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Scottish church may break away over gay ministers

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  1. Depressing. Haven’t they read the debunking of the “clobber texts”?

    And I trust they will not be wearing clothing of mixed fibres, or eating shellfish, etc., which are also forbidden in the Bible.

    If there are any non-homophobes in the Aberdeen Church, they can always run away to join the Unitarians up the road (LGBT-inclusive since 1970).

    1. Well, yes. If the “Bible seems to have been marginalised,” they have far more than mere homosexuality to whine about. Why are we the single item on their list?

      1. We are on their list because they are scared. We are the last hope of them using power over others, to shame them into following them. Divorce, drinking , living in sin, child born out of wedlock , now no longer have the power that it once had for them . Homosexulity is their last card they have , and they aint letting it go easy. Otherwise without it , what else do they have.

        1. These anti-gay homophobes who feel they are being bullied and persecuted for their anti-gay views don’t seem to be feeloing so pressured by homosexuals that they are resorting to committing suicide, unlike the reverse situation for gays being bullied by homophobes where suicides caused by the relentless anti-gay condemnation and hostility are all too common.

  2. Oh well. So there are 400 bigoted pigs who can’t accept that some people are gay, and there’s nothing wrong with it.

  3. Jock S. Trap 9 Jun 2011, 12:08pm

    Good Riddance to the bigots.
    Nothing like showing up who they are.

  4. “Our decision comes from a view shared by most Christians”

    Don’t they mean bigots? I mean, I’d have more respect for them if they called a spade a spade.

    1. Oer missus 9 Jun 2011, 1:21pm

      “I think you’re horrible and everyone else think so too!” – classic playground bullying from the so called ‘orthodox’ (new word for conservative) believers, seeking authority for their bullying tactics.

    2. If it is a view shared by most christians then why is it this wee small group leaving the bigger church and not most christians leaving. I hate sore losers.

    3. Jock S. Trap 9 Jun 2011, 2:47pm

      Yeah plus these bigotted people are actually proud of themselves.

  5. Deuteronomy 22:10 Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together.

    I’m sure we’ll all agree, the bible has many useful things to teach us in the 21st century :-P

    1. Oer missus 9 Jun 2011, 1:23pm

      I thought it was ‘plough’. Yes very useful indeed.

  6. I love it how they lie that homophobia is linked to integrity – I bet they wouldn’t dare tell anyone who has experienced homophobia that

  7. Dan Filson 9 Jun 2011, 12:27pm

    Practical advice actually – if you do so plough, you will go around in circles.

    The separation off from churches of their homophobic and sexist elements is to the good. On the one hand there will be the obsessives, on the other hand the remaining Christians. It seems to me that the reported words of Christ get little look in what with all this Leviticus stuff.

  8. Mr Ripley's Asscrack 9 Jun 2011, 12:39pm

    As I’m Scottish, I feel compelled to respond that there are more than 400 “bigoted pigs” in NE Scotchland… the place is hoaching with them… perhaps a biblical cull is needed. God if you can be bothered, there’s a good imagined being.

  9. Scottish church may break away over gay ministers

    piss off then .

    1. Oer missus 9 Jun 2011, 1:38pm

      The Kit-Kat clique

  10. Good, diminishes their power. I hope we see the same thing happen to the state cult of England.

    1. Oer missus 9 Jun 2011, 1:39pm

      It’s only a cult if it has a charismatic leader

  11. ‘most Christians’?

    I agree with Will and most other posters here.
    As a gay Christian who delights in pointing out that the Old Testament has remarkably little to do with Christianity and less to do with modern life, I can’t agree that ‘most’ Christians are homophobic. I would however agree that most ‘Christians’ are homophobic, in particular those ‘Christians’ who can’t read, don’t understand logical thought and don’t agree that God gave us a brain and we should use it. I’d also lump in those ‘Christians’ who are poorly educated and have been brain-washed by a bigoted few.
    At the end of the day, if you believe that God is Love, then any form of hatred is wrong. Jesus also didn’t say one word about homosexuality, that was all the work of a few Jewish elders who wrote Deuteronomy, Numbers and Leviticus, and of course, St Paul, the misogynistic closet homosexual! (I don’t know any of those in today’s society… or do I? )

    Loving you

    1. Galadriel1010 9 Jun 2011, 4:17pm

      Amen to that.

      1. I believe that it was the Presbyterians who first insisted upon an “educated clergy.” Apparently, it doesn’t trickle down. Or it’s just not working.

        1. concerned resident of E3 9 Jun 2011, 9:23pm

          on the contrary, this careful consideration and stepwise approach to the issue shows to me that the CofS is making enormous efforts to understand and accommodate the modern world. Something that you couldn’t really say for the puerile Anglican or Catholic “debates”

          1. Point taken.

  12. terry-ann 9 Jun 2011, 1:38pm

    the church of scotland did not vote to accept gay and lesbian ministers, it passed a deliverance resolving to explore further the issue.

    1. Oer missus 9 Jun 2011, 1:41pm

      It lifted the existing 2 year ban

      1. Tim Hopkins 9 Jun 2011, 2:43pm

        To be specific, the General Assembly:

        – Confirmed that there is no ban on celibate L&G ministers

        – Lifted the two year ban on ministers, who were ordained before May 2009 and are in same-sex relationships, being reappointed to different posts

        – Kept in place the ban on training and ordaining new ministers who are in same-sex relationships, while a two year study is made of how in practice the ban might be lifted – for example would people be required to be in a civil partnership before they could be appointed as a minister

        1. Do you mean ministers in CPs and who are still allowed to have gay sex with their CP partner?. The having gay sex bit is pretty important condition …doesn’t the CofE approve/tolerate CPs as long as you don’t have sex. I’d be very, very impressed if the Kirk are approving the gay sex part with your CP partner,, that would be almost akin to saying it’s not sinful anymore to havinh gay sex??

          1. concerned resident of E3 9 Jun 2011, 9:20pm

            AFAIK the decision in the CofS recognises that ministers in gay relationshps will be having sex. That makes it quite distinct from the idiotic and backward position of the Church of England.

  13. The Church summarised.

    Paedophilia – good
    Homosexuality – bad

    1. Galadriel1010 9 Jun 2011, 4:19pm

      Wrong church. There’s quite a lot of them, I see how you could make the mistake, but try to research the subject before you open your mouth, yeah?

      1. The fact that you think paedophillic clergy exist only in the Catholic church show just how demented you are.

        1. concerned resident of E3 9 Jun 2011, 9:15pm

          while I don’t discount the possibility of a paedophile cofS minister, or a paedophile atheist teacher for that matter, there has not as yet been a widespread scandal of paedophile in the Church of Scotland where most ministers are married and are elected by local congregations rather than imposed on them by distant bishops. That might seem an irrelevant matter but ministers are elected as much for their characters and standing as their ability to preach a sermon.

  14. terry-ann 9 Jun 2011, 1:51pm

    the ban has not been lifted, the deliverance that was passed was as follows: Resolve to consider further the lifting of the moratorium on the acceptance for training and ordination of
    persons in a same-sex relationship, and to that end instruct the Theological Commission to prepare a report
    for the General Assembly of 2013 containing:

    1. That is only part of the ruling which has to do with ordaining ministers, it also decreed that gay clergy ordained before 2009 be allowed to stay in the church.

      So the ban on them being in the church has been lifted but there is a moratorium on new ordinations while discussions continue till 2013.

  15. Fantastic news,

    I celebrate anything that decreases the toxic influence of organised religion.

    1. Jock S. Trap 9 Jun 2011, 2:49pm

      Trouble is they’ll just all move to an other religion that supports their bigotted views…. Sadly.
      If only religions refused new admissions.

  16. I saw this on dennis cooper’s blog. Funniest version of christ’s passion I’ve ever seen.

  17. Ezekiel 23:19-20 “Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after their genitals as large as those of donkeys, and their seminal emission was as strong as that of stallions.”

    Ah yes because the Bible is just such a excellent place to obtain our moral guidance from.

    1. Galadriel1010 9 Jun 2011, 4:21pm

      Seriously, it’s pretty much porn for the first half dozen books. When you look at what was going on you realise that it’s no wonder God laid down the law.

      1. It’s fiction. Get a grip.

  18. concerned resident of E3 9 Jun 2011, 7:29pm

    my best friend from high school is the minister who led the protests against Scott Rennie. He is still a friend and is linked to me on facebook. He has always known I am gay and has never once let that influence he way we have interacted. So I believe him when he says he is personally not someone who bears any ill will to gay people.

    However, the issue of gay ministers has become the battle line within the church between those who believe in a more literal interpretation of scripture and those who believe the church must reflect and understand the world we live in as well as following scripture.

    A generation ago the issues were women ministers and the generation before that divorced ministers. In every case there has been a trenchant debate, threats of a split and finally an uneasy accomodation. I do not expect this issue, gay ministers, to be any different no matter how angry some people have said they are.

    1. concerned resident of E3 9 Jun 2011, 7:30pm

      I have made my views abundantly clear to my friend and he to me and we have had heated words over this, finally agreeing to disagree. But I will not have him or all of the people on his side tarnished with a broad brush accusation that they are in some way viscious homophobes. Most of them, actually, are not.

  19. See heres what I have never understood as about religious people, the fact that they believe that taking every line in a book literally means you are following the truth it expounds.

    They ignore context, wider meaning, contradictions, metaphor and allegory.
    Imagine if this approach was used in relation to other great books. For example the message of animal farm if taken literally is: 1) Pigs are evil, 2) running a farm is a lot more dangerous than it appears. Rather than the much more indepth and thoughtful understanding of the book that highlights it as a message against totalitarianism.
    If i thought the bible contained the truth of god, I would not disrespect the book so much by believing it teachings were easily understandable and solely literal.

  20. Brian Souter – the homophobic Scottish business man who ran the hateful Keep The Clause Campaign has been knighted in today’s birthday honours. Please sign the petition to register your disgust at this.

    1. johnny33308 11 Jun 2011, 7:20pm

      done and happily so

  21. Let them break away. They will not be missed. No one’s fault they are still living in the 16th Century.

  22. johnny33308 11 Jun 2011, 7:12pm

    Any so-called CHURCH that promotes bigotry as a ‘family’ value has none-obviously! Anyone self-identified as ‘Christian’ who promotes ANYTHING except love is NOT what they ‘claim’ to be in the least. They will not enjoy Hell…..

  23. Gay Americans are bing tricked by the Christians who have tricked them into attacking people who are not trying to stop gay marriage. Yet the Christians are paying millions to Christian hate groups to stop gay marriage and the “gay agenda”. Little do the American gays know they are being tricked into using their money and work to attack the wrong targets while the Christians get ready to stop the gays dead in their tracks. Somebody please wake the gays us in America and look and see that the real people who are attacking you are the Christians, you have seen the proof where the Catholic, Mormon and Evangelical Churches are working together to stop gay marriage and the gays.

  24. Sean Robsville 12 Jun 2011, 10:42pm

    Looking for a religion? Shop around a bit. The various flavors of Christianity are no longer the only products in the Spiritual Supermarket.

    Obviously the Religion of Peace™ should carry a health warning for gays and lesbians, but why not give Buddhism a try?

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