Disgusting just disgusting.
Why the hell do they think it is appropriate to have ‘jokes’ like this?
A couple of years ago there was a documentary on TV about racism in comedy. Of course, Love Thy Neighbour was in the line up. Along side this was something called “Curry and Chips” in which Spike Milligan was blacked up to play an Asian immigrant. It was toe curlingly horrific to watch. The same sort of excuses were made then as are being made now – “oh that’s not what we meant but you’re too stupid to understand that”. Hopefully in 40 years people will look back on this kind of cruel caricature with the same disgust we hold for “Curry and Chips”.
Spike at least had the excuse that he was born and brought up in India, so his accent was genuine.
I’m also old enough to remember the Black & White Minstrels (all the ‘minstrels’ were white but some blacked up with exageratedly thick white lips). I’d like to see the BBC trying to defend that, these days, along the lines that it was not targeted at the Black community. Buffoons.
Thank you for your email regarding ‘Russell Howard’s Good News’, broadcast on BBC Three.
It is never our intention to cause offence, so of course it troubles me to hear of cases where we may have done so inadvertently.
This sketch was not about transgender people per se, and while the BBC and the programme makers sincerely regret any offence we have caused to you, we would like to stress that the comments were not targeted at the transgender community. The sketch was about a fictional budget airline and the aim was to poke fun at the age old tradition of men dressing as women for laughs, very much in the vein of Les Dawson and Kenny Everett. We’re sorry if you felt this went too far but we have to credit the audience with the ability to discern that this is what we meant.
We are acutely aware that there are sensitivities around particular subjects and give careful thought to how to deal with such issues in comedy.
The BBC response to complaints on this sketch:
Its not on the youtube clip but Russell Howard starts the sketch off by talking about a Thai airline that hires trans stewardess, then Howard asks the audience to imagine a British budget airline version.
So how is that in the tradition of drag? asking the audience to imagine transsexuals as stewardesses on a plain then showing a mis-representation of who trans people are.
BBC comedy should be laughing with us as transgender people, not at us in a way that causes humiliation and pain!
My thoughts exactly.
What about the age old tradition of white men painting their faces black and acting stupid for laughs? When will it be shown on air?
See Matt Lucas!
Yet another reason to the list of Why do I pay for a TV licence. I watch anything but the BBC so why can I not chose to view it… or not!1
The beeb feeds on this kind of controversy in the same way Channel 4 did in its heyday. Russell Howard gets a few more mins of fame added to his career life span and everyone bar the LGBT community is a winner.
Unlike BBC Channel4 suppose to be challenging and controversial, its in Channel4 constitution. BBC on other hand should be impartial and represent all sections of society in their programming, instead BBC is time after time getting LGBT issues so spectacularly wrong and seems totally unable to learn from those mistakes
Exactly, they are openly taking money from people they know they have no wish to represent. Apart from being good to laugh at, oh and deamatic storylines.
He’s not added many minutes to his actual life span, though.
I think your right CMYB, all they seem to be interested in is creating headlines, they don’t give a stuff about offending people. Problem is if they were an independant broadcaster that would be one thing but being that we have to pay a TV licence for these changes it is just wrong.
They should be made to be independant and we should have the choice of having the BBC… or not!
I’m taking my complaint as far as it needs to go until someone stops giving copy & paste answers and actually does something to 1) apologise and 2) stop this from occuring again.
Am very unhappy and angry with their response so far.
These ‘jokes’ may not have been targeted at the trans community but that is where they hit. Someone’s aim is way off.
There was something else I saw a couple of weeks ago that disgusted me, I can’t remember which channel it was on though – but basically a stand-up commedian compared the results of a gender reassignment operation to the remains of a squirrel having just been shot.
Sean Lock Live. I saw it too. That was his encore. I wished I’d switched off when he left the stage the first time. Ruined an otherwise moderately good show
It’s bad but at least if they are on a independant channels you can just choose to boycott, with the BBC you can boycott but if you boycott the TV licence you get a £1,000 fine for a broadcaster you don’t want or that fails to represent us.
Its just cos we are a small diverse group. not too united either on many things, that simply dont matter. Animals are protected by the RSPCA: we have less rights.
Maybe we should just learn to endure this sophisticated brand of humour?
and Im annoyed too.
Only let’s hope that happens far sooner than in 40 years. And in the meantime let’s unambiguously embrace and lay emphasis on the trans community in the pink movement. Trans people form a minority which is going through the same level of villification by official institutions like the BBC that other minorities did in previous decades as you indicate.
Good for you sir! Thank you Brian-E. x
indeed sir, indeed
Comment was intended as reply to David.
I”m 19 and i dont know your experiences about growing up gay but for me it was good everybody thats important to me understood and was extremely supportive i have an amazing boyfriend. But looking on here is so depressing you all think the worlds against you when it isn’t you all think this offensive i’ve heard many gay jokes by top comedians and have never been offended by anything not even Frankie Boyle!!!.
i like this show and Russell Howard he’s funny ( and pretty fit ;) !!! ) and i saw this episode and found it funny when will you just get of your high horses and find the truth your more accepted for who you are these days then ever before and i thank god i live in a great country like Britain where i can be gay and not live in fear for my life!!! .
Congratulations Lee, you can be Gay without fearing for your life.
Shame the same is not true of Transpeople.
Exactly! Guess it’s easier to have narrow vision and chose not to see who gets affected by this.
Lee, this is not about growing up gay. It’s about being transgender. The fact that you find it funny just shows your ignorance about what the T part of GLBT face. Whilst there are those who suffer violence and harassment for being GLB it is not at the same consistent level that those of us who are T experience. I know a number of GLB people and few have suffered direct harassment. Every singe T person I know has been harassed or suffered violence. Many of them do fear for their lives. It’s very nice that you don’t but how is your sexuality relevant to this situation?
Also – jokes about gay people are often balanced within the media by positive protrayals of GLB people. The positive views of trans people within the media are very few and far between.
I like Russell Howard but feel utterly disappointed that he has completely crossed the line with this sketch.
Lee this stuff creates stereotypes that people use to abuse trans people in the streets sometime even violently it will e happening right now to someone.
The Chalky White Caribbean man Jim Davidson used to do on the BBC in the 1980′s still has a effect on how people see men from the Caribbean today, they cant shake off that stereotype 25 years after the act was dropped.
We don’t allow this kid of stereotyping because a person is – Asians, Muslims, Africans/Caribbean, women, gay, lesbian , bisexual and disabled.
The reason you have had a better experience growing up gay is because people took up the fight against this sort of derogatory humour aimed at gay men.
Its quite offensive to see you say well its now OK for me, others should stop fighting for equality now I’m OK.
I often see posts on another forum from a trans woman who faces almost weekly transphobic attacks on her and her home its not in the past for her.
Can you even imagine how I feel as a trans woman sitting on a bus or walking in the street and having school children or adults shouting out the Little Briton line of “I’m a ladeee”?
Its not fun and defiantly not funny.
Ditto! i know trans peeps who actually avoid going out during school rush hour x
Yes Lee, reality can be depressing for a minority group who are treated like second class citizens. Go and watch a lady gaga video or something if gay news is too much for you.
You might not find it offensive, but the joke’s not on you is it? The joke’s on the transgendered community. It’s a bit arrogant of a 19 year old teenager to sit there telling another group they should get off their high horses, all because he thinks Russel Howards ‘pretty fit’ and funny.
You’re privileged; don’t try and tell people who are not what they should be feeling. I like Russell Howard too but this sketch crossed the line.
Also, your comment would be a lot easier to read if you included some punctuation, and don’t try to play the age card on that one because I’m 19 too and have managed to master the art of commas, full stops and capital letters.
I’m sorry……where have you been for the last few years, how many GAY people have been murdered..! or have you been living in your cot wrapped up in cotton wool.
It’s naive young idiots like you that get into trouble with straight people and end up kicked or stabbed to death…!
We (women with a trans history) have to fight EVERY day of our life for our rights just like the gay community so a bit of support wouldn’t go amiss but we seem to get just the same bigotry from the gay community too :- Stonewall, Gay & Lesbian pride ball etc etc!
19 and clearly still an ignorant child.
and you are a very patronising person
…..and not as patronising as the ignorant teenager who posted the original comment.
Lee.. unless you openly hold hands with your boyfriend in the street or camp it up.. who knows you are gay?.. how about getting ridiculed or abused for the colour of your skin or having a missing leg or a missing eye?.. that is what transpeople face every day.. We see nasty offensive things like this on TV and for weeks afterwards our lives are made worse.. Does your life get worse and you get more abuse every time Graham Norton is on tv and playing it up? No.. I didn’t think so..
I have tickets for one of Russel Howards shows in a month or so as part of his tour.. rest assured he’s going to get some back!
i thought the skit to be funny and i really dont see it being offensive when looked in context of the show and how the joke was set up
You know you are right Paithan – why the hell can’t I understand that people being sick seeing Transpeople is funny.
I’ve revised my opinion now thanks to you.
The idea of the sketch was that it was fat hairy bearded men dressed as women on a plane doing a sexy strip tease to a passenger who found it disgusting because the woman was obviously a man because of all the hair and big bushy beard it’s not representing all transgengerd people it’s just a joke !! Ps as my previous comment made people think I was arrogant I’m not I’m greatfull that I live in a country like this but it’s just whenever I come on here it’s all negative stories of intolerance and hatred that maybe I am priviliged in the fact I’ve never been a victim of hatred because of my sexuality and I understand people who suffer for being who they are but I think we should be more focused on the positives and not the negatives.
Oh right Lee so we can laugh at Transpeople if they don’t pass?
That’s not what I’m saying at all I’m saying a man with a beard dressed as a woman has been used in comedy since before Shakespeare it’s not a transgender joke it’s more a crossdresser joke and yes I’ve dabbled in the whole crossdressing thing my self I even performed at my primary school talant show in a dress and high heels for a comedy routine we did .
Lee, grab a Radio Times for me please mate and tell me when I turn on to see a ‘positive’ representation of a trans person? It’s been 7 years since Nadia won Big Brother…
For god’s sake Lee this isn’t about Drag this is about Transpeople – that’s the context of the ‘joke’ you just don’t get the point do you?
Fantastic that we are finally challenging “man in a dress” humor!!!
Looking for what it will take for us to not end up the last unprotected minority on earth, I have this manifesto:
Respect the wide transgender community.
Always be respectful and respectable for the situation.
Ask for or demand respect from society.
Comedy is inevitably poking fun at someone or other. This political correctness rubbish that one cannot have a laugh at someone else’s expense is getting a little tiresome now. If it’s something you don’t approve of, then don’t watch it.
Many people find Roy Chubby Brown hilarious, but personally I find him offensive, so I don’t watch him.
This was poking a little fun at something otherwise harmless, but if it offends – then don’t watch it.
This isn’t about “don’t watch it”. I don’t watch it, but I can’t stop the idiots who watch it, find it funny and then go out, get drunk and find someone to victimise. What’s more, it’s perfectly possible to create humour without a victim.
These people who attack trans people will do it anyway. This sketch was NOT a free pass to transbash and it didnt encourage it. Clearly the ‘trans’ figure in that sketch was not trans or meant to be trans. Would a trans woman be proud to have a beard and show people their male genitals? They were DRAG queens, NOT transsexuals.
HELLO PRIVILEGE! I take it you’ve never had your identity questioned every time you set foot outside your house? You dont have people staring at you wonder what you are. You dont feel fear when walking down the street alone. You have no idea what its like to be treated like a second class citizen by society, and then have some arrogant prick take the piss out of your and your tiny community on national tv for the entertainment of all the other privileged folks out there. Probably not, eh?
Sadly I have had to face that numerous times in my life, but this was harmless humour. The day we stop being able to laugh at ourselves is the day that we become mindless automatons.
This mindless BS that we can’t say anything negative about anyone at any time, or anything that could be possibly deemed as maybe offending someone is the death of everything that is good about being human.
I’m all for stamping out hate speech – but this wasn’t it, and shouldn’t be confused as such.
I don’t remember the BBC giving a warning for trans people that this was going to be nasty to trans people? Many trans. people are harrassed to the sound of “I’m a lady”
But this wasn’t us laughing at ourselves, this was some non-trans bloke laughing at us.
Yes, but the BBC don’t show Roy Chubby Brown. And the sort of people he tends to target – say, black people, or women – do have some examples of positive representation in the media. And how many black people do you know who face racist abuse on a DAILY basis? I expect there are some who sadly do, but I bet it’s no where as near as common as what trans people face.
We can also turn on our televisions & see a black person, or a woman, doing things like presenting news or sports programmes. Could you tell me which channel & at what time I should turn on to see a trans person? Other than in the context of a prurient, genital-surgery obssesed documentary?
The fact is, it would be INCONCEIVABLE for the BBC to broadcast this sort of ‘comedy’ if it were directed at ethnic minorities. You also ignore the TMW research which shows this sort of thing is linked to abuse trans people receive in the street. Look up “How Transgender People Experience the Media” for more info.
Furthermore, I’d like to second Liz’s comments. You say we should just turn off if we don’t like it. In the article you see that I haven’t had a television for over 3 years. That’s why.
However, it doesn’t stop the idiots who shout “I’m a ladee” at trans women, humiliating them in public, from tuning in. Luckily, I (touch wood) don’t get much of that myself as I’m able to ‘pass’ – not everyone is so lucky. Much of the ‘humour’ in this sketch is derived from the failure of the two flight attendents to ‘pass’. Have you ever condidered how unpleasant life could be for someone who is not able to blend in? If not, I suggest you go out your house dressed in women’s clothing and see what sort of violence, abuse and disgust you are met with. Wonder why people think that’s acceptable…
“Have you ever condidered how unpleasant life could be for someone who is not able to blend in?”
Yes I have, and yes I understand it, although the details of my life are not for a public forum. I don’t belittle the struggle for acceptance of transsexual men and women. What I abhor is this awful ignorance that seems to mean that we cannot say anything negative about anyone at any time, nor say anything that could be termed as being maybe possibly negative. It stifles debate on the serious side and good natured humour on the other.
This sketch will never be amusing to everyone, but the answer is simply choice. You can choose to watch it; or you can choose not to watch it. I find it distasteful, so choose NOT to watch it, but recognise that my interpretation differs from others. The day that we stop allowing this sort of thing is the day that we accept a police state and the death of freedom of choice.
Except that no transperson CHOOSES to be abused – verbally or physically – because someone else has chosen to watch it and then thinks it’s funny to take it out on a transperson they encounter. Where is your freedom of choice in that?
This is just lazy, juvenile rubbish- didn’t most people get over pointing and laughing at the ‘different’ one before puberty? And it is offensive- imagine if this was a sketch portraying a gay man as a mincing pink-clad queen excessively interested in (all) other men’s bottoms. That’s essentially what this sketch did- take a feeble, outdated stereotype (that was never anywhere near accurate to begin with) and stretch it to stupid lengths.
The BBC’s response essentially is “we are sorry you are offended” – the classic dismissal that is no apology but actually puts the blame on the victim. They quite clearly have not the slightest idea that this could be more than a simple (if tasteless) joke for anyone, and actually contributes to a culture where casual transphobia is the norm.
The Little Britain sketch was probably also intended in similar ‘jest’, and yet its catchphrase has become a weapon against trans people, who are reduced to grotesque caricatures in many people’s eyes, just as if they were fictional characters created for a surrealist comedy.
There is really no humour in having your identity dismantled, being an object of ridicule with all the problems that presents in, say, finding employment. And that’s ignoring the risk of assault, violent, verbal, sexual, and similar abuse.
“Lighten up – it wasn’t about you” thus seems more offensive than the sketch itself, in that it shows how acceptable transphobia now is
I think this is the definitive analysis of the sketch -
It says it all for me.
Was watching with a trans friend when this came on. He eventually had to switch it off. I was mortified for having left it on so long but I was just waiting and waiting for it to get clever or funny. It didn’t and just made everything uncomfortable. I still feel awful about it because I never want to make my friend feel like my home is in any way unsafe but I failed (and we were failed by the BBC).
I really hope you will complain and tell the BBC and Ofcom exactly how that made you and your friend feel.
I’ll certainly be publicizing the option of complaining so others are made aware.
This is the kinda stuff that makes me want to die… that makes me feel like im a freak show and shouldn’t even bother… thanks bbc
Have you written to the BBC to tell them you wil never again pay your TV license fee?
throw out your TV – you don’t need it and if you have one you need to give these people money to produce this hateful bile.
Oh and don’t let the bs drag you down Karen – you’re worth 50 of them.
Karen, I am so sorry you feel like that. Would you feel comfortable sharing how you feel with me in more detail? I’m on facebook and my email is: email@example.com if you would be up for talking. I’d really like some case studies about how this show has affected people so that I can use them to show the BBC just how serious this is when TMW next meets with them.
We shall overcome Karen. They are doing all manner of nasty stuff but would should at least given time be able to show them to history for the bullies and haters they are. Best to keep out of their way though, and find places that are accepting and kind and go to them….
This is from the BBC so it’s hardly surprising that along with being institutionally homophobic (and refusing point blank to address it) they are also transphobic.
I hope none of you are paying your TV license fee.
The BBC does not deserve it.
The BBC have done more for me as a gay man then any other channel Scott mills on Radio 1 is gay and talks about it alot Radio 1 does the Sunday surgery that helps people with anything I’ve seen more gay documentaries and programmes made by the BBC it’s a national institution.
They love you so but they bloody hate me.
When do they talk about trans people Lee?
Yes indeed – the BBC loives to have debates about whether you as a gay person deserv es to live (‘Should gay people face execution) and routinely engages in casual homophobia and then point blank refuses to acknowledge it.
If you think gay people (let alone trans people) are getting value for money trom the license fee then I am afraid you are deluded.
No LGBT person should pay their TV license fee while the BBC remains so tolerant of bigotry and deems our lives worthy of debate.
How about a debate on if the BBC should be executed? Would that be acceptable? It isn’t difficult to see what they’re at.
I must be only person who didn’t find this offensive.
I know most of you won’t like this by I think people need to grow a thicker skin. I don’t agree with the humour to belittle minorities or to discriminise others. But we need to not let every little thing bog us down, if I stopped and took offence at every gay remark there is in the world or media or just people I come across I would e so busy feeling beat down and picked on I’d get nothing else done in life.
The reason this is done for comedy is society still has a place for it in the mainstream. All we can do is continue to educate and one day these things won’t be funny just the norm so won’t even be a parody.
But how do we educate people if things like this were allowed to go by without comment? By saying “It’s not offensive, you just need to toughen up,” you’re saying it’s OK for people to find trans people not only humourous but that they’re something disgusting and open for mockery.
If you don’t stand up and tell people this is wrong then how are they going to know? How many people are going to be reached by going into a class room, or writing a educational website/newsletter/article? Hundreds? Thousands?
Now compaire that to the numbers of people who pick up their information from TV shows? Television teaches people how to react to transpeople, how to address us, how to abuse us. It gives them amunition and it reaches far more then simply education and hope ever will.
Yes education is a part of the answer but so to is standing up for your rights and telling people when they trample on them.
Was this offensive? Damn straight it was! Will this lead to more abuse of tranpeople, transwomen in particular? It already has. Will ignoring it make it go away? No, it just means that Russell Howard, another Comic, the Beeb or any other channel will see nothing wrong and do it again, and again, and again. So, we stand up and we fight it, sticking your head in the sand
and hoping that the nastyness will go away is foolish at best, asking for further trouble at worst. So YOU weren’t offended and can’t understand why transpeople are. That’s just great. I’m truely happy for you. Please feel free to live in your tiny little world where turning the other cheek actually works. I on the otherhand will stand up against something I know is very wrong, before someone gets hurt
This is one of the worst examples I have encountered of demeaning representation of trans people, and I think is as destructive as giving gangs the catchphrase “I’m a lady” to abuse with.
Also can everyone please stop saying the BBC is homophobic and transphobic. That’s very naive tbh.
Every corporation and society. Every business and organisation. Everything that involves people will always be in perfect. When you hire people in a creative and expressive business such as media you will get bad eggs. But there are also gems. To say BBC is homophobic is wrong I think they just don’t understand gay people and rely to much on crap stonewall tell them and what try see of pride events and all they see is camp out going people. As for transphobic again no but it is an area they have neglected and can castle improve.
So it’s better for you all to bot start giving it this and that how bad the BBC is and demonising It and perhaps contact them saying this is how you can improve. You pay the bills the people if enough call for it it will happen.
Last year, the BBC ran a study to find out how the LGB community felt that they were portrayed by the media, particularly their own channels and programmes. Across the board, they all wanted better portrayals and didn’t feel that they were represented – especially the lesbian and bi respondents – and that a fair portion of the time, if they were represented, then it was in a negative light.
Straight respondents were included in the study as well. The BBC’s reaction to the results was to focus on the straight responses and say “Well *they’re* OK with how it is now.”
Yes, the BBC will sometimes take steps forward, for example giving us things such as Christopher And His Kind, but then they do things like this and the horribly cliche, offensively bad Lip Service. It’s more miss than hit when it comes to BBC’s attempts to represent the LGBT community.
You’ll notice they haven’t done any similar research into trans people. Wonder why that is? Maybe they’ve not made any documentaries recently so wouldn’t really have much to go on apart from the ‘trans’ caricatures you see in ‘comedies’ like this.
They went on and had an open-to-the-public survey on their website that just lightly touched upon trans representation. I doubt anything came from it, though.
The BBC did not include the T in the study because the hired stonewall to do it. After much pressure the did very small scale focus groups for a few trans people. I’m sure the report remains unread and collecting dust in the BBC diversity office.
No I wont stop because the BBC simply is homophobic and transphobic. They continue to use tired stereotypes to distort public opinion of who LGBT people are. I feel total betrayal because less than a month ago someone representing BBC management got up at the Trans Media Watch memorandum of understand CH4 launch, agreed with its aim and said trans people should be portrayed with dignity and respect.
Also the BBC simply erases transgender people from its mainstream programming, then show us as these comedic freaks to be publicly ridiculed in is comedy.
LGBT people are not the stereotypes the Bigoted Broadcasting Corporation portray us to be. Just because the BBC hire some LGBT people dose not give it a get out of jail free card for its homophobic/transphobic nature.
The wonderful media are the worst offenders, and the BBC particularly give the most insulting ridiculous totally unthinking responses.
My trans friend committed suicide just over 2 years ago now. Her life was made hell by teenagers who would follow her chanting even to tescos and then around the store abusing her, even the bloody security made a joke of it chanting the usual abuse of battyboi etc but also i’m a lady from little britain in mocking tones . These shows are obviously transphobic .i’ve that to**er of good news and he likes to think of himself as being tolerant etc but i find his phoney liberalism nauseaus.
Can I extend the offer I made to Karen above? I’m on facebook as Paris Scarlett Lees and my email is: firstname.lastname@example.org
I’d really like some case studies about how this show has affected people so that I can use them to show the BBC just how serious this is when TMW next meets with them. If you’d be happy to talk more about your friend and how this sort of comedy makes you feel, I’d really love to hear from you.
Thanks for your response , but i feel i’m not appropriate to answer for my dead trans friend as we did not discuss how these specific insults upset her, and what she thought was the catylyst for such abusive quotes from bbc programmes. I can only give my position /perception and perspective as a gay man who witnessed this abuse. If that is of any worth , then please let me know but i must confess i distrust anything corrobarated by the bbc as i find the organisation institutionally homophobic/transphobic.
I’m really sorry about your friend. Would you be up for telling me more? I’m on facebook as Paris Scarlett Lees and you can email me on: email@example.com
I think it’s important for the BBC to hear just how this sort of output affects people.
I’m a transgender and queer rights blogger, but this didn’t exactly register for me as something offensive.
Normally my sensitivity meter is reactive, but I guess, compared to say the down right evil episode of family guy attack trans people, this was mild in comparison…
For reference there was a brilliant sketch in last season where Russell Howard turned on the head the convention of a father finding a son cross dressing… in a very positive way….
Maybe it was in bad taste, but it was not so bad as to condem a very progressive and good comedian…
I don’t see anyone condeming Russell Howard and everything he does, just the sketch (if anything people are condeming the BBC, though with the way they’ve responded to it I’m not suprised)
The BBC is far from perfect on LGBTQIA issues, in particular on Trans issues, but before you paint them as intrinsically evil, search on youtube for some 1950s shows on LGBT people.
At the same time the US was warning about gay men being predatory pedophiles, the BBC was doing a fairly progressive look into LGBT issues. They showed gay and lesbian couples, and even a trans-man….
I want the BBC to be better, and I’m annoyed when transgender people like myself come up for a point of cheap humor or ridicule… but writing them off doesn’t help fix the problem…
I don’t even know what the QIA stands for. There’s a real danger of slipping into parody here.
QIA – Queer (or sometimes Questioning), Intersex, Androgynous
Also the focus on genitals. With no other group is it deemed publically acceptable to inquire, or even demand, to know the contents of someone’s pants. It reduces all we are to genitalia, whatever their shape and structure. Many think it’s thus fine to ask about surgical status, even upon first meeting. Some take things further.
I’m a trans woman (posting under a pseudonym here) and I was once chased onto a bus by a group of teenagers who then thought it fine to find out by reaching down into mine and ‘exploring’. It’s taken me a long time to get over that, maybe am still not entirely.
The message is quite clearly that trans peoples’ private parts are not private but quite public. Because that’s what trans is all about, right?
Im sorry to hear about your experience but I think blaming shows like this for it is like guys blaming video games for murders. It ain’t the same. No one who sees this show will go out and attack or rape someone unless they are sick and were already going to.
There will always be people who think that the abuse and trashing of others is fine, simply because it isn’t them. Fortunately those people will always be viewed as worthless, low pointless human beings by most in society, and ascribed low, cheap status for their selfishness ignorance and stupidity. They’re going to look really rubbish in a few years time, so ther is some good news!
Don’t be so ridiculous you lot, this sketh was mocking the age old ability of British airlines generally being useless, the sketch is just saying, if a British airline was to copy Singapore’s stance then it would go for that fairly cringeworthy spectacle, much of Howard’s humour is directed at the UK and he has never to my knowledge deliberately tried to cause offence to the LGBT community. If people chose to laugh at the sketch because they think it’s an accurate portrayal of transgender people then shame on them, they are as bad as the people that laughed at the jokes in Till death us do part, which by the way was more of a satire of racist attitudes.
Okay, so ‘if a British airline was to copy Singapore’s stance’ – by which you mean hiring trans women for the crew – then it would be a ‘cringeworthy spectacle’…do you realise what you are saying? Would it be okay to say Britain does disabled, gay or black people, or any other minority, ‘worse’ and then depict how much worse on screen…especially without any input from the minority in question?
You cannot dismiss the portrayal of trans women in this sketch as incidental, because it simply isn’t.
It’s fairly late, my last response didn’t make a great deal of grammatical sense in retrospect, and for that I can only apologize. British airlines do have trans women already, of that I am quite sure, however the sketch is clearly trying to say in hyperbole that a British airline (e.g Ryan-air) would cut as many corners as it could in this case . By no means am I saying British minorities and by extension transsexuals are in any way worse because they are British, it’s more of a pun on our idea that British industry isn’t that amazing. I must admit the sketch is not to my taste, but it’s not a direct or even indirect mockery of transsexuals. I think we can agree that real transsexuals are generally infinitely more feminine than the actors hired to film the sketch, for instance the culture of “Kathoey” or “Lady-boy” in Thailand. In summary, my views are irrelevant, if Trans women find the sketch offensive or derogatory then any complaint should be taken very seriously.
Ryan Air is Irish
great point scattermoon
I haven’t watched the sketch and I don’t intend to. The fact that clearly members of the transgendered community are offended by it is enough for me to stand by them. I’m a gay man. We LGB may be fairing better with regard to discrimination (in the UK atleast) but that certainly shouldn’t stop us from feeling empathy and standing up for our transgendered allies. Humour which targets minorities is simply unnecessary.
Lee, I am truly happy you are happy and that your experiences with society’s acceptance have been as uneventful as they should be but please feel some empathy. If you were ever deeply offended and affected by something, you’d want us to stand by your side too. And we would.
Will B, that’s so refreshing to read. It’s been far too common an experience to see LGB folks turn their backs on those of us who are also T. You have honestly made me feel a little better about the world today.
Both of my best friends are trans and found the sketch hilarious, while i sat quietly finding it funny but not sure what to do in front of them. it was on the repeat veiwing that i laughed with them. As they pointed out it is a joke and not meant to be taken seriously. Not one of my friends that identifies as either LGB or T found it offensive and in fact one who is trans said its the only funny thing she’s ever laughed at by russell howard.
it’s satire and was quite obviously an extension of the same brand of comedy that les dawson and kenny everrett were famous for. My friends pointed that out to me when we discussed it afterwards.
I notice no-one found it offensive when Mrs Browns Boys was being aired, with the camp son, his crossdressing boyfriends or the comments made the characters. Or the fact that the star was as said on the show “a man in a bucking dress.”
seems like once again the vocal minority is speaking for the silent majority.
the truth is like all the best comedy the joke isn’t on the people involved in the joke but on the audience watching.
i would reccomend anyone going out and buying Brendan Burns “so i suppose this is offensive now”
if you don’t find the material funny most often it is because you haven’t understood it…
there will always be people with weak comprehension skills, and who don’t really grasp what is actually happening around them
a vocal minority should here should not be trying to sanction something that is grossly insulting to other minorities and that will cause us no end of bullying and harrassement, and ultimately some deaths, maybe just the straw that broke the camels back, but none the less it is the straw, and that can’t be forgiven
spent the weekend with a LGBT Youth activist group and this came up multiple times, and not one person including those that were trans found it offensive, its like i said beforeits people not realising who the joke is actually on.
I wrote this on another site that linked to this article and I’m pretty sure that it expresses my thoughts pretty thoroughly:
I remember watching the skit when it was on last week and have to say that I don’t believe it was nearly as transphobic as PinkNews were making it out to be. The segment started with Russel mentioning a Thai Singaporean (sorry) airline that was offering flights with transgender-only flight attendants and the skit arose when Russel asked the audience to imagine if a British airline were to try and capitalise on the idea. The joke was that a British airline would spend so little time and money on the idea that they would resort to hiring incredibly unconvincing transvestites instead of actual transgender people. It was a stab at the British Budget Culture, not the transgender community.
“The joke was that a British airline would spend so little time and money on the idea that they would resort to hiring incredibly unconvincing transvestites instead of actual transgender people”
Did they say that this was what it was supposed to be doing though? Or were people left to guess?
I really don’t think that Russell Howard is a hater, his show is normally pretty right on, so I’ll reserve judgement ….
I think he either doesn’t know he’s a hater then, or is so careless and slapdash in what he does that he shouldn’t be on telly. Certainly a great deal more careless than Russell Brand and look what happened to hiim.
what aload of rubbish quit complaining it was a comedy sketch show, comedy = taking the pi** out of something, next it will be “dont do why did the chicken cross the road” jokes because WHY we’ll probably offend chickens now?? Russale Howards funny and a bit of a gay icon i think
no you get used to this being offensive, or else we’ll end up with all sorts of “funny” stuff that is actually hate about other minorities too.
Yeah but the difference is, Matt E, chickens are chickens and trans people are HUMAN BEINGS. I’m sorry but when trans people face so much abuse, violence and murder at the hands of people who feel uncomfortable/disgusted/amused by those of us who might look like men in wigs to them, this sort of comedy is very, very dangerous. I suggest you look at these alarming figures about the murder rate of trans people around the world, including the UK, and think about just why so many trans people seem to have a problem with this sketch and the type of thinking it legitimises: http://www.transrespect-transphobia.org/en_US/tvt-project/tmm-results/tmm-march-2011.htm
the sketch was about ladyboiz from t hailand actually and Russell isn’t a bigot and he is funny, I saw the sketch and laughed and saw nothing to do with trans folk
Russell Howard starts the sketch off by talking about a Thai airline that hires transsexual stewardess, then Howard asks the audience to imagine a British budget airline version.
So how is that in the tradition of drag? asking the audience to imagine transsexuals as stewardesses on a budget airline then showing a mis-representation of who transsexual women are.
Its about as funny as the Daily Star columnist saying if Ricky Gervais was gay you would worry his recent weight loss was because he had AIDS.
I think the ‘mis-representation’ is the whole point you are missing. It was a deliberative mis-representation to demonstrate how rubbish budget airline are. It was not an attack on trans people.
Really? Then it was remarkably ineptly done because even the BBC’s spokesperson doesn’t seem to have understood that the sketch was about the misrepresentation of trans people. According to that spokesperson it had nothing to do with transgenderism at all.
Come on, seriously, you don’t think viewers will be laughing because of the concept of misrepresentation, do you?
I dont think the public care. Ok, it was perhaps badly done, but the guy is on our side, he did a poorly thought out sketch (it would seem), nothing more than that.
It would only work as a “mis-representation” if there weas already a good range of trans role models and visibility in the media. You can’s say “haha, look how they’re mis-representing trans folk, isn’t that funny?” if you know what trans people are actually like. Otherwise you’re just going to be thinking “yeah, men in dresses pretending to be women, LOL”
Get a life you dozy bitch
I would but CIS gendered people like you keep on wreaking it with transphobia.
Maybe if I had equality I would be able to get on with it.
Someone like Janice R.I.P will never be able to have a life again. She chose to step in front of a train than face another day of abuse.
CIS gendered people need to let us have a life before we can get it.
some people only think about themselves, no one else matters but them, and they will watch all manner of atrocities perpetrated on others. This man will not be regarded highly by many and is almost certainly shunned in life with an attitude like this. IN order to get a life we need to deal with people like you so get used to it, get over it
“Get a life you dozy bitch?” I think it’s quite clear we shouldn’t waste our time responding to people Like Jonh D who become so personal and childish on these forums.
russel howard is a “phoney liberal” masquerading under a phoney pcism but covertly reavealing all the worst isms
sorry dyslexia meant revealing.
No if you created a sketch so badly that it inadvertantly trashed others it would still be bad bigoted work, and it would still be encouraging hate. We see the results of this stuff every day.
I saw a different episode when he was doing a sketch about a fireman giving a dog mouth to mouth. And as he was acting out the scene he put on a very camp vioce. Hes a unfunny cnut
only for people with no soh
might as well forget chester, there just aren’t sufficient brain cells in there to reason with
I mean chester is lacking not james….
you’ve put me in my place now! you have no facts etc so you attack something else!
convince me I’m wrong if you can!
unfortunately people who are scum will use anything to attack anyone else who is different so it doesn’t matter that they missed the point of the sketch
No one missed the pointSSS of the sketch Chester. There is no argument in your statement it just trashes without justification
Maybe they thought being on BBC3 nobody would actually watch it. Why don’t they just scrap BBC3 & BBC4 and save us some Licence fee.
HE’s bout as funny as a used tampon, hate him , hes a pr*ck , i’d get a better laugh off hugh grant and hes not remotely funny except in real life when he was nabbed with the hooker.
I complained to the Equalities Office and The Equality and Human Rights Commission and no-one wanted to know, I think its a waste of time complaining to the BBC as they always trot out the same lame duck excuse that no harm was intended, that comedy has to be “challenging”
it’s important to have an equalities office that actually bothers to reads and understand what is going on, and gives a proper thought through reply. If it doesn’t then obviously it’s function is nothing to do with equality bu stopping complaints only, and should not be funded by taxpayers
Please complain to Ofcom.
I take it all those complaining will also be asking for drag acts to be jettisoned as an entertainment in gay pubs – them being, as has long been claimed by feminists, demeaning to women.
Or perhaps its just that a bloke in a frock is intrinsically funny?
can’t see what on earth this has to do with drag acts, but if they did what this man has done then it would be wrong. However, of course nobody else has done what this man has done.
The anodyne Russell Howard has done “what nobody else has ever done”? Something so offensive it beats every human act of offensiveness that ever took place? Worse than Caligula, Hitler and Mugabe put together, Howard simply takes the biscuit?
No drag act has done what Howard has done – as far as i know – of course. read above. why do I need to spell it out?
Hannah, for many years feminists have complained about drag demeaning women, in exactly the same way as those above say this sketch demeans transpeople.
There’s even a drag queen in America – Shirley Q. Liquor – who performs in blackface.
A lot of humour is likely to offend someone. Do we ban it all just in case someone doesn’t like it?
I still don’t get all the hate here. And just because I wasn’t offended and don’t like the fact people automatically demonise people and companies I get abuse on here like I support homophobia and transphobia.
It’s deeply hurtful how soon people turn on others on here. My only point was all the hate don’t help if you want change contact BBC in mass and politely let them know.
It’s very sad how people are so fast to jump at hate and abuse yet so easily dish it out themselves to others. Kinda says a lot really.
Did you read the article? many hundreds of trans people and our allies have complained and been fobbed off with a ridiculous excuse. The only option left was to issue a press release to inform the wider public of our disgust with the BBC.
The BBC has a history of using offensive stereotypes of transgender people it is comedy. Its time its held accountable for it.
Are you a BBC employee by any chance Adam?
No I’m not a BBC employee. And more than just the BBC use offensive stereotypes.
Are you a sky or itv employee any chance Helen, wanting to put down the competition?
I doubt you are but I can play that card to. All this aggression just isn’t helpful to anyone. Yes discrimination and ridicule needs stopping but you do that by working with the company. The more you just throw abuse and anger at a situation the more you will get back.
From what I see on here people are being very polite to people who are treating them very badly adam88.
experience shows, particularly with the BBC, that attempts to get people to think and consider what they are doing usually result in a trite platitude kind of reply that is fatuous in the extreme.
the stereotype was women with cocks so is that what a trans is?
so many people getting up in arms over something that wasn’t about trans people but something totally different, it’s as stupid as when they claim games influence people to be evil
When exactly did the show say “these aren’t transpeople”? Did I miss the bit where it showed the budget airline deliberetly hiring men and making them drag up? Was there an explanation to say that these weren’t characatures of transwomen? Maybe I blinked when they sketch showed clearly that the target of the skit was without doubt budget airlines? And maybe I do actually live in a world were people will have seen it as something silly and never use it as ammunition to abuse transpeople?
Also what the hell do YOU think transpeople are? Not every transperson is transsexual and not every transsexual person has had or even can have GRS!
you missed the episode and done what the daily mail readers do and jumped on the bandwagon
I thought trans wanted to change to fit who they are not to be both sexes or did I miss the point of being trans?
Yes you did Chester, you completely misunderstood.
Actually I have watched the episode and not just jumped on the band wagon as you put it.
And for your information, for all the good it’ll do; trans – normally being short for transgender – is a catch all term for transsexual, gender variant, cross dress, genderqueer, androgyne and more. Relatively few are your “classic” transsexual people requiring GRS, and even then some transsexual people are unable to have GRS due to other medical conditions or the cost of surgery. All of them are covered by the term transgender. So yes you really missed the mark.
There seems to be a problem here with people who don’t actually understand what they’re talking about! eg don’t know what trans means properly. I suspect also that some people are hoping to go into the BBC or be associiated with them, and so, for this reasons being. Also of course some peole are just plain defferential.
As much as I love Russell Howard, I was offended by this sketch. I’m not saying it as a humourless liberal, I’m saying it as a transwoman that was insulted by the depiction of trans people shown, and Russell Howard’s idea that it is obsurd for a company to have transgender employees.
That really wasn’t what the skit was trying to say. The point of the sketch was that the British attendants were cheap ripoffs of transpeople as a jab against Budget Airlines and their tendency to offer subpar services. In the segment he never offered any opinion about the actual airline’s decision to offer transgender-only cabin crew.
No that’s your interpretation of it, and I could easily write an essay on why your wrong. It implies all kind and manner of things, perhaps it’s your own lack of awareness that causes you to miss them?
“No that’s your interpretation of it, and I could easily write an essay on why your wrong.”
I hope your spelling is better in the essay.
So the idea of Transpeople making you feel physically sick was not Transphobic either. I mean I know people make sick nosies when they see me and their friends laugh and then it all goes down hill but obviously I’m not getting the subtlety of their humour right?
By your own admission then, this sketch is meant to be presenting “bad trans people” ie the ones who stand out because they are so unpassable. Don’t worry, trans people know what a cis woman means when she says she doesn’t want to look like a “bad tranny”. Bad=unpassable. But Taylor, have you ever stopped to think how a a trans woman with masculine features feels? She may well fee just as feminine as a pretty, fine-framed trans woman. But, as demonstrated by the comments on here, “there’s nothing funnier than a big fat man in drag”. Don’t you understand, that’s exactly what many people would see when they meet a an overweight trans woman? This show very explicitly bills itself as a joke about some of the more ‘bizarre’ stories in the news, before ending on a fee good story. I suggest that the news that a Thai airline was helping trans women out of the sex industry and into safer employment should have been that week’s ‘feel good’ story. That’s certainly how Pink News covered it:
You are clearly a very admirable, brave and strong woman and i appreciate your posts and agree , please read mine, but i hope that soon you can drop the depressed on your name tag and find happiness.
Of great concern to me are the responses by the BBC. They really are trite, and don’t even bother to think about the issues properly. The route of this is that the BBC is very clannish and full of nephitism. I know one family where every child (3) works for the BBC. How about a survey to look at family relationships, and create a policy to deal with it.
A fat hairy man dressed as a woman is funny. end of.
Only funny end of it your a bit lacking up top, and have no consideration for others.
So hilarious you condone the bullying, intimidation and murder of transpepole.
Ha Ha. Funny.
It also concerns me that it ridicules how poor and uncared for we are in the UK. I’m sure they do look very smart in Singapore, but here in the UK trans. people get a dogs life, and don’t as in other countries have enough money for surgery, and good clothes. i don’t even get a night out often, and cut my own hair. Paying for our banks decadence is really costing me, and I don’t think I should be ridiculed just because I’m kept poor and denied all manner of opportunities.
Over sensitive twats!
So Its over sensitive to object to yet another BBC comedy sketch that people will use to abuse me and others like me.
Maybe I should just go hang myself instead of making a valid complaint? Because only CIS gendered people can tell me how I should feel!
Its OK watching this with CIS gendered privilege knowing it has no effect on you. Its offensive because time and again trans people are harassed at home in the streets and at work from the assumption people make from this type of comedy.
Very mature! And I suppose you’d be quite happy for someone to make a joke using an offensive stereotype of your core identity? You’d let them continually have a go at you? to allow them to continually go unchallenged no matter what? Be honest. I don’t think you would, not for long. Particularly if members of the public were then using snippits of the show to verbally and physically abuse you.
So no, we’re not being over-sensitive, we are trying to stand up against what is very clearly wrong.
Surely this man is oversensitive for being so troubled by the idea that this is unacceptable.
it’s not us that come across as ‘twats’ johnD.
Anyone who doesn’t think it was offensive or who found it funny is anti-trans. End of.
Nope! Just an intelligent human being capable of understanding humour.
The kind of humour that has been outlawed for many groups in this country, but as considered good by some years ago
it was funny and I don’t have any issues with trans anyway
No you just like laughing at us.
the sketch wasn’t to do with trans and I don’t laugh at trans either – sorry to burst your bubble
OK Chester, so, if, for example, gay men were being offered jobs in a country which discriminated against gay men, say… hmm say an African state somewhere. They were offered jobs as ticket guards on trains. Now let’s suppose RHGN decided to do a sketch based on this story, set in Britain. The sketch would feature lots of ridiculously camp gay men, wearing tight white t-shirts, dancing to Abba with their hands folder over in camp gestures wearing t-shirts saying ‘bum boy’ and joking about how how they have AIDs to people on the train who then vomit over them. Would you be happy with that? What if the BBC said, “Oh this wasn’t about gay people” it was about the tradition of camp stereotypes in comedy? Would you be convinced?
Also, how would YOU feel if YOU saw something that YOU found to be DEEPLY and UTTERLY offensive about gay people – ie people LIKE YOU – and STRAIGHT people told you to “get over it2 and to “stop making such a fuss”? We are trans people, we are offended by it, and we have every right to stick up for ourselves and not you, not the BBC, not anyone is going to tell us we have to out up with this any more because we will NOT!
Brillianr example depressed trans woman – have copied this to use an example in my own letter to the BBC and Ofcom. Hope this is OK? I can credit if you wish.
Unfortunately this isn’t simply a question of whether individuals are offended or not. There is clear evidence linking material of this sort to abuse aimed at trans people in real life, and even to assaults. Ultimately it doesn’t matter how the sketch was intended – what matters is the impact it has on society.
Trans Media Watch doesn’t claim that all trans people think the same way and it doesn’t just complain. It works proactively with media organisations to help them explore trans issues without these problems. It doesn’t advocate censorship but encourages those working in the media to take responsibility for their words and actions.
If so many people are offended and upset by something like this, its a wonder that anyone can leave their house. Lets just all sit indoors, turn off the TV and radio and discuss nothing but the weather. That way we can be sure that no one will be offended or upset. Then none of us will get upset or offended. Or maybe we could all chill out and have a laugh at life.
I think we all need to grow up. We are adults, not fragile babies.
This man has evidently never really had the misfortune to suffer abuse himself, and so cannot comprehend the problems and suffering that it means to others
And how do you know i am a man? I am ever so offended that you assume my gender just from my name. I may have to write a complaint against you hannah. Absolutely disgusting.
Umm…your name is Maxwell? If you didn’t want to be thought a man perhaps you shouldn’t use a name like Maxwell. And I will write a complaint against you! Very delicate aren’t you given what you think is OK happening to trans. people. Major hypocracy!!!
Oh my goodness! You are so uptight you can’t even recognize another joke.
I tried having a laugh at life but the friends who have been hospitalised, the people driven to madness, the daily violence all made the laughter die on my lips.
I am sorry to hear about your friends and I hope you’ll be ok
Maxwell, its not about being fragile babies as you say, it’s about being respected as human beings. That sketch was just not funny given the back ground of the story.
Had it been made up from someones imagination, still not funny but stupid and maybe not as offensive
you mean the ladyboys that it was aimed at? I still feel people have missed the point anyways
Incidentally lots of people aren’t leaving their house, but for fear of physical, violent abuse, that actually happens. There are also people like me who used to go all over, but who get so sick of of being a target for scape goating that we have started to go out only when we actually have to, and then to places and people where we know we won’t get abuse. That’s where I currently am. This is supposed to be a free country.
not scared, not frightened, but sick of an endless string of bullying idiots who have no experience but just want a scapegoat for their anger. I tend to stick with the people I know are OK and have used for years.
How is that gay men who are quick to be offended by offensive gay stereotypes are able to tell transpeople that we are being over-sensitive about the use of trans stereotypes? Gay stereotypes rarely result in the same level of abuse that trans stereotypes do, yet wooh betide anyone for using them. If someone tells me they found something offensive, even if I personally did not; then I would stand by them and their right to take action, not accuse them of being over-sensitive or not getting the point.
As Jenny pointed out, people use the jokes they see in these skits to abuse transpeople and that abuse is often regular, humiliating and very offensive. It’s hard to live with, and in many cases leads to depression and sometimes death.
I appreciate the support that many gay men here are giving the trans community in this comments thread but am appalled by the number of gay people who are telling us to grow thicker skins and grow up.
Sorry, meant Jennie not Jenny.
The real objection people have is we are standing up for ourselves. It puts a big dent in some peoples CIS gendered egos to think we are equal to them.
spot on helen.
I found I didn’t get that much abuse when I was in ‘early transition’ and living in a Council House but now I’ve moved on from that I am constantly threatened – people like their Transpeople to be pathetic and woe betide you if you’re not.
Yes it is correct, people like their trans. people to be not seen and not heard, obedient and deferential. Anything else will just not make a good token whatever…..I won’t bully, but at the same time I will not be bullied and say nothing, which is really what some people want.
have to admit that kind of ‘comedy’ seems well.. outdated probably isnt the right word (i cant think of a better 1 right now since im at work, eats my brain power it does) the BBC reply however is disingenous to kenny and les, nothing like that at all as far as i could tell, probably wouldnt have been as bad without that reply when 1 thinks about it, just on that note you’ll have to forgive my ignorance on this but what means CIS gendered? just curious as ive not come across that 1 before, well at least as far as i remember
Cisgender means anyone who isn’t transgender.
For the idiots on here who think the BBC loves Queers read this:
what a balanced report from both perspectives its called journalism !!!!
Judging by your previous comments, i’m fairly certain you are the idiot.
It is offensive, because it makes a joke of the fact that Thai airlines have recruited trans women. And this is russel howard’s view of what trans women might look like.. NOT FUNNYYY
On top of everything that you folks have already pointed out, this sketch has the ridiculously creepy and callous message that trans people who don’t “pass” are “budget”, and therefore inferior and worthy of mockery.
I’d only seen Russell Howard a few times in the past. Not really my type of humour, but I always thought he was a nice, progressively-minded kind of guy. Clearly, that just depends on what topic he’s talking about. On trans issues, he’s got a hell of a way to go before he gets his “decent human being” badge.
Shows like these insult tons of different people, the differences being that the majority of these people just choose to ignore it and not be so childish about it all. Grow up and learn to ignore it.
Those of us who are into our middle age and beyond ignored racist, sexist and homophobic stereotypes in all the media, especially comedy shows, throughout our youth because making an issue about it invited more ridicule, rejection or violence if we were non-white, female or homosexual. Then there came a time when our campaigning groups prevailed and it no longer became acceptable for such inaccurate and repressive images to be such normal fare on the TV. The consequences of this liberation are being felt now across Western society. We’re not there yet, but we’ve come a helluva long way.
The fact that the inaccurate, mocking and hate-filled imagery is now settling on the trans minority because the previous subjects of ridicule and hate are no longer such acceptable game, is shameful. Just ignoring it is equivalent to accepting it, and our pink movement is strong enough these days that we don’t have to do that.
i like family guy which has a gay evil world domination obsessed baby and a creepy old man who likes Chris Griffin and i don’t find it at all offensive just very funny.
No evie, you grow up and learn to accept what other people find offenssive or you just might find something offensive being said to you and it being shrugged off as nothing.
This furore is ridiculous. My best friend is TG and found this sketch hilarious, as did her TG friends. It was in no way whatsoever: transphobic, malicious, vindictive or offensive. It was *clearly* not meant to be a snapshot or representation of TG people in any way. It was a lighthearted joke, suggesting how less glamorous the British may be than the Thai counterpart – no malice, no intent. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Russell Howard and have a couple of friends on the stand up circuit who have worked with him. He is a one of the most kind hearted, generous, decent and thoughtful people you could hope to meet. And if you are familiar with his work, you will know how furiously anti discrimination ,intensely non judgemental and liberal he is. There is not a phobic bone in his body and it is awful to see people reacting to something from his show in this manner. He absolutely does not deserve it. Please direct your misplaced fury elsewhere.
Like I said to the deluded person above it’s simply targetting the wrong people. People who attack other people on the street do not do it because Russell Howard makes a light-hearted sketch. We would all benefit from realizing that.
If he doesn’t have a phobic bone in his body, he will be mortified that this has caused hurt to trans people and will be making an apology straight away then eh?
For heaven’s sake. ‘My best friend is…’ is such a classic derailing tactic for bigots. Why should your friend’s opinion matter more than mine? Is that because they’re a GOOD trans person? Because they keep quiet and don’t offend the cis majority? Some of us are sick of this and won’t keep quiet to satisfy cis people who want to tell us what to think any more. Deal with it!
Many trans people have been abused to the sound of “I’m a lady”. I usually don’t wear make-up and almost always wear trousers and even I’ve had it. I tend to go organisations/businesses I know are OK because of this kind of behaviour myself.
Bethany, you must be having a laugh if you think we don’t know it’s you hiding there.
No fury, and I’m a bit fed up with fictinal friends that think all manner of terrible stuff is fine. It doesn’t matter what he is or thinks, it’s what he puts up to be seen that matters and this is very insulting. You are so stupid that you think it’s fine to say how much less glamourous us brits are, but we don’t have masses of money from prostitution, good jobs in airlines, or a generous government (no matter how intelligent we are, work etc, here in Britain we are always crap to be removed from someones shoes) and anyway that is why all this stuff is unacceptable. Go somewhere else and call someone else, crap, rubbish, or “less glamorous” if you like but not on the media. We are not rubbish for you to insult as you please. And this stuff does shape attitudes, only a few months ago I was treated terribly on Britains Got Talent, in exactly the manner of Simon Cowell. I don’t go near any more. Like it or not it’s happening and this is the kind of stuff that’s responsible.
Firstly – who are you referring to when talking about a Bethany? Was that directed at me? Because if it was, you need to clarify and explain yourself – What on earth are you talking about quite frankly.
Secondly, no, Russell should absolutely categorically *not* apologise because he has done nothing wrong. It is not his fault you are offended. Remember – just because you are offended, that does not mean you are in the right. This complaining humourless culture has gotten rather silly now. People seem utterly incapable of separating prejudice from inoffensive comedy and intent on making their demands with over inflated and misguided power. There is true hatred of minorities going on out there every single day. My friend has given me many a horror tale. *This* is what needs to have your attentions focused on. And Sam, I totally agree – the suggestion that this sketch influences hateful, ignorant bullies is utterly ridiculous. Please – let’s get some perspective.
This man should apologise. This is no different to Blacking Up. We have already explained all through this thread why this is outrageous. It cannot be allright to imply it is fine to throw up because you find trans. gay, bi or les. people disgusting, or more importantly to imply that it is normal and the way people should behave.
Also you are utterly ignorant and don’t have to live this. Most of us have had our lives ruined and torn apart from this kind of deceitful rubbish, and it’s a little hard to tolerate someone telling you to just “forget about” a ruined life. Do you understand? Lives that are so restricted we can do almost nothing because in Britain (as Howerd has shown) the bigotry is some of the worst in the world.
Excuse me? Hannah there’s many, many contradictions to your comments. Firstly, DO NOT insult me. I am far from stupid thanks very much and please stop being so utterly arrogant, by proclaiming that ‘ if I would read the thread, I’ll see why it’s offensive. Well, if you would like to read my post properly, you’ll perhaps notice my comment – Just because you are offended, that does not mean you are right. You absolutely are not. The sheer arrogance of stating that you have seen something offensive, then obviously that is now fact and it must be offensive. Utter pious claptrap. You cannot lay the blame for phobic and hateful people at the door of inoffensive comedy. It is erroneous and unfair. And are you telling me you seriously believe that Russell’s sketch was tantamount to blacking up? Seriously? And where on earth has this Rule Britanniaesque rant of yours come from? For someone keen to make a point of their liberal credentials, that sounded remarkably BNPlike…
Sophia, how can you not see that it is exactly like blacking up? Seriously. How can you not see it is exactly like blacking up? Let me just explain that for you: White person puts black make up on badly to make fun of black person. Non trans male dresses up like a woman badly to make fun of trans person. How can you not see the similarity? And you think your opinon is valid because you have some ‘trans’ friend who thought it was funny? You mean like the racists that have some ‘black friends’ or the homophobes who had some ‘gay’ friends once upon a time in a land far far away? I don’t have any trans friends, but I can see that a sketch like this pokes fun at trans. It’s so obvious that anyone who doesn’t think this sketch is transphobic is actually TRANSPHOBIC.
Oh for pity’s sake. It was not done to humiliate or make fun of any trans person. There was no attempt to represent any TG person whatsoever. Surely any idiot can tell the difference between that and prejudicial humour? Or have I been over estimating the intelligence of the general public here? And do not patronise me and dismiss what I said as ‘some trans friends’. Seriously, could you be any more pompous? My best friend is TG and I have been a strong support for them. She and her TG friends thought the sketch was hysterical. By mentioning this, this was clearly not an attempt by me to say ‘I have trans friends, so surely I ain’t no transphobe’. I mentioned it to point out to some of the humourless and pious here, that their statement of offensiveness is not in fact the pure truth that they would like to mention. You are offended, but you are not right. You have capitalised transphobic, but y’know what?… You’re still not right.
Thanks Eddy that’s a great reply. Do you get many BNP say what a terrible bigoted country Britain is Sophie? I’ve achieved quite well academically Sophie, so I have no problem seeing the exact nuances of this. I’ve been known throughout my life for my humour, and can’t recall ever being called pious, it just never happens.
‘Inoffensive comedy’? Who decides, you Sophia? I am really, really puzzled as to what your motivations for posting on here are? We all understand that YOU and YOUR trans friend didn’t find this sketch offensive. We get it. What I don’t get though is why you feel so passionately that other people shouldn’t express the offense they felt. Daily Mail hater much? I would NEVER in an million years dream of going on a news story about something in the media that black people had found offensive and then telling those black people to ‘get over it’ because I didn’t have a problem with it. Arrogance? Just who the hell do YOU think YOU are? Just because you weren’t offended doesn’t mean you are right. Again: just because you are offended, doesn’t mean you arew right. You need to hear that again? I’m thrilled that you and your trans friend weren’t offended – that’s great. But you’re completetly ignoring the research which has been mentioned several times. Do you even have a trans friend??
Peck – How dare you speak to me like that? I have as much right as anyone to post here. I had this article forwarded to me via Twitter and was appalled at the furore at something so innocuous. So, are you suggesting that I am not allowed an opinion because I am not TG? What utter nonsense.
DO NOT call me arrogant, I think you’ll find it is you who are arrogant and incredibly aggressive actually. Just who the hell do you think you are exactly?
My point is, your declaration that this is ‘offensive’ is not the absolute truth you would like it to be. I brought up my TG friends and her extended friends, as I’m sure if I didn’t, I would be open to the abuse which I seem to be receive from you anyway. You are utterly idiotic if you think I have no right to speak purely because I am not TG.
And furthermore – ‘Peck’ , I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about ‘research? What on earth? There’s no research… Just a bunch of people who have declared they are offended. No you’re not right. Clearly this hurts you to pointed out. I am so sick of reactionary, knee-jerk witch hunts which seek to eradicate harmless humour on the basis of their own desire to complain about everything they see. How in the hell is this ‘research’ exactly? Think about what you’re saying, because it’s not making any sense at all. Your argument is utterly trounced by the fact you’ve been astoundingly dismissive and rude to me, attempting to exclude me from a debate because I’ve disagreed with what you say. Can you see the irony there?..Probably not. And to top it off, you’re now accusing me of being a liar and making up friends? You are disturbed and extraordinarily offensive.
Thanks for proving my point for me.
Peck – what we’re seeing here is the classic anger of privileged people when you call them on it. I’ve seen this up close and it’s never pretty. They HATE being called out because they want us to stay in our places and do what they tell us. Look how she reacts so angrily and offended at the mere implication of stupidity or dishonesty on her part and yet is quite happy to call her critics ‘idiots’ and to imply that they’re like the BNP! Textbook.
Sophia being rude and nasty again. Others have a right to speak. Another good point, thanks Peck, why are you so desperate to insist that there is nothing wrong with this? What experience or knowledge do you have? You certainly aren’t bright from the way your behaving, and I suspect that if you know a trans person they wouldn’t reveal their feelings to you because your such a bully quite frankly
I’m trans, certainly not the most ‘passable’ person and found this sketch quite funny but then I also enjoyed the family guy episode.
The sketch was clearly a commentary on the fact that while thai ‘ladyboys’ as seen in entertainment are often incredibly attractive and glamourous and not out of place as air stewardesses while the british tradition of men dressing up as women for entertainment often is grotesque.
It is damn annoying that so much fuss is being made about this and none about the portrayal of a not only passable but attractive transwoman on Doctors who after being found out proceeded to sit like a bloke and not object to being constantly called ‘he’ by a person who was ‘defending’ her right to exist. That was a hell of a lot worse and more more damaging than this.
As to positive portrayal of a trans woman on TV…..Haley in Coronation street maybe….the young girl on casualty last year?
Stop being victims and get on wiith living your lives
Funny how we get lots of phobic postings when everyone’s been out on a protest. You don’t have much experience Golden do you! I’ve seen transsexuals called he by other trans. people at trans. group meetings, not good but it happens. How come you don’t know this.
I’m tall, but I’ve had a n awful lot of emmbarressed blokes have to regain their composure in the past as soon as I spoke. In America they do, and cab afford to have much work done on their voices, because there is more freedom and TS aren’t ground down there the way they are here. That’s the difference, we all know quite well that there is little difference in build between here and the USA. The ladyboys are trans. not drag queens, I’m sure being trans. you know that though, so as has been said the bigotry is there clearly in the comparison.
Oh I don’t know…. I transitioned 12 years ago and worked in the public eye most of that time, so not much experience at all. I’ve not seen mobs of tranny hunters, never been chased out a changing room or toilet, never been attacked and I have lived in places where things like that happen. I have had comments, sure, but the UK is not as bad as people like to make out.
Some of us just don’t take ourselves so seriously as dealing with all this with a bit of humour is a lot easier than being angry all the time and demanding people be nice to us.
If your voice is causing such problems then sort it out… stop feeling sorry for yourself.
Please don’t assume that no fuss is being made about other problem content. Trans Media Watch endeavours to address problems in the media wherever they occur. It doesn’t release a press release in every instance but reserves those for situations in which items are particularly damaging and subject to widespread concern (as this thread itself indicates is the case with the Russell Howard sketch).
When we talk about items being damaging, we are basing that on research which shows that the media really does inspire abuse directed at people in real life. If you and your friends don’t find this a problem in your lives, that’s good, and I’m glad to hear it, but others do and we must consider their safety.
Absolutely spot on, Golden. In fact that’s very close to what my TG friend said.
Hannah – little of what you say makes any sense.
Jennie – I truly am astonished if you see this sketch as ‘particularly damaging’, I honestly am. And I am also concerned that you can lay the blame for intense hatred, transphobia and abuse at the door of something which is so completely non phobic and unrelated to TG reality and issues.
Nobody has said that abuse has not been a problem in their lives. I’ve been a first hand witness to it. What we are saying is, this sketch n question is not responsible for it and should not be made a scapegoat or used as an excuse for the behaviour of hate filled bigots.
Sophia, I quite agree that the influence of the media should never be used as an excuse for bigots. Transphobic prejudice is endemic in our society and that cannot be blamed on the media, but nevertheless the media does contribute to it and it can play a key role in helping to change that culture.
If you read through this thread (as I’m sure you have) you’ll not that this sketch caused severe distress to some viewers. It has also been used as a reference point in abuse directed at trans people. We find that incidents of abuse increase after material of this sort is broadcast.
You will note that the focus of our press release was the BBC’s dismissive response to the concerns voiced by many viewers. We do not wish to pillory Mr Howard – we would rather converse with him about the problems this has raised, but we need the BBC to take these concerns seriously.
Jennie – I really cannot see how we can sustain criticism of comedy such as this on the basis of vicious bigotry using it as an excuse.
I understand perfectly that there may be instances where media influences public opinion, of course and therefore there is a responsibility to portray characters accurately.
But this sketch was so far removed from this, as there was clearly no attempt to represent transgender people. It was far more a humourous comment on the less glamourous British way of doing things. If someone is going to abuse a person based on their TG status, then a sketch such as this is not going to provoke it. They will do it anyway.
The BBC’s response said all it could. There was no intent or malice behind the humour and the sketch in no way portrayed the TG community. If anyone is so lacking in decency, intelligence and consideration, that they would view this as a swipe intended to fuel their hatred, then nothing is going to improve their minds.
There are people in world who see someone famous behaving badly like Russel Howard, or Simon Cowell (a security guard was very nasty to me in the style of Simon Cowell, and I don’t go near any more), or Bernard Manning (I don’t think Chubby Brown is a god example – I’ve never seen him be abusive, but admittedly I haven’t seen him much) and they see people laughing, and suddenly you see them start imitating it.
The obvious example is the Little Britain I’m a Lady stuff. I wear trousers nearly all the time, don’t bother much with make-up at the moment, and even I’ve had the “I’m a lady chants” by adolescent groups, so please don’t give me any rubbish about it isn’t true and doesn’t happen. No effects on me much, but some people are really devastated, and I think it’s a crap person that says that it’s thier fault they’re devastated.
Sophia, I don’t think anyone is saying this sketch is responsible for the behaviour of all hate filled bigots, it just adds to it. And no one is trying to use it as a scapegoat, this sketch is amongst many that I am sure the trans community are trying to put a stop to. And so they should. White men should not badly ‘black up’ to poke fun at black people and non trans people should not badly ‘trans up’ to poke fun at trans and straight men should not badly ‘gay up’ to poke fun at gay people. Simple. I know it’s a terrible shame that white heterosexual comedians will soon have no harmless minority to take the plss out of. They can’t do black, can’t do trans, can’t do Jews, can’t do gays, oh well, who will they pick on next? Comedy should attack those who need laughing at. The fact that you are so adamant in not seeing the hurt caused to the trans community posting on here is proof of your transphobia, and your love for Russell Howard.
Eddy – you are a childish imbecile. You are seeking arguments and peddling your aggression and it is appalling. If you are so blinkered and insistent on your own single minded witch hunt agenda, then you go on. I’m sick of this attitude which seeks out fury and offence that simply isn’t there. Your attitude is unbelievable. How dare you speak for the trans community as a whole? I’m telling you that you are not. Not everyone is offended and sees the sketch for what is was. And the ‘love for Russell Howard’ comment? Are you for real? I happened to mention I’ve met him and he’s a really decent guy and you talk to me like I’m a lovestruck fan? Grow the hell up.
And futhermore DO NOT call me transphobic. You know nothing of me, my surroundings experience and background and that accusation is unutterably sickening. I am astonished by the way some of you have spoken to me here. THIS is offensive bullying and sadly you wouldn’t have the intelligence or empathy to realise that irony would you?
Sophia – you are very quick to clutch your pearls and act offended when people call YOU stupid. Kindly show the same respect to other people on this forum by not referring to them as ‘childish imbeciles’.
Eddie has been very polite, his crime I think is to show your stupidity. I can see you aren’t a good enough human being to show him the same respect he has shown you, which is why I haven’t much bothered to treat you with much respect.
by it’s existence this sketch legitimises an insulting attitude to trans people
Hannah – By reading over these aggressive and unpleasant comments, and judging by your unhinged and nonsensical posts, I think it’s become apparent that you are posting under multiple names here. That in itself is fairly odd and disturbing, but what is almost laughable, is the fact that you have reacted with utter aggression ( + Eddy, who I am assuming is one of your pseudonyms) and vitriol because I haven’t agreed with you. I’ll think you’ll find it is YOU who have been rude and bullyish. We’ve been brought up very differently if you think accusing me of transphobia is in any way polite. You know nothing of my life and to accuse me of something so hideous is beyond words. Now at least have the grace and guts to stop using your alter egos, eh?
Paranoia Soaphy, I have only posted here under my own name I can assure you,
and there is also an apparent link between violent games and violence which is also complete fiction pushed by the daily mail and other hateful ignorant papers
The film with Chucky in was on last night Chester. I saw it briefly, but despite my love of horror films couldn’t watch it because of what happened to James Bulger – it cane straight into my head his picture, seeing Chucky. How come you don’t feel any love for others Chester, and sick at their injustice
maybe Chester is a mature adult capable of understanding when something is is truly offensive, and isn’t just a little scared shut-in who wets shimself when a joke comes on the TV. Maybe Chester has a life? Maybe Chester has better things to worry about?
Incidentally, as well as working for Trans Media Watch, I’m a film journalist and I would be the first to point out that the association of ‘Child’s Play’ with the Bulger case was a newspaper fabrication. There is in fact very little evidence to suggest that material of that sort causes violence (and there is some evidence that suggests the opposite).
The problem with media items which ridicule trans people (intentionally or otherwise) is that there is evidence of a link to how trans people are treated in real life. This isn’t about making a knee jerk response to anything that seems upsetting. It’s about looking at what the evidence tells us and expressing concern where concern is due.
as said – the sketch was nothing to do with trans people and if someone is gonna hate then they’ll hate regardless,
@Jennie Kermode – do you have any links for the evidence you refer to please?
“scared” no not scared you ignorant, arrogant (to assume you know) insulting fool. sick of – I don’t want to have to justify and argue my existance to an air head like you all the time because you just want a punch bag to knock the XXXXX out of for your own amusement.
“scared” no not scared you ignorant, arrogant (to assume you know) insulting fool. sick of – I don’t want to have to justify and argue my existance to an air head like you all the time because you just want a punch bag to knock the XXXXX out of for your own amusement.?????
In fact actually the assumption that I am scared, rather than just plain p****d off with having to deal with a few very vocal and persistant haters clearly shows your prejudice.
WHo said I don’t feel pain at other injustices? As for Chucky – the first and second we’re cool but the third was dumb and they are making a remake apparently, there’s too many dumb papers and others always linking stuff which is not proven like games to violence,
You can find our own research on our website at http://www.transmediawatch.org.uk There are further studies available on the Press For Change site. Another major study is currently in progress, having been commissioned by Channel 4, and should be published later this year.
Further to this, we receive regular communications from trans members of the public talking about how media items have directed them. Anecdotal evidence must not, of course, be given too much weight in itself, but it confirms what the studies have shown and suggests this is an ongoing problem.
We are currently developing a research study looking at how non-trans people perceive and understand trans people and to what extent the media affects that. We hope this will further inform the debate.
anecdotes (to me) is better as it is more personal
I’ll look at the link soon
I’ve been following this comment thread since Thursday and its difficult not to find some of the vitriol demoralising.
of course its not always easy to find the right words to express ourselves when passions run high, heaven knows I struggle at the best of times to express myself clearly, but perhaps the passionate expression of upset, anger and fears of the Trans members of the wider LGBT community that have been expressed here can tell us a great deal about the depth of feeling being felt on all aspects of this? The sketch, the BBC response and the knock on effects of such?
Can I find the words to adequately express my own depth of feeling on this? Not yet, unfortunately, but a quote I read by John Amaechi earlier summed it up. Applicable to all LGBT issues I feel.
“If injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, then the relative power of an antigay gay slur is irrelevant, it is simply a threat to human dignity, and that should appall us all.”
Hi, I’m Soapy Forrel and *I* wasn’t offended by the furore on this news story at all and just because you were offended by others being offended does not mean that you are right. My friend is a person and they weren’t offended by the furore either, nor were their friend’s friends, who are also people. So, basically, if you’re offended by this furore, then just don’t read it. Seriously, some people clearly just go around looking for something to be offended by, like other people’s offence. Think about what you’re saying, because it’s not making any sense at all. Your argument is utterly trounced by the fact you’ve been astoundingly offended by something which genuinely has nothing to do with you. Your arrogance offends me.
Many trans. people are daily being harrassed to the sound of “I’m a lady”. I tend to get around in trousers with no make-up, and even I’ve been jeered at with the “I’m a lady line”. As I’ve said there are a great many people on here who are just plain ignorant of trans. lives, and yet they have the arrogance, conceit, and contempt to tell us what happens in our lives. You haven’t got a clue, so don’t be so nasty as to deny someone else’ suffering. What exactly makes your knowledge authorative, when you have zero experince? and above people who do have experience!!!
Wow.. Oh dear.
You’ve really shown yourself to be of the moral high ground there. Well done. What an embarrassing show you’ve made of yourself.
I really feel sorry for you actually. You expect me to respond in an adult manner. What an utter fool.
one question – why do you have two different names?
Chester – Are you referring to me? Because I can assure you, I most certainly do not have two different names. Although I seem to be in a minority in that respect. If you referring to the frankly embarrassing post attempting to parody my name, then obviously that’s not me.
was pretty funny though huh? and i have to say for your paranoid self, not my work.
Erm, no actually Hannah. Not paranoia – intelligence. It’s obvious a mile off with your ‘unique’ posting style that you are operating under different names.
Oh and no, the above attempt at parody was not funny actually, pretty embarrassing to be honest.
Oh and the earlier spin on my name you gave, ‘Soaphy’.. do you think yourself as quite the comedian? I think your making something of a fool of yourself as it happens.
As illegible as your posts are, I seem to detect an insistence on what constitutes offensive. Seems you have quite skewed ideas, seeing as you quite happy to be very aggressive and unpleasant to me? I think you need to grow up.
……can someone tell me why this is a story on a gay news site. Any trans people especially female to male i have ever met, have been adamant that they weren’t gay and didn’t want to be “lumped in with fa**ots”
The trans man who said that line to me in the USA got a black eye for his trouble but it has coloured how i feel about trans ever since.
It is the main reason i only ever put GLB when referring to the Gay community.
Anyone care to comment and please without the usual abuse common on these pages. I would like to see an honest open discussion without accusations of ignorance transphobia etc,etc…..
Thanks paddyswurds for openly showing your transphobia. I can reaveal for your ignorant self that we are not all gay haters, and that in fact I’m bisexual, so really please stop showing how LGB people can be as bigoted as anyone else. I would urge you not to abuse and physically assult people if you don’t like what hey say it just make syou a thug and a criminal. For your information I have actively at personal expense to myself pushed for equality for LGBT, disabled, and ethnic groups all my life, so please learn that you prejudiced assumptions of guilt are just assumptions.
I’m here because I’m bisexual and therefore as entitled to be here as you – this is another point about the thich and ignorant that is disgusting – the point that T means not LGB. It’s just rubbish.
Perhaps a little basic info on what prejudice is here would be helpful, since some people don’t actually understand properly. If you lump all people in a group together and assume that say all big nosed people are lazy, because you met one lazy big nosed person, that’s prejudice. You aren’t seeing the person, just dehumanizing so you can scapegoat.
Hello, I’m Sloppy Fartface, and what i say goes, so if you inferior mental defectives don’t like it you should just bow to the word of the master race like me or the rest of the Conservative party. The poor should not be educated, it gives them ideas above their station. This is me Sloppy, get it? I’d have to be pretty damn nifty to write all the stuff on here written in my name, and then write other postings as well. I just don’t have that much time.
Who the hell has the right to tell someone what they should and should not find offensive. Some on here seem to think if they don’t find something offensive then nobody should find it offensive, an attitude i find offensive.
To quote George Orwell – “The aim of a joke is not to degrade the human being, but to remind him that he is already degraded.”
This sketch wasn’t funny, and it was offensive towards transsexuals. Whether that was the intention or not doesn’t really matter, that was the outcome of the sketch. If you don’t like that, that’s YOUR problem.
@Paddyswurds – It’s not a gay news website, it is a LGBT news website, but i guess you don’t want it to be that. What i will suggest you do is to piss off somewhere else, where you can talk to fellow narrow minded people. xx
Amber it seems to me that you are just irked that others have a different opinion to you. You may have found it offensive but that doesn’t identify it as a offensive. It’s just your opinion. So in actual fact, it’s YOUR problem actually. The rest of us who didn’t find it offensive at all are fine. It’s not up to anyone else to be accountable for others inabilities to see A JOKE. Get a sense of humour for thor’s sake.
Before anyone asks, I am a trans female. With a finely tuned sense of humour.
For heavens sake, it may or may not have been intended to be offensive but it’s clear people were offended. That makes it BY DEFINITION offensive. I was offended. It was in poor taste and the woman vomiting part was really off. It was used in Ace Ventura when he vomited after finding he was with a trans woman and was just as offensive then. Same message whatever the intent. That’s my feeling. I felt demeaned. I felt sick.Telling me (as has happened) that somehow I should be feeling something else is simple arrogance.
I am looking forward to the day when comedy doesn’t feel the need to parody others in a demeaning way to get a laugh.
Why are you not getting this? Nobody is telling you, you need to feel something else. You are offended, yes we get it, My point is, there are many people who aren’t. That doesn’t mean they’re in the right, just as that doesn’t mean you are in the right. You are wrong when you say this makes it, ‘BY DEFINITION’ offensive. No it doesn’t. Declaring it offensive from some, does not equal a ‘by definition’ label. There will always be at least one person in the world who is offended by something, so by your reckoning – everything is offensive? That to me, is the arrogance.you speak of. I’ve not told anyone what to feel, but there’s is an extraordinarily defensive attitude from some because I’ve dared to contradict them.
Sophia, the question you should probably be asking yourself instead of others is ‘why are you not getting this’? Trans people found the sketch offensive. I found it offensive for the trans community, I’m not trans, but I know it was offensive. Why can’t you just get that the trans community – the trans media watch – found the sketch offensive. Therefore the sketch is offensive to the trans community. I suspect people could just repeat this to you again and again and again, but you still wouldn’t get that the sketch was offensive to the trans community. btw, some black people actually go and watch roy chubby brown, it doesn’t mean the guy isn’t racist.
Well I’m rather loathed to respond to anyone who would call me transphobic, as you did yesterday. But do NOT patronise me. YOU finding it OFFENSIVE does not make it unquestionably offensive. You CANNOT speak for the trans community as whole. Because not everyone found it offensive. In fact, many didn’t. An appointed group (trans media watch) are also not the arbiters of offensive material. They declare it to be, so it is?
So your opinion and those who agree with you is of more importance than my friends? Disregarded are they, because they don’t agree? You found it offensive, we.get.it.
That does not mean it is. Many others were not offended. There are people who will complain about pretty much everything broadcast, claiming it offends them. So, by your definition and arrogance ( you have no right to speak for a whole community of people), then everything is offensive is it? I suspect I could say this over and over again, which I have, but I doubt you would get it.
You keep on saying being offended doesn’t make it right. There is no right. There is simply being offended or not being offended. I was offended and therefore it was offensive. *by definition*.
Some time ago in Australia a program had Harry Connick Junior on as a guest and actually ran a segment with “the blacked out faces thing”. He was offended and said so. The host apologised. He meant no offence but had caused offence and was sorry. This is no different. A significant section of the trans community is offended. It may not have been intended but that is the result. An apology for the offense caused would be an appropriate response. I don’t see what part of this that you are not getting.
So, Sophie, if some people aren’t offended by something, it’s not offensive? Then nothing is offensive. How do you actually define ‘offensive’ using your made-up rule? How ‘many’ people’ need to find it offensive before you class something as offensive? “Offensive” Does the dictionary say how many people Sophie? In Sophie’s World, paedophilia is not offensive because – presumably – there are lots of peadophiles out there who are not offended by it. Racism would be similarly not-offensive because, using Sophie’s logic, there are ‘many’ racist people out there who are not offended by it. I could go on. Sophie did. Sophie, you’ve made yourself look like a bit of a prune quite frankly; coming on here, spending so much time and energy getting upset, angry, agressive and paranoid in your noble quest to prove this sketch isn’t offensive. Sophie, you’re an anus. I’m sure many people won’t be offended by that statement so, Sophie, you’ll must agree – it’s wasn’t offensive!
Gee, it sure is privileged around here!
There is nothing more disgusting on these threads than hearing non-trans individuals telling trans people to “suck it up” and stop “over-reacting”. They don’t have a single f***ing clue how high the deck is stacked against trans people. I may be cis, but at least I recognise the unknown and try to show some respect.
Also, the never-posted-befores all of a sudden popping up, claiming to be trans and saying how inoffensive they found this are mighty suspicious…
“never before’s posting” – a great point, thanks for that, I’m noting it down!
Yeah I mean why would trans people be posting on a LGBT story on a LGBT site? You’re right there, suspicious is that. Jeez
Some people still have a sense of humour. Hows about that for a reason?
Ive never posted before but I tell you something which does offend me; A suggestion that Im pretending to be trans for some bizarre reason. Thanks for that. The years of hell Ive had must be all a figment of my fertile imagination. Thats what I get for disagreeing with you then?
So Lucy so you honestly think that there aren’t groups like fundamentalist christians, like the ultra-right wing who would organise their “troups” to go out and post against certain groups for the hell of it? And your streetwise? I have come across these peole and groups occassionally so don’t tell me it doesn’t exist. And as said many, many different posters appearing, who never appeared before, and want to post ONLY on this thread. You don’t think that’s a little strange?
For me trans peoples are an inspiration and should be given the respect they deserve. In ancient cultures /societies ironically, trans and gay peoples were revered and appreciated as being gatekeepers to the laterlife. Where is the progression? that some speak of? actual regression in regard to acceptance of diversity .
Hi there paddyswurds
No you will never get it will you, if it was not for the T girls and the drag queens
There would have not been a stonewall or any Gay rights at that time.
We know that the LGB have never liked us T girls, you do not want us in your bars, you do not wants us at your pried.
I bet you would not even want to be seen in the street as a Transsexual. Do you Paddyswurds
Hell you lot did not like the Bis when they started to come out of the wood work./
You Gays did not even like Quentin Crisp he was to camp for you lot.
We are not men who play at dress up, mtfs we are not men at all, we are stuck in limbo. What man would do this to themselves? Not one.
So if you want to ask me , or get in to a debate,
I can be e mailed at firstname.lastname@example.org
So Paddyswurds why do you not like us Transsexuals
Back to you
I’m a gay man , very comfortable with my masculinity and femininity, so hence ,obviously hate transphobia from insecure gay men who think they are assumed as straight acting, what a laugh!. I have no probs with guys who are rough as ole boots or camp as xmas, only those who pretend and are insecure with their own femininity, so deflect hatred on others. And i must say there are other minorities in the lgbt scene who feel as u do, racism is also a big issue in the lgbt scene , alternative peeps who are too hardcore looking for the clones etc ….Not all gay men are insecure in the company of trans peeps , there are some of us who really respect and appreciate the trans communitys contribution to fight for equality. Quentin crisp is like jesus in 4011, just some of us are more evolved and recognise his significance and legacy now. Also i was hanging out with transexuals when i was 13, albeit friends of me mum, put please do not tar all gay men with the same brush .
Tanya, just ignore Paddy. He would argue with no one on an empty thread. I feel sorry for the guy to be honest. I just hope I’m not as bitter as he is at his age (he tells everyone he is 60).
……I dont get where you got the idea that I hate Trans people and all asked was why are they lumped with GLBs. Any i have ever met, including April Ashley, always maintained that they weren’t gay and really didn’t like being lumped in with “queers or faggots”, their words btw not mine. My contention is that if they aren’t gay as they say, then why hang on to our coattails?. I asked for a sensible discussion but the very first reply to my post screamed transphobia. I have no fear or otherwise of anyone never mind trans people. Why should I. They have no bearing on my life. I was merely asking a question in an attempt to steer the convo away from the endless roundabout of whether a silly and so not funny sketch on the telly which anyone with any culture wouldn’t have seen anyway as these so called “comedy” shows are so downmarket and really are only made for the edification of your average Sun buyer. cont…………..
cont……….You’ll have noticed I said buyer rather than reader as this sort usually dont have any great reading ability….was or wasn’t transphobic. I wouldn’t waste my time watching such trash so whether or not it was is irrelevant to me being that i am Gay not trans and couldn’t possible empathiseas to what a trans would find phobic. Again i am not trans phobic or indeed anythingphobic. At 60 years old one has enough experience under ones belt to have learned that such concerns tend to be vexatious of the spirit and are best ignored for ones well being.
Two more points occured to me over night, relevant to the arguments some are trying to advance here, coming out of a Brechtian alienation perspective. 1)Freedom of art – the works involving this hate are very tiny, and for most other groups are already covered, so this would have little effect on the freedom of art to hate. Given that the impact would be so small why do some see it as so important to keep this?
2)The hating minority keep trying to represent themselves as the moral majority. They aren’t. Most people hate witch hunting and skapegoating of minorities, and these people are very much in the minority. I remember them as adult figures in my childhood, and how like McCarthy style witch hunters they were disliked for their nasty blaming ways, by all the other adults, but they did not dare say anything to them, for fear they would turn their hate on them.
To clarify as well, no one is blaming here we are simply trying to get a source of ghetto mentality, and isolating of a group removed.
Pretentious twaddle much?
So clever and superior mindless insults, if you think it’s rubbish demonstrate why it’s rubbish, otherwise you just shoe what an ***hole you are
“Your a lady”, call you pretentious. “Your a lady” call you overly sensitive. “Your a lady” call scared. etc……never actually consider and think about what is being said, just dissmiss it because “Your a lady”
I can see your an educated man Gary.
Incidentally a lot of wether we are the victims of the bullies has a lot to do with power here, and there can be no doubt that we are the group who they are attempting to deny power.
I think that the phrase “I’m a lady” should find it’s way into more works of art really, to immortalise the hate campaign that is going on in this period of time. So I will be putting this characture into my own stuff, kind of quoting it in a postmodern way, because it so clearly represents the attempts to disempower that are being carried onat present.
Thanks paddyswurds for openly showing your transphobia, it’s important for all the people like you to say this. I can reaveal for your ignorant self that we are not all gay haters, and that in fact I’m bisexual, so really please stop showing how LGB people can be as bigoted as anyone else. I would urge you not to abuse and physically assult people if you don’t like what hey say it just make syou a thug and a criminal. For your information I have actively at personal expense to myself pushed for equality for LGBT, disabled, and ethnic groups all my life, so please learn that you prejudiced assumptions of guilt are just assumptions.
I’m here because I’m bisexual and therefore as entitled to be here as you – this is another point about the thich and ignorant that is disgusting – the point that T means not LGB. It’s just rubbish.
Perhaps a little basic info on what prejudice is here would be helpful, since some people don’t actually understand properly. If you lump all people in a group to
….see above post.I can’t be bothered with your rude shouty insecurities….
Well actually Paddyswurds, I don’t know if you noticed but I kind of trawl through this every few hours to make sure any innaccurate stuff doesn’t go unchallenged. It’s not an attitude that is likely to inspire too much emotion. I aim to reply pretty much in the tone that is used originally. I’m too old for insecurities, seen it all and heard it all amny times before, but it is still important to make sure misleading statements are challenged.
Folks, folks, everyone needs to calm down a bit.
Okay, some people didn’t find it offensive, those of us who did can not make those who didn’t suddenly change their minds, we can’t speak for them, we can only speak for ourselves and those like us who were offended.
Those who weren’t offended correspondingly should not be having a go at those who did, just because they don’t understand why others were offended.
If 100 people watch something and 1 person is offended does that then mean that the persons feelings are then invalid because 99 people thought it was ok? Or do they have the right to complain about it? Should those who want to not be allowed to complain because others didn’t find offensive?
Or should you be free to complain if you feel strongly about something?
If you feel that something was offensive then complain, if you didn’t then don’t. It really is THAT simple. Those who weren’t offended are unlikely to see why people were and so there is little point in metaphorically hitting someone over the head with it. No point in arguing. Take the fight to the BBC, to the BBC Trust and Ofcom. Support Trans Media Watch and leave those who don’t agree that this sketch was offensive to themselves.
There’s nothing wrong with explaining why you – we – found it offensive, but getting involved in a slagging match with those who didn’t, just makes them cling tighter to their beliefs
….you got to be kidding. This lot don’t do calm. You’ll be lucky if they don’t start screaming calmphobia at you or some other such ephithet of the insecure and deluded…….or taken out an summarily lynched on the tree of self righteousness…………..!!
you saying …phobia etc is only ever seen by the deluded etc? you aren’t doing yourself any favours
…… My point which you either didn’t recognise or chose to ignore was that we are speaking contextually. If you’re insecure enough to be bothered by homophobia or any such phobia, you are deluded if you think screaming about it will make any difference.
Phobia of the kind we speak of is a disease of the ignorant and no amount of shouting is going to make the ignorant less ignorant, possibly deaf but not less ignorant. Obviously we aren’t on these pages talking about phobias such as that of flyiing etc. just before some idiot starts screaming ephithets about these.
You make very transphobic comments and then say people are terrible if they point out your errors. Sorry to break your stereotype, but we are not a lot of histrionic trans women. April Ashley also doesn’t like psychiatric nurses, and since I’m one of those do you think I should be a trans. hater as well? Regarding tabloids etc. I love good popular culture, but also love the classics. Last book i read was MR James Ghost stories, so that part isn’t true either. It is important to discuss and try to learn from others as well as correcting misconceptions when you see them I think, so I don’t agree about not arguing things through – it’s important to argue things through in whatever tone, otherwise you just leave bigotry and ignorance, and allow it to be presumed correct.
Sorry Hannah but who was this in reference to? My argueing comment was in regards to it clearly not making any difference to some people what is said and how much is explained to them.
sorry OrtharRrith just doing a comment from a bit further back at the same time for Nicknackpaddywack. I do think that arguing has some occasional positive effects, but lynching on the tree of self-righteousness for soem sounds good to me. I’m in the top posters, getting a bit worried.
sorry this is/was Hannah did a joke (not veyry good a bit back) on someone’s name.
…Perhaps you would care to point out what i said that was transphobic or where i said trans women were histrionic. I have no problem or never would say people are terrible when they do point out my erroer, which few ever do. All one gets is screams of transphobia or homophobia etc without any detailof what was wrong. Please don’t do the same in this instance.
Your point about Ms Ashley made no sense at least not contextually, especially as i didn’t say Ms Ashley said anything you could possibly construe as transphobic. And your contention that the Sun is pop culture is sad to say the least. There is only one use for the Sun and that is to line the floor of a budgie cage One can hardly call Mr James Ghost stories as classics …what about reading JD Salingers Catcher in the Rye or Harper Lee’s To kill a Mockingbird or even Orwells 1984, which would open up your mind and make you more open to frank debate and realistic discussion rather than hurling cheap ephithets.
the sketch was nothing to do with trans folk anyway
trans news is on this site as LBGT means lesbian, bi, gay and trans
people who hate don’t care that the sketch wasn’t about trans nor that Russell is cool and not a bigot
Don’t see how you can say that Chester. The original news article was about Thai airlines employing Katoi (trans women) for the first time. I get the low budget british version thing but the total effect is a parody of trans women. It’s the “You’re not real women” thing that we spend our lives fighting. And when you spend your life fighting that sort of stuff this ‘skit’ is not only not funny, .Iit’s offensive.
….Do you seriously think that if an archeologist type person were to dig up your bones in a thousand years time he will think they are the bones of a woman?
While going under a knife and rebuilding your body from the way it was born may placate your state of mind, the reality is that it is genetically the body of a man and merely looks vaguely like a woman
. So when someone says “You are not a real woman” they, like it or not, are being factually correct and no amount of bluster and screams of transphobia from you will change that. What you are in reality is a eunoch dressed up as a woman who has stuffed his body full of female hormones in an effort to look like a woman.
I am not transphobic. I have no feelings in any way about what other people want to be called, or do with their bodies etc. Non of it has any bearing on my life as a gay man and to care would be vexatious to the spirit and best avoided.
I am, pure and simple, a realist.
Anyone who has your attitude will never understand and most of our day to day hassles come from people with an attitude such as yours, As soon as you refuse to accept that gender can be in the mind the rest of the rubbish we get day to day follows. For transwomen you are pure and simply a cisgendered bigot.
……Um, Hello…..”While going under a knife and rebuilding your body from the way it was born may placate your state of mind,”
What exactly do you think i meant by that statement?
Another shouter who chooses not to read the whole post or ignores parts so that she can scream “cisgendered bigot” does not advance your argument one iota. I clearly accepted that your condition is a state of mind and i again state that i accept it. Stating the realistic and obvious does not in any way make me a transphobic bigot. As i also said and you chose to ignore that i have no feelings about your condition whatever. My attitude to this sort of thing is and has always been “whatever floats your boat” So go back and reread my origonal comment and have another think. i think it is you rather than me who is the bigot or at least has a chip on her shoulder which is not of my making.
Paddy, you are transphobic. And disgusting to leave a comment like that on a LGBT news site. You’re a vile and bitter old man.
…..what exactly was transphobic about my comment? what exactly was disgusting about it and what about it makes me vile or for that matter old about it? The comment was in direct response to gwens post where she decried people who say “your not a real woman.” As i pointed out i couldnt care less how anyone wants to live their life aslong as it doesn’t transgress mine. I expect you to respond to my questions without the usual shouts otransphobic, bigot etc. You have already done that so repaeting it will not win the argument for you. The ball is firmly in your court. Answers please.