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Appeal for witnesses after homophobic attack in central London

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  1. Ok I would normally say its a coincidence but not anymore.

    1. Good man. x

      I think that all people are made the same, and we don’t do ANYONE a favour by not making them accountable.

  2. The two guys attacked in Vauxhall by a gang of 8 to 10 men last week and now this story. In this event and has been the case with the majority of attacks on the LGBT community in London the assailants were black.

    1. Spanner1960 22 Jul 2011, 6:45pm

      Will somebody please eject this person for pointing out the very large pachyderm in the parlour.

      1. Have you done a statistically valid analysis of homophobic attacks across central London over a reasonable period to determine the accuracy of what you hint at? Taking into account the proportions of different ethnicities resident in central London, are those committing assaults disproportionately from particular ethnic groups?

      2. its a fact spanner please go do ur reseach before calling people racist it happen to my friends and i In 2008 i was attacked by black men and my mates the same thing happen to them

        1. So something happens to you and that makes it an epidemic problem within an entire community. Glad to see your not bigheaded or not I got beaten up by a french guy once does that mean all french people are homophobic and have a problem with gays inherent in there community?

        2. The fact is has happened to some people, including yo and others you know does not mean that it is wide spread … there is no evidence and to prejudge is prejudiced and arguably racist

    2. mark Seeds 22 Jul 2011, 6:53pm

      Ssssssh! We’re not allowed to talk about this!

      1. Staircase2 22 Jul 2011, 9:31pm

        This is racist bollocks
        Show me the evidence to suggest that all these attacks on LGBT people are at the hands of black people…
        You can say whatever you like – but the point is you have to therefore defend what you’re saying with evidence – you cant just do so on hearsay and fabricated half-truths in support of a racist agenda.
        The problem needs to be sorted – being racist doesn’t do that – whichever gene-pool the attackers may come from…

        1. I do not have the particular evidence to hand however i arrived at that conclusion based on personal experience and the experience of other gays. All the prejudice i have experienced has come from ethnic minorities (in particular pakistanis) and from talking to other people i think a lot of other gay people would concur. My flatmate is from Peckham but originally from Sierra Leone and she readily admits that black people (especially ones originating from Africa and the Caribean) are very hostile towards homosexuality. Your obviously very offended by this but i am merely reciting my own experiences and that of many other people i know. I would be far more comfortable holding hands with a guy in Liverpool than i would be in Peckham!

          1. Your limited experiences still don’t prove a thing, this is an insanely incorrect stereotype. I live in Peckham and the gays and lesbians are flourishing like never before, no one seems to care, not even the thugs around here. Yeah some people bad mouth them, but that’s present everywhere unfortunately, seems like you’re just out to point the finger mate – don’t be as sad as these homophobes, keep your ignorant and bordering on racist OPINION(S) to yourself.

            In my experience drunken white chavs are the most commonly homophobic men I’ve seen, this doesn’t mean a thing. Your opinion doesn’t hold much water outside of Your Universe.

          2. theotherone 25 Jul 2011, 12:10pm

            it’s White Folk who abuse me.

          3. peckham is a dump , like most of london now , oh and very obviously homophobia is another big problem in the black community .

        2. There is an issue within the black community towards gay people which needs to be addressed. Why do you accuse people of being racist because they dare mention the word black?

          I don’t know if the police keep figures of ethic/colour makeup when recording these crimes that are reported.Anyway who really cares about these figures crime against gay people is UNDER REPORTED, period.

          Let hope they catch these scum asap.


    3. Jock S. Trap 23 Jul 2011, 8:17am

      May I remind you that Ruby Thomas who killed Ian Baynham was white.

      1. Jock S. Trap 23 Jul 2011, 8:22am

        Though why we need to argue on race is beyond me, lets focus on homophobia and why it is happening.

        1. @Jock S Trap

          Whilst some homophobic attacks will be carried out by people of all races, people of all religions, people of all political views, people of all ages and nationalities, people of all social classes etc etc – it is important to do three things – i) focus on the homophobia and not be distracted by spurious groupings of those who may conduct such reprehensible behaviour ii) Seek to eliminate homophobia by education that is appropriately targetted but also general and iii) ensure whilst targetting homophobia we do not allow ourselves to become prejudiced in terms of racism, islamophobia, ageism, etc etc – lets learn from the wise words of the Norwegian Prime Minister yesterday – he said that the attacks would not stop Norway being Norway – lets have the same attitude and not let homophobia change our attitude. If the hunted become the hunters – we are tainted by a similar aggression.

          1. Jock S. Trap 23 Jul 2011, 12:18pm

            Thanks Stu, glad you agree with me.

      2. Hi Jock, unfortunately Ruby Thomas had ingratiated herself into a group of black youths. She mimicked their style etc- her facebook page was found to be full of her juvenile ramblings in a patois style. She was just a mixed up piece of sh1t who thought this was the way the black community behave. She was either ignorant and scum from the off or ended up mixing with the wrong crowd.

        1. Jock S. Trap 23 Jul 2011, 2:05pm

          But nevertheless old enough to know right from wrong.

          I guess if we’re too busy making excuses for who and why, we’re too busy to deal with the issue at hand of homophobia.

          1. So, CMYB/Enoch/Steve, you’re saying White is Black in this case. That’s rather typical of the travesty of logic involved in fascist propaganda.

        2. @CMYB: “who thought this was the way the black community behave”.
          She must indeed have been pretty damn’ stupid to have thought that all people of African or Afro-Caribbean descent in the UK behave in one way.

          1. Jock S. Trap 24 Jul 2011, 8:27am

            Exactly, Rehan!

    4. Butcha are Blanche, ya are.

      1. Being racist, that is. Addressed to nut job Spanner.

  3. Robert J Brown 22 Jul 2011, 4:27pm

    Let’s hope someone recognises them.

    Also, Villiers Street happens to be near G.A.Y. / Heaven so there may be more homophobia in gay orientated areas.

    Am not saying it is right, of course it is not, however let us not get hysterical.

    Once again let us hope that these two are identified quickly and the man presses charges.

    1. The pictures are quite clear and it should be possible for police to establish whether these two can be eliminated from enquiries or arrested

  4. Robert J Brown 22 Jul 2011, 4:29pm

    Not nice to say however maybe this will give the government and local authorities the incentive to start doing education within our schools and colleges.

  5. wonder would we have a Brixton Riots part 2 if a bunch of gay guys decided to beat the cr’p out of some black lads for no reason? we seem to be taking it lying down.

    1. Staircase2 22 Jul 2011, 9:34pm

      How is this relevant?
      2 people attacked him who happen to be black.
      Are you honestly suggesting that a sensible way to deal with these two people is to go and attack two innocent black people in Brixton?!
      I can’t believe you lot sometimes – its like consciousness kindgarten 101

      1. I couldn’t agree more Staircase2, you can say anything you want these days and claim it’s not racist – but the way it’s said proves otherwise. And when someone points the finger at something genuinely racist they’re accused of playing the race card, haha – racism is not a card game people. It’s a vile and very much alive problem.

      2. Look Staircase, people are angry and are looking for someone to blame. It may not be right, but it is what’s happening nonetheless.

        I’ve personally had two homophobic incidents in my life. Both were by black guys. That’s not racism, that’s a description.

        However, equally I’ve met lots and lots of black people who have had no issue with my sexuality at all.

        I think there is a cultural issue here (combined with ‘murder lyrics’ aimed at young black men and women) but we should also remember that homophobia can occur anywhere and with anyone. Class, race and gender play a minor part.

        Perhaps we need to start learning how to defend ourselves in the first instance though. Being sensible, not making ourselves a target and so on…

        1. Staircase2 25 Jul 2011, 9:38pm

          People here are ALWAYS this ‘angry’ – it doesn’t matter what the story’s actually about the ‘anger’ is still the same.

          And its always knee-jerk, reactionary and completely unrelated to factual evidence.

          I think what most of you lot need to do is start hanging out with black gay men and women – it might broaden your horizons somewhat on this and other issues….

          1. But staircase, that’s the point I’m trying to make – there is NO factual evidence to work with. I think race and sexuality has been largely ignored and as a result people jump to their own conclusions.

            Equally, it’s important not to dismiss someone (and i’m not aiming this at you) who’s very real experiences of homophobia have continuously been at the hands of a particular person, race or culture.

            We know that sexuality doesn’t depend on race or skin colour but many people believe otherwise – “It’s a western disease” and the like.

            I guess the point I’m trying to make is that while I agree there’s a lot of people on here that need to be a little less ignorant and bigoted there are equally lots of people that have suffered bad experiences regarding homophobia from a particular race. That doesn’t make them people racist and in my opinion it does need investigating because there could be, as I suspect, a very real problem which needs addressing.

  6. It is NOT a racist comment to say that the proportion of attacks carried out on gay males by black/Asian people is higher than other ethnicities.Even in a relatively small town such as where I live I cannot recall the last time I was homophobically targeted by a white person.Yet in the last year alone I have faced homophobic verbal abuse by both black & Asian males! Clearly it would be folly to state that homophobic attacks are only perpetrated by non-white males,but it really should be time to gather these statistice NATIONWIDE so we can ALL see the true figures,not just the London homophobic crime figures.

    1. Staircase2 22 Jul 2011, 9:36pm

      Yes it would be a folly – one of these two people is a woman.
      Two of the three people who attacked Ian Baynham were women too.
      And given, as you rightly say, that there is not a ‘gathering of these statistics’ – how is it that you along with everyone else is so sure of the data then?

    2. It IS racist if you can’t provide any legitimate evidence for your claims. Saying “true figures” and actually providing true figures are 2 totally different things. You’re discriminating on the basis of ignorance right now.

      1. There are no official figures that link race of offender with homophobic crimes. It is mere speculation based on news stories and fear of crime. Maybe there should be figures, but until there are it is at best speculation, at worst racism.

      2. Is there any sociological studies regarding this?

      3. @Menderin

        I’m not aware of any, it certainly would be a good area for a sociologist or criminologst to consider …

        1. True, would be fascinating and elightening material.

    3. Agreed , there should be racial and gender profiling(apparently one of these alleged attackers is female, must be the frank bruno in bad weave job) of those who commit homophobic hate crimes.

    4. I live in the US and I’m a crossdresser and I’ve never been harressed by a white person, only blacks. Carrying a concealed gun is legal next month, I’m sure it will make things worse.

  7. Central London has CCTV everywhere. Surely the police can follow the cameras to ascertain where they went and what night bus they boarded. They would have also been caught on the bus CCTV so they could also identify where they got off and it is likely that they got off at the nearest point to their destination. So closing in on them would be easy – unless of course they used an illegal cab.

    As they were by Charring Cross station heading in the direction of the Strand, I would bet they were looking to pick up a bus to the South East to New Cross or Lewisham maybe?

    I hope they catch these reprobates and put them away along with a swift deportation if they are not British.

  8. More blacks are dying of HIV/AID than any other group and yet they think the answer is violence. The answer is education to teach blacks how to use protection to save their lives, but this means they have to come out of the closet to talk about it and they think that they can not do this because it will make them look bad when they are dying by the millions of a disease that some say was created by evil governments to kill off blacks and gays because they are not wanted. The way the Christians act towards gays this seems more true today that the story some monkey had the disease. Black people need to work together to teach their people not kill them.

    1. Spanner1960 22 Jul 2011, 6:48pm

      This has nothing to do with HIV/AIDS.
      I have seen HUGE arguments erupt when it has been pointed out that gay people cannot change their sexuality any more than black people can change the colour of their skin. Quote: “They were born black and proud, and we are just a bunch of perverts and paedophiles…”

      1. I’ve been lurking on these boards for sometime now, but I feel compelled to wade into this debate and add my two pence.

        As a black, British gay guy of Ghanaian heritage, I cannot begin to describe my disappointment and worry when I see reports of homophobic violence perpertrated at the hands of black people. Incidences like this only serve to fuel more hate and animosity towards black people, which, in a sense, I can understand. However, I think the danger comes when people FAIL to realise that there are MANY black gay people who abhor these crimes and feel the same climate of fear many of you may experience on a day to day basis. I have been the victim of two separate homophobic attacks this year, both at the hands of black people. I sometimes feel that because I am black, I am an easier target for homophobes. So, where do I stand? I sense the rising hostility towards the people who the indigenous people of the U.K see as the root cause of homophobia in thes country.

        1. @Bob

          Some people of every culture and background will jump to conclusions and stereotype – unfortunately some of those are so called “right minded” indigenous people too . thankfully whilst they are vocal on these boards, there are many people who recognise that there are more black people who abhor homophobia than those who perpetrate it

        2. Staircase2 25 Jul 2011, 9:45pm

          Dear, Bob

          these people aren’t necessarily ‘indigenous’ though – there’s very few people in the UK who are – most people in the cities have very mixed heritage.

          And homophobia was very much alive and kicking in the UK long before black people started coming here in larger numbers.

          In fact, there’s considerable evidence to show that it was, instead, the English (/British people) who introduced the notion of homophobia to all of its empire.
          It was the English who introduced anti-gay laws into most of its colonies. Those very same (now) ex-colonies who’s native peoples wish to proclaim homosexuality as a ‘western disease’ and that it is somehow ‘traditional’ to hate gay people.

          The truth is very different. Its actually homoPHOBIA which is a western disease not homosexuality….

  9. PumpkinPie 22 Jul 2011, 6:43pm

    Here we go again with the racism! We need more LGBT people of colour posting here to tell some of you where to stick it. Perhaps they don’t feel welcome?
    As for the actual story, this is bizarre. What kind of young couple just randomly attacks someone without provocation? Hope those scumbags get what’s coming to them.

    1. Is it racism to point out a fact? The people who committed this and numerous other crimes were BLACK. take your liberal head out of your as* and look at the reality

      1. Staircase2 22 Jul 2011, 9:37pm

        No – its racist to MAKE UP ‘facts’ to support a racist view point.
        These ‘facts’ don’t actually exist…

    2. Spanner1960 22 Jul 2011, 6:52pm

      Now this is more like the comment we have come to expect.
      What is racist about stating FACTS?

      It’s no good getting all pompous and PC. The singular fact remains that the predominance of homophobic attacks are generated by immigrants that cannot accept our way of life is different from the country they have come from, and in general, black people are more inclined to actually do something about it.
      If you care to disprove any of this, please feel free to show any statistics that prove contrary to the general opinion of most people on here.
      ie: Put up or shut up.

      1. Sister Mary Clarence 22 Jul 2011, 9:11pm

        And what colour was the victim? Doesn’t mention it here, so I see you’re all assuming he was white.

        Also why not take a few minutes to google the history of homophobia in African. Much is spoken of how homosexuality is a western disease in many parts of Africa, but it takes about two minutes to find out that homophobia is the western disease that has infected Africa, in much the same was that we have the Americans to thank for arming Bin Laden and fueling all the Islamic extremist problems that followed,

        White Europeans taught Africans to hate gays and hundreds, if not thousands of years, of tolerance, acceptance and understanding of us was written out of African societies.

        You reap what you sow. Africans were indoctrinated and forced to believe that gay was evil, and in time they came to believe it.

      2. Sister Mary Clarence 22 Jul 2011, 9:19pm

        Africans come to this country with their inherited beliefs and they look at British society and often see it as valueless and morally corrupt, as often it is.

        To then think that a bit of diversity training will convince them that a lifetime of belief is wrong just doesn’t cut it.

        There are many things that European missionaries could have taught Africa that would have added to and enriched our culture but instead they taught us intolerance and hatred of brothers and sisters.

        Yes, there is a lot of violence and hatred towards gays from black people but essentially that was the idea when people sailed from foreign lands to ‘educate’ us.

        1. What bollix you talk. Our society is deemed as valueless and morally corrupt by Africans who have spent the last quarter century screwing and fighting while being propped up in their moral and commercial torpour by the white man? I suppose next you’ll say they inherited these problems from the white man. EVERYONE inherited problems from everyone else. They get on with it, without being ruled by superstition and laziness.

          1. Who said Africans were involved?

          2. actually western society is screwing over african countries regularly with unfair trade and corruption from our side so I think you should do some research before you decide who’s propping who up.

      3. Jock S. Trap 23 Jul 2011, 8:31am


        There is absolutely no evidence yet that these two are ‘immigrants’.

        Would it fair to say that in an area with a large population of Black and Asian people crime will will be committed by Black or Asian people but that in no way means crimes are worse and no white people do crimes.

        There are plenty of cases in predominately white areas where crimes, as you would expect, whether homophobic or otherwise are committed by white people.

        Crimes do not suddenly go to scale depending on who commits them.

        The problem here is education, or rather lack of it. Section 28 may well have been gone for many years now but nothing was put together to replace it and teach about Gay history and Gay relationships.

        Education clearly not just in schools but also at a citizenship level too.

    3. Here we go again with the racism!

      Oh unless I need to go and get my eyes tested the two people in the photos are black… already pointed out why is it racist to mention the colour of their skin when it’s there for all to see?

      You know before I actually opened the story to read it I knew, I just knew someone would shout racism. God my prediction skills are getting better!!

      1. Staircase2 22 Jul 2011, 9:40pm

        Its not racist to talk about the two people involved (although they are both described under the photo as ‘suspects’)
        What is racist here is: 1) the idea that its only black people who carry out these attacks – with spanner going on so stupidly to suggest its all ‘immigrants’ and 2) the general outpouring of resentment, half truth and general bigotry that surrounds the conversation.
        You should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

        1. Jock S. Trap 23 Jul 2011, 8:41am


          My partner and I have suffered homophobia at the hands of white, black and asian people.

          I have suffered racism at the hands of asian and black people and my partner from white people.

          I can quite honestly say that the words Homophobia and Racism themselves, although are words of hate and discrimination, do not discriminate on who uses them. They feel the same whoever uses them to whoever is on the recieving end of them.

          Discrimination does not become less affective if a white person uses it or more affective if a black person uses it.

          It hurts and is hatred Whoever uses them.

          1. Alf N Spit 25 Jul 2011, 1:03pm

            Simplistic people love a scapegoat, and “immigrant” is one of the perennial clichés that allows the more stupid amongsts us to blame the “outsider”, all the way back to the expulsion of the Jews under King John.

        2. Spanner1960 23 Jul 2011, 9:04am

          I mention “immigrants” as a general heading. I do not specifically mention any race or colour. It is common knowledge that countries such as Lithuania, Latvia and even Poland are strongly homophobic, particularly those with strongly religious backgrounds.
          The point I am saying is immigration as a whole is one of the major reasons homophobic attacks are on the increase. Unfortunately, not everywhere in the world is as enlightened and liberal as the UK.

          1. You may have a tenuous point, Spanner but it certainly is still erroneous as it stereotypes Baltic, African or whoever as homophobic and honestly many are not

            Secondly, much homophobia comes from white Anglo Saxon men …. that does not fit any official figures (there are none) but my experience – now I dont become all hysterical and say white rabid right wing extremists are necessarily all homophobic (some are, some arent) – but I dont know the political, religious or other inclinations of the white homophobes I have seen – so jumping to conclusions about others based on appearance or ethnicity is dangerous and prejudiced

          2. Alf N Spit 25 Jul 2011, 1:07pm

            Just your perception, nutjob, fashioned by your own prejudice.

      2. @Paul

        Jumping to conclusions that there is a link between race and homophobic crime (without clear uncontrovertable evidence from authoritative sources who would have the appropriate data) is similar to those who speculated that the attrocities in Norway yesterday were by Al Qaeda or similar – there were speculative (but ungrounded) reasons that might cause this to be one explanation – but the facts clearly do not support that. We don’t have to facts re homophobic crime being linked to race – until we do its speculative and arguably racist to stereotype and jump to that conclusion.

        1. Spanner1960 23 Jul 2011, 12:52pm

          Well, under the Data Protection Act, anybody is allowed to request the statistics from the police. I for one would like to actually see what proportion of crime is committed by immigrants, and for that matter, race. It would put this argument to bed once and for all. I suspect nobody has done so though as they already know the answers. There’s no smoke without fire.

          1. You are entitled to make a request under the data protection act for information connected to you as an individual – not about general principles or those affecting others – so your use of legislation is incorrect.

            You might get an answer under the freedom of information act – but only if the information is recorded … Certainly when I left the police aroun 8-10 years ago we did not record whether offences were perpetrated by immigrants or nto (and then how do you define immigrant – first generation, second generation, those with leave to remain, those seeking asylum????)
            You can suspect all you like and ay there is no smoke without fire – I would point you to todays headlines in The Sun which they would see as reasonable and that there is no smoke without fire – but indeed inaccurate, wrong and mindless speculation

  10. we’ve let Europe become over run and destroyed by muslims (see Oslo bombing), immigrants abusing us in the UK, its nowhere but down from here.

    1. Spanner1960 22 Jul 2011, 6:56pm

      I think the tolerance is beginning to wear very thin right across the Western world.
      Sooner or later there will be blood. Instead of berating one of the most undervalued politicians of the 20th century, people will realise that Enoch Powell may have appeared racist, but in fact, he was totally correct in his predictions.

      1. Sister Mary Clarence 22 Jul 2011, 9:20pm

        Thanks for that Enoch

        1. I have no issue with the skin tone of these people.

          It’s just strange and obvious how the western version of this middle east religions, “Forced” these people their version of Christianity, and we end up with this.

          Not too different from Ghana rounding up the gays and Ugandas genocide on them till AID was pulled all paid for by American Evangelics.

          No more weapons for the African political classes.

          I gave up on this that and the next African famine when I read the UN report that the UN and EU nations are actively stopping that money getting in as they know it will go to the dictators and war machine of these countries.

          I watched a war report by by a UN ambassador and he basically stated that he is not allowed by UN rules to give these poor people any money.

          Look it up. YOUTUBE. “Sudan Ethiopia” etc etc etc.

          Then of course, her pope with his Condoms CAUSE Aids.

    2. Staircase2 22 Jul 2011, 9:41pm

      And now its about ‘muslims’
      See – THAT is why people are calling you all racists – simply because you ARE

      1. It doesn’t matter what we are called. We know bigotry when we see it, and it’s endemic to blacks and Muslims. You’re simply trying to obfuscate the issue by pretending there isn’t a problem specific to specific groups.

        1. Worst of it is.

          It was the European Missionaries that ruined these places with the Christ crap
          and horrifically enough it was the missionaries that buggered it all up.

          Hence we have the good Christians of Ghana And Uganda, let alone Herr Pope claiming that
          condoms CAUSE Aids and HIV.

          1. Alf N Spit 25 Jul 2011, 1:12pm

            I doubt these two thugs are religious. Just the EDL troll pushing his agenda again. No doubt he’s being tracked by the authorities since the Norway bombing.

      2. friday jones 22 Jul 2011, 11:14pm

        Perhaps they’re mentioning Muslims because “verily Allah is severe in punishment.”

        The building is full of smoke and you’re calling our lungs racist for coughing. Pandering to religious groups is incompatible with an LGBT rights agenda, QED.

        1. DOUBLE STANDARDS 23 Jul 2011, 11:52am

          The building is full of smoke from a (bbc quote) “blond christian fundamentalist” – who supported Geert Wilders and was anti-muslim.. “the largest gun massacre in modern history” – We need to ask why a small number of white people can be radicalised by right wing extremists? -Some of these people can hold racist right wing views and but never do anything about it -(sympathisers) and a small mnority act upon it. People on these comment boards need to take a long hard look at themselves and their views.

          1. DOUBLE STANDARDS 23 Jul 2011, 12:03pm

            My point is that it is easy to jump to conclusions to support our narrow minded views. The race of people comitting crimes may not always be relevent. What is relevent is their motivations, beliefs and justifications.. which may happen be common amongst people of certain groups.

        2. Alf N Spit 25 Jul 2011, 1:15pm

          Clearly this troll is not even gay. “LGBT rights agenda” lol. Only a fundie would say something like that.

      3. Religion is not a race.

        Its a belief. A thought. A pretense.

        Something handed down to you by your lesser educated elders.

        It is not the way you were born. You either chose your religion or at least it was chosen for you.

        Can you become Homosexual.

        Would you choose that state of being?

        I spent 45 years of my life, having been continually told that being the way I am, is an affront, being beaten up because my mother gave birth to me and here I am an affront to your religion.

        Well Tough.

        If you don’t like it here p!ss off back to your desert and take your idiotic religion with you.

        Anyone for 9 year olds…..

    3. Jock S. Trap 23 Jul 2011, 8:45am


      Another rash statement and proof why we should never jump to conclusions.

      The bomber actually is believed to be a right-winger with anti-Muslim views.

      Will you retract your comment?

      1. Jock S. Trap 23 Jul 2011, 8:47am

        Oh and to you who think it is important, the bomber is white!

        1. and has links to the EDL. proof that hatred just breeds psycho’s

          1. Jock S. Trap 25 Jul 2011, 8:03am

            But mainly an extreme Christian which does beg the question…

            Will Christians be subject to the same hatred as Muslims even though most of them, like most Muslims, don’t agree with the bomber and his reasoning and effect?

          2. @Jock S Trap

            I think the 1500 page document points more to a right wing extremist as opposed to a religious background. Yes he identifies as Christian and has explored some fundamentalist Christian websites. The media have connected to the Christian label (perhaps because so many of them presumed Al Qaeda initially). We dont have the full details of what he intended or how he was motivated as yet and probably the Norwegian authorities dont have a full picture as yet – so we speculate. However, the 1500 page manifesto points less to faith as his issue – he describes himself as a lone person part of a network of anti marxists with right wing views and empathy with EDL and Melanie Phillips!

            I think we have to be careful about speculating about Christian motivation but if it is an element then it will be interesting to see if this affects perceptions.

          3. Jock S. Trap 25 Jul 2011, 10:02am

            Actually Stu he describes himself as a fundamentist Christian with extremist right wing views.

            But either way, you miss my point, I wasn’t so much as speculating as making a point.

            Point is if a Muslim does something negative there are too many people who then go out and target all Muslims they see, you know that, I know that.

            What I’m asking is will the same happen to Christians? Will Christians be treated the same? I’m guessing not.

            Double standards because this happens to be a Christian country or because it’s better to only go for Muslims?

            I’m in no way wishing any harm to anyone, far from it, in case people think that but merely point out the double standards on religion most of which is as Evil as it comes yet we treat different religions as more or less Evil when they are pretty much all the same.

          4. @Jock S Trap

            I did take your point, and thats what I meant (in part) when I said it would be interesting to see how this may impact on the perceptions of people. In terms of perceptions I mean seeing terrorism or extremism as being from more than one likely source, in terms of attitudes to religion etc etc.

            I can see where you are coming from, but I don’t see it as double standards. I see it as a reasonable response when contextualised to a scenario where significantly more people in Europe identify (whether in terms of label or ardent belief) as Christian compared to Muslim, there will be a reluctance to blanketly condemn a faith – condemn those who are extremists but not the faith itself. This has always been my approach – there are people in the Christian faith and Islam who are evil, but the vast majority are not. Its complex, media manipulation plays a part as does interventions from EDL, Muslim groups, atheist groups and the waters become muddy.

            Re Norway we speculate tho

          5. @Jock S Trap

            Not wanting to contradict you at all, I do think the response to Christian (if thats what Norway is) and Muslim (if you can call Al Qaeda Muslim) attrocities and the comparison of the responses is interesting – the context of both responses is also interesting.

            Nonetheless, have been reading some of the manifesto that the alleged Norwegian terrorist had published and it is interesting to note that at one point he states “I am not a religious man” and he condemns the Archbishop of Canterbury as evil. There clearly is some Christian heritage in some of his discussion (which is quite intellectual at times), but to call it Christian is a debatable point. Given that he is reported as claiming to be Christian, yet doesnt see himself as Christian – my gut feeling is that his motivation is more right wing extremist (particular given some of his “cultural marxist” descriptions)

          6. Did anyone notice this was sold as a terrorist attack when it was thought to be done by Al-Qaeda but as soon as it turned out to be a christian he became a suspect or a psychopath. Not a major thing but I wonder why terrorist is reserved these days for the muslim population.

          7. Jock S. Trap 25 Jul 2011, 12:59pm

            I did notice that Hamish – the differences are hypocritical.

          8. Since terrorism is the use of violence in pursuit of political aims – the attrocities in Norway seem to fulfil this definition. Not sure we can call him psychotic etc as that is a clinical diagnosis made not merely on acts but psychological situations. He may just be bad and not necessarily mad.

          9. Admittedly Stu I don’t know the state of his mental health and I’m not even calling him psychotic however the media and politicians are rarely interested in the technical meanings of the words the say but the feeling behind them and they change the word they use to fit the story, so before it was nasty islamic terrorist and now it is one deluded psychopath within the matter of minutes the racism displayed is ridiculous and they get away with it all.

    4. Clearly jumping to conclusions Carl2

      Yes others did – including some politicians … but speculations (whether about Al Qaeda or race in homophobic attacks) damages us as individuals and our communities.

      1. Alf N Spit 25 Jul 2011, 1:23pm

        He’s not jumping to conclusions, it’s deliberate stirring by a troll for his own purposes.

  11. Considering these two idiots have, most likely, been indoctinated by virilently anti-gay religious ‘teachings’ since infancy, it’s little surprise that, when confronted by a homo, their first instinct is to be hateful & violent. Attacks of this nature will increase & non-whites will commit the overwhelming number of homophobic offences. In their minds, assaulting gay people is a morally virtuous act & to be applauded. Fundamentalist religiosity is the cause, violence is the effect.

    1. Alf N Spit 25 Jul 2011, 1:25pm

      You can tell all that from a photo? Wow.

  12. all people coming in to England to live must be asked a few questions do you believe in free thinking, and love any one you want too be it Woman with a Woman, Man with Man,
    And us Transsexuals
    and if they do not like our ways dont come

    1. Spanner1960 23 Jul 2011, 9:11am

      If only that were possible, and they were to answer honestly.
      A lot of people coming to UK cannot even speak English, let alone understand our political principles and rights. Many will lie and cheat their way in, in any way possible, and once here will use our human rights policies as a weapon and beat us over the head with it. At which point they will tell us how we should run our country, what they think is wrong with it, and attempt to instil their own warped values upon us.

      1. Bit of a tangent there, Spanner

        1. Ooer missus 23 Jul 2011, 2:56pm

          Not so much a spanner, more a nut.

  13. johnny2hats 23 Jul 2011, 4:54am

    re: all the various racists above – I would say that homophobia in the black community *is* a real problem, but the people most affected by it are LGBT black people. To simply say “all black people are homophobic” then sit back with a smug look on your face is immensely unhelpful. Homophobia is a learned prejudice, it doesn’t come with the skin colour. We need to work to tackle this homophobia and its causes, not try to pit gay people and black people as irreconcilable natural enemies.

    1. I’m not saying all black people are homophobic even in jamaica 25% dont have a problem with homesexuals. Problem is a lot are and they aree compelled to express it as it they don’t they are implicitly condoning it. So you will get a reaction if there is more than one and especially if they sexuality is being questioned from both sexes

      1. Spanner1960 23 Jul 2011, 12:55pm

        For once I actually agree with you. If the governments of these countries demonstrated human rights and protection of gay people, the people might actually start to change. The only way to turn governments is by hitting them in the wallet and withdrawing aid and imposing sanctions.

        1. What the hell are you on about? The problem is religion not money

          1. Spanner1960 25 Jul 2011, 4:24pm

            Yes. But like in UK, the churches can be pulled into line by the governments instilling human rights legislation.

  14. Jock S. Trap 23 Jul 2011, 8:04am

    Disgusting. I hope they find and punish appropiately.

    This behaviour is unacceptable and the Met should do all it can to remind people that being Gay, Lesbian etc is not illegal and that homophobia is.

  15. oh shut up staircase, everyone knows you’ve had more black men in you than a Nandos. Just cause you have jungle fever it doesn’t our points based on the evidence of previous stories on Pink news are lies.

    1. Its pretty good proof that your argument is weak if you have to resort to crude posts like this

    2. @Steve

      Firstly, for the record (not that it should be relevant!) I have “had” very few black men and even fewer Nandos.

      Jungle fever is a pretentious, unnecessary and offensive remark.

      Finally, even though PN is right to report these stories – PN are (and nor would they claim to be) representative in terms of coverage of all homophobia. Basing speculation on PN (or other media) reporting is ridiculous.

      There are no figures to collate to demonstrate more propensity of homophobic crimes from one section of the community compared to another. There should be some figures so that those who have genuine motives can either calm and be shown the figures are not what they suspect (which is very often the case where fear of crime is concerned) or if the reality is as you and others presume, that it can be based in fact rather than perception. Due to it being perception it is speculative racism.

      1. I was addressing staircase2 not you stu.

        1. It still doesnt mean that the premise of your argument is right whoever it was directed at ….

    3. Jock S. Trap 23 Jul 2011, 12:26pm

      How many names do you need Enoch to make your racist points?

      1. Seems there are a couple of people on here just exploiting the situation to try and whip up racism for their own political ends.

        1. Thats my opinion … found a race angle they canplay – and boy are they going to play it, becuase standing against homophobia means that whatever they say is right and decent – whatever!

          1. Problem is they are political fundies, just as bad as religious fundies, seeking security in a simplistic black and white world and a scapegoat they can target.

    4. Listen, the guy may resemble South Park’s Kyle’s mother but you’re really not a pleasant guy are you?

    5. How is it relevant how many black men I may or may not have slept with (or what I did or didnt do with them sexually?) – I mean aside from underlining your own racism that is?

  16. Of course. They would have to be black. I just knew they would.

    1. Why because the report said they were black?


    2. An inbuilt sense like the majority of us that the thugs would be black. Its London, its a hate crime against the gay community so of course they were black.

      1. You’re quite the little fascist aren’t you? Like the blond Aryan who just blew up Oslo. Suits your purpose didn’t it Enoch/Steve and whatever other noms de plumes you’re using.

        1. Spanner1960 25 Jul 2011, 4:26pm

          And this is your only alias? I count at least four on this page alone.

      2. An inbuilt sense of racism then – because otherwise its speculation which is divisive and dangerous and neither solves the problem of homophobia nor does it resolve racism and it makes our society and communities worse

        Shame on you!!!

      3. Steve: I find your comments really unhelpful and inflammatory. As a black, gay guy who has suffered two homophobic attacks this year as stated previously, I can tell you that from the information I was given when I reported the attacks, that LGBT black people are MORE likely to suffer homophobic attacks. Casual racist jokes are not the way, regardless of whether you’re angry!

      4. And when you say ‘us’ who do you mean exactly?
        (I’m gathering that you don’t actually know any black people do you? lol)

    3. Joe, did you ‘know’ the same when the Admiral Duncan bomb went off too?

      1. Alf N Spit 25 Jul 2011, 1:26pm

        Good point.

  17. Rich (original) 24 Jul 2011, 1:03am

    Good news. At least one homosexual degenerate was punished.

    1. you are the degenerate actually

    2. And you’re a cock Rich.. a prize fuc*ing idiot. Now do be a good boy and fu*k off!

  18. Rich (original) 24 Jul 2011, 3:17am

    Enemies never disappear in the world and attacks always will takes its course!… Live in danger! That’s what was said long time ago by Great Philosopher, Friedrich Nietzsche! It is good to have wars, to test the Will to Power, to fight all sorts of enemies. Young people should not be cows and rabbits…. When Norwegian man come to shoot them, they all were rabbits and cows….. I feel no sorry for them because they become degenerated already, even they were young….. Northern countries became political degenerates – spoiled by idiotic liberalism and piggish democracies…. The world needs Big Bang now!

    1. youbetter ban

  19. london mp and police force had better get a handle on the negras down there, this has been a lot of incidents, with them as nothing more than gangster , racist, you need to have a gang patrol for all colors who are invioved in terrorism, period , half of them where raised wrong and had bad fathers, and other brought up in gangs as thugs, and pimps the others bad religions teaching hate , but you have to have gang patrol and you have to encourage all women and minorites to carry masse spray or other protections, raciests bother more than one type of person , they are maliscous thugs, gangsters get actions take immediatly, and post signs andrun tv ads on tv to let them no you are going to get them, and if being thrown in jail to stay worth harrassing others, tell the rest of their gang members

  20. The bulk of this thread has degenerated into a discussion of the race of the alleged perpetrators and of similar assaults. That is not really the basic issue – the real question is why do people feel inspired to launch into violent assaults against people they don’t know for reasons apparently only connnected to the perceived sexual orientation of the targets.

    1. I disagree. It clearly is an issue otherwise it wouldn’t have taken so much space on this thread.

      I think there needs to be some study into race and sexuality to go someway in allaying any myths or cementing any facts.

      I believe that homophobia is cultural. If one is brought up hearing anti-gay language all the time then they will become anti-gay themselves – even gay men and women can become internally homophobic.

      1. I think a study would be interesting and enlightening and help to identify where we need to direct our actions in trying to prevent hate crime

  21. do we know that it was actually an homophobic attack or just an ordinary mugging or something. Just because a gay man is attacked it is not necessarily homophobic, just as if a black guy is attacked by a white guy, or vice versa, it is not necessarily a racist attack.
    Was the guy drunk and alone, therefore an easy target for mugging?

    1. Alf N Spit 25 Jul 2011, 1:29pm

      The police have indicated it probably was.

  22. Its disturbing the amount of racist crap this site has to endure.

  23. Well i suffered extreme stigma and prejudice in Ireland , from the white Irish. I’m glad this has now been downgraded to severe in the new “progressive Ireland”. It is about education and development, people like me are just killed in the third world. Or my heterosexual counterparts locked in cages and the like. I am open to all sides of an argument , but if you condemn a whole race you condemn many innocent people. I would to like to see statistical crime figures about the subject. Anyways I just see the views of the gay community as an amusing sideshow, judging by the self proclaimed Liberals and their “enlightened” views. Did you have a good civil partnership day Will , or were the genital warts a little itchy that day. Never come across such a pathetic bunch of losers as the “educated” muppets on here. Get a life , get a real cause. lmfao. Instead of a basic acknowledgment of a real issue , you now have an enemy.

    1. I’m trying to understand this comment are you for the racism or against it and if so why are you picking on the ones who your agreeing with

  24. our community is littered with spinless liberals who are too scared to stand up to these gay hating Neanderthals -here’s how proud they are when it comes to them being expelled from the UK – ‘A Ugandan man serving a four-year sentence for raping a woman is reportedly seeking asylum by claiming he is gay.’ – reported on Pinknews – here’s another – ‘A minister in Ghana has reportedly ordered the arrest of all gays and lesbians in the country’s Western Region.’ – yeah it’s not a black thing – oh wait Yes it is – Why are all the black Jamacians I know Gay – oh yeah because being a Homo in Jamacia is illegal and punishable by public beatings or house burnings – then there’s the ‘faith’ful and backward populations of Muslims who H8 Gays – and how many of them are white? – err well the handful of white ignorants who are so clearly easily suckered. – but what about all those whites who h8 us too – Yep but they all conform to the same ethos – ‘Gays are bad and we are good – yeah right!

    1. So its not there race its there ethos brought over by the white man and still funded and spouted by evangelical christians from america in Africa however not all black people living in England will share that African ethos as most won’t even know Africa or ever even been.

    2. Staircase2 28 Jul 2011, 6:07pm

      You are SOOO full of mindless sh!t its untrue.

      You can’t be such an idiot to believe that just because you can count a number of stories on Pink News where the perpetrator has been black that this is compelling evidence that ‘its always black people’….
      thats just STUPID.

      Aside from anything else you’re missing the vital point that Pink News PICKS the stories it CHOOSES to publish.

      No newspaper can ever be totally representative of ‘the truth’: they are ALWAYS edited, stories are always CHOSEN.

      I find the idea that you even use the word ‘liberals’ in conjunction with the word ‘spineless’.

      Do you know what ‘liberal’ means? (You clearly however understand the word ‘spineless’ because your comment reeks of it from beginning to end….)

      You’re a bloody idiot!

  25. Stewart William 25 Jul 2011, 9:51pm

    Black people are statistically more likely to violently assault gay men. Fact

    Makes my empathy for institutionalised racism less than enthusiastic.

    1. Staircase2 28 Jul 2011, 6:10pm

      Where do you get these ‘facts’ from then?
      Given that the Police don’t collect them as far as I understand.

      If I’m right then you’re clearly making it up…(which is the complete opposite of the word ‘facts’ isn’t it….)

      I’m honestly getting sick of this relentless mindless bigoted bollocks.

  26. Rich (original) 25 Jul 2011, 11:47pm

    Majority of blacks are marked by biological mental deficiency. Its inferior race. Nothing significant could be expected from it. Never!

    1. Staircase2 28 Jul 2011, 6:11pm

      What a load of bollocks

      Anyway – I thought you were claiming to be Nigerian….
      (changed race again have we?)

      Oh yeah: btw: reported….

  27. The gay; lesbian nurse told the truth, i am gay also, and you dont have sexual feeling for men, ever, and your dont want them to touch you sexually at all, they are not your type in any way, they really make your feel gross , and they are gross to you when it come to sex , no this lesbian women did not want to have any relations with that man and you dont have sex with someone you want to have sex witdh and then call the police, is any body out there that crazy and insane you call them back to be with them again and again if you like them, not call the cops, are you crazy the man raped her and the lgbt human rights, had better get and see to it, this cab driver is a dangerous threat to all women, a rappest will rape any one almost, they are demons, the london cab companies, had better monitor thier cab drievers better, put surveliliance in the cabs, and all women alerted carry some type of weapons , if you are out at night, and you should always have a friend go with you home, there 1

  28. Gay women, do not desire nor want men, thats what makes them gay, mens egos, cant handle that many times, you dont want to have sex with someone and then call the cops on them when you do, you call them again to see them again, the london cab company need more survellence and check ups on the men, all women need to have access to women cab drivers at niight, and women cab drivers need to have protection or another, person present or bars across the windows except for an opening in the middle to pay , and keep her door locked in the night times, picking up single men as a cab driver is dangerous, and men picking up women at nighttime is a dangerous problem london police department had better fix the problem all together, have the single ladies need to be droped off first then the couples, and;way, the problem has to get fixed are the police and cab companies should be in trouble

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