No, most gay men just do fit in. most of us are just average guys.
Synonyms: boilerplate, common, commonplace, customary, dime a dozen, everyday, fair, fair to middling, familiar, garden*, garden-variety, general, humdrum*, intermediate, mainstream, mediocre, medium, middle of the road, middling, moderate, nowhere, ordinary, passable, plastic, regular, run of the mill, so-so, standard, tolerable, undistinguished, unexceptional, usual
Antonyms: abnormal, atypical, exceptional, extraordinary, extreme, outstanding, unusual
i know where I fit in
….thing is, when i discovered i was gay it was because i fancied MEN. At 6 years old this was a scarey discovery although while i knew i was attracted to boys i didn’t know why and was definitely scared by the prospect. When at twelve i had my first gay experience it was still men i was attracted to. Now at 60 i’m still attracted to men and in the intervening years it was always men, not simpering painted and limpwristed “queens” or psuedo women. I have always found overly camp mincing gay men excruciatingly embarassing and what the “straight” world think of as gay when i reveal that i am gay.
In other words i am a normal man who happens to love men.
A sad old bitter queen like you, i’d say ur the embarassment. It’s your problem if you have a chip on your shoulder cause of how other peeps want to dress/behave .
…….sad and bitter is so far removed from my life as to be another universe. I am glad to say i have lived a full and satisfied life in every was and am still doing. On the contrary you are the one who comes across as sad and bitter whatever age you are. perhaps if you had lived as a mand and not as a sad queen trying to emulate women you would now be more satisfied and fulfilled. All your posts are the cry of a very sad and bitter person who is perpetually at odds with himself and the world.
…**in every way*
just repeat what i told u, you’re too dumb to have a comeback. I really hit a nerve with u did’nt i, a very tiny nerve.
So is being camp is abnormal?
The problem is we all get tarred with the same stereotypical brush. I was much the same as Paddy, but I was over 30 when I figured I was gay, because I thought gay men were either mincing queens or hairy moustachioed blokes out some “Tom of Finland” picture, and I’m neither of those, so I can’t be gay.
I think public perception of gay people is slowly changing, but I can fully understand why the more extroverted of our kind can embarrass the rest of us.
I have always found overly camp mincing gay men excruciatingly embarassing and what the “straight” world think of as gay when i reveal that i am gay.
In other words i am a normal man who happens to love men.
thats internalised homophobia you should see someone about that
Yes indeed and from the very person who blasts all others too.
He’s nothing but a big ol hypocrite.
@jock and james!, yes paddy is the ultimate victim, bigot, racist , hypocrite who shows no solidarity with other lgbt. He is snide, bitchy, backbiting , a very unpleasant nasty person. I don’t take him seriously, only to take the mick outta him at this stage but i do hope for him he sorts out his issues around homophobia.
He’s a bit like Spanner. On the HIV blood donation thread Spanner claimed to have been celebate for aroung 10 years but i’m sure he said he had a man he’s so full of poop
@ 3 bitter cottage queens….
…..the three of you should spend less time cottageing and trolling the “gay saunas” and get out into the real world. Sad, bitter and deluded. Have a coven somewhere, “girls”? The whole real world is laughing at you and your pitiful illiterate bleatings on these threads proves it. Sad parodies of men.
Why is it internalised homophobia? Does gay automatically mean fem? Is that what you are saying? I dont like fem gay OR straight guys. You DO know straight guys can be fem to right??
In other words i am a normal man who happens to love men.
do I have to spell it out?
What his comment implies to me is that he has a problem with the world equating gay people with camp people, which ironically it sounds like you have by taking his disapproval of camp men as disapproval of gay men i.e. “homophobia”.
I personally have the same annoyance of the world immedately thinking all gay men are camp though I have no problem against camp guys.
So is being camp abnormal? I guess youd think that if you were using the hetrosexual maile as the benmchmark of normality
I’m sorry but is that question directed at me (seeing as it did come after I said something)? Assuming we are specifically talking about gay guys I personally would say being camp is normal. But I personally am a fan of abnormality.
By the way, you might of got Spanner confused with me. I too, said I’ve been celibate for the past years. Which is true by the way.
Rapture “Paddy is the ultimate victim, bigot, racist , hypocrite who shows no solidarity with other lgbt. He is snide, bitchy, backbiting , a very unpleasant nasty person.”
Flattery will get you nowhere. So what about his bad side? ;)
Sounds like a typical gay man to me.
James: I am happily married thanks. Partnership does not always equate to shagging each other senseless you know.
Bull Spanner I dont beleive you
“limpwristed” i’ve never met a gay man who had limp wrists only elderly people with arthritic conditions. There u go again pads , using more homophobic stereotyping.
Really you havent? I have..
@paddy , lighten up you old mary , you’ll give yourself a stroke. lol.
Gotta admit that comment of his was hilarious. Good for a chuckle.
Which one? i’ve lost count. He’s getting bit tedious now though.
@jock , oh yea just read it , makes us sound like the stygian witches grappling for the eye.
I know, I’m still chuckling over it now. What an image.
Yes fine whatever you want to call it, better than looking like a complete mess. The individuality you so clearly seek is an illusion. I dont think ive ever seen a truly individual dressing and acting person, everyone is a type.
The sad thing is the most ‘flamboyant’ ones are often the most conformist of all.
Agreed on “the most ‘flamboyant’ ones are often the most conformist of all” statement. I however disagree with the “everyone is a type” thing, I personally feel I am quite an unique person and don’t follow rules of stereotypes or society or whatever and rather follow the principle “I like, what I like”
It doesnt mean there is no one like you though, in the broadest sense. Sure you are individual, as am i, but being outgoing and ‘odd’ compaired to social norms doesnt mean unique any more than being fairly average in most ways makes a person non-unique.
the problem is the flamboyuant, or cam or fem types often think they are unique, but really are 10 a penny. Im also 10 a penny, i dont pretend otherwise.
I think the most important words have to be “Each to their own” it’s what makes us All special!
That’s true, it sort of reminds me of the time when I saw an Adiddas advert using the line “celibrate originality”, which is basically saying to be original you have to buy the same as everyone else, it’s just completely backwards thinking.
Very true Jock, it’s along that sort of thinking that I have come to accept there are gay guys that genuinely are camp though I’m a bit questionable on how many camp guys are actually camp.
It doesn’t matter so long as they are happy and getting on with life, hopefully with prejuduce.
George is a tired old drag queen who thinks being gay means wearing make up and bright hats. Nothing wrong with men in make up and bright hats, but I’ve never wanted to emulate quentin crisp myself.
Neither did I and I wasn’t gonna wear straight drag either.
Justin Beiber (smells of hairspray) style is the gold standard for most young gay and straight guys now (lol)… I guess nobody wants to be mistaken for an old/New Romantic.
What is straight drag? Again you demonstrate very rigid ideas of that people are supposed to be. How conformist of you.
What is interesting though is although I’m not a fan of drag shows meself, the amount of straight people esp men who love it which in it own way is comforting.
@ Jock, that possibly comes back to the thought that a lot of drag is pretty misogynistic at core.
Erm, no I wouldn’t say that. I think it may go along the lines of pigeon-holing gay people though.
yes i agree with you, not many have the strenght to follow in Quentins footsteps.
there is no such thing as ‘average’
say together after me: “we’re all individuals!”
people have the strength to be themselves which is more important
You can be yourself and not look like a mess. Why is it so hard to understand? ‘Individual’ is an illusion. Ive never seen anyone truly unique, everyone is a type.
You may think ur not a mess , others may disagree. people can be fattist, body fascists etc or as you said earlier , you don’t like camp men, fair enough but some on these threads are displaying hatred at anyone who does dress differently or have different mannerisms. I would defend overweight people etc who are despised by some gay people just as equally . Each to their own and everyone has their own taste.
I dont HATE camp men, i hate being told i must be hiding something simply because im not. Im not conforming, wearing straight drag or any of those things, im being me, just as much as any flamboyant gay man is.
Actually you make a very valid point. I’ve had that esp from straight men. I think it’s all to do with thinking they can tell and labelling us. They fear if we are just like them they might have to question themselves. It’s all a tad pathetic. Give me the happy to be Straight around Gay men, men anyday.
But seriously, it’s a big old world. Some of us like to dress up like Boy George/ Leigh Bowery/ Danny La Rue, some of us feel more comfortable in bog standard jeans and a T-shirt. There’s nowt WRONG about either.
In my opinion we have a lot to be thankful to the original stonewall rioters for putting us on the map, and if some of us want to camp it up that’s fine by me.
That said I don’t consider myself a self-loathing closeted queen just because I’m not dolled up like a bird of paradise.
It’s not a war, and we’re just as bad as the homophobes if we’re trying to impose our personal dress code on each other. I’m comfortable in my jeans and t-shirt, just as comfortable as Boy George is in a big pink felt hat with eyeliner and a feather boa.
What’s to be gained from a wardrobe swap other than feeling like you’re emulating someone else’s style?
Gay people come in all colours, just like straight people. The only part I signed up for is being attracted to men. Vive la difference
You dont have to copy anyone but I read that some people hate camp or effiminate men. Thats prejudice and discrimination. If you dislike a persons character thats fine but to say you hate all camp men is as bad as saying you hate all queers
@ James!: but I think (hope) very few people say they hate all camp men, I’d say that a number of people just aren’t keen on the manner – it doesn’t mean they hate the individuals.
I dislike overly macho straight-male posturing, it doesn’t mean I hate all straight men.
Read some of the bile directed towards camp men. I’d say that a number of people just aren’t keen on the manner – it doesn’t mean they hate the individuals.
f me is that love the sinner hate the sin
@ James!: no, because sin doesn’t enter into it. But disliking posturing – macho, camp, whatever – or finding it boring or tiresome doesn’t necessarily equate to hate.
James – that’s precicely my point. I don’t know where you got “I hate camp men” from “I personally don’t dress like Boy George”, but in a free world I get to choose which clothes shop or boutique I go to. By comparison to Boy George my wardrobe is drab and unadventurous, but that’s just what I’m comfortable wearing.
I don’t dress in bovver boots, army combats or union jack t-shirts either, and I hate the taste of lager. Does that mean I hate all straights?
I totally agree. There is a massive difference between disliking someone. I mean it wouldn’t suit for us all to be the same, that actually would be boring but to say you hate someone, hate being a strong word used too freely without thought usually ends up meaning disrespecting and discriminating.
Is is illegal to dislike feminine mannerisms? James, some gay men are just not camp or fem, why is that such a hard concept for you to understand, why does that make them homophobic? Are you saying gay men HAVE to be feminine? that the so called ‘straight acting’ gay men are hiding something?
Are comments like this ok then?
No, im not camp i find them beyond tollerable or I have always found overly camp mincing gay men excruciatingly embarassing and what the “straight” world think of as gay when i reveal that i am gay.
In other words i am a normal man who happens to love men.
@ James! The remarks might be rather prejudiced and expressed unnecessarily strongly, but they’re just assertions of personal preference – isn’t that permissible? It’d be completely different if they were advocating that camp people be banished or expelled from society or something.
rolex its not illgeal to dislike to hate female mannerism but why would you?
Personal preference is ok but if it makes someone else feel threatened or vulnerable then it has moved beyond personal preference to discrimination
Yes, but the intention to threaten needs to be there, doesn’t it? I mean, if someone said “Oh, I can’t stand gay/medium-height/brown-eyed/grey-haired/talkative men” [all of which categories apply in my case] I’d just think they were a bit ridiculous and turn away. It’s their prerogative to like or dislike whoever they want, provided they don’t consider that an excuse to deny me my human rights.
Some people dont like coffee but to say that is hate is just looking for something to bitch about.
I too find painted nellie limp wristed simpering queens deeply embarassing but that doesn’t mean i hate them.
Hate is only a word the religious freaks use and some fascist racists or people whose lack of intellect fails them when trying to find things to blame people for.
I think its how the person on the receiving ends interprets the intention.
I doubt the nellie queens would find you much of a catch either lard ass
@ James! I think its how the person on the receiving ends interprets the intention
That’s a really difficult one, and I think it depends if a there is a specific receiving end. I might think the less of someone who said “I can’t stand Asians/gays”, but it would be a mistake if I interpreted that personally if I overheard it. It would be different if they were, say, blocking my way into a pub as they said it.
@ James! ….
….now you are just being abusive for the sake of it. Abuse is the last refuge of the ignorant. How is 5ft 11″ and 13 st a lard ass. And your being ridicolous as you don’t know me,
@paddy “abuse is the last refuge of the ignorant” your quote for your life.
Why would i hate femininity? Well in women its fine, but im not really interested in women. I dont like overt femininity in men, i find it unattractive and im sorry, but annoying. The type of femininity in men i like is the caring, shy, sensitive side that we can all have in balance. The femininity i DONT like is the camp mincing, the bitchiness and the acidic queeniness. I dont like being called ‘she’ or ‘her’, people that do that just look like fools. Thats type of gay man has always been the joke, the fool, the jester in society yet now it seems if your arent that youre internally homophobic? What a load of crap.
I would defend any homosexual to my dying breath if they are being attacked for it,but i doesn’t mean i have to like how they behave.
@ James ……
….it always seems to come down to whether or not someone is a possible conquest or shag with you., which is a very cynical and sad way to go through life.
….”your quote for your life.” really??
You’re too much!
we’re just as bad as the homophobes if we’re trying to impose our personal dress code on each other
Amen to that!
I dont think that by passing comment on certain methods or ways of dressing or indeed behaving can possibly be termed as homophobic or attempting to impose anything on anyone.
Would you say that people who comment on the dress sense or lack of on red carpets here and there are being homophobic. Clearly a ridicolous notion.
That’s a bit of a cliche shay comment…not what it used to be…I’m sure the 70s and 60s stars would think the 80s a bit dull…I was part of the late 80s and most people wanted to be accountants and computer programmers and wanted to own their own house…cant believe people are still as boring as all that still??
Wanting to be a celebrity face filling the pages of faceless blogs is possibly one of the most boring things to do on the planet….
There is no getting away from the fact that ‘gay culture’ is certainly more homogenous and much less edgy than it used to be. Whether this is because of the level of acceptance we now experience, or whether the opposite is the case, and we experience this level of acceptance because out culture is now less ‘in your face’ i don’t know. It does worry me sometimes though that we have become absorbed by the mediocrity that is the everyday, and that we are often the first to attack the extremities of our community.
Agreed, i find most london gay men very fearful of being associated with being unique or different , maybe it is the fear of esculating homophobia or maybe just a reflection of society in general, or as music/style/art has become so mediocre and bland, people no longer have the inspiration. London has become so dull in particular , everyone looks so uniform in how they dress . A sea of grey. Its rare to even see someone wear bright colours now. My mum is of george’s generation and the style/music of that time was so superior to now. london, once the crucible of creativity, now dead on its arse. such a shame what happened to such a great city.
Dressing like it’s still the 80′s doesn’t show much originality, it just shows that George O’Dowd and Philip Sallon have gotten stuck in an 80′s rut. Yes, it was their heyday and all but it’s not new or interesting looking, it’s actually really naff. And featuring Elizabeth Taylor’s “Cleopatra” make-up and Greta Garbo’s hat when you are a middle aged man just looks off-putting George.
Boy George has left a legacy. When you turn to dust how will you be remembered?
How will I be remembered james!?
Not disguised as a twat hidng behind Cleopatra style make-up, frumpy hat and appliqued suit jackets ad nauseum…though seriously I won’t care how I’m remembered or not remembered when I’m dead.
Why do you ask? does it bother you how you will be remembered?
I like George O’Dowd’s musical back catalogue, he also has a lovely side to his personality (as well as the other side) though I honestly feel his fashion and style sense has become fossilised, he may bounce back yet ,I hope so.
Christ Pavlos you were you the bloke he tied up? such hostility and that coming from me!
I wasn’t being hostile james!…okay you’ve sprung me, I still have the rope burns on my wrists.
….and that is the nub of the mater. Personality. Paint and flamboyant clothing does not give one a personality, just a short term interest a a clown or fool. A lot of gay men seem to think that being pseudo women is personality when i so isn’t.
@pavlo , “rope burns” thought u sounded like a gimpboi.
There are no new or interesting looks and any badly plagerised (retro) attempts at originality are precisely that . At least they had one , even if they are still in an 80s timewarp. It’s not my personal taste, but i appreciate anyone with style.
yeah – shame on them for doing what they want to do eh? lol
(and shame on you for not even realising what you’re saying!)
And shame on you for talking sh*t!
What do you expect when the vile Tories are in power and everyone is either fearful of losing or has lost their jobs, plus the cuts to benefits etc that will make those people who haven’t got jobs lives impossible.
Maggie Thatchers era has returned and for the next four years you can expect nothing better. The insidious creeping homophobia of the Tory blue rinse brigade is still very much running things. Have the police raids on Gay venues started yet?
@ Charles Gormley: maybe it really depends on how you define ‘gay culture’ – or perhaps it’s just that there’s more than one such option these days?
yeah, you are possibly right, though I can’t escape the feeling that we have won the battle for acceptance by emulating the majority. However, I accept that gay culture is not a static entity and has evolved since the 80s. You have a point when you say that there is more than one option, although, it does seem that everyone is choosing the same option, if that is the case. And there was more than one option in the 80s as well.
Incidentally, I don’t think it is just gay culture that has been sanitised and commoditised. Any movement that was in any way counter-cultural is now part of the mainstream. Feminism, environmentalism, the gay rights movement – all in peoples living rooms now rather than marching through the streets and causing the majority to stop and think for a second.
@ XCharles Gormley…..
….Isn’t it a huge mistake to say that mincing flamboyance and silly clothing is Gay culture. Gay culture is still the arts, music, theatre, fashion and the leading force in the world of cutting edge modernism. Lets face it, what gay culture embraces today, straight culture embraces next week.
Actually, Paddyswurds, I think the very idea of ‘gay culture’ is rather dodgy – what does it really mean? Last year, amazingly enough, I fell out with a female friend who unfortunately couldn’t conceive of a gay man who wasn’t interested in Eurovision.
You could say that since the unifying factor is that we [gay men] all – theoretically, of course – like cock, gay porn is the real ‘gay culture’. Now there’s a thought …
….if that’s what you think “gay culture” is you are a really sad embassador for gay men. “porn is the real gay culture”. If that is your life i feel for you. Altho i should have realised that before now, going by the content of some of your comments on the various threads on PN…..You should try and gat out a bit more.
Jaysus, Paddyswurds, I wasn’t being serious!
But since you mention it, I certainly think you could benefit from taking your own advice – specially if you seriously think ‘gay culture’ is the ‘leading force in the world of cutting edge modernism’. How, exactly? A few outstanding designers who’re homosexual do not constitute gay culture; nor does sexuality presuppose a talent (or lack thereof) for design.
I’m surprised that someone who so enthusiastically extols the virtues of blokeish gayness (above) should believe in such corny and patronising stereotypes.
I think it is a huge mistake, and frankly comes close to be apologist, if you ignore the mincing flamboyance and silly clothing. Sure, the arts, theatre etc are part of gay culture, but come on, how many gay theatre companies are there? The whole ‘we do it this week, they do it the week after’ argument just doesn’t cut the mustard anymore. We shop in the same shops, buy the same music, go to the same shows in the theatre, and i think that this is the point that Boy is making- we don’t strive to be different anymore. I am not necessarily saying that we should, however, it is inescapable IMO that we do not.
@ Charles Gormley….
…..rather than we’ve grown less edgy as we’ve become more accepted, it’s the other way around. We’ve become more accepted as we have become more main stream and less “in your face”. Polari is gone and apart from Boy George and Julian Clary, when was the last time you seen a gay man look like a parody of a woman……… Even the marvellous Graham Norton a fellow irish man, has never felt the need to “paint up” , while still being deliciously camp and “mainstream”
HOw depressing is that? That we have become accepted because WE have changed. How very depressing.
well said charles, it’s great to see some gay guys still have backbone. Only appeasers like paddy the clown want to be mainstream cause hes so uncomfortable in his own skin.
Whose conforming? Is it not possible to just be average and gay? Maybe paddy doesn’t need to stand up for his right to be effeminate and flamboyant because.. he isnt and doesnt WANT to be.
…..Exactly how i would have put it.
While straight friends have said you would know i was gay, i am NOT effeminate. i can be slightly camp when i want to be but even “straights” can be camp.
@ Charles Gormley: alternatively, you could say that the need to signal belonging within an often-despised or pitied minority by dressing and speaking in a certain way has lessened, or at least that the goalposts have shifted. Not necessarily a bad thing, specially as there is still room for people like Alan Carr and Julian Clary, if that’s what you want.
It is now with groups like stonewall etc, that they what us to forget about gay culture and conform. Semi detatched,2.4 children, a black labrador and a volvo.
Only if you define ‘gay culture’ as flamboyance, surely? Isn’t expecting everyone who’s gay to be extravagantly dressed or otherwise colourful just another type of imposed conformity?
Different strokes, etc…
The vast majority of gay men back then were, as now, not really flamboyant or extrovert.
That’s why those of us who were tended to create our own clubs and venues.
I actually agree with him completely. I mean, if you just do fit in then that’s cool. But I think there is more of a sense now that anyone that doesn’t is doing it on purpose to get attention. So, despite knowing they want to look/dress differently, they force themselves not to. There is what I call ‘campophobia’ within the gay community. Camp ot flamboyant guys get bullied by so-called ‘straight acting’ gay people and told they do a disservice to gay rights. Why? Because other people are narrow minded? So equality is all fine as long as it looks, talks and behaves like everyone else?
….would every one stop saying “here here” as it means nothing The term is “hear, hear” as in “Hear him, hear him”….. Doesn’t anyone own a dictionary any more……sheesh
…….2here here” means you are calling a dog to heel, moron!
……”here here” means you are calling a dog to heel, moron! Were you sucking d!ck in the john during English class?
Apt that i should say it after your comment then .
A not wholly unexpected moronic response. Typically childish.
Makes me laugh, you of all people branding others childish.
@jock agreed , still find it a shock that pads is 60 and the rest, maybe hes sinile? or just a complete nutter.
Erm, ok then…
Or alternitavley Honest some of us just enjoy football, drink Irish whiskey and just happen to enjoy doing the same things other hetro people do (Im a big Eurovision head though!). Im part of neither community Im just me lads. Gee biscuits :)
Which is fine. It’s not flamboyant or camp or “glamorous” people saying that’s a bad thing. It’s usually the irish whiskey drinking, football loving, “straight acting” gay people who think camp people deserve to be treated the way they are because they “bring it upon themselves.” Nobody brings bullying upon themselves, it is purely the bully’s attitude and ignorance and nothing else.
I will just point out I’m not suggesting you Chutneybear treat people like that, I was just using your hobbies as an example :)
must disagree met plenty of trannys who drink whisky like water and play footie with their kids . oh but then again they are hetrosexual. Does chutney do the same as other hetro people or is he selective?
…you seem determinededly fixated on “trannies” when what most people are talking about is merely flamboyantly dressed effeminate mincing queens and such like one sees at a typical “pride” and or staggering drunk around Canal St and Soho at the weekends. Hardly representative of gay men but very much the visible face of Gay Culture, and tbh not the way most modern gay men want to identify as. Someone said earlier we are, the vast majority of us, ordinary dudes, who like a drink in the pub with straight mates, footie fans (altho i don’t know why on that one), Rugby Union fans, secretly admiring those hunky thighs, ,,,we are adept at fixing the car, the plumbing, understand the inner workings of a computer and on and on…in other words ordinary guys who happen to prefer cock to fanny.
They’re are plenty of football loving, straight acting gay people who do way to much Irish whiskey drinking, then let there heair down and get all camp and flamboyant but likewise whats wrong with that?!
nothing, except “straight acting gay people” is an oxymoron.
“Straight acting” has faint echos i really don’t like. Straight appearing is, while it isn’t quite as “slip off the tounge” easy to say, more accurate. “Straight acting” smells faintly of the Choice argument. I am who I am, and theres nothing acting about it. To act one has to make a concious decision to be this way or that and that certainly is not how i live my life. My personality is my own and is also not a thing i decided was going to be this or that it just is and i’m happy with it as are most of those i meet.
Chutney i have no beef with that unless you want everone to be like you
I don’t understand aren’t all the camp ones from the 80s still alive…they’re still only in their late 40s , early 50s and they’re still wearing the same old clothes and are as camp as ever???…perhaps the young ones are rebelling against this old image, nothing like an old stager dressed up in flamboyant clothes to put you off all that for good…
Nothing like a delusional gay guy who thinks hes “straight acting” and “butch” but spell it with an i, to put me off. I’ve been with those type of guys ,all legs up marys once off the street, they look like tarzan but sound like jane , even when they do try to sound more manly lol. They may not have the style of the older brigade but they are just as effeminate but in a thinly disgused way , as if they are embarrassed by their own existance kinda thing . At least the olde queens were fearless and assertive to march to the beat of their own drum, in a way having the quality of manly assertion lacking in the straight acting creeps.
Brilliant post Rapture. We did our own thing . No straight acting, boring, , joyless spineless conformity.
I can be found dancing to Kylie and love Eurovision as much as I can be found enjoying what people percieve as straight activities. The olde queens and butch acting bears are hilarious. Both claim to reperesent both spectrums of the gay world and yet there is people like me and others who quite happily do our own thing and get on with life!
Very true Rapture. Good comment.
….and going home to empty beds because most gay men fancy and like having sex with men, not something that looks like a parody of their sister or mother!!!.
@paddy , the tranny scene is noted for being highly sexualised . As for changing your nature to get laid or how one dresses,that would be pathetic, sex is easy to get anyhow, maybe not for you though.
…..Can’t read either i see….who is paddy cause I see no one on this thread with that tag?
I wasn’t talking about the “tranny” scene!
since when did drinking Irish Whiskey become a badge of ‘normal’ honour?
Personally I cant stand football – and there’s nothing wrong with that.
People are all different – one of the things I cant stand about sports and sports like football in particular is the way that theres a perception that everyone SHOULD like it – that we’re all the same and that if we DONT like it then theres something ‘wrong’ (read ‘gay’) with us.
There was that pressure on most of us when we were growing up and I dont intende to bow to that pressure now just because it comes from gay men either.
There is no honour in fitting in to appease others – nor in standing out to appease others.
Just be yourself and allow others to be themselves as long as theyre not trying to make others conform to themselves too.
“Never follow rules unless theyre the ones you usually break (and even then not unless you feel you want to!)”
…. give me a hunky irish Rugby player every time, not an overpaid simpering mammys boy football player who feels the need to do a silly dance and get kissed and fondled by his team mates when he scores a goal
Well said staircase – i’ve often thought my version of ‘edited highlights’ on Grandstand would be the bit where they take each others shirts off, the bit where they hug on the pitch and kiss and a camera in the communal jacussi afterwards.
Oh and there was a goal or two somewhere back there but who cares about the score, it’ll only be different next week!
But I guess there’s folks that see more in football than soft porn and they’re welcome to it.
I think I’ve got that film…
Let’s face it, the likes of George O’Dowd, Peter Robinson and Philip Sallon had to dress flamboyantly and act the goat in order to compensate for their gaping lack of talent.
ooooohhh… Saucer of milk, Joe?
Table for one Joe?
Actually I’m inclined to agree. Boy Geroge was talented though. The other two..not so much.
Meeeoowww!… love it!
…… and personality or sex appeal…. Does Lizzie Windsor have the same hat maker as George O’Dowd i wonder. They are always the same shape just different colors. Boring!!!
I don’t know if I agree, USA wise. In my high school, you can see and feel the gay culture – one of my peers stood up at the council and talked about why we need workplace equality and we got it in a conservative state. Dyed styled hair and all. Another dresses metro. A third has the gay vibe, though he is passionate about sailing. I think it boils down to us embracing individualism which encompasses the different facets of gay culture, rather than being one boring blob. Though I admit, it took three years for the girls in my class to realize I meant it when I went “I’m gay!” and have a girlfriend who puts their wishy-washy relationships to shame.
I think the USA is in a very different place (well, obviously, but I mean in terms of gay rights!) than the UK. Not living there it’s hard to comment with any real knowledge, but I get the vibe gay rights is still a massive issue? Because of that there’s more passion and dare I say it more of a “need” to be non conformist. The need to make a stand.
Things in the UK have become a bit deflated and complacent because a law has been thrown out that says “you can have a sort-of semi marriage that’s nearly like us” and a blood ban gets sort of semi lifted but not really. Oh and you sort of semi can’t fire someone for being gay but you can pick just about any other reason as long as it has a sentence in the companies handbook.
Apparently this is all good enough for us gays, and we all bow down accordingly to the might heterosexuals for giving us some leniency. I’m sure things will pick up again though once people realise the inequality of the whole situation, I sure hope they do!
err, typos: mighty* and company’s*
….the problem in the US is that it is still in thrall to the Abrahamic fiction myth. It’s even still on their money ffs. In God We Trust but “god ” seems to have abandoned their money making efforts of late. Trillions in debt, mostly to the Chinese, and WE think we have it bad.
All ‘cultures’ as you insist on calling them have the flamboyant & extrovert types & not every outragous character is Gay – and How exactly is a group of people connected only by their sexual desire for the same sex ever be considered a Culture – People who crave attention and demand to be recognised for their ‘flamboyance’ do not in any way represent Gay men as a whole – One thing Gaymen have evolved to be is individual.
Gay culture doesn’t spring from a shared sexual desire but because of it.
People bandied together because of the need to socialise with other people the same as themselves – whenever any group of people form they inevitably CREATE a culture which is shared.
If it wasnt about sexual desires it could be about stamp collecting or train spotting.
Culture is what we DO and how we do it – not about who we are.
There is an element of hetro compliance which has taken over some elements of gay life. Marriage and kids are supposed to be the ideal nowadays and anyone who strays outside those parameters are letting the side down apparantly
Its NOT hetero compliance!! Many gay people always WANTED such a life, but they weren’t allowed. Trust me, to many homophobes the idea of gay people being average, home making child raising people is the ultimate horror, so its hardly being compliant to want it.
If you dont want that, if you want the flamboyant life go for it, im not stopping you, but how dare you say im denying something for wanting it. (PS. I DONT want children, but many do).
Trust me, to many homophobes the idea of gay people being average, home making child raising people is the ultimate horror, so its hardly being compliant to want it.
Ok for you but I’m not living my life to win over anti gay people
And neither should you, but equally you shouldn’t attack those that are fitting in, just because they happen to. The problem with people like BG is they spend their entire lives in and around the gay areas of cities. These areas attract a certain type of gay man, lets just say, not the average guy. These days any one can feel safe for the most part in these areas, so average guys do visit them on occasion (it has to be said.. for a laugh). BG then sees them and thinks the locals are compliant hetero normals (as he sees them). No, its just the rest of us, the 90% that arent flamboyant.
It’s called ‘individual’ for a reason.
I disagree, I think most Gay men just get on with it. It’s not about fitting in it’s about being part of the bigger community which we contribute to.
Having said that we still have clubs and pubs for different tastes.
I guess the real diffence is most people change with age and fashions, best or worst unlike Boy George who has pretty much stuck to his 80′s style, throughout.
With most of us we can enjoy each others different outfits but I guess with his once you’ve seen one you’ve kinda seen them all.
I have been reading your comments recently on a few things and you have your finger on the pulse!
Why Thank you kind sir!!
Yes, for such a long time if not in Leigh Bowery clone drag it’s almost always the same frumpy style hat, Cleopatra eye make-up and applique’d suit jackets…how different! how glamorous!
I think it’s a relief that “gay culture” has moved on. First we had the larry graysons etc, then I don’t know ,we had the boy georges but now we have much more depth, there’s still a place for the Boy Georges etc but now we can portray ourselves as boring people as well. I don’t think I want to go back to the 80s ,some of that stuff back then was pretty naff and as for role models then they were fairly non existent. We couldn’t be seen are “married” couples with kids back in the 80s , at least now the word “gay” hopefully doesn’t mean a particular image of a person…there’s still some pretty showy people around , they just don’t have to be gay…
Youre a bit of a rude wanker arent you, Pavlos
If you say so Staircase2, I tried being a polite wanker but I just couldn’t pull it off, at least we have that in common.
@ Pavlos….. lol
….nice pun, intended or not…..
Face it George, the need to scream your visibility as a gay man is not so great now that gay-identified people have fought and won most of their rights to be recognised as equal citizens.
What is “gay” after all? A recent term invented to establish a tribe mindset among a minority of people who decided they needed to broadcast who they sleep with in public. And consider that more and more people no longer choose to label themselves “gay” or define who they are by who they sleep with and are far more willing to be, as you call it, assimilated into the mainstream.
Couldn’t it just be that more and more people are choosing to shake themselves free of their gay suit of armour that has so long been used as a barrier to separating them and us while being used as a stick to demand special treatment? We are all sexual beings, period, George, nothing more, nothing less. Let’s just drop this “gay”/”straight” charade/nonsense once and for all and life would just be a whole lot less complicate
The point is Rob I have no problem with non gay people. But more oftenthan not I am reminded that I am gay and unwelcome.
I reckon you should stop posting on grown up sites until your balls drop.
I agree, but you have a problem with non fem loving gay people. Why is it hard to understand not everyone wants to be camp or like camp? Its a personality trait i dont like in my friends. Its my choice. Gay doesn’t NOT mean fem, we are not conforming to the hetero world. YOU are the one with the bias and the problem, you are attacking US. I dont care if you are fem, camp or whatever and i certainly wouldnt attack you for it, but that doesnt mean i have to befriend you. Its not internalise homophobia because camp, fem doesnt have anything to do with sexuality. If you think it does that says more about you that it does me.
….again an excellent post and one i agree with wholeheartedly and have been trying to put across but failing miserably it would seem.
America gave us Adam Lambert. That is a non conforming international pop star role model. Only one who is happy with himself can accept variety of his own kind. Most of gay people are not so they hide in uniformed every day self hatred. Wearing my kilt I get “those looks” walking down Old Compton street. First open gay prison indeed. Just be yourself people and camp it up if you feel like and let the rainbow get it’s colors back. Don’t forget sparkles and bling. Check the meaning of “gay” in dictionary and act accordingly.
Agreed. Guys in kilts are hottt!
Hmmm!… hot guys in kilts are hot but what about Prince Charles?
I agree, my fellas always looked good with his kilt on, though it’s not usually on for long. But yes also draw the line at Prince Charles.
But i dont WANT to dress like that or act like that, why cant you see that if i did do it I would be conforming to what YOU wanted.Im not saying there arent gay men who are frightened to be themselves, but many of us are being ourselves and not being flamboyant. Call me dull, boring and average if you want, but dont call me conformist.
Quite right Rovex.
Boy George says ” Most gay men go out of their way to look normal and fit in.”
He could just as easily have left the word ‘gay’ out of that statement.
I think the meaning behind his comment is that unless a gay man looks normal and fits in then he is going to be a target of homophobic straight people who believe that he is ‘flaunting’ his sexuality;and that also he is going to be a target of homophobuc gay people who believe that he is ‘flaunting’ his sexuality;
I understood from his comments that he believes that individulaity and independence and individual personal style is no longer welcome in the brave, new gay world.
Oh, OK – that’s not quite how I read it, David. It’s a shame if individuality isn’t appreciated, and of course it’s deplorable if it is somehow used to justify violence. However, being gay and having an individual personal style aren’t necessarily related attributes.
Gay men have worn culturally provocative clothes which have drawn attention to their difference and politicised dress in daring to be different. I agree that there is far more equality and homogeneity of different cultures and sexualities now and that there have always been gay men and women who have passed under the radar, either through who they are or desire for conformity. We must not forget however the basic tenet of gay rights however, and that is the tolerance of difference, and this lack of tolerance contributed to Philip’s attack. We must embrace ourselves in all ways we chose to represent ourselves. I may be happy in my high street clothes, but I owe a debt of gratitude for the queens before me who dared to be different and helped with society’s greater awareness. They maybe only a fraction of all gay men and women but they have played an important part. Relegating them to history menas that we become the oppressor.
I believe that I stand out from the average person and am quite original in the way I think and the way I appear (or I would like to think so anyway) but people are still in-general, shocked when I come out. Why do you have to appear gay to stand out
To be able to dress however you please is important. The fact you might attract attention or appear ‘effeminate’ doesn’t give someone the right to attack you. I think gay culture has changed. There was a time when being single and gay was thought of as an advantage in that you weren’t expected to get married with all that entails. Now young gays want to get married in church the same as heterosexuals. Its obvious that we all want to be the same. Being different has become old fashioned or too scary.
There are outrageous and flamboyant straight men too. I actually think Boy George is talking more about youth culture than gay culture, and I totally agree with him that it is more homogenised and less individualistic than it used to be.
Youth culture movements once used to come from the youth themselves and from the streets. Sadly that is no longer the case- they are now decided on by middle-aged business executives like Simon Cowell and Phillip Green.
Actually that is Very fair point about straight men that are considered outrageous and flamboyant. Plus a number of those straight end up getting homophobic abuse themselves.
Excellent point though.
Oh, I don’t know, Dromio – I can’t see that Simon Cowell, of all people, has been instrumental in the trend for youngm men wearing jeans almost below their bums (a most unattractive trend if you ask me)! Nor Phillip Green.
lol bless you – youth culture has never come from Simon Cowell!
Rapture & James (!) – don’t you see your own prejudices – those which you are so vocal about in others – are running riot here?
Naturally effeminate gay men (as opposed to insecure, bitchy men – and before you go off on one, I don’t mean you) are praised and accepted – quite rightly too. But naturally masculine gay men are derided as ‘delusional’ and ‘straight acting’. There are, believe it or not, gay men out there who do have a genuine interest in trad male pursuits and are generally the quiter end of the gay spectrum, and may well be a bit gruff and straight down the line, if you’ll pardon the expression. Gay men are as diverse as straight men – why is this taking so bloody long to skin in?
you need to refer to my posts again, a referral to oppressed and oppressive gay men . I have no issue with guys being themselves , whatever mannerisms they innately display .
…yet you seem to be determined to say that if one isn’t a nellie queen in paint and womens clothing, one is desperately trying to fit into the “straight” world or is homophobic. Reading through your rambling offerrings on this thread you don’t seem to know who or what you are. Sad and pathetic is my take on you, poor dear.
good, i’d hate to have appoval from you. Ana you are back to lies again as in previous threads.
…….how very origional i think i may have read that line on someones else’s thread…oh that s right it was me. Lies? only in your world…pet.
He’s the spitting image of Geneviève de Fontenay….founder of miss France
Perhaps George’s point is really in relation to the beating Philip Sallon received- that we’re less inclined now to behave or act flamboyantly than ‘we’ were in the 80s for fear of reprisal from c–ts like those that beat Sallon up last weekend.
…i’m just a dewd
in your mind only.
…and what you are is clear to everyone……sadly.
yes and thats how i want it ,i’m always proud to be myself whether it gets approval or not , i bow to no one so all my relationships with people are genuine , you should try it before its too late and stop being so passive to fit in.
A dude is just a dud with an E.
(You could of course see that as a recommendation for a certain class A drug – and why not?)
I don’t think Boy George was specifically saying everyone should dress up – quite the opposite! I would argue that his point had as echo of another activist. The late Eric Rofes said that “there is room for monogamous couples and sex pigs in the same big tent of community”. Sadly, ‘deviance’ and difference is being policed ever more and diversity is suffering. Oh and I’ve never cared to be ‘average’…
Actually its the other way round. ‘Deviance’ as you put it is simple not the gay exclusive any more. Our flamboyance is being diluted by the fact that straight men and women now feel free to dress that way to. The division is gone, and thats a good thing.
It is sad that we can’t be different. Why does the gay community want to be normal??
What is happening now is the gay community emulating heterosexuality.
Which is the worst travesty of any society that regards as being different.
I love being different, but I have never been into makeup or drag, which I deplore.
The assimilation of the gay community with mainstream is so wrong. i know it does protect you from bashings, homophobia etc. But it is a big price to pay to having to live a lie.
Shame on the gay community for not having convictions and stand up for them.
Assimilating the worst of heterosexuality. Pink collar boxing FFs. I also agree about drag it’s misogynistic.
boxing isn’t the worse as boxing is cool so quit attacking it, self-defence is very useful
It’s such a vicious sport give me fencing any day
You can come an put mine up if you want James!
@Chester………in what or on what level is pugilism “cool” ffs? Two human beings hammering each other into the ground until one “wins”. We have banned dog fighting, bull fighting, cock fighting, badger baiting, etc, yet we still allow this barbaric activity. It makes a mockery of everything post modern man purports to be and it is time it was ended. “pink collar boxing” ffs… puhleese….!!.
errata….. in what way or on…
@radical53: why should you deplore makeup or drag, if you celebrate people being different? And in what way is it ‘living a lie’ if some people want to assimilate with the mainstream?
If people want to be boring fine as long as they are not ashamed of being gay. Do you think drag is misogynistic?
Do you think drag is misogynistic? I have indeed found it uncomfortably so sometimes. And stage shows with drag bore me rather.
fine as long as they are not ashamed of being gay I think too often it’s assumed that there’s shame involved if people want to assimilate – I don’t think that’s necessarily so.
I dislike people who deny there is a gay culture. If you don’t want to be part of it fine but there is one.
….there is Gay Culture yes, but don’t make the mistake of assuming that it’s the painted up dragged up queens staggering around some of the more downmarket gay clubs in the inner cities at the weekend. They are for the most part the misogynist sad basement of Gay culture who tend to turn events like Pride into a travesty nowadays and are i’m glad to say a breed that is rapidly in decline.
I really wish people would stop referring to THE gay community? Which gay community? Is everyone from Gareth Thomas to Peter Mandelson to Tom ford to Alan Carr supposed to think and behave in the same way?
I thought we fought in the past for the right for people to be what they are, without apology – surely that includes the right to be unspectacular and “normal” (however you want to define it) as well?
Maybe there is no gay community but there is gay culture. Some of you guys are ashamed of it and try to deny its existence but it’s here
and remember we may not be posting on these boards if the LGBT people who were here before us didnt fight for what we take for granted
Can you give me a few examples of what you think comprises gay culture today? (That’s not meant to be an aggressive challenge, I really don’t know what falls into that category any more.)
Gay parties, bars, clubs and saunas mostly underground stuff are all the culture I need. Not everyones ideal but it’s what I like.
Oh, OK – but I don’t think anyone’s denying that exists, are they? I think when people query whether there’s such a thing as gay culture, it’s whether Eurovision for example falls into that category (and I for one don’t think so).
So James, to you gay culture is the underground stuff that quite frankly doesnt need to be underground any more. Living in the past you are. If that is ‘gay’ culture then maybe im just homosexual and not gay, because I hate that stuff, it bores me. ‘Gay’ obviously means something else now.
Culture, in the UK at any rate, has been greatly influenced by gay culture, the old ways we had as gay people in the 70s and 80s are no longer needed for the most part. It sounds to me like you have a major chip on your shoulder and want a return to the sexuality apartheid of the 80s
@James!………ashamed of it is probably a bit strong, but certainly bored with it, as it is all so predictible and yesterday. Gay men nowadays, while being spectacularly different and faboulously talented don’t feel the need to paint up and drag up to be so. We are all individuals and to be lumped in with what some people see as the “gay community” is not what we want for our lives. Even tho we are gay men we still want marriage, families, sucessfull careers, nice homes and happy lives and if that is seen as assimilating into “straight ” community so what if we are happy. Those who railing against that while staggering around in paint and womens clothing, drugged and boozed up to the eyeballs and frequenting the cottages and baths of inner cities are deffo not happy and will end their days alone and desperately bitter with no one to blame but themselves.
Maybe we dont identify with it. It doesnt appeal to me. I dont like pop music, i dont much care for drag, i dont have a diva icon. none of it interests me. Naked men interest me. It doesn’t make me any less homosexual than you or anyone else.
And thats is what is important.
@ rovex ….
…..absolutely agree.. thats what defines me as a gay man . The rest of the so called gay culture is just a load of tosh.
I have always found overly camp mincing gay men excruciatingly embarassing and what the “straight” world think of as gay when i reveal that i am gay.
In other words i am a normal man who happens to love men.
Agreed, there unfortunately, still is a lot of internalised self loathing homophobia in the lgbt community . Wheres the progress?
More misguided pop psychology from tired old queens *yawn* are either of you dullards actually qualified psychologists to be making such a stupid claim? Who were your sample participants? What controls did you have in place? Your I.V? Your D.V? Unless you have thr proflof to back up such BS then I wouldnt bother some people are out to friends and family, are married to their partners and still dont like camp people. The sad part of it all is that you are so blind to the fact that gay people are not special in the slightest. Nothing, NOTHING makes a person gay apart from liking men or women exclusively. But down your tired 80s checklist for the obvious sterotype.
Discrimination and prejudice against anyone in unacceptable. Marriage or comming out does not change any internal baggage you carry around with you. I knew a guy who came out then lost the plot maybe it wasn’t what he expected. You think its ok to hate camp people I think you should be ashamed you idiot
Yes, because people are entitled to think what they like, and no ammount of you projecting your own insecurities around the place will fix that.
Why is it not ok for people to dislike who they like? As long as they dont act upon it, or actively harm anybody, then whats the freaking issue? Are you in favor of thought controll? Make sure those nasty deviants in the gay “community” need to be weeded out huh? Cant just dissagree? Have to put a load of reasons those “deviants” are inferior and tell them they are mentally holding problems, just because they dont like something? They cant just dislike something? Suppose you drama queens are everywhere.
Care to reveal the findings of you psychology experiment that allows you to say that its internalised homophobia now?
Bollocks I have nothing to prove to you. You dont llike my opinion fine I imagine you feel the same way abouts black and jewsish people
I’m that the burden of proof does actually lie with you now James, you are the ones who stated that this was internailised homophobia. Now back it up or STFU.
And I’m glad to see that your argument has resorted to trying to place a label of Anti-Semitic and racist on me also, truly your are grasping at straws here.
You have an endorsement from Paddy. Read the rest of his comments and let me know if that endorsement is a positive thing
Straw-man much? What does your opinion of other another posters comments have to do with anything? Are you trying to devalue my posts based on whether or not I agree with somebody else? You even said yourself in your posts above you like saunas so what’s the issue?
Why even bother replying, nothing but hearsay and strawmen.
Oh just fcuk off then and stop replying
“What does your opinion of other another posters comments have to do with anything?”
Erm… HELLO!! Comment page here. I’m don’t know if your familiar with the concept of a comment page but traditionally we… oh whats the point!
……finally met your match there jimmy boy. i am liking Popspychologist more and more with every post and he is certainly putting you and your cohorts firmly where you belong…Boom,Boom as you young people say nowadays…lol
“finally met your match there jimmy boy.”
Erm, what are you 12?
Paddy I could think of anything worse than having you agreeing with me and the Pop idiot must be the anti gay big guns sent in to try to silence me.
The bitches can keep trying probally the same ones who keep using my name too. I wish PN would sort out a proper login for each commentator
the hypocrisy of your name and comment say it all. Its your problem if you lack empathy with others. If you don’t like camp people, thats your prerogative maybe you are camp like a lot of gay men who claim to hate camp but yet eshew it from every fibre of their being. I don’t have much faith in british psychologists(where 1 in 5 believe in in gay cure therapy) , i would rather trust an exact science., not some freudian based theoritical drivel. I’ve obviously said something thats really being taken as a personal offence by you, but can’t see how , anyhow its your problem.
No, im not camp i find them beyond tollerable, but i guess that means i hate myself right!
People throw around that internalised homophobia crap and thats what annoys me, i am not saying camp people should change, i am npt saying they are wrong, i am not saying that they need therapy or to man up, I am saying people dont like camp people. And if you need to turn that into something personal then so be it, but dont accuse other of mental issuse just because they dont like something.
“the hypocrisy of your name and comment say it all.”
“i would rather trust an exact science., not some freudian based theoritical drivel.”
Considering that your thoughts on internalised homophobia ARE Freudian, I don’t think I’m the one being hypocritical.
These people are still living in their 1960s bed sits in Shepherds Bush or some other such inner city slum and haven’t moved on one iota since thay came screaming out of the closet 40 years ago dressed in their sisters or moms castoff clothing and who frequent, as i said before, cottages or “gay saunas” desperately searching for their lost youth.
“im not camp i find them beyond tollerable, but i guess that means i hate myself right!”
No, just a bigot. The fact the bother you is most enlightened.
At pops…. if the shoe fits…. otherwise why are you so defensive? I don’t care bout your mannerisms but you do protest too much . I’m sure a lot of peeps try to tolerate your insecurities about your masculinity, like i’m trying.
@pops. anything suggested as freudian by you is just coincidental to my view . Freud is unnecessary to elucidate what is basic perception , maybe not for you though.
@paddy , i’m 26, much, much younger than u but much wiser(so it obviously does not develop with age with u as an example), and if you think shepards bush is an inner city slum, then you are very sheltered and prejudiced/bigoted to people from certain areas. You also seem to have an unhealthy obsession with your mums or sisters clothing as you keep mentioning.
Considering you were on of the two who accused people of internalised homophobia, you really need to look at who has the projection issues, I don’t like camp people, however I don’t go around accusing them of having issues.
….that is their way of dealing with what they recognise as themselves when they read some of these posts. This “rapture” person seems to be particularly bitter about his life which was probably spent cruising cottages and gay baths in a vain attempt to escape his own self loathing.
Ah, so the people with self loathing accuse others of self loathing? How very Freudian of them huh? But I’m sure that’s just me hating myself.
Thankfully there are more ‘contributers’ such as rapture and James! etc who leave very valuable comments worthy of good debate, many names actually that spring to mind. They add interests, they add to these threads like most others. Just occasionally though we have someone who just doesn’t get the idea and rather than debate becomes strangely obsessed with those commenting instead.
Far from contributing it actually shows they have nothing to add and rather than leave it there smears them instead.
@Jock s trap…..
….how very enlightened and insightful……just what we have come to expect from you.
Well thats alright then, innit!
@jock, That was a very accurate post. Anyhow i must get back to my cauldron lol
lol… yeah but the problem with cauldrons is the damn things don’t fit into the dishwasher.
Popspychologist: “Nothing, NOTHING makes a person gay apart from liking men or women exclusively.”
I dispute that.
Maybe it comes with the territory, but until I discovered my sexuality in my 30′s, I wouldn’t recognise most gay men from a hole in the ground. It was just the really obvious camp ones everybody knew like Larry Grayson and John Inman.
Once the transition happened, my gaydar kicked in. I have no idea how, but I just *knew* when somebody was gay, and it has never yet failed me. My theory has been something like “blue jeans 1pt, red jeans 5pts, white jeans 10pts” etc. Different coloured jeans doesn’t make one gay, but when you start to add posture, walk, fashion sense, hairstyle, etc etc all these little points add up in one direction until you hit a level where you know they cannot be anything else.
The strange thing is, one can see someone that is no way stereotypical, yet the alarm bells still ring. I’ve always said, being gay is between the ears, not the legs.
tbh gay is just liking men if you are male so that is correct
@paddy, james s*its all over pops.. He may be enlightening to a fool like you ,but hes displayed complete lack of empathy as far as human behaviour is concerned, maybe thats why he has to learn psychology because he does not have the capacity of insight and innate observational skills. You are a f**ckin bumbaclot! weak as piss compared to james! you are the parody of a nagging old hag.
It’s a bit sad to use someone else to fight their battles.
I’m seeing quite a bit of rather nasty internalised homophobia in phrases like “sad bitter old queen”, “you old Mary” and “legs-up Marys” being used by gay men to gay men (who don’t know each other).
Oi, what’s with the punctuation today? Question-marks are appearing in the oddest places!
you seem selective in choosing from one post? griping perhaps?
Once could have been my own error, twice less probably so, wouldn’t you say?
@ rapture: oh – just got what you mean! The examples are from this thread for ease of reference.
Oh cobblers. Gay men have slagged each other since time immemorial.
It’s certainly not a new event.
I didn’t say there was anything new about it.
Clearly someone who have never worked in an office with Straight men to know that Straight men together can be just if not even more bitch than their Gay counterparts.
I <3 Boy George
@Paddyswurds re ”These people are still living in their 1960s bed sits in Shepherds Bush or some other such inner city slum”…… I seem to recognise you having this rant at me some time ago, you suggested that I was living in a bedsit in some sh1tty area of London as you put it. What’s with the bedsit analogy? Still trying to get on the property ladder? You sound like a right evil bitter queen.
Agreed, well said , u got him well figured.
Bitch get served How’s it feel paddy
@ CMYB …..
….find and point out where i said that before and i will accept and apologise for being repetitive. As for getting on the property ladder , I live in a 460 year old country house in ireland with rolling green fields and lakes every where i care to turn my gaze, and am awakened in the morning by a chorus of bird song. So you perception strenghts are also sadly lacking. If 60 is old then ok, but bitter, evil, or queen , wrong again.
Oh and just so you know, i bought my country house for less than 10 grand well before property prices went through the roof. Now who has figured who …… Bitch served?? right back at ya Jimmy…how does that feel dearie..
@Paddyswurds: maybe a little graciousness to go with your rolling acres wouldn’t go amiss? I don’t think anyone here can see the relevance of bedsits in Shepherd’s Bush (or indeed anywhere else), or those who might have to live in such, to this discussion.
“but bitter, evil, or queen, wrong again” yea he forgot to add delusional.
……you wish . But for the obvious security implications i could show you my “delusion” which by the way is marked on maps of Ulster.
……. grace tends to go out the Georgian window when I’m replying to these morons and i agree the relevance of Shepherds Bush is probably a little obscure but rapture and james at al remind me greatly of some of the sad cases i came across in places like the ‘Dilly meat market and the rather down market gay “clubs” i occasionally visited 40 years ago, and they all seemed to live in bedsits in Shepherds Bush and Earls Court.
Yes i do admit to having gone down market in my youth, but one had to experience life in all it’s gory glory. Hoever dd survive it and now can tell the tales……
@ Paddyswurds: Yes i do admit to having gone down market in my youth, but one had to experience life in all it’s gory glory
All the more reason, perhaps, to try and sound less judgmental now, and more accepting of difference? Just a thought …
(PS: I think Shepherd’s Bush has gone up in the world a bit since you last prowled its more shadowy corners!)
….I have no problem with difference but i just am not a fan of the screaming nellie queens in paint and womens clothing that has become the public face of being gay of late. I am a gay man who loves men and that is where it ends, otherwise i’m for the most a man who likes Rugby Union (it’s those hunky leggs, dont u know), hates the noise that passes for music nowadays, loves the classics, my home, my handsome young partner and my mostly “straight” friends.
Unless they razed the Shepherds Bush i knew briefly and rebuilt it somewhere else, it won’t have changed much.
Paddy you are one nasty piece of work. Those sad cases are people who knew what they had to go through just to survive. And then on top of that picking up a piece of crap like you.
oh u think u are big man threatening me? IS this another reference to your support of terrorism , which you’ve made in previous threads supporting the bombing of peoples homes?
@paddy i’ve clearly messed up your head if you resort to violence. Everything i said about your self loathing must be true.
the last 2 posts for paddy
@rapture…….”oh u think u are big man threatening me?” now you add paranoia to your idiocy…where did i threaten you, you moron.
Nowhere on this thread have i threatened anyone and saying so in an attempt to silence me only makes you look like a schoolyard bully. I’m quite surprised you havent accused me of racism or anti semitism as welland how about a little misogyny for good measure. Copy and paste the quote where you were threatened and lets see it. Grow up.!!
“but for obvious security implications i could show you my “delusion” which by the way is marked on maps of ulster” a thinly disguised , subliminal threat from scum like you. the red hand of ulster sometimes changed into a clinched fist by loyalists . surprised even you should make such a reference if you are so proud of being irish.
@pads And you are a mysognist, from reading your ludicrous posts in relation to women and how you consider any facets that would emulate women disturbing. and what you deem a suitable parody. On a previous thread you supported bombing someones home. I got family from Ireland 32 counties and they would find your litany of stupidity pathetic. ” whatever you say , say nothing” and stop putting your foot in mouth.
….will someone please have a look through my posts on this thread and tell me which one it is that “rapture” thinks is a threat of viloence to him from me. I’ve asked him to do it but frankly i’m not hopeful. I suspect that where i said they should raze Shepherds Bush and build it somewhere else has been somehow construed as a threat to him.
The problem seems to be his understanding of the English language.
If this “threat” can’t be found i intend to make an offical complaint about him.
I’m afraid thats how you generally seem to come across, esp when someone disagrees with you. You have branded people much much worse so compaign if you will but maybe you need to see how you come across to others.
Campaign/Complain Whichever way you see it
….now i really do know that you have a problem with the language…
“but bitter, evil, or queen, wrong again” yea he forgot to add delusional”
They above quote by you was a reference to my comments about my home and i took it to mean you thought i was delusional and that i imagined i owned a property. When i said i could show you my delusion i meant my home but for the security implications. When i said it was marked on the map of ulster i meant just that It says “xxxxxx House” at the point where my house stands because it has been here so long. Your paranoia is astounding. I would lay off the weed if i were you. You are bordering on psychotic at this stage.
….oh and by the way the Red Hand of Ulster is not marked on any map of Ulster or indeed Ireland.
i have never commented on women in anyway. i have said however that i think men dressing up in paint and drag is misogynist and a sad parodie of women. Again you twist my words.
I hope that your “family from Ireland 32 counties” (whatever that means) don’t read your pathetic schoolboy bullying posts on this website. They would die of shame.
Take a few monts a attend English language classes and learn some of the nuances of what I presume is your native language. Oh and attend a psychiatrist if you have some spare time. Why by the way at 26, are you not at work….. on the dole perhaps, which wouldn’t surprise me as i can’t imagine anyone would hire you and if they did a half hour would see you out the door again. Like i said earlier, Grow the Fcuk up.!!
….a few months and attend…obv*
@paddy why are u not at work? and why assume i’m not ,and why not ask that to others here. I do not discriminate against people with mental health difficulties and found your post indicative of more of your prejudice . As for my extended irish family , they would find u a complete joke . Unfortunately you wish to portray irish people as being as ignorant and stupid as yourself , which is not the case as you are a minority of one. . You really have a lot of issues , so full of hate spewing out of you . “grow up” you are the 60 something year old acting like a spoilt little princess, big girls blouse. As for me bullying you , what a pathetic allegation, and you think you are manly?????????? what happenened , were the “nellies” too rough with your mangina. you are a vile, disgusting , ugly, and those are words i would use to compliment you .
Isn’t Shepherds Bush where all the old Irish ex-navvies live?
Typical of paddy to turn on his own. treachery personified!
Think he’d turn on himself if he looked in a mirror!
nice one! lol
@ spanner i’m talking 40 years ago…….. and these morons sound just like the trash that lived there then.
……..”Those sad cases are people who knew what they had to go through just to survive” Boo hoo hoo……. like the rest of us had it easy. They just the same opportunities as i di., but obviously chose to spend their lives differently. Thats their problem not mine and now you think i should feel sorry for them??
errata……. ** theyhad just the same opportunities as i did, * obv
Yup all the bile you spilled out in those previous posts was nigh on identical to what you wrote some time ago and directed at me. One trick pony eh Paddy? And I wouldn’t really like to see the trick you’re able to do at this stage in your life. At 60 what are you capable of? Swallowing? Oh and effing and blinding on a message board. Toor-a-loo-a-lay.
….if the shoe fits etc…..pet!!
your life sounds like the one to be pitied by reading your vitriolic, bitter posts? you really are damaged goods.
I just love Boy George. He is so sexy and says what’s on his mind.
I think he is right about people afraid of wearing different clothes. Girls come up to me all the time and say they wish they had the courage and confidence to dress like I do. The men tell me they love it that I dress how I want.
….why say “the men tell me….. ….” Aren’t you a man, in which case you should be saying…”other men tell…..”
Good for you.. I dress how i want as well, its just not flamboyantly. I say what i like as well, its just not that a gay man isnt gay unless he dresses like boy George… See how this works? You dress how you like, emos dress how they like, biker boys dress how they like, you all think ‘the norms’ are conforming. Well not really because you are all conforming in your own little worlds to.
With regard to being beaten up for being flamboyant.. In this particular case i believe he was beaten up for just that alone. However i have seen gay men cry homophobia before when frankly they, for want of a better term, asked for it.
No one should be beaten up, but in the real world if you are a nasty, queeny bitch to someones face you are going to get a slap from somebody, gay or not. Let me put it this way. they didnt beat you for being gay, they beat you because you were obnoxious. They gay slurs that came with it are just because it the easiest insult at the time. I think some of you need to be responsible for your own behaviour a whole lot more than you are.
…….Boom, Boom. (thats me gettin down wiv the yoof, by the way…lol)
…..Boom, Boom …..
(thats me gettin down wiv da yoof, by the way….lol)
The only yoof you’ll go down on is the rentboi who ripped u off.
Is it really necessary to be such a bitch? Proving my point much?
@rovex Is it really necessary for you to be such a fragile princess?
Behaving like that just proves my point Rapture.
sorry rovex , my posts are by no means an attack on you or any other guy who is himself as perceived in a masculine or feminine manner. I am just standing up for guys , who are naturally camp not a phoney put on in G.A.Y ,as that is their nature and they probably get enough strife without peeps giving more. I have read your posts and please read mine again , they are not attacking anybody who has natural mannerisms whether they be masculine /feminine whatever ,just peeps being hypocritical , thats all . Hope that clears things up.
@Paddyswurds ~ ( Not sure how to quote) If I was a man I would have already married Boy George or at least dated him.
I am one of those girls that just adores him. I fell in lust with him when I was 14, which was way after the CC days, but he really inspired me. Most people label me as a goth, although I have a very mixed style, which is why I look good in everything.
As I have aged my tastes in men have changed and I love how he looks now so nice and thick. He can totally be my future baby daddy.
@ Rovex ~ Dragana is a girl’s name, the male version is Dragan. My point was straight people fall into the same catergory. Many people in general are obsessed about what others think and won’t wear or do things because of that. I know a ton like that.
Forget a gay man dressing up like Boy George, I want a straight man to dress up like that and look good. That would be poppin.
Luckily for you they now do. The flamboyant gay is now a redundant term because all men can do it.
A few do check out slimelight if ur into industrial/goth , quite lot of tasty guys some nights.
…..your comments were tagged wrong way around there but i twigged which was for me and which fro Rovex. sorry i didn’t realise you were famale….some of the tag names on here are alittle obscure to say the least. I have no great problems with how George dress’ but i do think it becoming a little samey right about now, and tbh i think he is getting a little long in the tooth for appliqued jackets and those hats, does he and the Windsors have the same milliner. What i find toe curlingly naff is the screamong nellie queens in slap and womens clothing . It is just so 70s and tbh i think it’s past it’s sell by date.
Paddy by your own admission your 60, living somewhere in the country in Ireland surrounded by fields and you write about what London was like 40 years ago so..umm…what the hell would you know was or wasn’t past its sell by date? From reading your previous posts you have a view that London hasn’t progressed since you were last here and ironically the term “nellie queens” which you use quite often hasn’t been uttered since the ’70s is past its sell by date, time for you to move on boyo.
….What the heck has where i live got to do with anything. I visit several English cities including London several times a year in the course of my business. How i refer to the over the top screaming queens is neither here or there, i simply dont like them and am ashamed of how they make the GLB “community” look, staggering about at the weekends on Canal st and Soho areas of London stoned or drunk out of their heads and accosting anything in trousers….. A majority of people think this is how all gay people are and it, as you well know, so isn’t.
As for my view of London, i stand by that assertion, it is dirty, unkempt and actually way more dangerous than it ever was in the last 40 years. One is accosted and abused by thugs of every description, boys, girls, adult men and adult women, black, white asian,. To be honest it has gone back to the London of Victoria or even Dickens. If i could i would never go near the place, but needs must unfortunately.
omg ,i laughed so loud when i read that “nellies” term . i was like wtf! is that. its so tragic, typical of pads.
Nellies; its a nasty loaded term used as a means of abuse. Paddy if you don’t like Soho or Canal St just stay away from these areas, you’re gonna come into contact with the very people you’re railing against. Fair enough you have a dislike of transexuals but if you were to remove them from the mix what would be next bisexuals? Lesbians? You kinda just want a guys-only community.
…”Fair enough you have a dislike of transexuals ” where did you pull that little gem from you moronic imbecile. I have never mentioned trans.. nor have i a problem with trans people. Its the screaming painted nellie queens like you i have the problem with. They are an embarassment to the human race, never mind GLBs and make general society think that is what being gay is. Don’t put words in my mouth a**hole!!
@pads yes you are transphobic too. Gender dysphoria is too cmplex to explain to an idiot like you, but there are variant paths to how one can develop their trans identity, one being early emulation of what is visibly perceived in society as a different sex . You have a problem with men who emulate women as you put it, hence you would also have with the trans community . Racist , transphobic, and homophobic , you are a turd.
I dont blame the fems for the abuse the rest of us get, its the fault of the homophobes, but the fems do often think they own being gay and anyone different is in denial. Personally i think its self doubt that makes them feel this way. Saying it somehow explains why they are that way, its a justification, its pure fear.
his story changes like the wind , now he thinks hes in business, thats why hes on these threads every hour of every day thats his “business”.
LMAO, maybe he’s on here trying to solicit gullible young trade into thinking he’s some loaded sugar daddy. Georgian house in the country, surrounded by fields, over in the UK on business, its like Richard Branson on poppers.
….Again not got the intellect to think….. I own a business which others run for me. it Involves the internet to a great extent and it is such that i have a great amount of free time, but must be available at all times. There are 5 screens in my office/library and i keep facebook, Pink News and one other on one exclusively so it is very easy to respond and comment whenever i want. The story has never changed because i have never revealed my business interests till now. I don’t own a Georgian house in the Irish countryside by “being on these threads every hour of every day” I am able to do so because they are conveniently available and I use a netbook while travelling. If you used your head instead of your balls, you would have realised that i must make a living. Whats your excuse for being on the net 24/7 at 26 years old.??
….”maybe he’s on here trying to solicit gullible young trade into thinking he’s some loaded sugar daddy”
I am happy with the partner iv’e had since 1994 thanks, but if i was looking for a bit on the side i certainly wouldn’t consider any of the trash i see when on the occasional visit to England. Yeuk…for the most part grasping thuggish losers in ill fitting clothes,….. the very idea……yeuuuuw!! Anyway i rarely stay overnight in England if possible. The lads in Ireland are far more interesting and are stylish, educated and mannerly. A credit to their country.
@cmyb , paddys a fantasist , who hates english men obviously because he would’nt get a look in.. Anyhow going by these tthreads irish peeps think hes a to**er too. it would be bad if peeps thought irish people behaved like him.
I’m Irish and I’m embarrassed for him. He has some deep rooted hatred towards the English despite coming here on business, seems its ok to make money in the country as far as he’s concerned. Paddy is stuck in a time warp where gay men are nellies, the English are to be hated along with black and Asian people. He’s a throwback to a time when Ireland was rearing and exporting g0bsh1tes. A vile specimen. I’d be intrigued to see just what his young handsome partner looked like or rather how much he charged Paddy on a weekly basis. Cause Paddy has neither personality or youth on his side.
@cmyb, the young handsome partner exists only in his head like his business.
or check out hobgoblin camden on sundays. Don’t listen to paddy , hes clueless and hates anything too challenging for him visually.
…..again there you go with your favourite word, hate.. Thats the measure of your sad life isn’t it? Again Grow Up oh and get a job….
U get a job or go get your pension and stop telling porkys, you sad racist fantasist . What you even doing on this english site as u take such dislike to us?