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Chariots on fire: East London gay sauna severely damaged in fire

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  1. Glad there was no injuries.

    1. Terry Stewart 21 Mar 2011, 12:32pm

      The fire at Chariots Sauna at the weekend was an electrical fault, in tne internet area. Must have been one hot site they were on. No injuries. Please let folks know and dont let others use it to stoke up hate.

      1. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 12:44pm

        No, you can do that all by yourself.

      2. Absolutely this should not be an excuse for hatred

      3. Glad to hear it was an electrical fault. Now can we have a campaign by gay people to prosecute those fascists who stickered London with homophobia?

        Or are you still pushing the racism of low expectations, that assumes muslims are incapable of respecting the human rights of others, and therefore should be exempt from the law?

        Is it true that you have been told by the Police that it was muslim homophobia, and you agreed to keep this information secret?

  2. Seeing as this was a gay venue I’m beginning to suspect arson. :-/

    Glad nobody was injured.

    1. Purely because it was a gay venue …?

      I prefer to wait for evidence myself before speculating

  3. David Wainwright 20 Mar 2011, 1:42pm

    How sad , was a nice place to hang out and chill in good company , i hope no one was hurt and that Chariots gets back soon , a lovely place .

    1. Personally I thought it was rather a dreary place. Mind you, I haven’t been there in a decade — maybe they actually got round to painting the breeze-block walls. If you want to see how nice a sauna can be, you should see Bablyon in Bangkok. Every other gay sauna I’ve ever been to used to make me feel depressed at the bad decor and design.

      1. If you want a nice sauna try the Deutsche Elche in Munich!

  4. Jock S. Trap 20 Mar 2011, 1:59pm

    Bit to early to speculate what caused this but glad no-one was hurt and hope they get back up and running soon.

    1. Totally agree far too early to speculate

  5. Edward Davey Louis 20 Mar 2011, 2:30pm

    Bet you it was Muslamic homophobes what did it.

    1. Hodge Podge 20 Mar 2011, 9:24pm

      I’ve just seen that video haha

  6. Sheesh, I hope this was an accident and not a premeditated attack.
    Glad no one got hurt.

  7. Poplar Poofta 20 Mar 2011, 2:42pm

    an interesting adjuct to the earlier stories is the number of muslim guys who use this popular sex club.

    1. absolutely, well said …

    2. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 11:56am

      *coughs*

      1. Got cold, musclelad23?

  8. Phoenix0879 20 Mar 2011, 2:47pm

    IF this is Arson, then well done to those who got East End Pride cancelled – many of us said the cancellation would be a green light to the haters and what do we get?

    If it’s an ‘accident’, the timing still smells funny to me.

    1. Limehouse guy 20 Mar 2011, 3:41pm

      That’s just the smell of man juice

    2. Yes you’re right its too close to be co-incidence. I think this could be the start of a campaign against us. I was parking outside the Tesco Metro on Commercial Road last night and just as I was pulling over the car behind me really sounded its horn at me. It was so thoughtless and frightening. I thought I was going to die. I couldn’t indicate because I was on the bloody phone. How many hands do these people thing we have. I’m sure the woman driving the car was an Islamisist, so I think they are all starting to target us now. I don’t know how she new I was gay but she must have. Its getting really bad….. although she could possibly been South American but I read the Daily Express so I know they’re all related.

      I think we need to trawl through all the other stories on here as well because I’m sure there will be tenuous links we can concoct to show the Muslimic threat against us all.

      1. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 6:11pm

        @jose…..well besides your racism you were also breaking the law. You shouldn’t be “on the bloody phone” and driving at the same time..It was you who was thoughtless and driving like an idiot. So the other driver was probably pissed of at your driving skills or lack of, not your sexuality. Sheesh some people really are idiots.

        1. I presume Jose was actually being ironic.

          1. paddyswurds has demonstrated time and again he is too thick to appreciate irony. I guess I’ll get an accusation of racism now. But trust me, not all us Irish are thick like Paddy.

          2. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 11:09pm

            @James….for the first time i my life i can say i’m ashamed to be Irish when you around …..Don’t you have to be somewhere where you can practice the facist salute….

          3. Paddyswurds 21 Mar 2011, 5:59am

            @AdrianT & James….plus i wouldn’t give up the cleaning job if i were him..The spelling and journalistic ability are such that it takes several very tedious readings of his post for one to realise he may be attempting to be Ironic. I think what happened was i got so bored by the time i got to the phone thing i gave up and posted the comment, in the event a bit too hastily.
            Not a huge jump to momentarily think he was being serious when one see’s the calibre of some of the posts on this site. What with all the airhead queens, self loathing homophobic “gays” far right facists, racists and general illiterates , hardly a hanging offence to think so. Believe me James, it is no insult to be thought of as thick by you. The tenor of your posts place you somewhere below that of the intelligence of an amoeba. My only concern about you is that you sometimes reveal you are Irish and indeed a human, something most Irish and humans would prefer you kept to yourself.

        2. what a dufus you are?????

        3. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 9:58pm

          I only realised it was ironic after i posted see my post below for another ironic take… I do understand irony james. Figures it would be you to be so hateful.It’s a wonder you arent at som egym somewhere peeping between the cracks in the door.

          1. I’m disabled. I haven’t been to a gym for the best part of a decade. But trust you to say something spiteful, Paddy.

          2. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 11:12pm

            @James…Stupid post…I was certain you were disabled, brain wise, but how do you suppose i would know you were physically disabled…….You really do give morons a bad name… Shouldn’t you be in bed by now…all the kiddies channels are off air by now..

          3. Stop digging yourself a further hole…
            I thought Jose’s post was hilarious.

          4. You need to get back on your medication Paddy or get another fix of crack if that’s what you’re on because your senseless, massive chip on should rantings, are just that. Senseless and vacuous.

    3. Errrr . . . there was a LOT more to the East End Gay Pride March event . . . also, the ‘asian’ who was caught with the flyer was actually gay and had been taking it OFF the posts near to where he actually lives . . .

      1. How do you know this, or is it another propagated myth from the Hackney Stalinist Appreciation Society?

        The police told OutEast and rainbow Hamlets not to reveal that the perpetrator was Asian and had received the stickers from someone in Islamic dress outside the East London Mosque. They have CCTV of it. They don’t want to reveal this because it might harm community relations.

        1. so basically , homophobic hate crime is tolerated from certain religious communities, as it is more important to be “culturally sensitive” to their cultural homophobia than for justice to be done. We really are going backwards.

        2. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 8:25am

          What upset the local Gay community, what does that matter so long as we don’t upset the local Muslims community!

          So many things wrong with this area.

          1. I think that what upset the LGBT communities does matter.

            I think that many LGBT people would not be concerned if those perpetrating the offensive and alarming activities are upset.

            However, I am sure many would not want to label the entire Muslim community which is the risk with some of the inflammatory remarks that are being made, here and elsewhere.

            I mean, I lived on the same housing estate that one of Raoul Moats accomplices lived on – that does not mean I am likely to be involved in conspiracy to murder police officers ….

          2. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 10:35am

            Stu

            Sense the tone!

            :)

      2. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 11:14pm

        @Adrian T…because the arresting police officers said so…..It certainly wasn’t headline news in the Daily Wail..

        1. So Tower Hamlets police come with Gaydar hard-wired do they? I suppose he knew this obvious muslim fundamentalist was gay because his beard was so nicely trimmed, his nightie was by Gaultier, and his trainers were Prada?

          You might be able get away with your lies if you weren’t thick and bigoted simultaneously.

          1. @James

            For clarity, to make sure I am not misinterpreting you … How do you think he is being bigoted?

          2. Stu, Paddy is a bigot because he chooses only to believe those things that shore up his existing prejudices. He wants to believe that a) muslims didn’t do the stickers (contrary to much evidence), b) that if they did it they were recognizably gay by the arresting police officer, c) he continues to maintain EDL is right-wing, when the Police investigation said that EDL “is not a far-right organisation”.

            He is a classic example of a bigot – obstinate adherence to a set of beliefs.

  9. probably some guys weren’t using proper lube, and everything went on fire

    1. Not a very clever or decent remark – but then I remember the awful stuff the ‘gay community’ said about the poor guys who were the victimes of the Farringdon cinema fire, so I shouldn’t be surprised at the postings of idiots …..

    2. It’s a joke in very poor taste. The article says there were 150 people in there, but it could hold up to 500 people. If this had been really nasty we could have been lamenting the deaths/disfigurement of hundreds of people.

  10. Galadriel1010 20 Mar 2011, 3:44pm

    Is it just me who thinks that bad puns are a bad sign in journalism? (Good sign in a date, though)

    1. No, I agree with you. The ‘chariots on fire’ is what has begun the jokey stupid comments. Put it this way – if the east london mosque had been burnt down – do you think an islamic news website would have made a jokey pun in the headline?

    2. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 8:30am

      I thought that Galadriel…

      What is this PinkNews or New of the Bloody World?

      1. It was definitely lower end tablod journalism headline

        and not one of the ones that raised even a wry smile …

  11. Richard Puller 20 Mar 2011, 3:45pm

    I suppose those gay leftists will immediately blame the EDL for this unfortunate event. Another black ops mission is it just like the disproved hate stickers? Or more likely an Islamic attack now they have been given the green light by those self haters at Imaan and rainbow hamlets. Tsk

    1. Actually the gay leftists believe in the rule of law, that people are innocent until proven guilty, and that we should wait for the full information before anyone is blamed.

    2. I don’t think we should jump to any conclusions. But what I would like to know is since those anti-gay stickers were seen from Shoreditch to Poplar, and from Stoke Newington to Twickenham, why is there no CCTV footage of the people putting them up. Surely Chariots has CCTV around their building — let’s see the footage.

      1. well just to add to your point , after i got attacked, the police went to look at some cctv from local business , was not working ,or perhaps those business owners erase it , they may have crimes recorded all the time ,but do not want hassle of involvement for fear of retribution. And also area i was in, has known protection racket gangs in operation ,so possible fear of retribution by assisting police. Then police went to get evidence from speed cameras, unfortunately broken ,and now councils have stopped operating most of them due to cuts. In the case of the stickers being posted , there should be definite evidence in such a built up area with lots of retail /business premises , it does seem suspicious.

    3. Perhaps some us us “gay lefties” remember the meaning of the pink triangle,

      Unlike some posters on here who, when forced by groups like the EDL and BNP to sew them on to their own uniforms will be whinging about why nobody did anything.

      1. I think you’ll find that pink triangles and rainbow flags have been seen at many EDL demos – like this demo outside the Israeli embassy:

        http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=132236756794102&aid=19688#!/photo.php?fbid=164272860257158&set=a.133777043306740.19688.132236756794102&theater

    4. Well the homophobic facists of tower hamlets got the green light to do what they want now as you said . We all know if a edl person had involvement in hate posters, like some would insidiously try to purport to the more gullible, then it would be front page news, so its obvious its an islamofacist and its been covered up, as we must be culturally sensitive to cultural homophobia now. Anyhow this is just the start , of “accidents” covered up there. . The gay/artsy scene is dying there anyhow, its moved up to dalston stokey way. I reserve the right to boycott an area where lgbt peeps are treated as 2nd class citizens .I’ll take my pink pound elsewhere like the more prudent are.

      1. Whilst I would wholeheartedly stand up for the rights of any person to have freedom of speech, the hate filled comments, ignorance and conspiracy theorists on here make my blood boil.

        WIth regards the posters, I am sure that whether they are EDL, Islamic related homophobes or some other hate filled individual, then they will have wanted to minimise the liklihood of being caught. Most of the sites that have been publicised where the posters have been put it would be extremely easy to put something up without it being noticed either by a witness or CCTV (whether it was working, of sufficent quality or not).

        I wholeheartedly support dealing with homophobia but it must be in all its forms – Moslems and right wing extremists alike – and other forms …

        The last time right wing extremists attacked the LGBT community in a dramatic way the perpetrator went out of his way not to be discovered at first … and the investigation of the police was effective … this one may be

        1. Pink News has reported “an asian” was arrested & released. Other websites around east London (lattelabour & Hackney citizen) have had 2 separate reports of “asians” putting up these stickers. London reputedly has more surveillance cameras than anywhere else in the world, yet people have been able to conduct a concerted campaign of hate across London without being caught or exposed. And we have someone on here saying the gay leadership have agreed to keep quiet about the proof the stickers came from East London Mosque.

          If you believe that, then you shouldn’t be surprised when the next terrorist bomb goes off, and the authorities say “we have no evidence who is responsible for this”.

          Gullible doesn’t begin to describe you…

          1. Firsty – Asian does not necessarily equal Muslim.

            Secondly, as I have posted later on I suspect what the police have asked for is calm to try and prevent this escalating with antagonism from the Muslim, LGBT and other sectors of the community

            As a former police officer, I dont believe I am gullable – just have experience of how investigations work.

            For the record the last terrorist attack on the LGBT community was from a fascist individual

        2. There are multiple independent witnesses from across east London. They even reported the posters to the police.

          And it all depends on your definition of “terrorism”. According the European Muslim Research Centre, any EDL demo is an act of terrorism. By that definition, every time muslims say “kill homos” it is an act of terrorism; the violent attacks on gay men by muslims in east London are acts of terrorism; the attack on the George & Dragon was an act of terrorism.

          Or is your definition of “terrorism” confined to bombs & arson?

          1. Absolutely, there are many different definitions of terrorism. I personally wouldn’t stretch it to include every act of violence, coercion or threat as that can inflame tensions further and effectively dilutes the word itself. Thats not to under estimate the distress, anger and resentment that builds up when there is a campaign against either an individual or a group. Just because one group of Muslims use the term terrorism to describe EDL activity does not mean that their description is either accurate or appropriate, not does it mean that we should consider offences of threats of kill as terrorist offences.

          2. So, if it turns out that the stickers are proven to have been placed all over London by muslims, and it then turns out that muslims burned down Chariots, would you consider those to acts of terrorism? If not, then I assume you side with Andrew Gilligan in his demolition of the EMRC report (in which demolition he points out that anti-gay violence in Tower Hamlets is far higher than racist violence in Tower Hamlets).

            The UAF trundle out the EMRC at their conferences to lend “credibility” to the UAF’s usage of muslims in their (failed) revolution. Even after Gilligan’s demolition job was so thorough that EMRC _withdrew_ their report claiming EDL demos were terrorism, UAF still have no shame in praising the islamist shills at Exeter.

            http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100066569/islamic-extremism-is-this-the-years-most-embarrassing-academic-report/

            Of course, no mention from the media about any of this.

    5. Firstly, the investigation into the gay hate stickers is still ongoing – the DCI of Tower Hamlets police was quoted in the last few days as saying he had not ruled out any options as possibilities …

      It is entirely possible that this event could be linked to homophobia of some type – equally it could could be an insurance job – it also could be an accident – they do happen … Its very early to jump to conclusions as to what actually has happened …

    6. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 11:16pm

      @ Dick Puller……Umm now that you……………..

      1. @James … Sorry it wouldnt let me post above …

        With regards to your comment starting “So, if it turns out that the stickers are proven to have been placed all over London by muslims, and …”, I would say it depends.

        If, the stickers were shown to be placed by Muslims and there were other acts that had the same motivation and arguably a connection (for arguments sake the fire at Chariots – despite not knowing if this was anything other than an accident) and there was both clear evidence of planning and political motivation, then yes – it would be arguable to call it terrorism.

        1. @Stu, Thank you for your thoughtful consideration on that.

          I hope it is NOT muslims who attacked Chariots (although I did warn gay friends last week that I feared this kind of attack would be coming). That kind of violence can escalate, and we want to find a civilised solution to the problems that our leaders have been happy to ignore for 20 years.

          1. @James I am worried that there will be an escalation in the tensions … There needs to be a sensible proactive solution of engagement with everyone affected by the current issues, that should include education, discussion, community involvement and the use of legal measures where necessary.

            I also hope it is not Muslims who caused the fire at Chariots, and that there is an explanation that demonstrates that the stickers were not a co-ordinated campaign as many are suggesting – although all the evidence presented suggests it may be, but there is no evidence mentioned that is not challengable.

          2. Not terrorism – hate crime.

  12. i am one of the organisers of the edl lgbt division. i hope they catch if it is arson the disgusting people who done this. i am a true lgbt person being bisexual myself . i hope this place is rebuilt as it was a very good kind place. i am a member of the edl and if this is arson we have had no involvement in this. edl is pro gay rights i have been involved for a long time all the people who met me know i am bisexual and i have never had any problems with it far from it they been very accomidating towards me. i will post my first name feel free to come on our facebook group if you wish to discuss this with me. shane

    1. The name should be ‘shame’ not ‘shane’

    2. Just wondering, what do you think of the cases of the christian b and b owners or the foster carers who were called homophobic?
      Ive never actually heard any EDL comment on such cases, does the EDL oppose all homophobia? Or just homophobia by muslims?

      Also do you think this country was founded on Judeo christian values and should remain that way?

      1. i bielive all forms of homophobia are wrong what ever the source they come from and we have commented on christians who was homophobic . jose you dont evan know me 1) i hate the bnp 2) i am a first aider meaning i would help anyone who needed help evan in a emergency regardless of what religion or who they are. 3) i challenge you to come along to a edl meet and talk to me face to face no you wouldnt be met by violence nor wil you find homophobic people nor will you find racist people it isnt tolerated in the slightest with anyone caught immediately banned for life and removed from such events. there are many asian people involved in edl including ,sikhs, hindus, jewish peoplemuslims one of these people is abdul who is a practicing muslim i have stood next to him and am very proud to have done so i am not against all muslims nor are others. we are against radicals ie anjem choudary and many others who preach hate. yes the edl opposes all forms of homophobia.

        1. anyone regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual orintation are welcome this definately includes muslims who are always welcome proof of this can be seen by abdul he is more of a celebrity within the edl and yes he is muslim and yes i would defend him to the hilt. it is very easy to judge us based on views the biased media and press put across as it is always anti us and is never fair press except with the few exceptions. once you actually attend a event its a different story as then you find out how much the media lie. we have had rabbi’s and many others who have spoke at our demonstrations. i have nothing to be ashamed about in the slightest and wont hide behind a keyboard to attack others like many do and am happy to sit down with a coffee with others and discuss our points of view in a mature adult manner

          1. And what about YouTube video footabge of EDL thugs indiscriminately attacking and threatening Asians in a fast food restaurant in Leicester?
            Your leadership speaks about muslims as one group, you demonise them all as extremists.

            What values do you stand for?

          2. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 10:06pm

            @shane……EDL=BNP…….BNP=EDL……….BNP/EDL=right wing racist facist homophobes period.

    3. We don’t know the cause yet.

      (Unlike the homophobic stickers – the police know asian youths put them up, and has told LGBT activist groups not to reveal this.)

      1. Well, there’s any easy way round this. We should be demanding to see CCTV footage and/or get the names released of those who were arrested. I’ve been told there were four separate “asians” arrested in connection with those homophobic stickers. Pink News only reported on one of them.

        In fact, we should be DEMANDING that those arrested get prosecuted for incitement to hatred. It is clear that the “No Entry” symbol on top of the rainbow flag is a threat. But no — we demand legislation against gay hate crimes, then we suspect the homophobes are muslims we shut up. If it was Buju Banton, or white men doing this, we’d be clamouring for them to be prosecuted.

        Why has the CPS taken the decision NOT to prosecute these people? We already know there are two muslims in Derby awaiting trial for inciting anti-gay hatred.

        1. James – you can’t “demand” to see the CCTV coverage or have the names of the those arrested released. We live in a democracy where the right to presumption of innocent until proved otherwise is a key cornerstone of us being a civil society. We can’t change that just because we don’t like how an investigation is progressing, the time it is taking or how it is currently being handled.
          There will be lots of speculation about what has happened in relation to this investigation and most of it will be complete rumour with no real basis in fact.
          Being arrested does not mean you are guilty – it means the police have reason to believe you might be guilty – and may need to ask you questions – but you may answer those questions in a way that leads to the police considering that you were not involved in the particular offence – so to suggest someone should be prosecuted for an offence purely due to being arrested is unjust.

          1. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 11:18pm

            @Stu …but don’t you see thats the problem facists have..they dont respect democracy…….

          2. Funny that you make an argument to defend the right to privacy for these people. Would you make the same demand if the EDL had claimed responsibility for the stickers and this fire? I’ll bet you would be DEMANDING to see the photos so the people could be caught.

            Programmes like Crimestoppers would have no outside footage if it wasn’t for them releasing the CCTV footage/photos of those the Police want to talk to.

            But of course, in case it is muslims, you want to protect them. Even if they were prepared to burn 500 gay men to death. Shame on you.

          3. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 8:41am

            Erm facists don’t respect democracy but homophobes I take it do Paddys…?

        2. As I understand it the reason there has been no prosecution is because the investigation is still ongoing …

          You seem to suggest, James, that we go very quietly on dealing with hatred from within the Islamic community against LGBT yet you then mention the case ongoing in the midlands of inciting anti gay hatred where the CPS endorsed the prosecution – where the evidence is there the CPS have shown they will endorse prosecution … as I would expect them to against LGBT who were exercising religious or racial hatred

          1. @Paddyswurds
            I appreciate that facists dont respect democracy – but if we dont challenge people who seem as though they are being reasonable in what they are saying, and expose the issues their processes would incur then more and more will be drawn to facism.
            I am sure some people spout things such as “we should demand to see CCTV” because they are ignorant of how it would undermine justice, others spout it because they know their argument is appealing to some who feel threatened by attacks and see it as a manipulative ploy to entrance those who feel threatened into agitation against police etc. Its subversive and must be challenged. Others are just ignoirant and idiots.

      2. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 8:39am

        If, and it is a Big if, this was arson, a homophobic attack, will that mean that Rainbow Hamlets and Out East will finally take responsibilty for a March against Homophobia or will the protection of all others still remain?

        1. @James – I was not defending the right to privacy of any individual, I was merely explaining that what you suggested should be demanded can not occur and ensure a safe prosecution – and if individuals/groups can be identified as responsible for the poster campaign then I am sure most of us would like to see a successful prosecution not one that is undermined by demands to see CCTV etc at this time. Equally, I was pointing out the difference between grounds for arrest and guilt – a major difference.

          @Jock S Trap – I would encourage a form of public protest against homophobia, not necessarily a march although that is symbolic. My concern would be that a decent message of standing firm against homophobia could either be directed towards a specific individual grouping despite there being homophobia in every walk of life and/or it could be hijacked by others as part of a political statement and when tensions rise due to three “groupings” then the risk of violence etc increases

          1. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 10:46am

            Stu

            We seem to talk about Tower Hamlets as a Muslim area. It is not. About 30% – 40% make up the Muslim portion of the community. The message would be to all Homophobes out their, Christian, Muslim, Black, White, Asian….

            I have to say it is the medias fault that we somehow have to pander to people believing they are dominate to that area when they are not. Unlike most of the country I guess the Muslim community in Tower Hamlets make up one of the largest but they are dominate to the area.

            Regardless of that here in the UK homosexuality is not illegal, so we have a basic right to be ‘out’ without any prejudice.

          2. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 10:49am

            I would have to add that if anyone Did think it could be directed towards a specific individual grouping, I would have to go along the line of why unless they had a guilty conscience?

            They’ll either agree homophobia is wrong or they won’t.

  13. This is surely gods revenge for the activities that may go one within!!
    I just thought I would pander to the religious right for about 30 seconds; which seems about as long as they have pandered to us, and I am being generous.

    1. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 11:21pm

      @Paul ….Meany Melanie Phillips will be good reading in the coming week. She deffo will run with this one, guys.

      1. Almost certainly …

        Probably with comments about it being a den of iniquity and recalling prior incidents that were drug fuelled and exposed in the media

        *feels faint at such thoughts and feels need to go and lie down in a darkened room – although not till he has found his Melanie Phillips voodoo doll*

  14. Insurance money. I once worked there. They are crooks.

    1. Might be an insurance job – have seen them before in the gay scene, but also elsewhere …

      It is too early for us to make suppositions as to what happened though

  15. I’d like to know who did this.
    I’d shake him warmly by the hand.

    The place is just on sh|thole of inequity and filth and should have been shut down years ago. It’s an embarrassment to anyone that considers themselves gay.

    1. I suppose you would say the same thing about burning down mosques with people inside. What a disgusting scumbag you are.

      1. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 11:24pm

        @ James…Why is this festering piece of sh!t Spanner on these pages anyway. Skinners bitch maybe?

        1. Firstly, Spanner we don’t know that anyone did this … it could have been an electrical fault, an accident or anything

          Secondly, your comments are an embarrassment to anyone who considers themselves gay

        2. @Adam – it could be homophobic Muslims I agree but it could have been an accident

    2. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 8:45am

      Spanner

      It’s called choice. Just as there are Straight saunas there are Gay ones. Thats the beauti of living in a tolerant, democratic society.

      1. Well said mister

    3. Your a silly cnut spammer and your issues are a deep seated hatred of yourself go and get some therapy and stop making a fool of yourself

      1. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 10:51am

        James!

        These cnuts…..

        …can I buy them in Sainsbury’s?

        :)

        1. Not sure if Sainsbury’s do them, but I hear they do them on special in Waitrose

          1. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 12:16pm

            Ah yeah, I’ve seen ‘em next to the cobblers.

  16. matthew ruth 20 Mar 2011, 6:23pm

    Meanwhile in a Sauna in Vauxhall…

    “I say Tristran this Sauna’s a bit fecking hot innit?”

    “Oh shut up Quentin, you’ve done too much ket you stupid queen”

    “Alright luv, keep your weave on, I’m only sayin, I’m sweating like a Perv in PC World here”

    “Oh shut youre feckin mouth, I’m off to shag that twink that was unconcious by the Jacuzzi if she aint come round”

    “Ooh get you, you’re a randy git for a 75 yr old”

    “39 babz, Gaydar age, Gaydar age” :)

    1. Your script-writing is inappropriate.

      You write as homophobe would.

      Your script comprises gutter-humour.

      1. matthew ruth 20 Mar 2011, 6:46pm

        Its not inappropriate in any way as no one was hurt.
        It might not be to your taste but its not written like a homophobe.
        If we cant laugh at queens in a sauna then what the hell happened to free speech?
        Sometimes as a community we need to laugh at ourselves a bit more

        1. well technically you were joking about rape (sex with an unconscious person), while I think you are totally free to say that, im totally free to say it is a offensive comment.

          1. matthew ruth 20 Mar 2011, 7:56pm

            That’s a fair point Scott, and noted

          2. well, there has been 6 rapes and 4 deaths at a certain waterloo sauna last year.

            Their not a great advert for the gay scene

      2. Oh get a feckin’ life. It’s the first thing that has made me laugh for a long time on here. If you think it’s inappropriate, go grow your own denim somewhere else with the rest of your commune.

        1. U r a sad, sad, sad, sad human being.

          1. Sometimes the best humour is dark humour … some people find it offensive …

            I found the script above amusing … I found it a humerous (if in part slightly sad) reflection of life in some gay saunas

            I despise rape but it doesnt mean I dont find the comments funny …

            Equally people who dont like that sort of humour are entitled to say that, but in a land where speech is free – people are entitled to make observational humour

  17. Yes, indeed, we could be lamenting the deaths of 150 gay men. There has to be a thorough investigation into the cause of that fire. It would be so easy to take a small bottle of petrol into Chariots, sprinkle it round a cubicle in some hidden corner, set it alight, and then rush off to a locker to get dressed and flee. So easy to do. All it takes is the will to do it.

    This HAS to be fully investigated and the owners must not allow any investigators to turn any blind eyes!

    1. As usual, the persecuionist fags immediately start whinging about foul play.
      It’s probably someone having a fag (a real one) in a cabin somewhere, or something electrical like a pump burnt out. You people always assume everyone is out to get you.

      Mind you, having seen some of the bad attitudes on here, maybe it is justified after all.

      1. You confuse me Spanner …

        I agree there is a persecutionist element on here – thats why I have constantly said in my posts that its too early to say what the cause is … it could be an attack, it could be an insurance job or it could be an accident such as the ones you mention eloquently in your post …

        However, in one of your earlier posts you made some vile suggestion relating to “shaking the hand of the person who did this”

        Now, either you think there is a persecuted LGBT community – who may rightly have a cause to feel persecuted – and that someone is responsible, hence you ill advised comment earlier. Or, you believe it could be accidental … it can’t be both …

  18. insert witty username 20 Mar 2011, 6:48pm

    Surprising as it may seem many of the 150 guys in the sauna may just be using to sllep before catching the train home from Liverpool St in the morning, lots of guys in suburbs like to go out clubbing but can’t afford hotels to stay in town.

  19. Terry Stewart 20 Mar 2011, 8:09pm

    Now I have heard it all. People are complaining about a joke, which some may find funny and others might find tasteless.

    Yet we have the ELD openly recruiting and only a few comments against them. Shocking, and why is Pinknews allowing this on theirr page.

    As regards the fire. What a disusting dive, offering people nothing but a quick handjob or a blowjob and absolutely no facilities. Health and Safety should close the place.

    Knowing the business community, it was probably an insurance job.

    1. Come on Terry – still lying about the ‘EDL’ sticker campaign are we? One of the activists who was at the meeting you and Rainbow Hamlets attended where the police said they KNEW the stickers were the work of Asian youths, has broken the silence. There is apparently CCTV footage of a youth taking stickers from someone in Islamic dress outside the East London Mosque, and putting them up. And the police don’t want this revealed because it might harm community relations. Isn’t that true Terry?

      And, a pretty nasty, inappropriate comment to make that shows no concern for any of the 130 people who were in the building. Once again, who actually appointed you to be spokesperson for the East End’s LGBT community?

      Any doubts who was responsible for the stickers, even without the CCTV footage, can see the Islam4UK filth, calling for a shariah state, plastered all along Vallance Road, which the police won’t dare to remove.

      1. Adrian – the investigation is still ongoing – and the police have repeatedly stated that they are not ruling out any option as to who might be responsible. The supposed police “knowledge” that Asian youths have put up the stickers – my understanding is that this is only one line of inquiry. As a former police officer who used CCTV evidence in many investigations, I would be amazed if the quality of any CCTV (even Hi def CCTV) was sufficient to evidence particular leaflets being handed to youths – thats just so unlikely …
        It seems to me that there is circumstantial evidence in the community to suggest that certain elements of the Islamic community could be responsible for the stickering but equally right wing groups have some Asian members or (elsewhere) have paid Asian youths to do things for them, to cast suspicion and hatred on the Muslim community.
        There are so many options re the stickers not just Muslims or the EDL – that the investigation needs to resolve.

        1. The police told the meeting they knew who did it, and their priority is now to suppress this. Their words, not mine. And be sure I’ve passed on this info to the Daily Telegraph and good people like Andrew Gilligan.

          Sure there are so many possibilities (a lottery win is possible too). But what is probable? Look at the Islam4UK stickers along Vallance Road’s lamp-posts; look at the attack on the RE teacher for teaching girls about other faiths; look at the parade of hate preachers at the East London Mosque; look at over 20 satellite channels pouring hate into living rooms from the Middle East; look at the councillor facing death threats because she won’t wear a head dress and prefers jeans. That’s before you look at the intimidation and assaults on LGBT people =, some of whom have even moved away – that helps reduce the hate crime stats doesn’t it!EDL…now they paid asians to do it? Give yourself a break.

          1. I think what the police want to suppress is hate in the community – not a particular incident. Having listened to a number of people involved in dealing with this situation, what they are keen to avoid is inflammatory comments from the Muslim community, the LGBT community, politicians or elsewhere that escalates this matter into a more difficult situation than it already is. The police have made it abundantly clear that they are investigating this matter and will continue to do so.

            You seem to link a number of issues that are not directly connected. The RE teacher attack is not related to the gay stickers. The councillor facing death threats is not related to the Islam4UK stickers. Each of these matters needs to be dealt with appropriately but by unsettling the community you are as guilty as those who espouse hatred of the LGBT community, be they Muslim or not, in doing an eternal disservice to the LGBT community.

          2. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 8:58am

            Stu

            People who don’t live in the area make excuses because they don’t know but believe me when I say most people living in Tower Hamlets Know perfectly well who put up those posters.

    2. The self-loathing Terry Stewart speaks. Why aren’t you calling for the prosecution under gay-hatred laws of the people who put up the stickers?

      Of course you would side with arsonists than gay people. Where’s the CCTV footage showing who did this. Let’s find out who’s behind it. Where’s the CCTV footage from across London showing who declared London a Gay Free Zone? Of course, Out East/Rainbow Hamlets are too busy defending islam to protect gay people.

      1. @James
        I would love there to be a prosecution of anyone who has spread hatred against the LGBT community with the stickers. However, I would like it to be a viable and successful prosecution based on evidence and a full and thorough investigation not based on supposition and rumour.
        We don’t know that the incident at Chariots was or was not arson, or if it was who perpetrated it. So to accuse Terry or siding with arsonists is juvenile.
        I have no reason to show favour or have an axe to grind in relation to Muslims – but this current obsession that all bad things happening in the LGBT community in East London are Muslim related is ridiculous

        1. Don’t be such a naive fool. The police have brought a whole raft of prosecutions under the 2006 Religious Hatred Act – not one has led to a conviction. Two men from EDL who climbed on the roof of a deserted warehouse for 2 days last May and played the Call to Prayer were beaten by armed police, and suffered broken bones. They were subjected to 6 weeks on remand. Then 6 months after their release all charges dropped.

          Stop pretending that you are in LA Law. We’ve already got someone who witnessed the police collusion with gay leaders, and we’ve got multiple reports from across London of “asians” who did it. I wonder if those asians were those famously gay-hating buddhists and sikhs?

          1. I’m not pretending I’m LA Law

            If this is genuinely Muslims aggressively targetting the LGBT community – lets use the full weight of the law against them – but lets make sure its a watertight case – not like the religious hatred cases you refer to (I know nothing of the specific cases so cant discuss them).

            Asians may be atheists, agnostics or many other faith/non faith groups.

    3. Terry you have surely got to admit that the edl (like any group or organisation or religion) probably has extreme divergence in its members beliefs.
      Are many prejudiced towards Muslims, yes, but im sure they differ in extent. Is this in a large part due to the misinformation campaign carried out by the national media against muslim people, also yes.
      Does the EDL gain support when groups like the UAF side with fascist who arent white against fascists who are white, yes.

      If the majority of muslims think im evil ro bad because the way I was born, I have no wish to be their friends. I am unlikely to be to annoyed if they are discriminated against. The only reason increasingly that I oppose discrimination towards muslim people is that im sure once such groups had repatriated muslims they would then try to get rid of me.

      1. @Scott
        A lot of what you say makes sense …
        Within the EDL there are many different strands of believe including some extreme views of hatred and some who are less inclined to hate motivated activities.
        A lot of the EDL membership, supporters and hangers on are anti Muslim.
        There is a distortion of the entire message of the EDL by the media
        The manipulation of this situation by fascists is obvious.
        I also dislike the fact the many Muslims think I am evil or bad because I was born gay. Equally many white, Christians have the same view. I dislike that view equally. Neither however, make me dislike the person – and its best tackled by challenging their failed arguments

    4. @Terry Stewart
      I thought the joke was funny …

      I am totally against the EDL – but believe in a country where we have a right to freedom of speech that the best way of tackling the insidious nature of groups such as the EDL is by confronting the untruths the tell, assumptions they make and misguided things (at best!) they say and exposing lies and hatred …

      Its too early to say what the cause of the fire was

      Last time I was in Chariots at Shoreditch it actually was clean and had reasonable facilities compared to some saunas

    5. Looking at OutEast’s website, it is obvious the group is the Far Left’s equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church. Islamist apologist Terry Stewart now claims to be an expert of Dutch Politics (do you even understand what the title of Fortuyn’s book ‘puinhoop van paars’, means, Terry?) .

      Let’s be clear: Shariah law is an attack on civilisation. It is barbaric, aimed at subjugating women and making children’s lives a misery. Evidence says so. And I will fight to extinguish every last tribunal in this country. Because I support the oppressed, and I don’t believe that men who batter their wives black and blue should just get ‘anger management’ courses, as one imam ruled. Feel free to quote that on your crackpot blog.

      Chariots staff: Terry Stewart works for Hackney Council. Yet he seeks to drive your business out of the borough.
      Contact the Mayor of Hackney, Jules Pipe CBE,
      Email: mayor@hackney.gov.uk
      Tel: 020 8356 3220
      Fax: 020 8356 3060

      1. I wouldnt decry your right to challenge Shariah law – and I would argue they should never be allowed to have any form of precedence in the UK over criminal or familial matters as we have a justice system that does protect from domestic violence etc.
        That said, there are plenty of Muslims who are against domestic violence etc
        There is a lot of misinformation out there. You seem to be perpetrating some of it by your suggestions, Adrian.

        1. Which suggestions were these? Pick them out.

          In fact, try learning to read properly. I don’t know where you get the impression that an attack on sharia law implied the whole muslim community wanted it for themselves or others.

          1. Perhaps you should learn to read properly yourself. At no point have I suggested that your attack on Sharia law (note – I disagree with Sharia law, but also disagree profoundly with your manner of attacking Sharia law) is suggestive of the entire Muslim community wanting it for themselves or others …

            As for your suggestions – its more what you clearly leave unsaid than what you directly say – you clearly have hatred for Muslims … and have jumped to conclusions as to what has happened in one instance and decided to associate it with another (more than one!) … that does the LGBT community more disservice than any other action I have ever seen.

          2. You really cannot read can you Stu. I made no such suggestion that all muslims wanted it forthemselves. You are idiotic – and completely wrong.

      2. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 9:10am

        Sharia Law is an attack on democracy.

    6. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 8:54am

      openly recruiting? Do you mean that in the Uganda way where ‘homosexuals are ‘openly recruiting” when we all know there no such thing going on.

      And as for your ‘As regards the fire’, it’s interesting that you applaud such action. I can also see from that Why you always seem to make excuses for some certain people in the Tower Hamlets community that was wholeheartedly agree with you. It’s understandable why you have allowed homophobia in Tower Hamlets.

      It’s a democracy Terry. If some people wish to do a sauna, it’s private and it doesn’t affect anyone else, that is there business, wiether you like it or not. If you don’t like it don’t go but don’t stop others who wish to and also who find it’s there only ‘save’ way of finding the sex they want. I’m sure you disapprove of Heath sex more.

    7. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 9:07am

      Just a thought….

      Terry Stewart, I have a question for you…

      Do you find Gay places, pubs, saunas, in Tower Hamlets offensive?

      1. @AdrianT – It appears to be you who can not read – at no point whatsoever have I made a suggestion that you said that all Muslims wanted sharia law. I know that is far from the case in terms of a significant number of Muslims who are content with UK law. It seems to me that you are a guy with some intellect, even though we disagree, and therefore I wouldn’t suggest that you were making such a view.

        @Jock S Trap – I agree that Sharia law does not fit within democracy. If, as you suggest, that many people living in Tower Hamlets “know” who is responsible for these posters then surely it is incumbant on them to provide their evidence to the police?

        1. Jock S. Trap 21 Mar 2011, 10:59am

          Stu

          The community as a whole know, I would imagine as do the police.

          Problem is now as the police have stated they do not know if the posters themselves and what they say are actually illegal. They are investigating if they do break any laws.

          Personally if it had been about religion it no doubt would come under incitement but being aimed at the LGBT community it looks like that might be different.

          1. @ Jock S Trap – I fully endorse your comments that, despite popular opinion, Tower Hamlets is not majority Muslim. I would also strongly agree that homosexuality is not illegal in the UK. I would suggest that to barrack, harass and alarm the gay community is at the very least a public order offence.
            The LGBT equality law was based on the religious law … so they should have parity. … Should …

    8. terry u sad prick why dnt u get a life if people wanna go there for that then let them its better than getting raped dnt u think i dnt go there myself but everyone to there own thing so sort ur sad lonely life out u sad jumped up prick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. That’s what I call hot sex. Nobody hurt. All good.

  21. Are poppers flammable? Just a thought.

      1. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 10:16pm

        @johnnyfox…nowadays thats about all poppers is…flammable, cause there is very little other than medical alcohol in the bottle.

  22. The owners of Charriots have been milking us for the gay pound too long. Better to go to a gy owned sauna such as Steamworks

  23. Wow i left there just before all this happened then. As someone said it was a cheap alternative to a hotel before my train home. I actually laughed out loud when i read about the passed out person by the sauna. As gay guys we do take the piss out of each other all the time and yet our sick senses of humour shows how strong we are to laugh at things that affect us directly. We all come together in times if need i love being gay we rock !!!!! :)

    1. Sensible comments at last

      Gays do rock!

      We do have sick humour – makes us rock more!

  24. Dani Nobody 20 Mar 2011, 9:23pm

    Seriously? Without any proof at all people are claiming it was those big bad Muslims who did it? Way to go, you hatemongers!

    1. Absolutely – lets wait for proof …

      Who’s to say it wasnt a cigarette badly disposed of …..

  25. Well well well I’m not Asian, I dont think we should be blameing them. I think a refub was well needed at that venue I’d say if anything it was a insurance job, Gone Well by the look of it so far. The place has not been given a lick of paint since 1924 . 100% insurance job I’d put money on it !!!!

  26. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 9:53pm

    Whats the betting an “Asian looking person” will have been seen pouring petrol from a 50 gallon drum and then setting it alight by rubbing two sticks together. The witness will have filmed it of course but then was mugged by two girls wearing burkas and roller blades and they stole the mini sd card from the phone and gave the “witness” back the phone. It absofcukinloutely couldn’t no way ever be accidental. noooooooooo!!!

    1. I would bet there is someone at the police station right now making an allegation of robbery about the mini sd card right now …

      But I bet they have heard from a friend that the local Imam had been preaching to young Asian kids who were cousins several time removed of the girls in the burkas – telling them that saunas were the fount of all evil

      Sheesh

      Accident – I hope so …..

  27. Interesting. Fire on the gay scene and the first conclusion many jump to the conclusion that its an insurance job or malicious in some other way …

    The thing that sprung to my mind was how many of the guys managed to get dressed before they were evacuated and were the lockers destroyed since the ground floor was wrecked … lots of towel clad guys in Shoreditch at the end?

  28. “I never liked that film anyway.”
    “What film?”

    “Chariots on Fire.”

  29. Not the usual kind of burning you get from visiting Chariots.

    1. Paddyswurds 20 Mar 2011, 11:33pm

      @Mark …probably the pixie dude in the sky practicing a bit of smiteing. Either that or he/she/it got jealous of all those guys “eating the forbidden fruit” and threw a strop.

  30. Just a thought, anyone get any pics of the evacuation … lol

    1. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 7:21am

      LOL I can only imagine. I remember seeing a video when FIRE in vauxhall was evacuated in a drugs raid… some hot messes not happy to be out in broad daylight I tell you….

      1. Once was evacuated from the gym whilst I was in the shower

  31. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 6:49am

    Errr.. it hasn’t even been confirmed as arson yet? Can we not speculate please…

  32. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 7:12am

    Can I also just say, I think it’s pretty clear right now that the sticker campaign was actually done by muslim extremists in the east london area, and that yes, as gay men we do face a very real threat from a rise in muslim extremism in east london and we should take a firm stand and direct action to such effect. There should be no speculation about that.

    But Joining the EDL is not a solution, it will make things even worse.

    I can’t bring myself to join a group that doesn’t believe moderate islam exists, when I have a family of moderate muslims who fit perfectly into society, pay taxes and love there gay son, his boyfriend and gay people very dearly.

    Fight against extremism in all forms, because if you target all muslims as a homogenized whole.. you are basically breeding more extremists.

    1. So, now our resident gay-muslim apologist has done a volte-face. Is that because you now know that the truth is coming out, eh?

      I agree with you — all muslims should not be attacked. In fact, I don’t think that violence against muslim extremists is the answer (well, not illegal violence).

      The police declared EDL “not a far right group” last year, yet all the media ignored that (except of course for the commies who all knew about it). Why would the rest of the media collude NOT to run with that story?

      If you think EDL needs your support, you are very wrong. Muslim attacks on gay people are just one interest to EDL. The racist violence of muslim gangs against white people that goes unreported is a bigger issue for EDL (after all, the racist muslims executed Kriss Donald). The paedophile gangs are a bigger issue — and the police inactivity that allowed them to thrive for the last 20 years. And of course, fascist organisations like Hizb ut Tahrir have to be wiped out.

      1. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 8:25am

        I’m not an apologist. There are massive things wrong with mainstream Islam. There are massive things wrong with the muslim community in britain. I never did a volte-face. I never said it was an edl conspiracy.

        Even if the police says the edl is not a far right group, the evidence is there that many ex members of the bnp, national front and combat 18 have joined to basically find a vent for there hatred. A few clicks on youtube and it’s there in plain sight.

        It’s like I don’t really want to march alongside the SWP because they have shared platforms with islamic extremists (islam4uk, vile disgusting group) and have insane communists in their midsts.

        It just seems like the edl truly believes the route of all evil in this country is ISLAM and if ISLAM was removed everything would be all better. That line of thinking led to something called “the final solution” in ww2.

        Those who forget history are destined to repeat it again and again.

        1. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 8:52am

          Also.. please don’t try and convince me that the edl are merely anti extremism, they clearly arn’t. Chanting things like ALLAH IS A PAEDO over and over again is not just ignorant (Check the guardian undercover with the edl article for this… also Allah literally is arabic for god, so they are saying god is a paedo?!) it’s plainly a movement against all muslims.

          1. Don’t expect fine academic distinctions from a group of mostly uneducated people.

            How old was Aisha when Mohammed married her? In many islamic countries child marriages are permitted on the basis that they are following the Sunnah (example of Mo the perfect man). Eg. Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Malaysia, etc. Girls as young as 10 are married off — what is that if not paedophilia? Are you really more of an expert on islamic law than all those Sheikhs who justify these things using islam?

            The Reliance of the Traveller (available in many public libraries in Britain and in mosque bookshops) says that marriage is legal with pre-pubescent girls.

            Are you ignorant of your own religion? Or are you trying to mislead us about this islamic sexual abuse?

      2. So how far right is right? There are people on here that think if you aren’t a fully paid up member of the communist party, then you are one step sideways from Joseph Goebells. Many groups including the EDL are very concerned about the Muslim growth, and rightly so.

        As I said before, if the main parties continue to stick their heads in the sand and refuse to accept the situation, then voters will continue to drift across to these extremist organisations out of desperation because their voices are not being heard.

        The problem is they attract the fringe nutcase fraternity that are really just in it for a fight, and this simply drags down their image. They need to seriously clean up their act and get rid of the yobs, the racism and the aggressive posturing, and start really showing what they want in policy terms and manifesto, or they will just become another BNP that is despised by everybody.

        1. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 9:23am

          I understand why groups like the EDL exist. NuLabour’s opening the floodgates of mass immigration in the name of neoliberalism has seen many people’s communities transform dramatically and with many people just claiming welfare, having no real incentive to learn english therefore ghettoizing themselves, retaining their cultures from back home and not bothering to try to learn and respect the culture of their own country. Alot of these problems have happened RECENTLY.

          The solution of demonizing islam as the reason for non integration is stupid. My dad came to this country from north africa to study to become a radio officer. He learned english, he got a master’s degree then joined the royal navy. The reason for non integration is cause of our lax immigration and guaranteed council house policies which the current coalition seem only interested in making harder for people who were actually born here!

          1. Good for you musclelad. Meanwhile my neighbour on the left has been here 15 years (and along with her elderly parents) doesn’t speak enough English to say more than ‘Hello’. And the family on the right are just as bad. It is a disgrace that these people have been allowed to be dumped in a ghetto. That is not multi-culturalism – it is mono-culturalism.

            Tommy Robinson has said in multiple TV interviews “multiculturalism has not failed”. It is the call to keep the Ummah as one — to keep moderate muslims alongside fanatics as one group. Baroness Warsi encourages this, as do the UAF — both address muslim audiences and tell them “do not join the EDL”.

            Last year EDL was maintaining a line between moderate islam and extremist islam. When Warsi says “there is no moderate islam, only islam” I see why EDL might agree with her.

          2. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 10:09am

            Baroness warsi does not speak for all muslims. Shes simply a stupid gimmick the tories rolled out to get the muslim vote and a homophobic cow too.

            Sounds like the problem with your neigbours is part of the wider immigration problem rather than an “islam” problem. I live in south east london with a very large population of nigerian christians, many of them dont speak much english, are brutally homophobic (got thrown out of a cab by one for kissing another bloke) and my postcode is also identity fraud capital of the UK. I don’t look at this however as a “black” problem or even a “christian” problem. It’s cause they won’t integrate, there is no incentive to.

        2. Part of the problem is not just the attraction that some middle ground voters have/may continue to have with extremist right wing parties but also the apathy within the electorate for politics

      3. Intrigued as to what you would term legal violence …

        It is indeed correct that the ACPO lead on extremism stated that the EDL is not a far right organisation.

        Whilst I can’t speak for the media – I suspect that there may be two reasons the majority of the media did not report this. Firstly, whilst EDL members may find that a significant news story but it would not be a story that much of the media would regards as key to many of their reader/viewers/listeners. Secondly, the police chief may perceive the EDL as not being far right, but others may have a different perception. There may have been collusion but I think the media have other issues that are more pressing to work together on.

        I would agree with you entirely that there are significant issues that are linked either to extremist Muslims or individuals/groups who use Islam as a crutch to bear their inappropriate and at times appalling behaviour to, in order to “justify” their behaviour eg honour crimes.

        That said ..

        1. There are extremists in every walk of life that will use religion (of all strands) or politics or many other things in an effort to “justify” behaviour that is wrong.

          For example, the website of an evangelical organisation that declared the earthquake in New Zealand was God’s judgement on New Zealand for supporting gay rights … Sheesh!

          I accept the initial reason for founding the EDL ie the appalling behaviour in Luton connected to the repatriation of military is legitimate and completely understandable but I think the EDL undermines itself by constantly addressing issues that are perpetrated by individuals in all sections of the community; but blatantly using the word Muslim against all of the issues.

          1. Stu, in a very wide range of social and political issues, islam is negatively implicated.

            * homophobic violence
            * anti-semitism
            * criminality
            * racist violence
            * fascism
            * gerry-mandering
            * paedophilia
            * Female Genital Mutilation
            * death threats & assassinations
            * insurrection
            * terrorism
            * drug dealing & supply
            * institutionalised misogyny
            * treason

            That’s not to say that other social groups/religions are not involved in some of that list. Would you care to name me one other social group or religious group that is implicated in so many social and poitical problems? And all of this done in the name of “God”, and with specific laws in place to protect that religion from criticism.

            And we have a media that covers up much of this (e.g. the paedophile gangs, the homophobic violence, the fascism, crime figures).

          2. @James – aaaargh – trying to reply to your comment below but it wouldnt let me reply ….

            Most of the social and political issues that you link to Islam have also been connected to extremist evangelical churches in Africa

            Equally, I would say that there are those within each faith group that are honourable and would consider involvement in any of these activities as immoral

          3. Stu, rather than worry about evangelical churches in Africa, I suggest we worry about things closer to home. That being said, can you please point me to the statistics showing that these christians are involved in the following issues in the UK:

            * terrorism
            * insurrection
            * drug dealing & supply
            * fascism
            * gerry-mandering
            * paedophilia
            * anti-semitism

            Can you please provide the information showing that said black christians are massively over-represented in the prisons.

            I think it is racist to attribute such things to these african christians without evidence. I have little time for any religion, but I think it behooves us to be informed and to make appropriate distinctions.

      4. James, the EDL support gay rights by accident, when it suits them, not by reason. I wonder what the proportion of football fans who make up their rank and file, as caught on video in Leicester, would say about you in the stadium. If you have to justify EDL by mentioning Hiz But Tahrir in the same breath – then you have all your work ahead of you still.

    2. EDL are nutters but the muslims and immigrants in general have made London a more homophobic place in the last 10 years. I never had as much greif as I have recently and wait until they have kids and a shop front chruch opens up in your high street. London except west will be a no go area for gay people

      1. Some in the EDL are barking – not all …
        Some Muslims and other immigrants have brought a strong form of homophobia with them into this country that has undermined a lot of the excellent work on ensuring gay rights in this country
        There clearly are issues in many faiths against LGBT people, not purely from Muslims

        1. on th eDL video in the guardian a man says I don’t mind ni**ers it the asians who are the problem. Charming. EDL are racist thugs nothing else

          1. And there is your blatant class prejudice. Do you think that man is a Guardian-reading university graduat who is used to knowing what the term-du-jour is for blacks/coloureds/people of colour/ africans/afro-caribbeans. And do you think that if he gave an interview that could not be used to denigrate a working-class movement they would show it? We’ve established that the media have completely ignored the Police Domestic Extremism Unit’s conclusion that “EDL are not far-right”. If they will ignore something as dry and dull and thorough and accurate as that (despite it contradicing the popular meme — man bites dog is news), then you can be sure they will be selective in their media coverage.

            The first time I went to observe an EDL demo I saw a TV crew interview a young working class man. He came out with very subtle and articulate answers. Yet I never saw that interview appear on any TV/video. Again “man bites dog” is not news.

            You should be outraged at the media manipulation

          2. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 11:08am

            I know, why wont the other james who keeps posting praise about them address this?

          3. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 11:11am

            Ah ok so it’s media manipulation when they interview someone’s actual views at an EDL demo but not media manipulation when the daily mail actually just MAKES UP stories about muslims which aren’t true. An example was an article about muslims refusing to serve bacon to old people in a care home. The story was found to be completely fabricated, so if anyone manipulates the media – the right has alot to answer for.

          4. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 11:14am

            Also mate, I think its you who is being class prejudice. I am white. I am working class.

            I grew up with white working class mates. None of use the term n***** when talking about black people. To assume all working class people are casually racist is you being prejudice.

          5. musclelad, I think that any news organisation that is proven of misrepresentation should be forced to carry an equally sized retraction & apology.

            However, since you think the media are responsible for “islamophobia”, why is the media have covered up racist murders by muslims like that of Kriss Donald? Why is that most people in Britain think that the 4% of our population who are muslim are law-abiding when approx 14% of the prison population are muslims? The % of halal meat in Britain is far higher than 4% (one industry report in 2005 crowed that it was 11%).

            For many things what we have is an under-reporting/defence of muslims in the press. We know that there has been collusion/coverup with these homophobic stickers. Not one press report (Pink News aside) as admitted they were put up by “asians”.

            Houston… we have a problem.

    3. I’ll add EDL are making it difficult to challenge these anti gay animals. Anyone who does will be seen to bo on the same side

      1. We’ve had 15 to 20 years to challenge these “anti gay animals”. Tatchell was fighting a lone battle. The problems are far more than just homophobia. When hundreds of muslims marched through the streets in 1989 saying “we will kill Salman Rushdie”, the authorities should have taken action (none were prosecuted).

        If you let things fester, they worsen. For 20 years we’ve sat on our hands because we have been scared to be called “racist”. The people in EDL have got to the point where they don’t care if you call them “racist”.

        The worrying thing for me is the Searchlight report from a few weeks ago that says “48% of the public are prepared to vote for a far-right party”.

        http://www.fearandhope.org.uk/executive-summary/

        It is very dangerous if people keep on calling EDL “far right” when it is not. EDL is growing massively, and we should none of us want the phrase “far right” to become acceptable.

        1. EDL are thugs I will not dignify them but something does need to be done

        2. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 10:18am

          nahh. not far right at all… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6R2JTmHUjA

        3. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 10:35am

          Also james, RE: the paedo thing. I was specifically referring to edl members chanting “allah is a paedo” not “muhammed is a paedo” if they wanted to be specific in the child marriage to aisha as mentioned in the hadith. “Allah” cannot be a paedo as “Allah” refers to god , a non human entity. That is why is it massively ignorant and why I wont be marching alongside you.

          The sunnah is something I don’t personally ascribe to, as the hadith were written a hundred years after muhammed died, many of them are proven fabrications and/or contradictory. I study quran only as the quran states itself it is the FINAL book.

          Wahabist islam which has suddenly also in the past 100 years become the mainstream sunni islam which people practice has many problems and certain things I do find morally abhorrant.
          And the reason for people justifying acts of terrorism and murder. But even then it’s still a minority of people carrying out those acts.

          1. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 10:56am

            also, why is Islam is the only religion that gets called up on having morally objectional content. All 3 abrahamic religions are pretty questionable at times.

            The Jewish talmud states: R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. (Sanh. 55b)

            Here is the bible on warfare:
            Deuteronomy 20:16
            However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

            1 Samuel 15:2-4
            2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
            3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. “

          2. If you do not follow the Hadiths, then you are not a muslim. How do you know when the Holy Months are? That is not specified in the Koran.

            So, you are saying that Mohammed WAS a paedophile? I think you will find that in the last 6 months or so EDL have chanted “Mohammed was a paedo”. It would seem that on that point you and the EDL are in agreement. How refreshing. That is truly progress.

            The minority of muslims who carry out the terrorist acts are supported by many muslims who will freely admit they support terrorism. The Muslim Council of Britain threatened violence if the pro-terrorist muslim preacher Zakir Naik was NOT allowed into the country to address 20,000 muslim fanatics. 7% of British muslims admit to supporting Al Qaeda (13% of young adult muslims).

            http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6309983.stm

          3. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 11:03am

            Who are you to say whether I am or muslim or not, have you been ascribed a divine right? Face it. You are seething with hatred right now because I am everything which that lunatic organization you praise so much denies exists. Someone who practices Islam but is a normal functioning member of society who pays taxes and is proud to be british.

          4. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 11:06am

            Also has it not dawned on you that the rise and popularity of extremism may have something to do with our country and the US bombing the hell out of muslim countries the past eight years?

            Or would you rather simply blame it on the fact that muslims are somehow inherently evil.

          5. So, you our patriotic muslim brother thinks islamically-inspired terrorism is justified?

            Whatever evils are befalling muslims in Afghanistan or Iraq are no more the fault of ordinary Brits than you are responsible for the evils done by muslims throughout the world and throughout history.

            Do you really want to go down that line of thought? I would relish it…

            And you know nothing of me. I was against both the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

            Please tell me how as a muslim you know when the Holy Months are if you reject the Hadiths. Are you just relying on someone else who accepts the Hadiths telling you?

          6. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 11:24am

            I never said I didn’t follow all hadiths. I said I didn’t ascribe to the sunnah. There are hadith sahih which are the more plausable ones, but even then I am unsure. I am unsure the way we practice islam today is even the way it was practiced back then, but I put my faith in god and hope I’m doing the right thing. I treat everyone I meet with kindness and respect and try not to talk ill of people or hurt them in anyway. I live my life as a good human being by following what I believe are basic tenants of islam. Why this upsets you I have no idea.

            Once again, you are putting words in my mouth. I did not justify supporting terrorist acts. I said the popularity of extremism, I.E insurgencies in iraq and afghanistan, wearing the burka and the idea of islam as a political movement are quite clearly growing as a result of the perceived global assault on muslim people, which groups like the EDL seem intent on nurturing.

          7. So, musclelad 23, you now say you DO follow the hadiths and not just the koran, and you said Mohammed was a paedophile. You also seem to be saying that as a muslim you have almost no idea what is islamic and what is not.

            You seem to be strangely lacking in knowledge, brother. Are you a convert or were you indoctrinated as a child?

            You say you don’t follow the Sunnah. But doesn’t the Koran say that Mohammed is the most perfect example and that you should follow his example? Surah 33:21

            It seems to me you are making it up as you go along. No wonder you have no problem calling yourself a “gay muslim”. Good on you.

          8. concerned resident of E3 21 Mar 2011, 1:09pm

            hats off to musclelad23 for staying calm and reasonable while his words are deliberately twisted by a poisonous verminous islmophobe. It might not seem that way on the pinknews boards, but really the majority of gay people I know want to live at peace with their muslim friends and neighbours and for the most part find that sentiment returned.

      2. I agree. Whether the labels of the EDL are correct or not, and I suspect there is middle ground there … there is a perception of the EDL of it being extremist and involved in violence and illegal activity.

        1. There is also a perception that islam is a religion of intolerance and hatred. Perception are not necessarily reality. And far too many have been happy to think in the well-worn grooves of “left” and “right” when it comes to islamo-fascism. The Left have tackled traditional fascism, and been silent on islamo-fascism (either through their own racism, or because “the muslims” are useful tool).

          Not all muslims are islamo-fascist, but certainly they number in their tens of thousands in Britain.

          We need a far richer vocabulary to talk about muslims. We have many words to describe those who grew up as christians: atheists, agnostics, lapsed, occasional, evangelical, etc. But we do not have the same vocabulary for muslims (Council of Ex-Muslims?)

          Maybe it suits the left wing to keep all those born into muslim families in a racist cage called “muslims”. Why should they be accorded the freedom of atheism, agnosticism, etc.

          http://www.kenanmalik.com/papers/fatwa_intro.html

  33. It was Arse-on

  34. Another reason to ban smoking?

  35. and everyone left in towels and their lockers destroyed – amazing how the story didn’t reflect on the human interest part – how did people get home, house keys, car keys, wallets, lives in ruins – why the reports not as good as I could make them??

    1. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 9:27am

      Oh dear god I never thought of that, Imagine taking the tube barefoot in a towel… so glad I wasn’t there that night!!!

    2. Do you know this? I suspected it might be the case – be very interested to hear more of the human story attached to this

  36. I suspect someone was off their head smoking in one of the cublicles

  37. glad everyone go out safe and well. sorry for those “not out or bi” guys…having to do some explanation! oooops

    1. Terry Stewart 21 Mar 2011, 12:36pm

      The fire was not Arson as some have suggested.The fire at Chariots Sauna at the weekend was an electrical fault, in tne internet area. Must have been one hot site they were on. No injuries. Please let folks know and dont let others use it to stoke up hate.

  38. musclelad23 21 Mar 2011, 12:51pm

    Thank god… just shows how quickly excitable certain people are to point the finger. I’m so relieved nobody was hurt and everyone was ok, I hope the owners end up giving it a nice refurb.

  39. @Joe – Sorry couldn’t get thread to let me reply in the chronological point in he conversation.

    Statistics are difficult to obtain for Africa, but here are some references to some of the areas you raise and a couple of others

    Genocide
    http://www.afrol.com/Countries/Rwanda/backgr_cross_genocide.htm

    Terrorism
    http://religionvirus.blogspot.com/2010/06/africas-vicious-christian-terrorist.html

    http://www.silobreaker.com/kenya-police-arrest-pastor-seize-bomb-material-5_2263593718718136360

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23723

    insurrection (difficult to find particular piece although many african nations had insurrection preached to them by their colonists)

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23723

    Drug Dealing

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article963924.ece/Pastor-arrested-with-R1m-worth-of-drugs

    Child Trafficking

    http://www.childtrafficking.org/cgi-bin/ct/main.sql?file=view_document.sql&TITLE=-1&AUTHOR=-1&THESAURO=-1&ORGANIZATION=-1&TOPI

  40. Tim Pickford-Jones 21 Mar 2011, 4:59pm

    Cheers for using my copyright photograph without requesting. see http://www.flickr.com/photos/hairyhippy/841144371/

  41. Interesting that none of the EDL supporters pitched into the debate about the N Ireland church and is hate filled advertising despite the EDL being about tackling homophobia and not focussed on solely Muslim homophobia – speaks volumes …

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