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Racism and homophobia ‘worse in chaotic environments’

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  1. Jock S. Trap 8 Apr 2011, 12:03pm

    Kinda wondering how much this cost to state the bleedin obvious.

    1. TheSuburban Bi 8 Apr 2011, 1:20pm

      I know. Same here… I think things like, “I coulda put in a new kitchen and finished the decking, if only they’d have paid me to tell them that. And I’d only have charged them half.”

    2. Helen Wilson 8 Apr 2011, 1:24pm

      As much as it costs to keep the department of sociology open at Tilburg University. This research is probably the end result of someone’s PHD.

    3. Half baked research anyway – coming to an obvious conclusion …

      Why would cleaners on strike at Utrecht rail station be a respresentative sample?????

      It is clear that when people are in a chaotic situation and stressed they will probably be more polar in their thoughts and opinions

      1. Staircase2 8 Apr 2011, 3:13pm

        The article says that they tested people DURING a cleaners strike – not that they tested cleaners……

        1. Thanks Staircase2 – thats not how I read it – but it appears I misread it. I will check other reporting too to see how the contributors were selected.
          I still dont see cleaners or users of Utrecht station are particularly obviously representative. I also think it is a pretty obvious psychological and sociological observation to make.

          1. users of Utrecht station are as random as it gets so you cant accuse researchers of selecting particular group to manipulate the poll

  2. Helen Wilson 8 Apr 2011, 1:11pm

    This sort of thing has its advantages, especially while travelling on public transport. I have lost count of the number of time people would rather stand than sit next to a trans person on a busy bus or train! If peoples bigotry gives me more room why worry, they lose out on a bit of comfort by acting irrationally.

    It not as if I can infect transsexualism on them.

    1. Infecting transexualism – the ridiculous nature of that made me burst out loud in laughter – Thank you Helen

  3. Corect me if I’m wrong but I don’t see how this artical has anything to do with catolics.

    1. Staircase2 8 Apr 2011, 3:26pm


      It doesnt! lol

      whats it got to do with Catholics?

    2. Paddyswurds 8 Apr 2011, 3:26pm

      ………….”Corect me if I’m wrong but I don’t see how this artical has anything to do with catolics.” It has nothing to do with “catolics” (sic) The word your confusing is Chaotic…..which means something like your head…

  4. Is this a very late April fools? 40 cleaners at Utrecht station? Messy station, clean station. WTF!

    1. Staircase2 8 Apr 2011, 3:15pm


      Read the bloody articles – PLEASE!

      1. Paddyswurds 8 Apr 2011, 5:05pm

        ….lol….Unbelieveable numbskulls..

      2. TheSuburban Bi 8 Apr 2011, 5:05pm


        I feel your pain, staircase2

    2. 40 cleaners, 40 people, 40 aliens. Does it matter? It’s very clean in Saudi Arabia and no strikes, and it’s very homophobic. Soho in London, (London in general) is a complete mess, litter everywhere, but not as homophobic. St. Peter’s square in Rome, very clean, very homophobic. Canal Street in Manchester, total dump, not as homophobic. Germany, very clean country, most racist place I’ve ever been. The study is so futile, I can’t even believe I’m replying to you. I still think it’s an April fools, or Steve Brewer is very bored.

      1. Its not an April fool – its reported widely in the international media

        I do agree that looking at how clean a place is does not seem to link to whether it is homophobic or racist or not – in my experience …

        I do think chaos brings out more entrenched characteristics in you, but thats hardly news

        As for surveying 40 people – sheesh!

  5. Staircase2 8 Apr 2011, 3:21pm

    This sounds like a very good piece of research.

    Yes it appears obvious – but as far as I know theres not been any reported research in this area before.

    And the reason this stuff is neccesary is because just because something ‘appears’ to make sense doesn’t mean that it actually does.

    There’s all kinds of things which are bloody obvious in our society (ie poorer communities producing far more criminal activity than wealthier communities/better educated people producing far less criminals etc etc etc). But despite knowing these things (and in those particular cases having strong evidence to support them) public policy does very little about them.

    Just like we know what kinds of things make children grow up healthy, well behaved, happy individuals yet we have a society full of unhealthy, badly behaved and desperately unhappy children and adults.

    1. But staircase how would public policy be informed by this research?

      And even if it was would it make any difference – given that (as you rightly say) there are areas of well documented research into areas where the outcome is obvious eg increase in crime/public health problems in deprived areas, but the government fail to act despite the research demonstrating the obvious is correct

      1. Paddyswurds 8 Apr 2011, 5:22pm

        …….Couldn’t it just be informative and interesting.
        All research doesn’t necessarily have to have a social consequence.
        The whingers who are cribbing about the cost haven’t really thought very hard on the nature of the research which probably took all of two hours on two seperate days, and was probably carried out as the result of an interesting conversation between these two doctors along the lines of “i wonder what if”
        The video which was shown on BBC earlier in the week, of that Gay DJ dude who went to Uganda would seem to confirm their findings tho. Utter chaos and filth and amidst it all, the only thing they seemed worried about was what the “bible” said about homosexuality.
        Fit those people better they got up off their knees and cleaned up their country rather than worry about what people do in the privacy of their beds.

        1. It could be informative and interesting – but it still used public resources … I’m not sure about the Dutch higher education finances but if the are anything like the UK – they shoul be setting about providing value for money.
          Interesting yes – news no. Beneficial – doubtful.

          1. Paddyswurds 8 Apr 2011, 10:12pm

            ….where did you get the idea that public resources were used as it didn’t say so in the PN article. Is this University not a private Institution. The article did however say that the “experiment was small scale” and probably was undertaken as the result of as i said an interesting conversation.
            I think you are being obtuse and pedantic for the sake of it, over what was clearly a social experiment of no great consequence and clearly no great expenditure.. All i said was that it was informative and interesting but of no great social consequence or indeed news.

          2. @Paddyswurds

            Firstly, Tilburg University is a publically funded Dutch University. Even if the time doing the actual research was minimal – the collation of results, writing and planning etc will have taken time than could have been employed elsewhere.

            It was small scale the research – only 40 people surveyed on each occasion … hardly reliable – which is part of my point – not only is the information provided of no significant use – but even if it was it isnt reliable due to sample size.

            That is the second time you have accused me of being obtuse when that is not the intention. I just fail to see anything valuable that comes from this research – it cant change anything and isnt reliable …

            I do agree it is interesting … but thats it.

  6. Staircase2 8 Apr 2011, 3:25pm

    ‘How much does this cost’ is the dying-breath excuse of a society which is trying to avoid taking care of itself in favour of only taking care of certain, already more priviledged sections.

    If you were to do the maths, you would find that in every single place where we think something is ‘too expensive’ to spend money on, the knock on effects later down the line actually cost us enormous amount more.

    Witness crime and the cost of putting someone into prison versus the cost of ensuring that every child has a decent education and enough food to eat.

    Witness ill health and the cost of keeping people on life saving medication for life versus the cost of proper health education campaigns

    Witness the cost of obesity versus to cost of banning all processed food ‘hidden’ ingredients which we know to be harmful

    Its not how much these things cost to do – but how much they cost to NOT do

  7. Paddyswurds 8 Apr 2011, 3:30pm

    This confirms my contention that most of the idiots posting on these threads either cant read or dont know what they are reading. One idiot confused Chaotic with “catolics”…… Catholics and a couple of others thought it was the cleaners who were tested. Mind you the article could have been better written and was rather chaotic in itself.

    1. Helen Wilson 8 Apr 2011, 3:35pm

      Its probably been translated from Dutch to English that’s why it seems so badly done.

    2. The confusion between Catholics and Chaotic, has been the most amusing thing I have read for a long time.

      Who said the dissemination of academic research was dry and dusty

  8. Its an interesting piece of research

    However at one location with only 40 white people consulted.

    With the authors uncertain of any significance for public policy

  9. People get less virtuous as the situation gets more desperate?It’s a damn good thing we’ve got all these researchers finding these things out so we can remain informed of the situation!

  10. Christine Beckett 9 Apr 2011, 7:00pm

    ““There is a possibility that people may quickly adapt to disorder, so I would be very wary of concluding that people who live in unclean and disordered areas are more prejudiced because of that.””

    What he means is that there is in fact little or no correlation between the two, and the research was so random as to be meaningless, as well as worthless.


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