I love it! Well done, ladies!
You would think, since France is very keen on the separation of church and state, that they would have implemented same-sex marriage.
Congrats Ladies, Well done.
Yewtree, not with the conservative Sarkozy government in power.
Excellent! Congrats girls!
If the French constitution supports a lack of equality then it needs to be changed,
Spain has not legalised gay marriage – they removed the discrimination from their laws and created a system which allowed equality of access to marriage for all regardless of sexuality.
There is a difference and I would not want a gay marriage, an ordinary common or garden one like everyone else will do me fine.
Perhaps my understanding of trans issues is a bit ropey but isn’t Stephanie still biologically a man (despite the SRS).
IN which case isn’t this a same-gender rather than a same-sex marriage?
Define ‘biologically male’, David. There are plenty of indications of complex chromosomal conditions in the trans community and a lot of trans people (myself included) subscribe to the intersexed brain hypothesis. At which point are we trans women female enough for you?
At any rate, what difference does it make whether it’s same-gender or same-sex? Two *women* married and rubbed the transphobic and homophobic French state’s nose in it. That’s what matters. Getting wound up about ‘same sex’ or ‘same gender’ smacks of the ‘not a real woman’ argument that so many transphobic people push on us.
Well done to Stéphanie and Elise. May your example help to break down those barriers the French state puts in place to keep LGBT people down.
Call old fashioned but my understanding of biologically male or female is pretty simple, as in having the sexual organs for whichever sex you are.
Yup, old fashioned and it doesn’t take into account the countless cases of intersexed people and animals this world has. It’s that attitude which makes forced operations of intersexed babies OK and which makes transphobia an acceptable part of society.
It’s time for the cisgendered world to accept that there is more to gender than the genital-oriented binary, just as it’s time for the heterosexual world to accept that there’s more to sexuality than their vanilla experience. Life and nature just isn’t as simple as humanity would like it to be.
I think he has had the full op just not submitted the documents, that’s what I got from the article anyway. Either way I must agree there has been research which has shown trans people are often born with feminine or masculine brains which is why they feel they are born in the wrong body.
Oops didn’t mean to post it twice
I hope you meant ‘she’ as well.
She has had srs. She didn’t submit documentation to change her birth certificate to female although she could have if she wished. Then she wouldn’t have been able to marry her partner which was obviously a higher priority than the birth certificate.
I am in the opposite situation. I was married pre transition. I’m still very happily married to the same woman and have had srs but now can’t have my birth certificate modified because then I would have a same sex marriage. After srs you have the identical hormonal and physical characteristics of a woman with a hysterectomy. Your body feels wonderfully normal for the first time in your life. You live with another woman and have lesbian sex. Looks like a lesbian, acts like a lesbian, feels like a lesbian and even tastes like a lesbian. They’re lesbians ok?
i find it rather ironic that it was the french who were rather far ahead of their time originaly in such matters, IE the napoleonic code which decriminilised same-sex relations between concenting adults which was installed in all countries they conqured at the time, regardless well done on those ladies
quick correction to my prev 1, not all countries but attempted to be impimented in all but from a practicality point of view was only introduced fully into about 90% of them
It’s a pity that the French government doesn’t spend a little more time granting rights to people so they can marry the person they choose, rather than forbidding them to dress the way they choose.
You have completely misunderstood the meaning of this law, like most Anglo Saxon commentators.
and of course it’s not just a symbolic victory. if they’re married in France then the rights that go with that are far greater than those if they were simply PACSed…I think we forget that in other countries SS couples don’t get the same rights as we do…there is a distinct advantage for Stephanie not to submit any gender docs and get married……it really is unfair and the whole sitution highlights it…
Congratulations to them.
This article completely neglects to mention the PACS – France’s version of the civil partnerships (brought in before civil partnerships). Although it is not the same as marriage, it is equal in law and many heterosexual couples chose to ‘se pacser’ as well i.e. it is not a second-class marriage. Though not marriage, it is, at least, a start, i.e. this lesbian couple could still have had a legal partnership. This article portrays France as having no same-sex unions at all. A ‘gay-marriage ban’ is not quite true!
Seems to me their marriage is a betrayal of other same-sex couples who cannot marry.
I was in a similar situation 35 years ago, when my partner asked me to marry her and I felt it would be unfair for us to take advantage of my not being able to change my legal sex to do something other lesbian couples were totally unable to do. Even though I loved and adored her totally and the commitment of marriage would have been so good.
Presently there are many people denying themselves marriages, or civil partnerships, in many countries, even religious ministers refusing to marry couples, until marriage is equally available to all.
I think that makes this couple just look opportunistic and ignorant of the way others are denied their rights.
And, once again this website goes for the stupid fail of making out we are seeking gay marriage, not equal marriage.