“Sexual morality is an area where the parents should be taking the lead, not the Scouts…”
Yeah, that might be right, but sexual orientation has nothing to do with sexual morality…
I think these people just want to make excuses that make themselves acceptable to excluding who they want.
they refer to morality yet they ignore that sexual orientation is not linked to morals, yet hate is and how moral is it to encourage hatred? how moral is hate preaching?
About time too.
Though just here not worldwide and esp America I don’t suppose.
It’s a right step from people who lecture us the most important time for a child is the years they are being taught yet omit certain children for who they are.
Even they must acknowledge the damage exclusion brings with it.
Meanwhile why are atheists and agnostic still excluded?
Hardly fair is they suddenly going to change it’s stance on everyone else.
“Inevitably, the idea has been criticised by those who claim this move will shift the focus away from the Association’s “Christian Values”.”
But of course.
This is certainly a move away from ‘Christian morality’
Christian morality simply means bigotry; intolerance; division and hatred.
Any move away from ‘Christian morality’ is a good, good thing.
“Christian morality simply means bigotry; intolerance; division and hatred. Any move away from ‘Christian morality’ is a good, good thing.”
“Sexual morality is an area where the parents should be taking the lead, not the Scouts”.
And so pity any child of his.
If they were gay he’d mentally abuse them to the point of suicide and if they were straight he’d still poison them with hate and guilt.
Good on the scouts, i always enjoyed scouts as a child, and Im glad others will too.
This is a bit of a surprise, isn’t it? It wasn’t that long ago that they were chucking people out for being gay, was it – or is my memory playing tricks?
scouting in the UK has never allowed people being thrown out for being gay, it is only the boy scouts of america that do this.
Ah. Thanks for that.
isnt it kind of ironic that the scouts founder is belived by many to have in fact been gay himself (allbeit repressed) asuming his personal writings are anything to go by, more importantly as far as im aware the original boy scouts and girl guides wasnt mixed in with religion until much later however im not 100% sure of that
I was thinking the same thing about Baden-Powell’s repressed sexuality.
As far as he was concerned, he wanted to train the youth of Britain to be fit to serve in war – he was creating canon fodder. Where does religion come into it?
I’ve never had homophobic abuse in the Scouts, and have been a member for around 18 years.
I know lots of out men and women volunteering, and don’t think many of them have either. When there have been incidents, they have all been dealt with exceptionally professionally.
I don’t think lgbt leaders have ever been kicked out in the UK, although the American version are exceptionally homophobic.
Don’t let the UK haters see these subversive FAQ answers at http://www.scouts.ca/dnn/AboutUs/FAQs/tabid/345/Default.aspx:
Do you have to believe in God to join Scouts Canada? Is Scouting a Christian organization?
No, but you must have a basic spiritual belief. …“God” is the word in the Promise used to represent spirituality, and for some may represent an actual deity, but it may also mean to your family an expression of your personal spirituality.
Are homosexuals allowed to join Scouts Canada?
Scouts Canada does not discriminate for reasons of gender, culture, religious belief (see above) or sexual orientation.
‘No, but you must have a basic spiritual belief.’
Why on earth is belief in a ‘god’ or a ‘spirit’ necessary to be able to raise a tent; tie a knot or be a good member of a community.
The Scouts are based on religion.
It’s good that they are welcoming gay scouts. But the fact tthat it is a christian organisation means that it needs to be watched to prevent any of the traditional religious bigotry and hatred seeping through.
Again, why when this is a positive news story do we have to spin it as negative (responding to Davids comments above – although I note Davids anti religion bias)
The Scouts in America will be in a tizzy once they hear about this. Apparently, gays are banned from becoming scouts. In fact, any private organisation can.
You’re quite right and even the US Supreme Court backed the Scouts. I hope this is a shift in their thinking but I’m not about to hold my breath
pedos aren’t to do with gays – idiot
plus I think you troll
There is no point being part of this organisation in the UK until it stops discrimination against non-believers. Just because it is seeking to have a good record on LGBT issues does not mean that it is not self-evidently bigoted by refusing to accept non-believers as leaders.
Until the movement changes its mind on this LGBT people should steer well clear. We should not be supportive of bigots simply because we are not the victims on this occasion.
Im a member of scouts, and i do not believe in a god. non believers are allowed, and every leader and member i know allows it, even members at gilwell park allow it.
Great news. Read my experience coming out in the Scouts in the 80s
C of E Priest on disability pension, age 50, studied music in Durham, Theology @ University of Oxford
Interested in Men
Relationship Status Single
If this is the same Martin Lawrence, then perhaps he was a subliminally predatory Gay scout – without any intentional intentions, just giving out ‘Gay welcome signals’ without realising and then getting upset when adults ‘who-should-know-better-and-be-protective’ responded in an inappropriate manner!
Do you have to take acid to comment on this thread? I’ve never read so much incoherent babble? Do you have subtitles?
That question was for triga bouncerman ^
The above was a reply to Martin, who unfairly tarred everyone with the same brush.
Martin has since removed his comment, leaving my reply – which now appears irrelevant.
& so it goes on,relentlessly.The ‘dicks in bums’ people wanting more ‘dicks in bums’ people.No more no less
Eh????? What the fukc are you going on about?
The give away bit is in his name, Eddy – “mentaldisorder” – never a truer word said.
Yep, that and the barking mad ‘insult’ of liberalism. What next? Accusing people of the dreadful crime of being kind? It’d make as much sense.
Its probably pepa, his comments are usually along these lines.
Sounds like pepa
I enjoyed being a member of the Scouts as a child and youth, and religion was never part of it. Interestingly, when I came out to my parents in the 1970s, they asked me if there had been anyone “funny” at scouts (there hadn’t). I guess people used to think it was an idea that you picked up from some one else, and that Scouts was a place where this could happen. (Apparently many still think that in the USA).
So I think this is a good and welcome clarification from this excellent outdoors organisation which will help it look more modern and relevant to today’s compuerised and increasingly obese younger generation.
Harry57 wrote: “There is no point being part of this organisation in the UK until it stops discrimination against non-believers. Just because it is seeking to have a good record on LGBT issues does not mean that it is not self-evidently bigoted by refusing to accept non-believers as leaders.
Until the movement changes its mind on this LGBT people should steer well clear. We should not be supportive of bigots simply because we are not the victims on this occasion.”.
As a gay atheist and Humanist, I couldn’t agree more.
Gay people should be suspicious of this move, which is purely aimed at ensuring this discriminatory organisation continues receiving public funds by appearing to be open to all.
The Scout Association is a RELIGIOUS organisation, fronted by ‘adventurer’ Bear Grylls, who also fronts the Christian fundamentalist ‘Alpha Course’.
In recent years, too, the Scouts have only opened religious Scout Groups, particularly in Muslim ares. What chance a gay Scout Leader being made welcome in a Mosque?
Further, if the Scouts are now so ‘gay friendly’, why have they sidelined, FLAGS, their own LGBT support group?
When the Scouts recently developed a new sexual health booklet, FLAGS were not even told about it. There were no references to gays in it, but it WAS packed with information about religious views on sex.
Why too, are FLAGS applicants finding gay-related police cautions being counted as convictions even when the law says they are not?
Become a gay Scout Leader? Get knotted!
Growing up I was first a cub and then a scout, I commend the scouting association for wanting to attract new members regardless of sexual orientation. Every child can benefit from the friendships, interactions and experiences. For me it stops there! People perhaps may not share my views if they are dedicated to a cause, in concept I applaud the idea to attract leaders, but as a gay man I would not (in north America) help, volunteer or participate in any youth oriented organization unless it was to contribute in some way at arms length. Society is so paranoid and hysterical to protect children to an extent that with the bigotry and hatred one angry or vindictive child knows it can make one lie or accusation against a parent, teacher or volunteer and your life as you knew it is over! there is no innocent until proven guilty, any accusation people will conclude your guilt regardless!! Children need good mentors but far to many organizations can’t attract them and this is why! .
Just remember folks, the people who protest about this kind of thing don’t share our views on sexual orientation. While gay people know they didn’t choose to be gay, and simply fundamentally are gay (or other non-heterosexual orientation, substitute as appropriate), these people who are not gay do not know this and do not accept this, and assume we’re choosing. That’s why they can declare that we’re misguided, evil and/or recruiting.
Virtually everything I see from people negatively commenting on this kind of thing can be explained by assuming that they think sexuality is a choice. Maybe it’s understandable – if they’re straight, they think it’s perfectly natural to be straight, and since it’s the orientation which most naturally produces children it’s kind of obvious that they might think it’s the only one that makes any sense to actually be real, since evolutionary theory would suggest that it’s essential to the survival of the species.
Sorry, rambling pointlessly.
You’re right, but what is weird is the unwillingness of some to listen, to the extent they think we’re all lying and it’s some global conspiracy. But Americans love a good global conspiracy I suppose.
“The Association” “still does not officially permit atheists or agnostics.”
Thats not entirely true – I was part of a drive back in the early 80s to change the wording for the Scout Pledge from ‘To do my duty to God’ to ‘To do my duty to MY God’ – its only a small step from that to reword the concept to include atheism and agnosticism.
There are many many many people in the Scout movement – reflecting all kinds of different opinions and beliefs. I simply don’t believe they would have a problem with atheism or humanism or agnosticism.
The UK Scout Association (the first founding Scout movement in the whole world) should rightly be proud of itself for standing up and talking about the gay issue and publicly welcoming new gay members. As we have seen recently the American Scout Association is still stuck in the dark ages and drumming up the ‘no gays welcome here’ bollocks. Well done UK!
Matt, has it ever occurred to you that heterosexuals never choose to be hets either, that in fact no one has found a het gene. The fact of the matter is that the gay lobby have no problem with a het becoming a homo but were someone to claim that they had moved the other way, from being gay to becoming straight this would be greeted with incredulity; and if someone were to claim that through healing or therapy that they had broken free of homosexuality, the police would be called. The reticulated pink pythons jaws only allow food to pass one way.
Heterophilia , homophilia , biphilia (and I almost said polifilia) describe affections, not states of being like being black, white short, fat or thin. The root cause of an affection is not always that easy to trace; one minute the dull girl or boy is just appears to be like anyone else and in a trice, as if by some magic spell, they become in the mind of the infatuated, everything. These infatuations, like vapour , can disappear just as quickly. The feelings may well develop then into intentions and even action; the philias become sexual behaviour and if repeated enough times become imprinted so that the subjects neural brain paths change their character. One becomes a homosexual and the more one practises I suppose one changes to becoming even more homosexual. Now no matter how much a black, white, short, tall, man tries to change he does not become more black, white, short or tall. That Matt is truly genetic.
The point is this: we are not programmed to behave the way we do. We are not machines. Whereas we might not understand where a thought or emotion came from, we do have freedom of choice either to act on the feeling or to suppress it. You may not have chosen to have these affections, which may have been developing since you were quite young , but you can choose not to act on them. This is what gives human being their dignity. They have to take responsibility for their actions. Evolution is a theory and is rapidly becoming seen for what it is, a myth. There is not a shred of credible scientific evidence for either a gay gene or evolution. You have been had.
You will accuse me of being patronising or hypocritical but I can only say that I have deepest sympathy for anyone afflicted with what is after all a condition.
Some people become homosexuals not just through bad bonding with one or other of the parents, but through being seduced or abused as a child. Others who are older, might experiment with it and find that they get pleasure from it and as I say if the experience is repeated it becomes imprinted and is extremely difficult to erase.
The truth is is that there are counsellors who can help people get rid of unwanted obsessions and addictions but ultimately, it is Jesus Christ who really set us free from the slavery of our old natures.
“it is Jesus Christ who really set us free from the slavery of our old natures.”
Well, he sounds pretty useless, as he hasn’t set you free for your hate, ignorance or bigotry, or anger, has he?
The rest of your comment was your usual nonsense…. the death throws of a losing battle.
Ah Skinner is back
More bigotry and wrong thinking
blimey.. well i have been in Scouts in the UK since I was 8, nearly 30 years ago. I have been a leader for over 15 years and can I just say that there is no conspiracy – at worst its crap organisation at Gilwell (HQ), sadly something for which it is well known in some areas. Yes it gets things wrong, but the aim is true. As for being a Christian Organisation, it is no longer viewed as that. Edmund Grylls is in a paid position for 5 years. Before that it was Peter Duncan from Blue Peter who was also in soft porn! With regards to ‘staying away’ if you have something to offer the young people you will not turned away. Dinosaurs are around in every organisation but most grops are welcoming and supportive of anyone, with any issues!