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Israeli Knesset Speaker angers orthodox Jews over involvement in Gay Pride Month

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  1. Stuart Neyton 6 Jun 2011, 6:16pm

    It’s still a terrorist state

    1. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2011, 9:28pm

      @Stuart Neyton….
      ………Hear, Hear! It’s hard to believe that there are any right minded gay people still living there never mind be holding a Pride there.

      1. Yeah they should all go to Egypt and enjoy Cairo Pride lol

        1. They don’t need to go that far – just try Palestinian Pride – ooops I forgot all the right minded gay people in Palestine have fled to live and work in Israel where it is safer and they feel more accepted.

          Israel has a large secular community where LGBT people are part of the fabric. We have religious nutters in our governments (National and devolved) too who would spout the same nonsense as this ejit and we could hardly say no US politician every spouts homophobic nonsense. As far as acceptance of gay people Israel is way ahead of most if not all of the countries in the region – maybe not as far along as we would like to think we are but still an important semi safe haven.

          I know Israel is an emotive topic but in reality we have give some credit where it is due.

      2. @Paddyswurds
        Why do you suggest that people who are gay and choose to continue to live in Israel and fight for their rights are not right minded?
        I congratulate and encourage the Israeli LGBT communities in their Pride and campaigning

  2. Well he’s right. It does say that homosexuality is a abomination in the torah. So why would any gay man believe in that religion? (or islam or christianity). Masochism? Because they don’t believe in their holy books? Or because they think their god has changed his mind? The sooner monotheism disappears from this planet, the better for anyone who can think for themselves.

    1. Well no it doesn’t condemn all same sex behaviour
      Leviticus 18:22 Condemns gay ritual sex in a Pagan temple and/or males having sex in a woman’s bed.
      Leviticus 20:13 Condemns gay ritual sex in a temple and/or males having sex in a woman’s bed.
      Literal translation from the earliest Hebrew reads
      “A male with another male may not lay lyings of a woman”, the verse is incomplete and requires insertions for it to make what little sense it does,there is no obvious interpretation of “lay lyings of a woman”.
      The verse comes directly after a condemnation of worship of Moloch and child sacrifice, so understood in context what is being condemned is the wrong kind of orgaistic ritual worship…this type of ritual activity no longer exists, it does not describe homosexuality.

      1. Yeah, I know my theology Pavlos. And you keep telling that to yourself if it makes you feel better, but I assure you they don’t think that in the vatican, in the majority of synagogues, or protestant churches. That has been used for the last few thousand years for monotheists to turn same sex love into a crime, and still is, and still will be as long as anyone cares what leviticus (or the torah) says. Who gives a toss what some mad religious bigot said anyway? Well, just the majority of Jews, Christians and Muslims. Luckily, the west is beginning to see the light and realise that monotheism has no relevance in todays reality.

        1. I think it’s important to point out that tradition only condemns homosexuality but not scripture when you look at the earliest examples we have.
          It is anachronistic and misleading when the word homosexual is used in translations of ancient text.
          It is wrong to proclaim a scriptural view of homosexuality as there is none in the Torah nor in the Bible, the type of ritual worship involving same sex and other sexual activities as part fo worship described no longer exist today, it did not then and does not now describe homosexuals nor homosexuality but rather a wrong form of worship belonging to an older and at the time a rival religion.

          1. I meant orgiastic

          2. What’s your point Pavlos? That we should protect belief systems that wish to destroy us? Judaism, as well as other monotheistic beliefs have been used to kill, torture and imprison same sex lovers since their inception. READ YOUR HISTORY. Monotheism is homophobic wether you like that fact or not. Always was, still is, and always will be. Why do you defend homophobes belief systems? Do you think your theological arguments are going to have more power than the rabbi’s?

          3. I think he’s more pointing out the stupidness of these groups who use religion as an excuse for the bigoted views, I think

        2. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2011, 9:34pm

          The soonest theism is a distant memory in mankinds mind the better. Religion has been the bane of mankind for too long…five thousand years too long.

          1. @eddy two
            who wrote, “What’s your point Pavlos?”

            I was responding to this earlier comment you wrote,

            “Well he’s right. It does say that homosexuality is a abomination in the torah”

            I disagree and I gave my reasons for it.

          2. @Paddyswurds

            You could argue politics have been the bane of mankind for too long also – should we look for anarchy?

            Yes there are many bad aspects of religion – but to scape goat all religion on personal experience or historical events is similar to Pepa suggesting all child protection staff are paedophiles

        3. @Eddy Two

          Their interpretation of theology and use of exegesis and hermaneutics does not make their interpretation correct.

          I don’t hold any religious views but I do recognise that neither the torah or the new testament are specifically anti homosexuality (except in particular circumstances).

          Ridiculing a belief structure on the basis of how others interpret it is fatuous. Ridicule those who misinterpret by all means – but don’t give the texts false meaning on the basis of what others say about them.

          I don’t believe those texts are important in my everyday life but I also recognise that they do not say what some claim they do (on both sides of the debate)

    2. burningworm 7 Jun 2011, 6:45am

      It all depends if you read it literally or allegorically.

      Judaism is mysticism not only rigid code.

    3. Jock S. Trap 7 Jun 2011, 9:35am

      Religion isn’t about God, it’s about over inflated male ego’s who use a book or/and someone else to blame for their excuses for bigotry and discrimination.
      It allows (or so they think) these people to carry on with their lives, interfering, hating, discriminating but with the knowledge they can just blame all else but themselves.
      I believe had this been anything else their would be a term for it…
      What makes these people any different?

      1. @Jock

        I do have some sympathy with what you say …

        When I used to have a faith, I used to hate the phrase religion because of the negativity of it and the fact that it was about power base and control for many of those involved … I regarded my faith as personal and individual …

        I no longer have it and choose to live without it but recognise that some people have faith – others participate in religion

  3. “They aren’t people like everyone else.” Sound a lot like a one Mr Adolf Hitler said before the final solution. You think that they would have learnt from history how wrong it is to subjugate a minority.

  4. Ze’ev says the event ‘ was an insult to Muslims and traditional Jews who obey commandments.’ The saddest thing I have read for a long time – it takes opposition to gays to publicly unite Jews and Muslims in Israel.

    1. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2011, 9:37pm

      @John F…
      …suddenly a Jew cares about a Muslim? Yeah right!

      1. Yes, the Arab peasants are an occupying presence in Israel. I don’t want them acknowledged at all.

        This is only a minor blip on a liberal and progressive country’s landscape.

        Israel is a beacon of light in the backward slime that is the middle east.

        1. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2011, 10:17pm

          …….I presume your comment is meant to be ironic. If not , Israel a beacon of light, Really? Seems to me they have learned a great deal from the Holocaust and are now upstaging H!tler in Palestine, which they illegaly occuoupied in 1945. They are the occupying force and to say otherwise is to be disingenious in the extreme. The Jews were, according to their own holy fiction, condemmed to wander the Earth nationless for eternity. The Americans should let them have North Dakota.

          1. No. The Palestinians are a historically new and unpleasant addition to the area, so named as Palestine by the Romans to spite the indigenous Jews. The name was finally appropriated by the British, but mispronounced by the dumb Arabs as ‘Falastin’. The area only become important AFTER the Jews had rightfully re-claimed it as theirs (in contrast to Muslims, who just take anything and everything that they see fit), and Jerusalem in particular (which didn’t even rank in the top 5 of murky Mohammed’s ‘special places’) only became something to kill and die for after the Israelis had made into a civilised and beautiful place. Islam is all about free (and bloody) rides on the backs and assets of others.

          2. And I have huge sympathy for what the native Irish people of Ireland have had to put up with from the British. But the parallel is not to be found in Israel. An obvious parallel is the Muslim Turkish invasion, occupation and division of Cyprus in and since 1974. And in all those other countries where minarets sprang up like mushrooms, and finally were used as the headquarters for the crushing and conversion of the local population. I’d like to think that Muslims are getting a taste of their own medicine in Israel… but it simply wasn’t theirs to begin with. They want it because Jews had it, and their evil book tells them to hate and kill jews. You can’t claim a state after its original owners have taken it back. Go to Egypt or Syria, or any of those other lovely Islam-led places.

          3. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2011, 11:42pm

            …..You are wrong historically. Judaea was a small province of ancient Palestine which was established around 2500 BC and which consisted of parts of Scythia, Parthia and Arabia, and was only a small part of Sinai which also was a small province of Palestine. You should not rely on modern Israeli history and historians for your info as they have vested interests and have a propensity to alter history to suit their agenda..

          4. @Bitch They want it because Jews had it, and their evil book tells them to hate and kill jews.- Funny Islam excepts Judaism as a true religion meaning they believe that the Jewish people are correct in there teaching they just believe that there is more than just the old testament.

      2. Nice bit of antisemitism, classy

        1. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2011, 10:57pm

          ……..for your information the Palestinians are also Semites, but of course that doesn’t suit your agenda….classy!

          1. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2011, 11:13pm

            …of course in this context by Jews one means Israelis, as jews in Europe and the US are to a large extent in opposition to the treatment being meted out by the opressesor Israelis to the Palestinians in their own country.Very much the same as the British done to the Irish for 800 years until the Irish finally defeated them in 1922 with the help of the Irish in the US and Canada..

          2. My agenda? Wow conspiracy theorist much.
            1) There are few similarities between the current middle east situation and the situation involving Britain and ireland.
            2) It is wrong to say “the British” oppressed the irish, elites in both countries for many many years spent a long time oppressing their own and others people. I doubt the 19th century factory worker in manchester cared a great deal about keeping ireland as a british colony.
            3) It is anti semitic and racist to accuse a whole people of doing something. Not every israeli is oppressing palestinians.

            Have you ever been to tel aviv? Huge arab and jewish communities, people live side by side, and vibrant lgbt community.

          3. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2011, 11:59pm

            ….i presume you mean those factory workers being fed by the thousands of tons of food being shipped out of Ireland to England by absentee English landlords while the indiginous Irish starved to death in their millions in a false famine because they were forced to live on potatos which failed because of the blight. The irish elite had long since fled in what is known as the Flight of the Earls. Don’t presume to argue Irish history with an Irishman…you’ll lose.

            Also you are being pedantic. You know well i mean the Israeli government altho they are being supported by illegal settlers.

          4. You clearly dont know history.
            Catholic church and business elite in Ireland consistently worked against the interest of their fellow irishman.

            The factory worker in Manchester, could not vote, were killed when they protested.
            When groups like the chartists which grew out of catholic emancipation, who represented the british working classes and were extremely sympathetic to irish independence, attempted to gain control from British elites, they were quashed and murdered or imprisoned.

            It shows a real lack of proper historical knowledge, and a reliance on bigoted conspiracy theories to put the blame on the irish famine on the majority of the British population.

  5. In jerusalem a few months ago conservative rabbi’s, Mullahs and Priests all took a untied stance against gays. The only thing such people ever agree on.

    Its worth noting that reform and liberal judaism (very popular forms of judaism) and secular jews are quite pro lgbt.

    Whereas the orthodox conservatives (who are also the ones who have been known to deny the holocaust) are the ones opposed to it.

    Conservatives jews united with mullahs in hate, charming.

    1. What you say is quite true. But it is important to note that the ultra-Orthodox in Israel (and in the Diaspora) seen by the rest of the world as the face of ‘regular’ Jews and therefore ‘traditional’ only originated in a sects which evolved from the 1850s (where their style of clothing comes from) and are only 7% of the population in both…so very much a minority SMALLER than the GLBT minority they oppose so virulently!

  6. Religious bigots claim that someone else’s right to live their own lives is an affront to their right to be religious bigots. In other news: water discovered to run downhill.

  7. Religion is a plague on humanity

    1. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2011, 10:58pm

      Hear, Hear!

  8. Ok,as a gay christian,I can only speak from my point of you,knowing next to diddly-squat about Judaism.But I reconcile my christian belief with my homosexuality by being firmly of the opinion that the ‘good book’ has been interpreted by power-crazed individuals to keep the masses in check! Simplistic,naive? Perhaps,but it works for me! I talk to God in my way,& he aint smote me yet!

    1. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2011, 10:26pm

      A gay xtian. Isn’t that an oxymoron.?? The “good book” and i mean all “good books” are a fiction passed down orally from ignorant elders of fearful tribes, wandering the deserts of Egypt and Palestine 4 to 5000 years ago, who wished to dominate and control their people. Nothing more or less and it defies logic, rationality and belief that you, in the 21st century still are in thrall to such rubbish.

      1. Gay Christian isn’t an oxymoron but it can be a very challenging and mostly hostile culture to find yourself born into.

        I’m a secular atheist today but I was raised in a Christian family and had a Christian education up until high school so it was almost total immersion until I left home and religion FREEDOM!!! no regrets,

        I have rarely gone back home and even then never for more than a few days, I have a sister who continually moves through various US evangelical style churches and who has picked up all the unpleasant US style anti-gay rhetoric and ideas, there is no reasoning with her.

        It is not so difficult to understand how but it is difficult to understand why anyone gay or straight who was not raised in a Christian family would get caught up in that culture if they weren’t born into it.

        1. Paddyswurds 7 Jun 2011, 10:57am

          ….Two points i can’t get my head round….How is Gay Christian not an oxymoron and a particularly sad one at that,
          Secondly, What exactly is a Secular Atheist?Aren’t you trying to equate atheism with theism? Explain please.
          ….Isn’t Gay Christian and Gay Catholic one and the same?. I was raised as a Catholic and was told I was a Christian. Fortunately I saw the “light” at 15 and sought freedom of thought, hence my atheism.

          1. While the orthodox Christian view of homosexuality is institutionally anti-gay, some Christians, including some gay Christians, say It is wrong to proclaim the biblical view of homosexuality since there is none.
            There is nothing in biblical scripture that describes or condemns homosexuality while various other acts that certainly are condemned are wrongly interpreted as “homosexual practice” from ritual sexual worship, violent humiliating rape, sexual abuse of children through to sexual abuse of animals, obviously none describe homosexuality per se.
            It is anachronistic when a 19th Century word homosexual is used to interpret ancient scripture.

            As an atheist I am free of belief in a God or gods.
            As a secularist I support separation of State from religion while I support the individuals right to religious freedom, to believe and worship as one sees fit within the law and without impinging upon the rights of others, similarly I support the individuals right to freedom from religion.

      2. Paddy, “Gay Christian” is indeed one of the saddest oxymorons of modern life, – the only arguably sadder one is “gay catholic”…

        1. @Harry57

          No there are plenty of christians who are gay … I know many who are very happy

          I find the most sad people are those who are determined to ridicule everyone of faith …

          Those who have some balance in their lives and are prepared to acknowledge others experiences are more open minded and willing to experience happiness.

          Usually such attacks are borne out of bitterness.

          I like my gay christian friends – I do not share their faith, but most of them are happy

      3. No Paddyswurds, a gay christian is not an oxymoron.

        You may accuse others of having agenda’s – but your belittling and presumptious commentary about everything Christian (and to a lesser extent other religions) being negative is infantile, simplistic and honestly boring. It is also biased, fails to consider wider issues and very much centred on your personal experiences which may not be relevant to others.

    2. Simplistic and naive, Paul, yes. Also self evidently deluded – voices in your mind!. But that is your business. What is sadly all of our business is that by consorting with the Christian churches you are consorting with the enemy. I would like to think that your conscience pricks you somewhat about your being part of an organisation that is inherently homophobic.

      1. you can’t have a side against side issue with faith you must merely tackle people on there individual beliefs to do otherwise is bigoted and is as bad as saying all gays are against the church

        1. I disagree strongly. It’s not a matter of individual faith but a matter of the institutional support these deluded individuals give to the bigoted individuals. For example, a catholic wasting his or her time at mass (cookies becoming Christ – I ask you!) is not just indulging in his or her personal delusions but making a political statement of adherence to a seriously homophobic institution and deserves to be called out on that.

        2. “deluded individuals give to the bigoted institutions” – I should have said.

  9. and,of course,I meant ‘view’ as in point of view,lol,not you,as in point of you! time for my meds!

  10. burningworm 7 Jun 2011, 6:43am

    Where is the bridge of unity for gay Palestinian’s?

  11. Jock S. Trap 7 Jun 2011, 8:06am

    So one man gets involved with Gay Pride Month and his ‘clan’ get up in arms and all bigotted on his ass.
    Again we are only hearing one side of it.
    I mean do they all agree or is yet again a case of even if some do, they stay silent?
    This kind of nasty religion is poisionous because it affects most regardless of if they agree or not.
    Only those decent ones speak out but not usually reported on and many, many of those that may agree or at don’t mind this mans involvement will stay silent just to save face.

  12. Yet again the true face of religion – a face of toxic bigotry and hatred.

    No wonder Israel will never be at peace.

    The cancerous cults will prevent that.

    As for this bigot’s comment:

    ““They aren’t people like everyone else.”

    So what is his Final Solution I wonder?

  13. Let’s face it, orthodox religion is a bastion for male heterosexual ‘exclusive’ propaganda! It must and will be destroyed!

  14. Dan Filson 7 Jun 2011, 11:42am

    Deputy Education Minister Menahem Eliezer Moses said: “They aren’t people like everyone else.” Why did he not call them untermenschen, make them wear pink triangles and confine them in concentration camps?
    Credit to the Knesset speaker for a first move towards a more sensible approach to gay pride. Now for the neighbouring countries also, and for Arab and Israelis to march on Gay Pride together.

  15. “They aren’t people like everyone else”?

  16. Perry Howell 7 Jun 2011, 2:36pm

    Judaism exists to honour God. If God is benevolent, loving and inclusive, then Judaism must be too. If either is not, why not rebel against them? Why identify with something that is not?

    That member of the knesset is the only real Jew there, including the ‘orthodox’ who have ritual but closed hearts.

    1. He is not the only one: remember that the party mentioned only has 5 Knesset members (MKs) in a 120 member parliament.

      When a terrorist bombing targeted a gay youth meeting in a popular cafe, the Prime Minister stood up in the Knesst and stated that violence against ANY citizen is unacceptable and that gays and lesbians are fully protected under the Basic Laws and an integral part of the Israeli community.

      That was Netanyahu, by the way. Even Livni went to and spoke at Pride celebrations in Tel Aviv. The religious parties are small, but virulent. They hate all who don’t share their views…which is 93% of the Israeli public.

  17. It is important to remember that religious faith is a mental illness. The Jew who spouted forth such evil should be incarcerated in a lunatic asylum

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