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Storm over Scottish lesbian church minister’s civil partnership

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  1. Congratulations to her and her future partner.

    What a pity she is not allowed to get married solely because she is a lesbian.

    Although on a happier note, her CP is causing damage to her church.

    Anything that damages organised religion should be supported and celebrated.

    1. “What a pity she is not allowed to get married solely because she is a lesbian.”

      Actually I see it more as, she’s not allowed to marry because she is a Christian. It’s her chosen religion that’s causing her suppression, not her sexuality.

      1. Actually, every gay and lesbian can be in a same-sex relationship. Christian, or not. They just need to understand that God loves them as they are and he created them that way for a reason. While Atheists may stereotype religious people as these horrible, bigoted people I’ve met some pretty reasonable and nice Christians, Catholics, Mormons, etc.

        1. ‘God’ has nothing to do with marriage.

          It’s time these moronic cults woke up and realised that marriage as an institution existed before tje cults did. And that a cult’s opinion of marriage is entirely their own business and that they should not be allowed to pollute the legal system with their religious bigotry.

          1. I’m sure Lynn and other LGBT people of faith will be heartened by that desciption of her/their beliefs in what is already her dreadfully awful time.

          2. Kenneth – if this couple were not cult members then they would not be in this situation.

            They choose to be members of this homophobic organisation.

            I would encoiurage her to condemn the bigotry of her cult and the morons who support discrimination in her cult.

            She is free to find a more accepting cult if she wishes.

      2. A religious wedding is utterly meaningless without legal recognition.

        Same sex couples are denied access to the legal contract of civil marriage because they are gay.

        Whether a cult permits religious same sex (or opposite sex) weddings or not is entirely irrelevant.

        Religious weddings should not have any legal recognition.

        Civil marriage should be available to all couples who wish to avail of them.

        1. Stever, thank you for that. I am sure she IS challenging any bigotry, as do I, and my LGBT friends, whetehr people of faith or not, know this.

        2. Please go and spout your bigotry some place else SteveC. Don’t the humanists have a forum you can join? Or maybe try or something?

          1. Oh dear.

            Why is laughing at a freely chosen, completely voluntary belief system ‘bigotted’.

            These cultists really are deranged.

            They are trying to equalte their fictitious belief systems with immutable traits like race; sex; age.

            That’s why these cultists are so dangerously lunatic.

    2. I doubt the Lynn herself would celebrate any damage to the organised religion to which she is committed, despite what the perceptions are that it’s doing to her and her partner. What is ALSO missed by the press is that there are WAY more Christians supporting her than are attacking her.

  2. Jock S. Trap 31 Aug 2011, 11:00am

    So much hate.
    So much bigotry.
    It much be a religion.

    Shameful and highlights yet again that religion can give us the worst of humanity over something that really should be the best and happiest of humanity.

    Congrats Rev Lynn Brady and partner. Lets hope bigots make way for better decent people.

    1. So much hate
      So much bigotry
      So much religion

      1. Jock S. Trap 31 Aug 2011, 11:36am

        Too much…

  3. I’m so conflicted by these stories. On the one hand I’m not surprised by the bigotry, it is often part of their dogma and I wonder why GLBTQ voluntarily join. On the other hand, someone has to be in the vanguard and be the ones who work for change and if that means putting up with some harsh language, then good for them. Oh well. They are legally competent adults and know better than me what is best for them. I’m just relieved (yet again) to be an atheist.

  4. ‘;…one in five church members have said they will leave if out gay ministers are permitted.’

    What are they waiting on.

    1. Good – the more fractured and divided these hate-filled cults are, the less influence they possess.

      1. de Villiers 31 Aug 2011, 5:46pm

        > Good – the more fractured and divided these hate-filled cults are, the less influence they possess.

        The person that sounds hate filled is you.

    2. It also means that 4 out of 5 will NOT be leaving – I’m one of them.

      1. Your cult is diminishing (by 20% in 1 instant) however which is a cause for celebration.

        Organised religious has nothing of value to offer the world.

        It simply promotes hatred, division and stupidity (and for evidence have a deeper look at ANY organised religion and see how they oppose democracy and human rights).

        1. Well, you’re entitled to your opinion Steve, but I think that is a stereotype for there is much evidence to show that for as much as organised religion (or perhaps some within it) promoted hatred, division and stupidity, there are many examples (Rev’d Dr. Martin Luther King, Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu etc.) who positively promote basic human rights and dignity. Keep on slagging us off but we’ll just keep on fighting, using our faith for strength and guidance, to support you all the way – now, what is 6 + 7 so I can post this comment? I need a beer ;-)

        2. de Villiers 31 Aug 2011, 5:46pm

          Art, music, comfort, relief, community, charity. You are blinkered and bigoted.

          1. No I’m not – I just choose not to believe that a genocidal sky fairy is an omnipotent being.

            How these christianist can believe that a being who cold-bloodedly murdered the 1st born child of every Egyptian is a force for good, shows their idiocy and stupidity.

            I regard these stories are fictitious. The christianists however believe that a genocidal maniac like ‘god’ should be worshipped.

            Truly pathetuc they are.

      2. Jock S. Trap 31 Aug 2011, 2:27pm

        Indeed but also not forgetting that one in ten said they will leave if the ban continues.

        So I think the answer can be summed up in two words for those one in five… Good Riddance!

    3. de Villiers 31 Aug 2011, 5:45pm

      > Good – the more fractured and divided these hate-filled cults are, the less influence they possess.

      The person that sounds hate filled is you.

      1. I do not hate anybody based on their race, sex, sexualty, age, ethnicity.

        i do not hate people with religious belief (absurd though it is).

        I just want to live in a society where these absurd believes are forbidden from polluting democracy and human rights as they have done for centuries.

        1. de Villiers 5 Sep 2011, 8:55am

          You are full of hate, brimming, even. You are also particularly stupid in making crass generalisations about a “sky god” which is far from any proper understanding of god in any serious theological learning.

          On each occasion you spout your bitter vitriol you demonstrate your total unsuitability for commenting on anything in the presence of thinking people.

  5. I thought the same, such a shame she can’t tell them she will be marrying the person she loves and wants to share her life with because our society is too hetero-supremacist to accept equality for same sex couples.

    1. Please excuse, I meant heterosexual-supremacist.

      1. When will the promised CONSULTATION ON MARRIAGE EQUALITY begin in England I wonder?

  6. I hope Lynn and her partner have a wonderful life together, and I hope Lynn is supported in continuing to do the job God called her to do – to minister to others. LGBT rights and faith need not be mutually exclusive – Lynn would appear to be an example of that, and could probably use some support.

    1. LGBT rights and religious faith need not be mutually exclusive but generally speaking they are.

      Religious faith is responsible for the vast majority of homophobic bigotry in this (and all other) countries.

      The ‘God’ worshipped by these religious cretins sounds like a vicious, evil, hateful monster.

      Thank Cher that ‘God’ is a fictional character.

      1. Nice to know that your LGBT brothers and sisters of faith, including this Minister, are viewed as religious cretins by this comment. It seems so often that LGBTs get support by many LGBTs but apparently not if they’re people of faith – a bit like Christians gets support but not (from ‘some) if they’re LGBT.

        1. I am an atheist.

          The complete lack of evidence of the existence of ‘god’ means that it’s natural that I view anyone who believes in the existence of that genocidal sky-fairy should be regarded with suspicion.

          Do you condemn your ‘god; for its genocdal murder of every 1st born Egyptian child. If so then how can you worship the monstrous old b-@-st@ard?

          Or do you accept that this story is completely fictional?

          The bible is a badly written work of fiction, written to give meaning to the lives of desert dweling illiterate peasants who lived thousands of years ago.

          it has nothing of value to offer the world any more.

          And any gay person who is religious must be stupid considering the vicious, monstrous homophobia of these cults.

          1. Steve – it wasn’t too hard to work out that you’re an atheist.
            I’m curious though – since I have dear friends who are Christian, other faiths, straight, LGBT, atheist, agnostic, and all stops in between, all of whom seem to think well enough of me to be my friend, does that make all of them stupid too?
            Homophobia and other prejudices are horrible and damaging, and have no place in any group, faith-based or not.
            Thank you Pink News for keeping these issues live!

          2. Galadriel1010 31 Aug 2011, 2:32pm

            You are a bigot. It’s novel to see the situations reversed and to see the bigotry aimed at people of faith, not people of colour or non-straight and cis people, but your vile attitude towards christians is nothing more than a prejudice.

            Those who believe in God would take the documented miracles performed by his saints over the last 2000 years to be proof of his existence, but if you’re going to pick and choose what you consider evidence then there’s no point in arguing with you.

            You also seem incapable of telling the difference between a believer and a member of a church. There are many christians who belong to gay friendly churches, many who don’t belong to any church at all, and there are those who believe in God and consider themselves a part of one church but are actively working to change the culture of that church.

          3. “When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion”.

            Belief in God is not just irrational, but it’s also potentially deadly, it is not possible to reason with unreasonable people who have already demonstrated by their belief without evidence or faith that they have irrational minds.
            As religions are so potentially deadly it is not an option to leave them to get on with their various agenda’s to dominate the world and the world’s populations unhindered.
            Ridicule is a potent weapon and a necessary defence against unreason.

          4. Diane – Yes I believe that your friends who have faith in ‘god’ are are stupid. I am not saying that they are bad people; in fact they may be very nice and kind. But clearly their belief in a higher power, despite the complete lack of evidence for its existence makes them stupid and delusional.

            Galadriel – it is not bigotted to regard people of faith as stupid and ignorant. I am not arguing that these stupid people be denied housing, employment, marriage; equality. I am merely stating that they are stupid for believing in their ‘god’. There is no evidence for ‘god’.

            As for the ‘documented’ miracles performed by ‘god’ and its ‘saints’ over the past 2000 years, all I can say to that is that somethiing being documetned does not make it true.
            JK Rowling documented the fictional tale of Harry Potter. It does not make Harry Potter a real character. Just because someone documents some fictional stories about an insane carpenter who pretends to be tyhe almighty does not make it true.

          5. de Villiers 31 Aug 2011, 5:47pm

            SteveC, you reveal your total ignorance of any serious theology.

          6. @ deVilliers.
            Serious theology? (lol)

          7. “I am an atheist.”

            No, you’re a moron.

          8. Serious theology???

            I’m screaming with laughter now.

            How can ANY theology be taken seriously when it requires a dismissal of all science and physics and medecine.

            Theology requires as its starting point a belief in a ‘god’..

            No thank you – there is not a shred of evidence for the existence of a ‘god’.

          9. de Villiers 5 Sep 2011, 9:00am

            Steve you are utterly unlearned and also, woefully stupid. The old testament, written over decades, represents a serious attempt at philosophy, art and poetry.

            Reinterpreted, it continues to have relevance to lives of millions, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.

            It is obvious to state that all the stories are completely fictional. That, however, is fundamentally to misunderstand their meaning. Such stories will have been written to encapsulate a particular point of understanding or meaning. The moment such stories fail to be reinterpreted in light of modern experience, they become fall into disuse and become empty. Similar to poetry or works of Shakespeare that are reinterpreted in each generation to show a different level of understanding or meaning. The purpose of the interpretation is to fill the text with modern experience and to update it relevance. Such is the proper approach to biblical work.

          10. de Villiers 5 Sep 2011, 9:06am

            Crass and unlearned trivialisation such as “sky god” are completely at odd with any serious theological discussion.

            The whole philosophical concept of the self, being and non-being when applied to any form of discussion about god emphasis the important not of presence but merely of a duality of existence / non existence and the role of faith.

            To take the Trinity, as an example, if god is posited as infinite, it makes little sense to speak of the Father, the Son and the Spirit in the sense that infinity plus infinity plus infinity cannot amount either to three or, in any meaningful sense, to infinity. The purpose of the doctrine is to approach the indescribable and unexpressable in order to appreciate the limit of spoken expression and to promote the ineffable.

            We do the same with music or art. A truly heightened piece of music or art cannot be described in words but can only be felt, taking the observer beyond the realms of description to an indescribable feeling of otherness.

          11. “The old testament, written over decades, represents a serious attempt at philosophy, art and poetry.”

            Attempt being the operative word. I find little art in a book of fairy stories, regardless of how many people think them “real”. Its well documented, that the more religious you are, the more likely you’ll be to have a lower intelligence. I suppose when you need stories about a old git in a whale, you might be one who needs simplicity in all aspects of ones life.

  7. I wish them both a lifetime and mote of happiness together ^^

  8. Galadriel1010 31 Aug 2011, 2:35pm

    Congratulations to them. I hope that the majority of her congregation will be supportive to them now and for the rest of their hopefully long and happy marriage.

    1. They are not married.

      They are denied access to the legal contract of civil marriage because they are gay.

  9. Pavlos – Oh how I agree, religion is deadly. Why not replace it with other things… Stalin for example? He was pretty deadly but he wasn’t a person of faith. Given the people I mentioned in an earlier post, I look forward to you naming and shaming Christians with ridicule. Try starting with Martin Luther King and Arch Bishop Desmond Tutue – I’m sure they will be relieved to hear your words of wisdom. Groan, what is 4 + 9 so I can post this? I hate being so stupid and ignorant because I’m a Christian and can therefore not think – anyone got more beer?

    1. ‘Tutu* can’t even get THAT right can I ;-)

      1. ….and while you’re at it, please let this lot know too – – oh dear, 4 + 7 now :-(

    2. Stalin was a megalomanical and murderous dictator who behaved like an all powerful demigod, he based his manipulation of people on what he learned studying theology in a seminary fused with the reading he did while there on Marxist ideology.
      Please do not confuse the Marxist ideology of a despot with atheism or you just make yourself look either foolish or ingenuous.
      I am not interested in ridiculing individuals but manipulative religious organisations and the nonsense they peddle are fair game…K?

      1. de Villiers 5 Sep 2011, 9:10am

        Pavlos, it just happens that deliberately atheist countries, as opposed to secular countries, happen to have had the worse abuses of human rights in history. Germany in the 1940s, the Soviet Union in the 20th century, China today. It is not unreasonable to point out the correlation.

        1. Your example is flawed, and puerile. The reason they were oppressive is NOT barbecue of secularism, its because they were dictatorships. Secularity was simply a ruse to promote state above all else, even religion. True secularists promote reason above religious dogma.

          A desperate comparison to defend your predantic religion.

          1. Will, as a research scientist, LGBT friendly person of faith (though clearly not as intelligent as people who do not have a faith obviously) I look forward to sharing your empirical evidence of our lower intelligence with my colleagues (believers and otherwise) if you would kindly post the links. Thank you.

          2. P.S., thank you for introducing me to a new word. I’d heard of ‘pedantic’ but never ‘predantic’ – how unintelligent of me ;-) Oh dear, what is 2 + 7? Always a struggle.

  10. This is the best way to fight homophobia, by ripping up the church from the inside.
    Let’s hope more gay clergy get married.
    The sooner religion dies, the sooner we can all be free of honour killings, jihad, hate crime and such.

    1. If more gay clergy marry, it’s hardly likely to rip the church up. Most of us are happy with it. If you HONESTLY delude yourself into thinking that people won’t find lots of other reasons to hate (Stalin anyone?) then hate, which people dress up as religion, will dimply find itself another guise and eveyone will be surprised when it creeps up on them. “Ah, religion’s gone, we’re all safe now”. Can’t wait for a security queston with the answer ’42’ (Hitchhikers Guide)

      1. *simply* – too much beer obviously

      2. Blathering on about Stalin makes you just as stupid as SteveC, especially when you can counter with Hitler, Osama bin Laden, Robert Mugabe, Saddam Hussein, Colonel Gadafi, the various Popes… the list is endless really because religion is such a good tool to control people with. Stalin recognised this and used the orthodox church in the beginning of his sadistic mission.

        This being said people should be free to believe what the hell they want to believe as long as they don’t harm or discriminate against others.

        If we all accepted as a universal truth then there wouldn’t be a need for religious crusades and jihad etc.

        1. Hello Joss. Well, thanks for that. I think I was pointing out that it’s not necessarily religious people who are the problem. That non-religious people use religion (or not as the case may be) to further their rather nasty aims, to me, shows that it is the human heart that is bitter and nasty and chooses to call people stupid, nasty, bigoted etc. I prefer to just say goodnight and I hope you’re all well, sleep easy, suffer not from prejudice and if you choose to keep up the vitriol, so be it. Take care everyone and sleep well, I’m off for a beer and watch telly (Oh dear, what’s 10 + 8?) ;-)

          1. Let’s be clear I wasn’t attacking your religion or claiming that’s is the reason behind my calling you stupid it’s just your ridiculous repetition of a flawed argument re.

            “That non-religious people use religion … to further their rather nasty aims…”

            Are you implying here that non religious people are the only people who use religion in this way and that religious people are completely innocent of this crime?

            “…shows that it is the human heart that is bitter and nasty…”

            Not all human hearts are nasty and bitter (this sounds a lot like the concept of original sin btw which was a great Catholic invention to manipulate the masses with guilt).

            If we swap the words “human hearts” for ‘religious cult followers’ you’re argument is as similar in structure to SteveC’s, thus as I said before, you’re no better than he.

            “…and chooses to call people stupid, nasty, bigoted etc”

            I only called you stupid.

            “if you choose to keep up the vitriol, so be it”
            Vitriol against whom?

    2. I think people like this reverend is doing us all a favour.

      the more fractured these cults become the less influence they have.

      That is good for everyone.

      1. de Villiers 31 Aug 2011, 5:50pm

        You are as bigoted and blinkered as anyone – it reveals a nasty streak of intolerance and bullying as part of your basic personality.

        1. @de Villiers
          There is nothing in SteveC’s comment asbove that could be interpreted as bullying.
          I see no reason why individuals should tolerate the intolerance of powerful cults or religious organisations nor their flocks of unpleasant and bigoted adherents.

          1. He’s a christian though.

            Therefore more than likely a whiner with a victim complex.

            Rationality and common sense are alien to those who believe in ‘god’ so they have to rely on silly claims about being bullied,

            Religious people cannot prove the existence of their ‘god’ therefore start whinnig about ‘bullying’ when challenged on their beliefs.

            meanwhile the vast majority of religions continue their efforts to undermine democracy and human rights by perverting our secular laws with their delusions.

          2. Jock S. Trap 1 Sep 2011, 11:50am

            Trouble is SteveC not only have you (maybe rightly) condemned those one in five that threaten to leave this church but you have automatically put in the same league the one in ten who threaten to leave is a ban on Gay ministers remains.

            There are plenty of Christians who disagree with such extremists who believe in democracy and want better human rights for all including the LGBTQI community.

            Now I’m certainly no fan of religion but like some people who wish to keep their sexuality amongst themselves and quiet is a Right, these people have the Right to worship ‘God’, so long as it doesn’t affect or harm others. Then that a different cattle of fish.

            Religion would be better off in the history book, it certainly would be progress for a better humanity but truth is it’s not going to just go. So if LGBTQI people within the religion can make a difference, so be it.

          3. Jock S. Trap 1 Sep 2011, 11:51am

            They should be entitled to do so and make a difference and contribute to helping religion progress, If thats at all possible!

          4. de Villiers 5 Sep 2011, 9:12am

            Steve’s comments are, constantly, full of invective, bile, bitterness and hate. I have never seen a thoughtful contribution from him rather than an angry denunciation delivered from on high as a pious little homily.

          5. de Villiers 5 Sep 2011, 9:12am

            -message to Pavlos

  11. Well Steve, again I say, are you therefore stating that the likes of Martin Luther King are stupid? You clearly are. Anyway, it’s been nice having this little cht. I’ll take my stupid self off now and wish you wel. I look forward to perhaps meeting you when I’m marching at Pride with my LGBT Christian friends and you telling them they’re all stupid. Maybe wait until the march is over though eh, and have a wee rant at them in the pub? ;-)

  12. Harry Potter’s not real? *sobs* You’ll be telling me Santa Claus isn’t real next :-(

  13. You always hear about important people in the church resigning when one of their own turns out to be lgbt, or they support stem cell research or whatever.

    Where’s the logic in quitting your job because somebody else is getting married?

    1. What you hear LESS of is all the people who stay and support them as so many of us do. I would however, question whether the ones who resign are THAT important – just noisy.

  14. A source says:

    ““Personally, I don’t think this is right and I don’t believe in same-sex civil unions.”

    Nope, they definitely exist, there’s documented evidence, unlike, ooh, lets think… ;D

    1. Nice one!
      A christian told me he believed in marriage once, and I told him I did too – I’d seen them everywhere.

  15. you absolutely right to be congratulated on love found, which is beautiful and a good thing to actually care for some one and them care back without trying to harm you like so many hetersexual marriages they are horrifying , i know a great many and none are happy and the women are never happy, there, in hetersexual marriages and relationships their dangerous and brutal and untrustworthy connections mostly its because of the bad heteros men, yes you can alway take your partner and get married somewhere else like new york and use it for a honeymoom spot, too, like many others are doing , there are other places too, this is all the cause more you get that country of your human rights and civil right and equal rights , stable, turn it around and get good officials, who are not bigots and demand a better relations and characters in your communites, its usually just rialed up by a few hate religions tied to the republican party, or a few other klans and gangs of bigotry, not the majoriity

  16. I just wrote kinda my true story, in a movie , i write, and this movie i wrote, is called kiss my ass i am going to exhale, its about a lady lesbian pastor who found true love and a spiteful jealous heterosexual bad man pastor was jealous, so he tried to ruin her pastorhood in the church by telling a lot of untrue lies on her, well none of the lies people could face to face see, so the one watching new he was lying they didnt just know they where personal evil jeialous attacks of his own , like the other religious bigots you maybe encountering , you exhale anyway and marry your love and be happy and tell them to kiss your ass in that deities name of mind you own business and get a life, and stay out of ours

  17. I hope she marries no matter what the church says or does. The church clergy and all the followers have chosen not to follow certain archaic verses in the bible before, such as the Deuteronomy verse that allows selling a daughter into slavery. It’s time to realize there are other archaic verses that must be ignored.

    1. She is not allowed to marry.

      She is a lesbian therefore denied access to the legal contract of marriage.

      Even if her cult allows her to have a religious wedding it does not alter the fact that gay couples are legally denied access to marriage.

  18. To Joss, Steve C et al, thank you for your comments. My argument is not that religious people are innocent of the sorts of things discussed here but that they are not the only ones guilty of dreadful behaviour. Citing religion without realising that others too have committed appalling crimes is a little narrow. As for vitriol; I’m a little surpirsed at that given I support LGBT, I am on here to show solidarity with you and at no point have I called anyone stupid etc. However, if my attempts to enter into dialogue are slapped down with rudeness and insults, I will continue to support LGBT but please remember, Christian LGBT people have a hard enough time of it as it is with condemnation from within and outwith the church. They hardly need to be called stupid from within their own community. I wish you all the very best and safety from oppression.

  19. Agreed steve C. Why are lesbians and gays wanting to join the church in the first place? Is it because they want to reconcile faith with sexuality or is it because they want to split the church? Either way, it has good and bad connotations for the gay community.

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