We need more LGBT characters on TV, not less. Keep it up, Russell T and the BBC.
Wasn’t gay enough for me
I personally think that the straight sex scene was only added to balance out the gay scene…to avoid upsetting anyone who’s straight because THAT sex scene made no sense! Where did this relationship with Rex and Vera appear from?
The straight sex scene definitely had a point, from what I’ve heard, but to say more would be a spoilerG
Maybe they were using the word “gay” like teenagers do — you know, as in saying the show is lame, stupid, boring, etc. If so, I’d have to agree with them. On the other hand, if they mean there’s too much homosexuality being shown, hogwash! One ten-second sex scene (nice butt though!) and a few taunts from Jack at Rex about his orientation is all I’ve seen so far. So why didn’t anyone complain back when Jack and Ianto were banging each other in front of Gwen?!
Be fair – they cut parts of a gay sex scene and parts of a straight sex scene, in the same episode.
Thats not what I understood. From what I read they cut parts of the gay sex scene and some other violence – I don’t recall reading anything about them cutting parts of the str8 sex scene though
they only cut the straight sex scenes to show that they treating them the same, but neither we’re any more explicit than the BBC or any other UK tv company has shown in the past.
The scene between Owen Harper and Diane in series one ‘Out of Time’ was by far more explicit than either of the two scenes! And it went on far longer too!
BBC had better get the lead out of their asses and get a clue, more than half of this nation and other countries are gay families, you had better remember that, there needs to be more gay characters, and movies and series for the gay children and adults and gay elderley, did you think that the gay people wanted to stare into the faces of marriages andn relationships everyday that did not represent them , they pay for cable their fore your pay checks as well, you damn well had better get gay actor and actresses as well, and gay writers if you cannot get a clue on your own, but there is more people in the world besides your asses,
Ditto ditto ditto!!! Like I said in mine maybe we should start complaining about all the straight content!
Think about the number of broadcast hours annually screened by the BBC across the channels, then consider the percentage of those hours that have GLBTQ characters or interest. Then consider the percentage of GLBTQ people in the country. We are VASTLY under-represented. Good grief, the BBC has whole channels for people who happen to speak minority languages! I am sure there are more GLBTQ people who pay the licence fee than the number of people who tune in to BBC Alba! – Now, we were told when we complained about Stephen Green being used to comment on Elton John’s surrogacy that the BBC did NOT respond to organised campaigns of complaint. Anyone else suspect that the “too gay” complaining over Torchwood, Eastenders, Holby City etc are utterly orchestrated and should likewise be dismissed?
And apologies for the wall’o'text. Attempts to format always seem unsuccessful…
That’s because Pink News uses some cheap (read: “low functionality + high sticker/maintenance cost) out-of-the-box text tool for their comment board. In one way I can understand the choice of something this limited – it keeps the board relatively clean, and free from people using Bold, Italics, or colors & strike-throughs to “scream” and rant.
Best comment so far…Sauce for the goose etc. At a time when social attitudes are very much in a state of flux, it is vital for institutions such as the BBC to be scrupulously even-handed in their handling of these attitudes. If people know Jack Harkness is what he is and they don’t like it, don’t watch the bloody programme! There is more than enough non-Jack Harkness broadcast material to satisfy the most entrenched bigots.
If they don’t like it they can always use the off button!
Amazing that a handful of BBC bigots can censor what is fit for viewing. If there had been NO straight sex scenes, they still woud have cut out the gay part deemed inappropriate, whatever that means. As if underage teenagers aren’t having sex these days behind their parents’ backs. The BBC’s hypocrisy is mind-boggling. If people don’t like something they see, change the channel, nobody is forcing them to watch anything that offends them. Censorship is absurd and oppressive, undemocratic.
Clearly these people have nothing better to do. If they don’t like it, it’s simple, watch something else.
Am I watching the same series?
Yeah, that’s sorta my reaction– and I’m watching it in the US on cable. The gay sex scene was hot, but I’m surprised anyone felt a need to censor it. There was some side but, a lot of groans, and some fairly athletic thrusting.
Yeah, and that was the STRAIGHT sex… most of what we got from the Gay scene was lascivious facial expressions and one shot of the bartender’s (very pretty) bubble butt.
I’m from the U.S. as well, and I’ve never understood the BBC leadership. Even here, on BBC America you can see the warped “thinking”(?) behind their programming decisions.
As much as I’m enjoying Torchwood, the “gayness” does seem excessive, like they’re bringing it up because they can, not because it’s important to the plot. Gone are the days of Torchwood presenting sexuality in a mature way. I want DECENT portrayals of LGBT people on TV and Captain Jack has become yet another bloody stereotype. He’s gone from being a well rounded, intelligent character to a penis with legs. That kind of view of us is only harmful.
And John Barrowman can kiss my arse with all his bluster about the sex scene being important to the plot. It was POINTLESS. All it did was act as a meaningless visual repeat of information the audience had already been given, that the character is the last mortal man and thus is enjoying his limited time. Barrowman needs to get over himself.
All that said, I’ve seen the original scene and it was well-shot and tasteful, just pointless to the plot. And a show like Torchwood should be about the plot, not Jack’s penis.
What excessive gay content? There isn’t any? Did you find the sexual; content in series 1, 2 and 3 pointless too?
If the gayness is NEVER mentioned, if Jacks sexuality NEVER brought up then what is the point of telling people he’s bi-sexiual if there is never any sign of it! No matter what is happening in life sex is part of it. The scene was not offensive if anything it was less offensive than the scene in series one between Owen and Diane…
When ever a sexual scene has been written into Torchwood there has been a point to it…so I’ll be going with that myself.
I didn’t say the sex scene was offensive, I said it was pointless – and it was. I actually enjoyed the overt sexuality in past Torchwood’s because it was used as a metaphor to explore other matters (like Buffy used the highschool as hell metaphor). The new series has thrown that aside in favour of stupid gags, sex-scenes for the hell of it (plot be damned – and I feel the same about the straight sex scene they included).
Where has the intelligent Torchwood gone? You know, the one with great writing, human characters and clever plots and metaphors? Cos this sure ain’t it. All we have now are caricatures of great characters.
Jack was always sexual (something I loved about him), but that excessive sexuality was used to explore him and his personality. Now it’s just an excuse to get Barrowman to whip his kit off (not a bad thing, if it was the JB Naked Show, but it’s Torchwood).
Phoenix, I think it’s pretty obvious you have issues of your own. There’s no reason for this much ranting about the sexuality in TMD, considering there’s only been one episode with any overt sexual content – and extremely tame at that. Take a breath, and quit cranking yourself up over things that don’t exist.
As for the “intelligent” Torchwood – have you been paying any attention at all? Have you completely ignored the message behind the demon-made-hero theme, or the corporate greed and culpability theme, or what about the lost humanity of the “overflow camp” device (remember your WWII history, Phoenix?). There’s also the exploration of what it means to be “immortal” vis-a-vis the undying who bear their wounds and continue in pain. Have you also entirely missed the slow, painful evolution of our two C.I.A. agents? They’re in the $hit, completely over their heads, and both are coming to terms with it in their own ways. Yeah, dumb huh?
Seems someone didn’t read all my comments. I am actually ENJOYING MD – I stated that in another comment. I have referenced the sexuality primarily because that is the focus of the article! Yeesh
The story is intelligent, but the characters no longer are, especially Gwen and Jack, both of whom are caricatures of their former selves.
And nice attempt at a snide personal attack, but I have no issue with my bisexuality, but I’m thinking you might if you react like this to someone who isn’t fawning all over TW just because it’s got gays in it. MD is good, make no mistake, just not Firefly good.
You might as well argue that any sex of any kind is pointless! Its your opinion, but it succs.
Pardon me for not falling at the feet of R.T. Davies like most people. And pardon me for wanting decent portrayals of LGBT people on TV, not the tired old stereotype MD is turning Captain Jack into. Jack was once the single best queer character on our screens, with MD he’s at risk of becoming a joke.
Ridiculous comment. I for one agree with Phoenix, I have no issue with gay themes or scenes in movies or TV but feel that the sex scenes in MD are included to try and appeal to a gay audience rather than have any relevance to the story, it’s like the BBC are trying to gain the gay viewership at re sake of a coherent plot.
As for the straight sex scene this was blatantly put in to attempt to balance the other scenes (which they haven’t)
Torchwood has ALWAYS been about the excessive sex, though. The main appeal of Torchwood is that it’s a darker, sexual, more mature version of Doctor Who with many hypersexual characters. Owen could very well be considered a sex addict, and he was straight. He doesn’t give give straight men a bad name. Captain Jack’s OMNIsexuality has been widely played on with Torchwood, even referring to Jack’s having sex with aliens, not just other men so he cannot possibly be giving gay men a bad name.
I’m not entirely sure what you mean by Torchwood “presenting sexuality in a mature way” in past episodes. Were you watching the same ones I was? Captain John Hart expressed sexual desires for a POODLE, Toshiko shagged just about every alien she came across, an alien addicted to orgasmic energy was let loose on Cardiff, Ianto and Jack frequently played ‘Naked Hide and Seek,’ and the list of “immature” sexual innuendos from the past goes on and on.
Previously, the sexuality was raised in a way that fleshed out and developed the characters – look at seasons 1, 2 and 3 of Torchwood. Although a very sexual show (and something I applaud it for), the sexuality on display was always to serve the plot and/or character growth.
You cited the alien that fed on orgasmic energy, which is an interesting example as the ‘sex gas’ is a prime example of what I was talking about. The creature in the episode is a direct metaphor for sexual predators and how to deal with them. This is a far cry from the current trend in Torchwood of sex for sex’s sake. That’s what made it so compelling – it was Natural Sexuality that was displayed and explored by the show.
Miracle Day has thrown that away in favour of shoe-horning constant, stupid, inane gay gags (“do you make everything around you gay?” Really? That’s cracking dialogue Davies, truly cracking) into the show and transforming Jack from a sexual character into a sexual caricature.
I agree with you. You’re right, most of the past sexual references were to make a point in TW but there were a few that some could consider unnecessary. I guess I don’t really mind all the sex jokes thrown about because I’m used to it as a high school student, but I can see where some people might find it distracting.
If the show had established a record of language like that, it wouldn’t be so jarring. But those high-school level gags stand out like a sore thumb when compared to earlier Torchwood seasons.
Don’t get me wrong, I am actually enjoying TW – even this version of it is far superior than anything else on TV at the moment. It’s just… it pales in comparison to the first three series. They seem to have replaced characterisation with sexualisation, sadly.
As an aside, depending on your POV of the very first episode, Owen is arguably a rapist so I’d say that he doesn’t actually do great things for the image of straight men.
Hm! there were 25 complaints over the gay kiss on the BBC I wonder if there will be 25 complaints over Torchwood? Let me think! maybe it is the same 25 organized people who seem to complain to the BBC every time there is some thing gay on TV. Could it even be the same 25 that complain to Ofcam each time they consider there to be a breach of the watershed?
I wonder how many complaints there are about straight sex scenes and kisses!? Fools!!!
Captain Jack is just Captain Jack. It’s like saying a TV show is “too straight” – WTF?
Maybe we should start complaining to the BBC about all the offensaive staright sexual content and see if they issue such a staement that they’ve had some complaints from the LGBT community about it!
Personally I find the statement VERY offensive!
As it has been said we need more LGBT content, not less!!!
Exactly. I don’t like watching straight sex but I realise many people do. I’m sure some of these complainants had a bit of an agenda.
Exactly – imagine if we all started complaining to Ofcom that the vast majority of TV programmes were “too straight”? It’s like complaining to say there are too many non-white characters in Eastenders, when in actual fact the majority of characters are white. It’s VERY offensive.
You know what it is Straight Sex is ok to show on TV but even a Gay Kiss is now being moaned about and asked to be cut out of a TV programme. If there going to Ban Gays Kissing and making love on TV then its about time that anything loving, relationship and sexual for Straights, Bisexuals and Gay is removed off Television as its clearly discrimination in favour of Heterosexual community. All they think we are perverts and we get treated as the real minority in this country even lower than the Ethnic Community.
Couldn’t agree more!
I second that!
It’s not too gay, it’s too slow. I wonder why the BBC is putting out this story?
I agree. I never thought I’d link the words ‘Torchwood’ and ‘tedious’ but, wow, does it drag. The writing is patchy, the plot is so derivative, the characters are unbelievable – even Jack and Gwen seem to have changed – and the whole thing could have been wound up in half the episodes.
I think the BBC will get far more complaints about the butchering of a great, quirky programme than the gay sex.
Absolutely agreed. I was so looking forward to this series having been glued to the previous ones. But now?….. Can’t be bothered. Boring, americanised, air-brushed rubbish. Gay/straight/whatever sex, who cares. Its all crap.
Slower than the first series of Heroes?
the first series was the best, it wasn’t slow anyway as it was a very interesting season, until the second season which was a complete shambles
Because their pandering to these homophobic numpties!!! Very sad in my opinion!
It cracks me up, rioting, looting and the like so lets complain that Torchwood is too gay. Some people really do need to sort out their priorities
For those interested, the cut sex scene from ‘Torchwood: Miracle Day’ Episode 3 ‘Dead Of Night’ has been FULLY RESTORED and is available to download from iTunes. Presumably the DVD version will follow suit.
There was much straight sex in The Hour last night, perhaps it was it too straight.
I didn’t object to seeing a quick flash of Dominic West thrusting naked atop of Romola Garai.
Maybe it is time to start writing to all shows that they are to straight. Every time we turn around, there are straight couples holding hand, kissing, and a lot of straight sex scenes. I mean, every show that I watch seems to be shoving all of that down our throats.
What I usually do when it gets to ‘straight’ for me is to turn away, stop watching, or turn the channel.
I actually thought once Torchwood went to the United States, it would get dumbed down and lose its edginess, I guess I’m wrong. I think all of the mixtures, whether race related or sexual preferences add to the shows uniqueness. If they wanted to make Torchwood gay, they would have called it Touchwood. For the record, I’m only on season 2 episode 8 (where Edwin dies).
I’m up for complaining to the BBC they’re too straight :)
I don’t think its gay enough given the publicity we
had before it started about that issue. But WHY is anyone who is offended by gayness watching Torchwood anyway? It’s obviously not for them. This is nonsense.
Not gay enough for me either. Why doesn’t the BBC mention all the complaints they had about the sex scene being cut?
Folks, if TW is too gay for you, don’t watch it. Seempulz
I loved that the gay sex scene was cut together with an interracial sex scene– another behavior that was illegal in about half the US until the courts intervened a few years ago. I was proud of the producers for making that analogy.
They cut gay sex scenes and still homophobes still think a show is too gay. :( I want more gay sex on tv. Involving barrowman ^^ capt. Jack
Gay people seem to always be portrayed as either sexless or “raunchy sex crazed” on television and film; and NOTHING in between.
I think both depictions serve to promote problematic gay stereotypes. The stereotype that gay people are about nothing but sex (and promiscuous, wildly adventurous sex at that), and the stereotype that gay affection should be kept out of sight of “normal” people, children and horses.
Why not more depictions of regular gay people who have full lives, which include the occasional roll in the hay? And then a few wildly promiscuous, adventurous ones on the side for some extra spice. You know, the way straight people are portrayed.
I wonder what the daily mail were more upset about. 2 men having sex or a black man and hispanic woman having sex!
I’d also like to point out that England is now on the receiving end of the American Fundamentalist Christian industry.
This has been going on in America for decades. I hope England will wise up before these puritans are allowed to screw things up over there like they have over here.
The people complaining to the BBC for Torchwood have most likely NEVER seen a SINGLE episode of the show. They are people who go to fundamentalist websites and people who listen to “Christian” radio and TV where they are regularly given marching orders to complaint bomb this station for this gay offense and that station/company/government body for that gay offense. The people march right off and follow orders complaining about TV programs that they’ve NEVER seen.
It’s was VERY effective in scaring everyone out of positively portraying anything gay in America for decades but it is just now starting to lose its grip, just a tiny bit.
So ridiculous. They know the character is bisexual. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it darlings. Flip through your Mary Whitehouse scrapbook or something.
What gay sex scene?, there wasnt much of it to see (although I wasnt complaining mind). but I think the only thing that people should be complaining about this new series of Torchwood is that its extremely mind numbingly boring & very confusing so far, very disapointing & I hope it gets better by the episode five tomorrow night. in terms of the action scenes, but in my opinion I think Torchwood series 2 is the best series of Torchwood.
We need to learn something from the complainants. We need to get organised.
Insterd of making equations between gay and straight sex scenes, we just ought to ask for more gay sex scenes and oppose their censorship.
As Lord Reith said, the purpose of the BBC is to inform, EDUCATE and entertain.
There’s plenty of emotional and occasional physical education about sex on the BBC, but very little about gay sex.
Can you imagine the BBC’s response if they received more complaints about the lack of gay sex rather than about the amount of it.
We need to seriously change the way we think about this kind of thing, lads and lasses.
Jack Harkness is NOT bisexual. Jeez.
technically omnisexual, since he doesn’t restrict himself to humans. But for the sake of debate amongst a human population where most don’t think aliens are real, bisexual is the best term. Few are aware of pansexual.
Is it not technically correct to refer to him as bisexual? Of course. Does it make it easier for others to identify his identity? Yep. And that’s what the creators want and need.
they SAY he’s omnisexual but the only relationships we’ve SEEN are gay ones. Not that I’m complaining!!!
How many complaints were actually recieved about this issue and how many does it need for the BBC to issue statements? Why don’t they just tell people who complain to stop whinging?
AFter all, it was well publicised as having gay content. If you sit on a bench with a big wet paint sign next to it and ruin your clothes whose fault is it?
That WAS me. not sure why I acquired a strange nickname there.
We’ve seen him flirt with both sexes and aliens, kiss Rose and the Doctor, he has a daughter and had a grandson. The characters omnisexuality is established quite readily. True, the actual relationships we have seen have been same-sex, but sexuality is more than who we sleep with and Jack’s sexuality is quite blatantly open. There’s a seen in MD, after he has slept with the barman, where he is on the phone to Gwen and seems to be indicating a strong attraction to her and a desire for her, professionally and personally.
Too gay? TV is too straight.
I think I might cut my BBC License fee to reflect what I think it is worth as a gay viewer
The best response/reaction would be to take five mins to log on to the BBC commets/complaints site and submit a message in support of the show and the relevant scenes. The BBC will find it much easier to defend their position and slap down the bigots if they can state that they’ve received numerous comments supporting the programme. It acts as an antidote to the idiocy.
Tjhe point is, people always react when they don’t like something and ring up and complain; but how many ring up when they DO?
The only way to counteract this handful of people is to do just that. If there are more pluses than minuses, then then naysayers will be ignored.
The sex, gay or otherwise, is just right in Torchwood and is part of the Torchwood ethos. Pleople who do not like it, go and watch something else.
As I stated above, my sole problem with the sex isn’t the sex itself, but that it’s there for no reason at all. Despite Barrowman’s claims, it doesn’t forward the plot. In past TW’s, the sex featured has always either forwarded the plot or served to develop the character: as someone said, Owen’s actions in the pilot could be seen as rape – this easily and, importantly, emotionally told us everything we needed to know about him in a powerful way that grabs the audiences attention. The “sex gas” in episode 2 allowed exploration of sexual predators and so on.
The sex always had a larger purpose for forwarding the story. In MD, so far, it hasn’t. I WANT the sex in TW to continue, but I want it to continue in the way established, forwarding plots and characters. In MD it hasn’t done that at all, existing only for the sake of existing.
I tend to agree with you, but I think the problem is the crappy plot. That, in my opinion, is what possibly makes the sex scenes seem ‘without reason’. I could say that about so many things in this Torchwood. I don’t get the impression of any of them as living, breathing characters at all, and that’s why, I think, the sex seemed pointless.
Even in the weirdest moments of previous Torchwood epsiodes, I’ve been totally ‘there’ in the action, believing in it and the people, but in TMD I feel I could be watching anything and the characterisation seems so weak. Sort the writing and the plot and then the same sex scenes would seem more relevant, more integrated, I think.
I hate to semi-agree but Jack always used to flirt with guys and gals but if you didn’t know that you would assume he was gay. It was nice to have a bisexual character for a change. I also get annoyed at the ‘don’t like it, change the channel’ attitude – I want to watch a sci-fi thriller, not explicit, pointless sex scenes, there are plenty of other places I can watch those!
So true Vic, in this series, other than the hints he has developed feelings for Gwen there is almost no clue to Jack’s real sexuality. As I have stated before (and got lambasted for!) I simply want the sex in TW back to how it used to be, used for forwarding the plot and characters – not just there to titillate the audience.
I wonder how many of the comments started with “You’ve made Torchwood far too gay”, and ended with “It’s a misrepresentation of the character – he’s pansexual, not gay. You’ve defied canon”.
Heh Krissie, maybe we should start a counter-complaint surge along these lines, to show the beeb that there is an audience for shows that include sexualities other than heterosexuality.
Can we make complaints that most television is too str8? Just askin’
I imagine we can…but I bet it wouldn’t get the publicity these ‘few’ homophobic idiots have got!
Tell me, was this the show that showed a woman being incinerated?
I can’t help feeling some folk out there have got a strange set of priorities about what to get worked up about
As sentient beings we have the right to not only get worked up, about anything we choose, but part of self discovery comes from surrounding yourself with things you like, agree with, but also from discovering and examining things you don’t like. “We learn more from what we don’t like”
First off, this is fantasy. But in the real world stuff like burning alive and gay love happen so we come here to discuss things and bounce opinions off each other in that journey of self discovery. Balancing, and sometimes adjusting our opinions based on the rebound we get of our opinions off other people.
The problem I, like most have, isn’t the man on man love going on, but the appearance of pushing a gay agenda on a great character that isn’t actually gay.
If you thought the burning of the ” woman ” , that was a strong take charge educated person went too far, feel free to explain why at least.
Because in the context of the story and characters made sense and fit in the context of the show.
Anyone who wants the show to be more gay is a complete ass.
First of all Jack isn’t gay at all.
He’s a complete whore that will have sex with men, women, aliens of any kind, but some homo-erotic fantasies of certain writers or producers have been pushing their gay agenda in the series to a point that will kill this series dead.
Which really sucks because for the most part this has been a darker, well written show, except for the middle couple of episodes that where week on dialogue and dragged because of it.
I DON’T PERSONALLY CARE IF HE HAS GAY RELATIONSHIPS IN THE COURSE OF THE SERIES, BUT THIS OBVIOUS PUSH FOR THE GAY COMMUNITY IS GETTING OLD, FAST.
Oh I’m on a gay news site… wondered why the opinions were so out of touch.
lol as a gay man I totally agree… people seem to forget this a just after watershed BBC 1 prog. Gay men (and also women to a lesser extent) are massively over represented in BBC management, public sector bodies and even parliament. This is not censorship this is about making gay story lines accessible to a wider audience (and there’s far more gay sex than straight in Torchwood!). If you want to watch Gay porn there’s plenty of it out there!
Well, i am a straight man, and i have no issue with same sex relationships in the media or on tv, but i just dont see the need for it in torchwood, as it doesnt really add to the story? And its the same for the straight sex scenes yes they ground out the characters but in a sci fi series? Ummm shouldnt the basis of the story be enough. And i dont mean dont have it in there i mean just dont spend so long on it. And that stands for both straight or gay relationships.
It is ok if they want to make a gay character in the series just don’t show me two men necking it makes me want to hurl. Not entertaining.