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Peter Tatchell says East End Gay Pride should be postponed

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  1. Christine Beckett 16 Mar 2011, 11:18am

    “it would be best if the march was postponed until a later date and organised by a broad-based grassroots and community coalition, untainted by associations with the EDL.””

    Yes.. That makes sense. But it MUST happen.

    chrissie

  2. Chutneybear 16 Mar 2011, 11:31am

    At last Tatchell says something sensible….

  3. I’d like to know more about the motivations of Imaan and where its loyalties lie. Also, I’d take a punt that it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that it itself could have associations with Islamist, Far-Left or homophobic groups.

    1. Douglas Pretsell 16 Mar 2011, 11:41am

      Imaan have been around a long while and are a bona fide support group for lesbian and gay muslims. Their “loyalties” lie specifically with their client base I would assume. I suggest you take your conspiracies elsewhere.

      1. And I suggest you take your unequivocal, unquestioning mind elsewhere. I suspect like most Muslims, they are Muslims first and British second.

        1. Douglas Pretsell 16 Mar 2011, 11:52am

          do you actually know any muslims? I do. Many. And I live in the East End too.

          1. Yes, I have several girlfriends who are Muslim. But I am sure you have more than me, and I can’t claim to live in East London either (I’m Central), so you’ve got me there too. Dear God.

    2. Hmmm, punter, if you have no proof, but only prejudice on which you based such speculation, my advise to you is this: do not punt man!

      1. I think there are serious questions that need asking about its motivations, that’s all. There’s nothing wrong with that. But heaven forbid a bit of inquisitiveness, right?

        1. You won’t get any answers here. Only lazy, simple accusations to deflect from the question. But it is very worrying the vague evasion/deflection technique.

  4. This is welcome news. Well done Imaan for coming up with hard proof to finally convince those who have been consistently lied to, misled and used by the organisers of EEGP.
    However, serious questions need to be asked. Why is there deafening silence from Paul Birrell, given that his support leant legitimacy to a clearly dodgy venture? If you are the director of London Pride surely it is your JOB to protect pride from exactly this kind of nonsense. Instead, what have you done? Your support for right-wing zealots based on NO research and your dismissal of legitimate concerns facilitated and strengthened the ability of right-wing zealots to abuse vigilant, progressive and inclusive LGBTQs of London. Worse, you divided the progressive LGBTQ. Many were misled to trust the organsiers, and thus oppose their friends who were, with good reason, asking for the march to not go ahead. Why are you silent now? Were you complicit? How much did you know? And, isn’t it time you resigned???

    1. It’s not against the law to be gay and opposed to attempts to implement Islamic values in the UK or Europe. More reactionary nonsense. I’d would’ve been best for this guy to be up front, but let’s stop making out that there’s something wrong with some of his views. He’s entitled to them, and he’s not alone.

  5. Dear Peter Thatchell,

    Gay rights is your identity. Its what you do. Its who you are. And yet, with zero research, and ignoring the voices of legitimate concern, you go and support dodgy ventures? I welcome your post now, but serious questions remain as to how much research and what research you put in before you support causes. My trust has been broken. You are not a gay man on the road. You are the most famous gay activist of UK. And all you can say, as you let down your community through poor research is ‘oops, I was busy’. Sorry guv, not good enough. Makes me wonder how often you have been too busy to actually come up with informed analysis.

  6. Peter Tatchell… by withdrawing your support, for this march, you are turning over the East End to mob rule, and to the control of a burgeoning Islamic theocracy.

    1. Peter Tatchell has done a lot of good work for gay rights. But he has a double standard when it comes to anything Muslim. That is seen in his very Anti-Israel views and his unwillingness to stand up when Muslims are violating other people’s rights.

  7. http://www.eastendgaypride.com/Home.html

    The march has now been cancelled, a day before the dossier on the rest of the organisers is published.

    I hope that a more positive event that condemns both homophobia and Islamophobia will happen in the near future.

  8. We don’t need a dossier on the people who have put up those Gay Free Zone posters, though.

    We know unequivocally that they would actively kill us all, or condone it.

    1. Agreed, goes without saying.

  9. OK. Can those groups who are so anti EEGP please tell me what is wrong for it to be remade according to inclusive LGBT principles.

    Some muslims are homophobes, same as some christians, we should protest wherever they are. But we should say it is not Islam we are challenging but homophobia, and say we dont care what divine authority you claim justifies your homophobia, it is always wrong.

    Too many gay people give religion “respect”. We should not respect it, whether it is christianity, Islam, Judaism or Sikhism. It will always be the biggest consistent threat to our rights.
    If you want to continue being a member of a group that thinks you are immoral for the way you are born, then fine that is your decision.

    I however have to much self respect for that.

    1. @Scott: If you read Imaan’s statement, you will notice that they had NOT called for the march to be cancelled. They had asked the organisers to step down and London Pride to take over. I think you need to ask the organisers why they preferred to cancel the march rather than relinquish control, and london pride on why they too refused to take over.
      http://www.imaan.org.uk/index.htm
      NO ONE opposed to EEGP has done so so far to appease any sentiments. They have merely refused to let the progressive and positive image of pride be hijacked by EDL, whose very existence is based upon the hatred of one group, i.e., Muslims. There is a world of difference between protecting Pride from fascist elements, which was the goal of the anti-EEGP group, and pandering to any religious sentiments, which was never done. Here those who have protested have been constantly misquoted by the Pink news.

  10. Who can trust Peter Tatchell any longer?

    http://www.petertatchell.net/religion/islamic.htm

    1. Percentage of British Muslim respondents who believe “That homosexuality is wrong and should be illegal”

      Ages 55+ – 50%
      Ages 45-55 – 54%
      Ages 35-44 – 55%
      Ages 25-34 – 65%
      Ages 16-24 – 71%

      http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/assets/Living_Apart_Together_text.pdf

      This is a huge problem. You should be more concerned about that. 71% of Gays don’t want to ban Islam.

  11. Parts of Imaan are very good. Others aren’t.

    For example, initially, they were part of the coalition to oppose Qaradawi. Then, Ken Livingstone sent in one of his little Socialist Action helpers, who persuaded them that Qaradawi was being attacked as part of a grand Islamophobic (and Jewish) plot. There were various resignations, and a pro-Qaradawi leadership took over. It may have swung back now, though.

    You have to cut Imaan some slack. They’re basically in the front line. They’re not professionals, and they’re the most at risk of attack. Have a look at their photo gallery:

    http://www.imaan.org.uk/photo_gallery/photo_gallery.htm

    It used to have pictures with the faces blurred out – now even that appears to be too risky for them.

    So, they might not always get things right, but they do deserve support.

  12. “A 1996 Al-Muhajiroun leaflet entitled, “Homosexuality, Beastiality, Lesbianism, Adultery and Fornication”, condemns gay relationships as “perverted acts”, comparable to “rape and murder”. It says that homosexual relations are “crimes against humanity”, which merit “severe punishment”. It goes on to boast with approval the Islamic injunction that homosexuals should be put to death.”

    1. concerned resident of E3 16 Mar 2011, 12:40pm

      NB: Al Muajiroun is just one in a whole series of far right groups that have been set up by Anjem Choudary and then promptly banned. They have never commanded more than a tiny minority of support though they make a lot of noise. They are in effect the islamic equivalent of the EDL and I would say the East End is best off without either.

  13. Thatchell??? 16 Mar 2011, 12:20pm

    None of the information about Raymond Berry’s links with SIOE was available until now.

    What are you suggesting – that any Gay protest against Islamist hate preachers and incitement ought to be treated with suspicion? Shame on you!

  14. In my opinion,I don’t think it is ever possible to organise or participate in a march/protest etc without at least one person taking part/organising who has an opinion the majority do not want to be associated with. I still think the march should go ahead as long as they are a very small minority. The overall message is surely more important than a couple of pillocks? I think if the Pride march on Apr 2 is cancelled it will give the wrong message to homophobes everywhere that the LGBT community is weak. Sometimes oppressors need a punch in the face – either figuratively or properly to realise they can’t get away with it. Again, just my opinion! Sian

  15. Tower Hamlets – the most corrupt council in the United Kingdom with a third world style fixed polling system.

    The March should go ahead and not bow down to threats, intimidation and the usual slander and lies thrown by the various far right groups. The homophobic Muslims, EDL and the BNP all need to learn very quickly that their oppressive and disgraceful opinions are not accepted and never to be tolerated in the United Kingdom.

    1. Jock S. Trap 16 Mar 2011, 3:58pm

      Too right!

  16. Peter Tatchell 16 Mar 2011, 12:35pm

    I was away campaigning in Australia when I was asked to support East London Gay Pride. It seemed a good initiative and a reasonable request, so I agreed. On learning about the EDL links, I withdrew my support. I accept that some people supporting East London Gay Pride did so for good motives and with no links or sympathy with the EDL. This whole saga does not reflect well on the LGBTI communities. Anyone who is interested can read my full statement here: http://bit.ly/fTtnhn

    1. concerned resident of E3 16 Mar 2011, 12:47pm

      thanks for clarifying Peter. And you are right, this whole thing stinks to high heaven. Here’s hoping something more positive and inclusive can be organised at a future date.

    2. Hard evidence of the EDL links did not emerge until yesterday. You were quite right to support this event UNTIL that evidence was presented to you.

      Are people here seriously arguing that Gays should never join a campaign against far Right Islamist incitement against Gay people, because somebody who was once involved in the EDL might be involved?

      If we do that, Gay people might as well give up the struggle.

      What we want is an event which opposes Islamist inspired Homophobia, while rejecting the “help” of the far Right. Let’s hope that Tower Hamlets builds that event. But any response MUST recognise the hatred and vitriol flung by Islamist hate preachers against Gay people, that has put their lives in danger.

    3. This whole saga does not reflect well on the LGBTI communities

      Yep and the racism is not isolated in LGBTI community

      1. Harry Hill 16 Mar 2011, 1:30pm

        It reflects excellently on LGBTI communities. It shows that the moment there was evidence that Raymond Berry was an EDL supporter, action was taken.

        Now, how about the anti Gay Hate Preachers at the East London Mosque? The “Spot the Fag” lecture, for example?

        Gay people have got their house in order. The East London Mosque receives millions of pounds of public money. It is time Gay people received an apology from them.

        1. Terry Stewart 18 Mar 2011, 10:23am

          I am afraid that some Gay people have not got their house in order. Paul Birrell is only one example of this.

          Many members of the LGBTQ community, who were linked into the discussion and given full information, from day one, still engaged with the EEGP.

          There is no excuse for their opportunism. They saw a fat pig and thought, lets jump on its back and unfortunely for them it turned out, (as we warned) to be a posioned pig.

          Put your house in order, before you start ordering others to do the same

          1. Jock S. Trap 18 Mar 2011, 4:42pm

            And yet all you lot have done it allow the homophobes get away with there actions while I suspect many more from the LGBT community suffer through your actions of doing nothing.

            You should be ashamed of yourself.

    4. “The vast majority of British Muslims are not fundamentalist fanatics. They don’t support hate preachers. Although most of them do not approve of homosexuality, they do not discriminate or harm LGBTI people”

      Wrong – there is plenty of published data showing the majority of muslim in the UK want to make homosexuality illegal

    5. There seems to be a general tone that now that ‘hard evidence’ has emerged, we can take clear stands. The point I am trying to make is, the hard evidence did not just drop from the sky. Vigilant LGBTQs investigated. Based on legitimate suspicions. Yet the same people who are today accepting this evidence continue to portray these earlier suspicions as baseless, and heap abuse upon those who have, in my opinion, done a service to the LGBTQ community by being vigilant. The irony is that these same people (Imaan, OutEast, Lattelabour, Safra Project) have been consistently abused for doing this, either as ‘haters’, as ‘sour grapes’, ‘money-makers’, apologists, homophobes etc etc. The list is endless. AND, the abuse and misinformation continues. Even in this thread, with people asking questions of ‘motives’ of Imaan. Its alarming how much ugliness there is within the queer community today

  17. Paulo Silva 16 Mar 2011, 1:35pm

    Well this goes to show that we at the EDL are the only ones fighting against islamic bigotry and homophobia. We suggest that the queers who have been let down by the self appointed and self loading gay “campaigners” to join us. Unlike the leftists/islamists we do not discriminate!
    https://www.facebook.com/EDL.LGBT.Division

    1. Harry Hill 16 Mar 2011, 1:40pm

      Rubbish you are. The people I know who are fighting Homophobia the hardest, and most effectively, include a whole bunch of straight Muslims.

      Unlike you, they’re well placed to take on the sort of hate preachers that the East London Mosque hosts. Unlike you, they don’t hate Muslims.

      1. Paulo Silva 16 Mar 2011, 2:01pm

        Harry don’t be silly, we don’t hate muslims at all. We campaign against political islam which affects muslims the most. As for your statement that str8 muslims are fighting muslim homophobia that is fantastic, let’s hope they can actually be as effective as you say they are because so far we have seen no results to speak of.

    2. Oh yeah? And how long has EDL been fighting homophobia? I do recall that one of the people EDL invited to UK was Terry Jones. Jones’ so-called Dove World Outreach Center in Gainsville, Florida posted a YouTube video which decried the possibility of an openly-gay mayor and a lawn sign saying, “No Homo Mayor”. A month later, his congregation participated in a joint protest against homosexuality with the Westboro Baptist Church, a group known for disrupting the funerals of American soldiers.
      http://politicalscrapbook.net/2010/12/edl-terry-jones-visit/

  18. So, now gays are supposed to cancel events because somebody might be offended? That is hardly a step forward.

    1. Nope, the organisers cancel events when it comes out that actually, they have lied to their supporters about their motives and about their politics (just a bunch of friends, we equally hate all politics- oh no, oops, one of us was amongst the founding members of EDL and none of us knew!).

  19. Jock S. Trap 16 Mar 2011, 2:59pm

    Sorry but what a bloody hypocrite.

    We are perfectly capable to protest against any forms of homophobia without being told.

    In any case reviewing some of the Outrage stunts in the early years I look forward to Peter Tatchell making a stand against Muslim Homphobia as he did against Christian Homphobia.

  20. Jock S. Trap 16 Mar 2011, 3:03pm

    “On Easter Sunday, 12th. April 1998, Peter Tatchell and six other members of the queer rights group OutRage! interrupted the Archbishop of Canterbury’s Easter sermon in Canterbury Cathedral to protest against Dr. Carey’s support for anti-gay discrimination. The OutRage! activists walked into the pulpit, holding up placards. Tatchell spoke to the congregation, criticising Dr. Carey’s opposition to gay and lesbian human rights.”

    Why has he not done the same with the East London Mosque? Of course we know that rightly it is probably because the consequences would be much more severe and personal than that of the charges he faces after the above stunt.

    However we do know the levels of homophobia that exist th in the Muslim community and in the Tower Hamlets area Muslim or not but how is not making a stand helping those Muslim LGBT people if we can’t show our support for them and everyone else and make a stand against homophobia.

  21. Peter Tatchell 16 Mar 2011, 3:55pm

    Jock S Trap, Do you never read the news? Since way back in 1989 (long before nearly everyone else) I challenged Islamist fundamentalists. As a result, I have been physically menaced, had death threats and been arrested (while the Islamist mob threatening to kill me was allowed to walk free). For a while, I had to seek police protection because the threats to kill me were deemed so serious.

    One example of many: Members of the fundamentalist group Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT) threatened to kill me in May 1994 when I and five other activists from OutRage! picketed its 6,000-strong rally at Wembley Arena. It was six of us against 6,000 of them. Despite their numbers, abuse and death threats we made our protest. They said: “We will track you down and kill you.”

    We were protesting against HT’s call for the execution of gays and unchaste women and its anti-Hindu and anti-Jewish incitements.For our peaceful protest, we were arrested by the police.

    1. Jock S. Trap 16 Mar 2011, 4:16pm

      I was hoping you’d say that so far enough, I’ll take it back and apologise.

      Therefore isn’t it understandable the anger and frustration that we feel for these hate posters going up and Now not being able to protest against such action. Isn’t it also a fact that the LGBT community has up til now been able to take a stand without leeches sucking on from any group.

      Out East and Rainbow Hamlets says that to make a stand might offend the residents of Tower Hamlets but where would you or Outrage have been if you listened to those that opposed you? Nothing stopped them from setting this up.

      We as a community had Every right to protest, just as much as everyone else, yet on this issue we have been trampled on and a message sent ot the homophobes that their behaviour is fine. Having escaped years of Islamic racism and homophobia myself I feel I should have that right to help others. Sadly the groups that should have set this up disagree.

    2. Given what you’ve just said, your withdrawal of support from this March seems highly illogical. Same beast, different location.

      It doesn’t matter that there are proportionally as many gay Muslims as there are in other cultures. It doesn’t matter that there are progressive and westernised Muslims. Islam and modern civilisation are incompatible. We need to halt permission for the building of any more mosques or Islamic faith schools here, and start policing with audio and video surveillance the ones that already exist. There is not a country on earth that has not been divided by having a Muslim presence. Where Islam has dominance, no other minority group stands a chance. Proven fact that can not be refuted by any example.

      1. My comments above are to Peter Tatchell.

      2. Facts, i.e., ‘that there are proportionally as many gay Muslims as there are in other cultures. It doesn’t matter that there are progressive and westernised Muslims.’ Do not matter.

        My prejudice against Islam, ‘Islam and modern civilisation are incompatible’ matters.

        Way to go Madhammo. With that brand of logic you are sure to be a winner all the way!

    3. Mr Tatchell: I find it extremely disappointing that you have taken the time to reiterate your credentials on this blog but you have failed to address the hatred towards all Muslims by a number of the other bloggers. Moreover, it would appear that you are in fact reinforcing anti-muslim stereotypes. I have always had a lot of respect for you and your work, however, it would appear that your critics may have a point when they highlight how you go out of your way to protect your reputation, even at the expense of your causes (assuming that tackling all forms of hatred and bigotry).

      1. Paulo Silva 18 Mar 2011, 12:18am

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBUuUzaKXeM

        Maybe queer.com is still missing the point?

        1. no, its ignorant fascists like you that miss the point!

          1. Jock S. Trap 18 Mar 2011, 4:37pm

            And yet is it you queer.com who is clearly being the most ignorant, the most stupid and the most dangerous.

      2. Jock S. Trap 18 Mar 2011, 4:40pm

        queer.com

        Grow up you pathetic little creep.

        Your are the worse one here.

  22. George Broadhead 16 Mar 2011, 4:46pm

    I hope that everyone agrees that criticism of Islam (so-called Islamophobia) not only on the grounds of being anti-gay but curtailing the freedom of women, condemning non-believers to hell-fire, and requiring the death penalty for apostates, does not constitute racism.

    1. I’d go further. There’s no such thing as Islamophobia. It’s a convenient made-up word transparently invented so as to keep in their place anyone who disagrees with Islam.

      Islam and progress are incompatible. Islam and modern values are incompatible.

      We are dealing here with people who worship a mass-murdering paedophile!

      1. I think I’ve clicked here. All these people stating “Islamophobia doesn’t exist”, is actually stating that racism, sexism, homophobia are all bigoted unjustified attacks on certain groups, but as attacking Islam is justified, it cannot be a xxx-phobia or xxx-ism.

        I say bullsh|t. It is not the justification that is important, it’s the effect.
        Islam scares the crap out of me, so QED, I am Islamophobic.

  23. Do you remember this one?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

    Zero tolerance for homosexuality among muslims. I can’t see any moderate muslims here!

  24. Take a look at this for a wannk site:

    http://www.imaan.org.uk/

    Utterly meaningless. I think it’s just a meeting place for Islam-inspired cowards to get off with each other, and then support the throwing of walls on gays when they’re back at home with ma and pa.

    Compare and contrast with these brave folk, who have said goodbye to Islam, and aren’t afraid to say it…

    http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/

    1. PumpkinPie 18 Mar 2011, 5:48pm

      You think cowards would be out LGBT muslims, let alone run a support group for other people like them, yet you think muslims are a group of savage killers who exist only to murder us all? That logic doesn’t really hold up very well.

      Either these people are cowards and muslims are benign pussycats, or Islamic bigots are dangerous and these people are incredibly brave. Choose one, because your initial statement makes no sense.

      Also, I checked out the forum of that ex-muslim site you linked. Very interesting place, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, I think you’ll find a lot of them disagree with your rabidly anti-muslim view. There seems to be a fair few intelligent people on there who acknowledge and support moderate Islam, and most of them seem to detest the EDL.

    2. Why dont you take a look at this and educate yourself? Jeeez! http://www.channel4.com/programmes/a-jihad-for-love/4od#2928686

  25. I’d also like to add that Peter Tatchell’s skin looks very greasy in the picture that accompanies this article.

    I won’t be pontificated to by a man who is in desperate need of Natraderm Skin Lotion.

  26. Do not let them stop you, that is what they want you to do. Make a bigger show. We know the Catholics, Mormons and Evengielical Christians are the enemy who soend millions of dollars on their Christian hate groups to stop gays marriage and gays.

  27. Watch this about racist asians

  28. When it comes to gay rights. EDL is the BIGGEST hypocrite of them all. Check this out:
    http://politicalscrapbook.net/2010/12/edl-terry-jones-visit/
    So, on one hand they wage war against the ‘homophobic Mulsims’ and on the other hand they invite anti-gay preachers from America to talk at your events? The opportunism is shamefully transparent. Isnt it time you stopped trying to use LGBTQ people for your own politics of hate??

    1. Jock S. Trap 20 Mar 2011, 12:28pm

      Meanwhile Homophobic Muslims being invited to speaks at the East London Mosque and conduct as ‘Spot the Fag’ contest is erm, acceptable, ikkarus?

      You is a big hypocrite.

      They are both wrong yet you treat one correctly wrong while ignoring or making excuses for the other.

      Homophobia is Homophobia. It doesn’t matter who does it the damage it does is also the same, usually destructive.

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