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Riot damage won’t stop Manchester Pride, organisers say

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  1. Androzani Miner 10 Aug 2011, 4:44pm

    Pride doesn’t start until 19th August, with the Big Weekend from 26th.

    1. AmericanHomo 11 Aug 2011, 8:06am

      Don’t post that! You’ll ruin the gay lefty fantasy that a “patriarchal” society is a bad thing.

      1. Erica Cart-Horse QC 11 Aug 2011, 10:57am

        I didn’t post that. Obviously you did.

    2. Wow you have managed to post an article based on mere assumptions and racism. Well done!!

      1. Paddyswurds 11 Aug 2011, 10:18am

        @Hamish……
        ….It the sort of attitude you espouse that has us in the pickle we currently find ourselves. There is absolutely nothing racist about the truth as i said on another thread. The pc brigade would like to have us think otherwise as it suits their agenda but lets not call a spade a fork. Anyone with at least one eye working at 50% capacity could see who the majority of the rioters and looters were over the last few days. Myers assumed nothing any more than the rest of us and certainly isn’t a racist and to say otherwise just means you are bereft of ideas for a suitale genuine response. Who the looters were was plain for all of us to see played out live 24/7 into our living rooms. I suggest you know what you are talking about before you make silly and unfounded accusations! In this case you clearly have been in hibernation over the last week.

        1. He assumes he knows there family status therefore that would make it an assumption, he also says the white people who started the riots (yes there was a large number of white people) were just joining in and then blames it all on immigration when there are many reasons for the problems we are currently seeing in this country sounds pretty racist to me.

        2. There is absolutely no evidence that the riots in any of the English cities are racially motivated in any sense. The clear, unequivocal and passionate comments of one of the fathers of the young men murdered in Birmingham are an example of the manner in which these matters should be viewed. Any attempt to demonise on the basis of race has similar destructive motivations to that of EDL tactics in Eltham and elsewhere.
          This is criminality – the cause is personal choice of the individuals taking part who must be robustly held to account for their actions. Equally, there are complex reasons for the social scenario whereby people of all ages feel legitimately able to carry out such acts – race is not one of them. In those areas such as Salford, Tottenham and Croydon where Afro-Caribbean people live are also homes to white and Asian people who also experience the same social issues and have reacted to these events.
          I hope Manchester pride goes ahead and applaud the organisers

    3. Erica Cart-Horse QC 11 Aug 2011, 10:22am

      This link ands post was not posted by me, but by the troll, presumably Pepa, still engaging in identity theft as he has no ethics whatsoever.

  2. While I applaud Manchester Pride’s decision to continue with their plans in the face of this madness – I just don’t understand the British government’s response to this. By now, in fact long before now, any U.S. state governor would have called out the National Guard to reinforce the police and maintain a curfew. Doesn’t the U.K. have something like that? Being from the U.S. I have a hard time understanding the U.K. political structure – even though it seems, at times, we’re both blessed with a plethora of idiots and jackasses at all levels.
    Somebody mind enlightening me on this?

    1. There is a feeling amongst some that too strong a show of force will damage already fragile race and community relations.

      There is also a school of thought that believes the authorities are too afraid of what some believe to be an increasingly litigious society (backed by the European Court of Human rights etc.) to call in the army/use water canons/use live ammunition.

      It depends on whether you read the Guardian or the Daily Mail.

      I personally believe that the right and the left have become too used to arguing with each other and blaming each other to effectively make a decision anymore.

      Whilst some are taking advantage of this and looting shops and businesses, a lot of ordinary people are suffering and in some cases dying and the poor police have been left with their fingers in the damn.

      1. Paddyswurds 11 Aug 2011, 9:49am

        @Joss…
        …”There is also a school of thought that believes the authorities are too afraid of what some believe to be an increasingly litigious society (backed by the European Court of Human rights etc.) to call in the army/use water canons/use live ammunition.”
        It didn’t stop them using the army, water cannon and rubber bullets in the north of Ireland.
        This whole mess is indicitive of the break down in family life. Feral kids and feckless parents…the Jeremy Kyle generation. Some of these kids have never used a knife and fork and think that a book is something the magistrate throws at you when you graduate to attending court. Bring back National Service and teach this scum some manners and respect. Another thing, can someone tell me how it is that 30% of English children can’t read or write when they leave school.. The teachers AND parents have a lot of questions to answer!

        1. Jock S. Trap 11 Aug 2011, 9:57am

          Agreed, totally along with discipline.

          Have to say though teachers and parents over the last 15 years have had lots of rights to do with respect and discipline taken away by the government which we are now seeing the results of.

          Having said that you only had to see on the news last night some of the parents arguing about their childrens rights to see a lot of the fault is upon just bad parenting, which is why I think some parents, particularly of the youngest should be in court as well.

          As one person said if you don’t have children learning the idea of respect for one another and everybody else by the age of 6 you sunk.

          Back to proper education with proper discipline is the answer with after school activities.

        2. The northern irish police force said they didn’t think water canons would be effective in uk cities such as London and Manchester because of the size of streets and prox to buildings etc. I don’t know I’m not an expert on canons but I respect the advise of people with first hand experience.

          There were also comments made about the potential of rubber bullets to maim and sometimes kill. I would expect maiming children would be quite controversial and since shooting a man was what started the whole bloody mess (even if it wasn’t what motivated the moronic looters) shooting more people seems counter productive.

          If the police had had more numbers the first night or if someone had done something about the crowd of angry people who were genuinely protesting about Duggan then we wouldn’t be discussing this.

          I wrote this on my phone appologies if it looks like a Carrie rant.

          Also I was just trying to express both sides of the argument for our American friend.

          1. Paddyswurds 11 Aug 2011, 10:38am

            @Joss…
            ….”If the police had had more numbers the first night or if someone had done something about the crowd of angry people who were genuinely protesting about Duggan then we wouldn’t be discussing this”.
            No I disagree, we wouldn’t discussing this if there was proper family control of children and teenagers, respect for the law, disipline and proper integration of the communities. Parents firstly must take the blame for wht happened in England over the last few days. Are you saying that young people should start looting and rioting everytime a thug gets taken out by the police. I hope not, otherwise all is lost.

        3. @Paddyswurds, Joss et al

          I think both Paddyswurds and Joss are right in different areas.

          Firstly, if there were better control, discipline and support (and they go together)of young people from both parents, other family members, teachers, society in general etc – the liklihood of this happening would be significantly reduced. That said, there will always be some bad people. We also need to acknowledge that some aspects of discipline have been eroded by restrictions and poor interpretation of restrictions placed on youth workers, teachers etc. In that sense Paddyswurds is correct this would not happen with greater responsibility.

          However, Joss is also correct about the tactics of water cannon etc not being appropriate for the geography of the riots that have happened – and given that the riots did happen that with extra numbers earlier there may have been greater ability to prevent loss of public order of a widescale earlier. I also agree that the police feel restricted.

          1. @Paddyswurds “No I disagree, we wouldn’t discussing this if there was proper family control of children and teenagers, respect for the law, disipline and proper integration of the communities.”

            I agree with this in no way do I condone the riots or the shocking parenting and I don’t have any sympathy for a man who had a handgun in his car and was subsequently shot in the head (whether it was in a sock or not).

            However if the initial crowd of people who did have a genuine and peaceful protest were not ignored for hours and if someone had addressed them and not left them there to stew amongst themselves then the riots would probably not have started.

            It’s not an excuse what happened afterwards, but in this country protests are usually high-jacked by thugs who burn things and cause trouble, so it makes sense to try and disperse large gatherings of people. Especially in neighbourhoods where there are already tensions building and community leaders have said/warned there will be riots.

    2. Scott

      There is a history in the UK of when the police call on the military to assist with public order something goes drastically wrong and damages the fabric of communities to a much worse extent and disproportionate to the problem it intends to solve eg Bloody Sunday etc

      Curfews are being imposed on those released on bail by the courts who have been charged with offences in relation to the disturbances.

      There has been some discussion of general curfews on a borough by borough basis, but this would require confirmation of emergency legislation and whilst not ruled out is not seen as a priority at this time as the riots have calmed over the past few days. Thats not to be complacent as they could erupt again, and this is one option that has been considered.

      The UK political system is complex. Police are independent of politicians and the operational responsibility (including decisions to bring in the military) are for the chief constable of the particular area though.

  3. The video footage of the poor young Malaysian man who was beaten by thugs supposedly ‘helping him’ will endure & for that reason alone I wouldn’t attend Pride.These knuckle-draggers will beat-up on ANYONE including the LGBT community and we will not be sufficiently protected.

    1. We will if we stick together. I’m pretty sure a gang of looters will run the other way if an entire Manchester pride chases them away.

      People should go, be safe and stick together. If there is any trouble (I should hope it will be settled by then) don’t walk through the city alone, stick with friends etc. and follow the advice of police.

      Cancelling Pride, sports events, etc. sends out the wrong message to the rioters that no one will stand up to them and makes them believe they have the power to do as they please.

      Plus, people need to show their support to the community by turning up and spending money to help the bars that suffered at the hands of the looters and boost the local economy.

    2. AmericanHomo 11 Aug 2011, 8:05am

      Don’t say that! you’ll ruin the gay lefty fantasy that gays are somehow united with the sentiments of the heroic rioters. Especially the non-white rioters.

      1. I don’t know anyone gay or straight who is united with the sentiments of the heroic looters. Maybe I don’t know enough stupid people…

        1. I have seen or heard no comments linking these distrubances to LGBT issues and any suggeston that they are is an anaethema to decent views

      2. Doesn’t this sound just like that troll Pepa!!

        1. Very much so

          If he tries to libel me or others using this handle then I will take the same action I have promised on other threads

          1. Well he got kicked off last time a change of name won’t protect him from the same treatment again.

          2. His petulent attempts to justify his vile actions will not protect him either

  4. Jock S. Trap 11 Aug 2011, 8:07am

    Excellent, this needs to happen to show people coming together and supporting the community and that we won’t be bullied into fear both for being LGBT and part of the whole community.

    1. It’s not about that- it’s about making money.

  5. AmericanHomo 11 Aug 2011, 8:40am

    Meanwhile, http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/might be helpful in nabbing some of these scumbags

    1. AmericanHomo 11 Aug 2011, 8:42am

      Sorry. Delete the “might” part.

  6. Paddyswurds 11 Aug 2011, 9:49am

    …”There is also a school of thought that believes the authorities are too afraid of what some believe to be an increasingly litigious society (backed by the European Court of Human rights etc.) to call in the army/use water canons/use live ammunition.”
    It didn’t stop them using the army, water cannon and rubber bullets in the north of Ireland.
    This whole mess is indicitive of the break down in family life. Feral kids and feckless parents…the Jeremy Kyle generation. Some of these kids have never used a knife and fork and think that a book is something the magistrate throws at you when you graduate to attending court. Bring back National Service and teach this scum some manners and respect. Another thing, can someone tell me how it is that 30% of English children can’t read or write when they leave school.. The teachers AND parents have a lot of questions to answer!

    1. Paddyswurds 11 Aug 2011, 9:50am

      ??????????

    2. In terms of water cannon the logistics of the current disputes are entirely different to those usually found in N Ireland disturbances. Water Cannon would be ineffective in the back streets of Manchester city centre as they would not be able to be targetted effectively

      1. Water cannons are only effective where people are trying to stand their ground. When people are running about all over the show, they’re of limited use.

        The difference with northern Ireland is that here those rioting usually do it to attack police. They gather, light fires etc and then wait for the police to come to them. In these situations, water cannons are useful I’m dispersing such crowds. And the crowds very rarely move too far, they all stay I’m they’re own areas largely.

  7. The fact that they call pride a business slightly worries me.

    Pride is there as part of our culture not to make money for anyone!!

    1. Paddyswurds 11 Aug 2011, 11:07am

      Still, it must pay it’s way. We can’t expect it to be paid for by the hardpressed taxpayers. So in that regard it certainly is a business.

      1. all other cultural festivals will be paid for mainly by the tax payer the council gives funding and also Manc pride does get funding anyway so surely it doesn’t need to make much extra money.

        1. But it needs to account for its use of funds and act in a business like manner – it must be accountable

        2. Hamish i beg to differ The grant that Manchester pride used to get has been cut ! GOOD

          Pride is a business it is heavely linked to Marketing Manchester It should pay for its self ?

          If you actualy look at the SMALL amount raised for charity This is NOT a charity fundraiser Even if they try to fool you into thinking it is

          Manchester has cut nearly all of its fundding to LGBT charitys you just have to look at LGYM (Lesbian Gay Youth movement) it has had ALL its funnding cut Manchester council should hang its head in shame

    2. Jock S. Trap 11 Aug 2011, 11:09am

      Depends Pride events are expensive things to organise and run. Your argument I would agree with for companies prehaps but not for the event itself.

      1. @Hamish

        Whilst I empathise with your perception of the use of the word business in connection with pride, I would state that most (if not all) major charities regard themselves as both third sector organisations that serve the communities (or aspects of communities) but also see themselves as being a business and needing to operate to business principles to ensure efficiency and effectiveness

    3. @Hamish, Pride is no longer part of the community. It is a business, it’s run by the council. The tourist board make a huge amount of money from it. Less than 12% goes to charity. The community has NOTHING to do with the way Manchester Pride works. Time to do something about it?

  8. I want to thank everyone who took the time to give me their thoughts and input. Obviously, from some of your comments, the news coverage hasn’t been the best over here – there’s been no discussion of the causes of the riots, aside from the police shooting of some “man.” There’s been no details, but LOTS of video of the looting. Typical American journalistic sensationalism, in other words, but no depth, investigation, or real analysis.
    As for the rest – like my Gram used to say, “don’t feel pregnant.” The U.K. is not alone in the bad parenting, and hyper-litigious arenas. The U.S. gave the world “Octo-mom”, remember? As for our court system, our national motto should be changed to: “America, land of the Fee and home of the Naive.”

    1. If you’re interested in balance you might also want to read a rag like the Dailymail. Don’t stay on their website too long you might lose some brain cells.

      Please also know that although England is small compared to the US there is a big difference between the cities where the riots took place and since our media is very London centric this may not come across.

      The riots in London are slightly different to the riots in Manchester and the riots in Manchester are different again to the ones in Liverpool etc. etc. etc.

  9. Its up to the Police if it goes ahead. After what happened I would be very wary of going to it, no matter if its policed.

    1. I think if the streets remain safe it would be more damaging to society not to try to continue as normal, yes be cautious and aware of safety, but to allow the looters and thugs to win is wrong

    2. I was fortunate enough to be in the UK for Manchester Pride last August, Frankly anyone concerned about their safety mustn’t have been at Manchester Pride! Witnessing the two by two police officer presence in the village over the 4 days of Pride I would be more concerned about how they were going to police any riots/looting that broke out in Manchester during Pride without having to make a strategic police withdrawal from the Village.

  10. Of course Manchester City Council won’t stop Pride. It makes them millions of pounds, meanwhile the village is the most violent area in Manchester.

  11. genius

  12. aaaannnd breeeeeathe!

  13. Jock S. Trap 11 Aug 2011, 8:08am

    I’m knackered!

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