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Italy rejects anti-homophobia bill

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  1. no surprise there then

    1. Exactly.

      1. Actually I am surprised – surprised that the vote was 293 to 250. A few years ago there is no way that this bill would have garnered 250 votes. Disappointing yes, but indicating that progress is being made. Painfully slow though!

        1. No progress has been made, mate.
          Don’t Kid Yourself.

          this country is gettig more theocratic and illiberal by the minute.

          Italy has become a colony of the Vatican (and no, it wasn’t always thus).

          I urge you all to stop underestemating what’s going on here.

    2. Miguel Sanchez 27 Jul 2011, 3:17pm

      WTF is going on here? I have a very strong suspicion that the church is behind this.

      I think every LBGT person and those who support us should boycot the country.

    3. Katie Murphy 28 Jul 2011, 6:29am

      When the catholic church of RATZInger is in its grave, everything will change.

      the church that hates gays, the church of the endless hidden molestation of children all over the world

      Help to exterminate this filth. Spread the word.

      Go to (reverse the 5 capitalized letters)

      1. You mean NATZinger?

  2. Mr Ripley's Asscrack 27 Jul 2011, 10:21am

    Warped country… warped leader.

  3. When is the EU going to put some pressure on countries like Italy, Poland and Lithuania to ensure basic human rights for all citizens of the union? Italy really is the Texas of Europe.

    1. Ironically Poland may approve Civil Unions in the next few days, but nothing is stopping it from being a rampantly homophobic society. The EU really should step up.

      1. Poland won’t legislate civil unions this year because there’s no time. Elections are in autumn and any law not having a final vote has to be brought again to parliament (but cannot be word for word the same).
        Hate crime legislation has better chances to pass this year.

        1. Katie Murphy 28 Jul 2011, 6:31am

          Anything is good there. But I read that although 80+ % consider them catholics, only 40% follow the horrible church doctrine.

          Its like the USA where 94 to 96% of the catholics use artificial birth control despite the church.

          We need to understand how to break the links between the church and its flock.

    2. Gabor Szabados 27 Jul 2011, 12:42pm

      How many military divisions has the EU got? (Stalin asked his generals how many divisions the Pope had when he warned the Soviets of something.)

    3. No sense ot it 27 Jul 2011, 6:07pm

      You left-out Greece, which has ZERO recognition/protection for its gay citizens, thanks to the corrupt influence of the Greek Orthodox church, and a homophobic, brain-dead gov’t. Contrast bankrupt Greece with countries like Nepal, which has developed a full-out campaign to attract gay tourists.

  4. its just a tactic to stop his country tearing him apart find someone else to piss rather than deal with the fact your prime minister is a creep.

  5. Paddyswurds 27 Jul 2011, 10:35am

    Looks like 70 odd years hasn’t changed the fascist Italians and it seems that they would rather see us in the gas chambers like they did then. Nice country, vile people!

    1. Italy did not have gas chambers

      1. Paddyswurds 27 Jul 2011, 12:45pm

        @Dan filson….
        ….no but they had allies who did. Do we always need to paint pictures for you Dan or are you just being cussed?

      2. Katie Murphy 28 Jul 2011, 6:32am

        Didnt fascism and machiavelli come from italy.

        home of the vatican.

    2. I can recommend a couple of history textbooks on WW2 if you like – they won’t be mentioning gas chambers.

      1. Paddyswurds 27 Jul 2011, 1:10pm

        ……don’t need them thanks. See above. Seems we have to paint pictures for you too.

        1. Well if your art work is as good as your history I’m clearly in for a treat, I look forward to the entertainment value.

    3. I’m sure Italy has just as many ‘vile’ people as the UK. Generalisations like that aren’t fair – nor in any way true.

    4. Jock S. Trap 1 Aug 2011, 10:20am

      Prehaps you mean a country who couldn’t decide which side to back in which case, you bloomin hypocrite since Ireland was the same!

  6. Not sure anybody has any influence on Italy, here’s a letter from HRW to Italy with section on gay rights

    “Regarding Italy’s election to the United Nations Human Rights Council ”

    Not sure why they and Greece don’t get more publicity. I almost expect Poland , Lithuania etc to be bastards but somehow I always think Italy and Greece should be a little bit more ahead with the times..

    1. italy and greece with their massive corruption and equally massive tax avoidance wouldnt be allowed to join eu if judged by today’s criteria

    2. Sending a letter to Frattini is a waste of time. He was the ineffective EU Commissioner for Justice, Freedom and Security. He was supposedly responsible for the implementation of the Freedom of Movement Directive and what a mess his Commission made of that. Now seven years after its proposed implementation GLBT still have huge hurdles to overcome in moving around Europe, with Italy being one of the worst violators in not correctly implementing the Directive.

  7. Ooer missus 27 Jul 2011, 10:58am

    And how much of the media does Berlusconi own?

    1. Too much

    2. He owns pretty much the entire lot.

      The largest private stations are owned by him. As PM he controls the legislation governing the pubic TV stattions.

      His influence on Italian democracy truly has been cancerous and appalling.

  8. In some ways the closeness of the vote is encouraging given the pervasive influence of the Vatican

    1. i suspect the closeness of the vote is more about politics than support for gay rights

  9. This is not surprising considering that Italy is not really a democracy.

    It is a sham democracy but in reality it falls far short – no freedom of press (Italy ranks number 67 on the world press freedom index – behind both Turkey and all former Soviet East European countries); women’s rights in Itlay are appalling (behind Turkey).

    Italy is a joke of a country who should be expelled from the EU.

    Kick them out – let them deal with theirn bankruptcy on their own.

    1. Yes, even though they were a founding memeber who contributed as much as they could econimcally and politically to post-war Europe even despite desperate poverty in the south.

      Yes, let’s punish them for having an odious leader but shutting them out of a largely positive force in Europe.

      1. Well Italy through its lack of democracy and utter disregard for press freedomg and human rights has become an incredibly negative force in Europe.

        1. Steve, have you seen Britain’s record on human rights and public freedom? Open up a book on Thatcher, Diplock courts and the unwarranted attack of the Belgrano in the Falklands.

          Assuming you’re British, we’re in no fit state to point fingers at anyone else.

          1. Jock S. Trap 27 Jul 2011, 2:34pm

            Good Grief, in case you’ve forgotten we are in 2011 not 1982.

          2. My point is that we accuse Italy of doing exactly what we’ve done previously and thus arguing the point that we should perhaps be slightly more open to the fact that these things take time.

          3. Jock S. Trap 27 Jul 2011, 3:05pm

            I can’t ride with that being that Italy has been perfectly able to change just like the UK and yet it doesn’t, in fact it stalls. The only good thing is more people are voting for us these days but Italy chooses not to change.

            You can’t make excuses for something 30 years ago being relievent to things today. If it was Poland maybe they have been a democracy far less but not Italy.

          4. I’m not making excuses at all. I am however arguing that we need to be a litle more tolerant. Not of Burlesconi, because he’s a prick, nor of the Catholic Church.

            Because something is ‘right’ doesn’t automatically make it magically become corporeal. It makes it the opposite unless people fight for it (which evidently, they’re doing if you check the results of the vote).

            I know in an ideal world we’d all be happily living side by side with our felow man and woman but we’re not and until that point we have to understand that prudence is also as important as being able to fight.

            Pick your battles, don’t rush headlong into every single one.

          5. with regards the Belgrano, yes it was a horrific loss of life but both the captain (Hector Bonzo) and the Argentine government testified that it was a legitimate act in a time of war. Especially as the Belgrano, despite being outside the exclusion zone, had been under orders for the previous 24 hours to attack British vessels

            Sorry if that annoys but it is a fact

          6. Patrick Lyster-Todd 27 Jul 2011, 8:28pm

            Well done James for your correction re the Belgrano. It annoys me intensely when individuals are so ignorant of the actual facts. War is a nasty, dirty business but the attack on the Belgrano was certainly not unwarranted; it was an extremely serious threat to the British task force and all its embarked sailors and needed to be removed. Sad, regretable but fact.

          7. I am well aware of my history thank you and didn’t appreciate your patronising tone Patrick.

            War is a dirty thing, I understand all that. My point is (yet again, as many seem contented to pick wholes in my history knowledge as opposed to challange my actual point) is that we are in no position to criticise Italy on it’s human rights and public freedoms record. It appears to me that italy is about 20 years behind Britain and so in time (the evidence suggests that support for LGBT issues is growing) Italy will get there.

  10. Highly irresponsible and shameful behaviour!
    So Italy, already bans discrimination on the grounds of race, religion and ethnicity, but not Sexual Orientation
    This raises the question, why does Italy think homophobic and transphobic crime to be irrelevant?

  11. Italy is one of the last bastions of bigotry when it comes down to LGBT rights. Perversely, Italy has a tradition of being more liberal in the past concerning gay men and women – regardless of the influence of the Catholic church.
    It annoys me when I read statements about them all being fascits, or cowards or whatever. For your information brave Italian men and women fought against the fascists strongly all through the war – and even before.
    Also, not all men and women in Italy are bigots. Their media is highly influential (as it is here) and Burlesconi is an animal. But that’s all.
    It’ll get there, it has to. It may take some time but it needs our support, not our disdain and impatience.

    1. We'[re not talking about the past.

      Italy in the 21st century cannot and shouild not be regarded as a democracy.

      At best it is a sham democracy.

  12. And another thing..

    go and read the headlines of the front page. The majority of the stories are negative.

    We pride ourselves on being a liberal beacon of freedom of expression in the Western world yet clearly even taking a brief look at the fonrtpage of pink news denotes otherwise.

    Does it look like we should stop offeriong help in all these instances? Should we really pull out and leave them to flounder?

    No, I don’t think we should.

    1. its not just about italian pm having disregard for lgbt rights its about italian society and its attitudes towards lgbt community, ask yourself why italy doesnt want any gay rights, and how much time will it take to change that, surley you are not waiting for belerusconi to die (since italians are incapable of voting out old clown)

      1. It’s not just LGBT people who suffer in the sham democracy of Italy.

        The position of women and the freedom of the press in Italy are an utter disgrace.

        Unless they change then i absolutely think they need to flounder on their own.

        They cannot be allowed to spread their fascism to the rest of Europe.

        1. They’re NOT fascists..argh. Do you even know what that word means? Or it’s connotations? Tell me what you mean by “fascists”?

          Ok, I admit that some of the state is undeomcratic but no-one state is a perfect deomcracy. Anyhow, the whole notion of deomcracy and freedom is subjective.

          Kane, that’s the thing – people clearly DO want equal rights or so many wouldn’t have voted for it. Yes, it’s a loss buit it’s indicative of changing times and Italy will catch up.

          1. And until they do catch up then they should face financial consequences.

            The sham democracy of Italy cannot be allowed to legislate this on their own.

            They need to sort this out immediately or face consequences.

            Democracy is so fragile and corruption so rampant in Italy that they simply cannotn be trusted to do it on their own

  13. Deeside Will 27 Jul 2011, 12:06pm

    I find this really sad. I love Italy and regard it almost as my second homeland. At one time the Italians were far ahead of us: back in the dark ages when gay sex was a crime in Britain it wasn’t in Italy and hadn’t been since the late 18th century. But we have long moved on and Italy has stayed behind. Che tristezza!

    1. Isn’t it the Napoleonic Code that first abolished the criminalisation of homosexuality in what’s now Italy?

  14. Lucio Buffone 27 Jul 2011, 12:18pm

    Loving all the casual anti – Italian racism. When I went to my Dad’s village in Calabria with my boyfriend, we never experienced any homophobia. I’d suggest the vote was lost because Berlusconi’s coalition are clinging on to power and because of the influence of the Catholic Church. But there is a strong fight for equality going on, google Nichi Vendola. The gay Governor of Puglia could be the next PM!

    1. de Villiers 27 Jul 2011, 12:28pm

      I always saw lots of gay Italians in Nice when I lived there and thought that there was more going on there than in Italy.

    2. There is nothing “Casual” about Homophobia and Transphobia!

      1. Discrimination is discrimination!

        1. Indeed it is. And criticising a country for its bigotry, caused in large measure by the baleful influence of the church of Rome, is hardly racist.

    3. It’s not racism to point out that Italy is not a democracy , where the position of women and LGBT people are appalling; where there is very little freedom of press; and where corruption is rife.

      These are statements of fact.

    4. @ Lucio: do you think the attitudes would have been as accepting (or indifferent) if it had been your village too, ie if you’d grown up there?

  15. …’gay campaigners claim his alleged affairs with minors make him a hypocrite.’ – no you A holes his alleged affairs with minors makes him a Pedo – a hypercite mean his illegal affairs are the same as our relationships – DERRR!

    1. Well considering how often homophobes equare homosexuality with paedophilia, he can be considered to be a hypocrite, since it is he who is allegedly a paedophile

  16. When it comes to human rights and gay rights, Italy is no worse than the United States. Both countries are filled with corrupt politicians, bigots and hypocrites. The corrupt politicians like Berlusconi use people’s hate and bigotry to control them. It is the same here in the U.S. There is no such thing as “human rights” there are only “privileges” granted by corrupt governments.

    1. Except the US isn’t part of the EU and it’s various orgs..It sad that the EU doesn’t appear to exert more inluence on these countries, it’s really frustrating! I can’t live or work in the States but I’m entitled to go to Italy as a European. Yet when an Italian gay couple comes to the UK, they get full British rights as a couple, yet when I go to Italy with my partner, I get nothing and on top of that I’m allowed to be discriminated against. We’re supposed to have freedom of movement in the EU but it’s impossible for us to go there…..

  17. Italy might start with getting rid of that stupid card that you need to do something as simple as get into a gay bar. Its like the fascist days of “needing your papers”.

  18. Berlusconi, the Rupert Murdoch of Italy, but far more corrupt of course. Even more corrupt is that he’s the PM and owns the entire media of the country. It’s beyond conflict of interest.

    Not all Italians are bigots, just as not all Brits are. This is all about the influence of the roman cult influencing political outcomes. Get rid of that, and oligarchs such as Berlusconi, we will probably see Italy get on the right track as long as the next PM isn’t a conservative. This probably would not have happened had Romano Prodi been PM.

    1. The lack of press freedom; the corruption; and the appalling status of women and gay people in Italy cannot be blamed on the Vatican.

      it is because Italy is a corrupt sham democracy.

      Nothing more.

      1. Were you rejected by your italian boyfriend? No worries, to regain your confindence, you can blame his country while listening to Christina Aguilera’s Beautiful song.

        1. No – I find Italian people friendly but pretty dull to be honest. They are so often insular and uninformed, even about their own country.

          Which is hardly surprising considering they don’t have a free press therefore the information they know about is usually just thrash that their Pedo PM gives them in his appalling media outlets.

          1. Italians is peninsular. We is insular. LOL

  19. This is where the legislation against racism and discrimination in the UN comes in that was signed a few months ago, interantional human rights and the other civil rights human rights organaizations has to let Itally know you your government will be sanctioned if you do not follow that legislation signed by the UN against all discrimination, andt to add all protedtions against in every country, ITALY IS GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE MAJOR OVERHAUL, THERE ARE LGBT OFFICIAL THAT NEED TO RUN FOR OFFICES AND THEY WILL BE ELECTED WHEN THEY ADDRESS THE PEOPLE ABOUT HOW THEY NEED FAIR HONORBLE OFFICIALS PROTECTING AND CARING FOR ALL OF THEIR FAMILIES WITHOUT PREJUDICE, AND REMOVE THE SHAMEFUL BIGGOTS–GET IT DONE. MANY OTHER PLACES ARE WORKING ON THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS AND HUMAINTY , AS WELL, ALL OF THE NATION MUST STOP BEING MONSTERS OF EVIL HATE AND WORK ON BEING CIVILIZED HUMANE SOCIETY, WHO RESPECT OTHERS WHO ARE NOT BOTHERING THEM, AND TREAT OTHERS LIKE THEY WANT TO BE TREATED. WITH FAIR EQUALITY

  20. Jock S. Trap 27 Jul 2011, 2:31pm

    It;s time the EU stepped up and protected All it’s residents not some depending on individual countries point of view and debate of us.

    We’re not after more rights but the same ones as anybody elses, so these countries should deal with it or make Gay people etc pay less taxes.

    As I don’t see that happening I guess the answer is Equality for all, not some.

    1. Then the question arises whether the EU has a right to intervene in affairs of national sovreignty. If for example the EU decided that it wanted to introduce a tax to all European states would you agree to that also, or would you then argue the otherside of the coin?

      I agree with you with regards to equality. It should be universal but then something which is normative and something which is descriptive are two very different things.

      It’s 293 to 250…not 400 to 10. The truth is that Italy is making progress. It may be slower than what’s liked (thanks to Burlesconi, the Catholic Church etc) but it’s still something. The next time it’s voted on it’ll be better.

      1. Jock S. Trap 27 Jul 2011, 3:14pm

        The EU already does tax all European States our government it currently fighting EU proposals to increase them but as long as we have to pay them the EU has the right, as do we to insist they improve Equality for which we do pay for.

        Yes I agree they are making progress but it is slow and it does nothing for all the LGBTQI community in Italy now.

        So how long do they have to wait for those extra 50 votes for a better life?

      2. Tim Hopkins 27 Jul 2011, 3:17pm

        The EU can impose anti-discrimination laws on its member states – as it has already done in relation to employment, for race, gender, gender reassignment religion, sexual orientation, disability and age, and in relation to the provision of goods and services, for race, gender and gender reassignment. Having said that, those particular EU rules have to be agreed unanimously by member states. They are probably most useful in requiring new EU members to comply.

        But the EU does not have power over most criminal law, including hate crime law, and as I understand it, this legislation was about hate crime, rather than about discrimination in work or in the provision of goods and services.

        1. Jock, I understand you and can’t express enough how much I agree with you. It’s disgusting that LGBT people are treated in such a manner in such a developed country.

          I’m just very conscious of people who just seem to attack on this thread without understanding at least a little of the history.

        2. But according to HRW “While LGB persons are protected against discrimination in employment, national law does not explicitly protect them from discrimination in other spheres, such as access to goods and services, including housing”

          Yes, I think this bill was to do with hate crime and enhanced penalities…

  21. Well it’s a Roman Catholic Country so it does not come as any surprise. The fight for our rights continues.

    1. This is a rather silly arguement.

      Spain, Portugal, Argentine and Belgium are catholic countries.

      Italy’s problems do not lie solely with the church,.

      The culture of corruption, nepotism; the appalling status of women and LGBT people and the lack of press freedom are down to the Italian political class – not solely the church.

      Berlusconi is a pedo, yet because he controls the press coverage he receives this is not regarded as seriously as it is elsewhere.

      1. Where are the headquarters of the RCC?

        1. in the independent state of vatican

  22. Please, can you not generalise and call us all vile?? Yes, we do have a horrible political system, and our prime minister is a prick, but there’s also nice people in Italy, you know…

    1. Si, e’ tutti gli italiani buoni e bravi sono coloro che son andatati via da quel paese di merda.

    2. Paddyswurds 27 Jul 2011, 8:04pm

      …Se cammina come un’anatra e parla come un’anatra, allora è probabilmente è un’anatra

    3. Of course there is.

      But where are the people who are willing to fight for a real democracy in Italy.

      Italy is in dire need of massive and immediate reform.

      The lack of democracy in Italy is truly disgraceful.

  23. Italy is just another 3rd world country that has some really nice art hanging on the walls. I left there 15 years ago and I will never go back. They will never get ride of the likes of Berlusca or the catholic church. I think 2000 years of history has more than proved both those points.

    1. oh right, thanks a lot bastian…. so one one side we got our homophobic nationals who hate us for being gay, on the other side we got the international gay community who despise us for being italian….

      1. Paddyswurds 27 Jul 2011, 8:05pm

        Se cammina come un’anatra e parla come un’anatra, allora è probabilmente è un’anatra

        1. Jock S. Trap 29 Jul 2011, 8:23am

          Italian it may be Paddys… but you still add nothing. Indeed with your fascination with ducks do please duck off.

  24. Spanner1960 27 Jul 2011, 5:59pm

    I was once told there are only two types of men that understand their own sexuality: Gay men and Italians. It’s just a shame they vote in such a scumbag as Berlusconi. Oh well. Time will tell…

    1. We get the political leaders we deserve.
      What does that say about Italy?

  25. The main problem with Italy’s homophobia is indeed the catholic church. Not the simple institution, but rather the way it has penetrated (no pun intended) every aspect of culture and society, to the point that most italians now, whether they are religious or not, will think being gay is a disease/perversion and so on.

  26. I fail to see how being opposed to gay rights yet having had affairs with minors makes Berlusconi a hypocrite. Sex between two consenting adults of the same sex is in no way comparable with and adult having sex with a minor.

  27. To label a whole country vile because of its scummy politicians is the kind of knee jerk reaction that perpetuates bigotry. If we judged ourselves based on our elitist, grasping, war mongering, self serving, mendacious politicians then we would be in no position to judge ANYONE else “vile”.

    1. Massive, endemic corruption
      Lack of press freedom
      Women suffering appalling discrimination.
      LGBT people suffering from appalling discrimination.

      These are the reasons we should condemn Italy.

  28. A couple of years ago, an Italian reporter described Britain as “cold and puritian.” Any attempt to justify Italy’s refusal to give all its citizens equal rights is shameful. I’ve travelled all over Europe and spend half the year in Spain (where they have civil unions, yet thousands marched protesting when it was brought into law) and yet being gay in the UK is still where I feel most free!

    1. We have marriage in Spain, not civil unions

      1. Bebert – you can call it marriage, you can call domestic partenrship, put any moniker you want on it, but I don’t see any same sex couples marrying in churches in Spain. If you can’t get married in a church surely it must therefore be a civil union? As in the the UK, equal rights across the board have not yet been met ,so we have to keep chipping away until everyone can get married in a church (if they so choose). Then, perhaps, if we want to use titles like “marriage” we can.

        1. its about equality not semantics, spain has given same sex relationships same rights as those enjoyed by mixed couples, church weddings are legislated by the concordat and thefore to accomodate gay church weddings, changes to the concordat would have to be made, not sure that vatican would want to do that

        2. A marriage in a registry office is still a marriage though, isn’t it? Regardless of whether it could be performed in a church or not (eg between a Muslim and a Christian).
          I believe in France only a civil marriage is recognised by law, an additional church wedding is optional. Sounds like the best solution to me.

  29. Rashid Karapiet 27 Jul 2011, 10:30pm

    How boringly predictable – all that machismo – they’ve got a lot to hide, I reckon.

  30. Rashid Karapiet 27 Jul 2011, 10:57pm

    Re: the Belgrano Patrick Lyster-Todd needs to get HIS facts straight. It was steaming away from the conflict zone when Margaret Thatcher decided to save her reputation and her career by ordering it to be sunk. Has Mr.Lyster-Todd forgotten that memorable occasion when Diana ? – can’t recall her surname – caught out the Iron Lady on a radio phone-in – Mrs.Thatcher actually spluttered in confusion. Poor lady, she’s paying for it all now, alas.

    1. Yes Rashid, a great moment when the Iron lady was caught out when confronted with the fact the Belgrano was torpedoed as it was steaming away.
      The Italian vote is getting closer. Give it time. Berlusconi is on the way out as is Rupert Murdoch and the Catholic church no longer carry the congregations they once did.

      The Labour right wing nutters here in Australia are no different than their Italian counterparts. We expect better too.

  31. Another Hannah 27 Jul 2011, 11:49pm

    Roman Catholacism I’m afraid. Some will be sufficiently independently minded to ignore, but many will be defferential, and others will be grovelling for favours. I was brought up RC, but since they were really bad to me, my gran, my mum, and my brother, we left long ago. The roman catholic church accounts scraped back into profit this year, but they have been selling assets like mad. For their rewarding evil (see child molestors) and trying to punish people who are good they are not doing well. Italy faces huge debt problems, and maybe you noticed backwards and unrewarding Britain is failing too.

  32. Rich (original) 28 Jul 2011, 12:33am

    Bravo, Italians!

    1. Your comments get stupider by the day, and utterly repetitive – and that in itself is an achievement. Brava, Richl!

      1. Jock S. Trap 28 Jul 2011, 7:25am

        Agreed, Will. IT has become so boring.

    2. rich original, sounds like chocolate biscuits

      1. Only even more poisonous than sugar (though certainly less addictive).

    3. Dear sweet, silly Rich. I’m sure you will find much to cry “Bravo!” in the Italians’ attitudes towards Muslims too.

  33. Well it is Italy’s choice on how to govern.

    With any luck we will be out of the EU soon, then the UK can govern the UK.

    1. Jock S. Trap 28 Jul 2011, 7:27am

      Maybe but Basic Human Rights are everyones business, Italian or not.

    2. And then the Law and Justice Tories will be able to espouse their true, vile bigotry with no-one to watch them.

      no thank you.

  34. I’m loving all these British folk shouting about Italian democracy being a farce. Have you seen our ruling class? If not, I suggest you take a good look. You’ll either laugh or weep.

    1. Jock S. Trap 28 Jul 2011, 7:29am

      And yet this is about Italy rejecting an anti-homophobia Bill while expecting those very people being discriminated against to pay taxes like everyone else.

      Granted we may not yet have Full Equality but we are a lot further down the road of it.

      1. My equal standing before the law isn’t really what I’m worried about when me and my boyfriend, or my friends are walking around this town at night, violent morons are the more pressing concern. You can legislate all you want, that’s not what changes attitudes.

        And the point I was making, is that certain people on here seem to think that Britain is somehow superior to Italy in terms of its democratic institutions, when both are about level pegging, which is to say, not democratic in the slightest. Both peoples are ruled by parasitic oligarchs.

        1. I’m not sure that’s entirely correct, Ewan – when laws were brought in to combat racism attitudes changed, I don’t think it was the other way round. Sure, racism hasn’t been wholly eradicated (I don’t think it ever will be) but overt racism is no longer socially acceptable. I think much the same happens with minority sexuality and legislation.
          And you can say a lot of things about Cameron and Clegg (and for that matter Blair) but I don’t think you can really call them ‘parasitic oligarchs’.

          1. I’d say it’s down to the education of successive generations that’s improved the race situation in this country, as well as those in the public eye, popular culture etc, and it’s the same with homophobia. If a population changes its attitude purely on the say so of the state then we’re pretty screwed as a siecies. And aye, Cameron, Clegg and Blair are parasitic oligarchs. None of these three are interested in social justice or the improvment of the wellbeing of the people. All they care about is business. Money. And in the case of Cameron and Blair, imperialism.

          2. Well, I would argue that when homophobic crime became a recognised legal category it was more useful in shifting attitudes than education or popular culture, though it is of course usually a combination of several different elements working simultaneously.
            I still don’t know how anyone can be both parasitic and an oligarch (oligarchs usually are surrounded by parasites) but, given the loss of power and influence once they’re out of office (eg Blair) I still don’t think you can say they’re part of an oligarchy. The burlesque Berlusconi, now there’s an oligarch!

        2. Jock S. Trap 28 Jul 2011, 1:08pm

          Yet didn’t we vote who governed this country?

          As will the Italians.

          Guess it’s easy to blame a lack of democracy when things didn’t go the way you wanted it but it doesn’t mean it’s less democractic it just means people voted differently to you.

          Naughty people I know but hey ho, that is the way of things whether we like it or not.

  35. Gay Daily Mail Reader 28 Jul 2011, 6:56am

    It sounds like a case of the tail wagging the dog. How much influence does the Vatican have over Italian law. Italy has traditionally been one of the most progressive countries when it came to gay rights, decriminalising it ib 1852. Under Mussolini’s Fascists homosexuality was disaproved of but not criminalised although the age of consent was raised to 20.

    1. Mussolini rounded up Italian homosexuals and imprisoned them on coastal islands.

      Mussolini also complained to Hitler that he had surrounded himself with too many homosexuals.

      Mussolin’s grand daughter, an Italian Member of Parliament, is a coalition partner of Burlusconi’s government. She has rallied against GLBT rights.

  36. LGBT rights in Italy

    Public opinion

    Due to the influence of the Roman Catholic Church, attitudes towards homosexuality in Italy tend to be more conservative than in other parts of Western Europe. Nevertheless, there is a significant liberal tradition, particularly in the biggest cities (compared to the more conservative reality of Italian provinces).

    A January 2010 poll found that 51.0% of the population believed that homosexuality should be regarded as equal to heterosexuality, 35.0% believed that homosexuality should be tolerated as long as it’s not ostentatious, while 9.0% defined it as immoral.[15] There were substantial differences between different age categories: while 62.1% of people aged 25–34 believed homosexuality to be equal to heterosexuality, only 33.9% of those aged over 65 agreed.[16] Regional differences were also present: whereas 60.1% of respondents from the North-Western region believed that homosexuality and heNorth-Western region believed that homosexuality and heterosexuality was equal, this fell to only 39.0% in the Islands region (Sicily and Sardinia).[15]

    The same poll also asked people what their reaction would be if they found out that their child was gay or lesbian. 53.5% replied that they would accept the fact without any problems, 13.7% would merely tolerate the fact as long as their child didn’t mention it again, 12.7% would not accept it and 2.2% would consider sending their child to a doctor. Women were found to be around 8% more accepting than men. There were strong geographical differences. In the Northeast, 71.2% of respondents would accept their child, compared to 58.4% in the Centre, 56.2% in the Northwest and only 43.6% in the South

  37. i remember watching a tv programme saying that the italian word for gay literally means, the receiver, and that it was quite common for hetrosexual men to have sex with other men – as long as they were not the receiver – indicative of a church state much?

  38. Isn’t Italy home to the Vatican? In that case it would be a shocker if Gays were to get their rightful dues. The Demonic Illuminati Catholic Church will never allow that unless GOD really steps in.

    1. Jock S. Trap 1 Aug 2011, 10:18am

      The Vatican is an independent state Putt.

      1. It is very naive, Jock, to think that the Vatican with its economic and political power in Italy does not influence Italian politics. 
        Overall I find quite disconcerting the level of anti-Italian bias on these pages. Italy is purely a little less evolved than it’s European partners with regards to LGBT right. It’s scandalous, sure, but does it warrant the level of anti-Italy bias I’ve seen in these comments? I’m not sure. 

        ‘Appalling conditions of women’? SteveC, what exactly are you talking about??

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