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England poll: Gay voters back AV, huge drop in Lib Dem support

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  1. “Our poll showed that Scottish voters will give their support to the SNP, which has pledged to hold a consultation on the future of marriage for gay couples.” – so does that mean they are voting for SNP becuase of this? I know I’d probably vote lab next time since I think they would get a majority and could bring about marriage equality, especially since Brown has gone. Can’t see the Tories doing it and can’t see the lib dems exerting enough infuence on them to do it as well which is a bit disappointing.

    1. John, Labour don’t have marriage equality as policy. Of the major parties, the Lib Dems are the only one with this policy. I believe (but am not sure) that marriage laws are devolved in Scotland, so a Lib Dem or Green vote is the best way to see equal marriage up there. I expect to see it across the UK before 2015, but the Scots might beat us to it…

      1. Thanks, if the lib dems get the Tories to actually bring in ME by the next election then I’ll be convinced but they have to actually do this to prove themselves, it’s not that easy to see them being able to achieve this. Labour just has to adopt it as party policy and being a bigger party they could actually bring it in if they were elected. At the moment I’m not convinced we’ll see a change in majority party ruling so Labour has got a good chance next time around especially if the economy still stinks by then…

      2. Correct me if I am wrong, but Labour didn’t have Civil Partnerships as policy before they went ahead and legalised it? I’m not entirely sure, but I don’t remember seeing it there.

        Not that it’s overly important as I imagine the issue will make progress before the next general election. Ed Miliband has come out in support of it, so I can’t imagine the lack of written policy being something that would prevent Labour introducing it (assuming they even got the chance).

        1. What would the policy have been for CPs, didn’t they evolve, first for SS and straights, then an extra bit added for sister and brothers, then straights were dropped from the concept and the sisters and brothers add on thrown out. 4 more yrs of not a postive party polcy from labour on a definite concept isn’t very convincing.

        2. Dave Page 3 May 2011, 5:18pm

          I’m not sure what Labour’s manifesto said, but Civil Partnerships were first introduced to Parliament by the Lib Dem peer Lord Lester in a Private Member’s Bill, which he withdrew at Labour’s request after they said they wanted to draft their own bill. If I remember rightly, Lester’s bill included civil partnerships for non-same-gender couples, which the Labour bill removed.

      3. I cant really understand your politics, but from so much I read, It seems like the parties are in a race to the top – to give gay people marriage instead of second class civil unions. a couple yearss and the battle will be over.

        it would be so nice to have what happened in Portuagal last year happen in GB.

        the RATZInger pope comes to the country to stop gay marriage.

        Hardly has his unholy stench left the country then they gave him his going away present – marriage for gays.

        And I note that very catholci Ireland, just having gotten civil unions without adoption rights – now the people support full marriage by 70% percent.

        1. Basically, the cons and lib dems have 4 yrs to get ME either passed or almost passed. Then I’ll be convinced since I think ME is a major LGBT thumbs up and shows they are serious about iLGBT issues. All parties believe in battling homophobic bullying etc, these are a soft options, gets support from all and basically will always be a problem so they’re always on a winner. Labour has 4 yrs to adopt ME as party policy, make a major speech to say they are going to bring it if they are elected (they are the ones that did bring in CPs – with full rights unlike other countries which are sometime pretty basic!!) and then I’d vote for them.- 4 yrs…it’s going to take this govt almost 2 yrs for them to bring in secular CP to be allowed in some churches!!!!!

          1. Jock S. Trap 4 May 2011, 11:33am

            To be honest until we have Full equality we cannot really effectively tackle homophobic bullying.
            Ok so we can to a degree but until we have full equality people will continue to use the phrase “Yes but you can’t can you” with regards to Equality arguements. So long as that remains, there’ll always be excuses for homophobic bullying.
            When we finally have Equal rights the same as everyone else then homphobic bullying can be tackled with no excuses.

      4. Dave – just noticed this article from the Hebrides News

        “Peter Morrison went against his own party’s policy which is too legalise full homosexual marriage as well as to conduct gay civil partnership ceremonies in churches.”

        How is Scotland going to get gay marriage if a lib dem candidate is going against part policy!

        Indeed I’m not sure how Scotland would get it under labour as well

        “Donald Crichton said: “Marriage was given to be between man and woman and so it should remain.“

        1. Tim Roll-Pickering 8 May 2011, 11:16pm

          Liberal Democrats frequently deviate from their party policy when they feel it’s electorally necessary locally. They are very good at being all things to all people.

          Not that it did Peter Morrison any good – he got 1.8% of the vote.

  2. If Labour does adopt marriage equality as official party policy and I think they will, then this will only put pressure on Cameron to do something about it if he wants to be re-elected. Ideally, marriage equality should be made legal before the election, maybe by year’s end.

  3. Paddyswurds 3 May 2011, 2:08pm

    It’s not quite PR but the best we will get this time round. Better than FPTP anyway.

    1. Dave Page 3 May 2011, 5:37pm

      Indeed. I’m supporting AV because it means that politicians will have to reach out beyond their natural party base – and that includes homophobes, biphobes and transphobes, who are in the minority, having to reach out to ordinary people who largely support LGBT equality.

      It also means the almost total eradication of tactical voting, wherein people are compelled to vote for the least-unpleasant option of two likely winners, or have their vote cast on a no-hoper they really want. AV will mean we get a better idea of what people actually want in their MPs.

      1. Absolutely agree Dave. I voted for AV; FPTP is an all or nothing system. AV is a more sensitive measure of public support. At least with AV you can express a preference if you particularly want to keep a candidate out but without having to vote tactically and use up your one vote. Candidates will have to win broader appeal instead of just getting “enough” votes for their seat. Surely that has to be better for democracy and for political discourse in this country which has gone down the toilet in recent years. Many EU member states seem to do better on some form of PR/AV – less of the school playground politics and more grown up.

        1. Tim Roll-Pickering 8 May 2011, 11:17pm

          Academic now but I’ve never seen fiercer exchanges in a Westminster style parliament than in Australia’s. Which is elected by AV.

  4. Jock S. Trap 3 May 2011, 2:27pm

    A positive poll I guess, though way to many figures and percentages and not just the plan facts so gets a bit tiresome.
    I wouldn’t say that AV was too complicated though as it is straight forward enough but I do think it would lead to disasterous, unstable govenments that would lead to more point scoring for individual parties rather than doing good for the country.
    It’s also naive to think extreme parties wouldn’t do well out of AV either.
    I wonder if AV came how long it would be that governments would have no choice but to listen to the likes of the BNP?
    Also wonder why countries that are using this system are desperate to change this failed process?
    Are we not to learn by others mistakes?
    Still sticking to No to AV but good luck to all.

    1. Dave Page 3 May 2011, 5:21pm

      AV won’t help the BNP. The BNP are an extremist party, who by definition will not get support from >50% of people, even in their strongholds like Burnley. This is why they are campaigning against it.

      1. Agreed , the extremist scare mongering against a yes vote by the no campaigners is a fallacy purely based on their individual goals, i.e. to be first past the post n a seat for life. Av is a stepping stone in the right direction to hopefully becoming a proper democracy with pr . Heres hoping to a yes success on fri. just to see my no campaigning never bothered to help me or any other constituants face.

        1. no campaigning mps face…

        2. Jock S. Trap 4 May 2011, 7:49am

          If AV is so good how come 2 of the 3 countries using it are currently in the process of changing it because it doesn’t work?
          It is a deeply flawed system which will lead to unstable governments as is what has been proved.
          I personally think unstable governments is the last thing we need with all the infighting worse than we get now.
          Plus winning parties will be more interested in self centred deals and not really focusing on governing the country.
          AV campaigning has been flawed from the start.
          The money for this referendum could have been used to fund worthy things but hey it was a deal that was struck with the Tories because if I remember Labour refused to back it.
          Bit like when they dropped the idea when Labour got a landslide in 1997. It’s no wonder the Lib Dems didn’t trust Labour.

      2. Jock S. Trap 4 May 2011, 7:43am

        I’m amazes at the ignorance that the Lib Dems want AV to help minority parties including themselves but then deny it will help All minority parties.
        It seems there is something missing from there argument.
        Of course AV will help minority parties and ALL including the BNP.
        The majority of people will use them as second and thrid votes which mean they will at some point have to be listened to.
        It’s crazy to suggest it wouldn’t.

  5. Tory party is counting on gay voters that are anti muslim and anti immigration, a record number of those in gay community at the moment. Gay voting tory is like turky voting for thanks giving

    1. Jock S. Trap 3 May 2011, 2:57pm

      Actually a lot of the LGBT community voting Tory will be for the same reason most others will vote for them, because they trust David Cameron and George Osborne more with repairing the economy that the likes of Eds Miliballs who got us in this sh!t in the first place.
      Nothing to do with being anti anything.

      1. somehow public didnt trust cameron and osborn enough to run this country hence coalition

        1. That would be because Labour has safe votes from millions of overpaid public sector workers and union memebers, not because the Tories just weren’t popular enough.

          Labour’s plan to get the deficit down was as credible as a chocolate teapot.

          1. what a nonsense

          2. Dave Page 3 May 2011, 5:32pm

            Labour had a plan to get down the deficit? Did they tell anybody what it was? Given that they’d be making £7 of cuts for every £8 the Coalition are making, and still won’t tell us where, I wouldn’t say they have a plan at all!

  6. I dont think anyone give a toss about AV just wait to see from the turn out


    1. perhpas we should make voting compulsory (like Australia) and then we’d actually get what the whole population want. People just aren’t interested unless they are made to get off their butts and actualy put a tick against someone, having 40% of the population decide isn’t representative anyway…

      1. Dave Page 3 May 2011, 4:46pm

        Not sure I support compulsory voting – if people can’t be bothered to vote, I’m not sure their opinion is worth listening to. It’s not exactly difficult to get a postal vote even.

        PS: Australia doesn’t have compulsory voting. You have to turn up at the polling station, but you don’t have to cast a ballot.

        1. Jock S. Trap 4 May 2011, 7:53am

          The problem with compulsory voting is politicans feel they don’t have to listen to minority groups.
          Not that I think the LGBT community is particularly a minority group because I think people are waking up to realise we are just as mainstream as our straight counterparts.
          Also compulsary voting can end up with politicans working less for our vote.
          Personally I have never been loyal to any party, it’s all about who ‘speaks’ to me at the time but I prefer to make them work for my vote.

        2. Dave – you can trash your ballot in Australia yes (very few do) but every Australian has to vote (unless you have a very good reason not to) otherwise you get fined. It works, everyone vote…you get what the whole population voted for (like it or not) not what a small politically minded population voted for. Excluding the majoriy isn’t representative, they just need to be trained to vote …..there is a lot of apathy in the poliitcal system, people don’t think they’re vote will count etc and one of the reasons is that such a small percentage vote.. AV on a small percentage is bollocks…what’s the point.

  7. Stuart Neyton 3 May 2011, 3:11pm

    I’m vote splitting in the councils (1 Green, 1 Labour – there’s only one Green standing here), and voting yes to AV. The results in Canada today just prove how undemocratic FPTP is.

    I think anyone in Scotland should really look at who’s funding the SNP and thus influencing its policy before voting for them.

    The Lib Dem collapse is not the least bit surprising.

    1. Gay, SNP voter and no problem with Brian Soutar’s cash going towards an SNP victory. Alex Salmond knows where his head lies regarding equality and as it goes this is just one issue amongst many.

      As a GAY SNP voter I regard Independence above Marriage Equality.

      Labour are a waste of space when it comes to the economy of the whole of the UK.

  8. Eddie Clarke 3 May 2011, 3:34pm

    I suppose many gays think AV gives a voice to minorities, but it will only give a second shot to the eliminated small minority parties. So the Conservatives will shift a bit towards UKIP, as might the Labour, their being no radical left wing group about. Expect a general shift to ther right if this goes through. Thankfully, it won’t.

  9. I don’t support AV.
    When all 3 main parties support gay marriage why would i want to elect a fringe party?

    Conservatives all the way.

    1. Dave Page 3 May 2011, 4:44pm

      Do let us know when all three main parties support equal marriage, instead of just the Lib Dems…

      1. Actually Dave, I’m far from convinced that the Lib Dems within the coalition government do genuinely support equal marriage. I wrote some time ago asking whether the government intends to contest the Ferguson v United Kingdom case, and have not received a reply despite some reminders, including directly to Lynne Featherstone. Perhaps you could chase up my email, which was transferred from the Home Office (ref – T5103/11 ) to the Government Equalities Office.

        1. Dave Page 3 May 2011, 5:43pm

          I can’t comment on your letter disappearing into the Government Equalities Office black hole, other than to say that this doesn’t seem to be uncommon when dealing with the civil service. I’m not a civil servant, nor do I work for Lynne or the Lib Dems.

          I will say from personal conversations with Lynne and other Lib Dem MPs like Stephen Gilbert, and the MP-on-sabbatical Dr Evan Harris, that the party’s commitment to equal marriage is genuine and strong.

          1. Thanks Dave. I’ll continue with efforts to get a reply.

  10. No to AV
    Yes to BNP for me

    1. Same here. If we don’t vote BNP now, we’ll all be living under Sharia law in 30 years.

      1. Mumbo Jumbo 3 May 2011, 7:15pm

        If we do vote BNP now, we’ll all be joining the Jews again in the gas chambers in 30 years.

      2. Paddyswurds 3 May 2011, 11:20pm

        Probably the most ridiculous comment ever posted on Pink News and thats saying something.

      3. No Nick and James!, do not vote BNP. It may seem a good idea to you at the moment because you hate Islam, or immigration, or something else? But they are as homophobic as they are Islamaphobic.

      4. Oi dont use my name you cnut

  11. We need a feminist movement to promote full equality. Gays and lesbians should be represented by feminists, being gay men still part of the oppressive class.
    We need more women and more lesbians in power, and less fkn men.

    1. Ian Bower 3 May 2011, 5:21pm

      I am a gay man. I don’t think in any way I’m oppressive to women.
      How can you make such a sweeping statement?
      I was active in GLF and understood the multiple oppression by a heterosexist and sexist society.
      May I suggest to you, lila, that your approach only allienates people and doesn’t bring them to a position of understanding.

    2. another man/gay hating leza

    3. Lila, you’re mad as toast.

    4. You cant grow a dick get over it

      1. Jock S. Trap 5 May 2011, 8:05am

        Oo-er missus!!

  12. Spanner1960 3 May 2011, 4:59pm

    Even if Labour did promise gay marriage in their manifesto, I still wouldn’t vote for them.

    Remember, these are the same people that promised an EU referendum, and then sat on their hands for 13 years.

    Some people will say anything to gain power. They are liars and hypocrites to a man.

    1. yea it is better instead to trust people who supported section 28 and voted against majority of pro gay leglisation

    2. Jock S. Trap 4 May 2011, 7:57am

      I might possibly but never while Eds MiliBalls are at the top.
      I think there are many in this country who feel the same.

    3. Spanner, if Labour are liars and hypocrites, how is that different to any other political party? Do you seriously think the tories and lib dems are not?

      1. Jock S. Trap 5 May 2011, 8:07am

        Exactly. Since when was it right to trust a politican? Since when did we have a completely truthful politican esp when they have to serve in the Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet?

        Never thats when.

  13. Re: BNP ‘supporters’ on this website, you are more likely to get people into Parliament if the Lib Dems get their way with AV or proportional representation.

    Margaret Hodge went head to head with the BNP’s Nick Griffin at the last General Election. This YouTube video is highly recommended. It gives a detailed account of her battle against the BNP.

    Margaret Hodge supports the NO2AV campaign –

    1. Jock S. Trap 4 May 2011, 8:01am

      I never used to be a fan of Margaret Hodge but have grown to like her over the years.
      She a bit like Dianne Abbot in that she says what she thinks regardless of party policy and personally I like that about her.
      She tends to talk a lot of sense.
      Supporting No2AV just proves that.

  14. If you cant see the video addy (because of Pink News’ software) the address is –

    www dot youtube dot com forwardslash watch?v=jlOx-eLJvsY

  15. Clark Downes 3 May 2011, 5:36pm

    My first time im old enough to vote and I really dont have a clue. Even with the goveremtn video and my family explaining the differences between past the post and AV I still dont entirely understand how past the post works and hence cant see how it compares to AV.

    So as much as I want to vote and to have my say if I don’t understand it all I’m not sure if its right for me to vote on this. But at the same time I dont want to regret not having my say if due to a new AV system things went even more down hill than they are. rant over.

  16. Ed Johnson 3 May 2011, 6:33pm

    No 2 AV & Conservative Party – The only REAL answer to anyone’s problems. End of discussion.

  17. Well as an ex Lib dem voter I am defo voting for Labour I have defected and I don`t care what some say its my choice and I will not support a party that gets into bed with the right wing Tories just for a few government posts they sold us out now this is pay back once and for all

    I cannot wait to see them flop at the polls come thursday

    1. WHAT? You might have been indoctrinated. You would vote for a party which LIED constantly through it’s corrupt leadership (even about the AV referendum which Labour promised in 1997), brought the UK into an ILLEGAL war costing hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, yet you call the Conservative RIGHT WING?! The Conservatives aren’t right wing at all!! Right wing is BNP. The Conservatives have more LGBT MPs than either of the other two parties AND the equalisation of the age of consent was first proposed by a Conservative MP!

    2. Jock S. Trap 4 May 2011, 8:05am

      AV isn’t about political parties. Don’t know if you have noticed but the Tories and Labour have swapped and joined each others parties in each campaign.
      I think Ed Milibore saying people should use it as a party statement is pathetic esp when Labour originally said they didn’t support AV in the first place.

  18. Andy O'Malley 3 May 2011, 7:51pm

    Just a quick point – the referendum is on Thursday.

  19. Lib Dems are just useless and I can’t vote Labour whilst Ed is their leader! For me there are other more important things in life other than gay marriage. Not saying it’s not important but that shouldn’t be the only reason. I’d rather leave the country than have the queen party in power, the soap doggers

    1. GREEN party, not queen sorry lol

  20. “A poll suggests that the UK’s LGBT community will back the alternative vote system in Friday’s referendum.”

    What an extraordinarily puffed up opinion Pink News has of itself – the readership of this online publication is hardly representative of the entire UK LGTB community; in fact, I should think it is highly unrepresentative.

  21. why is pink paper running a banner against AV, that “purports” to come from the labour party, (When the labour party’s own leader is campaign for it ?) The majority of your readership is for it and the banner is patently simplistic patronising lies. Is pink paper so Tory friendly it’s joining in “the livid macaroon’s” dirty tricks campaign? We can only hope the livid macaroon and arsenic clegg tear each others’ throats out when they realize how much they hate each other, and how much everyone with a brain hates them

    1. Jock S. Trap 4 May 2011, 8:07am

      Actually PinkNews has run ads from both campaigns.

  22. Polls schmolls….The Lib Dems will get a bigger vote than you expect. At least 12 pc of the population identify as tribal Lib Dem voters. Much less than the other 2 parties but that’s their base. I think they’ll pull in about 18pc across the UK. Yes down on what they usually get in local elections but given the unbelievable crap thrown at them, i’d say that would be a good result. LGBT people should be thankful they are in Gvmt because they are on YOUR side more than any other party…not just gay marriage but trans rights etc..they’ve also stopped the ridiculous Labour policy of sending gay asylum seekers back to countries where they can be persecuted. Yes, things aren’t perfect but don’t cut your nose off to spite your face. With the Lib Dems in Gvmt, the LGBT community has a major friend. I’m appalling by the lack of proper coverage about coalition politics. The Libs ARE NOT the Tories poodles. The media on the other hand have vested intrsts and the LDs are a threat to the est’mnt

  23. Im voting no, as is my partner and at least 10 other gay/bi people I know, infact I dont really know many of the LGBT campaigning for the Yes to AV… not sure where this “Gay coters back AV” comes from.

    Mathimatically its flawed, only used in 4 countries (Soon to be 3 since Australia want out after a very unpopular party came to power using the AV system)…

    FPTP is not perfect, but AV is a hell of a lot worse, ideally proportional reprentation is the ideal, but why vote for a proven failed voting system.

    Im saying no to this, go away and come back with something better.

    Giving multiple choices, Silly hardcore Lib/Con/Lab supporters will say it will be a cold day in hell to put the other party as a choice so 2’nd 3’rds will be given to unpopular partys whom the voter belives would never get in… however they do! next think we know BNP or Chistian / Islamist Extremist partys are up!

    And how many of you actually have received any information about what it is?

    1. I doubt if Australia will change , the whole pop got what they voted for (since all have to vote not just those who could be bothered to). The majority went for Greens or Labour…the Green vote just defaulted to the Labour since Labour was the second best choice for most people whose main vote was for the Greens. It wasn’t their first choice but at least it wasn’t a waster vote. Unlike the UK , however, Australia has the choice of getting an elected senate (the UK is stuck with an unelected house of lords) which can swing the power. At the moment you have one chance to get it right in the UK and you’re stuck with that for 5 yrs. It’s a pretty archaic system . steeped in histroy rather than democary, which few other countries would want to follow!!!

      1. Jock S. Trap 5 May 2011, 3:07pm

        Nick Clegg is supposed to be setting out the reforms for the House of Lords at the end of this month.

  24. I’m voting no. Election manefistos will be worthless if we have to have deals where each party can say we had to compromise. Clegg has defiently put me off AV

    1. Election manifestos are worthless anyway – look at Labour’s pledges to introduce voting reform, and not bring in tuition fees etc. The Lib Dems made it clear that in the event of a coalition, they would concentrate on the four key policies they put on the front page of their manifesto, and that the more MPs they had the more of their manifesto they would get through. The BBC are now reporting that the Lib Dems are seeing 75% of their manifesto as Government policy.

      In countries where coalitions are common (and coalitions are no more likely under AV) this way of doing things is understood and works well; we’ve just not seen it here for decades.

      1. Jock S. Trap 5 May 2011, 8:09am

        Chris Humle won’t have helped the cause esp when he blasted the Prime Minister over leaflets that it now appears were put out by a senior Labour politican.
        Then he is clearly more interested in Nick Clegg’s job than AV.

        1. Jock S. Trap 5 May 2011, 8:12am

          Sorry Chris Huhne

      2. What about tuition fees you muppet

  25. Jock S. Trap 5 May 2011, 3:05pm

    Well, done my bit by voting No2AV.

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