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Pope preaches against ‘secularisation’ and gay marriage to Croatian Roman Catholics

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  1. Dear Benedict

    Go to hell and take your medieval, superstitious clap trap with you.

    1. Absolutely Matt, and still deliberately trying to conflate secularism and atheism, secularism allows freedom of religion, freedom to worship and freedom to manifest one’s beliefs within the law in such a way that it does not interfere in the rights of others.
      What secularism does is it creates a level playing field, certainly it removes undeserved religious privileges that otherwise always disadvantage others.
      What Ratzinger wants of course is special privileges for Catholics.

      1. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 9:55am

        It seems these particular religious people seem to just want all the Freedoms for themselves so the rest of us can go to…
        Bunch of hypocrites.

    2. I agree, the lot of them are parasites. And are damaging the world far more than we are.

      Hell how can he sy deforestation isn’t an issue. That bit telly gets me. So many beautiful creatures hurting becaus elf selfish human needs.

      1. whymewhyme 8 Jun 2011, 8:37am

        “And are damaging the world far more than we are. ”

        Adam88, don’t let the pope get to you – we are not the lesser of two evils – he’s on his own in that domain.

        by your comments, you’re not damaging things at all – good luck beautiful creature !

  2. Ian Bower 7 Jun 2011, 3:30pm

    Fortunately, we are happy to acknowledge the spread of a secularisation which leads to the exclusion of superstition from life and the increasing happiness of people, especially in Europe,…”

    Have I mis-quoted him? ;-)

    1. Jock S. Trap 7 Jun 2011, 4:41pm

      Fior the better so Who Cares!

  3. It’s the a struggle to fight off there failing religion.
    The desperation is so obvious lol

    1. You’re absolutely right, Hamish. In fact, all religions are rapidly losing ground to reason, technology and progress. Theirs is now a lost cause.

      1. And of course the gay activists are forming their own religion with their own hierarchal priesthood. The whole gay rights movement is nothing but a religion as it dwells in controlling thought, group think, censorship of other ideas (to the ilk of calling it “blasphemous”) and the worship of certain beliefs: xeno-equality, leftist corporatism, and neo-con war mongering, and of course the worshiping of certain celebrities like Gaga who is now considered as the “gay pope.” These are basic tenets of any religion.

        1. Xeno-equality, forsooth! My, what fancy beliefs we who think equal rights are a good thing do have!
          .
          No wonder you see hierarchies and conspiracies everywhere pepa, you have more than a touch of the preacher – sorry, should that be prophet? – about you.

        2. “And of course the gay activists are forming their own religion with their own hierarchal priesthood.”

          Translation: Acute paranoia.

          1. Secularism is seen as such a grave threat by Catholics, evangelical Christians and other religions with expansionist ambitions because, in the interests of equality, it tends to clip their wings and makes them feel constrained in their bigotry.

          2. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 9:57am

            He’s flipped!
            Nursey….

          3. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 9:57am

            Exaclty Pavlos!

        3. Mr Ripley's Asscrack 8 Jun 2011, 12:00pm

          Woop-woop… window licker alert! The basic tenet of any religion is hanging your brain up at the door with your coat, love. I’ve never heard heard of xeno-equality, perhaps Mrs God would explain its usage… foreign equality? WTF.

        4. @Pepa
          .
          What Religion are the “Gay Activist” forming?

  4. This piece of filth doesn’t address the fact that the breakdown in hetero marriage is the result of hetero adultery and philandering. Gays marrying has hardly anything to do with straights having multiple out of wedlock births and bed-hopping from wife to mistresses on the side, its as old as hetero civilisation, long before same-sex marriage was a beep on the radar. What an idiot.

    1. Exactly! You’d think that some gay couple getting married in a town immediately leads to all the straight married couples galloping off to get a divorce. What a stupid thing to say. Most likely is that equal marriage rights for us would have no effect on straight people at all, or, indeed, even strengthen marriage.
      But then, where would the Pope be without an enemy to rally the troops? And why is equal CIVIL marriage any of his business anyway?
      As for secularism – good. I’m glad it’s growing because it’s taking power away from religious leaders – and don’t they know it.

      1. Jock S. Trap 7 Jun 2011, 4:43pm

        Yes but the ironic thing is they go on about the LGBTQI community but my, my don’t these popes, archbishops etc have almight big hissy fits when they don’t get what they want!

    2. “This piece of filth doesn’t address the fact that the breakdown in hetero marriage is the result of hetero adultery and philandering”
      But british gay activists want to also destroy heterosexual families:
      We fight for something more than reform. We must aim for the abolition of the family…
      So both the Pope and Gay Sex Activists (the new gay priesthood) want to destroy families and have all children be taken by the state where some of them can be molested by “child protection officers.”

      1. “But british gay activists want to also destroy heterosexual families:”

        More nonsense:- Zero proof. Histrionic. Paranoid.

        Yep, its a Pepa grade comment, everyone. He’s now referenced (in his daft link as “proof”) some obscure 1972 document called the “Gay Manifesto”…. 1972. nearly 40 years ago. And he thinks its real. LOL!

        1. And there was me thinking the “homosexual agenda” was a spoof limited to the Fox news demographic and a bunch of tongue in cheek satirists. I wasn’t counting for the tin-foil hat brigade too.
          Well maybe I should come clean, all this time I’ve been secretly working on the homosexual agenda mark 2 in my hollowed out volcano on a tropical island, the one with the feng shuied Ken Adams inspired interior and the buff henchmen in lycra hotpants. They don’t do much but it’s nice to have them around.
          I’m currently working on a chemical weapon that turns all straight men gay! Mhuaahaahaahaahaahaahaaa!

          1. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 1:29pm

            Oddly, I’m only slightly disturbed by the lycra hotpants, I mean come on, hotpants?
            I have my buff henchmen in speedos, Alwhite Interior inspired by Victor Schnokems, the white Persian, the white Egg chair and darrrrling I already have the secret weapon to turn all straight men Gay. Trials have been taking place already. Very successful. A few won’t surrender but we don’t want them ones anyway.
            Now lunch.
            Hotpants indeed – tut!

          2. Jock – You’ve already discovered my secret formula for three pints of lager in capsule form? That is, how shall I put it… unfortunate?
            There’s room for only one megalomaniac homosexual in this masterplan.
            Now if you’d like to step over to that conveniently placed trapdoor above the rabid diamante-collared chihuahua tank I shall be bidding you good-day.

          3. Galadriel1010 9 Jun 2011, 12:06am

            Dear Jock and Flapjack,
            I’m shipping it,
            Sincerely, Gala

          4. Jock S. Trap 9 Jun 2011, 10:11am

            So your attempt failed my nemisis.
            You seems to have forgotten that it was I that gave you those diamante collars when we conbined our efforts to get President Obama to repeal the DADT Bill.
            What your didn’t know is in those diamante collars were a small divise that left your chihuahua’s complete stunned on the very sight of me (well who wouldn’t) and wiped their memories… it was a short procedure. Allowing to me escape but not without taking your cleaner (gorgeous isn’t he). Once he knew my powers he didn’t object.
            I’ve already sent my security henchmen BoBo and El Pongo to sort you two out.
            To find, bitch slap and leave a smelly surprise you’ll never shift.
            But before they get to you and give you what you deserve, I’ll tell you your formula is too weak and doomed to failure.
            I have discovered the most effective capsule, guaranteed the best result consists of six pints of strong German beer (not watered down crap) and 2 whisky chasers.
            I will turn all men Gay and dominate the world!

          5. Jock S. Trap 9 Jun 2011, 10:12am

            I can’t wait to see Stephen Greens take on this!!

          6. @Gala – thankyou for your generous offer of ‘shipping it’, but I didn’t get to own a hollowed out volcano on a tropical island without having a firm grasp of logistics. I don’t require any further assistance with ‘shipping’ my formula, though if you would like to apply for one of our many ‘minion’ posts feel free to complete the online application and I’ll be in touch. There is a high staff turnover in that sector due in no small part to the chihuahas.
            Bobo and El pongo are currently engaged in infiltrating every Yates’s winebar in the UK and slipping MY formula into the clientele’s drinks. You see Jock, if you require their unquestioning loyalty you should seriously consider paying your henchmen.

          7. Jock S. Trap 9 Jun 2011, 3:27pm

            Flapjack
            Unfortunate. Clearly loyalty comes at a price, you see with just 1 push.. 2 pushes.. 3 pushes 4,5,6.. damn thing..ah there we go.. 10 pushes of this little button Bobo & El Pongo will be no more than a vapour of my original formula. (don’t pity the pubs cleaner much).
            Your cleaner (Purrrrr) has proved very useful in more ways than 1. (Seriously, I had a block sink for a week, you have any idea how much it costs to get a plumber down to my deep sea city?)
            You may think you have foiled my plan but all you have done is force me to divert to Plan B.
            It will prove more effective than any known formula.
            It has also proved to be remarkable permanent, not unstable like yours only lasting til they flee before breakfast.
            I will now unveil my excellent plan. I have cloned 800,000 Anne Widdecombes and Shirley Phelps.
            I will disperse the around the globe and within a week all (sensible) men will convert to be Gay, destined never to return.
            Whats that? Genius I hear you say. Well Thank you!

          8. Jock S. Trap 9 Jun 2011, 3:27pm

            I have to go now Mum’s says my dinners ready!

      2. Oh, that’s all of us, is it? Because of something written by one slightly bonkers group in 1971?
        .
        Grow up.

      3. “and have all children be taken by the state where some of them can be molested by “child protection officers.””

        Oh. My. God.
        .
        I just spotted this.
        .
        Pepa, YOU are a serious risk to children, if you think this. Get help. You have acute mental health issues, and clear obsession with children and sex. Its not healthy or acceptable.

        1. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 10:01am

          Yep there we go again.
          I’m understanding why he gets banned from other sites.
          Nobody wants ‘his’ sort around them.

          1. And not a moment too soon to have him banned here too, Jock, I’m sick of his pseudo-intelligent insults and lying – not to mention his bigotry and his racism.

          2. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 2:37pm

            Yep, agree Will.
            It doesn’t stop.

          3. Paddyswurds 8 Jun 2011, 9:57pm

            @everyone…
            …have y’all seen his website. This dude is seriously sick, but then he lives in the US of A

          4. url then??

          5. Click on his name Jonpol…. its a veritable journey along the mind of the schizophrenic.

          6. Jock, I have just checked out his website, and I see you what you mean. Unfortunately.

          7. mmmm… another madman yelling in the desert…

            what kind of upbringing produces this kind of aberration?

            There must be clinical help available… poor guy.

      4. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 9:59am

        pepa = cockoo cockoo!!

  5. To think some people still take this relic seriously.

    1. The Pope exists in bizarro world where condoms spread aids, gays destroy hetro marriages, child molesters get a slap on the wrist and sent to another parish and no-one ever has sex without his say so.
      Ignoring his latest brainfart is usually a safe bet.

      1. All we can do is to appeal to scientific values, but If someone doesn’t value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide that proves they should value it?
        If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument could you invoke to prove that they should value logic?

  6. The more speeches like this he makes the more he drives people away from Catholicism.

  7. I love secularisation! It means Benedict and his cult will be out of jobs!

    1. martyn notman 7 Jun 2011, 7:07pm

      and the Vatican would make a superb hotel…cant wait to take my Boyf. and check in for a few nights..They could set up a gay club in the castel St Angelo …

      1. I think it already is … cough!

  8. Salvatore Borg 7 Jun 2011, 3:54pm

    I as Roman Catholic am ashamed of this stupid pope and hope that they will change him very soon bec he is bringing the church down…!!!

    Ps: I am a gay teen from Malta and I am proud to call myself GAY.

    1. And your country has just voted in favour of divorce much to the horror of pope Ratzinger and his child-abusing priests.

    2. Good for you. But you shouldn’t be proud to call yourself catholic! Give up this backward su[superstition!

      1. de Villiers 7 Jun 2011, 5:13pm

        I am proud to call myself Catholic. The religion is as much mine as it is the Pope’s – and I will not allow the Pope’s misguided pronouncements to deny me the right to my own heritage.

        1. You should probably try stop them raping children then, while you’re at it…..

          1. Why do you care in stopping child rape? when I pointed it out the child rape that is more dominant with CPS workers here in America you simply laughed it off.
            Hypocritical.
            Government Secularism doesn’t fix child rape, it as gruesome and well organized as in the church. What is scary is how you chose to avoid it. Maybe when you realize that more than 500,000 children in America have been molested by CPS (versus less than half of that in the church) maybe just maybe you will then realize why I bring this up.

          2. Oh, yes, I forgot, its YOU who spends his time thinking about abusing children.

            No wonder you think we’re all paedophiles…. well, we’re not all like you Pepa. We’re not the ones with the kiddy-fiddling obsession.

            You’re a mentally sick and repugnant individual.

        2. So what exactly makes you a catholic de villiers. A deep held belief in transubstantiation? Homoousios? The marble in the churches? The hats and frocks they wear? Or maybe michelangelo’s muscle men and a mozart requiem?

          1. I think he means his mum and dad were Catholics and so on , it’s a bit like passing down your genes to the next generation!

          2. It means you have a right to be whatever you want. You know.. right to choice. Pro-choice.
            Oh did you people mean pro-abortion? Most likely. Since most of you despise people making their own choices in their own lives and having their own beliefs while at the same time you expect ALL GAYS to conform to your belief system or else they are ridiculed by you and Jockstrap and Will. The real oppressors.

          3. So pepa, you equate a little light sarcasm on an internet forum with, say, murdering a doctor who performs abortions, do you? Same sort of ‘oppression’ in pepa-world, is it?
            .
            It might be worth noting that no-one here is seriously suggesting that all organised religion should be outlawed. So where’s the oppression?

          4. Yeah, that’s right Pepa, we’re “oppressors”….. and well done! A comment that didn’t refer to sex with children.

            Ever wonder why no one likes you? I mean you managed to get an entire Internet site to despise your damaged paedophilia-obsessed mind, I can only imagine you can’t leave the house without being lynched mobbed.

        3. Do you not believe in Papal infallibility? If not then surely you are not a roman catholic.

          1. for a long time I saw myself as roman Catholic but never believed in Papal infallibility or the churches reasons for spreading Homophobia or gender inequality.and Just like most catholic’s I Didn’t ever believe you will go to Hell if you don’t go to church every Sunday. Finding Myself to be wrong (gender diverse[trans]) in the official eyes of the church was more then enough to totally reject the church without rejecting parts of the faith that helped me survive Cancer as a teen as In searching for why being me was wrong as far the church was concerbed I never once got a straight answer. While I had many good chats with priests about my understanding of God that are afirming of my choice to be who I know I am. I’ve also had priests agree with my belief that the pope is no better then any other person and theirful just as full of crap as any other person in power.

        4. Your heritage is one of superstition and bigotry and it is time you abandoned it. Otherwise you are placing your religion (usually regarded by civilised people as a mild form of mental illness) above your gayness.

          1. Then why do you gay liberals endorse Obama who is still OPPOSED to gay marriage.
            If anybody is putting their belief system over their “gayness” look no further than these kool-aid drinking liberals.

          2. Who said we did? How insular of you to think that we all live in the US, or are as obsessed with US politics as you?

            More to the point, why would someone (i.e. you) think all gay men are paedophiles?

        5. Sounds like your heritage is self-hatred.

        6. I think the pope is a vile man. However to be frank, the ignorant comments half of you are spewing about Catholics is shockingly stupid. What about of the LGBT Catholics? or tolerant Catholics? Attacking someones religion dosen’t make you smart and makes you just as bad as this homophobic Cretin the Pope.

          1. de Villiers 7 Jun 2011, 9:42pm

            I am slightly disappointed by the response – a suggestion that my intellect is so sub-standard and my thought so dysfunctional that I have been fooled into self-hatred and mental illness.

            I do not believe in Papal infallibility. This newly created doctrine was defined in 1870 and was widely disputed (as it presently is by Orthodox Christians). It was a desperate grab for certainty, a bit like the Protestant theory of the infallibility of scripture invented in 1881 by Benjamin Warfield and Archibald Hodge, at the time when developing knowledge in science and evolution were undermining established beliefs.

          2. de Villiers 7 Jun 2011, 9:42pm

            I am slightly disappointed by the response – a suggestion that my intellect is so sub-standard and my thought so dysfunctional that I have been fooled into self-hatred and mental illness.
            .
            I do not believe in Papal infallibility. This newly created doctrine was defined in 1870 and was widely disputed (as it presently is by Orthodox Christians). It was a desperate grab for certainty, a bit like the Protestant theory of the infallibility of scripture invented in 1881 by Benjamin Warfield and Archibald Hodge, at the time when developing knowledge in science and evolution were undermining established beliefs.

          3. de Villiers 7 Jun 2011, 9:48pm

            As to homoousian or the Trinity, I take this not literally but spiritually. One could say infinity and infinity and infinity amounts to infinity. The intention of the Cappadocian fathers was to end the thought of god as ‘a’ being rather than a myth on which to meditate and discover ekstasis, undiscoverable by rational analysis. It is an initiation into a meditation which recognises the limits of language. The trinity is an ‘activity’ rather than a literal truth.
            .
            There is no ego in the Trinity. The father sacrifices himself of everything to the son to the point where there is no ‘I’. It is only the journey. The son is the father of whom the spirit is no more than the breath. It is the deepest, inner core of every being.
            .
            The Trinity, for me, is a behaviour – that of the realisation of the limits of language, the silence, the mystery, the poetry, the emptiness and the innerness – of which we can find discovered artistic truths in relation to all of us.

          4. de Villiers 7 Jun 2011, 10:04pm

            Religion for me, and Catholicism in particular, requires effort and determination. It is not about a ‘sky god’ or other simplistic and modern representations. In the same way that to achieve ekstasis from music, poetry, art, dance, one must both master and submit totally.
            .
            The spirituality from great art is indescribable or capable of rational analysis. It requires passivity, openness, a recognition of the limits of language and the power of contemplation.
            .
            Catholicism for me is the personal commitment to artistic unknowing, uncertainty, the undiscovered in the familiar and the spiritual exercise. I do not try to understand in order that I may believe intellegere ut credam but I believe in order that I may understand credo ut intelligam.
            .
            The Pope is certainly not going to take that away from me and neither will I surrender it voluntarily.

          5. Just wondering tho de villers why you dont leave the roman catholic church and join the old catholic church (which split after the introduction of papal infallibility)

          6. LGBT Catholics and so called tolerant Catholics are quite simply intellectual hypocrites, deserving of our intellectual contempt. It’s no good saying that the Pope is a vile man but his followers may not be. Those of his followers stupid enough to worship bits of cookie at Catholic masses are, by the clear statements during such acts of worship (the recitation of the creed and all the laughable anti-intellectual drivel with which they are associated) making a political statement that they agree with the political statements that the church is making. There is no middle ground. They either agree or don;t and if they go to mass they must be presumed to agree. It’s time for a bit of intellectual honesty around here.

          7. @de villiers: papal infallibility is de fide and if you do not believe in it you are in a state of mortal sin. You cannot pick and choose which doctrines of the catholic church you believe in. By your (I assume) active particpation in the affairs of this disgusting organisation you are condoning its conduct. Oddly enough, I think that both we and it have grounds for complaint against you on the grounds of the most blatant intellectual hypocrisy: the Bishop of Rome has perfect grounds for throwing you out and in my view he should.

            As to your comments, which I do acknowledge are most eloquently put, on the concept of that which is spirituality and beyond reason: if you mean by that simply that art, poetry, music (even Gregorian chant) is in some way beyond rational analysis – that one cannot ultimately explain in ordinary language what it is that pricks the hairs on the back of one’s neck about (for example) the transition from the third to the fourth movement of Beethoven’s /tbc

          8. /cont fifth symphony is not capable of rational analysis. I will concede that – what you call artistic unknowing – is something that it is pointless our arguing about.

            BUT. Not only are you distancing yourself from some of the basic doctrines of the Catholic church but you are avoiding what catholicism is really about (even conceding that it may also be about spirituality in the rather soppy sense in which you describe it: life is capable of being understood and there is no need to believe the doctrine of the trinity in order to understand it. Intelligere stands alone without credere. Even the hairs pricking on the back of my neck are capable of rational explanation.

            More importantly, your actions (I assume you waste your time at mass on sundays) are a clear and public statement of your adherence to the political doctrines of the catholic hierarchy and by doing so you damage the gay cause.

            /tbc

          9. /cont

            if you must be Christian on the basis that there are things beyond comprehension that you fancy suspending your reason to believe in, then for pity’s sake (I mean that literally) fid a church which does not treat peole like you and me (maritally faithful but non-celibate gays) as inherently sinful. There are some about I suppose.

            But you cannot intellectually be a catholic and a gay without the most serious intellectual hyprocrisy: “Under which King, Bezonian?”

            ———

            @James: could you explao which of my comments you deem “ignorant” please.

          10. De Villiers. I respect your understanding of your faith. You sound like an old jesuit theology teacher I once had. Although privately to me, he used to say it was all a load of hogwash and he wished he hadn’t wasted his life thinking such nonsense.

          11. James is somewhat right. I am opposed to the church and its child pedophile rings, and I disagree with it on many grounds on history and so forth, but catholics are also not that fond of their own church politics but are still faithful to their beliefs.
            The bigoted statements underline how little these gay fascists know about catholics, in fact many of them in America support gay marriage:
            Among religious respondents to the recent polls, Latino Catholics showed more movement toward supporting gay marriage (at 57 per cent) than Latino Protestants (at 22 per cent).
            But of course the gay fascists on this board feel that showing their bigotry against catholics is more important than changing people’s mind on homosexuality. Which is one of the many reasons I quit the gay rights movement (their new religion).

          12. “Which is one of the many reasons I quit the gay rights movement (their new religion).”

            Well done. A win-win situation, basket cases like you who think all gay men are paedophiles only make the fight for equality harder. You’re of no use to humanity, let alone equality.

          13. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 10:11am

            Fact remains that weither LGBTQI Catholic or tolerant Catholic, or those people of any religion, the more orthodox in each will still tell those LGBTQI people and tolerant that they are not of that religion, or not proper Catholic, Christian, Muslim, Jew…

          14. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 10:13am

            I suspect those you left are now progressing and thinking Good Riddance to bad rubbish like you.

          15. de Villiers 8 Jun 2011, 7:42pm

            Well there it is. I do not see the world in black or white, good or evil, but as a many shades of colours. I cannot agree that I must enter into an extreme “all or nothing” bargain and it would seem to me to be almost robotic to do so.
            .
            I reject both the anti-democratic pronouncements of the Pope relating to sexuality and the dictatorial bullying of militant atheism which demands not just a secular state (correctly) but also a secular soul.

          16. Paddyswurds 8 Jun 2011, 10:19pm

            @deVilliers…
            …do you ever re-read the psuedo intellectual clap trap you post deVilliers. I, in sixty years haveseldom come across such rubbish as you have posted on this thread in an effort to justify the unjustifieable, the whole idea that there is somehow a raison de terre. There isn’t, so get over it and get on with your life and stop searching for what clearly, to the intelligent anyway, isn’t there.

          17. Paddyswurds 8 Jun 2011, 10:26pm

            @deVilliers…
            ….errata raison d’etre ** obv

          18. de Villiers 9 Jun 2011, 11:26am

            > I, in sixty years haveseldom come across such rubbish as you have posted on this thread in an effort to justify the unjustifieable,

            Given your tone, Paddy, I believe you. It would appear that in the more than sixty years of your life, you have never read or come across any such theological or philosophical work.

          19. de Villiers 9 Jun 2011, 11:26am

            > I, in sixty years haveseldom come across such rubbish as you have posted on this thread in an effort to justify the unjustifieable,
            .
            Given your tone, Paddy, I believe you. It would appear that in the more than sixty years of your life, you have never read or come across any such theological or philosophical work.

        7. Galadriel1010 7 Jun 2011, 11:20pm

          Good for you. We still have a right to our religious beliefs, whatever others who share our church or other members of the gay community think.

          1. Yes, you have a right to believe what you like. But by your association with homophobic and backward institutions you are making a political statement of opposition to gay rights. To put it another way, you are in league with the enemy.

          2. de Villiers 8 Jun 2011, 10:07pm

            Well there it is. I do not see the world in black or white, good or evil, but as a many shades of colours. I cannot agree that I must enter into an extreme “all or nothing” bargain and it would seem to me to be almost robotic to do so.
            .
            I reject both the anti-democratic pronouncements of the Pope relating to sexuality and the dictatorial bullying of militant atheism which demands not just a secular state (correctly) but also a secular soul.

          3. Galadriel1010 9 Jun 2011, 12:27am

            Harry, you are making an assumption there that I associate with one of the institutions you describe as homophobic and backwards. I left the Church of England when Williams said that the church would always oppose marriage equality, and will be writing to him to tell him why just as soon as I have the spoons spare.

            So no,I don’t associate with anyone at the moment. I just believe in Jesus, and that, in my book, makes me a christian.

          4. @ Galadriel1010. Good for you in resigning from the C of E – your words “our church” confused me.

            @de villiers. I shall ignore your use of the irrational (what it boils down to is that you think there is some irrational satisfaction from great art and that justifies you you having irrational feelings about a god and in particular a catholic god.).

            Two straightforard questions:-

            1 How do you justify the anti-gay public statement you make by attendance at mass and publicly acknowledging the catholic religion?

            2 Why on earth, if you must believe in the essences of Christianity, can’t you find a more gay friendly church?

            I think those two questions sum up the hyprocrisy that (somewhat more politely than Paddy I hope) I accuse you of.

          5. Galadriel1010 13 Jun 2011, 2:42pm

            I use ‘our church’ the same way I would use ‘our community’. ‘My church’ is the church I grew up in, both the local one in the next village (mine doesn’t have one) and the Church of England. Hope that makes sense.

    3. Ian Bower 7 Jun 2011, 4:54pm

      Because of the Vatican’s system – it is highly likely that his successor will be just as bad.

    4. A member of the Body of Christ?! When one is sexually frustrated beyond belief, the double entendres just keep popping up everywhere, don’t they?

    5. Where did you get that load of nonsense from, sweetie?

      Your christ may be merciful, but you clearly aren’t you bigoted muppet.

      You stick to eating your god in ritualised cannibalism, and I’ll stick to my independent and rational mind, but cheer for the pointers….

    6. It is a shame, Carla, that you appear to devalue and demonize feelings and relationships that don’t fit in with your unprovable supernaturalist claptrap. Now come to your senses and stop believing in invisible spirits which give spurious legitimacy to your irrational antagonisms.

    7. Ignore the troll carla. What’s a fundamentalist christian doing on here anyway. Sick bltch.

    8. Im gay and catholic too, proud to be both. Ignore the petty comments also posted on your comment. It seems that it’s not just the catholic church that needs to become more open to the world and the beliefs within it.

  9. Hilarious – Ratzinger is preaching against secularisation in the Balkans.

    The Balkans – does he not remember the past 15 years?

    Has he forgotten what happens when religion is allowed to flourish.

    We get the Serbs (Orthodox) and the Croats (Catholic) and the Muslims.

    And we all know how that turned out. Is Ratzinger actually claiming that religion is a force for GOOD in the Balkans.

    He is clearly going senile.

    Secularisation would have been very, very welcome in the Balkans

  10. This church and its god have nothing but fear as its foundation. It feels vulnerable and threatened by any little perceived sin because it cannot stand up against truth or the destruction of its illusions. It is like a bully, a psychological coward that proves too scared to look at himself, too fearfully arrogant to transform into anything good. It i a collection of sad desperate people. “Forgive them for they know not what they do”. -

    1. Jock S. Trap 7 Jun 2011, 4:51pm

      It gets me that the Poop and his ‘band of unmerry men’ go one about everyone elses beliefs as if others not believing what they want us to somehow changes what they think themselves.
      Seriously, are they That insecure?
      Honestly If someone truely believes in their religion and their marriage,
      How does me not believing stop them believing?
      How does me marrying my beloved, stop them believing?
      They are seriously warped and completely shallow.
      They bang on about not being intimidated about their beliefs but clearly feel threatened not only at the slightest but at things that have no relevence or barring on them whatsoever.
      It’s not us they should be questioning…
      It’s themselves…
      Oh we’ve enter the feared territory now.

      1. Jock S. Trap 7 Jun 2011, 4:53pm

        Nothing worse than a religion fruitlube having to look at themselves.
        Thats when the rent boy issues start.

  11. Dan Filson 7 Jun 2011, 4:06pm

    On top of everything else Croatia must now suffer a further German invasion.

    If only the RC church could focus on Christianity instead of sex

    1. But the RC cult is deeply focussed on christianity.

      Isn’t it hateful, bigotted, intolerant and divisive – traditional christian values?

  12. The Whore of Babylon is the working of evil in the world. As far as Ratzinger is concerned, it is important to remember the adage: You can take the boy out of the Hitler youth, but you can’t take the Hitler youth out of the boy. Ratzinger illustrates that notion perfectly.

  13. secularism isn’t going to destroy family life – the pope with his support plus encouragement of homophobia does destroy families though, plus if a family gets broken then the family is where the fault is eg parents who are homophobes!
    the pope can preach but he only shows how pathetic he is

  14. Jock S. Trap 7 Jun 2011, 4:41pm

    “Unfortunately, we are forced to acknowledge the spread of a secularisation …”

    What a load of crap.
    Who the hell forces secularism?
    It isn’t a religion.
    In any case what is the vile ol fart doing?
    Isn’t he going round different counties trying to force his religious agenda on others?
    I don’t see that coming from anyone secular.
    It’s a bit like this old chestnut “Homosexual agenda”.
    I don’t see any 2 people, weither Gay, Lesbian or otherwise knocking on doors trying to give unexpecting householders copies of the Gay Times.
    Yet twice already this year I have had people at the door trying to give me copies of the bloody Watch Tower!!
    Bunch of ol’ hypocrites.

    1. de Villiers 7 Jun 2011, 5:17pm

      It is necessary to require secularism in the public sphere – as in France and the defence of the laïcité.

  15. Iris, Rowan Williams will be beating his chest in the same manner once the marriage equality consultation begins, you can bet your life on it. Old chestnuts that have long worn out their use such as the one man one woman, procreation nonsense which have nothing to do with CIVIL marriage will be brought out for an airing. They think they own and control it. Since when? The procreation mantra is a farce. Using it as their opposition to same-sex marriage would have to imply that they’d support a ban on heteros who choose not to or can’t procreate from marrying, as well as women beyond child bearing years. Its nothing more than a canard, an act of desperation. Deep down they know they won’t be forced to recognise same-sex marriages in the same way they they’re not obliged to recognise CPs. Williams must know it but he’ll use those pathetic excuses to pacify his bigot base at home and abroad. So transparent!

    1. Indeed, Robert. And do you see Williams and his ilk wringing their hands about divorcees having a civil marriage, and insisting that it’ll cause the world to end? No, of course not. Reason – he’s too much of a coward to pick on such a large group and go against public opinion. Actually, while he’s at it, maybe he should trumpet on about ALL civil marriages because they don’t count, according to his religion, and thus the participants are adulterers.
      I really get p*ssed off that any religion will be consulted about equal civil marriage. It’s nothing to do with them. The Government should assure them that no church will be compelled to marry anyone they don’t want to (just like they can refuse to marry divorcees), then tell them to get their noses out of civil business. Yes, I know they know really that they won’t ever be forced to marry gay couples, but I wish Cameron would put a very firm stop to their scare-mongering cr*p.

      1. Jock S. Trap 8 Jun 2011, 10:16am

        “I really get p*ssed off that any religion will be consulted about equal civil marriage. It’s nothing to do with them.”
        Oh Here! Here! Iris.
        Well said.

  16. You can lecture me on morality when the institution you control has gone 50 years without fu*king any kids. Case closed.

  17. Well, seems he like repeating the same old lesson he learned in the Hitlerjugend… broken frickin’ record. For the benefit of all humanity and democracy, long live secularism!

    1. Yes, the equality that Secularism inevitably brings makes Catholic’s feel constrained in their bigotry. ..they hate that!

  18. This pope should bring back exorcism and have one performed on himself immediately.

    1. The Vatican already does employ “exorcists”
      Gabriele Amorth (born 1 May 1925) is an Italian Roman Catholic priest and an exorcist of the Diocese of Rome.

      Fr Amorth was born in Modena, Emilia. He was ordained a Roman Catholic Priest in 1954 and became an official exorcist in June 1986, under the tutelage of Candido Amantini. He claims to have personally performed over 70,000 exorcisms.

      In 1990, he founded the International Association of Exorcists and was president until he retired, at 75, in the year 2000. He is now honorary president for life of the association.[

  19. What is important is that we all listen to a celibate unwed octogenarian relic about subjects like marriage and family because he clearly has his finger on the pulse…. I would just laugh at Mr Prada Shoes and Fancy Hats, if he was not part of a massive conspiracy to protect some of the most hideous crimes imaginable. Like many people,. when I think Popes and RC hierarchy, I think child molestation, threats against the families of the abuse and efforts to conceal and enable paedophilia. Nothing they say should be taken even remotely seriously and their “hate the homo” crap is just a smokescreen for them to hide behind. Call them out and keep calling them out.

    1. “a celibate unwed octogenarian relic ”

      Ah, but he was young once…. you can just see the happy little tyke now, as he frolicked around green Bavarian fields with his swastika proudly emblazoned on his arm, and all the while singing “Es zittern die morschen Knochen” – a delightful little ditty about reducing the world to ruins.

      The only difference I can see now, is that he’s old…..

  20. I found this video on youtube yesterday. The old queen didn’t get it all her own way in Edinburgh after all:

    youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_tqK5pKFU

  21. So, you’re only allowed to be gay and protected if you’re a priest! You’re only allowed to have an abortion if you’re a nun! And the entire human race will disappear with the acceptance of the tiny portion of the population that is transgendered! What an ass. The catholic church is dying as more and more people realize the lies they’ve been telling for millennia. Wake up people!

    RELIGION IS A VIRUS – FIGHT THE DISEASE! INNOCULATE YOURSELF BY REJECTING ALL RELIGION, ESPECIALLY CATHOLICISM!

  22. Found this on you tube yesterday. The old queen didn’t get it all her own way in Edinburgh — join-up the space in you tube bit:
    you tube.com/watch?v=Y3_tqK5pKFU

  23. Detest the old bag.

  24. eddy two, actually he has brought back exorcism, a revival if you will. There are a number of “specialists” within the clergy whom he has appointed to oversee potential cases for exorcism. His cult is becoming more irrelevant every time he opens his mouth. In fact its fertilising the sudden growth in secularism in Europe and elsewhere. He just doesn’t get it that he and his cult are the problem, competely out of touch.

    1. I didn’t know he’d brought back exorcism. The madness of it. But I reckon his mother sucks c0cks in hell.

  25. In honour of the poop’s speech, I’m going to masturbate twice as much in front of gay porn for the next week, whilst proclaiming a secularist lifestyle.

  26. Ooer missus 7 Jun 2011, 6:44pm

    If Europe was truly secular, the EU would stop recognising the Pope as the absolute monarch and head of state of a fictional country, and treat him like any other religious leader. And get access to all the historical documents in the basement while they’re at it.

    1. de Villiers 7 Jun 2011, 10:12pm

      The EU is not secular. The UK is personally secular. France is politically secular. Much of (Catholic) Europe, however, is not secular.

      1. Well the institutions of the EU are secular. There is no religious test, there is no pan european state religion.

  27. What a terrible bore he is, can’t he think of something new for a change….can’t believe anybody under 70 listens to him anymore….90% Catholic – by “heritage” only I think and not in the Pope’s sense of being Catholic!

  28. Ooer missus….I too would love to get my hands on those documents locked up in the Vatican vaults, documents he is terrified of ever becoming public. It’s alledged many of them refer to parts of the bible that were suppressed, which would put the whole of christendom spinning on its head in regard to women, Jesus Christ, as well as homosexuality and probably would make the roman cult among others, defunct.

    eddy two, yes, exorcism is utter madness in this day and age. I believe he revived it about 2 years ago, maybe less. These exorcists receive special training apparently, nothing that a decent psychiatrist couldn’t fathom of course, or cure.

    1. So you really don’t think they’ve had someone down in the basement at work with a document shredder or arranging a convenient flood or fire then?

  29. I pretty much agree with most of what’s been said here, but really – what do you expect Papa Ratzi to say? He has his fairly sleazy (but well-paid) job, he has to do it: preaching tolerance, understanding and small-c catholicism is going to result in his investors melting away, and the poor chap surely must have to live up to expectation!

  30. The guy is over 80 and still doesn’t need glasses.
    I suppose he drinks right out of the bottle, yuk, yuk..

    1. Or, our Lady provides great lighting.

  31. michelangelo 8 Jun 2011, 12:10am

    This is probably one of the most disturbing, hate-filled and irresponsible articles I have ever read.

    As someone who followed and reported on the Pope’s visit to Croatia, I can categorically state that he did not mention “gay marriage” at all during his visit. In fact, neither did he “rail” against abortion or lots of the other things listed in this piece.

    Also, at his Christmas address to diplomats from two years ago the Pope did not say that transgendered people were more of a threat to humanity than the destruction of the rain-forests.

    When I read articles like this, which are bits of propaganda based on the paranoid perceptions, then it seems to me that fear of Christianity (Christianophobia) is a really dangerous event of 21st century secularised Europe. Not even the BNP (another anti-Catholic group) would twist the facts to these lengths.

    It’s sad that such paranoia and misreporting causes vile hatred. Comments above reflect badly on gay people and secularism. God help us!

    1. Except that the ‘Christianophobia’ you see in these comments isn’t really going to result in Catholics or any other Christians being excluded from society or murdered, is it? (Unlike what has happened with some nominally Christian societies within the last 2 decades, eg Serbia or Rwanda.)
      .
      At most such ridicule may result in the long-overdue loss of a little power and influence of a corrupt organisation.

    2. Paddyswurds 8 Jun 2011, 10:37pm

      @michaelangelo….
      ….who exactly is this “god” you call on to help us? Can he/she/it cure cancer for instance or Multiple Sclerosis?

      1. Paddyswurds 8 Jun 2011, 10:39pm

        cont…
        …. oh and feed the billions who go to bed hungry every night..those that have a bed that is. I hear tell he/she/it once fed 5000 with 5 loaves and 5 fishes so it should be a dawdle.

        1. Doddle.

  32. DJ Sheepiesheep 8 Jun 2011, 12:52am

    FTP

  33. “Tony Blair and Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Connor deliberately conflate secularism with atheism.

    Atheism is lack of belief in gods.

    Secularism is a belief in equality in politics, education and law, regardless of religious belief.

    Also, the meaning of secularization varies depending on social context, and the meaning of the word has evolved since it was used in the Middle Ages to denote priests who worked ‘in the world’ as opposed to living and working in a cloistered monastery.

    Interesting topic… some good comments here..

  34. Is it any surprise that any one with a brain and strength of conviction is making a clear choice to exclude god from their life with all the bigoted homophobic hate and rhetoric spoken? not to mention all the wars and senseless killings religion has caused. Such that a pontiff would have to acknowledge “Unfortunately, we are forced to acknowledge the spread of a secularisation which leads to the exclusion of God from life” perhaps people are seeing the light of an unprejudiced alternative.

    1. Galadriel1010 9 Jun 2011, 12:30am

      If you have to choose to exclude God from your life then you’re a closet theist, because if it’s a choice then you must believe in him to exclude him.

      1. In principal some people would agree and others have a different perspective. Is it not natural for people to question what they believe or why they believed. Many people have chosen to become, or always been atheist. Whilst others raised in the church question the whole realm of spirituality and because of conflicts with their conscience and what they are taught will walk away. Others have had no religious inclinations their whole life and make very conscious decisions that regardless of “questioning” the influences brought by birth religion, of schooling and family pressure decide to exclude god in what ever faith or form people around the world see him. Where, when and at what point people realize or make their choice it remains a conscious thought process to get to believe, disbelieve or “exclude”

        1. Galadriel1010 9 Jun 2011, 10:14am

          One can choose to question, I agree. And questioning can lead to a lack of belief. It did for me for a while, but I eventually came back round to believing in him and letting him fit into my life. I don’t neccessarily like him all the time, and I don’t believe that everything the church says is true, but I believe he exists and I can’t choose not to believe that.

          Even if I chose not to worship, which I sort of have having left my church because Rowan Williams is a spineless curr, I can’t choose to exclude God from my life because he’s just there. Not talking to him is not the same as being an atheist.

      2. “If you have to choose to exclude God from your life then you’re a closet theist, because if it’s a choice then you must believe in him to exclude him.”

        Actually, that statement is incorrect. Your statement assumes god exists, and therefore excluding him is by definition accepting his existence. This is incorrect. An atheist refuses the concept of a god in the first place on the basis there is not proof, its is not the same as “excluding god form your life”, its living your life based on reason. God never comes into it.

        1. Galadriel1010 9 Jun 2011, 4:29pm

          You cannot choose to deny the existence of something unless you believe it exists. If you don’t believe in God, because of the lack of evidence, then you don’t believe in God. If you choose not to believe in God then you are essentially saying “I think he does exist, but I choose not to accept that”. You still believe he does exist, but you’re not admitting that, hence closeted. I cannot exclude unicorns from my life, because they are patently non-existant. I can, however, choose to exclude God from my life, because I believe he does exist.

  35. johnny33308 8 Jun 2011, 2:31am

    Here is the truth about the Roman Catholic church-50 million tortured and murdered by 80 Popes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWS0ePXeq24&feature=related

  36. johnny33308 8 Jun 2011, 2:37am

    By the way, this ‘church’ has no moral authority whatsoever, especially so since this ‘Pope’ was the person in charge of the rapist priests and keeping their despicable evil deeds quiet and moving the rapist priests around so that they could continue to rape and abuse hundreds of thousands of children-and never ever protecting the children AT ALL. So where is their moral authority? In hell where these evil rapist priests and those who protected them will go-straight to hell. Screw this last Pope-he is the most evil of all of them-look into his eyes, and see the monster there for yourself. Doubt it? Tell me so after you look into his eyes….your blood will run cold

    1. reality doesn’t affect the majority of the religious and the pope, plus I always wonder how scum like him is moral when they preach hatred, incite violence and death and protect pedos?

  37. Praise heaven for secularisation as it is only in secular countries where even most of the religious nutbags who fight against them have any life or freedom at all. As for this political and business monster, he knows full well what a liar he is in calling himself a follower of the Nazarene. He must also be an atheist or he would be scared to death of what would be waiting for him if any of this nonsense was actually real. It is just another corrupt business trying to keep up the profit margins through false information.

  38. Daniel de Culla 8 Jun 2011, 7:05pm

    Pope is a Fascist Pig Bastard.
    He’s the least bright in his paedophilus class¡

  39. burningworm 9 Jun 2011, 10:58am

    1 + 1 = 3.

    Its funny to me that we date one person. Why one, as if we are trying to re-create adam and eve. Why don’t even think about it and accept it. It is a coercion and we blindly seek out one person.

    I’m for gay polygamy. Gay marriage is a replication of all things that don’t work.

    The LGBTQi community have always had the moral high ground. We must teach them not try and replicate what they do!

  40. What the Pope is doing is trying the preserve the power of the Catholic Church over every aspect of life.

  41. I believe in the word of god, sex should only be allowed after marriage!

    But, What about “corrective rape”, such as in Uganda do they marry the person before they rape them, as to not anger god?

  42. Preaching against secularisation ? Where is he living, in pre-French Revolution Europe ?

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