not just those in the LGBT community. I have alot of respect for him, even when i don’t agree with him 100%. He is an atheist, I am a Christian, but I respect, understand and agree with many of his opinions, theories and comments on how religion has often harmed LGBT people. He articulates the facts well & does his research.

      I wish that those in the LGBT community who are so certain that what they believe is the truth for everyone else would open their mind and stop being so tunnel-visioned. NONE of us can see the whole picture regarding this matter or any other, so to of you who are being judgemental, presumptuous, defensive and narrow minded, please think of the wider picture and try to imagine what other viewpoints exist and why, rather than assuming you are always right!

  58. Always intrigued by the mental gymnastics indulged in by the left to somehow try and make facts fit their dogma.

    Lets face facts, the scariest manifestation of fascism around today is that of Islamic fascism. Having once known someone who was gay and muslim isn’t going to make a shred of difference to the teachings of the koran.


    Three men executed in Iran for ‘homosexual crimes’. Executed in the name of the religion Peter T says is less homophobic than Christianity. Crazy man!

  60. Jock S. Trap 8 Sep 2011, 11:12am

    “You must remove this placard…You can’t walk here with these words…We don’t allow gays in this area…Gays are not permitted here…We don’t have gays in Tower Hamlets.”

    And there we have it. Sadly all will be caught up with this attitude and someone needs to remind them that this is the UK Not Iran!

    It seems we have hypocrites who wish to prtest against hate by advocating hate, even though all are their for, what I thought, was one purpose.

    The fact people can say ‘Gays don’t exist here’ shows the lack of education, tolerance and respect for the community and the country.

    While governments, let this slip and carry on what about Gay Muslims? What about Gay anybody, or Lesbian, Bisexual etc. Where do they and us fit in a country where being Gay, Lesbian etc is an accepted part of British community?

    Shameful but sadly, not surprising.

    1. Jock S. Trap 8 Sep 2011, 11:13am

      The government cannot remain silent over this blatant homphobia and along with all hatred if people don’t like it, it should be a judges right to removed people wioth such hatred to allow them to live in countries that accomodate their bigotted hadred. But remove them from our freedoms if they hate it so much!

  61. Many of these comments would not be out of place in far right forums. For opposing the EDL Tatchell is called just about all the names he was called in Bermondsey in 1983 – apart of course from “poof.”
    All hate crime is bad not just homophobic crime (the statistics of racial violence in the East End, particularly against Asians, have long been horrific). Those who blame the closure of gay bars on Muslims are no different than those who blamed Jews for economic problems in the 1930s.
    This thread is no aberration. There has even been at least one article in the gay press promoting the EDL.
    How different the response by Jewish community groups and organisations who roundly condemn the EDL and have the intelligence to realise that the hate they spew against Muslims can easily be redirected (and has been directed in the past) at them.

    1. EDL Supporter 13 Sep 2011, 12:19am

      What a load of rubbish. Where are these fictitious statistics about hate crime against muslims in the east end? Andrew Gilligan refuted that crap when he destroyed the European Muslim Research Centre’s bogus report. The EMRC report was shown to be a tissue of lies, and was withdrawn by Exeter University. You are just an idiot who repeats things that are provably false.

      You are the kind of Kapo who would help the N*zis push people into gas champers. As Gilligan shows, it’s the homophobic crime that is out of control, not religious hate crime.

  62. Hi, I would probably be termed a “fundamentalist” by most people in this country, because I am quite passionate about my religion. I would like to clarify that from an Islamic stance, the intimidation and behaviour of the Muslims towards Peter was completely unacceptable, and stems mainly from their ignorance of Islam, it’s teachings, and its role in British society. Muslims have no right to impose their values on others in this country. We may only limit ourselves to giving good advice and encouraging with courtesy to refrain from actions that are not permitted in our religion such as alcohol, smoking, other drugs, relationships outside marriage etc. Another error committed by such Muslims is their self-righteous attitude over others, including other Muslims who they feel may not be as righteous as them. A Muslim is completely forbidden forbidden from looking down on a person or hating a person, even if that person is the worst criminal. Pride is regarded as the worst sin in Islam.

    1. EDL Supporter 13 Sep 2011, 12:15am

      “the intimidation and behaviour of the Muslims towards Peter was completely unacceptable, and stems mainly from their ignorance of Islam” And yet, in lots of islamic states he would have been dragged off and imprisoned and/or tortured and/or executed. How do you explain that? Are they misunderstanders of islam too? It seems that the version of islam you are propounding exists in very few places. Perhaps it’s time you started consider if you should be doing something about the discrepancy between your islam and theirs? Either get on the streets and start telling them why they are wrong. Or find yourself a new religion (or even better, none at all). Almost every other page of the koran is judgemental.

  63. Just to put things into perspective there are four times as many racially and religiously motivated attacks in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets as there are homophobic ones. See the reference below from the Metropolitcan police.

  64. From his baptism of fire in the Bermondsey by-election 25 years ago, Peter has always stood by his words. He has managed, sometimes infuriatingly, to find a way to fight without hate. It is ultimately the only way. Hate is sometimes needed to put a wall between ourselves and fear but, if you want to do something other than cower behind a wall, you have to get over it.

  65. What you should have realized is that you were on the wrong side, you self-hating dhimmi. I hate Muslim asslifters BECAUSE I AM LIBERAL. If anyone deserved gay bashing it’s you, dummy-dhimmi.

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