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Australian anti-gay marriage rally held as poll finds Christians support equality

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  1. Typical nonsensical “slippery slope argument”. Marriage equality does not lead the children marrying adults as marriage is a contract that requires legally competent consenting adults. Every time they use that argument, they prove again how dumb they are. And it is good that moderate christians are standing up to be noticed. Let’s be honest, most christians are NOT rapidly homophobic hateful lunatics – it is time for them to stand out against those who are, those who get all the air time, and say “not in my name.” I am very much of the opinion that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem, and electing for silence as people defame their faith with hatred is something they should be looking at stopping.

    1. Dr Herbert Shellface 17 Aug 2011, 12:49pm

      We should be compassionate to homophobes, they are ill:

      Cognitive inhibition in individuals prone to homophobia

      Abstract
      Individuals scoring either High, Medium, or Low on the Homosexism Short-Form scale (Hansen, 1982) made speeded decisions to neutral (N), mildly provocative (MP), or very provocative (VP) statements regarding issues relating to homophobia. These three groups did not differ on age, education, reading rate, or vocabulary ability. It was predicted that individuals High in homophobia would produce faster reaction times to the VP sentences than those individuals scoring Medium or Low in homophobia. Results indicated the opposite pattern. Individuals scoring High in homophobia actually had slower reaction times to VP sentences than did either the Medium or Low homophobia individuals. Results are discussed within an inhibitory framework related to the High homophobia individuals’ overall homophobia schema. © 1998 John Wiley & Sons, Inc. J Clin Psychol 54: 155–162, 1998.

    2. Dr Herbert Shellface 17 Aug 2011, 12:51pm

      Of course some homophobes are also really suppressed gay people:

      Measurement and correlates of internalized homophobia: A factor analytic study
      Abstract
      We developed a scale to measure internalized homophobia in men who have sex with men, which is comprised of items derived from theoretical and clinical reports of internalized homophobia. Two hundred two men who have sex with men and who attend “Man to Man” sexual health seminars in a midwestern U.S. city completed the scale at baseline. Orthogonal factor analysis revealed four dimensions of internalized homophobia: public identification as gay, perception of stigma associated with being homosexual, social comfort with gay men, and the moral and religious acceptability of being gay. Factor scoring of these dimensions indicated that they were associated significantly with relationship satisfaction, duration of longest relationship, extent of attraction to men and women, proportion of social time with gay people, membership of gay/bisex

  2. Quote:
    He said: “Gay is one of the most beautiful words … no-one should have the right to take that word off us.
    No-one has taken the word from them. They can still use it in its original form.
    They obviously are so ignorant as to not know why the word gay is used to describe an out and proud person who is attracted to their own sex.
    Ignorant fools.

    1. Perhaps the heterosexual community should adopt the word lovely to describe ‘themselves’. We wpould then have ‘lovelies’ and ‘gays’ and then the so called ‘ignorant fools’ will be referred to as ‘lovelies’.

      1. perhaps ‘idiot’ is a good word to describe you.

      2. Keith you don’t want to be mistaken for lovies. Missionary-creeps is a perky title for people like you, nobody will mistake you for a hasbeen thespian that way.

        1. Dr Herbert Shellface 17 Aug 2011, 12:57pm

          How about using the word keith (or Pepa) as a word meaning obsessive homophobe, as in, he’s a bit of a keith.

          See the studies mentioned above for analysis.

    2. what about chick, pussy, dick etc? they don’t get worked up about those

      1. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:00pm

        Careful, saucy!

  3. And why do they not look to northern European countries and Canada to understand what they say is rubbish?

  4. OK so here’s how it is.

    According to these people allowing same sex couples to marry will (insert any bizarre random thought here – e.g. lead to the Earth being taken over by vengeful aliens from outer space – or to Elton John being elected World President with absolute powers for life or whatever…)

    And quite how committing yourself to one person for life is “selfish” is beyond me. I would have thought it would require quite a lot of discipline.

    The same nonsensical arguments could of course be applied everytime anyone proposes changing any laws.

    1. Paddyswurds 16 Aug 2011, 11:34am

      The bit about marriage equality preventing his daughters from marrying is the statement that says it all. The man is clearly a nut job and should be in secure accomodation. If his daughters are as ugly of spirit as he is they will certainly never be married as no sane man would want to be a member of such a hate filled family.

      1. Precisely.

        It is a statement that says in effect “It is not enough for me and my daughters to have the chance to be happy. There must be others whose lives are deliberately made less happy before we’re satisfied.”

        This is moral relatavism fuelled on heroin… These are obviously a bunch of crackpot moral degenerates…

      2. Exactly – in what conceivable way does equal marriage prevent his daughters from marrying? The man’s living in a topsy-turvy world.
        .
        (Why his daughters require protection is another issue.)

        1. What’s he expecting us to do? Gatecrash his daughter’s weddings like something out of “The Graduate”, nick the bridegrooms from under their noses and start going at it hammer and tongs on the altar? Frankly anyone who wants this guy as a father in law is welcome to it.
          I have some standards.

  5. “Truly this proposition deserves to be laughed at and ridiculed. It doesn’t serve any serious treatment.”

    So these bigots are in the second stage of fight against equality. (“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” Gandhi)

    1. That went well with the quotation marks. Sort it out, PN!

  6. Commander Thor 16 Aug 2011, 11:43am

    Did he just publicly announce that his four daughters are lesbians, and that he will be unable to bully them into fake heterosexual marriages if gay people are given equal civil rights?

    =====
    Nationals Senate leader Barnaby Joyce said his four daughters could be prevented from marrying if gay marriage is legalised.

    He said: “We know that the best protection for those girls is that they get themselves into a secure relationship with a loving husband, and I want that to happen for them.

    “I don’t want any legislator to take that right away from me.”

    1. No, i think he just indirectly announced he’s not very bright.

      1. I do sometimes wonder if this is all a cunning plan to lull us into a false sense of security that our enemies are incorrigibly thick.

        Even I could make a more plausible case against marriage equality than they have – and I say that as someone strongly pro marriage.

        1. I think the leaders of organisations like this are often intelligent enough to plan strategies and adapt, but many of the gullible followers and minions aren’t.

          Of course, another point is that there isn’t really any proper argument against equal marriage rights anyway. So they resort to lies and scare-mongering in lieu of facts.

      2. Nice one, Iris.

      3. Both Mad Bob Katter and gaffey Barnaby Joyce are not renowed for being the brightest in the South…but do have very big mouths and hats!

        1. Yes John, I totally agree. Unfortunately for Australia, reaching our age of maturity is still a long way off I think by yesterdays charade in Canberra. The ugly sexist attacks on Gillard are shameful along with the shrill leader of the opposition inciting hatred.

  7. if these quotes are accurate, then a lot of these folk must be even more barking mad than anyone thought. Bring it on. Every time they open their deranged mouths they advance the cause of marriage equality.

  8. I want the state to recognise a gay civil union the same as straight civil union, whether its given the label marriage or not is of no concern to me.

    I disagree with the statement about gay marriage being in line with christian values. It does clearly say in the bible that it’s wrong for man to be with man. So I wouldn’t say it’s in line with christian values. I just want equality.

    1. The notion that Christian values equate simply to what the Bible says is a late Protestant development and is un-historical in Christian terms. Christianity is an evolving community and faith tradition, like all religions (I’m an agnostic, by the way).

    2. Religion has nothing to do with marriage so it might not be in line with christian values but it doesn’t effect them.

      1. Quite true. But being aware that our religious opponents don’t even understand the history of their own faith is no bad thing.

    3. I’m not Christian, myself, but I have had many opportunities in the past to argue the question of gay marriage with fundamentalist types. Basically, to say Christianity is anti-gay marriage is, I think, just poor theology.

      As for labels, well, civil union is fine by me, or marriage, but not one for gays and another for straights (or even for Christian straights). If we accept anything less than equal, that is how we will be treated.

    4. Curious how some people switch between talking of what the Bible says and what the Gospels say. Jesus is not reported anywhere as being against same-sex relationships. If these so-called Christians operated by the code of behaviour that Jesus is reported to have promoted, the world would be a happier place. As it is, they selectively quote from the Old Testament and from St Paul, who – the Bible recalls – took part in a stoning, but do not follow the other bizarre precepts in the Bible

  9. Wow Australia REALLY wants to be like America.

    1. no, just equality

    2. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:01pm

      But some of America does have marriage Equality so guess not quite.
      -
      Mind you your right, too many there bigots too,

  10. What a conveniently timed hate protest – a day before the MPs are due to report back to parliament on the Australian marriage equality consultations with the electorate…..

    Won’t matter what the MPs say tomorrow, I’m afraid the consultation will end up with nothing….The PM doesn’t give a toss about it, she’s not going to do anything while the Catholic right wheel the power….

    Bored to the back teeth with these nutters, why do they get so much publicity..

  11. Australians easy going reputation has been torn to shreds. They will soon be shunned like rednecks

    1. Australia has always been a haven for inbred rednecks.

      It’s such a pity that the more reasonable sections of Australian society do not shun these bigots more.

      1. Australia has traditionally had very little interest in religion. Certainly what is now referred to as fundamentalism has had, and continues to have, very little influence. I feel this “National Day for Marriage” will sound absurdly American to most Australians.

        Having Bob Katter involved with this sort of thing won’t help their cause one iota. Bob Katter is a well known “ratbag” and has been for at least three decades.

        There may be some bigotted, inbred rednecks (although, as more than half the population of the country was either born elsewhere, or has a parent so born, inbreeding is probably more difficult than in most places), but don’t worry, most Australians regard such people as little more than an amusing joke, certainly not something to be taken seriously. I doubt most Australians are even aware of this “National Day for Marriage”.

  12. Another Hannah 16 Aug 2011, 12:44pm

    usual old rubbish from pseudo Christians. The arguments really are complete rubbish, and thoroughly dishonest. anybody who is not bigoted could give them any credance at all.

  13. These people are the dregs of humanity,

    They use their freely chosen, voluntary belief in a malevolent sky-fairy, to argue for the denial of human and civil rights to a law-abiding segment of the population,

    And leaders like Julia Gillard is willing to sacrifice our civil rights to keep these disgusitng bigots happy.

  14. “I don’t want any legislator to take that right away from me.”

    And yet you don’t want everyone to have that right you spiteful retarded bigot

    1. Very well put Tigra 07 – Although, I probably wouldn’t have the word retarded.

      1. *used

        : /

  15. Leave it to American religious nutters like Hagelin interfering. I wouldn’t mind betting she’s a shill for that evil organisation, the National Organisation for Marriage in America. Expect the same venomous rants as soon as the consultation gets underway in the autumn. Let’s hope Cameron et al don’t fall for it. Let’s also hope that Australia and the UK don’t end up becoming like America, a breeding ground for religious psychopathic nutbags.

    1. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:03pm

      Too right, couldn’t think of anything worse.

  16. As an Australian, we are not remotely like fundamentalist America! We had pride rallies across the nation this weekend and very few broadcasters picked it up, partially I think because of the widespread support and prevalence for it now. This, on the other hand, is news.

    And I am a little surprised by Barnaby Joyce’s comments. Katter has always been a nutjob and I concede Joyce is a conservative, but he always struck me as intelligent… something’s not quite right there.

    1. Baranby Joyce is a a Roman Catholic!!!!. Pro-life etc etc etc…I’d love you to tell me what Catholic Australian MP has spoken favourably for marriage equality…

      1. I had no idea that Barnaby Joyce was a Catholic but if that is the case it explains a great deal! But he is from Queensland and I went there once and that was quite enough! Australia’s north is like America’s south- too much Jesus!!!!!!

  17. douglas in canada 16 Aug 2011, 2:27pm

    I take offense to people who continue to use the phrase “christian values” as if:
    1) values didn’t exist before christianity came into being;
    2) if there are other ‘value systems,’ they are automatically evil or at least ‘less.’

    christians do not have a monopoly on values.
    Naming values “christian” does not make either the values or the people who practise them any better.

    People who use the phrase “christian values” are using it as a form of bullying of the form “I’m better than you.” This is just wrong.

    1. You sound like a professional offence taker.
      . If you recognize the concept of Christianity and the concept of values then surely you recognize that there can be ‘Christian values’, as opposed to ‘atheist values’, ‘nihlist values’ etc.

      1. douglas in canada 16 Aug 2011, 4:05pm

        Thanks, keith. No, I am not a professional offence taker. I agree that there can be ‘christian values’, just as there may be jewish or islamic or buddhist or hindu or other values, including atheist values.

        My point is that if certain values are identified as christian, that doesn’t automatically make them better. Usually, the people who use the phrase assume that ‘christian values’ ARE better than all the others and should trump anything and everything else. I am offended by the elitism of any group who claims to be the only one to hold “the truth.”

        There are also values that are common to many groups; these values are not specifically christian. The idea of “treating others the way you would like to be treated” is found in many ideologies, not just among christians – this is just one example.

        1. douglas in canada 16 Aug 2011, 4:07pm

          I can call this a “christian value” in that it can be found on a normal list of other “christian values.” It becomes a problem when someone (usually a christian) says it does not or cannot be a value held by anyone who doesn’t call themself a christian. That is arrogance.

        2. It certainly would be strange for a Christian to employ the phrase Buddhist values would it not. Since the term Christian values is legitimate and the commentator did not assert that Christian values are any better than other values (you just interpreted it that way), are you saying now that the phrase should not be used and is offensive. Does the same criteria apply also to buddhists, atheists etc?
          Are you also opposed to (and offended by ) groups claiming to hold ‘the truth’, Would you like to curtail their free speech on this harmless assertion?

          1. Tim Chapman 16 Aug 2011, 9:20pm

            I would not curtail the right to free speech of those who say things I find offensive but I will continue to be offended and I will continue to say so. It works both ways.

          2. Dr Herbert Shellface 17 Aug 2011, 1:01pm

            Am curious to know what values are deemed to be particularly and uniquely Christian, and whether all Christians would agree with what they are .

          3. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:08pm

            You mean a bit like how strange it would be for a person following bits of the Bible that suit, constantly visiting a LGBT news site to pour scorn over something they clearly know nothing about or want to get involved in… well, so they keep saying. I’m not convinced.

          4. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:10pm

            Think is Keith, in truth your not opposed because you clearly know nothing to be opposed to. It’s all assumptions on your behalf so being you know nothing about the LGBT community I can’t see how you can be opposed to it. You don’t understand enough to be opposed,

      2. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:05pm

        You seem like a professional w@nker but your still here, so…

    2. Excellent point, Douglas…

      The Universal Declaration of Human Rights enshrines all the values any society could possibly possibly need.

      Still, now that ILGA has been granted UN accreditation by the United Nations Economic and Social Council, of which Australia is an active member, it comes as no surprise to see a Xtrian Fundamentalist anti-gay backlash in so many other countries besides the USA.

    3. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:04pm

      Indeed – for too many the words ‘Christian values’ actually mean squat. I doubt they even know what it means.

  18. If these morons can come up with one example of same sex marriage leading to paedophilia or the breakdown of a heterosexual marriage then they should provide it. They can’t, because there isn’t any.

    For my part I can show them evidence of disgusting amounts of paedophilia sanctioned and covered up by the church and untold examples of heterosexual infidelity leading to heterosexual marriage breakdown.

    They are lying morons who should be challenged each time their bigoted mouths open.

    One piece of evidence to support their views – we’re waiting.

    1. Dr Herbert Shellface 17 Aug 2011, 1:03pm

      Most child abuse is known to be between father and daughter within a heterosexual family.

      1. Thay is because there are far more heterosexuals. There is a disproportianate amount of child abuse amongst homosexuals. That is to say 1000 homosexuals will offend more than 1000 heterosexuals.
        Heteropride!

        1. Dr Herbert Shellface 18 Aug 2011, 12:19pm

          Rubbish, you made that up as with so many of your delusional “facts”; and don’t bother quoting Narth, Focus on the Family, or Scott Lively. All the same nonsense.

          I say again, Keith, you are suffering from a mental condition that includes obsessive homophobia that you need urgent treatment for before you cause some one harm.

          1. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:12pm

            Don’t ya just wish he could see what we all can see?
            -
            Gotta pity the creature…. I think.

        2. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:11pm

          New Low – what a piece of scum you truely are… and clearly desperate.
          -
          What us, not getting your quota for you brainwashing classes?

  19. I say, let Katter and Hagelin and all the other anti-gay idiots shout it from the rooftops; every time they open their mouths, they just show everyone how unbelievably stupid they are. Who could take a douche-bag like Hagelin seriously unless they were already of her deranged mindset? Let these losers hang themselves with their own arguments.

    1. Spot on! They do far more to help the cause when they open their mouths!

  20. terribly 70s feel to the argument

  21. douglas in Canada, quite right. One doesn’t have to be christian or subscribe to any religion to be moral and decent as as well have good values. We’ve all seen the hypocrisy of the religious nutters of almost all denominations preaching one thing and doing the opposite. Their obsession with gay matters, especially the sexual are more than revealing. No other group I know of behaves that way when it comes to gay sex. The more they rant, the more irrelevant and absurd they become. Totally irrational if you ask me.

  22. IT IS GOOD THAT THE RACIST IN CAMMERON, AUSRALIA, GOT A BIG SLAP IN THE FACE WHEN THEY WENT OUT AND TRIED TO RECRUIT MORE HATERS AND FOUND THAT THERE WHERE EVEN MORE PEOPLE AND FAMILIES AND EVEN MORE CHURCHES JOINING TOGETHER IN SUPPORT OF EQ;ULITY, AND HUMAN RIGHTS , ONLY A DEMON WHO IS POSSESSED CAN STAND BY AND WATCH CHILDREN AND WOMENS AND ELDERLY PEOPLE HURT HARMED BY MALICIOUSNESS, AND SPITE, AND NOT BE APART OF EQUALITY AND HUMAN RIGHTS MOVEMENT, YOU MUST SEE PEOPLE AS HUMAN BEINGS UNLESS THEY ARE TERRRIZINGA AND ASSAULTING OTHERS, AND TREAT ALL FAIRLY, AND CONGENIOAL , IF PEOPLE ARE BOTHERING YOU AND HARRASSING YOU DEAL WITH THAT INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP AS BAD PEOPLE , YOUR PEDIHPILIA DEFAMATING BIGOTS, ARE YOU YOUR HETERSEXUAL PRIMATES, CHECK YOUR NEWS AND NEWS PAPERS, FOOL , YOUR RAPPEST, AND INCESTERS, YOUR HETERSEXUAL, PRIMATES FOOL , WIFE BEATERS , THE COWARDS, HETERSEXUAL PRIMATES, FOOL, TELL IT TO SOMEBODY WHO IS BLIND AND CANT READ, TALK TO ANOTHER FOOL LIKE YOU DEFAMATOR,

    1. Don’t shout!

      1. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:12pm

        I’ve got a headache now.

  23. he got three daughter and now he’s finished molesting them he’s happy to give them (like property) to another abusing hetro to live out their days being raped by a bigoted husband – mmm yes please to marriage

  24. These people must catch up. This is the 21st century, and things are different now. Gay rights and gay or LGBT Marriage is/are vital and must be made into law as soon as possible. The sooner the Fundies et al take their heads out of their little sand box and look at the greater world and the needs of other people, the better the world will be. Until then the fight continues for our rights.

  25. Homosexuals and lesbiains should not be alllowed to marry, simple.

    1. Sorry Doug that you are going to have to watch, country by country, marriage equality eventuate. Hope you can cope and homophobia is treatable!

    2. Is simple your nickname Doug?

    3. You seem to imply that there is an implicent logic to your statement. This is not so, especially on a GLBT site. Either expand on your argument why marriage equality shouldn’t be allowed, and be prepared to defend your opinion, or accept that what you are arguing isn’t simple and your opinion is wrong.

      Either way, it has to be asked why you would come and make such a comment on a GLBT site other than you are a stupid troll. A stupid and cruel troll. I hope that you don’t call yourself christian because the christ I learnt about taught about loving your neighbour and welcoming all those who will join.

    4. Dr Robin Guthrie 17 Aug 2011, 9:35am

      And you Sir, should never breed.

      1. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:14pm

        Indeed, like we ain’t got enough problems.

    5. douglas in canada 17 Aug 2011, 3:22pm

      I know lots of heterosexuals that should never be allowed to marry, or at least they should never be allowed to breed and have offspring.

      How do we get a law for that?

    6. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:13pm

      Simple – oh like you then, Doug eh?

  26. Reportedly claimed that gay marriage would lead to paedophiles marrying children. – but what did they really say? I guess it doesn’t matter in the search for ‘homophobes’.

    1. Dr Herbert Shellface 17 Aug 2011, 1:05pm

      Are you suggesting this was misreported? If so what is your evidence?

  27. Gay Marriage blamed for UK riots:
    .
    Youtube:
    /watch?v=5YiAjEKy_F0

    1. The Tories are going to use the riots as justification against gay marriage. “Immoral and broken families” have already found its way into their narrative.

      1. I think its an arguement to let gay people have a bash at being married and raising kids… lets face it.. we cant do a worse job can we?! ;-)

        1. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:15pm

          Agreed, our kids would be far more stable. I know mine is.

    2. I am willing to bet that not one single rioter or looter was a gay man in a civil partnership – they have better things to do with their time than stealing bottles of water, bumper packets of basmati rice, children’s clothes, trainers or plasma TVs

      1. I would bet there were plenty of homosexuals and atheists in the rioting but few if any Christians .

        1. keith, I think you had better check your crime statistics because the jails of the world are FULL of heterosexual males. Most crimes ( do you want a list?) and wars on the planet are committed by HETEROSEXUAL males! By the way Christians and the churches have blood oozing all over , if you look at world history. Not a very pretty picture is the history of Christianity!

          1. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:18pm

            Correct, well put Brenton.

        2. My ex boyfriend was attacked by a group of baptists in South London.

          1. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:19pm

            Yep, same sh!t, different religion.

        3. Jock S. Trap 19 Aug 2011, 4:17pm

          Oh classic case of projection there eh, Keith. The LGBT community Unlike Christians tend not to take up arms and find killing instead of loving acceptable.
          -
          Dan is perfectly correct, thisis is a result of how bigots like Keith have brought up children.
          -
          Personally I think bigot parents should be banned.

  28. What can I do but… laugh… BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Seriously this is so ridiculous that trying to argue against it is almost as idiotic as the people involved. Saying that it will allow children to marry adults… nothing more needs to be said.

  29. Jock S. Trap 17 Aug 2011, 10:17am

    What a nasty bunch of bigots. They bring shame to all human beings.
    -
    Mind you it’s just typical of Religion to dictate how people should love and how wrong it is for some and not others.
    -
    With all the Wars in the world, mostly because of Religion may I add, two people loving each other really should be applauded not demonised.
    -
    Disgusting people.

  30. ““Gay is one of the most beautiful words … no-one should have the right to take that word off us.” 35 years or so ago I spoke at a Labour Party Conference fringe meeting and some old biddy asked the same thing. I said “what’s in a word” and it’s truly sad that, 35 years on, the same pathetic “they stole our word” line is being trotted out.

  31. If any group had used the Parliament House buildings as a platform against Jewish Australians or Aboriginal Australians using the same sort of hateful and extreme language and arguments as were used here, any politician in attendance would be out of their job tomorrow. What have we heard from the media here? – next to nothing. More to the point, what has our Prime Minister said – absolutely NOTHING! This is why I have stopped voting Labor.

  32. Filson who implies Jesus supports homosexuality..
    Jesus Christ declared that God’s Word is truth. (John 17:17) That means that he endorsed God’s view of homosexuality as described at Leviticus 18:22, which reads: “You must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.” Moreover, Jesus listed fornication and adultery among the “wicked things [that] issue forth from within and defile a man.” (Mark 7:21-23) The Greek word for fornication is a broader term than that for adultery. It describes all forms of sexual relations outside lawful marriage, including homosexuality. (Jude 7) Jesus Christ also warned his followers not to tolerate any professed Christian teacher who minimizes the seriousness of fornication.—Revelation 1:1; 2:14, 20.

    1. douglas in canada 17 Aug 2011, 3:25pm

      There is also the idea that if you want to get into heaven, you have to sell all you have and give it to the poor. I have yet to meet a christian who does this.

      Proof that they pick and choose bibel verses to suit their personal needs.

    2. Bilge, Keith. The ‘Word’ alluded to in John is an incarnation fo the divine, not a book; a Hellenistic notion not likely to be entertained by Jesus. Nothing can be inferred from this regarding his attitude to the Torah, which he famously said was made for Man, not the reverse, as his self-styled followers have tended to assume. St Luke even depicts him as praising the faith of a pagan Roman (not under Torah) against that of the Jews (who were). Whatever any Greek word for fornication may be taken to imply, it has little to do with Jesus, who almost certainly did not speak this language; and claiming anything in the bizarre, late ist century book of Revelation for him is ridiculous.
      In any case there is no reason why the sexual views of a weird ist century Rabbi who thought the world was going to end pretty soon should detain anyone, unless of course they hold mad supernatural beliefs about him which he in all likelihood would find offensive or incomprehensible.

    3. Bilge, Keith. The ‘Word’ alluded to in John is an incarnation fo the divine, not a book; a Hellenistic notion not likely to be entertained by Jesus. Nothing can be inferred from this regarding his attitude to the Torah, which he famously said was made for Man, not the reverse, as his self-styled followers have tended to assume. St Luke even depicts him as praising the faith of a pagan Roman (not under Torah) against that of the Jews (who were). Whatever any Greek word for fornication may be taken to imply, it has little to do with Jesus, who almost certainly did not speak this language; and claiming anything in the bizarre, late ist century book of Revelation for him is ridiculous.
      In any case there is no reason why the sexual views of a weird ist century Rabbi who thought the world was going to end soon should detain anyone, unless of course they hold mad supernatural beliefs about him which he in all likelihood would find offensive or incomprehensible.

    4. That just means you shouldn’t lie down with them at the same time. “As” = “when” . Anyway, Christianity ignores practically everything else in Leviticus. Most Christians read the Bible as evolving with society.

      If you read John, it looks very much as though he claims to have been Jesus’s boyfriend. Look at what he says they were doing at the last supper. They were lying together with his head on Jesus breast, inside his tunic.

      Er, don’t know if what you say about Revelation is the case, but what did Jesus have to do with Revelation? Nothing. It was one of many books of Revelation written years later, and it was written in a cave by someone out of their head, it’s just the only one of many of that type of writing that was chosen to be included in the Bible by the Council of Nicea in the 4th Century.

    5. jessica Lancaster 27 Nov 2011, 6:17am

      Keith Recent research on the Bible shows that, at the very least, the same-sex acts that are the focus of biblical concern were not what we mean by “homosexuality” today. Put the Bible back into its original cultural and historical setting, and it becomes blatantly obvious that the Bible conceived of the matter very differently in a very different world. Even more, this research shows that the Bible is basically indifferent to homosexuality in itself. The Bible is concerned, as with heterosexuality, only when practices violate other moral requirements….

      The Bible supplies no real basis for the condemnation of homosexuality. Therefore, people must stop opposing homosexuality merely by quoting the Bible because, taken on its own terms, the Bible simply does not support their case. If they have some other reason for their opposition, they ought to get clear what that reason is and state it up front.

      source http://www.visionsofdaniel.net/book3WBRS.htm

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