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French parliament rejects gay marriage bill

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  1. Liberty, equality, fraternity.

    Utterly meaningless in modern day France.

    1. Eddy - from 2007 15 Jun 2011, 12:47pm

      “Liberty, equality, fraternity. Utterly meaningless in modern day France.”
      Nonsense! 222 voted FOR, compared to just 292 against.
      I would live in France ANY day.

      1. Edward Mendoza 15 Jun 2011, 5:57pm

        I would like to know the vote among political party lines. Without better information, I very strongly suspect that the Socialist Party would have approved the law. Right now, the conservative parties in France are in charge of national politics there.

        1. As far as I know “Socialiste, radical, citoyen et divers gauche” and “Gauche démocrate et républicaine” voted for and the UMP and “Nouveau Centre” voted against with the exceptions from the UMP party of “Franck Riester, Henriette Martinez, Jean-Louis Borloo, Laurent Hénart et Yves Jégo,” and some UMP members abbstained “Nicole Ameline, Valérie Rosso-Debord et Christian Estrosi” – but someone may know more accurate voting??? Yes, if the PS had the majority then there would be marriage equality in France, it’s their bill!

  2. Very sad, but I guess it was expected at this time.

  3. That’s not bad though…a good start considering the UMP are in power over. At least they’ve raised the subject in the lower house. I wonder what the voting would be if the lib dems raised a bill to introduce marriage equality over here?

    1. I think it’s pass. Lib Dems, Green, SNP, Plaid & Labour would vote strongly in favour.

      The Tories would be split along the more liberal wing of the party – just thinking back to the Civil Partnership vote in 2005.

      & the Northern Ireland parties would vote strongly against it.

      Shame no Marriage Equality bill is going to be introduced anytime soon.

      1. It’d*

      2. and the house of lords? Yeah, other countries seem to work on the principle that the bill is raised first and then it goes thru various committees, lower houses etc..the UK just seems to offer a consultation process with no end date! and presumably then raises the bill after the consultation process which doesn’t actually have an end date….good way to drag the process out I guess and keep us guessing.

        1. No Idea about the Lords, I know there’s been loads of new peers since the formation of the Coalition. I’ve no idea how many of them are Conservatives.

          I think Labour has the largest amount of members in the Lord. Maybe even a majority when added with the Lib Dem Peers. However I have a strong feeling that a Marriage Bill would pass both houses. Guess we just need one first!

          1. The tories have the largest number or people in the house of lords I think. Not sure but I think thats what I heard.

        2. I think the Lords are changing too …

          The CP bill got through both houses of parliament when they realised where public opinion is

          1. There’s hardly any different between Partnerships & Marriage anyway, they’d probaly easily pass it. I’m just wondering if it will happen in the next 5 years.

          2. Jock S. Trap 15 Jun 2011, 3:45pm

            I agree James I sure we’ll get it but it will, I suspect, be the Lords that try to stuff it up.
            -
            I think when Religious CPs start at the end of the year it’ll go along way to changes attitudes.

          3. JST – if you’re so keen/convinced that “religious” CPs (they’re not actually religious!) will have an impact on marriage equality then I hope you’ve responded to the consultation process, the Christian Inst have ,so you have to counter these kind of responses if you really want them!
            http://www.christian.org.uk/wp-content/downloads/civilpartnerships_june2011.pdf

          4. Jock S. Trap 16 Jun 2011, 9:13am

            john
            It would be ignorant to think I hadn’t!
            ;)

      3. Jock S. Trap 15 Jun 2011, 3:35pm

        I think it would fly through the Commons here, however the Lords?

        1. You know, I actually think they would. I mean 10 years ago they legalised Gay adoption, 7 years ago they passed the Civil Partnership act. Which if you think about it, is a bigger step than the simple change to Marriage Equality, considering all the things they include. I understand that the layout of the Lords has changed in the last 12 months. However, I honestly think it could pass in both chambers. I guess we’ll just have to wait and hope!

      4. Jock S. Trap 15 Jun 2011, 3:39pm

        I have to say now we have devolved parliaments where Scotland, Ireland and Wales are making up their own minds Without any say from London Parliament nor English voters, neither of them should have a vote in our arrangements on Marriage Equality.
        It is very unfair but I suspect you might be right James, if it was to fail it would be because of devolved area MPs.
        It would be scandalous is Scotland got this Equality then Scottish MPs (for example) voted against it in London for elsewhere.
        Nothing personal just an observation.

  4. Just wondered did any UMP member vote in favour of it or have at least one good word to say about it ??

      1. thanks for that, just found this interesting article as well, although the dumb article seems to think the UK has gay marriage as well.

        http://www.english.rfi.fr/visiting-france/20110609-same-sex-marriage-debated-french-national-assembly

        listen tab of the above link has a gay French couple who have got married in Canada and are not taking the French authorities to court to have their marriage recognised in France …it’s in English

    1. Some UMP deputies voted for it, though we also got treated to another nice little homophobic outburst from Christian Vanneste.

  5. Not surprising with Sarkozy opposed. Let’s hope he’s ousted in the next election, he’s dipping in the polls as it is.

    Meanwhile, across the pond in New York, two to three votes are needed to pass it in that state and they have until June 20th to do it. Maybe if it happens there, it will ignite discussion in all parties over here.

  6. Maybe someone should ship the statue of liberty back to them.

  7. eddy two, yes if New York passes marriage equality! As David in the first post said, liberty, equality, fraternity mean nothing in modern day France. It only applies if you’re straight. Sarkozy is too thick to even grasp that.

  8. This is great news, the French know how to do things and how to get things done!
    Shame the UK cannot take a leaf out of their book.

    1. What is great news?

      1. The great news is that the main opposition party riased a bill and were backed by most of the smaller parties and some UMP parties and that marriage equality is now firmly in the public eye…the UMP party were never going to raise the issue nor were they ever going to embark on an open ended consultation process like the one that has been promised to us…The UK is currently a coalition govt . if next time around the Tories get a big majority then you can probably kiss marriage equality goodbye for another 5 yrs or so, if the lib dems or opposition don’t do anything soon then will the UK really have the MP numbers to get marriage equality after the next election? I suspect we wil be in the same sitution as France with the ruling party being a right wing , traditionalist , conservative party with the majority votes..

        1. “if next time around the Tories get a big majority then you can probably kiss marriage equality goodbye for another 5 yrs or so,”

          I’ll vote Tory then.

    2. Jock S. Trap 15 Jun 2011, 3:46pm

      Oo-er James, whats good about France Rejecting Marriage Equality?

      1. Another country standing up to the millitant homosexuals and their plight to take over everything.

        1. A paranoid view as archaic and laughable as your use of the word ‘plight’ in this context.

        2. Jock S. Trap 16 Jun 2011, 9:15am

          Wow, why so threatened James.
          Exactly how does anybody LGBTQI affect you?

  9. Têtuniçois 14 Jun 2011, 10:52pm

    Next year if the socialist party win the election we will have same sex marriage and adoption for gays couples . Sarkozy and his party UMP are homophobics . Sarkozy SHAME ON YOU !

    1. Dan Filson 15 Jun 2011, 1:18am

      A big if, that.

  10. When the hideous conservatives are kicked out, then Marriage Equality will happen in France,

  11. jamestoronto 15 Jun 2011, 3:10am

    Liberty, equality, fraternity.

    Great words!!! Even though they are wasted ones in France. Time for the French to rethink their motto. Suggestions??

  12. I guess the French have got one part of it right, they have CP/PACS equality. In the UK we have to get CP and marriage equality through. CP equality may be just as controversial as marriage equality and probably as Stonewall pointed out costly, something that the Tories will jump at!

    1. Têtuniçois 15 Jun 2011, 7:17am

      Pacs in France is not like marriage . Pacs is open to straight and gay people . We fight for the same marriage for equality .
      CP is an matrimonial apartheid . CP for gay people and marriage for straight people ? iT’s a shame .
      Can you imagine CP for black couples and marriage for white couples ? No of course , it”s racism .
      CP for straight people and Marriage for gay people , it’s homophobia

      1. But in France, the number of PACS are increasing among the straights and since it’s quite different to our British CP and marriage then there is a valid reason to keep it even if France introduces “gay” marriage. In the UK, CPs have the same rights (more or less) as marriages. The only reason for them to continue is to merely satisfy the wants of people who don’t like the hetero normative word of marriage , not a very strong reason. In the UK we’re wanting not only to inroduce marriage equality but CP equality. Yet no-one has really done much research on what CP equality actually means/costs and why we want it and how many people want it. At least France doesn’t have to bother with this, it has CP/PACS equality. The UK has a double task in front of it, marriage equality which is the important one and CP equality which isn’t a LGBT issue and as far as I know since it is so similar to marriage and has the same obligations as marriage isn’t being asked for by straights.

  13. As Seven European states – Norway, Spain, Belgium, Portugal, the Netherlands, Sweden and Iceland – allow gay couples to marry. we already know that marriage is not just between one man and one woman.
    What reasons do each of France, Germany and UK put forward presently for disallowing marriage equality?

    1. The court ruled that the ban did not breach the French constitution and said it was up to parliament whether to change the law.
      As it is not within the powers of the court to change the law will somone now introduce a bill to the French parliament to allow full marriage equality?

      1. Didn’t the PS party just do that (backed by most of the smaller parties)?..from the article posted above it sounds like marriage equality will hopefully be a hot topic in the run up to the presidential election, it happenned in Australia as well when we had the last election. Most people are in favour of it and from what I gather here is that a few UMP mps either voted for or abstained from the vote which shows possibly a bit of a weak spot in the UMP party…who would want to be on the side of Vanneste and his homophobic attacks anyway?

  14. Jock S. Trap 15 Jun 2011, 10:27am

    This is all the fault of the religious bigots. They shouldn’t be allowed to exist.

    1. Jock S. Trap 15 Jun 2011, 3:48pm

      Why?

    2. Jock S. Trap 15 Jun 2011, 3:48pm

      Are you that weak you have to hide behind others?

    3. Why have you stolen Jock S. Trap’s username? I’m very confused…

    4. Jock S. Trap 16 Jun 2011, 7:31am

      I haven’t stolen it. I’m Scottish and called Scott Trap. Thus Jock. S Trap.

      And everything is the fault of the religiously motivated bigots. Everything. They should be locked up; all of them.

      1. Jock S. Trap 16 Jun 2011, 9:17am

        Sort this out of do I have to change MY name again to please people stealing it?
        Why do I have to bother, can you?
        Getting pissed off with this now.
        Too ill to keep getting you to act.

        1. Jock S. Trap 16 Jun 2011, 9:20am

          This is the copy of the complaint I have sent PinkNews.
          Will they act?
          I doubt it.

      2. Jock S. Trap 16 Jun 2011, 9:19am

        Whose other names do you steal?

  15. Silvan Agius 15 Jun 2011, 11:03am

    The use of the term gay marriage is incorrect as it gives the impression that it is separate than [normal] marriage. The French Parliament discussed the widening of the existing marriage legislation to include same-sex partners within the scope of current legislation. The recurrent use of ‘gay marriage’ by Pink News is causing problems to the LGBTI movement.
    Silvan Agius, Policy Director, ILGA-Europe

    1. Marriage equality is my preference.

  16. It’s odd that French social conservatives have accepted PAC but baulked at same sex marriage.

    PACS (at least as I understand it) is effectively a form of “marriage lite” with fewer rights and responsibilities – and much easier to dissolve. The growing trend towards hetero PACS really is weakening the traditional concept of marriage for life.

    I should have thought that sincere conservatives would welcome gay people who wanted to make the more binding commitment of marriage, but it seems that, as so often with conservatives, rationality is overruled by prejudice.

    1. and I wonder how the traditionalist tories in the UK and bishops in the house of lords will react when we start asking for straight CPs , what will they think when more heteros start doing CPs rather than marriages, they’ll draw upon France’s current trends and be horrified at the downfall of the traditional instituion of marriage….CP equality for straights could be a real sticking point …Holland already had CP equality long before marriage equality, they didn’t have to make the 2 steps at the same time like the UK will have to do…..

      1. Yes. I’m not sure what happened in Norway and Sweden and Iceland where they created an equivalent of Civil Partnerships before they legalised Same Sex Marriage. (e.g. whether the civil partnership stip exists. If not then you would (presumably) have to convert existing CPs into marriages.
        Of course it is more of an issue in France in that, much more so than in the UK, there are material differences between a marriage and a PACS

  17. Eddy - from 2007 15 Jun 2011, 12:30pm

    293 votes against, and 222 vote for. So, it’s only a matter of time. And not a long period of time at that, I suspect.

    1. Jock S. Trap 15 Jun 2011, 3:49pm

      Lets hope so.

  18. Jock S. Trap 15 Jun 2011, 3:33pm

    So how many more years of unequal lives for Equal Taxpayers?

    1. Hmmmm . . . in which country?

      1. Jock S. Trap 16 Jun 2011, 9:21am

        Most I reckon..

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