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Kirk leaders believe more Scots ministers will come out following last week’s vote to allow gay clergy

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  1. Jock S. Trap 30 May 2011, 2:55pm

    Would be better for humanity.
    Although an approximate 104,300 bigots set to leave over this decision and what?
    Off to the Catholics?
    And because of acceptence of Gays/Lesbians in a Faith.
    Says it all really that people can be so small minded and discriminating.
    Good Riddance.

    1. Jock S Trap

      Seems a very exact figure to be an estimate – where did you get that from?

      1. Red Gosans 30 May 2011, 4:39pm

        Jock got the numbers from the article itself. :) “It was also said that up to 4,300 ministers, elders, deacons and key parishioners could leave the Kirk along with 100,000 parishioners over this decision.”

        1. Jock S. Trap 31 May 2011, 9:05am

          Of course it would have been nice to have had an approximate to how many parishioners Kirk actually had to balance this out, to separate the open minded from the closed.

          1. concerned resident E3 31 May 2011, 2:03pm

            there are 1,200 congregations with a total of 489,000 members. So it is a fairly sizeable bloc though it should be noted that it is not dissimilar in size to the numbers who came in from the UFC. There were also a group who said they would split from the church if gay people were excluded from the ministry. The CofS is a democratic church that abides by the majority decisions of its membership so posturing like this in advance of a vote has to be seen in that context – i.e. not everyone who said they would walk out actually will.

          2. Jock S. Trap 31 May 2011, 3:56pm

            Ok so a fair size.
            So given as you say not all will leave like they suggest I would imagine quite a few would ‘join’ this group as a result from this decision, so it could just be that no notable difference is made, except better quality of parishioner.

    2. jamestoronto 30 May 2011, 8:52pm

      Jock S. Trap (I love it) – thanks for the comment about Canada the other day. Much appreciated since so few out there even know where or what Canada is.. We still have a way to go here but we continue with the battle. Bigotry and homophobia sadly are diseases shared by some in every country. We have some very heavy-duty anti-hate laws in Canada that include speech and incitement to hate provisions. Free speech and hate mongering do NOT go hand in hand here.

      Anyway thanks and I always like your thoughts on what is happening.

      James

      1. katie Murphy - ex catholic family 30 May 2011, 9:38pm

        all hate speech about gays should be outlawed. The catholic priests and hierarchy etc would have to have their tongues cut out to comply

        Wish we had those laws in the USA. We could put another 100,000 ministers and priests in the prisons, or use them to clean up the roads, shovel snow, sandbag against flooding.

        Make them usefull instead of a drag on our society.

        1. Jock S. Trap 31 May 2011, 9:13am

          I guess it would feel good to finally see Them get a taster of how they treat us for a change.

      2. Jock S. Trap 31 May 2011, 9:12am

        No worries jamestoronto, I love Canada it’s handy for that little train ride through to Italy….. just kiddin!! :)
        Canada is my favourite country outside the UK and one my Partner and I visit often and have talked about immigrating to as we do always struggle to come home.
        It’s a sad fact but yes your right every country has it’s bigots but Canada is far more advanced in that it covers marriage so closer to full Equality which means closer to slamming down on bigots as they now become the minority themselves.

  2. Oh who cares?

    So long as the church is damaged by the admission of gay clergy then I am happy.

    Anythingt that reduces the power and influence of these primitve, cultish beliefs is something to be happy about.

    1. Clearly not you, David

      But many people both gay and not care that religious groups engage and evolve to ensure equality rights are fulfilled – it may be irrelevant to you but then some issues that are of primary importance to you, others may have no interest in whatsoever

      1. Jock S. Trap 31 May 2011, 9:15am

        Trouble is, although I accept that Some in religion are changing I am also well aware that if we wait for the Church and religions to catch up with the LGBT community and Equality we could be waiting another 2,000 years.

        1. Granted but that doesnt mean we shouldnt welcome those that do change

    2. David, I think you take a very simplistic and dismissive view of what the church means to many people. I grew up in the Church of Scotland and know that a lot of the daily work of it’s ministers and elders is caring for the vulnerable, deprived and terminally Ill – including my own mother in her last few months of life. The minister was also there in the night when my father had a fatal brain haemorrhage. To see religion only as a source of judgement is to see only one side of the coin in a society where caring is not that fashionable. As a gay man I applaud the progressive and humane decision of the Kirk.

      1. Jock S. Trap 31 May 2011, 9:19am

        Ok but it’s not necessarily religion that makes people loving and caring, that kindness of society is already there.

  3. If every gay catholic priest, monk or nun came out, the roman cult would have to shut down altogether. That’s a good thing too!

    1. katie Murphy - ex catholic family 30 May 2011, 9:35pm

      Maybe the Muslims will remember that during 900-1500AD the christian crusades ravaged north africa, the middle east, and muslim parts of spain.

      And christian in those days meant catholic. Perhaps the Muslims will do us a favor re the VAtican – the longest lived and most brutal and vicious monster in the west. Upwards of 40 million muslims were mass murdered. the civilization at that time that was the leading civilization in the world.

      BTW, arabic numerals, algebra (an arab word) etc – they gave the world the mathematics on which most sscientific progress has been based.

      What did the catholic church give us besides hitler, the hatred of the Jews which he leveraged to gain power and 50 million died. the inquisition, which didn’t end until the 1830s in spain, where books wwere burned, anyone who disagreed with the church was burned at the stake, imprisoned, boiled alivve in oil etc etc.

      And of course the endless hidden molestation of children.

  4. Practising gay as opposed to celibate.

    Many Christians who are in complete denial of human nature believe that the only option for people of homosexual orientation is to pretend to be straight or to be celibate..certainly if they want to spend eternity bored to death in Heaven with a God who hates you for the way you really are.
    (Obviously I don’t believe in God nor that it made anything).

    .

    1. Bored stupid perhaps would have made more sense, presumably they would already be dead if they were in proverbial heaven.

  5. Red Gosans 30 May 2011, 4:45pm

    Well done to the Kirk leaders, voting for equal treatment regarding allowing LGBT clergy! People need to understand that times are changing – for the better – and that those who insist on propagating medieval beliefs and prejudices will be left behind. The church will be a much better place without those 104,300 haters.

  6. Sorry Jock – Thanks Red

    I hadn’t done the (very simplistic) maths

    100,000 seems a large number of parishioners for a church of the size of the Church of Scotland

  7. What does come out as gay mean? as Pavlos above said does it mean a person who is still prevented from having sex with his long term partner…being forced to be celibate while straight gay can have sex with their wives isn’t my idea of being out and free to practice as a gay minister..

    This was an interesting artilce yesterday on radio 4 and it goes on about gay clergy/celibacy/cps/gay marriage etc

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b011j39j#

    - from 37 mins onwards

  8. Rich (original) 30 May 2011, 7:15pm

    Scott Rennie have really debilic face…. In fact, this individual is a sick and need to reduce his weight by controlling his appetite and food consumption.

    1. jamestoronto 30 May 2011, 8:57pm

      WHO ARE YOU? And where did you learn anything? Any thing at all. Language, ethics, comparative religions – or all these words too big for you. Do yourself and everyone here a huge favour and log off of this site forever.

      1. Its not a “who” questions, it a “what” question – as in what is he? There are things lying on their backs decomposing in ponds that have more intellect, humanity, and decency that this rich-creature.

    2. Jock S. Trap 31 May 2011, 10:23am

      What a shallow person you are Bitch Rich.
      You always seem to be poking your ugly mug in where it doesn’t concern you.
      What has his appearance got to do with you, he already has a committed partner he Loves.
      What has him being Gay got to do with you, he already has a committed partner he Loves.
      So all you’re about is Hatred for Hatred sake.
      The irony is you seem to think thats healthy, can’t see your own Evil eh?
      I beg to differ, you lonely, lonely fellow.

  9. Rich (original) 30 May 2011, 7:19pm

    Hopefully, religious people of Scottland will become Muslims, and the Kirk will disappeared.

    1. Hopefully many Muslim countries will awaken to their freedoms and make their own decisions about their faith and personal actions rather than live in repressed conditions that allow them no freedom or rights

    2. Hopefully hate preaching nutcases like you Rich, will disappear.
      .
      Do you really have nowt else to do apart from posting dross on LGBT forums?
      .
      Clearly you’re having some difficulty overcoming your sexual persuasions.

    3. Jock S. Trap 31 May 2011, 10:26am

      Your about as much Muslim as Scottish Whiskey.

    4. Especially for you…
      Gay Imaam.
      South African Muhsin Hendricks is an Islamic cleric and a gay man.

      He runs a foundation called The Inner Circle, which helps Muslims, who are struggling to accept their sexuality. He has come to the Netherlands to spread a simple messageIt’s okay to be Muslim and gay
      http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/gay-imam-spreads-message-homosexuality-not-sinful

  10. News just in: water is wet.

  11. jamestoronto 30 May 2011, 8:33pm

    Not a big fan of religion. Nor, am I in any way interested in American football. But if some quarterback in the US came out and then continued to play, I would stand up and cheer “Go For it!”

    ANYTIME. ANYWHERE! ANY TYPE OF BARRIER FALLING IS GOOD. We should all cheer. That is one less barrier the ones that follow us will even have to think about. I think most of us have heard the riddle “if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it did it make a noise?” My wise grandfather counter-asked “How do you know it even fell?” – “It’s on the ground and look at all the smaller trees it took down” – “Well, obviously something happened here, so cares whether there was noise or not. And if there was a noise, would anyone remember exactly what it sounded like.. All we know is that tree fell and took quite a few others with it.”

    1. Well said James

      We should welcome any step (even if it is not as far as we would like or if we have hesitancy in accepting it because of prior behaviour by groups that are making the step forward)

    2. katie Murphy - ex catholic family 30 May 2011, 9:28pm

      Good man you are. Of course you live in Canada. I , though a str8 married man, am embarrassed to admit i live in the HHSA – the Homophobic Hate States of AmeriKKKa.

  12. katie Murphy - ex catholic family 30 May 2011, 9:26pm

    Good riddance to them. Tell them not to let the door hit them in the back where the good Lord split them.

    Yeh, they might join the catholic church of the endless hidden molestation of children. Their minds are aalready molested with irrational religious hatred so they should fit in.

    http://www.catholicarrogance.org

    http://www.nobeliefs.com/SIZAN.htm
    be sure to reverse the order of the letters in capitals in this url

  13. Rich (original) 31 May 2011, 3:44am

    Is believe in Allah is wrong? Never!
    Is believe in Allah’ Revelation, the Holy Koran, is wrong? Never!
    Is believe that homosexuality is a sin is wrong? Never!
    If so, then any Muslim, who condemning homosexuals, couldn’t be a bigot.

    There are over 1,570,000,000 Muslims in the world who do condemning homosexuals. They couldn’t be wrong in their Faith and their rejection of homosexuals in the world, regardless their national origin, is RIGHTEOUS.

    1. Every human being is free to believe in a deity, you know that and so do I.

      The fact remains that nobody really knows what percentage of believers actually believe everything that is written in so-called divine scriptures, you know that and so do I.

      For example, it is written in the Koran that the sun sets in a puddle of mud in the west. You know that’s not true and so do I.
      So if every word in the Koran is spoken by Allah… you can reach your own conclusion, right?

      Also, do you really believe that you speak for 1,570,000,000 people?????

      On the off-chance that you really know these people and what they really believe, how can you imply that there are no Gay Muslims when you know there are…. and so do I.

      1. Do not feed the troll.

        1. You’re right, ofc.

      2. Rich (original) 31 May 2011, 1:42pm

        “Gay” Muslim is non-existed. Muslim never can be a homosexual pervert. Rejection of Allah’s Order means only one thing – disobeying Allah’s Order, and punishment for this is death. That’s simple. No matter how someone dislike Islam, its TRUTH is undeniable.

        1. Gay Imaam.
          South African Muhsin Hendricks is an Islamic cleric and a gay man.

          He runs a foundation called The Inner Circle, which helps Muslims, who are struggling to accept their sexuality. He has come to the Netherlands to spread a simple messageIt’s okay to be Muslim and gay
          http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/gay-imam-spreads-message-homosexuality-not-sinful

          1. Thank you Muhsin Hendricks.

            See also the movie “A Jihad for Love” by Parvez Sharma :

            http://www.ajihadforlove.com/home.html

        2. What exactly is immoral about homosexuality?

        3. I deny all you say Rich because every statement you have said is WRONG

    2. Rich (unoriginal)
      Seeing as you asked, let’s say holding any of those beliefs is completely delusional and 100% pointless, nothing you mention above makes life better for one single person.

      I fear your brain has been rotted by superstitious belief.

      If you believe seagulls are sinful it doesn’t make them go away or change into pelicans, nor does it improve your life or the life of seagulls and it’s the same with homosexuals…
      if you believe homosexuality is a sin it doesn’t make homosexuals go away or change into heterosexuals nor does it make life any better for you or for homosexuals.

      If you are calling to eliminate homosexuals then you would be inciting others to hatred and genocide.

      1. Right on. Good analogy.

        Freedom of Speech is one thing; inciting others to hatred is another….. and constructive criticism yet another.

      2. Rich (original) 31 May 2011, 2:04pm

        Homosexual perversion is a terrible sexual choice for any person in the world. One day or another homosexuals will be removed from the face of Earth, regardless how you or others will call such removal. How and when the removal will be implemented is unimportant at the current time. But believe in the necessity of such removal is essential for every Muslim because such believe is in accordance with Allah’ Will, and that the essence of Islam.

        As for the genocide, its related to extermination of a certain nation or race. Islam is internaitonal and interracial, and have nothing to do with genocide. If you would accuse any Muslim of a genocide, you would be deluded or slanderous. That’s could be determined by the Islamic court. We, Muslims, do not recognize any unislamic court in the world and all unislamic claims are baseless for any Muslim in the world.

        1. Gay Imaam.
          South African Muhsin Hendricks is an Islamic cleric and a gay man.

          http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/gay-imam-spreads-message-homosexuality-not-sinful

        2. Rich, so should all contributions by gay artists, intellectuals and scientists to many societies in the world, be systematically removed, and banished without trace?

        3. What exactly is morally wrong with homosexuality?

        4. @Rich

          Homosexuality is neither a perversion nor is it a choice.

          One day or another there will be equality and bigots like you will be consigned to the history books or silenced for your intransigent and damaging actions and words.

          There is a right to freedom of speech but with freedoms come responsibilities and you have no idea or concept of exercising responsibility.

          Rich your words clearly demonstrate that you (as an individual) endorse the concept of genocide of homosexuals – your outdated, irrelevant and useless views are fuelled by hatred, intolerance and possibly mental illness.

          The reality is that religious courts are impotent because no court should be based on deviant religious view points.l

          1. well yes.. homophobia is a mental illness.

    3. Jock S. Trap 31 May 2011, 10:29am

      Tell someone who actually Cares, Bitch Rich!

    4. @Rich(orginal)
      .
      Why do you venerate Mohammed, i.e the “Paedophile Prophet” ?
      .
      Why do you venerate a pervert
      .
      Perhaps you are a pevert yourself?

      1. @Rich (orginal)
        .
        If Allah is never wrong, are you saying that child sexual abuse is ok?

        1. homosexuals aren’t perverts

  14. I don’t think there will be schism.

    I assume all religious organisations will have to accommodate the equality act to some degree along the line.

    The Kirk has faced up to reality and had a proper open and transparent debate on the subject – they are now even going forward with plans for church liturgy for same sex partnerships.

    1. Yet there are rallying cries all over the internet by various religious org/denominations to make as watertight as possible the regulations to avoid them doing the most simplistic of things as allowing the registration of “secualar!!” civil partnerships on religious premises …I wonder how that consultation is taking place, my impression was that it was totally geared up in favour of religious org to continue not only discirminating against gays but also to prevent any dissent within the lower ranks of the denominations …no dissenting church, minister will be able to do a CP in their church without the express ok of the head. I’d love there to be schisms in the church but I don’t think the govt should be writing regs/laws such as is happening in this change to prevent them from happenning. The govt should not be ruling out religious freedom for the lower ranks of the church by putting this expressly in the law (as is happenning in this change), it’s ludicrous!

  15. They will all be out of the ‘religious’ closet soon! Lol There will be a parting of the waters like the ‘biblical’ Red Sea from the rush and that will be just the ‘married’ ones! Lol

  16. Why are you mugs replying to rich. these comments are pointless no insight just childish insults with no wit. He’s won cause some good comments will be lost is all that crap

    1. PN is now removing his comments on other threads….

    2. “Why are you mugs replying to rich. these comments are pointless no insight just childish insults with no wit. He’s won cause some good comments will be lost is all that crap”
      .
      I disagree. let the world see what sort of homophobia LGBT people are up against, some times on a daily basis.
      .
      People might think twice, when they fall into the malaise of thinking there is no homopbia any more.
      .
      Rich, and all the other many trolls who post homophobic comments on PN, are testimony to the abuse we continue to face. By engaging with, and challenging their homopbia, we learn more about their warp and childish minds.

      1. I disagree there are plenty of other sites where you can have that kind of discussion. This is a serious news site and this constant bitching is distracting from some useful discussions. Anti gay attitudes are dangerous and if you sink to their level you become like them. For all we know rich could be a BNP/EDL troll trying to stir up hated against muslims. There is no way of verifying who he is. He should be banned

        1. I agree, that a verification system is needed on Pink News. I wonder if this might prevent the usual Trolls from being so brazen, and thinking that they can spin undetected, their webs of unfettered homophobic abuse and harrassment. Perhaps we should put this idea to pinknews again?

          1. Yes Pink news why dont you use disqus or something its free and you get an idea of who is posting http://www.disqus.com

  17. Rich (original) 31 May 2011, 2:13pm

    Violation of right on freedom of opinion is fascism, and homosexuals on this site just proved this fact in relation to my commentaries.

    1. Islam is crap. It makes Christianity seem docile in comparison.

    2. Rich, so are you saying in relation to freedom and rights, that a gay couple would be able to attend your mosque?; just like we allow you to comment on this site unfettered?

    3. Personally Rich I don’t think you’d know true facism if it goosestepped up to your front door wearing a swastika armband and beat you up with a baseball bat.
      Your definition of facism is being moderated when you constantly spew homophobic invective at gay people on their own news website. Well poor oppressed you, that must really infringe on your everyday life.
      You might have to take up a new hobby to fill the empty hours.

    4. “Male-to-male sexual behaviour has gone on for centuries and has often been celebrated in the art and literature,” Sharma said. “It has also been allowed to go on with tacit approval of the authorities and often support in the courts. There’s a long history of homosexuality in the Islamic countries.”
      http://www.al-bab.com/arab/articles/text/gt_may2007.htm

      1. In 9th century Baghdad, the gay Muslim poet Abu Nuwas wrote tons of erotic verse praising the love of wine and boys.

    5. Jock S. Trap 1 Jun 2011, 10:09am

      Here’s hoping it’s bye bye to Bitch Rich!

    6. @Rich – your opinions are crap and you are a homophobic loser

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