Israel’s a terrorist state. I thought everyone knew they had the most paranoid and racist airport security system in the world.
Being where Israel is I think they are entitled to be paranoid it’s just they still need to treat people with dignity.
…well they shouldn’t be there then, especially as they stole it from the Palestinian people in 1945 and justified it by saying the “Arabs had it for thousands of years and it was still desert, we have it for ten years and it is a blooming garden”
If the Arabs wanted it as a blooming garden they would have done so ; it was theirs to do with whatever they pleased, not for a bunch of land grabbing Russian and German foreigners to walk in and steal it at the point of a gun. Now let me see, where have we seen that happen before?….oh yes when the Brits stole Ireland and starved the inhabitants to death. And America where the Brits walked in and slaughtered the Native Americans, and Australia where the Brits walked in and slaughtered the Native Australians and marginalised those that survived.
Wasn’t Britain to the fore in the setup of the pariah State of Israel too?
That’s a crazy rant Paddy. But you obviously know your history, it’s all true. I’ve always thought the potato famine should be classed as genocide. But what has the history of conquest in the rest of the world got to do with a strip search in an Israeli airport?
I have to say I struggle to lucidly link the Irish potato famine to a strip search/interrogation at Tel Aviv airport
It’s Paddys… twisted way of blaming the Brits for everything and everything thats happened.
His Xenaphobia is no secret to all that know him.
Mind you he is the Biggest hypocrite going.
@eddy2 & Stu…
…sorry i went a bit off message there, but I was responding to the JST persons thing about “being where Israel is” …It shouldn’t be there!. I didn’t mentioned the potato famine in Ireland. I spoke of the deliberate starvation of the indiginous Irish people in 1843/47. Much the same as what is going on in Gaza today. Ireland produced more food than most other countries in Europe during the “potato famine” but it was all shipped out to feed the big houses in the UK.
If I must comment on the story then I only have this to say. Shame on any European or indeed any nationality Gay person who goes to the pariah state of Israel to show them support or recognition. What they are doing to the Palestinian people is a disgrace and goes a long way toward diminishing any shred of legitimacy they thought they ever had or were entitled to. Anyone who considers the above a rant is deceiving themselves and no one else. Fact is fact like it or not!!!
you date this all to 1945 and claim by omission that somehow the “Palestinian people” ruled/owned that region. That sort of ignores the history of Palestine and the progress of history. Palestine was a name used to describe a geographical terriority from about 450BC to about 1948 AD. It was not a single group or race. The name did not apply to any particular nation in that region. Which by the way was defined as the area between the Mediterranean See and the Jordan River and some adjoining land.
Prior to 450 BC there are text from Ancient Egypt that reference the area as being called Retjenu or variants of that, and those date from the 14th century BC
The Kingdom of Isreal was part of the Palestine territory starting sometime in the Iron Age (1020 BC or so).
With that in mind how are the modern day “palestinan people” the undisputed owners of this land? or is 1945 all you care about? For centuries the jews ruled part of it and then were decimated, shouldn’t that count?
…i’m not really concerned with dates per se, especially those artificially defined by theists, but 1945 /47 period is the date most quoted by the illegitimate state of Israel as the foundation date of their state..i have no dispute with you geography or dates and i agree the Judea was a small province of greater Palestine inhabited by what we now know as the Jews. I agree that they ruled Judea and were finally decimated. How then does that now give them the right to take over what is recognised worldwide as Palestine and attempt to decimate the inhabitants thereof, namely the Palestinian people? Shouldn’t they be more entitled to part of northern Germany, western Poland and southern Russia. That is the ancestoral homeland of what are now the Jewish people. and it would seem that they have legitimate claim to that territory given their recent history. What have the Palestinian Arabs done to deserve the treatment being meted out to them by the occoupier Israel.??
“Dont you think the Palestinian people have as legitimate right to “be safe from harrassment and death just like the rest of us””
They do but whilst I don’t agree with some of Israeli acts I do accept that if rockets are going to be fired daily into Israel, killing it’s people they have the right to defend themselves.
Fact is they are where they are and it stopped Jewish people being displaced after centuries of brutality.
Yes we could argue where best but that argument would be the same where ever they are.
At the end of the day this is still all about religion and people already know my views on that.
Clearly religion is a excuse to be devisive and creates so many problems.
Maybe if we could be rid we would finally be at peace but somehow I figure religion just ain’t gonna let that happen.
Jewish people have just as right to be safe from harrassment and death just like the rest of us.
Prehaps you were on Germany’s side over this issue just like all those before them who wanted Jews extinguished from the planet.
But hey so long as you can’t bring in irrelevent rants here about all else and blaming Brits why not.
Fact is they have land weither you like it or not.
So it’s thriving country now rather than a desert, get over yourself and get real.
I do find this comment particularly offensive Jock Strap. I hardly think anyone wants to gas the Jews like Hitler did! And it is only a “thriving country now rather than a desert” because of the billions of American dollars that have been poured into it.
…..”Jewish people have just as right to be safe from harrassment and death just like the rest of us”. and i agree but not in someone else’s country.
Dont you think the Palestinian people have as legitimate right to “be safe from harrassment and death just like the rest of us”. I do , particularly in their own country. Let them go back to Russia and make the steppes and plains of Siberia bloom if they want to but they have no legitimate claim to Palestine. “Getting real” seems to indicate you think the Palestinians should suffer the same fate ; i think not As*hole.
To bring the Holocaust into the argument only shows how flimsy your argument is and shows you have little grounds for debate! “Getting real” seems to indicate you think the Palestinians should suffer the same fate ; i think not As*hole.
…..”Jewish people have just as right to be safe from harrassment and death just like the rest of us”. and I agree but not in someone else’s country.
Dont you think the Palestinian people have as legitimate a right to “be safe from harrassment and death just like the rest of us”. I do , particularly in their own country. Let the Jews go back to Russia and make the steppes and plains of Siberia bloom if they want to but they have no legitimate claim to Palestine.
To bring the Holocaust into the argument only shows how flimsy your argument is and shows you have little grounds for debate. “Getting real” seems to indicate you think the Palestinians should suffer the same fate ; I think not As*hole.
But thats what I get from Paddys… comment so there ya go.
……if you’ve been visiting these pages of late you will know by now that is the modus operandi of this jock strap “person”. He sits on the computer all day long posting absolute rubbish and castigating other posters for stuff they never said. A rather twisted individual i would say, who invokes Godwins Law almost every day. He is also a rabid right wing fascist and racist who will at the drop of a hat say everyone else is racist to cover his own pathetic scribblings. Anyone who can read is well aware of this pathetic beings views and usually ignore him as one would a fart in an elevator. He writes “here here” instead of “hear hear” and can’t get his head round the difference, ffs. That is just a tiny part of his language skills.. a clear indication of what we are dealing with.
As you will have gleaned from my post above, he totally made up what he said about my comment. He is intellectually unable to do otherwise and is also a grat fan of that font of wisdom wikipedia..
Petty and petulant would describe your last post.
Whilst Jock S Trap and I do not see eye to eye on every issue (and it would probably be boring if we did), he does make clear coherent and honest commentary and a variety of topics.
Your allegations that he is racist are disgraceful – he certainly has made it clear that he does not discriminate at all on grounds of ethnicity.
Most occasions of Godwins law that I have seen on here have been initiated by others not Jock S Trap.
I am unaware of any reflection from wikipedia from Jock.
Now, I could critique you and demonstrate your fallibility but I think you make that more than obvious to an intelligent reader.
stu, dont u find funny how jews use holocaust to shut up any discussion about their occupation and continuous land grab in Palestine
The entire situation is complex and whilst we should respect what happened to the Jewish race in the holocaust, this does not justify some of their actions – although it may explain some of it. Equally there have been horrendous acts against Israel too. Its complex.
stu, please dont cheapen yourself with patronising, what’s so complex about stifling conversation?
If you find what I said there patronising, so be it … I am merely stating the facts as I see them – persuade me I am wrong, if you disagree
…you don’t think that his/her its disgraceful allegation that i supported H!tler and the Holocaust invoked Godwins law for instance.? I stand by my assertion that he/she/it is a detestable vile being and I resent the fact that you find it necessary to defend him/her/it. His/herits pronouncements on Muslims recently were racist and if you think otherwise that is your prerogative, but i’ll thank you to accord me my right to my opinion without censure from you. You are no longer a policeman at large or for Pink News!
I must have missed the comment on H!tler – but I will look again before forming a personal opinion on that.
Last time I checked this was a public forum, so just in the same way you can critique my or others actions or defend others – so I can do the same and I will thank you to afford me the right to comment as I see appropriate.
If you don’t want your comments to be critiqued then don’t say them in a public forum.
I don’t agree with everything JST says and we have significantly disagreed in past but on balance I think he is honourable and demonstrates a sense of proportion and honesty that is often a breath of fresh air.
stu, i find ur understanding of facts truly complex, in the absence of objectivity we get ‘complexity’
That may be your opinion – thats not the reality of my situation.
Genuinely I feel there is real complexity in this situation that has taken politicians globally many years great difficulty to resolve without success.
One can look at the building of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Palestinian territories or their activity with the aid ships or their blood shed in Gaza all as heinous and wrong.
Equally, one can look at the Palestinian situation and the actions of Hamas and various Arab states in the threats and attacks including indiscriminate suicide bombings in Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Tel Aviv etc – and that is very wrong too.
Politically, we can see real justification for claims to land from the Palestinians – but equally there are justifiable claims from the Israelis.
Then there is the issue of American aid – or Syrian aid, or Egyptian aid or Iranian threats … or Saudi influence …
Its not a simple situation … and to pretend otherwise is blinkered.
stu im aware of international politics in middle east but going back to my original post, complexity of the situation is not a excuse to cheapen the history of holocaust by using it to stifle the legitimate criticism of israel’s apartheid politics in region. you can go on and on about who did what and how complex it is, but the bottom line that israel claims to be the only democracy in the region,well Hitler’s Germany was equally democratic but we dont use that fact to excuse the oppression of others
Way to project your own behaviour again.
Luckily people see what they know not you made up efforts because yet again you let yourself show through and let yourself down at the same time.
Thank you Stu.
When have I spoken about the Holocaust … please do not be disingenuous about my comments. The reality of the Middle East situation is that it is incredibly complex – to suggest otherwise suggests a lack of knowledge of the situation.
@Kane – apologies for not being able to get this reply in quite the right place, but JESUS CHRIST mate, your little rant has got sweet FA to do with the story at hand here.
The searching of these two had got nothing whatsoever to do with illegal occupations, land grabs, the Palestine-Israel conflict or any other of the cr@p you are hooting on about.
So can you get your head out of your @rse and stop trying to rub up everyone up the wrong way.
Gotta say Jock low blow with the hitler rubbish and Israel is a fascist state deserving of going to court for there war crimes
But thats how I, repeat I, felt Paddys.. was suggesting.
I found his comment offensive so wrote why I thought it was offensive.
Plus everyone else is saying Hitler when in fairness you won’t find that name in any post of mine til now as a response.
Mind you as you read more and more I am tending to stick to that view to.
I have stated that I don’t agree with everything the Israelis do but I do feel that being under constant attack can’t exactly be a bundle of joy.
Also this story is about the treatment of a Gay right leader and his boyfriend not about the relationship between Israel and Gaza so the comment was not only offensive but irrelevent to the topic anyway.
I believe if you mention elephants in a room full of Europeans, the argument drifts always over to the position of elephants and the Polish question. So the potato famine is not exactly relevant to this thread.
….no-one mentioned the “potato famine” Dan. I spoke of the deliberate starvaton of 8 million indiginous Irish people in one of Europes most fertile countries which is relevant to any thread that mentions the illegitimate pariah state of Israel.
Ahh I see paddy, so you seem to be saying that these two got strip searched because 8 million people were starved then?
…No i was comparing to deliberate starving of the people of Gaza by the terrorist Israelis. I think you are being disingenious as you probably did realise that what i was talking about if you’ve been following the flow of the thread.
I for one am very glad the Indians and Aborigines made way for proper modern societies in the USA and Australia. There was no state in those countries to begin with, so there is no occupation to speak of now. Same goes for ‘Palestine’. A ragtag of indolent Arabs, taking up space – what was overthrown, exactly? In contrast, Southern Ireland is more progressive than the stolen North. You’re comparing apples with oranges, and are morally better off focussing on the Greeks, the Kurds and the Armenians, all of whom have had lands taken from them illegally by Turks and other Muslims.
….they did Not make way, they were murdered and wiped out to make way by greedy Europeans. Do you think if you your neighbour seems “indolent” that give you the right to walk in and murder him and tak over his hous and land.I think not. While there may not have been “states ” in tOZ or the US those countries still belonged to those who lived there and not the greedy disease ridden Europeans who invaded their countries.
How is land stealing by the turks and Muslims any worse than land stealing from the Palestinians, pray tell.
Read up on your History. Ireland was whole during the period of the Hunger and was partitioned by the British so they could hold on to Ulster to protect the northern sea approaches to the Irish sea, not because the cared a whit about the Presbyterians of Ulster.
Your whole comment is childish and practically unintelligible.
Okay that is a really arbitrary statement. you viewpoint assumes that only the “european” description of STATE applies.
I cannot speak about Australia but here in the U.S. the “Native Americans” had great nations across the entire continent and in South America also. Not all of them had walls and castle moats as the European nations developed, but they had sophisticated and complex societies and boundaries. Their laws were passed under their idea of governance. Their wars fought for their reasons.
It is pretty pathetic and arrogant of you to try and describe them as inconsequential.
Save your breath therealist, paddy is another bitter irishman with a chip bigger than his actual shoulder
….Who exactly is paddy sister mary?
On scanning through the thread i cant find any such tag. My tag is Paddyswurds and i don’t accept abreviations of it. Be aware that the term paddy as you wrote it is a racist slur as far as we Irish are concerned. But then you as a black person wouldn’t stoop to racism would you?
Actually, there is no shortage of food or medicines in the Gaza Strip and there never has been – Israel ensures copious supplies, often never paid for, are shipped in daily, together with other materials, by the truckload. Israel also ships in money to pay the Hamas government officials – despite Hamas’s avowed aim in its constitution to kill all Jews. The crossing points for the trucks are often attacked by Hamas terrorists and, of course, there are almost daily attacks on israel itself using mortars and rockets. By the way, the United Nations authorised the establishment of the Israeli State and its originally envisaged boundaries are not those of 1967 but much bigger; also, at the time, most Arabs welcomed the establishment of Israel – it was only later that a few Salafist Muslims reminded the rest of exactly what the Koran says about Jews and infidels! The idea that Israel, the only secular democracy in the middle east, is a terrorist state is simply too risible for words.
Can you qualify all these statements? As far as I am aware all the points you make are completely untrue!
A quick Google search reveals that the World Food Programme reports a “Serious shortage of food and medicine in Gaza.” I have never heard that Israel “pay the Hamas government officials” either. Hamas doesn’t want to kill all Jews either, they seek the return of Israel back to its original owners. The UN didn’t authorise Israel – the UK did. And no-one “envisaged boundaries” much bigger.
In short, I think you are a dangerous Zionist spreading misinformation.
4,942 truckloads containing 127,353 tons of food, fuel, and other supplies, including construction materials entered the Gaza Strip in May.
During the month, there was a 128% increase in the volume of truckloads entering the Gaza Strip through the Kerem Shalom Crossing compared to the previous month and there was also a 31.5% increase in the number of patients that exited the Gaza Strip for medical purposes.
Additionally, 929 truckloads of cement, iron, aggregates, and other building materials were transferred to Gaza to be used in a variety of humanitarian aid projects in coordination with international organizations. These projects include water treatment plants, greenhouses, agricultural plots, schools, a medical center, and housing units.
In accordance with an Israeli government decision made in June 2010, the capacity of the Kerem Shalom Crossing was nearly doubled so that 250 truckloads could enter the Gaza Strip on a daily basis.
Figures for April will be available shortly.
There have been over three hundred attacks by mortars, rockets and other missiles launched from the Gaza Strip into Israel since the beginning of 2011 ( see wickipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2011 for the 2011 details and change the year for the details of previous years – yes, this has been going on for years!).
Many Palestinian arabs live inside Israel and vote in its elections. The United Arab List is the currently the most well known political grouping (better known by its Hebrew name ‘Ra’am’) and currently has members sitting in the Israeli Parliament – the Knesset. This grouping espouses the destruction of Israel and invasion of the territory by the decendants of the arabs who left in the middle of last century but is nonetheless allowed to function because Israel is a democracy. There are other arab members of the Knesset. Do you know of any other country that would allow such a political grouping to remain active whilst it was fighting for its survival and surrounded by enemies?
Shops in Gaza are well stocked as any trader there will tell you and as can be seen on Gaza television – available in Israel and as far afield as Cyprus – any nigvht of the week and there is also no shortage of luxury items (which are mostly brought in from Egypt by being smuggled through the tunnels).
Earlier this year Hamas conducted armed raids on the Arab Banks in the Gaza Strip and stole around a million pounds in cash from them. As a consequence many arab banks have shut down their operations in Gaza – yes, there were thriving banks and many other businesses in Gaza dependent upon them, also – which has made life difficult for those people paid by cheque or direct transfer such as government officials and businessmen both large and small. At the request of the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organisation) Israel has been transferring cash into the Gaza Strip in order to pay government officials and government bills for some years now. Do you know of any other country that would facilitate the transfer of cash money in order to help its sworn enemy who seeks nothing but the destruction of israel and the genocide of all Jews?
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) was the original UN Resolution which established the State of Israel which was not established by the British who were merely the mandate holders and who were often attacked by both the Jews and the Arabs and numbers of British servicemen were killed by both of the others. The British wanted to terminate the Mandate because of such killings which was why the resolution was passed. The original Mandate was given to Britain by the old League of Nations in 1922 and was based on the principles of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League. The Mandate resolution of the old League, which was accepted by the UN, envisaged a Jewish homeland stretching from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean sea, although that was not what ended up in Resolution 181 (II). This whole situation had arisen from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WW One.
Many more details about Gaza and Israeli supplies into Gaza and the nature of society in Gaza can be found in my posts (and the posts of others, also) at http://www.newenglishreview.org under The Iconoclast blog heading. There you will find chapter and verse and full details of the newspapers, usually arab, which are used to compile such knowledge, and the television channels, both Gazan Arab and other, from which information is culled.
The Gazaan government has forbidden the UN to employ anybody but Gazaan Arabs (so-called ‘Palestinians’) in the Strip. They are mainly members of either Hamas or the PLO. Visiting UN officials are given a carefully constructed and heavily guided tour. For those reasons UN statistics about Gaza are suspect at the very least and downright propaganda fabrications at the worst. I certainly would not rely on them as proof of anything.
UN pronouncements on and about Gaza have usually been shown to be erroneous at a later date – like the UN’s Goldstone Report which has now been proved by Hamas’s and the PLO’s own pronouncements to be a tissue of lies set in a farrago of nonsense all held together by the willingness of Western dupes to perpetrate any old fabrication as long as it can be seen to harm Israel or Europe or The USA.
The original owners of Israel are the Jews – it just depends how far back into history one wants to look. The area covered by the present state of Israel has always had Jewish inhabitants – the number varied at different times in history but by AD1920 it was probably as high as forty percent. Please read the Hamas foundation charter document – in it Hamas vows to exterminate all Jews and to occupy Israel and impose Sharia Law on its non-Jewish inhabitants. Hamas also dislikes and attacks, in the Gaza Strip and in other places, Arab Christians and others not of the Islamic faith. The PLO is no better – it is simply more circumspect about what it says for Western consumption.
Totally agree with Paddy on that, and I’m English. And it’s a disgusting yet typical assumption that anyone who is against the illegal state of Israel is with Hitler. It’s an automatic Israeli or Jewish response for their war crimes in Palestine. The Israeli government and the IDF are Fascists just like Hitler and his SS. They murder innocent people and blame everyone else for it.
I can’t wait until paddyswurds gets beheaded by a palestinian mu$lim shariah cleric – just because he or she is gay! that will be sweet kharma for all the anti-Israel phony lies and venom they’ve regurgitated on this message board over and over again. Look up shariah law and homosexuality, dumba$$. shariah is the law in the so-called ‘palestinian’ territories – where they routinely execute gays, lesbians and transgendered people just for being gay
Israel paranoid??? Have you ever heard of NEZAR HINDAWI and his Irish girlfriend and their unborn baby???
This time though Stuart it has been reported to the public. I wonder how many times it has gone on in private and NOT been reported publicly.
Israel that well known respecter of HUMAN RIGHTS ????????? ask the Palestinians , FREE GAZA
Why are you defending people that would put you in prison for 10 years?
I must admit I struggle with that aspect of the argument. I err from a LGBT persepctive on the Israeli side as they have an enviable LGBT rights record (certainly in the region). However, when looking at human rights in a broader sense Israel are clearly lacking … its a difficult one to reconcile.
….it is shallow and petty to support the illegitimate pariah state of Israel just because they give a couple of thousand GLBs a few paltry rights, while at the same time they squeeze millions of the Palestinian people on to a few arid acres of their own country, deny them the most basic of human rights and attempt to starve them to death.
The whole sentiment of this thread is a disgrace to the dare I say gauche,comfortable, well fed free GLBs of Europe.
There are a few dissenting voices but we get derided as being somehow mad or deranged. I think it is plain to any thinking human being who is right on this issue, and it certainly is not those that support the terrorist state of Israel .
Thanks for calling me shallow and petty.
If you read all my comments on this thread you will see that I am very supportive of all human rights and am acknowledging the good work of Israel in LGBT rights. Their flagrant abuse of rights elsewhere does not alter the fact that on the issue of LGBT rights they have done a reasonable job. As a gay man I have a bias and interest in LGBT rights. I have voiced my views and I find it hard to understand how a regime so supportive of equality (in terms of LGBT rights) can be so destructive of equality and equity on another hand. I don’t support the Israeli regime totally because of their breach of human rights but equally I do not think the Palestinians are absolved of all criticism.
….I didn’t call anyone any such thing. I said “it is shallow and petty”. You chose to apply that to yourself. in reply to your point that the Palestinians aren’t absolved of all criticism, who has a right to criticise a people fighting for the right to be free in their own country. The day will come whether you or i see it or not when the Prime Minister of Israel will have to stand in the Knessett and do what David Cameron had to do a few months ago to the people of Ireland, apologise to the people of Palestine for the wrongs done to them by Israel
If you follow the flow of my comments and your reply then it would be reasonable to suggest that you were calling me shallow and petty and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
I suspect there will come a time that Israel will have to apologise for its acts. I also believe the Palestinian Authority will also have to apologise for its acts. Both sides in this conflict face aggression – and there are arguments which could justify actions by both sides. Even Arafat admitted there have been atrocities carried out in the name of Palestine against Israel. It is clear and incontravertable that Israel has carried out atrocities too – whether you class these as acts of war, acts of terrorism or give them some other label is a matter for conjecture. Nothing changes that Israel have protected LGBT rights and deserve credit for that. Both the Palestinian Authority and Israel deserve both credit and criticism for various actions.
….My comment “shallow and petty” referred to the general sentiment of the thread rather than individual comments, but one can see from the flow of your comments how you could could construe it to refer to you personally. I however will not apologise for the comment as it wasn’t meant as a personal remark and hope you will accept that.
I will accept that you did not intend to offend, although perhaps you should consider more carefully the use of your words in future.
I think you’ll find all Stu has done is respond to the Story with is about Israel and the airport staff.
It is you Paddys.. that has decided to take his comments and change the story to the battles of Israel and Gaza which ok I expected to a point and it is an emotive issue but to be fair your changing the boundaries of the story has no relevence to what this comment page story is about.
It is therefore unfair to take someones comment on the story and change it to mean something different you wish to discuss.
Perhaps because ALL Human Rights need to be defended – not just those of ‘our friends’
Well said. We should all be concerned about the rights of Palestinians to quiet enjoyment of their homeland. It is quite wrong to characterise them all with the same brush of terrorism.
Absolutely – just in the same way all Christians are not homophobic, not all Palestinians are terrorists or terrorist sympathizers.
Human rights need to be applied equally and without prejudice.
….I notice you don’t think Israelis are terrorists, even tho they board aid ships from Europe on the high seas and force them at gunpoint to sail to their pariah state, where they steal 90% of what they were carrying. Explain please.
At no point on this thread have I said that Israelis are or are not engaged in terrorism – so thats a presumption on your part.
I do not condone or support Israeli actions – read what I have said.
That does not stop me recognising that in the area of LGBT rights they are exemplorary.
….even as a gay man i’m afraid i put basic human rights a long way ahead of the right of GLBs to marry or any of the other soft issues we middle class Europeans enjoy when i observe from the comfort of my Gay middle class Irish retreat, the abuse of men women and children who have to fight hard every day to find just enough food and water just so the terrorist state of Israel can exist. And they wonder why they are so hated?
Where have I said that LGBT rights are superior to general human rights?
I am merely observing that the Israelis are good in their approach to LGBT rights. That does not mean they are good in all human rights, nor does it mean they are the most important human rights, necessarily.
Now, I appreciate you are very much on one side of the argument when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian situation but this does not mean that the Israelis are inherently bad at everything.
Actually Paddys… if think the displacement of millions of Jews from their own country is you putting Human Rights first I think you need to take a big deep breath and think again.
I think you’ll find thats called being selective with Human Rights.
……i’m glad you put “our friends” in inverted commas, because the terrorist state that is Israel is not our friend! Oh it will pretend to be while it is passing round the begging bowl, but these terrorists barely tolerate us. It is only because of the largesse of the people of the USA that they even tolerate them.
You could suggest where these millions of Jews you wish displaced on should go?
The world is big enough for us all it is up to us to get along and deal with it.
…while they deny other human beings the right to freedom and basic human rights, in my book they are detestable, Period.
And while i’m at it my words “shallow and petty” stand and if you have a problem with my language, don’t read my comments.You have clearly forgotten you are no lomnger a policeman.
My avatar makes it pretty easy to avoid them..Just like the off switch on the telly….+
You are entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to voice mine – including what I think that is written in a public forum. Shallow and petty you may feel – well in my view it perfectly represents your approach to some aspects of this debate.
I am fully aware of what my former and current professions are and have no need for you to remind me.
Please do not try to censor what I can and can not comment on – thats the sort of tactics that those who are afraid of criticism or seek to control really use.
Here! Here! Stu!!!
Fair comment Staircase2
and kill you on site esp in mob brutality.
Israel clearly has upheld some human rights but chooses which ones to respect and which groups can claim them.
I do think the Israeli state stance on LGBT issues is generally good, although on other issues is horrendous.
It is disappointing that the airport agency make a very bland comment that makes no acknowledgement of their criticism by the individuals or the Israeli government.
Both sides need to improve.
I think that in today’s world, security should come before privacy. Rather no panties than no legs.
There is a difference between respecting ensuring security and being offensive …
I can remember carrying out stop checks under the prevention of terrorism act when I was a police officer – they were done with dignity and assertiveness at the same time.
Those who give up liberty for security, deserve neither.
- Benjamin Franklin
I agree with the sentiment of that – liberty is key and when security overtakes that, those that oppress causing the perception that security needs to be so draconian have in a sense won.
That said, with care security can be high and targetted and ensure that dignity, honour and liberty prevail. Its a difficult balance to achieve but is sustainable.
‘Today’s world’….? what does that mean?
There’s no difference in the technology of killing people – a bomb in 1976 could kill just as many people as a bomb in 2010 – whats the difference? (Aside from political and media coverage….)
Aside from anything else doing a security check does not entail abusing people – regardless of how fearful you may be about ‘todays world’……
I agree that killing people could have occurred in 1976 the same as it can today in 2011 – but I cant think of an occasion pre 21st century when airliners were used as weapons themselves full of people … clearly changed things from a security perspective – however, despite that change and increased (reasonable) fear – that should not mean that individuals dignities are not maintained in security screening.
Aren’t they always like this, everytime I’ve been there it’s a nightmare but I’ve generally accepted that being surrounded by their enemy they’ve got a perfect right to be strict, not sure whether I’d want to get on the plane if they weren’t. Wasn’t it a nightmare going to NI once. Guest or not of the state they need to be checked…my only criticsm is that they do seem to treat guys who they think are single differently and can assume becuase you are a guys travelling together then you are 2 single guys and not actually “married”..and yes they are probably racist when it comes to security checks!
In my experience American ones are just as bad, esp when it comes to being rude and disrepectful which one of the reasons I’d never set foot their again.
@Jock S Trap
The worst experiences (professionally) in airport security that I have experienced have been in the US.
I have travelled through over 60 countries as a flight medic with a flight medic bag containing emergency drugs, equipment etc etc. Countries that include Pakistan, Iran, Israel, South Africa, Russia, India, France, Turkey, Belarus and many more. In many of these countries I had to have my medic bag searched and provide documentation and explanation – all of which is reasonable. I have on occasion had to get airport security to refer to my airline to get clearance for certain items eg quick shears, laryngoscopes, sharps etc – which again is reasonable. In the US regardless I would not be allowed to leave the US with IV fluids bags for drips despite my humanitarian pleas of the support I could give in flight to passengers or my patient. Every single time I had to hand in bags of normal saline and glucose (all of which were double sealed in their original packagin
Now Canada, there a place that make you feel welcome!!
not really, they randomly searched my bag for absolutely no reason and nearly made me late for my connecting flight as a result. i didn’t get that crap when i went to israel.
There may have been a reason for a random search – such as increased intelligence that there was a risk to aircraft. They may not have communicated the reason well or chosen not to communicate the reason at all – but that does not mean there was no reason.
I bet if one goes to the Gay Pride marches in Syria and Egypt and the Lebanon, the airline security people don’t mess gay visitors around like this!
the difference is isreal claims to be democratic state, respectful of gay rights
being strip searched isn’t homophobic, kane, it happens to all kinds of people – irrespective of their sexual preference.
Being strip searched itself is not per se homophobic – depending how the strip searching is targetted and the attitude and behaviour of the search staff – that could then make the strip search process and handling homophobic
Shameful behaviour and then to say all passengers recieve the same treatment… Strip them all do they? I don’t think so.
Pleased the Israeli Ministry step in quickly, I don’t see many being that quick with any length investiagtion.
Clearly airport staff have a difficult job to do but their must be a difference between doing a job, protecting ones country and passengers and clear harrassment.
….Pleased the Israeli Ministry step in quickly, I don’t see many being that quick with any length investiagtion…..
its called damage control
True but I wonder if we would have had such a quick response even here in the UK?
I’m guessing there would be a half hearted apology followed by a lengthy investigation to see if they have anything to apologise for.
why dont we just insist on everybody flying naked from now on? Ok that might cause problems if someone spills coffee but its nice and safe
There’s still ways to ‘carry’ stuff without others knowing even while being naked.
If I didnt have a different view of you, I would ask If that was from personal experience, Jock S Trap? – ROFL
No but thanks for that… lol.
I’m not allowed to put what I wanted as partnered blackmailed me by withdrawing certain ‘services’ if I did.
I told him it’s not far but whats a lad to do? LOL
Wonders if my mind is working similarly to yours …
presumably that was before you became celibate…..
Could Never be celibate spanner… Never!!
Celibacy isn’t a choice I would/could make either
I wouldn’t know where to start really.. It would be such a waste that I couldn’t even think about being celibate.
You can’t have a man like mine and not enjoy it.
It would be like a big beautiful apple tree and never enjoying it’s ripe juicy fruits… hehe – sorry!!
@Jock S Trap
The images going through my head lol
But I do think we should make the most of our assets
I wonder what kind of treatment Mr Marti and his partner would have had at Damascus Airport or in Dubai or even Moscow Sheremetyeva?Airport Security staff can be difficult in all the free countries of the world and no-one can blame the Israelis for being strict bearing in mind the problems they face.At least they do not use tanks against their own people like the Arab dictators.
I would urge caution in shifting the responsibility for this to Mr Marti and his partner for two reasons. Firstly, there can be rigorous security that does not impact on the dignity of those you deal with. Secondly, the Israeli government themselves are concerned by the nature of the interventions in this case and given that the Israeli embassy will have had details provided of everything that happened – it seems to me the Israeli government are semi independent and able to determine whether Ben Guiron airport security were wrong in their actions.
…”At least they do not use tanks against their own people like the Arab dictators.” …..No, but they do use tanks, Napalm and Phospherous bombs against those they opress and whose country they stole.
Give it a rest Paddy.
…if you find something incorrect about my comment, point it out but don’t presume to tell me how i should behaveor comment! …………..
……..since when did you become Pink News editor…and by the way my tag is Paddyswurds. Your term is racist!
…if you find something incorrect about my comment, point it out but don’t presume to tell me how i should behave or comment. Since when did you become Pink News editor…and by the way my tag is Paddyswurds. Your term is racist!
The thing is when someone does point out the errors in your posts you then tell them not to comment and ignore your posts in the future – you can’t have it both ways
“Give it a rest Paddy” is hardly a legitimate or even intelligent comment. I don’t mind criticism when it is factual and genuine, but pleast don’t substitute complexity for legitimate debate as another poster said. plus Paddy used in the context Deil did, is clearly a racist term
Sorry but yet again Paddys… your rants have become somewhat boring and are actually contributing very little and a bit predictable.
Which is a shame because when you do have your calmer weeks you do actually make valid points and a pleasure to read.
It’s when your manic like now, accusing all of something or others, ranting on… it just becomes boring.
I’m not sure how using the word Paddy is racist but perhaps it’s an English term. It is also a bit silly given your abbreviation of my own name de Villiers – but that is a matter for you.
In any event, you have disrupted the thread with your unpleasant hectoring and have self-indulged yourself in these past messages. The reference to you giving a rest was an indication that I had no inclination to engage you on your extreme arguments and that it was unnecessary for you to inject your repeated points where they were not relevant.
You have done what Rich has done in another form. You have distorted the conversation by throwing in that which you want to say, which happens not to be in any way pertinent to this article.
They stole nothing. It was theirs. You’re a rabid anti-semite who selectively quotes history to support your utterly pathetic ‘argument’. The self-declared Palestinians have no business being there.
…if i’m a rabid anti semite how come I support wholeheartedly the Palestinian people who are also Semites, or does that not suit your agenda. So if i am an anti semite clearly you are too.
Actually, the term antisemitic is a modern word for an old prejudice which was coined purely in reference to Jews. It was first used by the Judeophobic political activist Wilhelm Marr in the 1880′s because he wanted to separate his secular and racist views from the traditional Judeophobia based on just the Jewish religion.
The fact is that they are all Semites or decendants of Shem, Son of Noah, Genisis.10.21, regardless of what twist pro Israelis put on it to suit their agenda. If they speak Arabic, Hebrew or Aramaic and a hodge poge of other languages then they are Semites according to Oxford Concise and that is good enough for me.
That is enough to dispel any notion that one who supports the Palestinian people against the terrorist Israelis can possibly be an antisemite.
However reading of your friend Marr it would seem that the Jews aren’t new to the mistreatment of their fellow man, Hence the Leagus of Anti Semites, the (False) origon you speak of.
The Palestinians were there before the terrorist Jews from Russia, Poland and Germany who came and set up the pariah state of Israel.
Ok this post had no relevance to the article, however Liechtenstein approved the Civil Union referendum! By almost 70%! Thought I’d just say that in case Pink News is late in reporting it.
Fabulous! Not equal marriage but a better place than where Liechtenstein were and a process towards it.
One step at a time.
James – I think this is a much more relvant “gay” news item and fantastic news…I’m personally finding it hard to link any gay aspect to this news article…if you go to Israel then security is the highest priority and if you’re male ,of a certain age and complexion and foreign then you’ve got to expect them to be cautious and I don’t blame them surrounded by countries that hate them……..it’s not the UK where we are relatively secure!!
The whole problem of homophobia in the western world began with Judaism. Same sex unions were commonplace in pagan europe before christianity and the spread of the monotheistic virus.
Prefer virus to cornerstone in terms of terminology – however, virus implies something which people have no control over and faith and other philosophical or political stances are a matter of choice.
The Judaeic state of Israel and Americas gravely mistaken support of it, could also be said to be the virus that set off world terrorism, the consequences of which we all now have to put up with.
NOw that is just contrived suggesting that Israel is responsible for world terrorism … thats laughable as a reasoned and rational argument
So is there any suggestion that this was an anti-gay act on the part of the security staff?
If so, why did they only strip-search one of the couple?
Why not both?
Come to that, why not ALL of the gay visitors that flew out after the event?
To me this just looks like a random airport strip search, which is now sadly and predictably being used as a rather poor reason to have yet another pop at Israel.
The minister concerned apologised. What more do you want? Blood?
Do we know that other gays were not strip searched and have not also complained?
Do we know that other strip searches were not part of the complaint to the Israeli embassy in Madrid?
There should not be random strip searches in any event – that is an affront to dignity and international human rights legislation would dictate it is inappropriate. Targetted strip searches based on evidence or intelligence is a different matter.
@Stu – I think we’d know all about it if other gays were strip searched, actually. As a people we’re pretty good at complaining.
Not usually good about complaining about security – there is a fear of security, especially Israeli security and once they have got home – there is then apathy – they are no longer in Israel – will they be taken seriously? – its human nature to complain only if you feel it will be taken seriously and doesnt take too much effort. How many could have been bothered to go to their local Israeli embassy to make representations?
I know for a fact the UK public do not find out about every police complaint or complain against the ambulance service – and why should they … but I suspect if that is the case in a relatively open government like the UK – then it will be much less so in Israel
The Israeli government isn’t closed, and I do know people who have complained to the Israeli embassy and have had satisfactory responses actually.
I personally would make a complaint to the Israeli embassy if I felt strongly about it. I am aware that the Israeli government can respond fairly to criticism and complaint (depending on the issue that is involved). That does not alter that some people would not be motivated to complain and that some people (for understandable reasons) may perceive that the Israelis would not respond appropriately to any complaint.
…knowing the thuggishness of the terrorist Israelis, blood may not be too far fetched. Next they will be asking for a vial of your DNA and you won’t even have to leave your own home for them to demand it.
Having a paranoid moment, are we dear …
Wholeheartedly agree Christine. There was clearly a break in communication that allowed State guests to be treated like the common traveling folk, but that has got nothing to do with almost the entire debate/rant on this thread.
This sounds like a lot of fuss over nothing. They should try declaring themselves homosexual in one of the neighbouring states, such as Saudi Arabia. I’d like to see the whole of the Middle East annexed by Israel. I find Muslims useless and lazy, and the so-called Palestinians have no business polluting Israel’s borders with their smell and hatred.
You may be right that there are worse abuses of dignifty and humanity elsewhere – does not make this experience honourable
I agree, Stu. We have no way of knowing at this stage, but my guess is that the matter will be looked into by the Israelis. This wouldn’t be the case in a neighbouring country.
That is indeed a fair point – and appears to have been done expeditiously which is to the Israeli’s credit
r u 4 real? responding to blatant racist comment, really, well done mate
Where is the racism?
Where is there an unfactual element in this argument?
How about this bit
……. I find Muslims useless and lazy, and the so-called Palestinians have no business polluting Israel’s borders with their smell and hatred……
So u simply assumed that ‘factual element’ will perfectly do to address that bit
I was looking at the comment immediately preceding mine – I should have looked a little further back
I challenged the particular comment you are talking about – not on grounds of racism I concede, but challenge it nonetheless – the response was reasonable (again not about the racism but about the issue I raised)
If you wish to address the racism – be my guest …
….If you wish to address the racism – be my guest …
im dying to see a elaborated version of the above
Why do I need to elaborate – its you who wish to deal with the racism …
……Why do I need to elaborate – its you who wish to deal with the racism …….
i dont think u need to any more, racism, such a feeble thing, who really cares, well def not stu
I was looking at the comment immediately preceding mine – I should have looked a little further back….. You seem to be making a habit of that of late. You also missed wher the JST person invoked the Godwin Principle against me. Read the whole thraed Stu and stop scanning ; you can’t do it properly. In the past i wondered if you had read my comment and the post i was commenting on before weilding your truncheon.
May I remind people that Paddys.. have proven by his own faults to change his nickname to suit his arguments.
He has been caught red handed before.
@Paddyswurds / Kane
Look, I hold my hands up and admit on this portion of the thread I have made an error. If that means you think that I don’t care about racism or that I don’t pay attention to the thread, so be it – you are free to form your own opinions about me. They would be incorrect opinions. Racism is one thing I can never tolerate and if you read (I know there are a lot of them – you will see that the foundation of most of my statements on PN are a yearning for real and true equality – not just gay rights but all forms of rights). I made an error on responding on this thread having been through reading several times and missed on a re-read the end point of the comments. Now I know Paddyswurds is angry because I have responded to him and criticised him and is lashing out – and thats fine, I can understand that. It doesnt change my view that his opinion of the Middle East situation is biased and wrong. Nor does it change my view that racism is wrong.
Nor does it change my view that the entire situation in the Middle East is very politically complex.
Nor does it make me any less aware of my current or former professions – or change my recognition of the ridiculous nature of Paddyswurds seeking to bring that into a debate at every juncture.
Nor does it change my view that some individual airport security staff at Ben Guiron airport were probably overzealous – and thats what this thread is all about!
……”You may be right” Ffs. You just lost any smidgen of credibility you ever had Stu. You are no on a par with the vile JST. To agree anything with the above commentator is beyond reason.
in response to your agreeing with the racist commentator therealist on anything!
I note you quote one part of my comment and not in full because if you quoted it in full it wouldnt meet the rhetoric that you wish to portray.
For the record, I condemn all racism and I could have done so more in this particular comment and I was remiss in that.
@ Stu ..
…well im glad you are big enough to admit that at least.Therealist is a racist ash*le.
It matters little to me whether you personally believe I have any credibility … I am more than comfortable in knowing that I think about things and try and seek some balance – if your mindset is such that you have hostile and immoveable opinions, thats for you to rant about – and you clearly are able to do so. I for one, admit my errors – but I profoundly disagree with many of your opinions on this thread and how you have hijacked the thread.
He was replying to the post immediately above him. He didn’t check to see what else I had written. Unlike you he responds honestly to the evidence he sees immediately before him. And, unlike you, I am sure he is not full of thoughts of ethnic cleansing in the middle east, masquerading as ‘concern’ for the ‘Palestinians’. I might not be impressed with Arabs, but I don’t want to see them wiped off the map, as you do. Why don’t they just filter into the neighbouring lands of the ‘brotherhood’. Don’t answer. You’re too stupid to answer.
but that doesnt stop u from being a thick racist, who cant compose a single coherent sentence, talk about being too stupid, u r such a waste of space
….where have i ever said i wanted Arabs wiped off the Map or anyone for that matter, altho i’m willing to make an exception in the case of a vile ass*ole like you. Why should they “just filter into neighbourhood lands” just to accomodate the terrorist pariah state that is Israel. It is their country not Israels. The Palestianans were there thousands of years before the Jews from Germany, Poland and Russia walked in the forties and stole it from them at the point of a gun you Z!onist asshole!
Kane. Learn to write. Paddy, you are stoned, or drunk. Arabs were not there for THOUSANDS of years. You are just Jew-hating scum, because like the lazy Arabs, you’ve failed in your life, and this electronic forum is all you have to vent your unjustified frustration. Go to Saudi Arabia, and tell them you’re a poof.
Mountain out of a molehill. Every now and then, airline security strip search someone and it happens in a LOT of countries. It’s a fact. Deal with it. And they ask questions. It’s part of their job.
And has anyone noticed how incredibly vague the article is? “asked a series of personal questions which he *claims* exceeded reasonable limits”? By whose standards, may I ask?
I’m sorry, but it’s not enough for me to get outraged about yet. Nothing to do with being gay, just standard security protocol.
We cant criticise the people for complaining because of the journalism – that is not their fault.
I didn’t criticize them for complaining, stu – read my comment. I pointed out that the journalism is vague, doesn’t really point to any particular homophobic or unfair action so I don’t really see what the fuss is about.
I didnt go into detail about what I meant in my comment so I can understand it being misinterpreted – apologies.
What I meant that was because the journalism is vague, we don’t know the facts. We can resume there was no particular homophobic element to the issue because it is not clearly expounded in the article – but we don’t know this. The people concerned perceived some homophobia so must have some reason to believe they were treated homophobically. So to say its a mountain out of a molehill on the basis of vague journalism does not do justice to those who feel they have grounds of complaint – that was my view.
At the Oval cricket ground last Monday I first had my bag searched and two cans of ginger beer confiscated and then had a frisking. Seemed over the top for a T20 match. But someone might have thrown a can!
By the same measure, someone might plant a bomb on a flight leaving Israel. How would the world react to “Oh we didn’t search all the passengers because they had clearly just been to Tel Aviv Gay Pride”
I will start this by saying that I wasnt at either The Oval when you were searched nor was I at Ben Guiron airport when this incident occurred – so I do not know the facts.
However, I would suspect you were not strip searched. I suspect it was politely explained to you why your bag needed to be searched and why the cans were being retained either due to regulations or a full reasoning. I suspect your dignity was not affronted at any point during the security screening.
From my interpretation of the journalism I have read on this issue I can see no obvious justification for a strip search or indication that if there was that this was politely and appropriately explained. It seems that at Ben Guiron airport there was individual(s) whose dignity was affronted.
Responsibility for safety and security does not absolve someone of their responsibility for respecting anothers dignity and a cursory look at both events suggest it is possible.
True, there was no strip search at the Hobbs Gate – mustn’t frighten the horses – and I fully accepted what they did (though dreading the cost to Surrey CCC). Most security appraisal of passengers involves a combination of risk assessment – looking at the guy, the kind of luggage they carry, how often they travel and where etc., on top of what the computer throws up – and then there is the random searching. A strip search would be pretty rare and if I was on site and in charge I would want to have some pretty strong feel that this was a worthwhile case. Obviously the strip search and any questioning should be done politely and under appropriate supervision. But I haven’t been to Israel and don’t know how many thousands pass through its airports, and so what pressures the staff are under. Airports can themselves be targets, let alone aircraft. So I would need to know more detail before saying Israeli officials were definitely in the wrong; but I doubt there’s no smoke without some fire.
….Poor you, having your handbag looked in before you went into the Oval. Re-read your post and see how shallow and pathetic it is when compared with Palestinian families being stripped of their skin by phosphorous bombs fired at them by Israel nightly.
Have you realised yet that the reason you were inconvenienced was because of America and Britains support for the terrorist pariah state of Israel and that is an indisputeable fact.
Why Gay people would want to support the Israeli Apartheid Regime is beyond me. The issue is trying to con gays into parting with their Pink Pounds & indirectly legitimizing segregation & “racism”
I can separate different policy avenues of the Israelis – I abhor their treatment of the Palestinians and their intransigence. I welcome and value their views on LGBT rights as a nation.
It is no different from welcoming the UK government approach to LGBT rights (albeit requiring improvement) but being critical of their military involvement in Iraq.
Iraq was dreadful call by the UK – Israel, by defining itself as a “jewish state” is by its own definition, either an entity based on a religion (like Iran & the Vatican) or a racist entity, if one believes that jews are a race, (highly debatable). So discrimination is inbuilt into the state and not just an despicable event like Iraq.
That does not mean, if one accepts your argument, that Israelis are necessarily predisposed to prejudice in every area. I would still say with regards LGBT rights they have a credible record.
…you keep parroting and laboring that point, but their support of Gay rights is pathetic when compared to the despicable way they treat the Palestinian people and hardly comparable. What do you think would be the answer if you asked a Gay Palestinian if he could choose between basic human rights, freedom and safety or gay rights. Exactly! And please excuse me for reading your mind and if i got it wrong, Shame on you!
South Africans & Southerners (USA) were hospitable to Europeans but behaved disgraceful towards blacks. Ditto Israelis towards Palestinians, so what’s your point?
But we are not talking about Palestinian gay rights – thats something for an entirely different debate – we are talking about the legitimacy of Israeli gay rights which are credible. Interestingly the Palestinian Authority are not quite as progressive on gay rights.
Now, I agree there are significant human rights shifts needed by both the Israeli’s and the Palestinians if they are to demonstrate equity and fairness but purely because I recognise LGBT rights in Israel being demonstratively good does not mean that I endorse other human rights policies and approaches of either Israel or Palestine and for you to present my thoughts as such is disingenuous.
I am not parroting anything – merely pointing out things as I see them. As for labouring – no, I am defending my position which is reasonable and considered and factual. It can not be denied that the Israelis are the best at considering LGBT rights in the Middle East – yes, debate can be had on wider issues of human rights but that does not change the reality of Israeli LGBT rights.
Not everyone disagreed with segregation (as was) in the Southern USA or South Africa and were also able to sing the praises of some aspects of the USA & South Africa. But times change and there is a bigger picture and state sanctioned apartheid policies bit the dust – yippee!
My partner & i were pleased to go to Israel in may. It was their 63rd anniversary of the state.
It was also Eurovision.
at Heathrow, the el al security staff were thorough and polite. They also apologised when they split us up for questioning when they realised we were a couple. No issues then at Tel Aviv.
My personal experience of Israeli officials are that they are polite, thorough and do not discriminate … which suggests in this instance that it may have been one or two individuals that were acting appropriately – if that is the case
Paddyswurds, the rationale you use is absurd. Its tantamount to the British blaming the Italians for the 400 year Roman ccupation of England, as well as the Vikings (Danes), the Normans (French) for subjugating the English or the Irish supposedly neutral government at the time of WW2 for giving safe harbour to German U-boats which results in the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of British and American servicemen.
How can you draw a comparison between that to the topic at hand? Makes no sense.
@Robert… Read the whole thread and try using your tiny brain and see how the thread developed. Everything isn’t black and white. and the origon of this thread is irellevant when one considers the Treatment being meted out by the terrorist Israelis to the Palestinian people.
….i notice you conveniently ignore the fact that the Irish Government allowed the overflight of a large part of its territory, Donegal, to allow the Americans and British flying boats using Lough Erne, direct access to the Atlantic.
There is no truth in the myth that the German U boats got safe haven in Ireland during the Emergency any more thanthey did in Greenland and if you know something history hasn’t recorded you should bring it to the relevant authorities.
Do you really think that Ireland and the USA would have the relationship they have and have always had if that were true. Idiot. Godwins Principle rears its head again.
Now take your meds and off to bed pet.
Ah – I agree with something you say – everything isnt black and white … and that applies entirely to the Israeli/Palestinian situation too
Nothing more Jew-hating than a good old Irishman. (Might be the Catholic connection, might be because Paddy here is a born cnut.) Never met one who didn’t admire Hitler.
…………Godwins Principle again. Pathetic and a racist as well.
Godwin didnt say that mentioning the holocaust in debate was always a bad thing …
Someone’s taught the Jew-hating village idiot Godwin’s Principle! He’ll conquer the world!
….no, but he did say it tends to stifle debate or even bring debate to an illegitimate conclusion, as is clearly demonstrated by a couple of idiotic posters on this thread, i’m sure you know who I mean without me having to point them out. I’m done with this thread at this point because of them.
Israel is about as much Muslim as Tower Hamlets is. Demanding something is yours doesn’t actually make it so. You Islamic hole-licker.
Israel has every right to protect and defend itself. Calling it a terrorist state is uncalled for. When you have almost every islamic country surrounding it calling for its annihilation, then the shoe is on the other foot.
isreal a terrorist state? well some of top official in israel are on Interpol wanted list
In fact, the top 8 on that list include no Israelis, and only three Muslims.
….and why do you think that is. It is an illigitemate pariah state and it is stealing from the Palestinians. It is not their country plain and simple. As i said elsewhere, they have a better claim to the area of northeastern Germany western Poland and Southern Russia than Palestine. Palestine owes them nothing . They are russian German anPolish jews who came in the late forties and stole the area in question at the point of a gun with the help of Britain and the US.
With respect to all participants, nobody seems to have pointed out – on the facts as we know them, – that the swift, clear apology and frankly harsh criticsm of the airport security people came from a Ministry headed by the most extreme right-winger out of all Israel’s Ministers. I do not fear for our democracy.
But generally, if from the one side the answer to everything that happens in Israel is “They stole Palestine”, and the counter-squeal is “Just like the Whites stole America and Australia”, – then there’s no point in arguing with each other. Who was it that stole England, actually ? The Romans ? The Danes ? The Normans ?
It is sterile and alas usually ends up as a mutual rant, – with damage done all round and this party or that then having to waste a page or two apologizing……
We really should try to stick to the issue and balance our views.
Absolutely … if we look hard enough there is historical fault on all sides. Now the situation in Israel/Palestine is not right (for either side) but this story is about the alleged over zealousness of airport security at Ben Guiron airport – the political dynamic of Israel/Palestine whilst interesting is not directly relevant.
…your comment is pathetic and childish. Were the English people wiped out by genocide as the Native Americans and Native Ozzies were, by murder and European diseases like syphlis and small pox. I dont think so.
There is nothing sterile about it except to the intellectually challenged as you appear to be.
Well finally iv’e reach the leading edge of the thread. We can all help Palestine by not supporting the Pariah State of Israel, and this can be done by boycotting ALL their produce, staying away from their vile state and contributing as much as possible to Palestinian Charities and Charities that support Palestine. The power of the Pink Pound/Dollar is phenominal and Israels cynical support for GLB rights is evidence that they realise that.
The boycott tactic was used successfully to help support the ANC and overthrow the aparteid state that was the old South Africa and can be successfull again.
Israel is not an apartheid state (whatever that might mean). As I said above “Many Palestinian arabs live inside Israel and vote in its elections. The United Arab List is the currently the most well known political grouping (better known by its Hebrew name ‘Ra’am’) and currently has members sitting in the Israeli Parliament – the Knesset. This grouping espouses the destruction of Israel and invasion of the territory by the decendants of the arabs who left in the middle of last century but is nonetheless allowed to function because Israel is a democracy. There are other arab members of the Knesset. Do you know of any other country that would allow such a political grouping to remain active whilst it was fighting for its survival and surrounded by enemies?”
The idea that the only secular democracy in the middle east ihas no right to fight for its life, or the lives of its inhabitants, is absolutely ridiculous.
Paddy’s rhetoric is high falutin’ and but it is devoid of any sense.
Actually, if you were to check your History, – (if it is your’s), – you will find that the Romans and the Danes and the Normans did a pretty good job in reducing if not, (thankfully), wiping out local populations and driving much of the rest the into the corners which we now call Scotland and Wales….. – but never mind the facts.
But, dear Paddyswurds, you prefer to rant, – it requires less intellectual effort after all.
I rest my case.
…total rot. So by your history when the Romans left Britain was essentially empty for a few hundred years. Get a grip you childish idiot. The indiginous Brits lived happily amongst and alongside the romans and as for thedanes less than 10 thousand of them came to Britain. Go back to school and pay better attention in history class.
It’s PAY better attention in history class.
Educational standards have slipped.
……what are you blathering about now. One doesn’t insert uppercase words in the middle of a sentence. You should join him and take up reading!
You are unbelievably stupid. If your thoughts are like your spellings, no wonder you need the British to run your life.
…. go maith ar a laghad, tá mé leithscéal, nach bhfuil mo theanga dhúchais Englysh …. cad do leithscéal?
He says that well at least, he’s sorry but English isn’t his native language then asks, what your excuse?
I think your use of sorry is somewhat misplaced.
He also has clearly used a translator because of the way the content is put is jumbled.
Instead of asking what other people’s excuse is maybe you should define your own as sheer arrogance.
Daoine botúin a dhéanamh nuair a scríobhann siad, chuir mé mo lámh ar bun, mar sin cad.
Faid a thuiscint daoine eile, nach bhfuil sé suas chun tú a bheith petty!
Which to everyone else translates to:-
People make mistakes when they write, I put my hand up, so what.
While other people understand, it is not up to you to be petty!
I don’t know why anyone would travel to Israel on holiday.
The rudeness and ignorance of the security staff in the airports is really unnecessary and seems designed not to increase security, but instead to humiliate and embarrass visitors.
The security checks entering Israel are designed to make sure that people have a bad impression of the country.
I’ve travelled to Israel with work on several occasions.
But I would never travel there on holiday. I’m sure there are many interesting places to see and visit. But really – I’d rather travel somewhere where the concept of courtesy and good manners means something.
To be fair I have only travelled to Israel for business reasons not for tourism – although I would be interested in doing so both in terms of seeing some of the history, experiencing the gay scene and diving. That said, I don’t feel comfortable doing so currently – partly due to the security situation and partly because politically I don’t feel the situation has been resolved sufficiently for me to ethically travel there out of choice.
David, Alas, I tend to agree. I have only ever been there on business, but the last time it took 5 gruelling hours to get out of Ben Gurion Airport, an experience I care little to repeat. I felt like telling them “really, have you looked around, no one wants to say here, so how’s about just letting me go, eh?”
I was in Tel Aviv for Gay Pride. It was more gay friendly than London, Paris, Amsterdam, NY, Bangkok or San Francisco. Until recently gay friends who visited the US had to hide their HIV medicine, because they could have been refused entry, and for decades, if you were just effeminate you could have been refused entry to the US. Israel could act like the US and refuse entry to muslims, or like the US and refuse entry to political enemies (Celia Cruz was refused entry to the US for being a communist). And whilst the Israeli airport staff do ask a lot of searching questions, they even asked them of hassidic jews! As black Americans have pointed out, it is stupid and offensive for anyone to accuse Israel of apartheid, and the Palestinian population has massively increased in the last 60 years, so what kind of genocide is that??
I bet he loved it really.
What happened did a bus of Socialist Workers Party lunatics find out how to use their community computer?
Top comment “Stuart Neyton”. Punch his name in Google, he’s a radical socialist anarchist who despises Israel. Typical comment from his twitter: “Why is the su full of israeli flags?”
He won’t even have an Israeli flag in his Student Union. He’s that nice.
Then the anti-Jew racism.
RedDevil: “It’s an automatic Jewish response for their war crimes in Palestine.”
jgeetas says it’s “highly debatable” Jews are a race and if they are then Israel is racist because it’s the homeland of the Jews.
But the absolute worst of all is Paddyswurds.
He says Palestinians and Jews are Semites and therefore can’t be anti-Semitic becuase he’s pro-Palestinian. It’s enough to make your head hurt. His racistic quip: “Jews aren’t new to the mistreatment of their fellow man” is as wrong as his historical accuracy.
Some facts for once:
All human rights of all people are respected in Israel. NOT Apartheid NOT racist.
Jews have been settling Israel for over 1000 years, long before Paddyswurds’ “terrorist Jews from Russia, Poland and Germany…walked in the forties and stole it from them at the point of a gun”
European Jews’ ancestry is from historical Palestine – Israel.
These are hard facts. Too many people abuse and attack Jews with apparent impunity.
On an unrelated note, through a process of reduction, I believe the filter refused to accept my posy because it contained the N word.
Replace the * with i above.
I think you’ll find they may actually be Paddys… along with kane.-
He has been caught trying to change names before, before realising he still on same IP address so with avatar.
I’m sure there is more to this story. I’ve visited TLV loads of times and haven’t found the staff at the airport to be aggressive in any form. Even when having to go through more vigilant security checks. Shame in him for bringing negative pr to this great country.
LOL – this country is one where neither gay nor straight couples are alliowed to enter a civil marriage.
And just because gay people enjoy more rights than elsewhere in the area; that in no way justifies Israel’s disgustingly racist Apartheid regime.
Israel is fast becoming a pariah state due to its racism.
Don’t make me laugh – racism and apartheid being applied to Israel. That’s rich – and ridiculous!
Many Palestinian arabs an Bedouin live inside Israel and vote in its elections. The United Arab List is the currently the most well known political grouping (better known by its Hebrew name ‘Ra’am’ perhaps) and currently has members sitting in the Israeli Parliament – the Knesset. This grouping espouses the destruction of Israel and the invasion of its territory by the decendants of the arabs who chose to leave in the middle of last century but it is nonetheless allowed to function because Israel is a non-racist democracy. There are other arab members of the Knesset, also. Do you know of any other country that would allow such a political grouping to remain active whilst it was fighting for its survival and surrounded by enemies? Israel also provides medical care to the arabs in the West Bank/Gaza Strip as well as financing and feeding those self-same arabs who fire thank-you rockets back.
WHY did you all go there ? Being Gay is about money/music/fashion/fun/fun/fun not one clear taught for other Gay peoples suffering, I despair of Gay people these days, NO Gay person should have gone to this event in Israel you all helped make the State respectful “PINK WASHED” it. Well done . Gay Pride my A…