I totally agree.
And can we please do the same with the catholic, anglican and all other bigoted religious groups too.
Fair enough Christine re the other faiths you mentioned but so far in London the majority of sh1t stirring has been co-ordinated by mosques in the east end. I haven’t seen poisonous stickers dotted around lamp posts by other faiths- so far anyway.
I think the activities of so called christian street preachers are far more prevalent and a menace to all LGBT people
Street preachers you can generally walk away from, thats the difference.
Exactly Jock. A street preacher normally rants on his and the Bibles behalf, those stickers were meant to speak for a whole community- in this case the Muslim community and against the gay community.
I would be interested in seeing how a Christian street preacher would get on preaching outside Whitechapel Tube during it’s markets busiest time of the day.
The thing with street preachers is that the majority of people dismiss them as cranks (stood on Oxford St outside TopShop screaming about the Bible and Jesus thru’ a megaphone), whereas there is definitely something a lot more insidious and cowardly about putting up flyers and stickers on the sly as has proven the case in Tower Hamlets.
Even though Islamofascists are known to execute gays… right.
I’ll take a christian street preacher any day… in fact I had a nice conversation with one of them a few months ago… he said that most gays would just ignore him or shout at him. but after talking to him he just sort of let some of it go, he still thought that gays are sin etc etc but he did open up
with mooslims is different, they DON’T want to open up, they don’t even preach anything… they don’t express warped beliefs, what they want is to Islamify the world and kill every single gay person of the face of the planet.
Now if this not “menacing” enough for you, I don’t know what is.
Don’t live in London or any big city and most of the homopbia that I experience is usually on the internet from mostly Christian websites…and very surprisingly on comment pages like this one from trollers who find it perfectly acceptable to abuse gays using made up names…….
That is a fair point Chrissie.
In my life I have suffered backly as a result from Christian homophobia in my young life and Muslim homophobia in later life.
By far the latter was much worse, much more threatening and abusive both mentally and physically and in Tower Hamlets.
A place I was born and bred that 30+ years later was finally forced out of for a quiet life.
Thankfully I have friends in all faiths to learn and know that not all are the same but I have to say by far the worst was my latter life experience.
I hope I or nobody else every has to go through the same.
Sadly I know of many that have gone through the same.
Many have left London, which may end up being my option if I ever go through it again.
Still, you make a very valid point.
It’s seems many in religion need to be kept aware of the law and how it stands.
Hi Jock, it is just so sickening to think that an area you called home and presumably enjoyed living in for a number of years should change (for the worse) and force you to leave. I have gay mates living in Whitechapel for quite a few years but its just in the past 4 or 5 years that a definite change is in the air and they (my friends) have been subject to physical and verbal abuse. Its easy to see why extremist parties like the BNP gain footholds in certain areas of the country- its one form of extremism trying to quell another form and its the people caught in the middle who want a quiet life that are fcuked.
My abuse was from 2005 – 2008 pushing to 4 years.
It’s kind gone from one extreme to another because if I remember correctly in the 1990′s Bethnal Green was a BNP area but I never remembered any hate.
It’s now completely to the other extreme but with people who tend to hate anything White/Black, British/French/etc, Christian/Jewish/etc male/female with extra loathing of anyone LGBTQI.
Of course I must stress that yes that is not all, many but not all.
There are many horrific experiences at the (supposed) behest of many different faith groups. We probably could all catalogue some.
What I find remarkaable is that the hatred that is currently being espoused in society is not restricted to those of faith – there is repugnant hatred of Whites, French, Jews, LGBT etc and often based on sheer ignorance.
I do think that banning homophobic preachers and speakers would be a positive step for Mosques and other religious organisations – but it is not the only step necessary to stop bigotry
That’s weird. In another thread you agreed with another poster that religion should be banned from being taught at schools.
Funny how you back track when it comes to Islamofascists. Why aren’t you calling them “mentally ill” as well like you do to white christians? Or is their belief in Allah more acceptable to you?
Funny that, You misrepresenting me – again … go back and look at the thread, you will see that I have never suggested religion should not be taught in schools – in fact I express concern that by not teaching it we are unable to understand those who have different viewpoints.
Now, you either don’t read properly, just say things because you think it makes you look good, you lie, or you are incapable to understanding a reasoned argument. Whichever it is, please stop because this misrepresentation is becoming very dull – a bit like most of your opinions.
Where have I made any comment that has singled out the ethnicity of any particular faith … sounds more like your racism there …
Also, I have not called anyone of faith mentally ill purely due to their faith – in fact I stand up and say many of faith are reasonable ..
A ban? We’ll be waiting. Muslim clerics in the east end thrive on filling the heads of their followers with bigotry and ignorance.
Yet they don’t get arrested for hate speech. In the UK the stupid hate speech laws are only directed at Anglo christians not anybody else. Mooslims are above the law.
Yet why don’t some of you demand their arrest? Where is the thought police that always comes out and arrest christian preachers for preaching anti-gay ideology? That’s because mooslims are allowed to be homophobes while others are punished.
You clearly dont watch the news in the UK at all do you Pepa … Many Muslims have been detained under house arrest for vile missives they have given and under anti terrorist legislation – so to pretend that Muslims have not been targetted for comments made is wrong
Of course there would be no ban. They’ve fobbed people off for years. Their worthless promise was broken within 2 weeks.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100094001/east-london-mosque-breaks-its-promise-on-homophobic-speakers-after-just-eight-days/ Muslims do not give up to the kuffar – it’s against their religion. Meanwhile, the islamo-fascist Hizb ut Tahrir is having YET ANOTHER annual conference within spitting distance of ELM. You remember — HuT were the group who told Tatchell 15 years ago (when he protested against them) “we know where you live, and we’re coming to kill you”. Quilliam (made up mainly of ex-hizb-ut-tahrir) has produced a document saying that the project of Hizb ut Tahrir is a continuation of the N*zi 3rd Reich. 25 years of pan-national fascism and murderous homophoba – and for 25 years nobody but Tatchell has protested against these N*zis.
Yeah..because a ban is really going to happen.
A strong and much needed letter.
Being a victim of Islamic homophobia in Tower Hamlets and knowing where it leads I welcome at last these clearly determined people who stand up and show themselves against the rising number of homophobic attacks in this area.
One thing though,
Where is Jack Gilbert, Terry Stewart, Rebecca Shaw or any from Rainbow Hamlets and Out East?
Jack Gilbert in court over these posters compared them to the n@zis against the Jews yet why are these people not taking to the forefront and standing up.
They are supposed to be their to help protect the LGBT community within Tower Hamlets but with this issue they remain forever quiet and motionless.
Weither Rainbow Hamlets and Out East like it or not thisis happening in their own back yard and I think people going through such attacks don’t see them as approachable, leaving them scared, isolated and vunerable.
It’s time for these Mosques to start teaching tolerance and acceptance, the values that they themselves wish for.
Clerics need to be visibly out there condemning the attacks on innocent people and making those attacking realise that they are in a country that doesn’t hold these dark, distructive intolerate views.
Personal opinion is one thing but such hateful, damaging behaviour is totally unacceptable.
People need to be reminded that in This country homosexuality is Not a crime.
Trouble is many think they are doing God’s work but this action is not compatable with the UK.
The government needs to be stepping up hatred laws so that these crimes are dealt with effectively and they are not just given £100, a slap on the wrist.
I sometimes get the feeling police are not acting just because of who is doing the crime but the same wouldn’t be in reverse so either hatred is a crime for all or it isn’t for some.
Treat everyone the same and stop wimpering around.
It’s time people started taking the problems facing every LGBTQI people seriously and stop treating us like second class citizens with second class standard and crime system.
While we pay taxes we should have just as much protection as the next person.
Those groups in Tower Hamlets designed to helping the LGBTQI people of the area need to wake up and seek their priorities.
Do they value the community or they wish to save face and not cause a disturbance.
If it is the latter may I suggest they seek help from those within the community who genuinely want to see a better acceptance and help within Tower Hamlets.
I thank all those who signed this letter.
It is good to see that at last people in Tower Hamlets are not just left in the lerch fending for themselves.
This letter goes someway to knowing a voice is out there.
Lets just hope somebody the other side is listening.
Has anyone contacted Jack Gilbert, Terry Steward or Rebecca Shaw directly so that Rainbow Hamlets and Out East have the opportunity to respond to this article and the letter that has been published?
Having read the letter, it raises some important points that need to be addressed by all parties who want to see those who preach hate prevented from doing so.
It worries me that there appears to be so much division within the LGBT communities over this issue and how we work together to tackle it, but i hope that people can set aside their personal differences with each other and focus on the problem that needs to be resolved.
The faith and homophobia conference that was held in Tower Hamlets on IDAHO brought a lot of people together to work on the issue, hopefully that will help us find a way forward.
It is clear that the penalty needs to be greater, the police need to investigate further, and we need to tackle this together. The hating has to stop.
This letter should have been Coming from Rainbow Hamlets and Out East.
They should have been leading this campaign.
As usual they wait for others then pan it.
No doubt they have something to say about this that somehow makes it all wrong.
Probably try to smear anyone on th elist as EDL or something.
I don’t think a tactic where you are just attacking the homophobia in Islam will work. They will say, ‘piss off, why should we change our religion for you?’ After all, this is a religion which, at least as far as ALMOST all of its adherents interpret it, is VICIOUSLY homophobic. The tactic is to attack the whole religion, from an atheist/humanistic persecpective. People like Richard Dawkins, Sam harris and Christopher Hitchens are the type I am thnking of.
I really admire Richard Dawkins but unfortunately a lot of people consider him to be as tunnel visioned as the faiths and religions he criticises. However I’d still much prefer listen to him than the Imans, archbishops, parish priests, preachers and faith healers who brainwash their highly susceptible followers.
Yes, it really annoys me the way people label Dawkins as ‘strident’ when, in fact, he seems quite measured and reasonable (reason, of course, being the issue) when engaging with religionists.
The man is a complete bigot. I’ve never heard a single reasonable argument from him. Like all bigots he relies on belittling his opponent.
Horrible horrible horrible
Regardless of the fact this ban will not happen, it is essential that the gay community takes a stand in East London. Some of the most extreme Muslims in the UK organise their activities in Tower Hamlets, and their rabid homophobia must be challenged. We have extremists out of Brick Lane at the weekends now, flashing devious smiles whilst they refuse to shake women’s hands. They are misogynistic, homophobic and illiberal, and the established left in this country has attempted to appease them for too long. The flawed logic of the ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend’ led fools to rush in with these nutjobs over the Iraq war, and many still won’t accept the true nature of the people they’re dealing with, preferring to call them racists. I am a secularist and dislike religion in all its forms. But it must also be accepted that there is a special backwardness amongst certain parts of the Muslim community, which must be given special treatment if it is to challenged and overcome.
I’ll believe East London Mosque are serious about confronting homophobia when I see it.
So far the response has been all mouth and no trousers.
Wrong. The Director of the East London Mosque has publically condemned homophobia and banned homophobic and hate-filled preachers from using either the ELM or the Islamic Centre.
it’s what they call Taqiyya – a concept whereby it is ok to lie to non believers (us kuffars/infidels)
CMYB – you’ve never heard of the Westboro Baptist Church? There are Christian street preachers with offensive sandwich boards, who stand on street saying just as bad things.
Trying to control what is said in a church or mosque is entirely different, so long as it does not stir up hatred, it comes under the heading of religious freedom.
Westboro is in the USA and has alas, some protection from the freedom of speech US Constitution First Amendment
Exactly. I was talking about the UK and London more precisely in response to Christine’s initial post.
we should all have the right to express ourselves.
The issue here is not whether people should or do have the right to express themselves but the religious right’s refusal to allow gay men and women that same right.
This is typical denialist stuff – the Westboro baptist church’s relation to mainstream Christianity and that of extremist Muslims to Islam is just not the same thing and it’s disingenuous to suggest that’s the case. Elements within Islam including states such as Iran and Saudi Arabia support its homophobia – in most nominally Christian countries significant progress is being made on gay rights. We people try and suggest there’s an equivalence between Christianity and Islam, or even that Christianity is somehow more of a threat, it just speaks of ignorance of religion, of the issues and of a despicable left-wing need to defend people of colour at all costs whilst they slag off their own to the hilt.
we’re not discussing Westboro here.. this is about islam…stick to the subject please…
Have you actually read the koran? it’s full of racist/homophobic hate stuff… for a muslim to be a muslim they must agree with the first pillar of islam ie that the koran is the undisputable word of god.. not to be altered and to be taken in it’s entire form.. there is no picking and choosing which bits you agree with…
What about the people who printed the homophobic posters? Didn’t they commit an offence too, e.g. conspiring to put them up? Have they been identified, and could a private prosecution be taken out if the police are unwilling? Or would this make things worse?
I’m puzzled why the police have not pursued the designers and printers of the stickers the lad put up – they are more culpable than the silly idiot. Did the police even consider this?
Rumour has it that the investigation is ongoing and there will be further developments … whether or not this is true I wouldnt know
A call to ban anti-gay speakers? That’s pretty much all of them then isn’t it?
They are welcome to invite homophobic speakers, no one listens to what goes on in mosques anyway. Like Matt Lucas recently said, there’s only one real God and that’s Christian God.
Another point, didn’t we ban terrorism centuries ago? That hasn’t worked has it (and that is in no way related with the Muslim community – just so we’re clear) so why would this ban work?
Matt Lucas said what?
“There’s only one real God and that’s Christian God”
Presumably in satiric character – which one, Precious Little?
Although why you’re quoting a comedian in this discussion does elude me somewhat.
Especially as he is from a Jewish family!
Getting mosques to condemn homophobia will not work .
Mosques are institutionally bigotted and don’;t feel any need to change as they believe they are spreading the word of ‘god’ or ‘allah’ (or whatever name they use for their malevolent sky fairy.)
I want the law used against these mosques.
If a mosque invites a homophobic speaker then the mosque itself is complicit in incitement to hatred and criminal charges should be pressed.
I am a believer in freedom of religion to a certain degree.
But religion is a freely chosen and voluntary belief system. Therefore freedom of religion must NEVER trump our freedom to live in safety and security.
If an imam promotes violence and hatred against gay people or women then he needs to be arrested and charged and the mosque closed.
I think I get what you mean and I think I agree but there is one part of your comments that requires a little clarity – what do you mean by “freedom of religion to a certain degree”
Well-said! Freedom of religion should end where people incite violence and hatred against those of whom they don’t approve. Sorry (not really) but I am tired of whatever faith being used to denigrate and marginalise us, not to mention inciting other bigots to violence against us.
I agree that using faith to marginalise other groups of people and to incite bigoted violence or violence of any sort should not be tolerated at all.
If these mulsims, native or foreign born, don’t like living in the UK and want to impose their ingorant beliefs on the rest of the society, then why don’t they move to the middle east? Nobody compels them to stay here and nobody invited those who emigrated here either. Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran are huge countries and have plenty of room for them and I’m sure, would welcome them with open arms.
All of the Anglican and Catholic bigots should move to Angola and Italy respectively. Akinola will welcome them and so too will Papa Ratzi Rottweiler! Solution solved!
You might have missed the point – they often do like living here, it’s just that want everyone around them to believe as they do. It’s really no different from the way Christian missionaries go to Africa, Asia and Polynesia to proselytise, or indeed the mentality of the British and European settlers in South Africa and elsewhere.
(And BTW Akinola is Nigerian.)
Excellent comments agree totally with you both.
Angola’s in Africa – its not the land of Anglicans lol
David, and if an imam promotes violence and is foreign born, he should be deported post haste. Undesirables have no place in a civilised society whey they abuse other peoples’ rights and incitement to commit criminal acts of violence against a minority of people.
But what do you do when the Iman is a UK citizen?
What I have yet to see, even after the terrorist attacks in London and elswhere (Madrid, New York further afield..) is a thorough and widespread campaign from moderate moslems to negate terrorism.
There are some seriously wealthy muslems in the UK and elswhere many of whom could have financed such a thing personally. Or, joined together to do so.
It is this which I find most disconcerting about the whole thing, and, until it changes there will always be a nagginng doubt in my mind.
If the Imam is a UK citizen, then the criminal law must be used against him.
Incitement to hatred is a crime.
Ha, like this will happen.
See it is my belief that religion is an evil, moronic cult, that divides humanity and leads to the violent suppression of many groups of people.
But, I would never EVER call for the death of someone because they were religious, I would NEVER wish to discriminate against them in the provision of goods and services, I would NEVER preach hate against individuals.
Im getting so depressed listening to religious stories in the UK, these people will not give us the same respect we show them, and the political parties just collude with religious bigots. I really dont see how things can get better.
Thing is, the Abrahamic religions thrive on having an “enemy” to wag their fingers at. That’s the whole raison d’être for their existence. Without an enemy, these religions cease to have a purpose.
How can you possibly ever win with people that can’t function without enemies?
Why specifically target east london mosque? albeit appropriate, but hate preachers are also widely regarded in many others, throughout the country, and also invited as guest speakers to our universities to assist in the radicalization of british muslims, which as far as i am aware, certain universites in london anyhow, are accepting of this homophobia/anti semitizm .
I have nothing against banning homophobic speech in mosques or around mosques but then it must also be banned from Christian churches and Jewish synagogues and Hindu temples etc cherry picking which group of people you muzzle, perhaps because they are a minority and foreign and so easy to reign in or because you just don’t like them, while ignoring the same vile rhetoric from Christians, Jews, Hindus etc is just wrong. Actually I’d like to see all faith groups subjected to the same equal rights laws as are enforced on the rest of society. I’d like to see Catholics forced to allow women Priests, to see Orthodox Jews forced to allow women into the same synagogue rooms as the men are allowed in etc etc
If I could ban any religion I would ban moral equivalency the religion I see you are a worshiper.
Obviously all religions should be allowed to practice their faith if does not conflict with the secular laws. You don’t seem to understand this distinction. All Abrahamic religions have a tradition that homosexual male sex is a sin punishable by death. None that I know of have a punishment for sexual orientation. However, actually going after gays in the streets of London or instructing people to do this is another matter. None of the Christian churches I know favor killing gays in the UK. That goes for Orthodox Jewish Congregations as well, all of the ones I know favor showing kindness and outreach towards gays.
But it also is obvious that some Muslims are religiously motivated to attack “infidels”- those they believe should be punished. They have attacked gays and Jews all over the world. Some of them are Mosque Imams.
As written by Kevin O’Neil:
A 21% increase in homophobic crime in Tower Hamlets initially sounds dramatic but becomes less so when compared with other London Boroughs. Westminster, Lambeth both 26%, Brent 29%, Islington 60%, Croydon, Sutton 62%, Enfield 75%, Havering, Kingston-upon-Thames 83% and Harrow a wapping 125%.
Of course these are self-reflexive percentages only relating this years figures with last years within Borough boundaries. What about actual numbers of reported homophobic crime? A 21% rise in Tower Hamlets has lead to a total of 81 cases in the last year, an additional 14 cases. That is less than the 88 cases in Islington in the previous year BEFORE a 60% increase to 131 cases. It equals the 82 cases in Camden achieved after a 13% reduction. It is significantly less than Westminster’s 148 cases and Lambeth’s 132.
One also has to ask what are the nature of these homophobic crimes? In Tower Hamlets the 81 incidents, 14 more than last year, will include every official report made to the Police of the appearance of the stickers. We do not know how many that was (although I imagine a Freedom of Information request should be able to obtain the data). There was talk in the gay press and online blogs and forums of up to 70 appearances of these stickers. If each of those was officially reported separately we have a very different picture of only a dozen non sticker sighting related homophobic crimes. Conversely, if none were officially reported we have the possibility of an East London gay community who really weren’t that upset by them. I suspect it would be something between these extremes. However, if the reporting of the stickers were stripped out of the statistics I think we would be congratulating Tower Hamlets on a reduction of homophobic hate crime.
You seem to want to lay some of the blame for these stickers at the feet of the East London Mosque and make demands of them which you acknowledge the say they are already doing. Whether the ELM is still harbouring homophobic, ranting, nut-jobs or not, it would appear from a more thoughtful analysis and contextualisation of your data that hardly anyone is listening to them anyway.
Your whole agenda of wanting to link homophobic hate crime specifically to an extremist Islamist campaign and to the ELM is a fallacious red herring and does a great disservice to the gay community. A look at the statistics for homophobic crime across the capital shows that there is a serious problem that needs addressing. You wish to focus on a blind alley and lead the gay community into a battle with an enemy that is about as influential as Monster Raving Loony Party candidate in a safe seat.
A number of the signatories here state they are journalists and media professionals. Why are you not investigating the real picture of homophobic hate crime across London? Why are you not looking at the increases and total numbers in Westminster, Lambeth, Islington, Camden. The homophobic crime cases in these Boroughs do not include people reporting offensive stickers. Conversely why are you not looking at the successes across London and finding out what they’re doing right; Greenwich, Bromley, Barnet, Redbridge, Barking & Dagenham, Hammersmith & Fulham and Haringey all down by over 40%.
You talk of people living in fear in Tower Hamlets. Fear does not come directly from threat, it comes from the perception of threat. Your fallacious red herring stokes a perceived threat where very little actually exists. Shame on all the signatories for instilling fear in the hearts of the gay community of Tower Hamlets and generating more misery.
One final comment. You give the increase and numbers for homophobic crime in Tower Hamlets and state that racist and religious hate crime has remained static. But you do not give a figure for it. The number of incidents there is 352.
I note however the the Met refers to “homophobic crime” and “racist and religious HATE crime”. This would seem to support the contention towards the beginning of the piece about institutional bias in tackling hate crime. But then begs the question as to why you do not make this the focus of your demands
We protest against churches when they say such bigoted things, why is it wrong to protest against the ELM?
Also while I hate these right wing christian homophobes, you cant point to a British priest or bishop that has called for the murder of gay people can you?
I fear for every LGBTQI person within Tower Hamlets.
Clearly those there to (supposedly) help you have better things to do than fight for our rights.
You keep sucking up love but please do let some people who really wish to help those people in Tower Hamlets Help…
Although I expect you’d stop anyone helping given the chance.
You should be ashamed.
Still while your yet again making excuses and statistic who cares if some else is suffering abuse.
Damn LGBTQI peasants shouldn’t be there anyway, ah Terry?!
What a disgrace.
Who are you helping?
Your too arrogant, is that intentional?
I guess so long as you can just make up reasons and excuses not to do anything you won’t.
In effect, Stuff all that live in Tower Hamlets.
I repeat though:-
Why are you there and Why do you only pretend your there to help the LGBTQI community?
Your a farse.
Your a disgrace.
I know a screen dump when i see one
I don’t. What is a screen dump?
Both my posting are here because the article has been changed some what. This was the sub heading to this article only yesterday ”
“Anti-Gay Hate Crime Up 21% in Tower Hamlets: UK Gay and Feminist Activists, Writers and Publishers Demand Investigation into Leaders of “Gay-Free Zone” Campaign; Call on East London Mosque to Stop Providing Platform for Anti-Gay Hate”
Both pieces I have put up are written by Kevin O’Neil. He attempted to comment to letter at its original site, but it was deleted.
You may not agree with it, but atleast you get to read his response here, unlike at the original site which is moderated by one of the signatories to the letter, which gave rise to this article. . ,
Your a disgrace.
I feel for every LGTBTQI person who has to deal with you and your excuses.
For anyone remotely interested in Terry Stewart or Kevin O Neill, I refer you to Andrew Gilligan’s exposure of this twerps on his Daily Telegraph blog. Stewart trivialised the sticker campaign, as an EDL hoax. He camouflages, denies, downplays Islamist hate. (Note: ‘Islamist’ not ‘muslim’. The distinction is important.)
I don’t particularly want to stop the anti-gay speakers, much as I dislike it they have a right through freedom of speech to hold those meetings, bUt what nobody else has is the HATE speakers who espouse viloence. Nobody else preaches violence like they have, and I don’ quite understand why the government hasn’t stepped in to stop it as they have with other minorities.
“Such a light penalty would be unthinkable if we were considering groups operating across UK to create Jew-free, Black-free, Muslim-free or Christian-free zones.” …on the subject of jew-free zones… http://seanrobsville.blogspot.com/2011/03/buddhist-jew-darwin-and-gay-free-zones.html
But if every day they lived with the fear that their mosque would be burned down by the following morning, they would at least pretend to be nice.
Mosques certainly have been attacked, muslim women abused and Asian businesses attacked. Also muslim graves were desecrated in High Wycombe.
It is time to stop debating, whingeing and talking around and around in circles.
It is time to declare war.
Fight hate with hate.
The Hope Not Hate campaign has not once stood up to the islamofascists. You can google their website using this google query: site:hopenothate.org.uk “gay free zone” and you will see it does not return ONE page about the GFZ issue. HNH is Searchlight, and in 25 years Searchlight has not once published a single remark about Hizb ut Tahrir, who are the most fascist party in Britain by a long way. It’s time to cover the country in signs saying “Muslim Free Zone”. UAF has only just now started producing posters saying “No to Homophobia, No to Islamophobia”. If it was not for the EDL then the UAF would not have done even that. Tatchell asked them in 2006 to stop supporting homophobic muslims, and the UAF just ignored Tatchell.
lol you arse
In response, East London Mosque spokesman Salman Farsi told the Guardian that homophobic speakers were not permitted.
“Any speaker who is believed to have said something homophobic will not be allowed to use our premises, whether that is us organising an event or someone else. As for the condemnation of homophobia, our director has gone on the record on this,” he said.
He added that the £100 fine was a “slap on the wrist” and said the mosque was doing “as much as we possibly can”.
It seems like the East London Mosque has already gone some way to meeting the demands of the signatories to this statement. Did any of the signatories meet with the ELM Director or representatives to check this out before publishing their demands? Also does vile homophobic rhetoric effect the vast majority of musims. Homophobic Christian evangelist loonies are mostly ignored and marginalised.
“It seems like the East London Mosque has already gone some way to meeting the demands of the signatories to this statement.”
Beware of taqiyya. The East London Mosque has a reputation for being economical with the truth: http://seanrobsville.blogspot.com/2011/06/east-london-mosque-identified-as.html
Taqiyya is for Islamist fanatics. You shouldn’t really tar everyone with the same brush. I have been to the East London Mosque (actually, next door at the Islamic Centre) on several occasions as an out gay man. I raised the problem of homophobia and got a friendly but wearied reception. Wearied because they are sick to death of stating over and over again that they condemn homophobia and will not allow hate preachers to use the East London Mosque. The men and women there came across to me as genuine and down to earth. The notion that they are being disingenuous, sly and underhand to me smacks of the tired old racist stereotype of the untrustworthy, unreliable Arab or the double-dealing, swindling Jew.
The other misleading impression is that muslim women are oppressed and forced to wear modest clothing. All the women at this meeting wore hijabs and they were leading much of the discussion and making the running in taking the lead about future events.
They can say they don’t allow hate preachers in ELM. But Hizb ut Tahrir was having its annual islamo-fascist conferences in The Troxy in Limehouse, just up the road. The Troxy was only forced to close its doors as a venue for hate speech when the EDL threated a demo outside an islamic conference there filled with anti-semitic hate preachers. The murderously homophobic Zakir Naik was invited by British muslims to address rallies in 3 football stadiums – again EDL threatened to demo against each of his rallies, and he was banned from the country. Focusing on one venue like ELM is not the point – east London has already been de-gayed.
Agreed, i’ll believe their phoney sentiment of condemnation of homophobia when they put it into practice.
Paul, David answered your question regarding UK born muslims. In addition to that, I’d encourage them to leave anyway and go to any of the islamic countries where they will find many sympathisers and gay bashers. If they want to persist spewing this venom, then they can’t object if we fire back with similar language and that goes for any religious cult.
What even Humanists?
Why doesn’t it suprise me that this opinionated left-wing rag has never once mentioned Douglas Murray, a right-wing gay social commentator and director for the Centre for Social Cohesion?
It’s about time people started listening to his views on radical Islam and maybe we might get somewhere. Watch this, it’s quite long, but well worth listening to and taking notice:
Oh yes an aspiring, admirable gay role model at last.
Because he talks a lot of (not all) nonsense. Come on now, who is more likely to impose socially conservative laws on this country; the labour party who gave us leo abse and Roy Jenkins, or the Tories who gave us edward leigh and nadine dorries.
The issue the right wing has with conservative muslims, is that they justify their beliefs not by the bible but by the koran.
Remember this is Douglas “iraq war was a good idea” Murray
Leo Abse did not start the Campaign For Homosexual Equality. Abse picked up a Bill that was already started by a Tory. The Labour Party have shown themselves to be opportunists – they would give us gay partnerships AND protect those who would kill us.
terry…no, not the Humanists.
“I don’t think a tactic where you are just attacking the homophobia in Islam will work. They will say, ‘piss off, why should we change our religion for you?’ After all, this is a religion which, at least as far as ALMOST all of its adherents interpret it, is VICIOUSLY homophobic. The tactic is to attack the whole religion, from an atheist/humanistic persecpective. People like Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens are the type I am thinking of.”
Quite right! It’s high time that the LGBT community recognised that its main allies are to be found in the Humanist movement.
The GHA has been around for what, 20 years? How has that stopped the spread of islam? The main ally for gay people and jews and ex-muslims is the English Defence League. No-one else is standing up against the islamisation of our country. 75% of the gay people in Tower Hamlets have left the borough in the last 20 years. In 1991 when most people in Tower Hamlets were white and working class, it was the place outside central London with the most gay bars (more than Earls Court). Now they have almost all gone.
I think you will find almost all gay bars outside the centre, (and many inside), have also gone. That isn’t entirely due to the population, but the simple change in gay lifestyles and the rise of the Internet.
Part of the change in gay lifestyles has a reality that a significant proportion of gay people do not socialise in gay bars (at least for some of the time) in the same way as they did maybe 10 years ago. There is a much greater readiness for gay people to integrate into mainstream bars etc, whereas in the past many preferred (for many reasons) to socialise mainly in gay bars.
There has also been a reduction in the number of gay bars outside the centre due to simple economics.
Gay people are allowed to integrate in gay bars, as long as they don’t show their visibility by affection .
apologies that should read straight bars.
That is my experience in some straight bars, but not in others – I have been more than comfortable and had no problems snogging ex partners in some straight bars
Stu: “I have been more than comfortable and had no problems snogging ex partners in some straight bars”
Well, that is, until his current boyfriend showed up… ;)
Lol @ Spanner
No, unfortunately (or fortunately depending on the reasonaing!) I am a single boy currently
So the plan is to ban homophobic Imams from Mosques? That’ll be all of them then, and 99.9% of the congregation too. Christians don’t tend to murder people they disagree with, Muslims do.
Where is your proof that most Imams and their congregations are homophobic?
I would also like to see evidence for those comments
and would also point out that some Christians have been known to murder ….
“The GHA has been around for what, 20 years? How has that stopped the spread of islam?”
If GHA is a reference to the Gay & Lesbian Humanist Association (GALHA), this was founded in 1979 so has been around for over thirty years.
Of course neither GALHA nor the worldwide Humanist movement, of which it is a part, can stop the spread of Islam, but it can warn of the dangers it presents and lend its staunch support to LGBT rights.
If GFZ and other contributors click on my name, they can find our more.
Muslim-baiting has now replaced jew-baiting it would seem. I despise terrorism in all its forms including the arson attacks on mosques, desecration of muslim graves, and threats against muslim businesses and individuals that have happened recently in different parts of Britain and Europe. In Britain there is no doubt in my mind that the English Defence League has either been involved in all of this or has helped to spur others on to commit these abusive and vile acts. The overwhelming majority of muslims are peace-loving and get on well with their neighbours and communities. GFZ is wrong. Muslims are a tiny minority and the country is not being Islamised nor is Sharia law ever going to be promoted. Also, if its true that 75% of LGBT people have left Tower Hamlets in the past 20 years why blame that on muslims? Earls Court is no longer gay because things have naturally moved on. Also the macho white working class culture in the East End has been (still is?) notorious for queer-bashing.
this lot are a bunch of Islamophobes who use any excuse in an article to whip up a racist storm.
My heart goes out to any gay muslim who comes onto these boards – what comfort is it to them that ‘the gay community’ is as hate fuelled against them as are the right wing reactionaries whipping up a storm inside their own faith communities?
My applause was for Staircase2
No there isn’t you just hate people sticking up for themselves.
It clearly threatens you and you then act like a child trying to silence anybody making a stand.
Stop throwing unwarranted accusations and furthermore stop trying to silence people esp because of homophobia.
Maybe if you put the effect into stopping homophobia…
@Jock S Trap
Absolutely lets stop homophobia
Lets not have collateral damage en route – by saying gay Muslims are expendable and making them unwelcome
I’ve been to many mosques in london and they don’t preach hate or ignorance. They preach their religion.
Yes some places of worship have clerics, priests, preachers who are conservative, literal and misleading but on the whole. As in the mass majority its moderate.
Stickers are all around london. If you saw one, edit it, make fun of it, correct it, rip it off-quit complaining about it.
You could have got 2 of your friends and spent an afternoon altering them. Where is our action outside of surmising other groups and calling into question a counter argument.
And to note when Pope John was made pope 1.2m people left the catholic church because he was polish.
Oh right so to you discrimination is acceptable… Interesting.
Where do you get that idea?
I was making the point about the Catholic Church because types of discrimination are everywhere and unless we are broad in our understanding our specific argument which is valid may not be as effective as it could be.
It started with ‘Jew Free Zones’ and hate-fuelled speeches in 1930′s Germany, and because people took to lax attitude you advise, it led to lynchings and Kristallnacht and death camps.
We will call it out and oppose it and expose it wherever we see it.
You are right of course, ‘many mosques’ don’t preach hatred.
I agree with calling it out, exposing it and opposing it.
I am weary of reactions to these types of stories. Sometimes i feel the need to state the obvious.
Places of worship are not places of hate.
(children do not kill but there are children who have killed)
Hey-ho – it seems that Andrew Gilligan has been lying about the goings on at the East London Mosque recently:
links to recently emerging footage of youths ‘patroling’ East London and trying to enforce sharia law.. intimidating locals.
Links to article by Gregory M. Davis
author, Religion of Peace? Islam’s War Against the World
Everything you want to know about islam but were afraid to ask…