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US Presbyterian church votes to allow gay ministers

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  1. Good to know that the Presbyterians have seen sense.

    The Unitarian and Unitarian Universalist churches have been welcoming gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender ministers since 1977.

    http://www.unitarian.org.uk/pdfs/WhereWeStand.pdf

    1. welcoming or tolerating?

      1. Jock S. Trap 11 May 2011, 4:59pm

        Unitarians are supporters of Equal Marriage James!

        1. Over the last few years I decided that I’m am an atheist. I can’t stand religion

          1. Jock S. Trap 12 May 2011, 11:35am

            Me too James! but I do realise that there are some who are supportive of Gay Rights and Equal Marriage.
            Certainly it’s a fair arguement to say that quite possibly without groups like the Unitarians, Liberal Jews, Reform Jews, Quakers etc the question of Equal Marriage wouldn’t even be on the table.
            It’s with the help of these groups that wish to perform such ceremonies that we have a creditable fight towards this piece of Equality.

    2. Unitarians have long been supporters of LGBT rights

      I hope Presbyterians prove to be so too

      I suspect the debate is going to go on and on and on though …

      I suspect there will be more strident people such as Stephen Green who need educating as to real life

    3. Add in the USA. Evangelical Lutherans, New Light presbyterians, Most Episcopals (Cof E here), United churches of Christ (United church of Canada which made gay marriag e happen there), Quakers, Jewish Reform and some conservatives, MCC, etc

      To the blowtorch with the catholic Godfather of Pedophilia church, the southern baptsists who gave us slavery, and their similar brethren.

  2. gay christian are like gay tories

    1. They do exist …. both of them …. as much as it surprised me

  3. I quit the Pres church in 1977 after they excluded gays on this issue. Progress is slow indeed. I’ve moved on and deconverted to atheism.

  4. No god = no devil. Being an atheist suits me just fine

  5. The subject of homosexuality is a difficult topic to talk about, as a heterosexual catholic, but I speak with friendship in my heart. I think the reason why the church advises against yeilding to this impulse is because she speaks out of a profound love of humankind and of God. She warns humans not to anger God with implacaple disobedience whilst at the same time fully understanding the trial or rather the cross which it is to resist this urge. As for everyone else it requires heroism to resist that which is pleasing to ourselves but displeasing to God.

    1. Yeah, well when you can get god down here to say that for his/her/its-self then I’ll believe you. I chose to go with Occam’s Razor:- in a bible of contradictions and silly stories about talking snakes, when one uses quotes against gay people, it usually is a case of finding the “right” passage to validate ones bigotry.

      Besides, if you think this, by all means do, but why the need to ram it down everyone’s throat? Not everyone need you brand of “petulant god” religion forced upon them. Do gay people affect you? No. Do their lives and their happiness impact on your happiness? No. Do you need to be here spouting this pseudo-dogmatic nonsense? No.

      What do you think the conclusion here is, then?

      1. hi, but dont you think, the gay issue is being ramed down churchs throats, when many gay people seem to be affect over the fact that they cant be preachers. also what are the contradictions in the bible?

        1. Jock S. Trap 12 May 2011, 9:37am

          Gay people don’t go out dictating to others unlike those who force the religious agenda.
          The LGBT community are not second class citizens, we are human beings, born like everyone else but those in a religious lifestyle choose to seperate, enough though we are no different.
          We pay taxes equally, we share most of the same services equally, we vote equally.
          We shouldn’t have to fight to be treated equally, like straight people we should just be treated like human beings.

        2. If you don’t know the contradictions in the bible, then you seriously don’t know what you’re talking about.

          Try at least know you on religion before you insist the rest of us dumb down to follow it.

          http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

      2. Jock S. Trap 12 May 2011, 9:27am

        Well said Will.
        Lets not forget that these Religious texts are written by over inflated male egos who seemed to think they were the only important thinks on the planet.
        They use the texts to discriminate against Women, Black people and the LGBT community… and the rest.
        No good comes from it.
        As the saying goes, It ain’t big, It ain’t clever so stop doing it.
        Live and Let Live.

        1. Hi Mr. S. Trap
          Thank you for replying to my mail. I really am sorry for causing any anger to you or other gays.But the point I was trying to make is that The Church speaks to all people out of concern for their happiness. The pain of exclusion(rejection) is the deepest one, one can feel as a human being. Straight people need the input of gay people in helping us live a purer life, because if gays can resist temptation then they can help straight people resist temptation. This is why God always chooses the most weak to carry out his most powerful works. Again I say we can help each other be heroic.

          1. “This is why God always chooses the most weak to carry out his most powerful works.”

            Indeed. I can see that clearly here.

            How about you mind your own business, and worry less about what you think “god” wants and more time on your own affairs. How patronising and stupid are you to refer to gay relationship as “temptation”. Quite frankly, go get educated – seriously, your religion is clearly strangling your underused intellect.

          2. Jock S. Trap 13 May 2011, 10:14am

            Yet again a religious person blames others for their own feeling.
            The only anger is yours Ronnie, most ‘gays’ are quite upfront and honest about Our feelings, we don’t feel the need to project them onto others.
            The Church may speak out to all people out of concern about their happiness but seriously what has my happiness got to do with the Church?
            I don’t ask for it, I don’t want it and I certainly don’t see why you seem to want to force your religion down our throats.
            Unlike many of those in religion I have my own mind, I make my own decisions and quite frankly don’t really see how me being Gay affect you in any way.
            I don’t know you, have nothing to do with you so how does my happiness in any way become your business?
            I am happily partnered with my soulmate of 18 years, apart from my failing health I am so happy in every way imaginable.
            Can you say the same, I wonder?
            Here’s some advice… Spend more time worrying about your own affairs and let all other worry about theirs.

          3. Jock S. Trap 13 May 2011, 10:14am

            In simple speak that means Butt out of things that don’t concern or affect you.

          4. Jock S. Trap 13 May 2011, 10:16am

            “The pain of exclusion(rejection) is the deepest one, one can feel as a human being.”
            What the blazes are you blithering about man?
            Who the hell is being rejected?
            Me thinks you worry too much!

          5. Jock S. Trap 13 May 2011, 10:17am

            “This is why God always chooses the most weak to carry out his most powerful works. Again I say we can help each other be heroic.”
            OK, how do I put this sensitively?
            Naff Off!
            There that ok?

    2. She warns humans not to anger God” Quote

      I thought God was about love, not anger.

      I know you are a good person but you do not realize how your mind has been warped. the catholic church is all about power, and money and control. Fear of hell and the promise of life everlasting are their main tricks.

      their crimes immemormorable and incomprehensible

      http://www.catholicarrogance.org

  6. When will the Anglican Church follow suit?

    1. Jock S. Trap 12 May 2011, 2:37pm

      Probably the other side of Never.
      Think they’d rather close.
      No lose there me thinks.

    2. Tim Hopkins 13 May 2011, 10:05am

      More directly relevant, what will the sister (presbyterian) Church of Scotland, do?

      In two weeks time the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland will debate the issue of whether to ordain as ministers people who are in same-sex relationships.

      The sister church in the US of the Church of England is the Episcopal Church of the USA – which already has openly gay ministers and bishops who are in same-sex relationships – of course the C of E has not got to that position yet!

      1. to be seen. IMHO it appears that GB is close to changing to gay marriage from CUs, though I dont understand your politics.

        Got to feel sorry for that nice and kind looking man Rowan williams, torn between his past and the world rushing by him.

        Compare his face with that of RATZInger and its a comparison between an old but pleasant looking man and the born again hitler.

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