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Transgender people sue New York City over surgery requirement

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  1. Connor Wallace 23 Mar 2011, 3:37pm

    well…..until you’ve had the operation, you’re not really the other sex are you? I know it must be difficult for trans people, but until you’ve completed the change…you’re not really changed, i geuss?

    1. That depends on whether you think sex is all about genitals, and also on whether you think gender = sex.

    2. Well I have breasts, curves and pretty much look like any other women and I haven’t had it done. My sexual responses are also more like a womens then a mans too. Still think all that is more important to my gender than a small piece of flesh between me legs?

    3. another pointless and tiresome discussion about a transgendered persons right to even exist.
      Connor, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, or about the different definitions of sex and the general ensuing confusion. So are you saying i’m not really a woman because i have XX chromosomes, yet I have a F on my birth certificate, and always felt like a woman. Or I could have XXY, or XXXY, etc. Or completely normal (apparently) yet feel in the wrong body since i was 3yrs because of a biological chemical wash of estrogen during fetal development. the fact is most of us are ok, we are born one way or the other, and for that we should be very grateful indeed. But guess what real-life isn’t black and white. I would have though that would be obvious on a Gay web site…. think about it,..

      PS why doesn’t my avatar thingy ever work.

  2. Mr Berkley is a hottie!!

  3. As a trans man who has no intention of lower surgery in the near future, I am in full support of this case. I believe that once I have had chest surgery and been on hormones for many years (something I will do for the rest of my life to add) that requesting to change my birth certificate should be honoured.

    I may not have a penis and may never have a average male penis but I will always be a man and any identification should reflect that.

    So I think that these three people should be able to have this documentation changed.

  4. Helen Wilson 23 Mar 2011, 5:24pm

    The surgical outcomes of lower surgery for many trans men is not desirable and can sometimes cause more problems than it solves. Until method and technique improve significantly you cant blame or punish trans men for waiting for a major improvement.

    For trans women as with trans men, they may have underlying health conditions that prevent surgery taking place, punishing people for being ill is unacceptable.

    Then we have the major problem in the states. Some people are too poor to afford to pay for surgery. A trans woman in the US is likely to fork out upto $45,000 for treatment and a trans man $100,000+. Many simply will never be able to pay for full treatment so they make compromises. It is very common in the US for trans women to choose bilateral orchiectomy (castration) instead of vaginoplasty so they only need to pay 2-3 thousand dollars instead of a figure around eight times that amount. And as karl has said above many trans men will just have a mastectomy due to cost.

    1. Helen Wilson 23 Mar 2011, 5:29pm

      Should a person be refused a gender simply because they are poor?

      Employment discrimination is rife for transgender people so economically they are probably going to take a huge hit when they transition. Lots of trans people are drawn into the black economy and prostitution in America.

      1. Helen Wilson 23 Mar 2011, 5:55pm

        The issues facing transgender Americans are clear cut as they are in the UK.

        People deserve to have gender recognised when the above issues may restrict the surgical options open to them.

  5. It’s a tricky one this. Although i fully sympathise with those that haven’t had, or may not wish to have full surgery, there has to be a ‘cut-off’ point here, if you excuse the pun.

    One would assume that after the op, it is essentially irreversible and that person has made the transition. However, I see no reason why this has to be the official legal recognition of gender change.

    As long as that person has shown a commitment, and maybe have to apply so many years in advance, that an interview could be held and a decision made.

    1. eurgg!!!

      there’s so many things wrong with this comment.

      1 “the op” is a myth, there isn;t “an” op that makes somebody male or female, transition is a proccess that takes many years and takes every person who embarks on it to a diferent place. Transition isn’t a certain operation it’s alot more than that and each person needs to seek the specific treatment or social changes that will make them feel comfortable and happy.

      2. A trans person under going medical treatment will have been doing so many years before they chose to undergo any kind of genital reconstruction, if they chose to at all. so implying that htey should go through an interview proccess is rediculous because each medically transitioning person will have seen a number of specialists that will have assesed their so called “commitment” to transition.

      1. 3. “the op” isn’t the only irreversable step in a persons transition, for example, most of the changes trans men experience through hormone replacement are completely irreversible, even if the person stops taking testosterone.
        Also social transition is irreversible, at least to the point of even if one detransitions their life won’t be the same and having lived as the opposite gender will have an irreversible effect on them and those around them.
        Other treatments such as chest reconstruction for trans men, breast implants for women, laser hair removal, are also irreversible. so this apparent “cut off point” you spoke of is actually a load of twallop.

        Please research the treatments and legalities of transition before making sweeping statements.

        I’m not dissing you etc, i just think that some will read your comment and agree with it when it’s actually based in misguided opinion rather than fact.

        Regards, TC

  6. Connor – wrong! Sorry but gender = sex. People aren’t genitals on legs, they should be respected for the person they are.

    1. *doesn’t = sex I mean!

    2. Connor Wallace 24 Mar 2011, 2:35pm

      If they want to be treated as the gender they feel they are, i don’t see why they don’t try to change to become it.

      1. If you don’t understand this issues at hand, what’s stopping you from making an attempt to educate yourself about the realities that trans people face? It’d be a lot more productive than hanging out in the comments displaying your ignorance for all to see.

        1. * applauds*

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