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John Barrowman tells Torchwood fans: ‘Expect man sex and nudity’

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  1. Man got balls. And BBC better get ready for “full on” complaints. My respect to both.

    1. The man sure has balls. We saw them last series. But he’s plugging this rubbish for all its worth because he likes being that character, He hasn’t realised he sold his soul to American formula TV

      1. It’s as if they have to rely on the sex to get viewers. I’m sorry but I’d rather have a meaty story than all this sex, gore and action that they’re touting. It’s really not “shocking” and “innovative” anymore.

      2. David Myers 24 Jun 2011, 9:46pm

        Seems like you can’t please some people, no matter how much progress is made.

        1. WHAT progress?

        2. I’m sorry but I don’t count as innovative progress the use of a pedophile just for shock value.
          Just as I don’t think it is a progress using sex scenes (gay or straight it doesn’t matter) to distract people from the story’s plotholes.
          Jack having random and meaningless gay sex won’t support a thing, on the contrary will give more ammo to the homophobes, besides making Jack the walking and very negative stereotype of the gay man.

          1. thanks bri for exprssing what I was too tired to say last night when I read this.
            >
            >
            The paedo is a villain, by the way. So i tink the message is still that that sort of thing is unacceptable. A lot of people thought he was meant to be one of the good guys! Even so, I still find no merit in this production ast all.

          2. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 8:05am

            As you haven’t SEEN it, you don’t know anything at all about the plot, let alone any holes. And Jack isn’t a gay man. JB is. Think you’re a tiny bit confused here.

          3. harkness fan, YES, I HAVE seen it. My partner works for BBC Wales. We were invited guests at the BFI. I foud the episode to be utter dross, as did many of the professionals who were there.
            >
            I can’t remember where I heard it , but in some film or other somebody talked about people walking across the desert to drink sand because there was nothing else. Torchwood fans are being offered sand, instead of the ‘water’ of a real quality episode. I don’t want to judge you without knowing you, Harkness fan, but you sound as if you are one of those who is so excited about any Torchwood that you don’t consider if it is GOOD Torchwood.

          4. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 10:38am

            But you HAVE judged, Beth, and you are trying to speak for all Torchwood fans.You don’t, you speak only for yourself. We get the message,you don’t like the one episode of Miracle Day you saw. Find somehting else to watch.

          5. find something else to watch is not a good enough response to disappointed fans who wanted Torchwood to live up to previous standards. that’s all anyone here is saying. Now go down to the end of this page to see my credentials for speaking on the subject and stop jumping to conclusions.

  2. Starz, as a network, certainly has balls. Anyone who saw the Starz “Spartacus” series will see that full frontal male nudity is a total non-issue, as is the cursing and explicit sex in all permutations. The BBC should have no trouble screening Torchwood if Sky can show Spartacus. Expect a 10pm kick-off though. And iplayer to get a lot of hits =)

    1. yes, but Spartacus was nothing but gratuitous and pointless violence. Torchwood used to be better than that. now its rubbish.

      1. Jock S. Trap 24 Jun 2011, 10:14am

        True but definitely hotter men!!

    2. Jock S. Trap 24 Jun 2011, 10:13am

      Oh yes!! ;)

  3. Sorry but if I want “man sex” I’ll dig out my QAF DVDs. I always watched Torchwood for it’s uniqueness, that it was set in Wales, that it had interesting characters, but most of them have been killed off only to make way for new “US characters” (and they’ll probably get killed off for nothing but RTDs idea of drama soon). The last season portrayed Jack so out of character that I rather keep him in my memory the way he was in Doctor Who. And Gwen, in never liked really like her, no way I’ll tune in for her alone. Plus if the spoilers about Bill Pullmann’s character are true, then all I can say about it is that the show has become something that only deserves the word sick. I would have loved to see more about Torchwood, but this show is simply not Torchwood anymore, it’s a totally new show. Good luck with it, I’ll miss Torchwood but I rather find something else to watch.

    1. ok what was wrong with my reply that it wouldn’t post? i didn’t say any bad words.

      1. I’ve seen the first episode. It’s not Torchwood. It’s an american guns blazing shoot everything formula thing. Yes, i’d love jack, with or without clothes, but not in this trash. John, sweetie, take a look at this rubbish you wasted your career on.

        1. You have? And is it that bad? See, I don’t listen to “real critics” usually but I recall where Ausiello and someone on AfterElton were less than impressed too. Maybe they should have previewed #3, with the sex scenes. After all, that’s why we watch TW, right?

        2. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 8:03am

          I’ve seen the first episode too, and I thought it was absolutely Torchwood. Ten episodes, filmed in the US and UK. It’s going to be massive. Very clever career move. Shame you didn’t like it. You’ll just have to change channels, won’t you?

          1. lots of things are massive. they aren’t necessarily good. Those of us with a critical faculty have a right to demand good stuff.
            >
            Curious to know what you think ‘absolutely Torchwood’ is since you don’t feel anyone else’s opinion counts.

          2. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 10:39am

            No, it’s because I like to think for myself rather than be told what to think by people like you :o)

          3. Oh yes, we all forgot. Bigger ALWAYS means better. Except when it doesn’t.

            If Beth didn’t like the “bigger, better” Torchwood, then get over it Harkness Fan.

            And as a former JB/Harkness fan, just going by the previews, character intros and interviews, I know I wouldn’t like this show.

          4. Design For Life 27 Jun 2011, 6:31am

            There has been some good sense talked on these threads but Harknessfan just wouldn’t listen. She/he accused Beth further up of speaking for all fans. She wasn’t. She was simply warning them that they are being sold a pup. I thinkj a lot of besotted JB fans are going to be happy with this. but that doesn’t make it good TV. And I question his judgement if he seriously thinks the promise of sex scenes will satisfy everyone else, gay or straight. But, as I think Beth also commented, the interviews he has given realy look as if he’;s responding according to a prepared script, telling them what he’s been told to tell them. He doesn’t seem to be free to speak his mind.

    2. Everything you said.

      And I didn’t watch TW just to see naked bodies and two man shag, but because it was a good scifi show.

      1. EXACTLY Bri!

        1. Why are we worried? its not even in the BBC schedule even though America gets it in 2 weeks time.

      2. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 8:01am

        It’s still a good sci-fi show. Watch before passing judgement. Or are you scared to watch it in case you actually like it and think it’s good ;oP

        1. i watched it. it’s NOT a good sci-fi show.

          1. How many times do you thin, Beth, you’re going to have to state that you HAVE seen the first episode before he gets it? Doesn’t seem like he (or she) is even reading the posts.

    3. I used to love Jack Harkness. Now I see him as a coward in so many ways. At least if the old team was still there I would have hope but all I see is a once fun, unique, more mature sci-fi becoming like every American sci-fi. And sorry, but I like American sci-fi but I have enough of it!

  4. ‘omnisexual’? Whats wrong with being bisexual? Or is that too cliche now?

    1. He has sex with aliens as well as men and women, that’s why he’s omnisexual. Remember his flirting with that blue bug thing? This is sci-fi, after all- not real life…

    2. Perhaps it’s a reference tot he fact that he sleeps with aliens too?

      1. you never see him have sex with an alien, though.
        >
        >
        It doesn’t matter. all that good stuff is gone, torchwood is ruined.

        1. Staircase2 24 Jun 2011, 7:49pm

          But he IS an alien remember?

          1. He’s a human from the 51st century, actually.

  5. Noooo, Jack can’t sleep with another man, what about Ianto, it’ll never be the same without him!!! Jack and Ianto were my favourite couple ever!!!!! Why did they have to kill him off :’(

    1. I know a great website with loads of stories where nobody died in Torchwood. you should go there.

      1. What was the website?

        1. doesn’t matter. i think the way this thread is going i really dont want to discuss the issue any more. forget i mentioned it.

    2. Ianto and Jack made sense, and would have become one of the great sci-fi couples if Ianto hadn’t been killed off by alien farts to make way for this ridiculous show.

  6. I’m prepared to forgive any show a lot if Barrowman gets bollock-naked in it.

    1. agreed ! :-D

      1. you won’t when you see this b*llocks.

    2. That’s why Barrowman is getting naked…To make us forgive the show…But I will not forgive. I have some principle and the show crossed a line with the tropy way Ianto was killed.

      1. Seeing as I’m more concerned with plot and such, this type of ‘apology’ isn’t going to work on me.

        1. me neither. I’m coming to the conclusion that JB is being contractually required to play up aspects of his production. He is much smarter than this usually. He knew when he made Shark Attack 3 that it was a pile of nonsense. Surely he noticed this time round.

  7. martyn notman 23 Jun 2011, 7:44pm

    Im looking forward to new novels more, the torchwood books have always been MUCH better than the series..plus you dont have to put up with desperate ratings seeking from RTD. Its not going to be the same without Burn, Naiko and Gareth- rather too many Yanks for my liking..

  8. It’s a great show, and JB has done his bit (shown his bits) to counter homophobia. Can’t wait for it to return as Dr Who has been rather de-gayed/ plastified (?) of late…

    1. martyn notman 23 Jun 2011, 8:25pm

      yes, stephen moffett done his utmost to straighten it out- dont like the man or really anything hes done (sherlock awful as well).

      1. Staircase2 24 Jun 2011, 7:51pm

        This last series has had some of the best moments ever – the pirates one was crap though…

    2. it isn’t returning. this isn’t Torchwood. it’s a load of rubbish pretending to be torchwood. I’ve SEEN it!!!

      1. Amen!!! It’s just the Gwen and Jack show now… And believe it or not, not everyone likes that.

        1. if it was the gwen and jack swhow that wouldent be so bad. It’s the whole pile of new american characters they are swamped with. it puts me in mind of the CSI spin offs when you’d have a vharacter or tgwo from the established\series go to the new location and interact with all the new characters so we get to know them. I strongly suspect that is the plan. guest roles this\ series for jack and gwen but phase them out in favour of these American based characters. In which case watch a show without Jack go down the plughole.

  9. I gather you don’t like it, Beth

    I will make my own opinion when it is broadcast

    I do think the BBC is brave to put gay sex in a mainstream (ish) programme

    1. sure, but is that all that matters? 30 seconds of flesh? Gay people need good tv too. otherwise we might as well just watch porn and be done with it?

    2. Galadriel1010 24 Jun 2011, 4:32pm

      If it ever broadcasts.

    3. I wholeheartedly agree that we need quality TV (not to say that good or quality TV can not include sex). I do think we need to have realistic TV – and that includes the fact that gay men do have sex.

      1. Why, straight men don’t? Watching a character shagging around, no matter if straight or gay or bi or omnisexual, is still nothing more than watching a character shagging around. If that is the only thing that they’re basing the show on, I’m afraid it’s a bit poor and insulting to the viewers’ intelligence.
        As others have said, Jack and Ianto was a relationship, and they also had sex you know, but it was a meaningful relationship. Now it’s only Jack slutting around for the sake of being what exactly, is beyond me. To repeat the notion that gay men have sex… wow, I could have never guessed such a thing!
        They are reinforcing the stereotype of the gay man only thinking about sex, not wanting any commitment and happy about it. Not that this is wrong in itself, but first they are making the bigots+homophobes happy, as this prove their negative vision about gays, and second a Jack who gleefully shags around after he has killed his grandson and caused his boyfriend Ianto’s death, is grating.

        1. Michael, I could kiss you right now for this statement! (But as I don’t know you, I won’t, lol)

          Is it just me or are they trying too hard to get us excited about the “Naked Jack” scenes? Trying to (over)compensate maybe for lackluster writing and character potrayals by throwing sex, action and gore in our faces?

          I recall when “Dukes of Hazzard” came out a few years back. One of the stars said something about the car chases, explosions and plot being just an excuse to see Jessica Simpson in her bikini. So let me guess, the aliens, the sci-fi, the “drama” is all an excuse to get to the “sex scenes”…

  10. I can no wait ! I have such a crush on Barrowman and he is a great actor and Jack Harkness is one of the best super anti heroes there is.

    Children of Earth was amazing. This will be great as it has the proper team.

    1. You mean Perfect Super Alien Hunter Mommy Gwen, Captain ‘I’ll Sleep With Anything’ Harkness, and their cliched Hollywood and Barbie team? Sorry but Owen, ianto and Tosh were unique and fun. That was and always will be the proper team.

      1. “Sorry but Owen, ianto and Tosh were unique and fun. That was and always will be the proper team.”

        Agreed. I don’t want some bastardised US version of Torchwood. The PROPER Welsh Torchwood was brilliant and unique. I can’t see this sell-out (because that’s how I see it) as being anything like as good at all. I don’t care about the press releases assuring us it’ll still keep its Welsh links. I don’t see how it can when most of it seems to be set in LA. Presumably, the US Torchwood lovers liked the same things we did too – it’s uniqueness – so I can’t see why this is a good move. Except for one person maybe – and I don’t mean John Barrowman…

        1. my feelings exactyl.

  11. Alf N. Spit 24 Jun 2011, 12:52am

    Why wait to see it when we can slag it off now! What’s the point of that??!

    1. Because we already know enough abut this series to be disturbed by it and register our dissatisfaction.

  12. Yes, all I care about is seeing Barrowman naked and having sex with men. I don’t watch sci-fi for the sci-fi elements. That’s just stupid! Everyone knows that sci-fi is only about naked men having sex with other naked men. It’s the only reason to watch. In fact, let’s forget the sci-fi aspect and just have the Naked Captain Hour. Oh wait, isn’t that what porn is for…?

  13. billy wingarten 24 Jun 2011, 4:33am

    We should have that show in the USA. It would be so funny to see all the homophobic relgiious people freak out.

    and also see their pants get all gummed up.

    Obviously, over here at least, we have an endless stream of social extreme conservatives having their member give them away, or their male prostitute outing them. .,

    1. Alf N. Spit 24 Jun 2011, 10:31am

      It’s being shown in the USA before the UK but I bet It’s more heavily censored there than here.

      1. Galadriel1010 24 Jun 2011, 4:55pm

        I don’t think so. It’s having bits cut out of the UK version for the censors (it’s on the BBC after all) and different bits left out for the ad breaks in the US. I think the US will see a lot more of the risqué stuff than the UK will

        1. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 7:59am

          Starz doesn’t have “ad breaks”.

          1. its american commercial tv. why wouldnt it have ad breaks?

          2. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 10:08am

            Athough “Beth” doesn’t want a response, I would like her to check her facts. Starz does not have ad breaks.

          3. I’m not American. How would I know what it does. Why would I care? But how else does it pay for itself if not by advertising? Not that it matters. If has no bearing on the quality of programming.
            >
            And your personal comment about me was uncalled for. I never said anything about not wanting an answer.

          4. Galadriel1010 26 Jun 2011, 6:49pm

            Huh. Thanks for correcting me. It must just be that they have the scenes we don’t get, then.

  14. johnny33308 24 Jun 2011, 4:54am

    Hurray!

  15. Jock S. Trap 24 Jun 2011, 10:10am

    Whoopie!!

    1. Alf N. Spit 24 Jun 2011, 10:32am

      Wa-Hay!

  16. Well, if this was a good, suspenseful drama in its own right then I guess they would be able to sell it on that schtick. But to have to titillate or shock on the promise of hot man sex is pretty downright desperate and sleazy, and suggests this transatlantic co-production is destined to be a total flop in need of a good dose of Viagra.

    Indeed, the BBC has yet to schedule this mini-series, although it has transmission slots in the US and Canada. If the BBC itself was pleased with it then surely they would be transmitting simultaneously, as happened with the last series of Dr Who? About the only thing in its favour is that it kept Barrowman of our screens for the duration of its US filming. I guess now his grinning, self-promoting mug will be popping up all over the place from Loose Women to the latest dance reality series. Oh well, it was too good to last…

    1. Alf N. Spit 24 Jun 2011, 10:35am

      Yes it’s so important to slag off dramas with gay content before we’ve seen them. May as well slag off their stars too!! :)

  17. Andy Armitage 24 Jun 2011, 2:06pm

    I agree with Jay beu. Meaty story better than sex. If sex is an essential part of the story, then fine. I have no problem with it. But it’s the gratuitousness of anything, not just sex, that turns me off and makes me think it’s being used to compensate for a weak storyline, weak characters or weak production values – or all three of those

    1. I am a bisexual man who loves man-sex but if I’m going to watch it on TV, it had either be straight up porn or, as you said, be “an essential part of the story.” How is Jack having sex essential? Is that how they save humanity? Jack goes off on a big sausage fest? And there’s supposed to a a m/f sex scene too. So do we get to see Gwen and Jack… oops, I mean RHYS, do it too?

      Give me a good strong plot, with good strong characters and character development. I can find tacky cliched sex stuff on my own. I don’t need it in my sci-fi.

      1. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 7:57am

        So don’t watch it.

        1. why should any of us watch badly made americanised rubbish instead of quality tv just because they call it Torchwood?

          1. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 10:09am

            Oh the pre-judgement…..

          2. will you get it through you’re head. I’m not pre-judging anything. I’ve seen the thing. It’s rubbish. And I ADORE Jack Harkness and John Barrowman in equal measure. But that doesn’t stop me seeing this for what it is.
            >
            For heaven sake stop jumping on me and anyone else who criticises this programme. Jack/John isn’t an untouchable god. The producers of Torchwood CAN make mistakes. Don’t be so much of a fan you can’t see the wood for the trees.

          3. Beth, Harkness fan here isn’t worth your time. He (or she) is one of those people who likes to be heard.

            And believe me, I won’t be watching. I don’t like RTD’s Gwen-show, which is what this is becoming.

  18. Emma Samways 24 Jun 2011, 2:51pm

    John Barrowman as captain jack is so sexy so it’s fine by me.I hope Torchwood will have good storylines thoug hlike the last two series.It’s so much better then Doctor who which has definetely lost it’s way

  19. Emma Samways 24 Jun 2011, 2:59pm

    Definetely think it should be made in cardiff-shame the other characters were killed off-it was a great team.
    It shouldn’t be Americanised

  20. Having never watched an episode of Torchwood,or the new Dr Who I can’t enter into the discussion as such,but as Barrowman is known,(allegedly),for flopping his bits out at every available opportunity I can’t imagine it’ll be too much of a struggle for him! Next to Jeremy Kyle,Barrowman is one of the smuggest twots on tv.

  21. Rashid Karapiet 24 Jun 2011, 5:15pm

    Jay Beu is right: we know second-hand sex is what turns most tv audiences on but Torchwood and Barrowman deserve better.

  22. The BBC showed a graphic mame/male sceneon BBC2 in Christopher Isherwood and his kind -only it was an intergral part of the story not an add on.Besides who needs naaked JB when we have cute pink ear muffs.

    1. actually there really was no more need for graphic sex in that drama as there is in Torchwood. It just served to emphasise that the character was gay,. And it wasn’t THAT graphic. two men with bottom half under the sheet made a lot of noise and energetic movement thats all.

      1. A glimpse of a guy’s ass or torso does not equate to graphic male sex for me. Triga does that just as well and the ropey acting is on a par with what we see on Torchwood.

        1. what is triga?

          1. Triga is a ‘porn-film company’ ‘specialising’ in so-called str8-acting ‘geezers’,like white-van man,having sex with other so-called str8-acting geezers! Not that I’ve ever watched any of it!

          2. Well, i’ve obviously led a sheltered life. Don’t know about anyone else!!! LOL. Seriously, though, anyone watching Torchwood for the sex might as well go to this triga thing instead. it’s not worth the effort.

  23. FloridaHank 24 Jun 2011, 8:30pm

    I think a psychiatrist would have a
    great time with this guy — really has
    a strange ego problem.

    1. So Hank !
      .
      What would be your “Fundamentalist Christian” assessment of his Ego problem?

      1. Actually John is quite a shy sort, prone to panic attacks before live performances who possibly over-compensates by being larger than life in his performances. The accusations of smugness etc elsewhere in this thread are based purely on the superficial view of his TV persona. In real life he is a charming, generous, friendly guy who made a bit of a bad judgement call over this latest Torchwood series.
        >
        >
        But if Hank is a fundy sort he won’t care about any of that, I suppose. All he’ll care is that he’s a ‘deviant’ – a deviant who’s 18 year monogamous relationship with his partner is solider than most hetero marriages and a poster case for legalising same sex marriage. But fundies see the word ‘gay’ and jump to conclusions, too.

        1. Yeah,I think the ‘accusations of smuggness’ remark were possibly based on my comment.I personally find him smug but as I’m referring only to what I’ve seen of him on tv I’ll bow to your greater knowledge of him,seeing as how you seem to know him so well! “Solider”?!

          1. .
            is there a problem with the word ‘solider’ ok, try more solid. I simply mean I don’t know many hetero couples who’ve made it to 18 years. Most of them got divorced before then! John and his partner Scott are a lovely couple.
            >
            But Miracle Day is a load of rubbish.

          2. Design For Life 26 Jun 2011, 11:21am

            I’ve heard the thing about the panic attacks mentioned in an article about your man Barrowman. That does seem at odds with his brash, colourful on stage/screen persona. I could well believe he’s different in private, in a good way. He seems thoroughly likeable from what I know of him, passionate about certain charities, eagfer to help those less fortunate than himself, and an real family man with the extended bunch of relatives he has.
            >
            and doesn’t need a psychiatrist, especially not a fundy one.

        2. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 7:56am

          John – shy?? You don’t know the guy at all.

          1. yes, i do actually. but i don’t think this is the time or place to discuss how or why.

          2. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 10:10am

            In your dreams, love.

          3. No, in reality.

          4. Remember Beth, only “true fans”, like Harkness fan here have the privilege of knowing John Barrowman, For anyone else, to even think such a thing is sacrilege. *sarcasm is as sarcasm does*

            Please, don’t bother justifying yourself to this… individual. He (or she) is just trying to rile you up because he (or she) is determined to have their say.

        3. Good grief, what has HarknessFan been on? I have never seen such a blinkered obsession. How many more are there like that out there who will watch any old rubbish if their favourite actor is in it? Are there enough to puish this programem to the top of the ratrings despite its poor produiction values and curious obsession with minor side detasils like the man-sex!

          1. Harknessfan is definitely one of those people who a) thinks their opinion is the only TRUE opinion allowed b) Such a devoted “fan” of John Barrowman that it’s downright scary, I mean, the man does NOT walk on water, he IS ALLOWED to make mistakes c) a mean-spirited individual who seems to love attacking anyone of a differing view.

  24. I am an fan of Dr. Who more years back than I care to reveal, and a fan of all the spin-offs, especially Torchwood. As a gay man who has had straight sex shoved down my throat for decades in practically every show I am absolutely thrilled to see at least a little equality.
    @ the ill-informed dolt who called it pedophilia for a 24 year old to have sex with a 44 year old I suggest you consult the statutes, what a ridiculous statement. As are the “ego” statements, the man is merely having fun with the role. And frankly when anyone has accomplished as much as he has they might even be entitled to a little ego. Especially doing it OUT OF THE CLOSET! This man is a hero more than anything else for that alone.
    Most of the comments on here sound like the same small minded self-righteous fool who wanted drag queens thrown out of Pride. Get a life and grow up as some of us would love to see some variety for a change and hope it is not ruined by a bunch of silly whiners.

    1. Matthew, you misunderstand the nature of the complaints. Gay sex in context is fine. But gay sex to spice up a bad production or siimply to ‘prove’ that the Americanised version won’t back down from the gay characters the uk version had isn’t. Variety, yes. but quality variety. not any old dross.

      1. @Matthew
        You shlould read carefully the posts before commenting on them, maybe you are the ill-informed dolt.
        1- Don’t mix real persons (John Barrowman and Dillon Casey) with the characters the play ( Capt Jack and the 24 years old guy). I would never insult JB that way, I’am actually one of his fans, but I don’t have to like whatever he says/does.
        2- Oswald Danes is one of the main character in MD, he is a paedophile and a child murderer and he will be under the spotlight for all the episodes. I don’t care what he will do, he is a pedo and for me this is unacceptable. You can’t put a “likable pedo” in a scifi show. You can’t use a serious, delicate and painful topic like paedophlia just for shock value in a scifi show. A pedo is never “likable”. This is not innovative, this is disgusting.
        3- Sex (gay or straight it doesn’t matter) in a show is Ok if it in context, if it is just there to attract viewers and hide a poor story it isn’t. I want good vatiety & good shows.

        1. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 7:55am

          The paedophilia aspect is NOT used for shock value. It is integral to the storyline. I’ve seen the first episode already, so take it from me how far from the truth some people are.

          1. I’ve seen it too, and admiring JB and Captain Jack isn’t reason enough to like this production. Torchwood fans are capable of judging bad TV. Barrowman fans aren’t so blinded by his charm they can’t see when he’s done something less than fantastic.

          2. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 10:11am

            hey Beth, see that button? it helps you to change channels on your TV. Try it ;oP

          3. I’ve seen the first episode too and no the paedophilia is not integral to the storyline. If they wanted to use a sentenced to death man for the plot, they could have used a different type of criminal. BTW the first episode was bad
            Paedophilia is too serious and painful tragedy to be used to make a show “edgy” & shock the audience, it doesn’t matter what the character will do. Again this is science fiction, if you use this kind of character in scifi or fantasy you end up diminishing the danger and evil that paedophiles cause in real life.
            I’m a fan of Captain Jack & because of that I’m here complaining. RTD annihilated Jack in CoE and now he is using him as cosmic joke, a comic relief and a cheap slut.
            I didn’t watch TW to see naked bodies and men shag, if the sex is meaningful to the story it is ok; if it is just there because it is the only way to attract viewers and cover plotholes, then the show is not worth watching, there is plenty of porn movies on the net if you just want that.

        2. There was no reference in the article here regarding paedophilia other than your comments, so it appeared you were referring to sex between a 24 y/o and a 44 y/o, which would indeed be absurd. I rarely comment on things like TV, but only political or religious issues as that is where I am the most knowledgeable. Generally I have no use for TV. I have not seen the episodes yet so I cannot comment beyond the article here. But, most of these comments still seem strange as I have only rarely seen similar arguments against straight sex, regardless of the plot. Without seeing it, I have no doubt whatsoever US TV will cheapen the series. We will never have the quality of the BBC as commercial interest controls everything in the US. For all of the US’s rabid prudishness in real life, it has entertainment filled with gratuitous sex for no other reason. Is it good or bad? It sells. In this case personally, if it is a gay character instead of a the usual, then it still might be an improvement.

    2. Huh, I read through ALL the comments and the only (ONLY) reference to the pedophile was this comment posted by Bri up above:

      “I’m sorry but I don’t count as innovative progress the use of a pedophile just for shock value.”

      Um, where does it say ANYTHING about accusing a 44 yr old sleeping with a 24 yr old as pedophilia? It’s the mere fact that a pedophile is an essential character and therefore thrust into the limelight, even portrayed in such a way that, according to Barrowman, we will actually like and sympathize with the pedophile that has angered and disgusted many people. NOT the fact that 44 yr old man sleeps with 24 yr old man. The problem with THAT is that it seems like Torchwood is trying to degrade the characters an shock by going for “shock” elements to get us to watch. NOT the ages of the characters. Please try to read the posts thoroughly and make certain that you understand what people are saying because going off.

      1. Design For Life 26 Jun 2011, 6:36am

        There have been so many articles about this benighted programme that you could get dizzy. But I don’t remember one where anyone said you would LIKE the paedo character, let alone Barrowman, who definitely should have known better since he is someone with an action figure collectd by kids. May I ask the source of that particular remark, in case it is misquoted or out of context in some way?

        1. Barrowman: “The interesting thing is that he’s a pedophile but the audience, I think, is actually going to like him and what he does after that.”

          Quote is from an interview on wsj

          1. Design For Life 26 Jun 2011, 11:14am

            Ok, thanks for that. I wasn’t saying it wasn’t true, BTW, just that I’d missed the quote. That clarifies it a bit. I’m not sure he’s correct, though. A paedo we sympathise with is hard to imagine.

          1. Design For Life 26 Jun 2011, 11:17am

            At rick of incurring the wrarth of ‘Harknessfan’ I have to say he seems to think the gay sex element is the only thing any of us care about. That’s actually a bit dim of him. Gay and straight peopel alike want a good plot, too.

          2. @Design for Life….Have your say. Ignore “Harkness fan” as this person is one of those who feels only he (or she) is entitled to an opinion.

            And thanks, Pete, for posting the link! I was actually searching for it so I could post it but I have way too many bookmarks to sift through.

  25. Okay, I was pissed off when Davies killed off Ianto in CoE, but while the Barrowperson has specific charms, I want Grief and Mourning for the Man Jack Lost aplenty. And a new fulltime relationship. In which, I’m prepared to forgive RTD his dramatic neccessity move last season.

    And either Gwen or Rhys killed off at the end of this season..

    1. neither of those things is going to happen.

  26. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 7:52am

    Barrowman gets his kit off? Man sex? An openly gay man playing a bisexual hero? Sounds awesome. Something we should celebrate!

    1. normally yes, but this is a terrible production. harkness fans deserve better.,

      1. Harkness Fan 26 Jun 2011, 10:13am

        In what way is it terrible, Beth. Seen all 10 episodes, have you? Wow!

        1. Nobody has seen more than was shown at the BFI, including you. So stop trying to belittle my opinion. That episode was dire. Why would the other 9 be any better. Think about it, and stop jumping on people who are trying to talk sense.

          1. actually, I HAVE seen four of the ten episodes. I DO work for BBC Cardiff, as people on this forum know. And it really does go from bad to worse.
            >
            Seriously, Harknessfan, calm down and stop jumping on anyone who dares dispute the greatness of Captain Jack. This is a bad series. I don’t doubt that it will make the ratings. Many people want to see a new Torchwood. I’m one of them. But I know it is a disappointment. We all deserve better, including you. Ratings don’t make something good.
            >
            Now come on. You and Beth and others here like Iris, another huge JB fan, ought to be friends, not enemies. The worst thing about all this is it is splitting fans into camps all over again just when the wounds of CofE should be mending. So calm down and debate this issue sensibly or you’ll just come across as a blinkered fan who can’t see further than the gorgeous blue eyes and the matinee idol smile.

          2. not that the gorgeous blue eyes and the matinee idol smile aren’t worth staying up for!

          3. @Rose, I am SO glad that I don’t have Starz now. If 4 episodes are bad, then at most 60% of the show could be good. Sorry, but I’m a person who gets bored and turned off from a show very quick. Typically I’ll give a show 2 episodes (unless the first one is THAT bad) but if the end of the 2nd comes and I’m still bored then I never consider it again. So hearing from you, Beth and I believe it was Ausiello that mentioned the 1st 3 episodes being less than stellar, can I just say Thanks! Thanks for reassuring me that I made the right decision to not watch? And I am not being sarcastic here, I’m being honest.

  27. Seems the same names are at it again since Starz have announced they were producing Torchwood. Odd that it is over a year later and still with all the information on this show they get it wrong.

    Rose I have a question for you. Are you allowed to comment on a program that is yet to be seen by the public that you have viewed? I mean I know you haven’t given away any spoilers, but isn’t it part of your contract that you aren’t allowed to make formula comments on it much less that you viewed the program. I mean I know a few people that work for the BBC that aren’t allowed to comment to friends much less go on a public forum and say anything about a program. Seems odd that you can and others can.

    1. I mean others can’t.(note to self proof before posting!) I’m not trying to start anything, just curious on the rules.

      1. since i didn’t work on that partcular production (very few people did since tyey went off to LA for it and used American crews) i’m not under any obligation. No, I probably shouldn’t have gone quite so public. I was just trying to settle an argument here. Harknessfan seemed so insistant that anyone commenting staked their credentials to do so.
        >
        Can you clarify the first part of your comment. I have to say from a personal POV that the doubts about the quality of this episode have increased with every piece of info we had about it. And that’s true of most people I know to have any opinion.

        1. actually, probably best if I bow out of this conversation now. But I’m not altogether surprised if people who had thoughts on this subject before haven’t changed those ideas. Their initial fears have not been assuaged by anything in the dozens of interviews and reviews going on noiw.

        2. If you really work for the BBC,which I highly doubt,you are actually obligated to keep your mouth shut and don`t talk about what you have seen,wether it is good or bad.
          In fact,you could even lose your job because of this,if only because you talk very negative about a production from what you claim is your employer.

          1. Design For Life 26 Jun 2011, 3:02pm

            I doin’t think the BBC can fire somebody just for criticising something they had almost nothing to do with production wise. If they do, there would be one hell of a stink about it in the papers.
            >
            I think it interesting that somebody with those sort of connections feels just as strongly as other people about this issue. This really must be a lousy programme,

          2. That sounds like pure speculation to me, Henry. Why the unfriendly attitude?

  28. All right, but when is Torchwood having interspecies sex ? I don’t doubt Captain Jack would nail a Slitheen, an Ood or even a Cyberman if he had the opportunity.
    You know, the most ironic thing about the widespread bisexuality of the members of the Torchwood Institute is that the institute was created by Queen Victoria, who, with all the sexual repression of the Victorian age, couldn’t have been more homophobic.

    1. Spanner1960 27 Jun 2011, 3:58pm

      “Anyone can make a mistake…”
      As the Dalek said, climbing off a dustbin.

      1. That’s not quite true actually. It’s true that male homosexuality was illegal but it was tolerated and even celebrated if discreet. I know there’s no reason why Gay men should have to be discreet in the modern era but we’re talking 150 years ago and you said the victorian age couldn’t have been more homophobic and in that you are wrong. There are many example of gay Victorians, eg the painters Charles Rickets and Charles Shannon, Lord Gower was known to have an affair with his valet and London had a thriving underground scene. In fact, the only reason Oscar Wilde was prosecuted was because he made the mistake of trying to sue a newspaper for printing a story about his affair when he was married with four kids. I’d say the 1950′s were probably much more homophobic.

        Anyway, enough of the history lesson since it’s totally off topic.

  29. Ben Foster 15 Jul 2011, 7:30pm

    well, what do you know? it was as crap as those in the know told us it would be.

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