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Israel LGBT youth conference cancelled

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  1. Shameful news – gay people joiining in the demonization of the one place in the whole Middle East where gay people enjoy equal civil rights. Concern about the “boycott” law? What about concern about Palestinian gays seeking asylum in Israel from the persecution visited on them in the PA?

    1. Ooer missus 5 Aug 2011, 5:07pm

      What is this boycott law?

      1. If those Palestinians weren’t (in many cases) ethnically cleansed from 78% of their own homeland in 1948, and still excluded from it on the basis of their ethnicity, that wouldn’t exactly be a concern, now would it, Clive?

        1. You do realize that most of the palastiniens came from Jorden and Egypt right? just few of them lived in Jaffa and Aco..(Israelis cities). They left (or chased away, same thing in my opinion) their houses as part of the indipendence war of Israel, after the UN decided to devide 2countries. The arab countries around israel, and the palastiniens rejected it, and attacked Israel. So you could look at it as if they chased themselves out of their homes.. If the arab countries wouldnt have attacked Israel in 1948, we could have peace right now, and 2 bordered clearly defigned countries, and not even 1% would have left their houses…
          so stop living in a bubble and deal with it, its all part of war. (If you remmember, the USA was built over the murder of Indians and they chased them away from their houses… and so other countries.. but unlike the Indians, palastinians had the chance and free choice to aknowlege 2 countries, but they rejected it, and started a killing spree).dont be hypocrit

        2. An Cat Dubh 9 Aug 2011, 2:58pm

          If by ‘many’ you mean ‘very few’, by ‘homeland’ you mean ‘usually the place they went to as work immigrants because the Jews gave them jobs’, and by ‘ethnicity’ you mean ‘potential threat that has blown up in Israel’s face more than once’, your argument makes just a bit more sense, as other Muslim peoples have never been through that and are still scarily homophobic.

  2. Ooer missus 5 Aug 2011, 5:06pm

    Israel has a reasonably good record on human rights, particularly compared to it’s neighbours, but surely an international conference has to be held somewhere all the delegates feel comfortable attending?

    1. Ooer missus 5 Aug 2011, 5:08pm

      Typo, I meant gay rights.

    2. “somewhere all the delegates feel comfortable attending” hmmm … like the United States, maybe – with their superior record of gay rights and equality? HIV persons not being allowed to enter? and stuff like that, you mean?

    3. @Ooer missus

      Entirely sensible premise that a global conference should be held where delegates feel comfortable eg perhaps not in Kabul.

      That said, whilst Israel has some very good records on human rights and in particular LGBT rights its entire record on human rights is at best mixed

  3. The boycott law isn’t right, but I don’t think it alone should stop this whole conference from going forward in Israel. It’s not fair on the Israeli LGBT community, it’s not their fault the boycott law exists.

    Whether this should be supported or not depends how the Israeli LGBT community feel about this, if they support IGLYO’s concerns over the law, then the withdrawl could be justified. Otherwise this just discriminates on the Israeli LGBT community because they’re Israeli.

  4. Bloody jews and muslims. Will they ever stop arguing? Jeez.

    1. Jock S. Trap 7 Aug 2011, 10:27am

      Same could be said about Catholics and Protestants.

      It’s just bloomin religion doing what it does. Can’t have any love mind, that would be wrong… apparently!

      1. Exactly. Same should be said about caths and proddies. Look at northern ireland. but this is about muslims and jews. they’re all the bloody same. stupid brain dead religious zombies.

      2. The difference between Israelis and Palestinians and eg Irish Catholics and Protestants that I perceive (from personal experience and reading various accounts) is that whilst you could empathize with the sadness, loss and distress of both a Catholic or Protestant family in Ireland who had a family member murdered by terrorism and then when you discussed a family who had lost someone in the other community they would have some understanding of a similar emotion, if you try to get a Palestinian to undertand Israeli emotional loss or vice versa they fail to understand the human element on the other side.

  5. What a fantastic message that sends out to the only country in the Middle east with a positive gay rights record. How about Saudi Arabia?

    1. israel a country that deny democracy to others, and then bragg about how they are the only democracy in region

      1. Aye, sorry I missed your comment man. You get these zionist sympathisers, who turn a blind eye to settlement building and such-like to extoll the virtues of Israeli “democracy” when the israeli state has laid an illegal siege, constituting an ongoing warcrime, on Gaza, for exercising its democratic will. Hamas might be vile, but the people voted for them. Israel didn’t like it, so decided that crimes against humanity were the way to go.

        1. Christine Beckett 6 Aug 2011, 10:19am

          Again, wow….

          So let me see.

          In one corner we have a flawed, often unpleasant but essentially democratic country, that allows a fair degree of gay rights, and in the other corner we have a bunch of undemocratic nations, ruled according to barbaric laws laid down by bronze-age religious nutters, and inhabited in the main by folk would quite happily stone people like you and me to death.

          And you choose to support the people who would kill you? There’s a thin line between being naive and being bloody stupid, and that crosses it.

          And the implication that, in comparison to Israel, those Arab nations are all saints who abide by accepted standards of human rights, is just utterly fantastic. They do not DO human rights in those nations, even on a basic level. I doubt you would enjoy being a woman in Egypt, or Syria, or Jordan, or Saudi.

          chrissie

          1. yup “again” hear, hear @chrissie

          2. “And you choose to support the people who would kill you? ”

            Why would palastinian queers want to kill EwanS?

          3. Once again showing the perpetual persecution complex of the pro-zionist mob. The “with us, or with the evil arabs” mentality. I’m an anarchist hen, I despise all states, whether jewish or arab. You charactarise the israeli state as “often unpleasant, but essentially democratic.” this is a lie, and not even a very good one. Israel has a far right government that is in a process of forcibly removing people from their homes to give it to people of another race….the Israeli government are a fascist one, and sham, bourgeois “democracy” does little to counter this fact.

        2. DJ Sheepiesheep 8 Aug 2011, 12:09am

          Yes, settlements are wrong and Israel should return to its pre 1967 borders. However, israel’s interest in Gaza would appear to be about ten indiscriminate shelling of towns that are well within those borders. Palestinians could truly claim the moral high ground when they (1) acknowledge Israel’s right to exist within its pre 1967 borders, (2) give up violence, and (3) recognize the rights of all people including women and LGBT folk.

  6. Of course, they have a a reasonable gay rights record. This completely excuses the states tendancy to rain white phospherous down on innocent children, conduct medieval sieges and commit cultural genocide. Let the self-congratulatory back-slapping comense.

    1. Oh give us a breake already… were talking about encoraging gay rights… Indeed Israel has some serious fixing to do about civil rights… but who are you to judge if your not living there? knows how its like to feer to go to school in a bus that hopfully wont blewup as a palastinian woman boards on it? Yes we live a paranoic life, Yes were afraid for our own life and make others misrble to make sure we wont die. Is this the way? NO hell its not.. but againe, were trying to fix that and find other solutions, its not easy though..And who said a country doesnt have the right to build a fence (Yes a fence since 90% of the “wall” is actually a fence!) around it’s borders and not to let anyone in? BLAH im dragging myself down with you in this conversation… So I Wont and stop here… basically, im just gay who happns to be Israeli and wants GAY RIGHTS everywhere, thats it.

      1. ” … And who said a country doesnt have the right to build a fence (Yes a fence since 90% of the “wall” is actually a fence!) … ”

        Basicaly the whole world … or at least when we’re talking GDR.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall

        But ofcourse it makes a huge difference, if one gets shot dead at a wall or a fence.

        1. LOL gdr xD , hey even china has it’s own wall!
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_China
          just joking..

          It makes a different if that person was innocent or not..
          People get shot near these small areas on rare occations,and mostly its because they tried to put a bomb near it. Dont think that the order of shooting comes easily… you must have a proven fact that that person did sabotage Israel’s security.

          Be reall ok? no its not ok when a person shot to death, neither over a fence or wall…
          But what will you do to protect, not even yourself, but your family from a sueside bomber?

    2. An Cat Dubh 9 Aug 2011, 3:00pm

      Yes, because the Goldstone report and the bollocks some hot-headed Muslims feed you is 100% true.

  7. Rich (original) 6 Aug 2011, 12:36am

    That’s for good. All homo-events should be cancelled everywhere!

    1. Hen, you’re on here all the time, spouting bile. You need a good stiff cock up your arse to lighten you the f-ck up.

    2. An Cat Dubh 9 Aug 2011, 3:01pm

      Envy is a bitch.

      1. Jock S. Trap 10 Aug 2011, 8:56am

        Funny you mention that coz so is Rich (unoriginal)!

  8. People , you are more than shameful, more lilke cowards, to evil and wimps to bullies, what the hell is wrong with you people the lives of children that is waiting for adults to show them they care, you do not coward down to hatemongers, you kick their asses in the court rooms with the aclu and the human rights commitiees, time and time again you keep reorganizing and reorganiziing and you take these people to the mat, and protect those children, you assholes, those meeting and gay alliance is parmount , down their conferences wisth lgbt mentors and gay mps, and councils should be running to instate and protect such a vital issue, you get your asses up and put boxing gloves on , and get the other lgbt activists and human rights equality orgs to help you set their conferences up you get lynne featherstone to help that what she is suppose to do, get down to her office now, and take actions, what hell is wrong with you people, save live, educate, and help stop the hate,

  9. Christine Beckett 6 Aug 2011, 9:20am

    Wow. Palestinian groups complained?

    Maybe it should be held in Beirut instead, or how about Cairo, or Riyadh, or Abu Dhabi, or maybe one of the other cities of the famously LGBT-tolerant countries that surround Israel?

    chrissie

    1. yeah, I’d wanted to suggest Bahrain or maybe Tehran – be a hanging good time, that!

  10. I have a gay Palestinian friend. He tells me that he feels much more safe and accepted in Tel Aviv than he does in Palestine. Why? Because he cannot under any circumstances be open about his sexuality in Palestine.

    1. An Cat Dubh 9 Aug 2011, 3:04pm

      You mean ‘Palestinian Territories’. Palestine is not a country, it’s a geographic term. Once the alleged Palestinians have one ruling body, their own currency, and the ability to provide itself its own basic needs we’ll talk. Now it’s an autonomous region in Israel.

  11. Peter Tatchell 6 Aug 2011, 1:38pm

    IGLYO and IGY were right to cancel. Read my reasoning here:
    http://tinyurl.com/3e66eax

    I hope there can be a dialogue with Palestinian LGBTI groups to address their issues. Unlike Israeli LGBTIs, they suffer real persecution. Their concerns should not be over-ridden.

    IGLYO does great work and Israeli LGBTI organisations are to be commended for the many successful equality measures they have campaigned for and won.

    However, the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories and Israel’s denial of asylum to Palestinian LGBTIs are issues that cannot be ignored by any human rights organisation – LGBTI or non-LGBTI.

    I look forward to the day when the Israeli occupation is over, when Palestinians have their own independent state, when all Israelis and all Palestinians live in peace, harmony and equality, and when LGBTI people live in safety and freedom on both sides of the Israel-Palestinian divide.

    These hopes may seem distant but we must strive to make them happen.

    1. This is still a bit idealistic. Support Palestinian LGBT people how? It is as clear as day and night that NO Muslim country in the Middle East will have moderately decent conditions for LGBT people (and I am talking something like Ukraine or Bulgaria, not something like the UK, Belgium or Israel mind you). Not having the meeting in Israel will just send a message that LGBT people support the plight of a homophobic culture without really asking anything in return.

    2. Rich (original) 6 Aug 2011, 9:10pm

      Good luck, Peter! Even I dislike homosexuals, I agree with you on critical opposition to Israel’s policy.

    3. Thanks for such clear thinking Peter.

      Imagine a day when ALL people can live in peace and harmony and equality.

  12. To all these people claim that Israel is pro gay. Can just one of you tell me why it’s happy to support anti-gay neighboring dictators violently put down and jail etc gay Arab activists?

  13. It’s simple. Just tell the ‘Palestinians’ (no such state – never was) simply not to bother coming. Problem solved.

    1. (Apparently rebutals can’t be honest.) Irrespective of whether you feel the “state” of Palestine exists or not, the people do. . The views of the fascist Israeli govenrment are resulting in the deaths of countless children, every day. You support this. Sleep well.

      1. As every single ‘Palestinian’ (there was never, ever such a state, just a bunch of itinerants causing an eyesore with their tents, unable in over sixty years to bring order to their ‘house’) wants the annihilation of all Jews, I sleep very soundly, thank you. Find a real cause to become all worthy about.

  14. As a Bi in Israel, Im ashamed to hear about this!! We all belong to the LGBTQ community, we all suffer the same treatment of the narrow minded goverments across the world, in that we have unity above any other issue. Its a shame to see that small groups ruine that. Israel has issues, I admit that, but we have an open conversation about that, we try to fix laws and way of thinking, we fight for gay rights, we have some reasnble gay rights, but let me ask, where is all of that in the countries around Israel?! Its always nice and easy joining the mainstream of HATE against Israel, but really take a secound and think, “where will i could live better as an openly GAY m/f? in Israel, or the other dozens of arab countries” ? I wonder what youll choose. so stop the hypocricity, and join your common sense. To tell the truth, even I dont know what is the boycott law, never heared of it.. (and its probebly stupid as other laws that were trying to change)

    1. dont try to understand people, they just adore judging others without even trying to learn a single thing about the world.

      I hate it how gay community boycotts Israel, cause for God’s sake, we shall be supportive for all gays around the world regardless of the conflicts that are going on, regardless of their nationality and so on. Israel is great when it comes to gay rights, actually offering much better protection than many European oh-so-farking-awesome countries like ex. France or Switzerland so gays boycotting that country for some non-gay-related issue is just ridiculous. But good luck, dear fellow gays, boycotting gay-friendly countries.

      1. What? Make some sense please. I bocott the Israeli because they steal land and murder children, not because of their gay rights record. Open your eyes.

        1. EwanS I dunno where you come from, but honey, I wont start to defend cos.. shi* happens, and we all make mistakes, but ppl do mistakes when trying to protect themselves. For example, what about the USA? when fighting the japanese, they made a Getto to concetrate all the citizens with japanese heritage, humanistic ? NOT. what about murdering the Indians to get their lands? what about the civil murdering in Iraq? what about the occupation of british goverment over Irland? over India? what about children in Israel who were murdered by palastinians? If you really wanna boycott based on that philosophy, youll need to boycott the whole world, if not, your just a sanctimonious racist ;P

          1. That’s some fine rationalisation there. “If you disagree with some child murder, you have to condem all of it, and that’s just impractical!” Well, mate I do, I find every act of human degradation that you’ve listed anathama. You clearly just accept it, as part of human discourse, which in my opinion makes you the enemy.

          2. Ah, EwanS for some kind of reason I cannot reply your comment, but I wanted to say that, Indeed, all the actions I mentioned above are the outcome of paranoic and protective acts, there is no way to justify them and they should have delt with differently. What I trully ment is, that life gows on, and we try to learn from our mistakes and to be the least paranoic as we can. There is no point boycutting a country that still makes arguments within itself about the way it’s goverment deal with things… The same you dont boycutt other countries with a similar path of thinking.

        2. Israel is far from having a clean record, but the conflict is far from one-sided. They killed children in a territory with the population density of London from where missiles were launched at them by Hamas (though they knew Israel would respond), but the Palestinians have commited their fair share of attrocities too.

          Visit Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Ramallah if you want to find out more about the conflict. But in the meantime, I am getting fed up with how gays are glueing themselves to the left-wing agenda without bothering to fact-check.

          1. I’d call the most well armed, well financed military force in region, backed by the worlds only super-power, and the immunity from any form of international law fairly one sided, when they’re ranged against a desperate, starving, opressed population, being driven futher into the arms of fascist lunatics by the actions of said opressors, pretty one sided. If you think otherwise, you’re an idiot.

          2. hahahah thats a good joke right there EwanS. starving poor population ?! Have you ever been to gaza?! do you know how much money Hamas gets?! do you know how many ppl donate the gaza strip? If only the had invested it on thier citizens.. but what do I expect of such brutal thinking ppl? hon, you can call me an idiot, but im not ignorant with blindeness as you ;)
            Nighty night.

          3. What starving people Chomsky? I trust it you have never been to the Palestinian territories in your life…

            And based on your arguments, I could say that the Palestinians are bringing it on themselves by their relentless bombing of civilian towns and killing of children with Qassams thus making the Israelis fall into the hands of a lunatic fringe. FYI, Muslim countries from the region are ruled by a lunatic fringe by nature of their theocratic societies.

            To get back to the boycott issue, my Q is: who is it hurting, who is it helping?

            Is it hurting the Israelis who are behind the occupation? Since these are largely the national-religious sector of society, I would say it makes them rather happy not to have an LGBT event there.

            Is it helping the Palestinians and Arab gays in general? Highly doubt it. By the nature of their societies they will always be perceived as subhuman by 95% of their fellow citizens.

            So I guess the only people to be slaped over the face are the Israeli gays.

          4. Rich (original) 7 Aug 2011, 3:51pm

            Robert, you are CORRECT!….

  15. The palestinian people don’t bomb anyone. Hamas do. Islamic Jihad do. Your assertion that the Palastinian people “bring it on themselves” is just as moronic as suggesting that ordinary Israelis are responsible for the attrocities commited by the israeli military and state. And, as an anarchist, comparing me to Noam Chomsky is far, far from derogatory. Cheers.

    1. EwanS common get reall!! Not so long ago a WHOLE FAMILY, father, mother, 2 small kids and a BABY were brutally sloughtered by an arab man who considered himsef as a palastinian, with a knife alone, in their sleep!
      there is much hatred between the 2 sides then you could imagine.. we just hope to get through it, somehow…
      anyway, It doesnt justify a boycott over Israel gay youth… that is what that decision have done.. as a Bi I trully feel discriminated by my own community, and it feels awful.

  16. And “FYI” (I really deplore that abreviation,) you might want to take a further look at these “theocratically natured” societies. Iran for example, has a largely liberal, progressive population. They are ruled by fascists, it doesn’t make the population so. It’s just symptomatic of pro-zionists in their attempts to dehumanise arabs to justify the atrocities of the Israeli state.

    1. So if I do not agree to your beleifs I am a “pro-Zionist”, “idiot” and probably support those who “kill children on a daily basis”.

      I will not bother to respond to your other arguments as you obviously have traveled the region extensively and are comabing my ideological propaganda with hard facts ;)

      1. Oh please dispense with the condescending crap. I’m a low-paid worker from Glasgow, I have the pressing matter of keeping a roof over me and my better half head. What you’re insinuating is that those that don’t have the sesources to travle to every corner of the world they wish to form an opinion on, needent bother. Utter, snobby bollocks. And if your going to insinuate that the people of Gaza brought all that white phospherous on themselves, you have a clear ideological stance.

  17. It’s an insult to all of us. Israel should be shunned by the entire world. They pretend to be a democracy, but they’re ethnically cleansing Palestinians & stealing their land. They want the world to think they’re an ‘equal rights’ society. They AREN’T. We invade countries for that Fascist hive, the countries they’ve wanted invading since Israel was created from stolen land. It’s not a coincidence we’ve only invaded countries Israel hates.

    We should be begin sanctions against them. The world should be throwing their diplomats out, to show we do NOT accept Fascism.

    I will never recognise an illegal Fascist state that murders civilians, women & children, & creates ghettos behind Apartheid walls, interwoven with Israel , using Palestinians as human shields to protect them. Absolutely disgusting country.

    They pretend to want peace, they don’t at all, they create conflict so they can steal more land.

    We should be protecting the Palestinians, not invading 3 Israeli targets.

    1. “Israeli targets”? Are you completely mad? Are you familiar with ANY Islamic doctrine?

      Why don’t you go and live somewhere OTHER than Israel and proclaim how gay you are. Or maybe how Christian you are. Or Jewish you are. Or atheist you are.

      Find a real cause, with real wrong-doing involved. Don’t try to make a case for sub-humans.

  18. Jock S. Trap 7 Aug 2011, 10:24am

    And still religion divides. Shameful.

    1. Religion is only part of the problem with the Israeli state. It’s ultra-right-wing nationalism that’s at the core of it. An ideology of racial superiority and anexation of other peoples homes. Netenyahu wouldn’t know irony if it shagged his granny and wiped its knob on the curtains.

      1. And neither would you. You’re just another apologist for Islamic fascism, peddling your cut and paste principles for a complete non-cause.

        1. Utter bollocks. I’m a militant ararchist communist. I think islam is vile, perverse tool of social control, the same as christianity, judaism, or any other dogmatic belief structure. I believe that Hamas should swing along side the fascists of the Israeli state. But of course, I disagree with zionism, I’m a card-carrying member of Islamic Jihad (those wee black outfits are to die for!) I’m astounded that you didn’t invoke the holocaust or accuse me of being an anti-semite. Kindly do one.

          1. Jock S. Trap 7 Aug 2011, 1:59pm

            “I’m a militant ararchist communist. I think islam is vile, perverse tool of social control…”

            Erm and communism isn’t?

          2. You’re an idiot who needs to be identified by the various ideological talismans he wears. I suggest you get a personality instead, and then work on that repugnant anti-semitism of yours. There.

          3. And of course, that was to Ewan, not Jock. Ewan… the pitiful aspirant to his own destruction. Don’t ever have children. Even if someone lets you.

      2. lol ultra-right-wing… Did you ever bother to check before stating that?!
        Did you know that the left-center-wing is bigger then the right? (they lost the elections though ‘cos we have different way of electing…read about that if you’d like..the concept is good, but latly became unpracticle..)
        Did you know that people in Israel dont die because they dont have money for health insurance?! In Israel health insurance is mandatory and funded by taxes and given to the poor for free Did you know that in Israel kids must be sent to school, and if they dont have money, they can go for free? Did you know Israel have better gay rights then many countried in the U.S.A ? arab countries? many european ones? So Ultra-right-wing? how come? And please, stop belive that jews mean Orthodeox… there are many other rythims, and many athaists.. (we do have fanatic religious people.. i wish the crazy ones will vanish already)

        1. Izik, please don’t assume that I think that all Israelis are bad, or all jews are bad for that matter. That’s what morons like Enoch will have you believe. Anyway, I have listed the number of reasons why I believe your government to be far right up and down the page, but in a nut-shell, nationalism is a right wing ideology, and I struggle to think of a politician more nationalistic than Netenyahu.

  19. James Incer 7 Aug 2011, 12:32pm

    It’s not the gays of Israel who should feel upset at this decision – they will still have full and equal rights whether the conference goes ahead or not.

    It is the young gays of the West Bank and Gaza, especially those of Gaza living under the tyrannical regime of the terrorist group Hamas, who are being denied the opportunity to see how much better life would be for them just over the border. Their authorities (including Fatah) deny them marriage equality, employment equality and anti-discrimination.

    1. True that being gay arab, sucks… but at the least some of them have shelter in Israel. (The ones that have citizenship)
      I had a gay arab boyfriend (yea, while I served in the military), and he moved to Tel-Aviv just cos there he could be who he is! there are many arab gay youth that ran from the west bank to Israel, and Israelis even funding a place called “Habait hapatooach” <- which means "The open house" , and there arab gay youth can live, and work nearby in TelAviv and are guided by mentors and supporting adults. (Its not only for arabs, but the majority there are arabs..)

  20. That’d be Lininism you’re thinking Jock, or one of its bastard offshoots. Anarchist Communism is about creating a classless, stateless, moneyless society without “Socialism” or political parties. So no, by its very deffinition, Anarcho-communism cannot be an instrument of social control, as it seeks to dismantel the apparatus of control.

    1. And replace it with the control of even more power hungry idiots who pretend to idealism. There can never be a classless society, because sheep like you will always crowd around ideologies and political clubs.

      1. It’s the next step in social evolution and an inevitability, and it’s clearly an ideological stance that you know bugger all about. And there’s the last ditch effort of the desperate moron. Accusing people that have a problem with the Israeli state as having a problem with all jews. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. See unlike you, I just see human beings. I don’t actually differentiate between jew and arab. It’s you that tries to deny the very existence of the Palestinian people, basically declaring them untermensch. Don’t try and tar me with your own filth you vile hypocrite.

        1. Jock S. Trap 7 Aug 2011, 3:09pm

          You might not differentiate between Jew and Arab but most people, particularly in the Middle East don’t see anything else but that.

          Lets not forget that the Palentinians aren’t faultless here, they do attack Israel with rockets which like any country can’t be just left while their own citizens get killed.

          Logic would dictate that if they stopped attack Israel, Israel wouldn’t find reason to attack Palestine and therefore would be able to get help and assistance in help Palestine grow into a country that want.

          I’m not saying Israel are blameless, you’d (not you personally) be a fool to think Israel weren’t on occasion being overly heavy handed and I don’t agree with the settlements but both sides are at fault and it is pointless putting more blame on one and not the other.

        2. @ Ewan. No, you do differentiate between humans. Arab suffering is raw and palpable, and Jewish suffering… well, that just serves them right.
          .
          The Jews have one state. The Arabs have many. Why don’t the Arabs simply absorb the Palestinians (who never actually established a country, by either fair means or foul), and pursue Israel for some financial recompense for doing so? I’m sure the latter would be glad to comply.
          .
          Now if you’re talking about PRINCIPLE… and the principle of people not having their rights taken away from them in the very spot that they occupy… well, I would believe you more if I heard you making an impassioned plea for the systematic ‘cleansing’ of Christians and other non-Muslims from places like Indonesia, Egypt and Iraq. Or don’t children count for you in those places?
          .
          It is partly because of double standards like this that the Palestinian cause is slowly no longer being perceived as legitimate, but as yet another sly manifestation of Islamic supremacy

          1. We’re not talking about indonesia, egypt or iraq. Please stop with this attempt to seem even-handed. You described the palestinians as sub-human. You support the far right policies of the Israeli government. You believe that the sham of representitive democracy is acceptable, because it prevents change that you would find unpalatable. You are nought but a vile, petty, fascist wretch.

            And stop attempting to put words in my mouth. Nowhere did I say that Israeli casualties were in any way deserved, or acceptable. My mind doesn’t work like yours. I don’t think collective punishment is acceptable.

          2. You can call me what you want, but I know a jealous, hate-filled anti-semite with a 12 year old’s mentality when I see one. You have a one-track mind that reviles the one group in the middle east that would spare your ugly self. You are truly sub-human, and feel free to quote me on that.

    2. Jock S. Trap 7 Aug 2011, 3:00pm

      Trouble is without social control comes chaos and whether we like it or not it goes again human nature. Someone somewhere would seek to take control it would lead to an inevitables conclusion.

      The difference is do you have communism like China, a dictatorship like Iran or a system where you choose who we prefer at any given time like the UK?

      Give me the latter anyday.

      1. Jock S. Trap 7 Aug 2011, 3:02pm

        Correction – it should have read :- it goes against human nature.

        1. On topic – Do you think that if the Jihadis stopped firing their rockets, the Israeli state would cease all hostility and stop building settlments in the occupied territories? Not a chance.

          As for the “we need a leader because chaos would reign without one, it’s human nature!” I a lie spoonfed to all of us by the state. Most pre-industrial societies existed in collectivised anarchist conditions. Just to say “its in our nature to be only callous and selfish” is not only giving in to the capitalist class, but it’s not true. Humans have a highly cooperative part of their nature too, as can be confirmed by anthropologists, historians etc. Without it, we wouldn’t be here. Social darwinism is a creation of evil little men of privilage. Don’t let them suck you in.

          1. Jock S. Trap 7 Aug 2011, 3:42pm

            It might not be in all nature to be callous and selfish it is for some and those are the people that in effect cause us to need government. Without it those people become power crazy ego manics and nothing becomes fair after than so you get what you choose, or sadly for many you get and put up with..

        2. And jock, representative democracy is a scam. It gives the illussion of choice. The UK is in no way truely democratic.

          1. Jock S. Trap 7 Aug 2011, 3:47pm

            Possibly but it works better than your alternative. Guess we can debate the terms of democracy, I’d rather not but either way we do have government choosen by the majority of those who can be bothered to vote.

            For those who don’t, I don’t see why they complain, or even how they can.

            Anyway, this is a bit way of the beaten track so back to the story.

            Israel may not cease the hostilities, who can say but Palentine would be in a far better position with Western sympathies and support that would warrant things to change.

          2. That’s…nope, screw it, you’re right, discussion for the other time, I can’t be arsed.

            As for the who ceases hostilities first argument…It’s a mut point. It needs to be mutual and simultaneous.

          3. “Representative democracy is a scam.” And I for one am very, very glad that it is. We don’t need mob rule, any more than we need (at the other end of the spectrum) one per cent controlling the wealth.
            .
            Hamas is a democratically elected body. And so was the current government of Iran. This is not a tribute to democracy, but rather testament to the vileness of the electorate at large.
            .
            The anti-gay stance among the population only started to shift when progressive governments responded to protests by homosexuals and their supporters.
            .
            If it had been left to the ordinary voter…

          4. Jock S. Trap 8 Aug 2011, 8:28am

            Ewan S

            Yes, I totally agree it needs to be mutual and simultaneous. Sadly I think that idea though may be a lost cause.

  21. DJ Sheepiesheep 8 Aug 2011, 12:27am

    Wow. Ewan, are you for real? I am seriously impressed with your ability to maintain the rantings of a bedsit Trot. You must be playing the part of Rick in the Young Ones. Hilarious, keep it up, please!

    1. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that sort of spurious, lazy tabloid dismissal of left-wing views. Sounding like Kelvin McKenzie isn’t a something to be strived for, but if you wanted to sound like a lazy Sun hack, congrats.

      1. DJ Sheepiesheep 8 Aug 2011, 8:52pm

        Ahhh, did I hurt your precious little feelings?

  22. What an appalling and depressing decision.

  23. Gay Palestinian groups? Are you kidding?

  24. So I just typed in LGBT Israel to see what the internet says about gay rights there, and this story popped up… I have to say, I’m a gay man from England, currently living in Israel, and the whole story is absolutely ridiculous, and Peter Tatchell’s reasoning behind it is absolute BS!

    Israel is the ONLY country, not only in the Middle East, but nearly all of Africa AND Asia as well, that treats gay people equally in both law and in society. You can have your same-sex marriage recognised; become a same-sex parent; serve openly in the army; or simply walk through the street holding hands with your partner without fear.

    I also had dinner on Jewish New Year with an organisation called Agudah, which has actually saved the lives of scores of Arabs and Palestinian gay people by helping them gain asylum in Israel to escape the persecution, humiliation, torture, rape and worse suffered in their own countries.

    When will people wake up!

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