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London HIV groups say funding cuts will lead to more infections

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  1. No fcuking without rubbers will lead to more infections

    1. For once, I actually agree with you.

    2. That’s just a false premise.

      Its like saying that as long as a plane has an auto-pilot it will never crash…

      We should be talking about behavior (which most gay sex liberals DO NOT want to talk about).

      1. Pepe. Gay charities and health organisations must have lots of people like you who only care about building up reserves to pay managers, committies, meetings and initiatives. Talking about behaviour is vague. Reality is condoms will reduce infections the simple solution is the right one.

  2. theotherone 23 Mar 2011, 1:38pm

    Oh p off James.

    Nice decision by the PCTs then.

    We know where their priorities lie.

    1. and you are?

  3. How sad to hear this kind of news on the day that we lost Liz Taylor, who worked so hard for this cause. She would be so disappointed.

  4. Jock S. Trap 23 Mar 2011, 2:26pm

    This is so wrong. Whatever government we have seems to go on the health problem not the prevention. In too many case the cost of prevention is far less than that of the long term diagnoses. Unless they change that outlook we can expect things to get worse not better.

    With the current 10 year results I think shows the need for this work to continue and increase not decrease.

    I do have to add though there is clearly some part of the current prevention system that has failed and government should be helping fund what better can be done other than education in schools for all pupils, no opt out, no religion exception.

    Also how much of the problem with HIV is those that know they have it and those who don’t and refuse to get teated?

    1. Jock S. Trap 23 Mar 2011, 2:28pm

      Sorry, refuse to get treated not teated… whole different subject.

      1. Perhaps the money would be better channelled into a new approach. Education is fine, GMFA, THT and others cover a lot of this (but will be hit).

        Shock tactics and being told in an aloof manner that barebacking is wrong no longer cuts it. We need new approaches – Jock is right – the currentn prevention system has failed to some extent. I personally believe it’s outdated and becoming fast ineffectual.

        1. New approaches aren’t need to convince people that it’s a bad idea to jump of tall buildings. Anyone who is now unaware of the dangers of bare backing probably needs a full time carer.

          I remember when this started thinking “there but for the grace of god go I” (although I just had the very occasional fling) But it was a new and mysterious disease then. That isn’t the case now. Makes me mad-I hate to see the bigots gloating.

          1. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 8:34am

            Well the way is it at the moment clearly ain’t working Ray. Something has to change. The message has got to be worked on. It make take different forms but it Has to get people to see the dangers.

      2. This is not about money, you seem to imply that without oppressive government every gay person will get infected…

        Just to let you know not every gay guy is a sex addict and actually live responsible, monogamous, loving lifestyles.

        1. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 8:32am

          Wow, way to make up your own crap as you go along pepa.

  5. Actually, from a practical level James is right.

    However, I have a big issue with regards to these figures. It could be that more people have come forward for tests because of growing awareness and have been HIV+ for years. This type of scaremongering is no longer effective – people are becoming resilient to shock tactics.

    Also, if the cases have nearly doubled over the past ten years (with funding) then I doubt the cut in funding will have much of an impact. Perhaps on the services and education offered, but not on the amount of new cases.

    The vast majority of us know that having sex without a condom puts us at much greater risk of HIV and STI’s then any other act. It’s a question of risk, educated risk – people risk it and therein lies the increase in new diagnosis.

    1. Mendirin

      Cheers I also think that bareback porn has fetishised unprotected sex. its the most popular form of porn apparantly

      1. Jock S. Trap 23 Mar 2011, 4:55pm

        Problem is people who will have bareback sex will have already made that choice. It’s not something you sell it is a choice.

        No film or magazine will really contribute to that.

        1. Yes, it’s not rocket science is it. The trouble is everyone in the LGBT community suffers. not just the bareback shaggers. It’s just handing ammunition to the Phelps and Greens of this world. No excuse now for some one not knowing about HIV, it’s been around for a while.

          1. When i came out sex without a condom would have got you ostracised no question.   It was akin  murder.   Then the porn came with marketed with phrases like condom fatigue and rebellion now its the norm with gaydar giving the option of safe sex its crazy.   remember porn is not made by saints who love us. It’s made by probally some of the worst people you could meet. They don’t care if you die as long as  youve spent your money.  Jock P bareback porn has been around for about 12 years dont be naive porn does influence behaviour the part of your brain thats aroused will remember and seek the same stimulus 

          2. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 8:38am

            Thats rubbish because people like that don’t need an excuse. If it wasn’t this it would be something else. The Phelps and Greens of this worlds only problem is hate and they don’t need ammunition for that. We really should stop stereotyping because you do no favours and in a way your no better.

            Most decent people know the facts we should stop caring what a few hateful Nutjobs think. They are not important.

          3. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 8:46am

            James!

            Bareback porn has only been around for 12 years… seriously your having a laugh ain’t ya.

            Bareback porn has always been around long before safer sex films. Most Pornos in 70’s bareback wasn’t an issue it was the way they made those films. It’s nothing new.

            Safer sex films however are. Whilst I do think people need to get the message, your way panders to those religious homophobes who think and treat us as if we are incapable of thinking for ourselves. We are totally capable of thinking for ourselves.

            Just on another note. While the headline about the 70% rise in Gay and Bisexual diagnoses is strong the actually story shows that while any number of people being diagnoses it is not actually masses of people getting the illness.

            In all works of society you’ll always have risk takers, how many people smoke but that sadly will not be avoided.

            Stop treating All the community as if we know nothing when the majority don’t get affected by this and DO make the right choices.

          4. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 8:49am

            We just need to work harder to try and get the message out their for those that seem to miss this along the way.

            Whilst I do agree just 1 person with HIV is too many he numbers are actually small we just need to work on reversing that.

            But judging anyone Doesn’t help anyone.

          5. Actually Jock sex without condoms was not a fetish in the 70’s. Now men are spewing semen out their asses its totally different.

            And while I’m pro choice HIV is an expensive illness to treat so we have a responsibility to other people who use the NHS.

            Just as fat people and smokers get greif expect gay people with HIV to feel some sort of backlash soon

          6. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 1:31pm

            James!

            But just like fat people or people that smoke, people with HIV contribute to the NHS Budget. No-one should get any stick. The minute we start to deny one section of society from their right to medical treatment is the day the NHS is finished.

    2. Jock S. Trap 23 Mar 2011, 4:53pm

      I have to admit that was my first impression Mendirin. I do agree this kind of scaring is pointless. It’s going on how to tackle the illness from nearly 30 years ago. Unfortunately to be affective I think not only do they need a new approach they need many that convey the same message. Stop treating people as a number treat them as a person with regards this education.

      The one thing I think we can be sure of with this kind of reporting is we know that Christian groups will jump on it as proves being ‘Gay’ is dangerous. They won’t of course mention that over the centuries have died as a result of religion that any human of HIV/AIDS.

  6. de Villiers 23 Mar 2011, 4:59pm

    What is of note is that with all the funding of the past ten years, there has been a rise of 70% in diagnoses.

    It raises issues as to how effective it has been for this to be funded in the past manner.

  7. without passing on judgement…it is alarming the number of “open reationships” on gay dating websites (very little dating)! this cannot be a good thing…
    we should promote equally both the safe sex message as wel as the importance of monogamous and faithful relationships amongst gay men!

  8. So HIV prevention groups in London say they are “disappointed” and “concerned” at 43 per cent cuts to their NHS PCT funding.

    I BET they’re concerned and disappointed! Their gravy train is grinding to a halt!

    They are highly ineffective and are responsible for the massive increase in HIV infections reported today.

    They have been colluding with the profit-driven sex-industries to lure gay men into risky sex in risky environments.

    1. “I BET they’re concerned and disappointed! Their gravy train is grinding to a halt!

      Agreed. Most of these HIV prevention groups are just scams to get more free money so that a few special people can sit on their asses pretending that they care about HIV prevention YET we are seeing an INCREASE in infection rates. They are obviously not doing their job, which is to educate gays about the risks of promiscuity and anonymous sex which is rampant in the gay scene.

  9. The problem with this is all the waffle from wet organisations – and a lot of wet, self-pitying people on here. Blame the government. Blame the cuts. Blame everyone except yourselves.

    Well, all know that NO RUBBER = RISK. It really is that simple. Gay men just don’t have the self-discipline. Only those taking part in the sex have any choice over whether condoms are worn. Clearly, gay men don’t care about their health enough, they prefer to shag around, risky sex and multiple partners – all without condoms. Until gay men decide for themselves that they don’t really want to contract HIV, then they will continue to in the numbers they are.

    The only ones to blame are those involved in the acts themselves. Let them get on with it – the NHS should start charging people with HIV because it’s completely preventable. But like lung cancer and obesity. The number of genuine cases would be so small, no-one would care if they were paid for by the state or not.

    1. Sister Mary Clarence 24 Mar 2011, 12:21am

      “Well, all know that NO RUBBER = RISK”

      I think a large part of the current problem is that such large numbers of people do very little about HIV, and often what they do know is off the mark.

      The increases in infection from the youngest sexually active age groups indicates how little education young people are receiving on the dangers of HIV, what is does to you, how if is caused and passed on.

      Similarly gay people from countries all around the globe are drawn to London, attracted by a liberal and cosmopolitan lifestyle. Often these people countries were HIV is a different threat level, and yet we make no effort to education migrants to the dangers they have.

      Maybe this is the wake up call the HIV sector needs and the upshot of it may be services more fit for purpose

      1. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 9:03am

        Alcohol and drug use doesn’t help either.

    2. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 9:02am

      Unfortunately it’s not that easy. There are a lot of guys who don’t like using condoms and won’t. Just like on the straight scene.

      1. Jock

        as soon as someone makes condoms the new fetish you’ll see the shift in attitude. And I also think some of these sex clubs with “non judgemental attitudes” should maybe be monitored on public health safety grounds

        1. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 1:34pm

          I’ve often though companies like Gucci, Nike and other brand names should put their logos on condoms/packets which is one of the ideas of changing tactcis I was thinking. It might go some way to help some with a fashion statement who depend of label brands.

        2. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 1:36pm

          As for sex clubs I’d hope we’ve moved on from the days Gay places were routinely raided. You may not like it but it is called Freedom.

    3. I was diagnosed five years ago. I was infected by a man with whom I had a five year relationship. I trusted him. Call me foolish, call me naive. I believed we were monogamous. I was. He wasn’t. Am I too blame? Believe me, I have beat myself up enough over this without you adding to it. We don’t all “shag around”, or have “multiple partners”. It only takes the one wrong sexual encounter. I understand your anger, I have enough of my own, But temper it with a degree of compassion.

      1. Roland

        Sorry to hear about that, I have a friend who had a similar experience and its not your fault some men are very persuasive and have self destructive personalities and don’t mind if they destroy other lives on their path.

        Those guys who reckon anyone with HIV is a slag are idiots ignore them

        1. Thanks James. I appreciate your comment. I know that, but even after 5 years it still hurts to be labelled as a “slag” to add to the stigma of having not only HIV but AIDS. I now do voluntary work in the sector. I don’t care how a person became infected. All I know is that they deserve help and support, not be labelled or denigrated.

          1. No problem I hope you stick around and share your opinion on some of the other stories.

            I would like to see what some of the other commentators have to say to you

      2. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 1:39pm

        Despite how I got HIV I have never been angry, everyone I know never seems to understand why but at the end of the day being angry doesn’t take the HIV away. The quicker you learn to accept it as part of life the better life becomes, the quicker your life isn’t ruled by HIV.

        1. Oh I absolutely agree. Once I had worked out that I really didn’t know who or what I was angry at (I know that the guy who infected me didn’t know he was HIV+ at the time) I found that anger if correctly channelled can be a major source of energy. Angry and regret in themselves achieve nothing, but used appropriately they can be a major power to the good.

          1. Jock S. Trap 27 Mar 2011, 8:11am

            Very true Roland.

            I have to say I had spent too much time round some people that had have HIV for years but so bitter with it, I mean so Very bitter and I think that contributed a lot to my own reaction after I myself was diagnosed, I just refuse to be like it. Telling everyone that mattered as soon as possible also helped coz once you achieved that goal there nothing holding you back.

            I did channel all my energy into helping others newly diagnosed some of whom did find it very difficult, so yeah definitely better to focus.

  10. Patrick Mc Crossan 23 Mar 2011, 6:04pm

    The Gay community are in very serious denial. We attend clubs and bars where bareback is promoted. Most dvd’s are not bareback. We have clubnights called filth etc. We have been given access to free condoms for years and still hiv increases. We are choosing unsafe sex and in some cases promoting it, and we will get a bad name again for the uncaring attoitude many of us have about this issue

  11. Have been on about three different forums today and the bigots are loving the reported increase in HIV infections in gay men, one such-“this is what happens when the makers instructions are ignored” etc etc etc…..

    I could understand the increase if it was 1980 and HIV was just being discovered. But it’s not is it? Sad really, for everyone.

    1. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 9:05am

      Trouble is those same ignorant bigots will also take that as them being immune.

  12. How rich! For years GMFA and THT have squandered millions on subliminally ENCOURAGING gay men to dispense with condoms via their so-called risk minimisation campaigns that advocate pulling out before coming, endorsing sex-on-premises with a thumbs-up emblem and even launching web sites that glamorise drug use and teach gay men in glorifying language the A/Z of degrading, pathogen-transmitting behaviours. How dare they now say that withdrawing the funding that would enable them to continue their business as usual approach – which has contributed to HIV infection rates among gay men DOUBLING in the last decade alone – is frankly absurd and preposterous. Guys, you had your chance and blew it badly while you worshipped at the altar of political correctness and refused to be truthful and honest in your confusing and mixed messages about HIV aimed at our community. You have blood on your hands as far as I am concerned, so go take your begging bowls to the nearest soup kitchen.

    1. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 9:09am

      Thats absolute rubbish.

      Unless these groups stand over the person while having sex to make sure they put a condom on… even they a few will still refuse.

      Your claim is, quite frankly, ridiculous. The only thing these groups can do it put the information out their. They cannot force people to listen, they cannot force people to act.

      Just as their are Straight clubs and saunas there are gay ones. Thats the beauti of a democratic, tolerant society.

      NewFlash:- People are responsible for their own actions. Nobody else is You are.

      1. Agree, Williams post was utter dribble. There is no point in addressing such stupidity, it was just a puerile rant about “political correctness” murders people….. he’s clearly brain damaged.

  13. Surely this is just plain common sense? If the trusts are looking to save money, then slicing the HIV prevention budget by 43 per cent seems like a good idea, since all of the many millions lavished on the THT and GMFA over the years has gone down the plughole of political correctness and had zero impact on gay men’s decisions to choose safe sex.

    In fact, if anything, their HIV campaigns have served more to incentivise unsafe sex as they have focused their efforts on risk minimisation (i.e. pulling out before coming) than on a universal “play safe – use condoms always” approach.

    These organisations have been bereft of ideas for years, and the sharp increase in infections is proportional only to the increasing ineffectiveness of their campaigns, and their efforts to promote sex-on-premises venues such as Play Pit, which provide a protective environment for positive men to indulge in unsafe sex with abandon, are directly proportional to the near doubling in HIV rates among gay men ov

  14. Helen Wilson 23 Mar 2011, 7:00pm

    with the recent change in approach that’s seen clinics automatically offering HIV tests, could this rise not just be a adjustment to the increase in the number of tests and not a actual rise in infection rate in the LGB as those too shy/embarrassed to ask are tested?

  15. …over the same period.

    It is time for an open and honest debate about where do we go from here. Really, the last thing we need right now is for more funds to be thrown at THT and GMFA to continue their PC campaign of not offending positive men in adverts that need to hit the seriousness of HIV infection home to those who are still negative…

  16. Is there also a possible increase because early detection and testing avalibility has increased??

    1. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 9:12am

      That is, I think, certainly a good possibility but sadly doesn’t take away the numbers. It is definitely a better step to have easy detection means.

  17. I blame gay rights for this. More freedom to have sex and a no responsibility for your actions. Sad indictment of society today. Gay rights has done enormous damage to us all.

    1. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 9:13am

      Equal Freedoms are for everyone, not just the LGBT community..

    2. You need to get your facts right first. In face “gay rights” as you put them have enabled people to live publicly in stable and legally protected relationships, and cowering in dark bars where in fact there was less responsibility for your sexual actions as they were utterly private and not supported by health organisations. But perhaps you lament those days of criminalisation and zero rights. The rest of us do no share such silly sentiments.

      Seriously, the stupidity level of some comments here is appalling.

      1. I completely agree Will. Some people are just incredibly naive.

  18. Actually, what is troubling me more than anything is the amount of judgement thrown around.

    Monogamy doesn’t equate to being HIV- just as being sexually promiscuous doesn’t equate to being HIV+. In my opinion that view does a lot more harm than good.

    Also, if a couple has an open relationship then statistically they’re more likely to use condoms and they have a greater awareness of the risks involved and also do not wish to pass anything onto their other half.

    It’s all very well to point the finger and argue ‘that’s why we’re hated by mainstream society’ but then there are many straight couples out there who are exactly the same. People do not need an exucse to hate someone else in this world.

    I’m gay, in a monogamous relationship but that does not give me the right to impose my moral judgement on anyone else. Some of you need to wake up a little.

  19. I don’t think not using a condom is unique to gay men, there’s an awful lot of un expected children about! Personally speaking, if I’m gonna sleep with a guy I’ve only just met, I use a condom. In my opinion the non usage of condoms is almost used as a form of control by the person not using them.

    1. Jock S. Trap 24 Mar 2011, 1:46pm

      It’s not I agree. It’s just we get the focus. People don’t want to see (and by people I mean outside the LGBT community) the amount of abortions and unwanted pregnancies this country has.

      As for the non-usage arguement as a form of control, gonna say no, well not entirely, because many people agree before hand not too knowing the risks.

  20. HIV and AIDS is biological warfare, to rid the world of people the Christians want to get rid of ever since the LGBT movement has been growing.

    1. Jock S. Trap 2 Apr 2011, 11:27am

      That conspiracy will do the round for a long, long time.

  21. Well, they WOULD say that, wouldn’t they? Tough, guys. You had nigh over two decades to stem the epidemic of HIV infections among gay men and you blew it spectacularly – and millions in taxpayers’ cash in the process. I wager it can be proved that your PC efforts have actually CONTRIBUTED to the rising trend in infections and so made your paymasters at Glaxo and Pfizer smile all the way to the bank. Disband these useless, indifferent organisations. HIV prevention needn’t cost the earth. Just a realistic, hard-hitting campaign that evokes the truth about living – and dying – with HIV today. That’s all! But we will never hear the truth about HIV in the wishy washy, half-baked PC efforts churned out by THT and GMFA.

    1. Jock S. Trap 2 Apr 2011, 11:28am

      Things would be far worse without these groups.

  22. “London HIV groups say funding cuts will lead to more infections”

    So, these namby-pamby PC zealots who refuse to be hard-hitting in their HIV prevention messages *will* resort to scaremongering when their funds are threatened but not to save lives. How twisted is that?

  23. If Elton really cares he will strongly advise the Coalition to withdraw prevention funds from the hopeless THT and GMFA and dispense them instead to the new HIV prevention organisation Status, which is finally putting out HIV campaigns that have got people talking again. Truthful, honest and hard-hitting in a way that nobody can seriously claim to stigmatise positive men – except those with a gigantic chip on their shoulder and forever wallow in playing the victim. The fact is, it is the lives of negative men we must consider here, regardless of how many of those with the virus may scream and wail that the truth hurts.

  24. Sad to be all alone in the world!

  25. Gay men are revered in some cultures as we dont compete for mates and are as seen peacemakers.
    Cultures that excludes gay men and lesbians(not you obviously) are typically violent and repressed.
    Look around the world for your proof. Do you know how much restraint it took for me to not call you a silly c un t

  26. Go out and get some friends then. You don’t have to be alone.

  27. Jock S. Trap 28 Mar 2011, 11:45am

    Is this an ad or something? Who the hell’s alone? Is it you Jerry?

  28. Jock S. Trap 2 Apr 2011, 11:28am

    Which world?

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