Fantastic result! This “conference” was a sham – an opportunity for a hack and a quack to advance their transphobic agendas. Well done to all who campaigned, and kudos for West London mental Health for pulling out – seemed it was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
This is great news. The “conference” was akin to having a gay conference with the likes of Stephen Green and Ted Haggard as speakers. It was nothing more than anti-trans people speaking about trans issues.
It certainly did appear to be so….
We are not laboratory animals, but human beings. The patronising notion that we should not even be given a voice in such conferences is no longer supportable or acceptable.
And the notion of asking the likes of Bindel and Az Hakeem to “contribute” is not just insulting to transpeople, but gives the transphobic nonsense they spout a validity that it has no right to.
It would be akin to asking the pope and Fred Phelps to contribute to a conference on Gay marriage, whilst excluding anyone Gay from the platform.
So well done all concerned, including Charring Cross.
I’m really glad that sense has prevailed in this instance. For psychology to be respected it must draw a clear line between evidence-based work and prejudice which merely masquerades as science.
Kinda like creationism.
But then how can we take the RCPsych and its members seriously when they still ask trans people questions like this…”How do you feel about murdering your children’s Father?”
I worked in Psychiatry for six years. Much of what passes for fact in psychiatry has no solid research behind it at all, and most psychiatrists are actually not that well trained in their area – most training is in ordinary medicine.
That’s a result.
The RCPsych blame low sales of tickets with a month yet to go? That’s just an attempt to save face.
I’m not sure what side of their face they are saving?
We all know why they cancelled the event and that’s all that matters.
That’s all well and good for us, but I’d be thinking that they should be telling the truth. There will be people thinking that low ticket sales were the legitimate reason for the cancellation, and as a result won’t question the controversy that arose. That’s my concern, anyway.
But then why were they not selling tickets? For the very reasons that the people most likely to attend objected to the event.
They clearly don’t know how the human mind works if they think anyone with so much as an inch of sense will beleive that pathetic excuse. Imbeciles.
I totally agree with Paris, the people that care about the outcome of the event will have enough common sense to know why this was cancelled and the people who never new it existed, well they will be the same as they were before none the wiser.
Perhaps the low ticket sales thing is true. Perhaps the potential conference-goers looked at the speakers list and said to themselves “Well, this is a load of hogwash, I’m not going.” Perhaps everyone but the conference organisers is actually living in the 21st Century?
If it’s an attempt to save face, it’s a pretty poor one. If they pulled the event over losing a couple of speakers then they just don’t have a show to put on for people. If they pulled the event over noone being prepared to pay for it, that indicates the wider medical/psychiatric community at large isn’t willing to fund this crap.
Absolutely fantastic result!!!
It shows how bad this would have been, when cancelling the event is actually a step forward!
Seems like this was just a group of Transphobic people who wanted to talk about something they clearly have no idea about.
What is so hard to understand?
Transphobia is still a real problem in the gay scene.
Julie Bindel certainly has a nasty way with words. I wonder who would actually buy tickets to this event in the first place.
Ticket sales were apparently very low anyway. Wonder why.
What can a journalist completely untrained in the subject, and bothering to understand even less, have to say that is useful to professional, heavily trained and educated people. Perhaps she would be better making a quick buck writing sensationalist rubbish in a tabloid to make some money?
For the Royal College of Psychiatrists Lesbian and Gay special interest group to host this conference in the first place is just bazaar.
They reject reparitive therapy for LGB people, but by organising this conference seem to support it for the T.
Talk about hypocrisy.
As for Julie Bindel, her latest rantings standpoint magazine about the gay men kissing in a pub is the same as cottaging say it all about her!
Actually what she writes is:
“Obviously I am not comparing kissing in a pub to having sex in a public toilet or park”
so not sure where you got your comment from Helen. I don’t know the writer, never heard of her before, but I do not think it appropriate to attack anyone on an inappropriate misreading of what they have written.
Julie bindel has said multiple times that gender transition is like gential mutilation, put it that way.
Most of what comes out of her mouth is tripe, her saying “i’m not comparing kissing in a pub to sex in a public park” is like a bnp member saying “I’m not rascist but…”
She dislikes anyone who isn’t a biologicaly born woman
It is however intriguing that she spends several paragraphs describing cottaging in great depth (incidentally confusing it with cruising) and saying she is not comparing the two, before returning to subject of the kiss. As Shakespeare would have it, “Methinks milady doth protest too much.”
its called “performative utterance”. Its what politicians do a lot of.
Their words say one thing… but the very fact of their raising a subject makes links and places it in the public domain.
A bit like Zucker starting a speech with the words: “I’m not here to talk about whether homosexuality is dysfunctional…”. Whatever gets said after that is instantly coloured by that oepning, irrespective of what the words themselves say.
We all, for good or ill, have history. Bindel has plenty of it and she’s clever enough to understand how her words can’t be taken “in a vacuum”. She says: i’m not comparing this incident to cottaging.
A cynic might ask: in which case, why mention it at all?
do lesbians have sex in public toilets?
for the record: actually, yes, they do. Not necessarily the “hot, girl-on-girl action” beloved of a certain sort of porn filmmaker, but, from my experience of covering and writing about the club scene generally, women do do sexual stuff in the loos.
The whole question of what men and women get up to in public toilets is complex and worth an article on its own and, if anyone is interested, i’d happily write one.
What does seem to be the case is that, for historic reasons, the issue has been blown out of all proportion by a clash of moralising and political correctness. It gets defended on grounds of what i’d suggest is mostly spurious appeal to some sort of gay cultural significance: and it gets condemned by those who see it as some sort of gay imposition on everyday life.
What does seem clear is that when Labour revised laws on sexual conduct, they didn’t remove specific provisions in law that criminalise sexual behaviour in public loos, with the result that technically, things that may happen quite lawfully in public spaces in clubs become criminal if they happen in the loo.
This is just silly and, for a decent analysis of the law’s silliness in this area, you need to hunt down stuff published by Chris Ashford, who runs a course on Law and Sexuality at Sunderland Uni.
Basically, hijinks in the loo is well covered by existing laws on public order: but the obsession our lawmakers have with this idea that gay (and lesbian) folk get up to unspeakable things in that space lead to the retention on the statute books of laws that are actually quite objectionable to the LGB community as a whole.
Many psychiatrists are not that well trained. Still I thik that if you believe transsexualism is in the mind, then you also must believe homosexuality is only in the mind – I can see no reason to treat the two things differently.
Another victory…for the bullies.
It is sadly telling how scared many transgender people seem to be that this could have gone ahead. Afraid, much?
Let us hope common sense prevails over group intimidation in the future.
How would you have felt if there was a conference on gay rights, with only anti-gay speakers?
The Royal College of Psychiatrists janitor is more qualified to speak about transgender issues than Julie Bindel. Who would not be angry if a main professional body invites a rabid transphobe to speak at this event.
Trans people are only asking for The Royal College of Psychiatrists to apply the same standards it uses on reparitive therapy on LGB people to the transgender community. It would not dare hold a conference on reparative therapy for Gay people, so why does it feel it can for trans?
I think a lot of people have got used to talking *about* Teh Trans without noticing that Teh Trans have got voices of their own, akshly.
If you don’t want to get called out for acting stupid, it’s safest not to act stupid in the first place. This is a useful modus operandi for life in general, by the way. YMMV.
This “I think a lot of people have got used to talking *about* Teh Trans without noticing that Teh Trans have got voices of their own, akshly.” is so my quote of the day!
So we are bullies, SamC?
Why do you say that?
Because we ask for a voice?
Because we won’t accept the ignorance and bigotry directed at us by the likes of Bindel, and Az Hakeem?
I suspect you resent the fact that the cancellation denied one person in particular another chance to spew her hatred.
I wouldn’t worry too much about that. On past form, she’ll be explaining how she has been “silenced” in the national press before the week is out.
Given the RCPsych said the conference was cancelled because of poor ticket sales, is it truly “silencing” if there wasn’t going to be anyone there listening anyway?
If JB and Hakeem speak in a deserted wood and no-one is there to listen to them, can they actually be said to have said anything at all.
lets have a “is there a future for the gay people in society at large” conference which can influence lawmakers.. and lets invite the pope and billy graham and nick griffin and that ayatollah thing… and ONLY THEM.. to address the floor.. would you rise up and say “hell NO!” or sit meekly on your hands.. mmm.. didn’t think so.
julie bindel is a vile thing who should be shut in a darkened room.. she is not fit to be seen in public in relation to anything to do with transgender people.. because being a BIGOT is a lifestyle choice.. !!
as one of the (many) movers behind this protest, i was never asking for it to be cancelled: merely that the RCPsych involve the trans community in the planning.
More detail at http://sexualitymatters.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/rcpsych-a-comedy-in-several-parts/.
The decision to cancel was taken by the RCPsych because they a) aroused anger through their refusal to debate in the first instance and b) refused point blank to accept offers of help from the trans community once they realised they were in a hole.
No-one closed this conference down except the RCPsych themselves.
No the bullies here can only be those with power who tried to walk over, and unfairly represent trans people. A weaker group cannot bully a stronger group it just isn’t possible. Think about it.
A heartfelt thanks to Charing Cross GIC – an organisation that actually listens to Trans peoples concerns. I am sure that the cancellation was mainly due to them pulling out as well as poor expected attendance and likley protests. Why they invite extremely prejudiced journalists to a clininicans debate is beyond me. J.Bindel has no transsexual expertise whatsoever.
@Charlie, I am pleased CX GIC pulled out. No doubt if Richard Green et al were still there this would have gone ahead. I couldn’t comment on J Bindel’s experience with trans people except that my friend appears to suggest her comments have been taken out of context (? I am not convinced).
The most compelling point is the lack of trans people on the panel? *sigh*
Julie Bindel’s transphobia does not have to be taken out of context. It’s is widely known that she has a very long history of extreme bigotry. it is also widely known that she has utterly no Psychiatric or Academic credentials at all, so why she had been chosen to speak at an Academic conference is a mystery
Next JUlie Bindell is going to tell economist how to fix the economy, then rocket scientists how to send a rocket to mars. She is going to be so busy……
Next task is to get the House of Commons forum on transgender issues to reform itself.
Time for change to come.
How on earthy any trans conference featuring Bindel could be taken seriously is beyond me.
What a lot of bellyaching from a lot of victims! Don’t like it? So organise your own conference! Show us what “getting it right looks like”
It’s not a conference which is needed, it’s equal rights for all gender identities: an end to gender segregation.
A counter-conference was being organised. It’s outlived this one, thankfully.
Wow, is that Green policy, Aliya?
The fact we got ourselves organised and successfully campaigned to get this conference cancelled shows we are not victims Aliya. People don’t like the fact we now have a voice and are not afraid to shout if necessary.
We already organize several conferences on trans issues every year, but we don’t oppose the right for the conference to happen. We oppose the Royal College of Psychiatrists hosting it as its inappropriate for them to do so.
Julie Bindel has no clinical or academic expertise in transgender issues to have her opinions endorsed by the Royal College of Psychiatrists in the way her inclusion would of been seen as a endorsement. While the Royal College of Psychiatrists rejects reparative therapy yet its suddenly endorsing it by using Az Hakeem as its key speaker.
Then we have the key issue of the lack of trans people being included in this and being part of the debate.
Aliya – Don’t you think that people who are victims of discrimination have a right to speak out? If someone tried organising a conference on racial equality and invited Bernard Manning, Nick Griffin and the grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan as speakers, I doubt that you would consider the inevitable protests to be “bellyaching”.
Good idea! We could organise a conference on homosexuality with jeremy clarkson, the westboro baptists and ooh, just for balance, julie bindel!
That’s already been done. Unlike the College’s conference, this one will happen.
Wot? You mean like all the bellyaching from the Gay Rights Movement back in the ’70′s. I’m old enough to have been there and to have been an active supporter of LG rights back then.
Some of the activism was every bit as disruptive as you seem to think this was.
I’m not and never have been gay…but i am more than happy to work with and in support of groups promoting LGBT rights. Period.
Assuming you DO support LG(B) rights…why the fastidiousness when it comes to T?
Good question, Jane! Why the fastidiousness in so many quarters when it comes to I for intersex?
apologies, angela…wasn’t intending to exclude.
i know there is in some quarters a sense of distance between the T and I communities. I don’t go along with that.
Logically anyone with HBS aka transsexualism who has gotten a Gender Recognition Certificate and then used that to get a new Birth Certificate must be seen Intersex as having a ‘congenital intersex condition’ by virtue of the new birth cert stating female at birth yet having male genitals until sugery takes them away.
This aspect of Human Rights Law needs thrashing out in the courts.
Akshly, Teh Trans do have their own annual conference – it’s caleed teh Trans Community Conference.
Good idea. Transgender people could have a conference on whether gay people can be cured and invite a couple of fundamentalist preachers a right wing poitician or two and exclude any gay people.
If the RCS gay and lesbian group want to have a conference then at least have one about something that falls within their area of relevence.
Well said Natalie
As said ignorant or what. there have been lots of conferences.
Roland. You need to read deeper to understand how Bindel works.
Bindel says, “Obviously I am not comparing kissing in a pub to having sex in a public toilet or park”
But then she actually does go on to do just that, and also suggests that the fact that some gay men defend that institution is the reason why people look askance at the kissing in the John Snow.
The next FOUR paragraphs of her article go on to outline, in some detail, why she disapproves of cottaging.
In other words, Gays only have themselves to blame, according to Bindel.
And the underlying reason for that snide attack is that Bindel disapproves of Gay men.
And straight men. And straight women. And lipstick lesbians. And transpeople.
Bindel’s views are extreme rad fem, and she is no friend of the LGBT community.
Which is why so few people in that community want anything to do with her.
Yep. She and her kind are incredibly hate-filled people.
This is good news. I don’t mind things like this having a few anti trans people but only if there are as many pro trans people there too and to only have 1 trans person at a conference about trans people is ridiculous.
….don’t you mean Hear, Hear as in Hear him, hear him….the accepted form or are you underhandedly referring to Nathan as a dog as in “here, here Fido”?.
Oh give a rest already and tell someone who actually cares!
That was for Paddys.. not this story in case anyone else thought otherwise.
I don’t think a conference by the psychiatric association that will affect the treatment of trans people should include *anyone* who is anti-trans.
Why does every Trans story here have the same ‘medical’ image on it?
Because Pinknews is feeding the meme that requires the Media to pathologise trans people and reduce our lives to the medical procedures we need.
Or PinkNews has a very limited number of stock images they use!
Helen, that is correct. I have sought advice from trans journalists about appropriate stock images… but I don’t think they got back to me!
Jessica Geen is very right – I don’t think I did ever get back ot her. I take full reponsiblity for that one.
Jessica, I would be happy to provide some stock images from the history of trans people campaigning for their rights.
Let’s be fair…
Pink News at least covers trans stories, which is more than a lot of the other LGB publications do.
And It covers them sympathetically, too, despite the criticism of a few of its more transphobic readers out there.
Pink News often uses library images to illustrate stories. If the story concerns a medical issue (trans or not), they will sometimes use the stethoscope one. If it’s a school or education story, they might use the school locker room picture, a legal story, they use the Scales of Justice
It’s no big deal.
We should try and avoid over-sensitivity. It can backfire.
Christine Beckett: Thanks very much for the positive feedback. It’s always appreciated.
Christine Burns: I’d be very grateful for some images! I’ll email you.
Has to be said hats off to pInk news, pretty excellent coverage.
There are some arenas so corrupt that the only clean acts possible are nihilistic.
The notion that Julie Bindel hates gay men is laughable, as is comparing this conference to one on LGB and only inviting opponents as Charing Cross Gender Identity Clinic were invited and pulled out. Az Hakeem is someone whose practice is focused on the gender queer and does not oppose gender reassignment for those it is appropriate for http://www.drazhakeem.com/TRANSGEN.html . The lowest point of the comments comes from Paris Lees (no surprise there) – an imbecile is someone with mental health problems or learning difficulties it is not an appropriate term to use for a put-down. This whole campaign, along with the constant Bindel Baiting, is one huge defeat for the trans community inflicted by a small cohort of self-appointed and self-opinionated “activists.” Get out there and change things for the good and stop wasting your time picking on Julie Bindel just because that is the faddy (and lazy) thing to do.
“an imbecile is someone with mental health problems or learning difficulties it is not an appropriate term to use for a put-down”
It hasn’t been used to describe mental health problems in decades. It’s like calling someone stupid.
But this, too, Mercia is straw man territory. I was intimately involved in organising an “opposition” – along with many others, some who are happy to be named as such, some not – and the key point that we went back to again and again was the failure of the RCPsych to talk with and involve.
As a result, the entire conference became a statement in itself: an expression of disrespect and exclusion – and it was to that that most objected.
I like the reference to “defeat”: it would be more convincing if you explained how and in what respect we have suffered a “defeat”. Making it very clear to the psych community that we agree with the government mantra – nothing about us without us – doesn’t feel like a fail. Rather, it probably means that in future the psych community will understand better the need to talk to us rather than simply about us.
It must be lonely on your side of the fence
“stop wasting your time picking on Julie Bindel just because that is the faddy (and lazy) thing to do.”
How about we leave her alone when she leaves us alone? Does that work you, Mercia?
Julie has said many times that she would love to leave the trans issue alone, but the constant attempts to derail her career and demean her online means that she writes about the issue again. When she writes it is an opinion, in the grown-up world we debate differences of opinion, which is what this conference was to be until Charing Cross GIC pulled out. Trying to stop contrary opinions being heard is the defeat and this is a long defeat that has been fought for by a small cohort of activists for over two years. Get over it and get out there and do something worthwhile.
Do you not see the fundamental error in what you are saying Mercia? If Bindel was trying to leave the trans issue alone then why did she take on this booking! You would need to live on Mars to not know it would stir up a hornets nest of condemnation.
I will quite happily stop talking about Bindel when she stops trying to dictate whit happens with my genitals.
What she is doing to trans people is the equivalent of men asserting they have the right decide over what happens with women’s bodies when it comes to abortion and birth control. She passionately supports women’s reproductive rights, but hypocritically is trying to force her uneducated and uniformed view of what transgender people can and cannot do to their bodies.
HANDS OFF MY BODY JULIE BINDEL
This is nonsense, as any look, at the record will show. No provocation forced Julie Bindel to write her 2004 transphobic article in the Guardian, or to argue that treatment for trans people should be restricted to talking cures on Radio 4 in 2007 (“when the producer of the Radio 4 debating series Hecklers approached me, asking if I would argue a controversial point in opposition to four leading experts, I chose the title, ‘Sex change surgery is unnecessary mutilation’” ), or to write her Standpoint article (“The Operation that Can Ruin Your Life”) the following year – or indeed to take part in this conference. It’s true that she has in addition written a few self-pitying articles (“It’s Not Me, It’s You”, etc) about how trans people don’t like her (gee, I wonder why not?), how she’s the victim in all this, and how – despite having a national newspaper column – her views are being gagged, etc etc. But the truth is that she seems compelled to return to this topic again and again.
Even if we accepted your version of events, her behaviour still would not be reasonable. If Julie Bindel were indeed the innocent victim of a group of trans people, then the appropriate response would be defend herself against those attacks and those individuals, not to write again and again and again that all trans people are deluded, should be denied SRS, etc. That’s a bit like getting mugged by a black man and deciding the appropriate response is to join the BNP.
No, Bindel writes about this repeatedly because she wants – or perhaps needs – to. I couldn’t honestly say why – but then, like her, I have no expertise in psychiatry.
For hakeem as a pschotherapist to comment on this is like your local computer repair man telling NASA scientists how to build a super computer.
^^ you mad? pardon my 4channaise….
Wow. Did a bit of background reading on Julie Bindel and her views on trans people are disgusting. Yet another “expert” mouthpiece with no real expertise in the field in which she claims to be an authority. “I have no problem with men disposing of their genitals, but it doesn’t make them women.” Those words wouldn’t sound out of place coming from Richard Littlejohn.
…..“I have no problem with men disposing of their genitals, but it doesn’t make them women.”
Sounds to me Ms Bindel is a realist and knows what she is talking about unlike the majority of commentators on this thread. Everyone who has posted to this thread should read it from end to end and have a good think about why the conference was cancelled. I think, as a dispassionate onlooker, that is obvious.
oh. do tell!
Natacha and i spent four weeks trying to get them to utter any more than platitudes.
Obcviously, we should just have asked you for your insight.
And this extensive medical knowledge of yours on transgender issues comes from where Paddyswurd? Is JB a recognised medical practisioner dealing with trans conditions? Are you or she trans? No?? Then how can either of you KNOW what you are talking about? You can’t. Yet correspondingly the majority of commentators on this thread CAN and more importantly DO know what we are talking about, I wonder why that could be!!!
I have already read this thread end to end and all the other information regarding this conference and can tell you the reason it was cancelled is clear as day to all – except perhaps you?
So please do the world a big favour and go for a swim in the ocean during a storm.
You go on with stuff paddy, but you don’t even seem to have a passing interest in the stuff you claim to be an expert in often. I often watch and read archaeology, paleontology, and anthroplogical stuff. You don’t seem to know that of the so called male and female skeletons they have frequently been found incorrect and unsure about the actual sex subsequently. Your view of male and female is also very simplistic. Any doctor worth his salt will tell you that there are a number of intersex conditions which would make the simplistic methods you are advocating utterly inadequate and wrong. Almost no medical knowledge as well Paddy eh?
The canceling of the event, for whatever the reason given, was the right thing to do. With so many of the speakers holding poor positions on transpeople it was solely beginning to be a lovefest of the haters. Congrats to all that enabled the cancellation. Let’s hope that a new conference with strong, professional speakers with good reputations can be held in the future as a replacement.
This is wonderful news! Goodness only knows what on Earth the RCPsych were thinking by inviting Julie Bindel – a bit like inviting Hitler to a conference on Jews!!
……Ever heard of Godwins Law??……No ..well look it up!
Bindell is next to tell NASA how to send rockets to Mars, and brain surgeons where they are going wrong on brain surgery.
Bindel is a virulent lesbian whose sexual life exposed her to BRSS – Bindel-Raymond-Stein Syndrome – whic manifests as ego=protective denouncing of transsexuals.
Who is this Dr Az Hameen? I can’t find a trace of him but with a name like that he must come from a male supremacist society where the only transsexuals are dead ones.
….perhaps if all transexuals are as racist as you Dr Hameens society may have a point.
nothing racist merely a statement based on observable and verifiable facts.
Why don’t you go somewhere else paddyswurds and stop riding on trannssexuals coat tails and trying to spout ignorant rubbish. You know absolutely nothing of what your talking about, and your actually pretty badly educated. Classics are used to cover all great works of literature these days, the old meaning of greek mythology is very, very out of date, much like the rest of your thinking, and you are utterly incapable of learning, so there is no point going through the relevant arguments with you, because you only see what you want to see. Go and find some other unfortunates to inflict your nasty inhumanity on.
….selective again You know very well i was talking about modern classics. Who Except dusty old academics are interested in the “ancient” Classics these days. And the three classics i mentioned should, if you were serious about intelligent dabate told you that. Did i , for instance mention Homer or Aristotle?.I never mentioned Greek mythology, no, but did list three of the twentieth centurys best known and loved classics and i certainly have no idea what you are blathering as regards my education. You confirmed what i had already gathered from All ypur posts, a bitter unhappy being, angry with the world and who has a chip, nay, log on both shoulders and is also a rabid misandric. Well, pet, you made your bed, now lie in it and fester.
No it wasn’t clear, but lets amke one thing clear given the things you are saying. What is and isn’t considered a classic in the way you are using it means that what you said was untenable. It is then merely subjective, so how can you criticise me. I know that when i was studying my university course in literature that for example that what is a classsic varies from country to country. I studied this remember!!!! It was one of my specialist subjects. Have you got grey squigy mush in your brain there?
Using one person’s words to categorize an entire group would indeed be very much his alley, as far as I can see from the anecdotal nature of the evidence he presents in his articles.
He is the so called Dr who wrote this letter to the Telegraph and then added other clinicians names to it to validate the drivel he wrote.
Dr Az Hakeem feels he alone knows what’s right for trans people. He advocates denying us our human right to be ourselves and would rather force us into being the gender he tells us we are.
No doubt Dr Hakeem feels he can cure people from being gay too with his reparative prescription for suicide therapy. Notice how the quacks that claim to be able to cure people never present statistics of their so called successful clients committing suicide. If Dr Hakeem is anything like his NARTH stable mate Dr Kenith Zucker, he will present 100% success rates by removing anybody who is unsuccessful from his study results. When you have people like Richard Blanchard supporting the work you do, you should worry.
Blanchard famously spent half his career measuring men’s penises to see if he could find a correlation between penis size and being gay.
Such great men of science Dr Hakeem is associated with, a man that tortures trans kids and a man who is obsessed with penises.
Something like men who are so obsessed with vaginas they have to have one of their own.!!
WTF!!! That WAS transphobic Paddyswurd and you know it. It was also completely uncalled for.
I’ve given you the benefit of doubt in the past, when others have had a go at your statements that have not been out and out transphobic, but you crossed the line there. If you can’t comment in regards to transgender issues without being transphobic then sod off!
…More an ironic response to the wholly misandric, homophobic and bitter comment from Ms Wilson above. Sorry if it distress’s you so.
As i have said before i have no feelings about trans in general, but find trans women to be racist misandric and rabidly homophobe and indeed quite a lot of ttem misanthropic and bitter. especially ythose who “discover” they are lesbian after GRS.
Reading through the comments on this thread they, and most of them seem to be trans women, sound anything but happy with their lot.
However i have noticed you had nothing to say about the disgraceful comment made above by tis fleur black person…care to comment on that or are you a rabid homophobe as well?
Don’t bother debating with Paddyswurds.
He’s a well-know and heartily disliked troll, often found lurking on Pink News, and is best ignored.
…actually thiss fleur blacks homophobic diatribe is below rather than above…have aread…
You are making broad (and often offensive) generalisations based upon little fact and on information provided by a known trans-hater. You then appear to deliberately sprinkle these with inaccurate and offensive terms such as “eunuch”, “men so obbessed with vagina that they get one of their own” and “it” and you then wonder why people attack you when you stick your head above the parapit? You don’t strike me as that nieve, nor do you strike me as stupid. You are transphobic – although not in a spitting foam from your mouth Julie Bindel kind of way, yet.
You really do not know anything about this subject if you think that because transpeople are commenting and are angry at your statements then we (yes I am trans too) all racists, and homophobes. That’s akin to me deciding that all gay men are bigotted transphobes based purely upon your responses in this and other comment threads. They are not, transpeople are not.
You are right Christine.
I’ll not waste any more of my time with this slimy little troll.
…….well known and heartily disliked…..which only goes to tell me that what i am saying has impact. You really don’t like dissenson do you ms beckett. And now you presume to tell others what to do as well. How very democratic of you……
Obsessions are not normally supported by 15 years of medical research into how transsexuals have female brain structure. I’m not obsessed with vaginas as you so crudely put it, I just want my body and my brain to be in harmony do I can find peace within myself.
I would of thought a gay man would be able to imagine how much in conflict he would feel to live a heterosexual life while inwardly being gay. Would you expect to continue to living as hetro or would you embrace the sexuality you feel?
Not an ironic response, even if you try and describe it as such. And the rest of what you post in justification of it is little more than evidence of your own insensitivity.
What you write is hurtful, is transphobic and a great deal besides and your sole justification seems to be a “they’re as bad as me” sort of argument.
Trans women, says you, are misandric, racist, etc., etc. – although it takes quite a twist to get to that from some of the comments on here.
ON the whole, my advice to other trans women on here would be to ignore you.
You seem, as evidenced by your comments on the Equality Act, to be the sort of ignorant troll more commonly found propping up a bar and lecturing all and sundry on what the law is and how it works. The fact that you get stuff like the Licensing Laws so wrong, whilst claiming to expertise on them, says it all.
You’re a bit of an ignoramus, posing as someone who isn’t.
“I would have thought a gay man would be able to imagine how much in conflict he would feel to live a heterosexual life while inwardly being gay. Would you expect to continue living as hetro or would you embrace the sexuality you feel?”
Well first off i consider such people crass cowards and they do serious harm to gay young people who find themselves gay and very scared.
I must say that i was never in that category and can’t even imagine what it would be like to hide being what i am .
The same goes with having an opinion and being scared to voice it because of what others might think of me, which is why i find this multi Tag shyte i have been accused of so annoying and ignorant.
I say what i think and if some people don’t like what i write , “Horseman pass by” to quote a fellow Irishman. I have a very distinct and easily seen Avatar and so you won’t end up reading my “stuff” by accident. The off switch on the telly if you like.
or men who are obssessed with thier penis or anus Paddyswurds?
There can be no differential treatment here Paddieswurds, if you believe that transsexualism is only in the imagination then any reasonable person can see that Homosexuality is also only in the imagination. It’s no problem for me, as i believe neither, but for you if you believe one without he other you are a mentally unfit or dishonest.
You are well known and well disliked Paddy. Known to be dishonest, so nothing you say can be trusted.
…now you really are talking shyte…Is it time for your pills perhaps or have you overdosed…hopefully.
He is not a particularly well qualified psychotherapist, talking about an area that he has not trained in. It is like you local computer repair man trying to tell NASA how to build supercomputers.
Good thing this hasn’t come to be – it is very interesting that a conference like this, and put in this way was attempted. What I mean is that I think that it’s important to document it in terms of trans history, because it was so obviously unbalanced and one sided, and the way that they kind of thought that trans people could just not be involved, kind of like we are some kind of species of sub-human. I’m interested in trying to make some kind of short film about it, does anybody have more detail about the whole thing and know where I can get details?
In another example of the empowered transsexual and transgender (TS/TG) community’s growing resistance against being misrepresented by insensitive gay and lesbian organizations who sometimes harm TS/TG people, rather than help, ( aka, Stonewall UK, and in this case, RCPsych’s Lesbian and Gay Special Interest Group ), transphobic and unscientific shrinks (like Zucker, Bailey, Blancahrd, and in this case, Dr Az Hakeem) and lesbian anti-transsexual activists (Julie Bindel), the Royal College of Psychiatrists’ conference on TS/TG issues has been cancelled due to the large public outcry from U.K’s TS/TG communities.
Well done UK brothers and sisters, well done! Keep up the good fight! Don’t ever back down!
Hakeem comes from a ethnic background where the most radical form of reparative therapy – death by stoning – provides a perfect cure for Harry Benjamin Syndrome.
What is essential to remember about Hakeem, Bindel and all these other bigots is that the ECHR rulings have made their rantings irrelevant as the ECHR guarantees therapy and surgery for people who feel to be trapped in the wrong body – ie people with Harry Benjamin Syndrome.
I can’t see why Hakeem’s ethnic background is relevant to this discussion. It’s his theories and clinical practice that are problematic.
It’s not unknown for medical professionals, even in the UK, to withhold medication or other treatments based on their personal beliefs.
So it would be dangerously obtuse to ignore the possibility that a person’s political, religious or cultural beliefs might influence their theories and clinical practices, to the detriment of their patients.
If we could be assured for certain that ALL medical professionals would never allow such influences to affect their work, then their background would indeed be irrelevant.
But we’re not, so it is.
Up to a point. It’s very plausible that the Catholicism of Paul McHugh was a significant factor in his handling of the Johns Hopkins clinic, for example – but then he has been vocal about the orthodoxy and conservatism of his religious beliefs. Unless Az Hakeem has said something to indicate sympathy with a culture that stones gender-variant people, simply “throwing it out there” is a tactic more or less on a par with Bindel’s “throwing out” the comparison with cottaging – which you very ably showed for what it was.
We don’t need those kinds of implied slurs. The facts are enough and to spare.
I’d go along with that. I did a piece for, of all places, the Catholic Herald a couple of months back. I was privileged to talk to one of the UK’s leading theologians AND to read up on the views of McHugh.
Nasty piece of work! The problem, at one level, is that within one and the same set of religious axioms i encountered near total tolerance as well as utter bigotry.
I suspect that you’ll find the same in islam, with liberal islamists being not too bad on trans issues – and reactionary ones being pretty awful.
I wouldn’t then say that being transphobic is an inevitable result of being catholic or muslim…but i’d say that for some transphobes, it IS their religion that has led them to their conclusion.
I made no allegation that he had sympathies with a culture that stoned gender-variant people..
I have no knowledge of Dr Hakeem’s background at all.
I know nothing of his religion, or his ethnic origin, or his political beliefs.
Regardless of whether we are speaking of Az Hakeem or of any other medical professional, I firmly believe that it is unsafe to ignore the fact that such factors have been known to affect the theories and clinical treatments that some offer.
If a medical professional’s theories and clinical practices are problematic, we DO need to know why they are being out forward. We need to know what motives a professional has for thinking the way they do and for trying to influence others to accept their theories.
When it comes to psychiatry, the nature of the discipline can sometimes make it difficult to determine the validity or otherwise of various theories. So I would argue it is vital to look at the motives of the person advancing ANY theory, regardless of their background.
If the foundation of a theory is based on cultural, political or religious dogma, that might well be damaging to patients being treated under it, and would be a cause for concern.
I know you did not make any such allegation, Chrissie. I was referring to Fleur’s comments above.
Of course, beliefs and practices don’t spring out of nowhere, and if Hakeem did indeed hold such beliefs they would be relevant. All I am saying is that, in the absence of even the slightest evidence to that effect – and ethnicity is not evidence – raising the question is mischievous likely to derail the discussion. It is also superfluous, since there is plenty of real evidence in his published works to show why the trans community would rightly view his inclusion in this conference with suspicion.
I suggest that there are important questions to be asked about his qualifications and what relevant experience/expertise he has to be setting himself up as someone who can make these assertions. it is much like the ordinary doctors who just go and work doing specialist plastic surgery, and then cause someone’s death of disability through their irrisposible actions.
Also qualifications that come from other countries are frequently found to be false, or obtained by dodgy financial means, bribery and corruption for example. Psycho therapists of have things like doctorates, like Gillian McKeiths, that are bought rather than real doctorates.
I suspect that this man is quite possibly funded by Islamic fandamentalists – certainly his medical opinions are very Al Quaida like in thier extremeism.
His qualifications are clearly listed on his web site: he obtained his MB BS from University College London Medical School.
Goodness knows I have no time for him or his methods, but this line of argument about dodgy foreign qualifications, ethnicity, Al Quaida, etc., advances the argument not a jot and is frankly counterproductive. I’m sure that Islamic extremists have more relevant uses for their money than to invest in the Portman Clinic.
Also I would say he is trying to tell highly skilled and educated practitioners how to do their job, while he has no specialist knowledge. Your local computer repairman trying to tell Nasa how to build super computers, and trying to be very bullying about it. Can you not get this?
Yes, I get that. That’s not the point I was taking issue with.
Dispatches did a documentary a couple of weeks ago about how standards were pushed down on courses because the Universities wanted the money from foreign students. They pay apparently up to about 27,000, compared to them getting 1,000 for me from the government when I was at uni.
dr hakeem is actually a very decent, open minded chap,alot of his ideas have evolved over the years and in the time i have known him i have never felt him to be ‘phobic’ about anything, least of all trans. he is a very useful person to know if you wish to explore gender (as opposed to binery gender stereotypes common in trans people) as one aspect of your life (along with all the other ones)
Having read some of Dr Hakeem’s work (not just the bizarre 2002 letter, but articles published within the last 5 years) I recognize where your assertion that trans people are obsessed with the gender binary comes from. It certainly doesn’t come from any close knowledge of the trans community. Hakeem’s contention in “Changing Sex or Changing Minds: Specialist Psychotherapy and Transsexuality” (2008), for example, is essentially that transsexuality comes from a naive obsession with gender stereotypes, and that once trans people have been exposed to some Judith Butler (suitably mashed up into digestible pieces by the Dr Hakeem) they will understand that it is all a snare and a delusion, and will be cured! Trans people must be a bit thick, seems to be the subtext. Are you surprised that this patronizing form of reparative therapy doesn’t make him popular?
many people with Harry Benjamin Syndrome – aka transsexualism – have an obsession with gender binary because they have the brain of the relevant sex. Therefore it is logical that these HBS will wish to be stereotypical females or males just as much as the average woman or man has no wish to be seen as anything but themselves.
Crossdressers and transvestites remain men and are the ones who insist on stretching the boundaries of gender.
Wishing to be recognized as male or female isn’t the same as an obsession with being stereotypical. (This isn’t to deny that some people do in fact feel comfortably close to the stereotypical norm for their gender, still less to deny the shameful history whereby a stereotypical gender presentation used to be insisted on by psychiatric gatekeepers as one price of SRS.)
Hakeem and Julie Bindel themselves consistently present (in terms of appearance, etc) comfortably within the binary gender norms of male and female respectively, but obviously don’t feel *they* are trapped within the binary in the pathological way they ascribe to trans people. (If they really want to see an obsession with gender norms, mind, they should visit ToysRUs.)
Your last sentence ignores the existence of genderqueer and other non-binary people.
as part of my job I have to mingle with very large numbers on LGBTs but I have yet to see a genderqueer, bisexual or other non-binary people.
But I do see lots of crossdressed men and women whose body and face language and other gender markers show they are very much men and women under their outer facade.
Many people with HBS, sadly, are forced to pay far too much attention to the gender binary because the way the treatment system works imposes gatekeepers who may dole out or withhold treatment according to how well an individual fits a particular model of “deserving patient”.
That is problematic and needs to be both recognised and addressed by the psychiatric community before they pronounce in the way Hakeem has done on the nature of transsexualism.
I don’t really regard myself as genderqueer or half way or any of that stuff: I’m a trans woman. Period.
However, i am aware that some of the terminology around transition does cause the likes of Bindel some fairly real issues. Where that terminology is my own, i’ll happily argue my corner. But when i find that the terminology is stuff that trans women are required to spout by psychiatrists in order to access treatment…that strikes me as a double fail!
While the idea of gender reassignment is often seen as a “normalisation” process and one that upholds the binary, and also while there are indeed many trans folk who, at least in points in their lives, have very strict ideas about what it means to be a man or a woman, this idea that all trans folk will spend their lives in steriotypical gender roles (and that if they don’t they will be happy to not transition) is untrue based on my own experiance as a gender queer trans man and the experiance of many people I know.
why would anyone but a crossdresser, gay or lesbian want to ‘explore’ gender?
HBS know their gender from very young and are well used to having family and strangers commenting on their inappropriate crossgender activities, body and face language, speech patterns, etc.
CDs,TVs, gays and lesbians all are gender correct until their teens when their sex hormones kick in and produce odd urges to explore gender that lead them into their particular perversions.
Statistics show that gays and lesbians are easily converted to go straight.
…….”CDs,TVs, gays and lesbians all are gender correct until their teens when their sex hormones kick in and produce odd urges to explore gender that lead them into their particular perversions.
Statistics show that gays and lesbians are easily converted to go straight”.
You are quite frankly a disgrace to the human race. Not only are you a rabid racist but also a homophobe of such calibre as is only evident in those who hold to Abrahamic fantasist fiction.
You are a being (i’m loathe to call you human) who is bitter with the world and it’s lot within it. You too made your own bed and now should lie in it and fester. Sounds like you are bitter because your surgery to make you a “eunoch” didn’t work.
Anyone reading t your slanderous bitchy squealing and who castigate me for saying that trans women aren’t homophobes of the worst kind, are deluded and frankly aren’t much better than you. You and your “kind” are why i simply refuse to lump trans in with GLBs .
I very much doubt whether there are many trans people who would associate themselves with Fleur’s offensive comments above: I certainly don’t. That does not make her an “it”, however (especially one with a misplaced apostrophe). Nor does it mean that you can extrapolate from her example to draw conclusions about trans people in general, any more than I would be justified in drawing conclusions about gay people in general because I happened to meet one who was offensive. Ironically, that kind of move is what underpins a good deal of prejudice, whether racial, homophobic or, as in your case, transphobic.
I’m very happy with my surgery and very happy to hear people exclaim’ but you’re just like a woman!’ on the rare occasions when I enlighten them about my past.
And no I’m not homphobic and right now I’m watching the old black and white film of Dirk Bogarde as the closet cottager being blackmailed.
you are homophobic and lesbians, gays and bisexuals are no perverts
as for common sense – that’s something very uncommon and it’s more like a call to arms now then anything useful
‘bitchy’ mean you hold to the idea of me being a woman trapped in a formerly male body despite your other comments?
Thanks, I’m perfectly happy to have a gay guy labelled me female.
,…..on the contrary, one doesn’t have to be female to make bitchy remarks. I’m a gay man and have on occasion resorted to the odd bitchy remark, so don’t flatter yourself unduly, Homophobe.
Paddy,it’s my last try, please listen. Your quite righteous indignation on Fleur’s comments are very understandable. Many of us including me share your feelings and regard Fleur’s comments as inappropriate, particularly the reference to perversions. Please understand though that when you unload on the trans community my feelings are similar to yours. I have felt exactly the same feelings about you as you have about her and have consequently wondered if there will ever be a safe space for trans folk with gay men in the same site. I had to recall all the lovely gay guys I did know to balance the hatred coming from you. I understand that you had some bad experiences with a trans man.Transferring those feelings of hatred and aggression to all trans related stories, comments and trans folk only serves to foster more hatred, potentially poisoning trans folks feelings toward gay guys in the same way that your experience with the trans guy affected you.
Save your words Gwen, Paddy’s beyond hope or sanity.
Your wasting your time, Paddys.. has no interest in listening just spewing bile he knows will get others backs up.
You could only reasonably think this if you know you yourself are Paddy!
“why would anyone but a crossdresser, gay or lesbian want to ‘explore’ gender?”
Because maybe they want to explore all life has to offer and grow as a human being?
I’m going to call troll on this.
Well, either troll or very thick and probably quite damaged.
Paddyswurds under a pseudonym?
I knew ever since I can remember, that I felt in with the wrong lot, by that I mean 5 or 6. What a poorly researched idiot this man Hakiim must be. he can’t see the most obvious things. Lets amke it really simple for him.
If you are gender dysphoric there are these people who will tell you that you cannot get the treatment you require unless you display the stereotypical traits of the sex you wish to be. Given the age of most of the gatekeepers it has to be very stereotypical as well.
I remember when I went for my second opinion as well that even the fantastically good Dr Reid telling me that I would need to wear a skirt or dress as an example. I have a wardrobe full of them, but like most women I wear trousers most of the time. This very simply is the easy, straightforward, simple solution to this mans thesis someone should present it to him. Is this really supposed to be cutting edge thinking?
I was quite amused to see the present head of Leeds Gender Clinic exclaim in amazement how right was my statement to him that if a person really did feel to be trapped in the wrong body they would want to dress and work in that inner sex.
His assitant shut him up instantly which makes me wonder if Leeds has passed a lot of CD and TV and effeminate homosexuals to go get genital surgery.
….I do not use pseudonyms. Why should I and I fail to see why I should or that you should think I would. I comment under one Tag and always will regardless of what i have to say. I am an Atheist, who is not Racist, is not Transphobic, just realistic, and I certainly am not Homophobic. I am a Mature, Happy Gay man who has lived life to the full and will accept shyte from no one and certainly not those who don’t know their own mind never presume to know mine.
….never mind presume to know mine.** obv
Maybe you are just a delusional heterosexual man?
If you are prepared to call transgender people delusional then you open yourself up to it being thrown back at you…that accusation woks both ways!
….My perceivedtransphobia may be from bitter experience. I have never experienced the hatred and homophobia i have on several occasions from trans women over the years and the vile diatribe fron the fleur black thing has really put the hat on it
.Why are trans men not so bitter and homophobic one wonders?
….except that if i am delusional, i can always work towards reversing it. If a trans is deluded and has already transitioned it is pretty much final, isn’t it??
“I am a Mature, Happy Gay man who has lived life to the full and will accept shyte from no one and certainly not those who don’t know their own mind never presume to know mine.”
So, basically you’re telling people not to judge you, but it’s ok for you to judge others (in this case transpeople)?
see above….frog face
Paddyswurds can voice an opinion that TSs are only imagining their condition, but nobody must voice the same opinion about him and his homosexuality. That’s the kind of superior, intelligent, highbrow, person he is. Looks more like a mental basket casee to me i have to say, despite his assertions about how ordinary his life is!!!
Paddy by resorting to namecalling you’ve shown just how childish you really are. I was attacking what you said, but not you personally. Seeing as you can’t even make that distinction I have no reason to take anything you say seriously.
….you are kidding your self if you think i care.
The West London Mental Health Team released an official statement on why they pulled out of the conference.
The wording can be found here
In short, they smelt a very large rat..
Julie Bindel should be kept away from any public gathering.
I looked at the Az Hakeem letter, and I was quite astonished, this is very clearly unprofessional conduct, and worse than that I think that it might leave him open to being sued by anyone who suffers as a result of his outspoken beliefs, and the irrisponsible way he has put forward what is nothing more than an opinion as though it is fact. You expect it from a tabloid journalist, but not from a clinician. I also not that the portman is an NHS facility, so it might be worth pointing out to managers and more senior clinicians what he is doing as I doubt anyone with a degree of responsibility would sanction this, and would probably shocked to see what he has done. I used to work in the NHS remember.
It has to be said that the man Hakeem is a Psychotherapist, and they are quite often very dodgy and poorly trained characters, even in the NHS. But what is astonishing is the way he states it. He is very clearly putting forward an outlandish unsubstantiated opinion which has no evidence as though it is fact and using his supposed professional status to support it. It anybodies transition, or life or carreer was affected in any way adversely at all as a result of this cowboy opinion he is very clearly liable. It is also worth noting his status and traing for if it has come from overseas or here, how genuine is it, and what courses has he exactly done to qualify. I know from my own experience working in the NHS that even some of the NHS qualifications are dodgy. However if he has trained overseas, people who do this frequently have irregularities in their qualifications, or haven’t qualified properly. It has to be said also that training in some countries is frequently very poor indeed.
sex chnage surgery is a proven medical necessity say the experts:
Its great news, clearly the fact Charing Cross GIC were invited to be ambushed by uneducated people on GID. Also charging a price to attend was not correct as many would have attended if free at source.
I only hope we can have similar success with the faith groups who on the attack today with their anti LGBT message, especially the leader of Scottish Catholics.