The pic isnt great quality but this really looks like it could be the guy i saw putting these up.
Its not bad quality compared to some CCTV
I hope everyone who has seen this man contacts BTP to help them identify them..
People may think they dont have anything of value to add but a seemingly meaningless piece of information may be just what the police need to solve this
we agree on something, for once.
At last …
I’m shocked, he doesn’t look like your average EDL supporter. ;-)
(He said tongue firmly in cheek)
Only the very naive simpletons tried to insist on that edl involvement.
…like the naive simpletons that nearly got conned into being a front for an EDL rally in East London a few weeks ago.
To be fair though Paddy, they’ve all been big enough to admit they were stupid enough to be conned ….. oh, no, sorry, that’s right, they didn’t did they!!
@paddy , you are a terrorist sympathising low life , sub species incapable of any rationality. you seem obsessed with islam , defining it as race, because you are soo stupid , you cannot tell the difference. Its funny you should live in n.ireland, the whitest place in britain , considering that you have such a delusional”racist” chip on your shoulder and also take issue with abrahamic cults. Maybe you are too obtuse to understand your contradiction. Why not live in a multicultural area ? rather than shout a pathetic child like “racist” at anyone who does and raises a critique of islam. Ultimately , because you would rather live in a white area and everyone sees you as the hypocrite you are. I don’t normally read your posts as you are a lunatic, so please feel free to wish me dead as you normally do , you are so full of hate . i hope i will never be as disgusting and grotesque as you when i’m an oap.
….”Its funny you should live in n.ireland, the whitest place in britain” That line says more than your whole pathetic rant. Your grasp of geography is as bad as your grasp of English.
Britain is an off shore island approx 65 miles off the coast of Ireland . A small part of the north of Ireland is for the moment a politically administered region of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. As thsi is the case Ireland is in no way part of britain (sic). You appear to be able to read but your understanding of your own language is pathetic to say the least. I never ever have been obsessed with any religion much less with Islam. What i was attempting to do was point out that Islam was being used as a cover by the facist racists for racism against the Asians of East London…. as a cover for that racism because you know that to be blatently racist would get you banned of this site. The stupid point of why don’t I live in a multicultural area can equally be.
….applied to you. As you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about the Asians of E. London why don’t you live in a lily white area like the home counties or the Islands of Scotland say.
Having travelled the world I now choose to live my senior years where I was born. Period.
As for your perception of ones hatred, that is just that, your paranoid perception. A trait typical of all fascist racists. Finally it is no surprise to hear that you don’t read my posts as you possess neither the intellect or intelligence to understand most of what I write, and to be honest I would be greatly distressed to discover that the likes of you would ever ever agree with anything one has to say.
As for how you will be when you grow old, unless you change greatly, you are already a grotesque paranoid fascist racist, festering in your own bile.
@paddy being predictable is your forte i see. your view of me is as irrelevant as a tuird on the street , you are a very racist, homophobic , sexist piece of filth. and i have no more desire to interact with scum like u.
Best ignore him. He’s been at the Jim Beam again, sitting in his home in Ireland clearly knowing nothing about the problems LGBT people in East London are having to put up while assuming he knows best.
It all very sad.
….you just confirmed every point I made in my rather lengthy comment with the few pathetic words you managed in rebuttal. Racist, Homophobic and Sexist…..really?
@jock yes , best to ignore it , which i usually do.
As i pointed out earlier, it is best you do ignore all my posts, as you possess neither the intellect or intelligence to understand anything on any of these threads, never mind my comments. Your grasp of the English language, it’s grammar and nuances are also infantile at best. This also, of course, applies to a few of those who would sympathise with you or agree with you.
I often think that rapture delivers insightful, considered, balanced and sophisticated views …
…I presume you are being facetious in you praise of raptures comments. Of 301 comments he posted 8 times and the majority were snide three line (at most) jibes and and praise for fascist group EDL. The only lengthy comments were a couple of anti irish, racist, and uninformed rants at me which were neither insightfulor considered and certainly not balanced. I respectfully suggest you read the above two posts he made in reply to me and then comment again.
@paddy you are such a liar typical of you, maybe you can refer me to any anti irish commentary , you lied that i made ,or was it the voices in your head. Its interesting to see your stalking ability , that you have actually counted how many comments i’ve made. you really are pathetic.
@stu , thanks, and i do appreciate your views even if i seem defensive and they are not mine, its how i coped growing up.
@ rapture and Paddyswurds
I was not being sarcastic in the slightest when I said that rapture is often (I don’t always agree or think it) insightful and clearly has considered issues. I also was not considering this discussion thread. There are things we have agreed in full or in part on and some we have not. At times things have been said in a way I would have worded things and at other times not. Equally, I am sure rapture would be able to criticise or critique many things that I have said.
I think it was perfectly legitimate to consider the EDL as potential suspects in the stickering (not to insist on it as the most likely option). It is also reasonable given how it appears the police investigation is progressing that such a reasonable possibility appears to be less likely (not ruled out completely).
I was going to say exactly the same thing. The hoodie is obviously hiding his shaven head tattooed with a swastika.
Well said. You just got in before me. Those insisting on blaming these stickers on the EDL (am I’m not a member) should read them again and bear in mind the Duck Guidelines; if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it’s most likely NOT an osprey…
If it walks like a racist, writes like a racist and talks like a racist it probably is a right wing racist facist. End of.
Hello Paddyswords. You know very little about me, so don’t name-call; it’s childish. You would also strengthen any case you may have by not finishing any contribution with ‘end of’. This arrogant, foolish phrase does not exactly indicate a mind able to engage in, or prepared to, debate and shows only contempt for those who disagree. Just a word to the wise. Best wishes,
@ Rufus red
…………what makes you think i was addressing you, you arrogant twat…… and you have the temerity to call me arrogant.But hey if the shoe fits wear it………..END OF!!!
Refus, you’re forgetting of course the lecture we all had about the many Muslim members that the EDL insisted it has. This could be one of them
Or we could of course be prejudging Mr Fotofit on the basis that he has black hair and a bit of skin tone. Contrary to rumour, I’m not sure the fascist community is entirely made up of pure white complexioned skin heads.
Well said. You just got in before me. Those insisting on blaming these stickers on the EDL (and I’m not a member) should read them again and bear in mind the Duck Guidelines; if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it’s most likely NOT an osprey…
And maybe it’s the EDL who are responsible for torturing that gay guy in saudi arabia recently. And maybe it was the EDL who hang the gay guys in iran. And the EDL must have written all the homophobic sections of the koran and hadith. And the EDL are the ones who preach homophobic hate speech in the mosques too………… Or perhaps not.
Yep, too many people chosing to be ignorant over these posters.
I trust the useful idiots who kept suggesting it was an EDL ‘black op’ rather than a common or garden Islamist homophobic hate campaign will be back to eat their words and admit their craven idiocy.
Probably not, though.
I doubt it. Plus I expects those organisations who fought hard to stop the original being EEGP March will continue to make excuses for them too.
Yes, I’m waiting for another lovely open letter form our supposed saviours and protectors. I mean after all they were doing this to protect us, not for any political reasons at all…oh no – not they.
yes i’m waiting for rainbow tower hamlets and imman to be sued for defammation by the edl.
One can only hope!
‘common or garden’………?! lol
you daft sod!
Give up on the Islamophobia people!
Scapegoating doesnt help anyone. Its not Islam thats the problem here but the narrow minded bigots who use that as an excuse. Just like its not Jesus’s fault/God’s Fault etc etc etc for the idiot Christians who use them as an excuse either.
Focusing in the wrong direction does nothing but stir up fear and hatred – it doesn’t actually solve the problem it just perpetrates it.
And ignoring the problem is even worse. It won’t go away.
Yep, we’ll tuck in after all those who got sucked into East End Pride by the EDL and its supports have the b@lls to admit they were conned.
You people are like a bunch of children. Do you really need it explained to you carefully and slowly? Very well. Here it is in the plainest English I can muster.
Group 1 claimed these posters were definitely put up by muslims. Group 2 claimed that they MIGHT have been put up by EDL supporters in order to stoke up anti-muslim sentiment.
Group 2 didn’t doubt that it could be a muslim extremist. As a member of group 2, I’d like to say I always thought it was the more likely of the two options. However, we didn’t like the way group 1 believed themselves to be psychic. This went against all we’d ever been taught about logic, rationality, law, even plain old common sense.
I thought this MIGHT have been the work of the EDL (despite also acknowledging other possibilities). I feel so ashamed. Really. Alright, no, I’m clearly just mocking you with sarcasm. :p
I do think the toys have spilled out of the pram from some on this issue and the way you descirbe it seems perfectly reasonable to me.
We all know this is a serious issue. Anyone who can look at this with any sense of proportion and reasonableness will be able to see there are many possibilities for motive for carrying out these crimes.
I agree that, at face value, it appears with the release of this image the option of EDL having commited this is less likely
I am intigued why the BTP police are the lead on this (the BTP have VERY limited resources so lets not hope for an early resolution)
“Group 2 claimed that they MIGHT have been put up by EDL supporters in order to stoke up anti-muslim sentiment.”
You are either ignorant or a liar. This is from Pink News at the time:
“However, Jack Gilbert, the co-chair of LGBT forum Rainbow Hamlets, suggested that the stickers could be the work of the groups such as the English Defence League.
“We have evidence that they were very likely to have been produced by far-right sources in order to forment community tension,” he said.”
So where is the ‘evidence’, liars/fools?
Jack Gilbert? Come on, put your money where your mouth is or be known as a lying scumbag.
The important word there is “could”
Exactly. Did the guy not have any inkling that the perpetrator might be identified, or even caught?
That said, just to play devil’s advocate, just because the photo is of an Asian doeskin mean he’s a Muslim. The EDL claim to have Asians and Blacks in their ranks, so it’s not cut and dried yet. Maybe it IS an Osprey.
It is feasible that you are right there, although the odds have decreased.
As I said earlier to AdrianT in a post, its seems far more likely that extremist Muslims are involved in this – but it is not the only explanation that is possible.
I’m not Jack Gilbert. I am an individual with individual ideas and beliefs. Nor am I affiliated with this Gilbert.
The question, Pumpkin, is what is more LIKELY, given the evidence? Peter Tatchell claimed the police knew who was behind the sticker campaign (according to his speech at the GAHLA meeting, 18 march), look at the other Islam4UK stickers in Whitechapel; look at the attacks not only on LGBT people in the area, but on women who do not wear Islamic dress – death threats against LBTH councillors; the attack against RE teacher gary Smith last July for teaching muslim girls about other faiths; and look at the numerous hate preeachers who have been hosted at the East London, Mosque, the London islamic Centre next door, and even at Queen MAry University up the road. And look at the youth organisations sprouting up funded by the council – with links to Saudi extremists. Thie is the tip of the iceberg in an area that has long since been handed over to radical extremists. For anyone to say it ‘might’ have been the EDL, given all the evidence, is burying their head in the sand.
I agree it seems far more likely that it these incidents have been carried out by one or more Islamic extremists – whether co-ordinated or not.
There certainly are significant issues (in East London particularly but also elsewhere) connected to a particular strand of Muslims. The problems that these people cause is relevant to all society because their hatred has the potential to impact on all of us.
That said, whilst the investigation is ongoing, I thinkits merely keeping an open mind to say that there are other potential motives.
If I was investigating this (as a former police officer) I would probably be putting a significant proportion of my energy into identifying particular people within the Islamic communities who may be responsible
“I thinkits merely keeping an open mind to say that there are other potential motives.”
Gilbert claimed he had ‘evidence’. I repeat: where is the evidence?
I have no idea where the evidence is – I had no involvement in that particular part of the previous debate. It does not stop me having an open mind – innocent until proven guilty …
..but not such an open mind, that our brains drop out ;-)
But equally not so closed minded that we undermine natural justice (and this is a criminal justice issue)
Oh my goodness. I can’t do this over and over again. It’s like banging my head on a brick wall. I’m glad Stu, who makes good points and has more patience than me, was around to speak to you lot.
For anyone to say it ‘might’ have been the EDL, given all the evidence, is burying their head in the sand.
No. This is absolute crap. Every time there’s a murder in Israel or Palestine, why not just arrest exclusively muslims or jews (depending on who’s been murdered)? Are you seriously trying to tell me that we should try to figure out perpetrators of individual crimes based on which demographic hates the target the most?
Also, learn the bloody difference between “might” and “is”. I can’t believe I’m supposed to be talking to adults here.
Furthermore, ctrl+F and see my response to Christine Beckett. I explain there exactly why some of us thought it might be a good idea to offer up an alternative hypothesis when 90% of the board had already solved the crime from their armchairs.
However circumstantial evidence seems to point firmly at this being an EDL operation, especially given their attempt a couple of weeks later to con the gay community of the area stickered into being a front for all intents and purposes, an EDL rally and coat trailing exercise. EDL members actually all but admitted it was to be an EDL rally on these threads after the “pride” was cancelled
Even if circumstantial evidence may point to the EDL being involved – the reality is that circumstantial evidence is insufficent alone to prove something beyond reasonable doubt.
Now, I do think the possibility of the EDL being involved still remains for a number of reasons – although the liklihood given the very public new information direct from the investigating police team suggests that may not be the case.
So as much as I would criticise those who said it was impossible to link the EDL to this crime – because its not having an open mind on the possibilities. I would also criticise them if they said the CCTV image categorically ruled an EDL link out – it doesnt but it does appear to reduce the liklihood. However, I would also criticise anyone saying the EDL were definitely involved – there is insufficient evidence in the public arena to say this.
I will await results of this pics identifation but i looked more Asian than that in my twenties when i had a full beard. I by the way am Irish and the closest i come to being Asian was when a distant relative around 4000 BC married the daughter of an Egyptian Pharoh
Yeah sure, it was obviously an EDL-er, wasn’t it? Rainbow Hamlets and assorted useful idiots like yourself have tried to spin this to serve the interests of anyone but LGBT people. The game is up. Why don’t you just eat your words and stop digging?
Fat chance. Some people just chose to remain stupid.
Do you have the church records to prove that?
Some of us have minds of our own and are not in thrall to any organisation whether, racist, facist, paedophilic, or Abrahamic fiction pixie in the sky. Church records have no meaning to anyone with a modicum of sense, and there are other records other than those kept by homophobic paedophiles.
From the beginning of this – I am not a member of the EDL and I do not in any way shape or form support them – I think they are heinous despite what some of their apologists on here would try and have us believe.
That said, I think there is no doubt that the picture released by the BTP appears to be an Asian male
I totally disagree …this could have been me in my early twenties and i’m certainly not Asian.
I would have described him as appearing to be of Asian appearance not just because of how I see the skin colour, but the hair colour and appearance, the facial features etc
Either of us may be right or wrong but hopefully the police will identify the person.
That said, even if they do identify the offender and succeed in prosecuting him – that is only one part of resolving a difficult and complex community relations situation in East London
What a cnut
Think someones been at the Jim Bean already.
lucky james! if he has been at the liqeeerrrrrrr,
@ james pfft !!!
How would that make you Asian though?
Its amazing how quiet Jack Gilbert and Terry Stewart have become…
Then what do you expect. No doubt they’re thinking up some real juicy excuses.
So looking forward to hearing them.
Probably doing something worthwhile, rather than bitching on here I guess
Bitching? What you mean like you are? I wondered when you’d show your bitchy face again. Are you doing something worthwhile? No, thought not.
a brown(ish) face for all to see, and that means what?
It means it was a Paki, you moron.
Really I know plenty of people who have brown skin and there not from Pakistan ……. or where you meaning it as an offensive term for asian
Unlike you then.
Jack Gilbert claimed he had ‘evidence’:
“We have evidence that they were very likely to have been produced by far-right sources in order to forment community tension,” he said.” (Pink News)
So where is Gilbert’s evidence now?
What’s wrong Jack, has Abu Usama got your tongue?
Certainly looks like a typical EDL-er to me….
….and he’s probably got his Qur’an in that man bag…yea right.
You mean instead of plastic explosives?
People like Imaan and Out East and Rainbow Hamlets have proven they will support islamic homophobia, and will put the lives of ordinary gay people at risk instead.
Now we want to hear about the other 4 “asians” the police arrested and released. We want those responsible prosecuted for incitement to hatred.
We in EDL knew we had nothing to do with these stickers (we’d been warning about them when they appeared in Derby last July, and they appeared in Whitechapel last October — both cases hidden by the media, even though they were publicised on left-wing and right-wing websites).
Out East & Rainbow Hamlets are determined that there would be no gay pride march in east london. It’s clear now their plans are such to ensure that does not happen at all. They are anti-gay and pro-islam.
You are still fascist scum that sought to capitalise on this to stage a fascist demo in the East End using the rainbow flag as cover for fascism.
The LGBT can handle our own business, we don’t need EDL thuggery.
and we definitely don’t need imman and rainbow hamlets.
or the EDL for that fact. This is about the LGBT community, their families, their friends and their supporters making a stand against homophobia and hatred. That includes All LGBT people within All other communites and areas
As said we have been perfectly capable of sticking up for ourselves.
Produce your evidence that EDL is fascist. Start with a definition of fascism, you ignorant moron. EDL is not corporatist, it believe in democracy, liberalism and human rights. EDL is opposed to anti-semitism and opposed to homophobia. You’re clearly a UAF drone who is incapable of thinking for yourself or doing any research.
But at least two reports by experts have said a) “EDL are not a far right organisation” [Police Domestic Extremism Unit], b) “EDL is not driven by a fascist or neo-fascist ideological end-goal.” [Prof. Copsey, Faith Matters report on EDL].
EDL had nothing to do with EEGP. But people like you and Out East/Imaan were determined there would be no manifestation of homosexuality in east London, because you put islam and sharia law above equality and human rights.
If these people are not prosecuted for incitement to hatred, then there may well be a return of EDL to Tower Hamlets.
Particularly when the likes of the UAF who campaign against the EDL do so with known homophobic/racist Islamic preachers.
I can’t speak on behalf of Paddyswurd but I didnt interpret what he was saying as a defence of Muslims and would be surprised if he did. I read it as a strident comment about the wrongs of the EDL and fascists (whether or not they are the same thing)
And what are muslims Paddy? I think you’ll find that gay people were killed by n4zi’s – just like muslims do. Muslims however, especially iranian, egyptian (at the time) think that h1tlers anti semitism and homophobia was a good idea – so before you start defending muslims by calling edl n4zis, you should take a look at what muslims do in the world.
no matter how much edl propaganda u throw at us u r clearly facist and racist
You ought to make him an honorary Paki, then.
…How long did it take you to come up with that gem of wisdom….??
How long did it take you to learn how join in with grown up debate?
Oh sorry, my mistake, you havent …
yeah I’ll believe the EDL (and UAF) actually care about LGBT people when I actually see their organisers jumping on people for using homophobic and transphobic language at demos and in other forums (yes I’ve been called a f*****g faggot and other words to that effect a number by both sides). If your group gives a toss about LGBT people you’ll stop you mates from insultuing us until then you know where the door is don’t let it hit you on the way out (that goes for UAF too).
I am sick of LGBT people being used by the right and the left to try and prove how accepting they are and it’s really sad to see people falling for it.
Absolutely. The EDL and UAF, when they support LGBT rights, it is totally by accident. EDL thugs who appear friendly to you, will be the same people who will tear you to shreds in the football stadium. UAF of course, have their own agenda and Anjem Choudary / UAF use each other. And idiots like Out East kowtow to them.
UAF may as well be the EDL, they are as idiotic and bigoted.
I agree with something else you say!
I don’t quite know the answer to the challenge brought by the EDL and UAF nor the current heightened tensions in the East End, but I do know that bigotry of any sort will not solve it. I know that quasi support of bigots also wil not solve it.
Hopefully somewhere we can get some rationality soon.
I suspect it may get worse before it gets better unfortunately.
Ok, not to disagree or anything but in what way are the EDL fascist? Any evidence?
@Helen Wilson ……
A lonely voice of reason in the facist wilderness, Hear Hear Helen.!
Helen you are bloody paranoid, grown up babe!
When people insist on calling us “homos” it doen’t suggest friendly Paulo. I suppose at least they didn’t put “Queers”.
Maybe they should show Gay-friendly language if they want to convince they accept the LGBT community.
Makes sense to me Jock
Unfortunately, the “evidence” I have seen for them being gay friendly is far from gay friendly IMHO
@ paulo silvo
……Interesting to note that you don’t allow comment on your facist racist GLB / EDL facebook page.
@ evreyone whomisn’t racist…….
Go to paulos page and scroll down to “report this page” If enough of us report it perhaps facebook will realise how racist facist it is and delete it.
Paddy, I see you are trying to silence someone whose views you don’t like. Just like a fascist would.
.the least your comment says is that you do recognise what facists stand for……
Yes, I do recognise what fascists stand for. And?
“Now we want to hear about the other 4 “asians” the police arrested and released. We want those responsible prosecuted for incitement to hatred.”
I hadn’t heard about this. But then again, that’s no real surprise as the media, especially on the left, seems to want to whitewash the whole embarassing matter.
There is no way anyone will be charged, of course. The police have already shown themselves to be utterly dishonest on this matter and less interested in dealing with homophobia than in serving the interests of others.
edl supporter………….yea right!!
You lot ought to have a closer look at the pic ffs…this guy is an asian, so stop blaming the EDL for this, not unless they now have asian members….wake up for god sake and look closer
Um… read it again, Andy.
We were being facetious. Well, most of us were.
Andy, they assured us last week that they did
Paki, to be exact. They split India, they’ll do the same to Britain next. While all these fairies sit here and shout up for Islamic rights. What rights? What will be YOUR rights when Sharia Law is the norm here?
more “obvious” wisdom…..The British partitioned India. Has cbeebies closed down for the night, pet.??
I don’t think it is possible to work out which part of Asia his predecessors may be from, Obvious …
You seem very keen to rush to judgement based on perception rather than evidence
“all these fairies” – almost homophobic in your taunts too
…you are a bore!
Why don’t we all get together in a huge grouu. Go and place some posters up OURSELVES instead of allowing ourselves to be caught in this petty war amongst the EDL, Rainbow Hamlets and some Iwannabee Islamic militants (who let’s face it are small boys playing grown-ups).
Looking at that poor quality photo, at first glance I would say this man looks like he’s of middle eastern descent, but I could be wrong. CCTV photos are not the best quality at any rate.
I would be happy to say Middle Eastern as a possibility …
what a bunch of facist racist losers….. get a life.
I can certainly see how all fascists would quiver in fear at your crystal clear grasp of the English language and your oratory skills.
Who’s a fascist dear? You know it’s not nice to throw words at people without evidence. Shouting at someone rarely has results or were you not taught that at finishing school?
oops……….fcukin keyboard battery
Fascism is Homophobic, Misogynist, Racist, anti-communist, anti-democratic, anti-individualist, anti-liberal, anti-parliamentary, anti-conservative, anti-bourgeois and anti-proletarian, and in many cases anti-capitalist.Fascism rejects the concepts of egalitarianism, materialism, and rationalism in favour of action, discipline, hierarchy, spirit, and will. In economics, fascists oppose liberalism, and Marxism for being exclusive economic class-based movements Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that promotes resolving economic class conflict to secure national solidarity.
Is that crystal clear enough for you a55hole…..
And that i didn’t learn in finshing skule…….
Such charm and charisma. You truly are a joy to behold.
There are issues with your little tirade.
My belief is that anyone who calls someone else a name without thought is as equally thuggish as the people he protests against.
….issues…and they are???
paddy, your fascist definition describes the muslims you so want to defend.
…not my definition…Concise Oxford Dictionary and Enclyopedia Brittanica actually but i agree with them wholeheartedly.
So you think muslims are fascist?
Your response is infantile and silly to say the least.
Why is my response infantile and silly? I asked you a question? I asked you if you think muslims are fascist, as your definition of fascism in the most part describes islam – homophobic, misogynist, undemocratic, non individualistic, non liberal….etc. etc. It was you who defined fascism, not me.
So, do you think that islam is fascist? and btw, fascists usually hate jews, just like the majority of the muslim world.
“Fascism is Homophobic, Misogynist, Racist, anti-communist, anti-democratic, anti-individualist, anti-liberal, anti-parliamentary, anti-conservative, anti-bourgeois and anti-proletarian, and in many cases anti-capitalist.”
You’re describing Islam, you hopeless junkie.
@ non obvious…
A complete description of fascism taken from The Concise Oxford Dictionary and Encyclopedia Brittanica.. Could also be describing Christianity don’t you think?? But then you’d hardly know as a dictionary or even book is a foreign concept to you.
Yes, perhaps it could be describing christianity, but we’re talking about islam, because these stickers that this news story is about, had islamic text on them calling for a ‘gay free zone’.
@Paddyswurds and Eddy
The definition that was chosen to illustrate facism could describe a number of groups including some Christians, some Muslims, some Jews, some atheists, and many others
The EDL certainly have been reviewed by at least one body as not being right wing – which would fit parts of this definition. That said, they don’t fit the entire definition.
You forgot anti-Irish.
They can’t be all bad then. :)
….how utterly predictible of you…….
I am well able to believe that the EDL is not a fascist organisation in the model of the National Socialists.
However, what is particularly unsettling is the very front page of the EDL website, which displays people with their face covered with English-flag masks and a white shield bearing a red cross stating “No surrender to Al-Qaeda”.
That makes the EDL look menacing and thuggish.
Muslims in Britain are out-numbered 19:1. Can you show us the news reports showing the Osman Notices (assassination notices) given to the muslim fanatics in Britain? They don’t exist. Yet Osman Notices were served on leaders of the EDL for a second time last week. You don’t find that menacing and thuggish?
You’re capable of looking at a website and forming a political opinion based on an image, but you can’t be bothered to scroll down and read a couple of articles?
Middle class chattering liberals have had decades to deal with the rise of islamic fundamentalism in Britain. They’ve singularly failed.
Now it’s the turn of the working-class to deal with it. When you and your loved ones are prepared to live under threat of death, I’ll listen to your pathetic concerns about EDL looking menacing and thuggish. Houses associated (rightly or wrongly) with EDL were fire-bombed in Luton last week.
“Houses associated with EDL were fire-bombed in Luton last week.”
….ha , about time someone stood up to the Fascist racist EDL……No one stood up to the Naz!’s on the thirties and see where that little omision ended…..
Paddy, so you think that people with ideas that you don’t agree with should be bombed? You sound like an islamic terrorist.
And actually, the people who did stand up to the n4zis in the end were british nationalists who didn’t want their country overtaking by a foreign power.
….”.the people who did stand up to the n4zis in the end were british nationalists”
…albeit a bit late tho don’t you agree.
Better late than never. But I see you still think that people with ideas different to yours should be bombed?
…see last comment by me above….
Your comments do not make any sense.
….same as your then?
You have still not answered Eddy’s question
…. obviously I wouldn’t agree with the fire bombing, but what i was attempting to say and failing obviously was that these facists need standing up to, before it is too late. Noone stood up to the facist ascendency of the 1930s and see where that got us. By the way, Eddy himself was fairly ambigious about the fire bombings.
I wouldn’t have expected you to support firebombing – but it did seem as though you might be in one of your comments.
Absolutely fascists need standing up to – and in extreme circumstances that will sometimes include actions that are not legal. I think of situations like the people of Benghazi faced recently. In the absence of such conditions (thankfully) it is incumbant on us to act strongly and vigorously to condemn and expose bigotry whilst remaining within the law.
We also need to take care to remain calm and levelheaded as our emotional response to bigotry can sometimes make us correctly stand up against the bigotry but lose a sense of proportion.
….Thank you for your unexpectedly reasoned response.
I note that nothing you have said disagrees with my assessment, not a political one, that the pictures on the EDL website made it look menacing and thuggish. Neither have you said that it is a bad thing for the EDL to look menacing and thuggish.
I also doubt that the “working class” is a corporate group that shares no more than one view and that can act as a single entity.
I am sorry not to be familiar with what is an Osman Notice and so cannot respond to that.
Finally, I fail to see how my loved ones being under a death threat in any way enhances the consistency or logic of my concerns, which presumably should stand or fall on their own merit.
This article may help you understand Osman notices
So definitely not EDL then.
Don’t think we can categorically say no until there is a successful prosecution (hopefully) but, at face value, it looks less likely
It is really annoying me that if anyone points out that this boy is asian we are being racist and some fools starts shouting about how it might still be the EDL blah blah.
I am not racist. I do not support the EDL. I quite frankly dont care what relaigious backround the person putting up these stickers is as long as they are caught and justice is done.
Why is everyone getting so caught up with that part of this story?
This has been done. It is wrong. I want whoever was behind it to be brought to justice regardless of the the hell they are.
Yep, thats just some idiots way of thinking no-one has the right to debate, Esp if they don’t agreed with those certain people.
The part of this debate that I am finding particularly frustrating are that where there is disagreement, some people are not taking a calm step back and then responding, but instead are resorting to personal vicious attacks which undermine their arguments (unfortunately in some cases).
I know its a very emotive issue whichever side of the debate one agrees with. If we are to debate though – at least if we ridicule, lets try and do it with facts rather than vindictiveness and aggression.
The debate doesnt get anywhere when we leave facts to one side.
…don’t know if you’ve noticed though that the really nasty vitriole and agression seems to come from the pro EDL side. That is not to say however that i haven’t responded with like , but it does seem to be a trait of the side with most to gain from a positive, (from their point of view) result to the investigations on going, if in fact there are ongoing investigations, which i seriously doubt. The police arent exactly 1005 pro gay in London and in particular the East of, as there are quite a few closet EDL supporters in the police.
I’m not going to get involved in a squabble about which sides aggression was first or who was worse … I shall leave that part of it to one side .. I just don’t think it helps the debate.
In terms of the investigations – there are 3 interesting things to say about that.
1) The police aren’t pro gay in London … that stereotyping undermines the good work many gay and gay friendly officers do across the UK and London on a daily basis. There are bad apples – but many examples of good practice that go unremarked upon.
2) The BTP (interesting choice of force) are conducting the enquiry. An officer has been intereviewed about it giving an auditable serial number of the enquiry – so if its handled wrongly or there is any neglect of duty in the investigation it can be dealt with. But, they are a force with limited resources so it will probably be slow progress.
3) The police have to be seen to be proactive in dealing with this issue – its a high profile case and potentially,.
… very damaging not only to community relations but also the careers of officers and their managers if this one is handled badly
Sad State of affairs when all the outrage and supposion and accusation detract from the actual appeal !
Find the guy ! establish the facts ! then pass jusgement everything else is posturing to your own agendas!
EDL or not EDL? That’s the question.
Meanwhile, the government travel the World selling chickens to puppets and dictators, while playing the victim when those chickens come home to roost.
just wanted to point out that this man is ‘wanted for questioning’. He has not been charged let alone convicted of anything. If he is both then I will be the first to admit that I am very surpised.
Popular opinion is outraged when images of carnage and war reach their tellies, but most ppl are unable to join the dots to distinguish between cause and effect.
Have you been sipping the Jim Beam too?
An illiterate comment, as Bin Laden had declared war on the US in 1998, and no.3 on the crimes he listed was defending East Timor against Indonesia. And most of the carnage is muslim vs muslim in iraq and afghanistan.
Exactly. Most of the problems in the Middle East the West really only gets involved because those surrounding countries won’t or can’t. The West usually only goes in as a last resort, with the support of the Arab League. Not in the case of George W. Bush granted.
It is true though most fighting in these countries are against different Muslim sects.
Also the number of Muslims Bin Laden himself kills via his suicide bombers.
Absolutely … although “al-Qaeda” has carried out many horrific attacks on non-Muslims and celebrated these – there has equally been significant bloodshed perpetrated in the name of al-Qaeda against Muslims.
Thanks Paulo, but advertising the EDL LGBT division really does nothing for your cause. A cursory glance at your page suggest to me that the EDL is a one issue organisation. As a politically active gay man, I am interested in confronting homophobia wherever it may exist and supporting LGBT groups who are trying to confront homophobia in their own communities. This includes gay Muslim groups. It is utterly erroneous to suggest that all (or even most) homophobia emerges from Islam. It does not. Nobody has a monopoly on homophobia. It comes from every section of society; it is institutionalised and operates by means of the same mechanism as any other kind of prejudice.
No one is suggesting that all homophobia comes from islam – other than you. Islam however is responsible for homophobia all over the islamic world – if you cannot see that then you are blind, or stupid.
….similar to the christian world then, eh?
Yes, very similar. But the christian world is not as bad as the islamic world at the moment. The facts are in the laws of the world. The most homophobic nations are islamic.
…so now you think the USA is an Islamic nation. Probably the most homophobic nation on the planet and very definitely Christian.
Paddy gets all his weed and cock from the Asian community. So let the poor junkie rant while he still can.
…..unlike you I neither drink alcohol or smoke weed and i am on no mmedication of any kindnor have i ever been in my 60 years.
As for Asian community there are a maximum of 10 Asians living within 10 miles radious of where i live. Next…..
Muslim people are sometimes harassed and abused for being who they are. Muslim people also sometimes do things that are wrong regardless of who they are.
LGBT people are sometimes harassed and abused for being who they are. LGBT people also sometimes do things that are wrong regardless of who they are.
This is not being racist, islamaphobic or homophobic. Its the truth.
People do horrible things to other people because of their beliefs or opinions or for any number of awful pathetic reasons.
Saying an islamic man did this isnt an attack on islam. Saying an LGBT person did something wrong isnt an attack on the LGBT community.
By stateing a fact about one person within a community we are not attacking that whole community.
The fact that you keep calling people racists and islamaphobes is rediculous. Noone is damning a whole community of people and making rash generalisations.
Surprising how many people do not have the ability to rationalise and reason like you have …
Paddy, if you could tell me where in America that the government executes LGBT? Or if you could tell me where in America the government imprisons LGBT, or where in America the government tortures LGBT I would be grateful.
In my opinion the most homophobic nations are iran – where we are hung, or saudi arabia, where gay men face beheading, imprisonment and torture at best.
You obviously do not know very much about gay rights, otherwise you wouldn’t have made such a ridiculous statement, so a good place for a beginner to start is wikipedia……….
…ah, Wikipedia that respected portal of learning and accuracy. Figures you would quote Wikipedia……..How fitting and predictible of you.
Paddy, did you find those American states that execute, imprison or torture LGBT yet? And if you know of a clearer map of worldwide LGBT rights on the web, that would be great.
The argument against Tim_C that you make is very easily responded by using your own words.
“No one is suggesting that all homophobia comes from islam”
Eddy also said
“Islam however is responsible for homophobia all over the islamic world”
The fact Tim_C said not all homophobia comes from Islam, suggests he accepts some of it does, which suggests that he is not the (to use your words) blind, or stupid person you think he is.
If anyone is blinkered in how they perceive this – then its you Eddy.
Im confused here so perhap you call all help. I watched the docu last night about my brother the muslim. They these people treated other epople were terrible. So I felt they do not belong in our society of embracing diversity. So I suppose that makes me a racsist. But then if I defended these people, that condem homosexuality so much with so much hate would that make me homophobic? I am so confused. Can any one explain this to me. Gen question, not trying to be a smart arse. thanks
It doesn’t make you racist saying that muslims do not belong in our society because islam is not a race. So therefore you are not racist.
Muslims are homophobic. It is required by their belief system.
…again, simililar to the Christians as is required by their belief system……
It may not make you racist unless you use Islam as a cover for racism…eh?
You a Christian, Eddy? if so you dont belong here either then by your own definition. Moronic idiot.
No I’m not a christian. Why are you? And no I’m not racist. Why are you?
….”Why are you? And no I’m not racist. Why are you?…i didn’t say i was! ….. you know i am not!….. which is more than we can say for you.
What is more than ‘we’ can say for you? (and who are we)
Disrespecting the basis of a faith does not make you racist … Any beliefs should they be political, religious or otherwise should be open to scrutiny and challenge.
The moment we start saying someone “doesnt belong here” because of something they believe, whatever faith or politics that is, I do think we get into potentially dangerous water. I agree religion, of all types, can be used to bring hatred to LGBT people and others. Do we ban all religions – because that in itself brings us into conflict with the openness and tolerance that are part of the backbone of UK history
I don’t think you are racist sonotommm (from what you have said). I think homophobic views are totally wrong and need challenge and removing from society.
Ooooh I’ve ‘ad ‘im!
Oh I see the racists are back out in force again on PinkNews.
Nobody has ever said the stickers were definitely an EDL provocation, but only that it was possible. Now the police are looking for someone who in all probability is not an EDL supporter.
The question has never been whether the people who put up the stickers were Muslim or not. The question is whether we should vilify and attack the entire Muslim community even if they were. To which the answer is no. And that’s why LGBT people should absolutely reject the EDL and all they stand for.
Oh absolutely, Andy.
Indeed you did say it might possibly have been the EDL.
And of course it might possibly have been the BNP, or the Christian Institute, or some renegade Tory party members, or pretty much anybody else who was out there wanting to stir up trouble “in the community”.
But I don’t recall you or any of your fellow useful idiots saying that it might actually BE a follower of Islam putting them up, until now that is…. I mean, that idea was RIGHT out, wasn’t it?
The question is whether we should vilify and attack the entire Muslim community even if they were.”
No it wasn’t.
And that blatant lie is the usual defence you lot put forward, isn’t it?
People rightly criticise the actions of a few religious nutters, and at once you jump up and down screaming that we are attacking ALL members of that community, and are thus racists (even though islam is NOT a race, but a religion).
Unless you’re a member of the EDL, I’m not quite sure why you feel that you’re being accused of anything! I am firmly in favour of criticising homophobia and homophobes. I’m not in favour of criticising all Muslims. So unless you’re criticising all Muslims (which, incidentally, can be concealed racism unless it is directed at Islamic ideas rather than the members of a religious community), we don’t disagree.
“Unless you’re a member of the EDL, I’m not quite sure why you feel that you’re being accused of anything!”
How typical. Again, as soon as someone criticises your views and the way you try and stifle debate, you automatically insinuate they are members of the far right and/or the EDL.
Once again you are wrong. I am a liberal, and a secular atheist. I criticise ANY religion that seeks to discriminate against the LGBT community. And I mean ANY religion, as unlike you, I make no excuses for islam.
I do not care a damn what colour the followers of a religion are. I judge them only by their words and their actions.
My rule is simple. If any believer, of ANY religion, thinks that members of the LGBT community are sinners in the eyes of their god, then that’s fine with me as long as they keep it private. But if they seek to act on it, then I condemn them without fear or favour.
This clearly comes from someone too immature to follow debate. If you don’t like what you hears or just don’t agree you go throwing silly names and accusations, regardless.
There is nothing worse that an uneducated person, who rather than joint a lively, tries desperately to silence all those they disagree with.
No, it wasn’t.
I’m sure most of us even thought it was the most logical conclusion. But when we’re trying to proffer alternate hypotheses, do we really need to mention the one that 90% of the posters already believe anyway? Are you really that insecure that everything around here needs to be one gigantic circle-jerk? If that’s the sort of mentality we’ve got around here, I’ll be sure to include detailed disclaimers in all of my posts from now on.
Well said, Pumpkin Pie
There’s nothing racist about condemning islam – islam is not a race. muslims are not a race.
….unless you use Islam as a cover for racism against Asians as you do……
I have never mentioned asians. You are the one who keeps going on about asians. Not all muslims are asian. I have no problem with asians. I have a problem with homophobic belief systems, and islam is a homophobic belief system.
….talk about stating the obvious. You don’t mention Asians because you use islam as a cover to abuse Asians. And while all Muslims aren’t Asian better than 90% of Muslims in the UK are. All Abrahamic belief systems are homophobic but i don’t hear you or the EDL ranting about the other two…..
I don’t mention asians because I have no problem with asians. I condemn the homophobia in christianity just as much as the homophobia in islam. Christian countries however are not as bad as islamic countries – have you not bothered to research LGBT rights around the world yet? I also would condemn Judaism, but Israel, the only jewish state has legal recognition of LGBT rights. Unlike the islamic countries which surround it. I am not a member of the EDL, I don’t defend them, I don’t know enough about them.
Paddy you are a moron. Please shut up.
So Andy, you think everyone should reject the EDL but not reject ISLAM? Why would you defend one belief system, ISLAM, that institutionally has homophobic text at its core, that is responsible for the execution, torture and imprisonment of LGBT around the world, and call to reject the other, EDL, that does no harm to LGBT. Unless you were homophobic that is?
…and once again with feeling….
, CHRISTIANITY, that institutionally has homophobic text at its core, that wishes to corrupt British laws to suit their homophobia and to suppress and vilify homosexuals worldwide.
But, we’re not talking about christianity, it was islamic text on the poster, not christian, so why complain about christianity on an islamic story – unless you are pro islam? When christians are condemned on other threads, as they are, do you start going on about islam? No, you don’t.
…….But why single out one homophobic belief system unless you want to use that one faith system as a cover for Fascist racism as you do……
I speak about islam because the news story is about an islamic text that was on a homophobic poster. When there is a story about christian homophobia, I would talk about christianity. Nothing I have said is fascist or racist. I am not a fascist, and I am not a racist. Are you?
…if you have to ask at this stage, you’re even stupider than i thought possible
Believe me when there’s a story on Christian Homophobia, those who critise here make there feeling known and actually do make racist comments. It’s only when it’s about Muslim Homophobia they change their tune and become two faced double standard idiots.
We’re not talking about Chrisitianity, dimwit, we’re talking about Islam and the EDL.
…..conveniently. Using Islam as a cover for racism seems to be a favourite tactic of racist fascist Islamophobes.
Are you islamic paddy? Or do you just enjoy defending a homophobic belief system that is used throughout the world to execute, imprison and torture LGBT?
…..no, i am vehemently atheist but i am also vehemently anti fascist and anti racist. I am also very surprised that you haven’t twigged that by now.
…..and politically centrist Liberal.
If you are a liberal, why do you defend a belief system that is used throughout the world to execute, imprison and torture LGBT?
…….you are well aware by now that what i am talking about is fascism and racism disguised as Islamophobia. I care no more for Islamic homophobia or Islam in general than i do for any other Abrahamic homophobic belief system and you are being disingenious to suggest otherwise………..
Paddy, I didn’t accuse you of anything, or suggest anything, I asked you a question. You however are accusing anyone who condemns islamic homophobia (or phobia of anything that is not islamic) as being racist and a fascist. So I think it is you are being disingenuous.
Unavoidably. We are talking about homophobic stickers in Tower Hamlets. All the circumstancial evidence suggests they were put up by Muslims. I would rather the stickers had never gone up in the first place. You would evidently prefer we pretended they hadn’t.
….this is akin to debating with an amoeba….
Islam is a broad community that gives millions of people a grounding for their values and identity. Not all of those people will endorse every Islamic ideology (given the diversity of such ideologies, that is probably impossible). For most of them, Islam is not a system of beliefs but a community to which they belong.
By contrast, the EDL is a tiny vicious political organisation driven by hatred against certain people and groups. You can be a Muslim and not be homophobic, but you can’t be an EDL supporter and not be Islamophobic.
When will we hear lefties extolling the virtues of equally conservative Christianity in equally glowing terms?
Christian fundamentalism, especially in the form exhibited by the American religious right, is, after all, also not just a system of beliefs but a community that gives millions of people a grounding for their values and identity.
Christian fundamentalism is not Christianity. That’s kind of my point.
I recommend checking out “Reason, Faith and Revolution” by Terry Eagleton if you want to see some praise of Christianity from an atheist lefty.
…yet you seem to consider Muslim Fundamentalism as Islam. Kinda shows you for what you are i say…. a racist using a whole faith system as a cover for your bald racism.
oops ..the last comment was for Eddy…
Eddy, you need to take a look at how muslims treat gay men in the islamic world before you continue to accuse me of being a fascist or racist. It’s quite pathetic accusing someone of something they are not without any facts. It proves you do not know what you are talking about and therefore resort to false accusations to try and prove your views. You’re like a school ground bully.
I don’t consider the governments of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Somalia, Pakistan, etc. etc. to be islamic fundamentalists. And yet in all those countries gay men are either imprisoned, tortured or executed. Do you consider nearly the entire muslim world to be fundamentalists?
Andy, islam is responsible for the torture, execution and imprisonment of LGBT in all parts of the world. If you wish, I can give you numerous recent examples of the barbaric way in which muslims treat LGBT based on their islamic beliefs. I can also give you the parts of the islamic text which inspire muslims to act like this.
Do those who follow the EDL treat LGBT in a similar way to those who follow ISLAM? I am not an EDL supporter, I don’t know enough about their belief system. So, please could you give me some examples of what EDL have done to LGBT?
There are homophobic Muslims. There are homophobic Muslim ideologies. But Islam is not some sort of vast homophobic monolithic bloc, and nor are UK Muslims.
If you want to learn more about EDL ideology, I suggest you read Mein Kampf. Or google a few news reports.
The EDL do not believe in mein kampf as far as I have just read, so don’t lie to paint a picture of something that isn’t true – that’s just stupid and desperate.
But if you want to learn more about islamic homophobia I suggest you read the islamic ‘holy’ books the koran or the hadith, I can point you to the homophobic text if you wish, just ask. Or more simply take a look at news reports or even a simple wikipedia search of LGBT rights in islamic countries.
I have done a news search of EDL homophobia and I can’t find any. Do you have some links?
Here are some links for islamic homophobia, they’re not specific, just the first three I came across from a very long list………
At last someone on here who talks sense
“You can be a Muslim and not a homophobe”
and you can be a Jew or a Christian and not a homophobe too
but some people on here seem to forget that
Re-read my post
Ok there are lots of people who talk sense on here … just quite a few who dont get the distinction above
Stu, perhaps someone can be a muslim and not a homophobe, but unfortunately that is not the way it is in the majority of the muslims world, that’s just in your dream world. And the majority of muslims would argue that those people are not muslim at all. All nations who are governed by islamic law either imprison, torture or execute gay men. This isn’t like a homophobic roman catholic pope (who is homophobic). It is not illegal to be gay in Italy, we have the right to exist there, however tenuous. The islamic governed world ranges from the imprisonment to execution for gay men. You may be able to sit back and defend islam, but that does not make any sense to me. It would be like a jewish man sitting back and saying you can be a n4zi and not anti semitic, which I am sure is possible, but foolish to believe. When the islamic world stops its institutional homophobic actions, I will stop condemning islam for its homophobia. Until then, I present only the facts, not a dream world.
I appreciate that many in the “Muslim world” are homophobic.
I am fully aware that the majority of countries where Islam is the main religion that homosexuality is illegal and punishable by severe penalty (including death in a number of countries).
I don’t have a faith, but if I did I suspect I wouldnt want to be judged whether I was a Muslim, Christian or anything else by anyone other than God – so I don’t accept the argument that non-homophobic Muslims are not Muslim due to their tolerance.
Show me where I have defended Islam. There is no where I have supported Islam. I have merely had an open mind to the possibility the stickers are not Islam led and that there are some tolerant Muslims. That is just being sensible and looking at the bigger picture.
I don’t know the Islamic texts at all, but on the basis it is impossible to prove Gods existance – I do not see how the vehemant beliefs they hold can be justified in the moderate elements- and the extremist elements ….
… are beyond bigoted.
I fully agree there is institutional homophobia in Muslim communities. However, in the same way that there was institutional racism in the UK police service – this did not mean all UK police officers were racist. Likewise, there is institutional homophobia in Muslim communities but not every Muslim is homophobic.
Far from being a fantasy world – its a reasonable and balanced view.
That is not meant to dilute the heinous actions of those in the Muslim community who perpetrate them nor the bigoted teachings and blind faith that culminates in horrific actions should not be condemned and strong action taken.
“Nobody has ever said the stickers were definitely an EDL provocation, but only that it was possible”
It could ‘possibly’ have been Lord Lucan too. So why did you and others suggest on no previous evidence whatsover, and indeed with plenty of circumstancial evidence from Derby to suggest itrwas Muslims responsible, that this ‘might’ be by the EDL?
Equally why shouldnt they, Garamond
The issue was the possibility …
Jack Gilbert claimed he had ‘evidence’ that it was the EDL. So where is the evidence now, Stu?
I’m glad you’re not a cop anymore if you can’t understand the difference between syaing there is a possibility and saying you have evidence.
I am fully aware of the difference between possibilities, suspicion and evidence
I dont have any evidence – I accept it could be a possibility
Please do not include my willingness to have an open mind with someone elses contention that they have evidence. I have never claimed to have evidence.
I am entitled to my view as are you.
I believe evidence in a serious matter like this should be left to the police and courts
“I believe evidence in a serious matter like this should be left to the police and courts”
As Tatchell’s account shows, the police have already demonstrated that they will obstruct the course of justice for LGBT people when it suits them. shame on you for defending the scum.
There are some in the police who are “scum”, I can tell you all about that as a former police officer.
I hardly think Tatchell (as much as I admire much of his actions) is an entire authoirty of the propriety of the entire police. Stereotyping in this manner is dangerous and undermines liberal society where police can be held to account for their failures but where police investigate a crime and hand the decisions on it to an independent judiciary. You also undermine all the decent and honourable gay friendly officers out there who seek to support LGBT right.
Quite frankly, it is you who should be ashamed of yourself
Pakistanis are dreadful, backward people. But gays are worse. How wonderful if science can find a cure.
……. “How wonderful if science can find a cure”… for your racism and homophobia.And while they are at it quite possibly find a cure for the rampant fantasy fiction that is the vile Abrahamic religions.
Paddy – I’m sure that I’m not the only one on here who truly believes that you are border line mentally retarded…and apologies if using the word ‘retarded’ offends anyone but it perhaps the best word to describe Paddy and his didactic tirades and diatribes against many users on this site. Including personal attacks on many.
Your arguments are at best ambiguous and at worst deluded and are peppered with now, meaningless ‘racist’ and ‘fascist’ jibes.
Your hypocrisy, hilarious, you made some pointless comment earlier regarding standing up to fascists in the 1930′s – may I would remind you that Ireland wanted to side with Naz! Germany.
I suggest you either add some intelligent contributions to these discussions and get that massive chip off your shoulder or take some stronger medication.
……….YAWN…..another racist facist with nothing to say.
IS everyone who disagress with you a ‘racist fascist’… ?
But do you know something Paddy – YES, if not making excuses and apologies for Islamofacism makes me a fascist racist (quite why you belief Islam is a race is beyond me) then yes I’m clearly a fascist. But I’m a fascist that believes in liberty, freedom of speech, women’s equality and everything else that gives us our civil liberties, unlike the fascists you clearly support.
But my grandfather (as a British Jewish solider) saw at first hand what the ‘fascists’ did in WW2 to people like him and my family and perhaps if you knew anything about history and true reality of fascists, you would think twice about bounding the word about like some naive banal 10 year old in the playground.
….absolutely not. But i do however Always disagree with fascist racists as a principle and have no problem recognising same as they are so obvious………
But why attack Damian? He has said nothing that is either racist or fascist.
…. you know well that i don’t think Islam is a race nor have i ever said otherwise. What i did say tho, was that racists on this thread were using Islam as a cover for racism against the Asians of the UK and in particular the East end of London. And don’t dare to presume that you know any more of the history of Europe than i do. Fascism in Europe started out in exactly the same way as the fascism evident from the BNP and EDL. The only difference is that German Facism of the 1930s used the Jews, Gypsies, Gays, and the disabled as scapegoats, while the facism evident from the EDL and BNP apologists on this thread scapegoats Muslims and in particular Asians. The EDL hides its homophobia for now but the BNP is more upfront about it. Do you think for one minute that what you want for Muslims is any different from what the Naz!s wanted for your Grandfather. If you can’t see that you are an even bigger idiot than i first suspected.
…that last post was for Damien
So I support equal rights for those with faith, and those with none to believe (or not believe) who they choose – be they Muslim, Jew, Christian, Sikh, Buddhist, atheist or unsure …
I support equal rights for men and women
I support equal rights for heterosexual and LGBT
I support equal rights for all races
I support equal rights for all ages
I support equal rights for the disabled
Due to this I condemn some in all of those faiths who are determined to see that there are never equal rights. I condemn Muslims who are bigoted and Christians who are bigoted etc.
If I follow some of the argument here, that seems to suggest I am a fascist – if so I am pleased to be one – but someones understanding of what a fascist is seems very odd
….why are you being deliberately obtuse. you know well by now that what you list above is exactly my opinions too. You also know well from my earlier posting on the definition of facism is the accepted definition as listed in learned tomes such as the Oxford dictionary and Enc. Brittanica.. I would like you to point out exactly where i have said anything to the contrary and i will accept you are correct. I abhor religion in all its isidious forms but respect the right of anyone to hold to those religions as long as they do not attempt to impose their beliefs on me and keep those same beliefs private.
I am not trying to be obtuse
I am trying to rationalise your comments on this thread with those I have seen elsewhere and am struggling to.
I accept that the definition you have used for fascism is one of the accepted definitions. That I have no issue with.
I struggle to accept your apparent certainty that people on this thread are overtly using religious language to thinly veil racism. Its a possibility but unless either you have evidence of some sort or telepathy then I don’t see how you can substantiate this claim. Such an action requires mens rea in law – and the reality of this is that it is a thought process to make decisions. I don’t know what you are thinking any more than you do me.
I have to say as much as I agree with part of what I see Paddy saying – that the EDL are subversive and dangerous.
That said, I think his defence for Muslims is hollow particularly given his similar diatribes and tirades against Catholics and Christians elsewhere.
The personal attacks do not add anything to the weight of debate.
He certainly appears to have a chip on his shoulder – although he appears to have great passion for two things – LGBT rights (which I applaud and encourage) and vitriolic attacks on Christians
….I am not , once and for all, defending Muslims. What i am saying is that the racists on these threads are using Islam as a cover for bald racism,period. They know that to be blatantly racist on these threads would get tham banned.
When the opportunity arises for me to criticise Muslims as i have done the Christians who continually, even to the point of using the courts to villify GLBs and ride rough shod over GLB rights i will.
As for my “vitriolic” attacks on Christians , i give like with like as i also do when personally attacked.
….My reasoning for the belief that Islamophobia is being used as a cover for racism is that so far there is no credible evidence of Islamic homophobia in the UK other than what is contained in the Qur’an. Homophobia was rife in the East end of London 40 years ago when i had to run the gauntlet of white christian English thugs on my way to the docks to my ships. The number of times i had to run for my life after laeving pubs were numerous.
That the stickers/posters were put up by Muslims is debateable and so far i have seen no evidence to prove otherwise, The reasoning that all Muslims are to blame is the same reasoning that said if you were Irish during the “troubles” you were an IRA man and probably carrying a bomb.
I commented vitriocally against the sham GLB Pride/ EDL parade and was villified for it. I still await apology from those who villified me and said i was wrong. Was I?.
….as for my “vitriolic attacks” on the Rc church and Christianity in general….
Here in Ireland we had the Roman Catholic church ride rough shod over a very devout population for decades while the priests, bishops and nuns sexually and physically abused the young people and children myself included. i was sexually abused by the local curate while lying on my deathbed with acute appendicitis at 7 years old.
Even the protestants weren’t immune from abuse with childrens homes like Kincora boys home being used as a paedophiles paradise.
Then we had the Vile Iris Robinson, a so called born again Christian who ranted on radio and tv about homosexuality being intrinsically disordered and an abomination while she herself wallowed in adultry with a 19 year old boy.The same adultress espoused the benefits of the “gay cure” by a “nice man in my office”
Then across the water we have two gay men being refused entry to a bed and breakfast beacuse the prop. felt it was against their…
Thenthere was the guest house owners in the south of england who ended up in court and were haevily fined for refuseing two gay men a room.
The RC church closed down adoption centers rather than oboy the law wher a gay couple coul adopt or foster children.
The vile Johns’, an immigrant christian couple from Jamaica who went to court to try trumping British equality law. They now have a petition going where they are trying to bully the PM to allow christians be above British law as a matter of “Concience”.
When similar cases involving Islam or Judaeism arises i will be just as critical and rightly so. Finally i would like you to point out where i “attacked” Christianity other than rail against these injustices.
The comments you make seem to suggest that you are trying to defend Muslims. I accept that may not have been your intention.
I can see how it could be possible to use the label Muslim as a cover for covert racism. I don’t see evidence that this is actually what is happening – it may be, but I am not convinced either way. The problem is that to prove it we need to know the persons motivation and that is difficult to prove or disprove.
There are examples of Muslim homophobia:
There are also Christian examples of homophobia and Jewish and from those of no faith …
I fully see that just as being Irish did not make someone an IRA member or supporter neither does it make a Muslim homophobic … but some are ….
I agree that there are plenty of examples of homophobia and bigotry from within the Christian churches.
Nothing can excuse the abuse you received. Any decent person would condemn it without hesitation. The manner the Catholic church have handled individual and collective cases of abuse is wrong. It does not mean though that all Catholic leaders are abusers – but it does rightly cause one to question the integrity of an organisation and individuals who could fail to handle this situation and seek a cover up.
I will look for the comments where you attacked Christianity – I can’t quote without checking the entire thread.
I don’t doubt you try to be fair. It appears that you are lighter on Islam than you are on Christianity. I suspect that is unintentional, but it is how it appears
….I give up…..I am clearly wasting my time trying to debate on these threads.
…..As i don’t comment on stories on other journals nor indeed am i aware of them, I assumed you could point me to such stories on these pages.
From now on i will comment and will not reply to rebuttals or otherwise on these threads. One can’t debate with people who think Ireland is part of Britain, that Pakistan partitioned India or that your brains fall out if you have an open mind ffs.
You addressed certain comments at me. They need rebuttal. I do not believe that Ireland is part of Britain (part of Ireland is part of the UK but not Britain, albeit subject to dispute). I do not believe that Pakistan partitioned India. I think an open mind is imperative on many things. Not sure why you choose to address these issues at me. Equally, I do not think rebuttal needs to be based on PN material only.
@ Stu …
… The comment was a general comment on some of the other commentators on this thread and not aimed at you .I think i used your tag (wrongly I accept) as i wished to insert the comment of frustration at that point.
As you will know from having read the comments on the thread they were comments on three other commentators and i’m frankly surprised you didn’t see that ,as your comment seems to suggest you hadn’t read the comments where the stupid points were made. Re: the point on Ireland, i’m glad to report that a referendum on the tenuous connection with the UK is likely to be called in the next three years and is very likely to signal severance , finally, from Britains illegal 800 year occupation of part of our country. A move that will no doubt be welcomed in Britain in particular.
….above is, on review, badly written but i hope you will forgive and get my points.
I do accept that you inadvertently badly worded some of your comment. I do not hold that against you.
I am sure you understand why I needed to refute the comments that appeared to be directed to me. I had read the earlier comments and am aware where those earlier comments had been directed. Nonetheless those comments were directed at me … anyway, enough of that …
I can clearly see you are angry. I understand why, from comments you have made here and on other threads.
My approach is to take a more reflective approach …
I am concerned about Islamophobia. I am concerned about LGBT equallity. I am concerned that the EDL are subversive and damaging. I am concerned about all of this and that those representing those competing rights are campaigning against each other making it an even more complicated mess.
Won’t it just be wonderful, when we find the cure for nasty vindictive people like you.
As a heart surgeon I look forward to having you on my table.
One day I or others like me might be able to give you one.
However I would treat you with respect as a patient.
That is the type of person I am.
I really hope your hate burns out one day, as it would be so sad to be in your shroud despising yours and everyone else’s brief existence.
However I have no doubt that nasty sick people like you enjoy your hate.
“Pakistanis are dreadful, backward people. But gays are worse. How wonderful if science can find a cure”
- – - –
LU, you might be interested to hear that science is working on a cure for your racism, and homophobia.
I have reported this rag to the police as they seem to allow these hateful comments on this forum.
In effect the forum editorial team allows it, no doubt to allow debate or some cash income.
What bothers me is that the guff these piss poor reporters comment on is generally nothing more than already written by reuters reporters.
FFS, I read gay news in the bigoted Daily Mail a day before these lazy sods report it and that’s after it comes from elsewhere
You’re barmy, and the police will think you are as well. Since when has free speech on an internet forum been a crime?
And you’re so defensive about your warped sexuality, you’ve even turned on the medium that gives you a (high pitched) voice. I think Pink News provides a superb service.
You’re about as much a doctor as I am an airline pilot.
I’m curious to why your obsession with this LGBT News site LU?
Hidden desires by any chance? Closet homosexual by any chance?
I think Yes and Yes.
For your information there are plenty of cases of people being prosecuted for hate filled comments, threats, and offensive material on internet forums (some reported on here)
Freedom of speech is wonderful – but by claiming the right you should exercise responsibility – if not you run the risk of being prosecuted
So not only are you hate filled with your homophobic and vile tirades against LGBT people you are also racist …
Didn’t you learn anything from your great maker (who doesnt exist) – you vile person – all (allegedly) are created equal – all (allegedly) are judged only by one …
However, this clearly doesnt apply to you – you are able to judge and see others as inferior … and seek to abuse, harass and speak untruths about
The thing is the whole basis on which you believe this is as true as a leprachorn being in my garden … so your vile hatred is really just that, a passion of hatred that is consuming you and damaging you mainly … and causing the rest of us to laugh at you
there is no cure for sexuality you bigoted idiot nor is there one needed
LU, you wouldn’t know science if it got up your posterior and kicked off a salsa class.
Here’s wishing for a cure for humanity form your kind, eh?
It’s funny that no matter how many times idiot homphobes like you change your name we still know it’s you.
Relatives are bound to recognise him and, hopefully, talk to him and tell him to give it a rest.
His dad probably preaches at East London Mosque.
his relatives are probably more likely to encourage his hate campaign in the name of allah.
I have to say some families may tell him to stop. Although some out of fear for his welfare – that he may get caught
If I lived in London, I would go around with anti-”anti-gay” stickers and shove them next to the anti-gay stickers.
Good idea…. i would take it one better and carry some Anti Facist Racist stickers and stick them on top of the Anti gay stickers.Now theres a plan!!
Isn’t that a Scottish flag hoodie? He’s obviously a Scot!
@ Paddy… pleae please please, when someone challenges you, you needn’t be so on offensive, e.g. ‘don’t you dare to assume you know more about…’ and so please, please, please don’t tell me ‘what i want for the Muslims’… you have no idea on my complex opinions on the state of play of this nation.
But I do think your post in reply to mine really shows you have a very simplistic view of both the challenges and realities of fundamentalist Islam in 21st Century Europe and being able to differentiate, due criticism and scapegoating. I don’t think anyone on here is scapegoating ‘Asians’, as you call them – I think you might be being a bit racist here yourself Paddy, as not all Asians are Muslims and visa versa – most people on here are merely saying that Islamofascism is dangerous and should be challenged and not appeased.
Lets stop all facism including Islamofascism
….I assume you are addressing me when you mis tag me as Paddy…..My tag is paddyswurds.
Dont you mean defensive rather than “offensive” as there is nothing “offensive” in the line
“don’t you dare to assume you know more about…”When i say “what you want for Muslims” is nothing more than that. Only you know what you want for muslims but your comments are pretty clear to me what your opinions are in regard to the state of play of the UK.’ Your attempt to label me as racist is simplistic in the least as any simpleton knows that the majority of middle eastern Asians are in fact Muslim , especially those you rail against in the E.end of London.
Putting stickers up, hardly a crime, and he is allowed to his freedom of speech.
Gay people need get a thick skin and stop being so childish.
Freedom of speech applies both ways ,so i’m sure you agree with edl making their point? and you will be thick enough to handle it, like the danish cartoon fiasco.
With freedoms come responsibilities …
Inciting hatred on grounds of race, disability, religion or orientation is a crime …
So do the muppets that waste their time putting this nonsense up need to stop being so childish – read a book, go to school, learn to paint, help elderly people – instead of following the remedial doctrines of a paedophile “prophet”.
also – how about respecting people or is it only your idiotic bigoted views that need to be accepted Azi?
It would appear that Azi’s bigoted views are right – and the only ones that matter in his view …
in east london area probably…
Just for clarification I dont believe Azis views are right -….
Islam is a menace and all muslims should be viewed with suspicion.
I can’t believe that this backwards looking march of filth is being imported into the UK unchallenged and unchecked. No sane woman or gay person should support or defend this anti-democratic death cult.
Let’s band together and kick Islam/muslims out of the UK.
agreed . must admit i hate all major religions and their facilitation of child abuse, but islam is particularly evil.
What a cnut. Afghanistan is on fire due to some idiot burning a koran how insecure are these people
There are cases going through the courts in the UK of people who have been charged with burning the Koran.
I don’t think that people should burn the Koran. People should use it as arsewipe and save the planet.
been there with the bible,prefer recycled roll though.
Those that chose to stir up hatred by burning the Koran should immediately face trial in Afghanistan but only on a deal that Afghani’s stop murdering innocent people.
No if people want to burn the koran thats their business. Afghanis need to grow up and stop acting like spoiled brats
Yeah true but this religion on religion thing really turns my stomach. If they want to do it they should do it behind closed doors and stop flaunting it in public!
Yeah I must really annoy you to see the LGBT community with minds of our own. Most not following religious texts to get through live. Enjoting live to the full.
So what’s the harm in drawing a picture of the prophet with a bomb on his head then? Hundreds of people have died due to that incident. Personally I think it was a storm in a teacup, but it demonstrates how inflammatory freedom of speech can be in the wrong hands.
Yeah put posters with something like that up in Tower Hamlets and I bet Rainbow Hamlets and Out East will be rushing to get some kind of March out there. So long as it not “them Gay’s” upsetting the community thats fine.
Sir Ahmed Salman Rushdie was condemned to death for writing a book, hardly a crime, and he is allowed to his freedom of speech. Except that he wasn’t was he?
Muslims need get a thick skin and stop being so childish and running around shreeking and wailing like five year olds at every imagined slight at their belief system.
How does that read to you Azi or are you thinking I should be murdered for writing that down?
fatwa coming probably
I don’t know why but I feel sorry for them. They must be so unfulfilled and sad in life to be so hate filled.
Usually I have no mercy or compassion for people like this Uganda for example. But when happening here in an open society I guess I feel I dunno that it could not be this way.
If the west stayed out of the Middle East and let them get on with their own lives there would be no need for all this Hatred. The only reason the US and the British are in the middle East atall is so the Americans can steal their oil to keep those back home driving around in 12 mile to the gallon Hummers. The same applies to Libya. Strange how there is no interest in Yemen , Bahrain, the Ivory Coast or any of the other war torn parts of the world where there is no oil. Why have they not invaded Zimbabwe for instance where millions are starving under the rule of a dictatoras bad as any Ghadaffi.
As for the so called spread of terrorism, strange how countries as diverse as Canada, Mexico, New Zealand Brazil and similar aren’t worried about terrorism and aren’t invading the middle East. The only interest in Afganistan is to secure it so an oil pipeline can be run through it from Kazikstan to the Gulf of Oman for the Americans. Absolutely nothing to do with securing human rights.
So it’s ok to spread homophobic stickers, attack gay bars and beat up gay men in the East End because the US is militarily involved in the Middle East.
I have some sympathy with your views on the oil motivation debate.
However, some of your facts are inaccurate.
Canadian military is deployed in Afghanistan and Lt Gen Charles Bouchard of Canada is in charge of the NATO mission to Libya with other Canadian resources involved.
New Zealand has also deployed its military in Afghanistan.
Don’t think Brazil or Mexico have such deployments.
There have been episodes of terrorism in all of these countries but none that I can recall that is of an Al-Qaeda or similar type.
“If the west stayed out of the Middle East and let them get on with their own lives there would be no need for all this Hatred.”
There isn’t any ‘need’ for this hatred and it exists irrespective of what the west does. and who are ‘they’? What rights are gay people or religious minorities in the Middle East allowed to ‘get on with their own lives’?
More witless apologism from paddyswurds. Your solidarity with LGBT people in other countries is touching.
If the West stayed out the Middle East the muslim belief system would still be the muslim belief system. It’s adherents would still be rigid conformist brain-washed individuals with no concept of free thinking or freedom of expression. They would still think it acceptable to murder dissidents or any kind non-conformists. The problem is deeper than OIl is to be found. The problem is a religion that rules nations and intends to subjugate other nations by any means it can find, including murder.
But it would be their business in their own country. And if we don’t like it stop letting these people into the UK as cheap labour. Plenty on the dole without them.
What planet are you on? Your reasoning if it can be called that has more soft centres than a box of marshmallows. They kill gay people for no reason other than they don’t conform to the muslim belief system. They murder people who don’t conform. It has nothing to do with cheap labour. The don’t like the fact that when in countries other than those ruled by muslims they have to obey the laws of the country, Look at what they did over the Rushdie affair etc etc. Get a grip and deal with the facts. When they can’t have a muslim state grafted on to the national politics, they start local and work outwards. It is about freedom under the law. Not no freedom under their religious laws, but freedom under a non-muslim political state.
so its ok to invade other peeps countries so long as we pretend to care about their human rights….YEA RIGHT …NOW PULL THE OTHER ONE ITS GOT BELLS ON.
If you dont want to share the UK with people of other faiths then keep them out. Don’t expect them to change cause they wont, they will work to change you and believe me you wont like that.
Paddy, “stop letting these people into the UK” – that sounds like a line from a BNP manifesto.
if your gonna quote, quote the complete quote no the bit that suits your agenda……typical!!
“stop letting these people into the UK as cheap labour. Plenty on the dole without them.”
yep, still sounds like a line from a BNP manifesto.
“But it would be their business in their own country.”
By the same reasoning, if the general British public decide to persecute LGBT people, Muslims, black people etc, then that is ‘their business’?
Nice logic, you apologist.
He looks like a fricking Muslim. The whole city of London should have a sticker that says “Muslim Free Zone” or “Muslim Terrorists Free Zone”.
Much rather it had a poster saying racist free zone … sadly, that will never be the case …