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Protestant pastor vows to fight against gay sauna in Londonderry

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  1. Why can’t it be a sauna for everyone instead of limited to gay people?

    1. because it’s for gay guys. I’m sure straight guys can go in there and join in if they want to, but then they wouldn’t be straight, would they?

      1. I must be missing something here (and I’m gay). I thought a sauna was a just a steam room to relax in.

        1. ‘Fraid not. A gay sauna is a place where gay men have sex.

          1. Thanks for letting me know. Surely there are other places for that though. If I went to a sauna it wouldn’t be to have sex. Oh well – I learn something new everyday.

          2. Jeez will someone just buy Jim a gay sauna membership just so he can find out what goes on at them. No one can be that naive?

          3. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 1:01pm

            Not soley though.
            Plenty do go just to have a good sauna, steam and relax.
            Mind you it’s the same in straight saunas although Gay saunas can be slightly more sexual.

        2. Mumbo Jumbo 8 Jun 2011, 1:42pm

          And straight men go to massage parlours for a massage :-)

    2. Because straight guys have a tendency to get wierded out thinking gay guys are checking them out and eyeing up their willy. It’s to save the blessed ones wee feelings of insecurity.

    3. can disabled man use this sauna?

      1. I can’t see any business getting planning permission without disabled access but you would be best to contact them through their website if you have specific questions.

  2. Maybe someone should fight and protest against the baptist church from being able to brainwash its followers with bigoted hate.

  3. I think that churches and the hateful bile that tends to spew from them are a “carbuncle”. I deal with it by NOT GOING. Does common sense not compute? Or is it more proof that the insistence on believing in a bronze age war god is evidence of a deficient mind. Don’t like it? Don’t go. Don’t like gay sex? Don’t have gay sex. Honestly, this pastor sounds like a hysterical knicker-sniffer who is terrified that everyone is having more fun than him.

    1. Love it Valksy! O couldn’t understand the Mary Whitehouse approach to stuff she didn’t like on tv either.
      As the law of the land states that there can be no discrimination against gay folk, on what grounds does this Baptist Minister base his protest on?

  4. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 12:19pm

    Unless he planning to frequent this place I don’t see what it has to do with him.
    Unless of course he feels threatened by it because he has ‘those feelings’.

    Clearly, I think it’s more a case of not trusting his own urges.

  5. Usually these guys are the first to join the queue and frequent saunas, its inevitable. Like Iris Robinson screaming about family values. All too painfully predictable.

    1. Mumbo Jumbo 8 Jun 2011, 1:45pm

      Indeed. That’s his problem. Frustration. He SO wants to go. But he can’t. So he condemns it.

  6. Rob London 8 Jun 2011, 12:53pm

    Just a reminder to those in Londonderry…IF ANYONE MAKES A HOMOPHOBIC COMMENT, HAVE THEM ARRESTED!

    It is illegal in the UK to express homophobia.

    Even a negative word can be considered illegal if the person to whom it was directed finds it offensive!


    1. Ooer missus 8 Jun 2011, 3:07pm

      I think you’re mistaken on that.

    2. Ooer missus 8 Jun 2011, 3:19pm

      In fact there is less protection from homophobia than from anti-religious or racially motivated incidents:

      The law on hate crime

      Section 146 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 came into effect in April 2005, empowering courts to impose tougher sentences for offences motivated or aggravated by the victim’s sexual orientation in England and Wales.

      However, in the eyes of the law different types of hate crime are viewed differently. For example, perpetrators of racially and religiously motivated hate crimes can be charged by the police with specific offences such as racially or religiously aggravated harassment or assault.

      Perpetrators of homophobic hate crimes meanwhile cannot be charged with a specific offence of homophobically motivated harassment for example. Instead perpetrators of homophobic hate crimes would be charged with existing offences, such as assault, and the homophobic motivation would be taken into account during sentencing.

    3. Spanner1960 10 Jun 2011, 1:07am

      Obnoxious faggot. :)

  7. @CMYB

    Thanks for that. Respectfully, not all gays would be interested in going to saunas for sex.

    1. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 1:02pm

      Indeed, Jim!

    2. Yes, indeed. It seems that less than half of all out gay men would seek sex in gay saunas. But most of us, I hope, don’t wish to deny other people their relaxation and enjoyment and are appalled at the actions of church ministers who think they have a mission to do just that.

      1. Its a difficult one. One of my friends met his boyf through having sex with him at a sauna. I’m a bit old-fashioned myself and prefer to date first but I’m not sure we should be moralising on what others want to do with their lives.

        1. As someone who has regularly had sex in saunas in the past, I see no sense in shame in that and met an ex at a sauna …
          Equally, I recognise that some guys do not go to the sauna for sex …
          This church leader is outdated, irrelevant and ignorant – the irrelevant point being the most significant to me

    3. @Jim
      You brightened up my day.
      Once upon a time, you couldn’t be interested in gay rights without knowing about saunas because so much police and local council time was wasted on pointless persecution of people looking for anonymous hookups in saunas, dark rooms, cottaging and the rest. I remember as a fifteen-year-old lesbian going to meetings in support of friends who’d been entrapped by police – I didn’t really know what cottaging was (I’d never seen a cottage on Hampstead Heath!) and if I had known I’d have been too embarrassed to look my friends in the eye!
      And once upon a time, when guys came out, there were a lot of venues based around sex and fewer alternatives.
      We still have a sauna culture for guys who want it, but now we also have LGBT arts festivals and family picnics for same-sex parents and their kids, and online there’s everything from Grindr to PinkNews.
      However you want to live your life and find love, there’s room for you now. This, to me, is a beautiful thing.

      1. Thanks atalanta :) x

        I’m certainly happy for there to be a gay sauna. I’m just glad to know in advance that some customers would have sex there too. I’d just mind my own business if it happened while I was in there. Having said that I may go in with my partner – that would be fun :)

        1. Your innocence is very sweet. Are you serious you didn’t know guys have sex in gay saunas?

          1. Hes probably Catholic…..and gay…

  8. douglas in canada 8 Jun 2011, 2:06pm

    So, if we collect 400 names on a petition, can we close his church?

    These people are just so simple in a bad way. I like the suggestion that if you don’t like it, don’t go in.

  9. douglas in canada 8 Jun 2011, 2:11pm

    I’d also like to see what else these christian groups are targeting. Are they going after divorcees and drunks and druggies and careless drivers and abusive family members? If they were, I might see it as an effort to make society a better place.

    But if they are targeting one population group only, they are bigots and need to be stopped. It would also be proof that they don’t really care about making society better, especially if they don’t feed the hungry or offer shelter to the homeless.

    1. Douglas,

      For info they are not targeting anyone else, they are still sore that they lost the fight to maintain criminalisation of us having sex in private. They don’t want us to have sex at all and will fight tooth and nail at anything which seems to normalise it (in their view).

      He was on the radio this morning with all the usual vacuous arguments from bible quotations to the one person he could find who had contracted HIV in a Sauna. I have to say that if they were having unprotected sex then it is difficult to blame the sauna as they could have contracted it anywhere where they had unprotected sex, but of course logic has no truck with these nutjobs.

      For once in this debate in Northern Ireland he got a bit of a drubbing from most of the public, maybe times are changing here too lol.

  10. TheSpanner 8 Jun 2011, 2:36pm

    I find the idea pretty gross and above all else, desperate, but each to his own.

    1. You may find it gross and desperate Spanner, and you are entitled to your view, but many find it fun, social, relaxing and enjoyable. I think your opinion says more about your views on sex, but as you say each to their own.

      1. TheSpanner 8 Jun 2011, 3:00pm

        Seems I’ve hit a nerve. Some of us can get our kicks in other, more enticing and probably safer ways and means. But then, I’m probably coming from a different generation entirely.

        1. Thank God your breed is dying out

          1. TheSpanner 8 Jun 2011, 3:40pm

            Oh I think yours will first. I’m not even in my twenties and while I’m not trying to speak for everyone in my age bracket, we don’t live in the type of society were gays are confined to dark rooms, saunas and public toilets to find sex. Unless you’re a closeted married man in your 40’s it just isn’t necessary, there are safer ways.

            By all means, get your kicks however you like, I don’t care. You’re perfectly entitled to it, just as I am perfectly entitled to criticise.

          2. Go to bed little boy. Mummy has a nursery rhyme to read to you. As if there aren’t people of all generations in saunas.

          3. @thespanner I’m only 18 and I can see the attraction of sauna’s so don’t think you can talk for an entire generation. Just because you don’t want to go to them doesn’t mean you can criticize other people going to it.

        2. No Spanner no nerve, just commenting on the fact that your opinion is not the same as others, there is no problem with that. Characterising someone’s behaviour as gross and desperate however makes you sound quite like the pastor in the report – judgemental. My experience of working and living in an area where there are lots of saunas, and darkrooms, is that they are used by people of all ages so I fail to see how it is a generational thing. Maybe you are not familiar with them. BTW safe sex is safe sex wherever it is carried out, it is just an arrogance to suggest that the location you practice yours in is safer than someone else’s.

          1. @Hamish It’s a shame you couldn’t read my comment a little more thoroughly, you might then see that I explicitly stated that I’m not speaking on behalf of our generation.

            Also, I can criticise people for going as much as I want, just like you can go as much as you want. We live in a free society. Get used to criticism.

      2. Spanner1960 10 Jun 2011, 1:08am

        Er, just in case anyone thinks this is me, it’s not.
        I have the little avatar icon thingy, see?

    2. Ian Bower 8 Jun 2011, 3:16pm

      I wouldn’t mind going for a sauna (without sex) and knowing others were having sex. After all, they are enjoying themselves. It’s just not a problem.

    3. martyn notman 8 Jun 2011, 4:00pm

      yes not my cup of tea either…but in smaller towns and regional cities its often the only place available. We dont all live in Brighton, London or Manchester….Always seemed very unhygienic to me though!

    4. I wouldn’t have worded it so strongly, but I do agree with you. Glad I’m not the only one from “our” generation that thinks so!

      1. Im a very sexual person but I am against saunas because I think they are outdated and basically vile.

        1. That’s fine James, but surely you mean that you don’t wish to go to them because it’s not your cup of tea or are you saying that you want to close them down because you think they are vile. If the latter there is a nice methodist cult in Derry you should join – they don’t believe in freedom of choice either. When you say you think they are outdated and vile is that based on experience of various saunas or just an uninformed prejudice?

        2. Paddyswurds 8 Jun 2011, 11:03pm

          ……now there Is a surprise……

          1. LOL! Of course I believe in freedom of choice and I think that brothel’s should be legalised for straight people.

        3. There are some great saunas which are very well run, very pleasantly designed and very hygienic – including some in Germany and a few of the newer ones in the UK. That said, I do concede there are some vile ones too

    5. I agree with TheSpanner actually
      Plus what about the people who visit with knowing and get hit on?

      1. Usually when you arrive you are asked if you have been before and if you are aware of the nature of the establishment and if not given a tour and explanation etc …

        Usually guys who make an approach (such as in a bar or on the net etc) in a sauna when told the other person is not interested are happy to leave it there … its quite easy to be polite and say – “No, not interested, sorry”

  11. as full planning permission has been granted, what does this bigot think he can achieve? personal notoriety? perhaps he just needs to be the center of attraction. ignore him and he will go away. unless of course we can have him arrested for homophobic remarks, now that bwould be nice!

    1. Hopefully if the anti discrimination legislation applies to NI (which I fear it may not) then he could be so he would have to tread carefully!

      1. I think the disability discrimination act applies across all the UK – but I am prepared to be corrected

  12. The Pastor clearly has nothing else to worry about, sad twat!

  13. Ooer missus 8 Jun 2011, 4:08pm

    Steamed pasta/pastor, lol. OK weak joke.

    1. Yes, it IS a terrible weak joke – and I wish I’d thought of it first.

  14. The Pastor should go there to unstress and ‘get real’ May find a new calling such as Phallic worship! lol

    1. Think you might be onto something. Half these people need to be brought out….closet queens!

  15. “Expansion”? business must have boomed! plus this “protest”ant minister stated things advertised weren’t on the application… No! but they would have been on the plans! serve him right if some one submits an application for a statue across from his church and because he failed to read the plans finds out it’s a “finger!”

  16. I do not support sex shops of any kind, but the question is whether this pastor would be such a boiler if it was a heterosexual strip joint? All he is doing is giving free press to the sauna/sex shop. People need to mind their business, so as long as there is no crime involved. The business, as it appears, is an indoor setting. Therefore you can’t see what’s going on inside. So there is no need for protest. If this pastor was wise, he’d have waited and see how things go and that would then give him credibility, but he has nothing to go by other than his personal bias.

  17. The landscape is dotted with nutjob churches populated with loonies like this guy which I, like lots of other agnostics, atheists and religious liberals would not be sorry to see close. But we don’t try to force them to do so because we believe in freedom and pluralism. Which tells you everything you need to know about people like the pastor.

  18. gay saunas are outdated, unnecessary and give a bad reputation to gay men. if we want to shake of the stereotype of gay men being sex mad pervs then saunas need to be closed down.
    In brighton there is one on the main road in the town center, its maks me cringe every time i walk past it. im not an old prude, im 19 and out to all my friends and family, the most scary thing for me about coming out was being associated with things like saunas.
    A straight sauna would have no business becuase most straight people would be highly embarrassed being seen walking into or out of it. yet men enter/exit the sauna in Brighton in front of a big main road and lots of people without batting an eye, its shameful!

    1. Spanner1960 10 Jun 2011, 1:12am

      I totally agree. Everyone seems to complain that we shouldn’t be treated like the stereotypes that are portrayed of us, yet many still continue to follow these sordid exercises.
      If you want a shag, get a room.

      1. Thats what they are doing, the room is called a sauna !!!

        1. Or a private room in the sauna

    2. Yes Yes Yes! the whole concept of gay sex saunas is creepy and dirty, having them in public places like the ones in Brighton is simply wrong. no one wants to walk past a building that has a main purpose for men to have orgies in. i honestly think in the next 30 years places like this will die out along with the stereotype of all gay men being sluts.

      1. Yeah, because dogging has died out – not. The problem is not saunas it is the hypocritical attitude of certain people. Straight people have saunas, swingers clubs and dogging sites and no one bats an eyelid (and they have been around a long time with no sign of them dying out) but gay men do the same and it is suddenly dirty and creepy. Chris you have been infected with the church hypocrisy, and I am not going to conform to some moral stereotype just to please some rampant babtist homophobe.

        1. Firstly, straight swingers groups do exist and yes there are straight dogging sites BUT absolutely nothing in comparison to the scale and size and openness of gay saunas/dogging. considering the gay population make up at a max 5% of the overall population, the amount of gay dogging sites far outnumber straight ones. secondly if straight saunas do exist then they are very well hidden an not as public as gay saunas (like someone mentioned the gay sauna in Brighton)
          I’m not religious in the slightest and hate the way religion suppresses homosexuality. but what me and many others are saying has nothing to do with that.
          If a story was posted on here with the tittle ‘protests against gay sauna’ you would all scream homophobia, when really people being against saunas isn’t homophobic, its common decency.
          im not a prude in the slightest, i just think that some gay mens open, shameless, in your face attitude to casual sex drives gay stereotypes.

          1. Why shouldn’t we be open and casual about sex. Everyone does it everyone loves it. Don’t get me wrong I think we should get rid of this stereotype of gays being slags but that doesn’t mean people in the LGBT community can’t be slags theres plenty of straight people who are slags and sleep around. We can do what we want its other people who stereotype us.

      2. Some gay saunas are creepy and dirty – not all …

        No one wants to walk past a building whose main purpose is for men to have orgies in …. really – I’m not sure most people mind …. – its behind closed doors …

        As for the stereotype of all gay men being sluts – it is a stereotype, equally as it is a stereotype that all gay men who go to saunas are dirty old men or closeted married men in their 40s …

        If you don’t like saunas – don’t go. I don’t like mosques or straight massage parlours – I choose not to go – I dont campaign for them to be closed down

    3. One of the reasons gay men and gay relationships are seen as being less loving/committed/romantic is because people perceive gay men think sex is meaningless/unromantic and something that can be had 24/7 in a sauna, dogging site or grinder. im not saying having multiple partners is anything to be ashamed about BUT many people do, so you cant scream homophobia when someone says gay men shouldn’t be able to adopt/marry even though you still endorse the very reason gay men are perceived to be unfit farther/husbands witch is simply our relaxed and shameless attitudes about sex.

    4. ‘We can do what we want, its other people who stereotype us’ what a ridiculous statement, they stereotype up BECAUSE we do what we want.
      if you keep endorsing saunas/dogging then you don’t have a right to be offended by slut stereotype. cant have it both ways!

  19. P A Mag LOCHLAINN 10 Jun 2011, 4:30am

    Psychiatry tells us that the vast majority of men (gay, bi or straight) think about sex some eighty times a day. Any straight man who refused the offer of straight sex (for free, no questions, no complications) would be immediately denounced by his mates (and probably accused of being gay!) It is quite normal for men to have recreational sex: Celibacy is an un-natural lifestyle choice. In gay saunas, sex is usually in closed cubicles, which are more safe, salubrious and private, than any parked car. Mr Bradford has never tried to discourage the thousands of straights enjoying sex every night in cars around Derry. He wouldn’t dare, because the lovers would punch him in the nose, and report him as a Peeping Tom. He thinks he can still bully gay people because his church has got away with this for so long.

    1. Very true P A.

    2. P.A. If he tried to discourage the people having sex around town in Derry on a friday or saturday night when the pubs get out, I think a punch on the nose would be the least of there worries. He would be lucky if he survived. Anyway, discouraging people having sex in there cars in Derry on a weekend night would be a logistical nightmare.

      As for Bradford. I have met him some time back. He is a friend of that other reverant who protests all the time, namely Reverand Ian Brown. Both of them would protest at a duck quaking, if they through they would get away with it.

      Also I know for a fact that at least one catholic parish house has a sauna in it, as does at least one prodestant reverands house in Derry. Growing up in a construction family I tended to pick things like that up.

      Next time I am in Derry, I must buy a chalice and use it to drink red wine while dressed as a vampire. That should wind up the blue rinse brigade:)

  20. Gay Daily Mail Reader 10 Jun 2011, 7:03am

    Over 3200 people died during the recent Troubles in Northern Ireland, caused by religion, people being killed because they are the wrong type of Christian. Now that they have stopped bashing each other doesn’t mean that they should start bashing gays. Ironically it seems that Protestant Pastor Mark Bradford agrees with the Pope about something. How about the Bethnal Baptist Church teaming up with the Westboro lot?

    1. Particularly when the Sauna is a cross community, non religious and non discriminatory venture. With it’s credentials it should be getting Good Relations Funding from the government.

  21. One of the reasons I left Ulster in 1983 was the bigotry and double standards of some people living there.

    They attack,gay people,yet are silent on so called other sins,such as adultery etc.

    Sunday christians,who walk by homeless people some of whom have served their country,in many ways.

    Good luck to the sauna in Londonderry/Derry and everyone who frequents it,have fun and play safe.

  22. Saunas are very healthy and why some nut job Christians want to stop people from being healthy is too much. These Christians want to control every bodies penis and anus, for god sakes it is time to get these nuts out of our anus and off of out penis and out of out saunas, they have no business there. God created gays the same as straights and they have penis and anus and it is not the business of Christians to tell us what the hell we should or should not do with them. Kick the Christians out of the sex life of people now. If Christians don’t like it then don’t do it. Just don’t tell us what we want to do. Until Christians can prove that God did not also create gays they need to get get out of our business.

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