As mentioned in previous statements – you can now fully see what was behind this ‘East End Gay Pride March’.
I hope that those who were backstabbing those of us who have worked behind the scenes for the whole of East London to build bridges between all our communities can now apologise and come together so that we can move forward.
One of the main aspects out of all of this is that the mosques in the area have agreed to support and included homosexuality in it’s discussions and the fact that ALL hate crime is no acceptable . . .
What are you doing to ensure that the muslim groups in the East end are fully accepting of gay rights.
Just because 1 of the Pride organisers has a dodgy past does not mean the muslim community in East London is not guilty of extreme bigotry.
Good to see the truth has come out. Shame on Raymond Berry for trying to dupe the gay community in such a way. And well done Rainbow Hamlets for dealing with this matter with so much integrity.
The concept of an East End Gay Pride is a good one but it needs to be an inclussive event welcoming all communities to come together to celebrate our diversity whilst at the same time standing together to make it clear that homophobia and Islamaphobia is not acceptable in this country any more.
There are issues that need to be addressed, but those are issues with individuals and small groups who are resistant to the spread of human rights and respect for all.
As this case has shown, we can not allow the mindless acts of a few stop us from reaching out to each other in peace, and taking the time to work out our differences together.
We can all be a force for good in this world if we choose, I know what I choose – the rest is up to each and everyone of you.
East End Gay Pride is already inclusive, thanks. We do not need to apologise, or to make efforts to put others at ease, because of who we are. There is no need for EEGP to have to emphasise asserting one’s nature is not anti-Islamic. Infact, it is anti-muslim bigotry to do so.
Rainbow Hamlets continue to deny the clear fact that an 18 year old Asian youth was caught red handed – then let go, because the police could not decide whether the stickers were a hate crime. RH continue to spout rubbish about the stickers being the work of the EDL. So do Out East. R’bow Hamlets associates itself with a mosque that has hosted and promoted hate preachers that have committed treason and preached death to gays and Jews, without even demanding an apology! That eclipses past membership of a bigoted party by a mile.
And why is the claim of far-right extremism substantiated with the very sensible belief that Sharia can have no place in English law?
as I understand it, the Asian youth who was caught with a sticker in his hand was actually gay and removing it from outside his house. He was released with no charge, but don’t let that get in the way of your obvious prejudices.
evidence please, rather than just hear say.
Adrian, really, that old chestnut? The white man saves the brown woman from the brown man. Your ignorance of the system and of the culture is self evident. The woman doesn’t need the permission of the Imam or the Rabbi. Individuals in these communities (they are not one homogenous group, whether you are referring to Muslims or Jews in this country) are capable of defining their own liberation and freedom. Groups like Safra and Imaan play a pivotal role for LGB individuals from these groups.
Similarly, as an out gay Muslim (and save me the diatribe about belonging to an organisation…. Islam is not an organisation, its my heritage and I take of it what I want, not what is dictated to me by you or the likes of Anjem Chaudry) living in the East End, I do not feel part of this knee jerk reaction “pride” that seems to only highlight the prejudices within the gay community. So much for it being all inclusive!
oh and Sharia is only used in the UK with consent of both parties for civil proceedings in much the same way as Bet Shin is also used for consenting Orthodox Jews. It is never likely to be used for anything other than that, despite what some isalmophobic individuals might have one believe.
And how does a vulnerable, abused wife tell the imam, she would rather have justice than his kangaroo court? The overwhelming evidence is they are forced to.
‘Once, just only once, if an adulterer is stoned nobody is going to commit this crime at all” – Suhaib Hasan, Secretary general of the Islamic Sharia Council.
‘overwhelming evidence’ – really? The sharia laws over civil proceedings are actually very similar to Bet Shin only the Bet Shin courts have been going for over a century. By contrast Sharia courts have only been around for a short while. So are you also going to start denouncing the overwhelming evidence of Orthodox Jewish sexism etc?
Ok I oppose all religious courts. Justice is secular. It is based on legal principles, not religious ones.
Sharia Courts are used in Tower Hamlets and are partially cruel. They go against British law as with several cases of Muslim women who have suffered domestic abuse & violence. One women who had been badly beaten by her husband while she was pregnant was actually told it was her own fault because she was a bad Muslim.
I have to say though had this protest been against a Christian community we would have had none of this double standards. Like with a few commentor here when it is about Christian homophobia and racism thats just what it is. However when it comes to Muslim Homophobia and racism we mustn’t offend.
Last time I checked this was the UK and in the UK the law states that I can live my lives as a Gay man without hatred and prejudice. It also says that I am perfectly within my rights to protest against hatred, when it is shown.
Rainbow Hamlets and Out East will continue to support hate, denial and opression of the LGBT in the Tower Hamlets area. They will continue to focus on making excuses for the hate criminals while the LGBT community suffer from the clear lack of their support.
If you don’t want to be part of protesting against homophobia, don’t but can you really say you are commited to LGBT issues when your only ever making excuses for it?
This is for French TV but from 2 mins in you start to get the bit about homophobia in Tower Hamlets.
I know I was one of about 8 who were force off the estate I live at and the area I was born and spent my life. One friend had even worse homophobia that I and was forced to move shortly after myself.
@ Jock S Trap…Why does that not surprise me….I am white male and gay and i wouldn’t want you living in the same county as me never mind the same estate. BTW dont you mean you had to leave the trailer park.. Would seem more appropriate!!
I’m done with ya. Your nothing but a child. Your a Blatant racist who attacks Black people then make excuses for Muslim Racism/Homophobia. Your a pity excuse.
You bring nothing. Your too immature.
Grow Up. End Of!
Ali – to repeat, I oppose all parallel legal systems. You are welcome to pray, dress how you like, and believe whatever you like, but there is One Law For All – no exceptions.
I’ve met too many victims to be persuaded otherwise.
Human rights are universal, and it is racist to say otherwise. We have a democratic law of the land, under which everyone is equal.
Sharia Law, Beth Din Laws are based on group rights, not individual rights. They deserve no legal recognition. It’s vital that women know they have access to proper justice in this country, wherever they are.
The judgments passed on inheritance, child custody, divorce and domestic violence reinforce women’s subjugation. The state should not be sanctioning this. Mixing of religion and state is barbaric and contrary to a civilised society..
@Adrian, I refer you to my post above. Which you either incapable of understanding or chose to ignore.
No, I understood your plea for moral relativism perfectly well, Ali. You referred to skin colour – bizarre, since race has nothing to do with religion. There is one law, a secular law, for all, and that is all there is to be said. There is lots of evidence to show sharia law bypasses due process, ignoring basic protections of women in cases of violence, and does not consider the child’s interests as paramount. It is scandalous that the Imaan Inquisition seeks to excommunicate from the LGBT movement good people who find this to be incompatible with a civilised society.
Adrian, you have your hate agenda against all Muslims, which is evident by your specific attack on Sharia Law, not Bet Shin or other systems that work UNDER British law in certain circumstances. You have no evidence for your ridiculous accusations made to give the false impression that Sharia law is secretly taking over society!
It is racist for you to think that you can impose your definition and methodology for the liberation of the world, this imperialist ideology belongs to the 19th century not the 21st!
There is evidence in the youtube film I posted of the Muslim woman at a Sharia law court and how she was treated after been beaten.
Its really no good throwing your name calling if your going to sit in denial and pretend these things aren’t happening.
There have already been a couple of protests by Muslims in the area (that I know of) one against ex president Musharraf, another protesting and calling for the death of an Iman for suggesting Islam Could be compatable with evolution. Lets not forget the Poppy Burning and the Muslims that protest FOR sharia law in this country.
In particularly in the last case where was it announced these demos couldn’t take place for fear of offending the local community when their message was one of hatred.
So given that Our message to the Whole community is one of being Against Homophobia, Against Hatred, why should we have to stop and think about who it might offend?
Also as far as your comments to Adrian, I think your seeing something in nothing as he has made No such reference to Any hate campaign against Anyone.
All 56 countries of Organisation of Islamic Conference (an islamic pressure group within the UN) have REJECTED the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. They put forward the Cairo Declaration, which subsumes all human rights under sharia law. Hizb ut Tahrir makes it clear that in the pan-national fascist dictatorship they envisage, all of us would live under sharia law.
Sultan Hussein Tabandeh (a renowned 20th century muslim jurist) in his book on the UN Declaration, points out that under islam SLAVERY IS LEGAL.
The Reliance of the Traveller is one of the popular books on sharia law — conveniently the translator decided NOT to translate the sections on how sharia law governs slaves.
If sharia law in the west is only about “domestic disputes” why are muslims buying this English translation of a 14th century book (a book which calls for gay people to be executed?)
Prehaps people should remind themselves which countries voted against the UN resolution about sexual orientation.
Ali, your comments are hugely insulting to the many women and children who have been served severe injustice under Sharia kangaroo tribunals in this country. You should learn to debate like an adult rather than resorting to infantile insults when someone doesn’t agree with you. Grow up.
Interesting to find out that I have been “Blocked” from the East End Gay Pride group since raising my concerns about the recent exposure of Raymond Berry’s involvement in the English Defence League.
Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing I say. What is clear is that things are not as they should be and we now have to question the motives of all involved in this sham of a non-political parade as it is not what at first it appears to be. We all need to look at bit deeper, and see what really motives those who are organising this event and examine in detail the words that they say and the comments of those that support them. It all becomes much clearer once you examine their friends lists and see who is connected to who.
Having given Raymond Berry the benefit of the doubt during last weeks meeting with Rainbow Hamlets and as an independent participant debated with those with those who wanted to shut down this event – I am genuinely dissappointed by his betrayal.
OutEast hides the truth about who put up the homophobic stickers. The Police told them in a public meeting that the culprits were asians. there is CCTV evidence. The Police don’t want this information to be revealed because it might ‘harm community relations’.
Why spread lies about an EDL hoax? I don’t thik liars should be allowed to represent anybody let alone organise pride marches. We need a committee to oppose Hackney Pride in September, not just boycott it.
You’ll have absolutely no aopology from me, I can assure you.
what a tiresome little fascist you are.
Good, the only people that need to apologise here are those passive to islamofacism.
Has Imaan revealed who the other far right wing memers of EEGP are or is it all just hot air?
An outsiders view :http://duchessofhackney.blogspot.com
Sorry wrong link ..Correct link: http://duchessofhackney.blogspot.com/2011/03/east-londons-big-fat-gay-pissing.html
OutEast KNOW that the people who put up hate stickers in Whitechapel are Asians. The Asian teenager got the stickers from a man outside the East London Mosque.
Why lie Terry??????
Why did the Met tell OutEast and Rainbow Nitwits to keep quiet about this?
I would also like to add that now that Pride London has come out and distanced themselves, I also hope that Peter Tatchell does the same.
Further statements will be coming out later this week.
Still not withdrawn there support from the website
Bully for Pride London.
But I fail to see how one man’s involvement with an extreme movement should mean the event be cancelled?
Pride has always been there to push the boundaries and show those who would do us harm that we’re not to be trifled with. I still believe that East End Pride is merely following that tradition.
It isall political. Instead of supporting one another you organisations stab others in the back to suit your own needs and that honestly is pretty nasty.
There was already an event being organised by many of us to include all of us before this came about!
Just because you don’t know about it don’t criticise! Get involved – don’t harp from the sidelines . . .
It is good to see that Pride London have finally removed the comment by Daniel Taylor stating “its a special one off event just to show they gay hating muslims we are atill here and not going away :O x” 08 March at 13:16*
Checking Daniel’s profile I noted that he supports EDL
Worryingly two people liked this comment: Roberto K Messuti and Aoife O’Sullivan.*
At first Pride London just responded “But remember it’s a pro-lgbt event not an anti-something event so show your support and paint the east end pink! Go with love not with hate, show them how proud we are to be our wonderful selves!” 08 March at 13:19*
Pride London need to take action NOW to either take over and manage this event properly or distance themselves and call on the orgnaisers to close the event down. East End Gay Pride needs to be an inclussive celebration of our diversty otherwise it has not right to call itself a pride event – even Pride London does not ban groups within our community from taking part.
It’s perfectly includive already. No need to ask other people’s permission or go out of the way to assure anyone in order to assert one’s nature.
If anyone needs to do any reassuring, it is the leaders of the East London Mosque and its adjacent Islamic Centre. They are the ones who have hosted numerous hate preachers. And to be frank, the muslim community as a whole should say they condemn such hate preachers. Why? Well watch this video, taken, you know where:
Come on, where is the real intimidation coming from?
* screen prints of these comments available on request x
And Pride London checked out the EEGP organisers, huh? Not very well it seems!!
I privately messaged Colm Howard-Lloyd at London Pride yesterday about these checks:
“I noticed you said you had checked them out and i was just wondering how? Do you know these guys or know people that know them. Would like to know your thoughts.”
To which Colm replied:
“Yes they are getting some critism from the left. This isn’t entirely suprising and indeed is the same people who have criticized us in the past – only when we ignored them did they go away.
I checked out the people involved quite carefully. Checked them against know extremist lists, verified where they worked, checked who registered their domains etc. This really is a group of friends who wanted to make a difference!”
I messaged Colm back:
“Thanks for getting back to me and it’s good to hear that you have checked them out thoroughly. Would be nice to see them sign up to Tower Hamlets “No Place for Hate Campaign” which is run by the council.”
To which Colm replied:
“It would although they aren’t really interested in setting themselves up as an organization – they just want to put on a pride march. Who has signed this pledge already? I can’t find much information about it. It seems to be very worthy but rather toothless.
I’d also personally be very wary about any TH council initiative – they dont have a great reputation on hate crime just now and are trying to massage the reporting figures.”
The initiative has been running since 2008, 17-24-30 signed up when we started working in Tower Hamlets, leading up to last year’s anniversary of the Brick Lane bomb. Although we are an inclussive non-politcal organisation, I thought that it was important that we work with the local authorities in the area.
It’s simply a public condemnation of hate. Which I would have thought most people would be willing to sign up to and would be a good thing to promote.
The organisers don’t have to sign up as an organisation as the scheme is open to both individuals and organisations. So each could sign in a personal capacity, it might also alleviate some of the tensions?
If they are not interested in setting themselves up as an organisation – what happens if things go wrong? would that leave Pride London and other supporting organisations at risk? they could be leaving themselves open to all sorts of claims.
No To Hate – fantastic. So where is the apology from East London Mosque then?
If LBTH can’t even ask for that, then the No To Hate isn’t worth the paper it is written on. (what is ‘Faith Hate’? does that mean you get arrested for reading The God Delusion on the Number 25 bus?)
I think something has to be done at government level – preachers should be vetted and should require a Visa. I want to see that list of would-be murderers arrested.
I suppose this means we’ll now forget about homophobia and focus on the more burning issues of gay imperialism and homonationalism.
Excellent then, now it should be able to go ahead without any further hate accusations. Time to campaign against ALL homophobes.
get real Jock, there is no way the event can go ahead now. It is holed beneath the watermark, which is a very great shame .
A watermark appears on paper, I believe you mean *waterline*, a nautical term. Sorry, I can’t take anyone seriously who can’t even get such a basic phrase right. Prides have been beset by far worse scandals than this in the past. I hope they go ahead and ignore the Islamic-led smear campaigns.
Islamic groups do NOT want this event to go ahead because they know it will serve as a focal point, highlighting the homophobia and hatred prevalent in their community. They are making mountains out of mole-hills in order to discredit this much-needed event and naive people like you are falling for their carefully disguised hate.
SUPPORT THE EAST END PRIDE, pride for all and no more homophobia.
you can’t take me seriously? really? Frankly I can’t take an event like this seriously when it has repeatedly demonstrated that it is a vehicle of the far right.
Note, the supposed “smear” campaigns are actually legitimate fears being raised by a LOT of local groups including the RMT, which having nothing whatever to do with islam.
The only way I could see East End Pride possibly surviving this and having the confidence of local gay people is if the entire organising committee be dismissed and the event run instead by Pride London.
RMT another front for the SWP, a group that puts gay rights and all other human rights against behind its campaign for Stalinist socialism.
Groups like Imaan have stood with groups that have called for the execution of gay people. How on earth can such a group be considered a gay rights group.
No, what we have seen is ONE MAN with a past connection to the EDL BEFORE it was overrun by racist thugs. Very different.
99% of this “evidence” is outright fabricated or blown out of all proportion by groups violently opposed to this pride because they are afraid of it, afraid that it will shine the harsh light of truth on the hate spread by certain groups.
This smear campaign is led by homophobes and self-loathing gays who can’t accept someone else having the balls to do something they are scared to do. Good to know you will side with those who would KILL US rather than stand by your family. You have shown your true colours.
Where would we have been as a community if those first Gay Liberation marches had instead thought about all those homophobes it may offend while walking the streets and given in on demand?
So let London Pride run this event I don’t care but lets show some backbone.
In what way has it repeatedly demonstrated it was vehicle of the far right? apart form this story there’s little else – just speculation and heresay. That’s not a basis to condem the entire event.
Funny isn’t it….
Someone puts up homophobic posters that go against the law and the LGBT community instead of standing up to it fold in on itself.
That is not progress. The homophobe wins.
@Mendirin..What are you trying to say…Hearsay or heresy ? Two completely different words. Rather than agitating for far right facist groups, I suggest you go back to school and learn the basics of the English language which you are sorely lacking. Mind you you are not alone in this regard amongst most of the Facist posters on this thread. Seems to be an education problem with a lot of them. Should have spent more time in school methinks
Well, well well…seems like i was right all along, doesn’t it Jockstrapp? will you do the right thing and resign too?
So it does appear that allegations of an EDL connection were true then after all.
I’d just like to say that it is difficult to stand up and apologise sometimes when you’re got it wrong, so all credit to those on here who have been big enough to say sorry for launching often persoanlised attacks against those who it now seems knew a little bit more about what was going on behind the scenes.
Oops, sorry, just read the comments again, and no one has has the b@lls to.
The evidence is not fabricated!
Muslim LGBT groups DO want a pride event . . . look at Imaan and Safra’s websites!
Really? When did they suggest it? After this one was organised that’s when and they will conveniently forget it after this pride has happened. In the meantime homophobia will continue to be preached at the East London Mosque, I know they have condemned the stickers but that condemnation lacks sincerity.
Its worrying how the EDL is trying to infiltrate pink politics in general.
The EDL will never be able to make itself respectable by covering its bigotry behind the rainbow flag.
No EDL in the LGBTQQI
When the muslim religion states that they welcome and accept and cherish the LGBT community and when the imams instruct their followers never to engage in homophobia, then the EDL will not have any way of infiltrating pink politics.
The reality is that islam is grossly homophobic. That needs to be actioned and addessed irrespective of where the EDL is.
The reality is that many people are grossly homophobic regardless of their religion. The reality is that there are many gay muslims who are the ones who suffer most with this kind of devision. Also, the reality is that there is no evidence to suggest that a confrontational event such as EEGP, what with the anti-islamic overtones it now has (whether or not this was intended by the organisers), will sucseed in bringing comunities together and ending prejudice against all.
Pride is not all about having a nice and pretty dialogue, it is also a show of strength, saying that we are citizens of this country and we should feel free to walk the streets and express ourselves without fear of violence or hate.
If the EDL was really concerned about LGBT issues they would stand up to the Christian bigots who peruse through the courts the right to discriminate against LGBT people.
In day to day life Muslims do not make any issue about my sexuality or gender identity. I cant say Christian do the same.
Muslims a generally polite and respectful of me, all the abuse I have experienced has come from those of the Christian faith.
Muslims may disagree with us a LGBT people, but they tend to keep that disagreement to themselves.
Apart from of course the homophobic heavies of the mayor of tower hamlets, and those preachers who called for the execution of gays in the east london mosque.
I have always stood against christian homophobia, and I always will. But i will also stand against any form of homophobia whomever it is spread by!
Noone said having a dialouge is “nice” or “pretty”, it’s bloody hard work and it takes years of work and dedication to bridge gaps between communities. Work that many groups have bee involved with for decades, and which could be wiped out in a weekend by this event.
Asserting yourself, and saying ‘we’re here, get used to it’ – is always going to be confrontational, and for murderous thugs who regard our very existence as obnoxious, always offensive. There is nothing anti-islamic about the EEGP imagery, website or statements. Please provide examples instead of hot air.
I would like to refer you to a statement that has been added to the East End Gay Pride facebook page.
The team here at East End Gay Pride would like to announce that they have accepted the resignation of Raymond Berry from the EEGP team.
It has come to light that Raymond has previously had dealings with the English Defence League, however he has assured us that he is no longer any part of the EDL group. He also stated that he has previously attended march’s organised by the EDL and UAF, however he found both organisations too extreme for his beliefs. None of this information was previously disclosed to the rest of the East End Gay Pride team, until it came to light late yesterday evening.
The remaining members of the East End Gay Pride would like to state for the record that we do not support or condone anything that the EDL stand for.
The team here at East End Gay Pride are going to carry on with organising East End Gay Pride without Raymond and working with the community to try and end ALL homophobia and prejudice within our community. We are all working with our supporting organ
See Imaan’s press (on their homepage) release regarding the evidence against Raymond:
And I think being a founder of the EDL (by his own admission) is a *bit* more serious than admitting to having previous dealings…. just saying….
I’m an organiser of the EDL LGBT Division, and can confirm that we had no discussions with anyone connected with EEGP. But EDL has no concerns that EEGP does not support EDL.
We hope that gay and straight muslims will come together with everyone else at EEGP. Meanwhile, we at the EDL have a bigger battle to fight than the manifestation of islamic homophobia plastered across England.
Homophobia is wrong in all its forms. And racism is wrong in all its forms. Homophobes and racists are ignorant bigots who should know better.
If muslims and gay people can unite over the issue of gay pride, it gives me a lot of hope for a better future.
EDL supporter, you neglected to mention that fascist extremism is also wrong in all its forms.
SMC how do you define fascist extremism in a political, social and religious context at present in England? And please BE INCLUSIVE!
I’m guessing you’d probably be better qualified than me to define it
@Paulo Silva…. I’m guessing you will get your answer to that question on April 2nd. And i’m also guessing it will be inclusive. I can’t wait to see you get your nasty facist ar*e well and truly kicked.
Fascism is totally wrong. Happy now?
And as the Police Domestic Extremism Unit said: “EDL are not a far-right organisation”.
Don’t blame me for your own ignorance.
@edl supp. Any group who practice the facist salute and whose members are covered with swastikas and n*zi tatoos can hardly be described as “not a far right organisation”. Someone needs to investigate the officer or officers from PDEU who made this determination.
Remind me what the EDL was before it was overrun by racist thugs. Very different, someone said. How exactly? If EDL was all about retaining the British/English nature of England, was that not racist essentially?
@ Dan Filson. …if you really knew the history of your country you would realise that your premise about the nature of England has never been static as you seem to assume.Starting with the Romans, say, it has been one long mixing pot down the centuries and a few tatooed facist thugs will not stop that, try as you might.
Erm just a thought, but isn’t your clear hatred of the British an example of your Xenophobia and prejuduce.
@Jock S Trap. Your perception of my “hatred” of the British is entirely false. I hate no-one, well with the exception of far right racist, homophobic facist groups such as the EDL & BNP. I do however, have have huge political differences with the British ruling class , who have occupied part of my country for the last 90 years and who imprisioned and murdered Irish nationalists for decades without tria simply because they demanded basic human rights and civil rightsl. I will not delve further into the Irish “question” here, as im sure that you, as an avowed British nationalist, are already well aware of all or most of it, and i have no doubt that as such you would support and value my position.
So the information came to light to you yesterday. Yet your website still shows Raymond Berry as part of the team, there is no mention of his resignation under your Latest News and his petty, disingenuous blogs are still in place. Not much drawing a line and moving forward that I can see
Reason for this is that we all have full time jobs and haven’t got access to a computer. He WILL be removed from the website as soon as we get home from work!!
Alan, it seems you have got precious little time for a lot of things. You can apparently post on here, but “we all have full time jobs and haven’t got access to a computer”.
You can post a statement to say you’re dropped Mr Berry, but can’t remove him from your site.
You can all post umpteen messages again denying any links with EDL but you can’t do any checks to make sure what you’re saying is true.
To be honest, go ahead with the day.
No really, it sounds like it will be a great day.
You sound like the sort of people that will have everything covered.
Completely on the ball.
Yeah, really ….
The reason the website was not updated is because it cannot be accessed from a smartphone like these comment threads. I apologise for being in University all day and not being glued to my computer. The website HAS been updated. But it can only be done by me, on my mac, in Bristol. When I’m not studying criminal justice at Univeristy. OK!
@David Byatt, how dare you want to get a degree and not be glued to your computer all day long. Utter disgrace. Far worse than all those apologists for homophobia. :)
Alan you haven’t really covered the issue of your ‘friend’ though and his background. Pinknews reported that a ‘group of friends’ in East London had got together to stage East End Pride. Can you explain how you had no idea that your friend was a founder of the English Defense League and had suffered various trials and tribulations as a result of his extremist views?
When you were all out at weekends scrapping stickers off lamp posts as we are led to believe you were, during the course of conversation did it never arise that he though that Muslims were the spawn of Satan and should have their first born put to death followed by their second and third?
Was there not the slightest clue? Ever?
When the allegations surfaced about connections between your group and the EDL arose, did you not discuss it and think that maybe in order to quell the rumours you should have perhaps checked them out a little?
It just seems so awfully naive of you and your other chums. Blinkered even.
Wow! And that is supposed to be reassuring? Firstly, the 6 have repeatedly been described as a group of friends. Friends usually know what’s going on in each other’s lives you know. Especially if it is stuff as recent as last year. Suddenly, they want to sound like a management board, expelling a ‘member’ who did not ‘disclose’ information. Pathetic attempt to appear oh so innocent!
As sister Mary says, how about showing some balls and apologising for calling all those who raised concerns over EDL association ‘haters’, ‘apologists’ ‘anti-fun brigade’. EEGP organisers will build bridges? Do not make me laugh! You have already burnt so many bridges within the queer community, let alone reaching out!
We are all working with our supporting organisations, including Pride London, to make this event as inclusive and pro-active in combating hate crime of any form.
We would like to draw a line under this and work towards making East End Gay Pride a safe, fun and positive march.
Mark Bourne, David Byatt, Caroline Todd, Alan Jones.
The East End Gay Pride Team.
I’ll be there!!
As will I
And I’m sure the EDL will as well. Recruiting dumb gays who are too stupid to realise they are being used.
Sister you are are dumb stupid bimbo who is been used!
Yes I am Paulo, and if you’re interested its £100 per hour.
To be fair though I don’t think that’s a discussion for here.
I think we’re here to discuss some stupid people that have had the wool pulled over their eyes by people involved with an extremist fascist organisation
Sister, as we have seen from comments on here not only are there gay people with blinkers, some people can be fascist in there own right. In recent years, most of the racism I have experienced has come from gay people.
You are too kind Mary. These are not innocents being used. These are people with prejudice. There is no reason to assume that having a certain set of desires automatically frees you of prejudice and racism.
@SMC…to be honest i am now beginning to think this lot should go ahead with their “pride” demo. I want to see them get their nasty facist heads kicked in . Poetic Justice methinks.
Igorance is bliss, eh?
I’m not there for the EDL though I think Out East are just trying to whip up hysteria. Clearly with some it is working.
I’m there for All LGBT who suffer homophobia and racism. Lets face it those posters were both homophobic and racist so I have every right to protest against it.
your hatred is for ALL to see and note!
Wishing violence on others from the LGBT who wish to protest homophobia.
Count me in.
Good that he has stepped down – past links to groups like those would tar the event. There’s enough drama coming from supposed supporters of gay rights on here and within the community without fanning the flames with stuff like this.
For the cynical nay-sayers – I bet you are the same people who begrudge Brighton Pride applying charges. Yet here comes a TRUE Pride (not some drunken party) and what do you do? Attack it. You people make me despair for the LGBT community.
Excellent comment Phoenix…
I don’t see why the EDL and gay rights are mutually exclusive.
I had at one time considered the EDL a way to go, but unfortunately it got hijacked by the same yobs that dragged the BNP down.
I see nothing wrong in supporting nationalism or attacking the Islamification of this country, but they turned it into another racist platform, which is unacceptable.
The EDL need to root out these people and they might gain some respect and integrity. Until then, they are just another bunch of thugs.
I think the main problem is that there is no evidence for the supposed “islamification” of the country, no evidence that we are in danger of being ruled by sharia law, and therefore no real need for a group like the EDL to exist (unless it’s really about getting rid of those funny darkies of course)
Spanner, the EDL was started by and is still run by those same BNP yobs – and it’s financed by a man who has called for a ‘final solution’ regarding anyone who stands against the EDL, Muslim or otherwise. It’s an organisation founded on hate and always has been.
Your comments suggest islamification of this country was going on and that the EDL was, to you, possibly a way of combatting that. What nonsense, not just the second leg of what you say but more importantly the first. There is no Islamification of this country; what you have are people exercising the right to practice their religion. There are those who argue that a part of the Muslim creed is homophobic, that various mullahs are homophobic, and that Islam is in some way by its very nature homophobic. Let’s be clear. So far no Muslim cleric of recognised international standing, so far as I know, has got up to say that homophobia is wholly wrong and Islam should embrace the diversity that includes people being gay. But that does not mean it might not happen soon, and I tend to think it will happen soon. Whether a part of the Muslim creed is homophobic, I don’t know, but it may be, that various mullahus are homophobic (clearly so), that Islam is somehow by its very nature homophobic.
Your comments suggest islamification of this country was going on and that the EDL was, to you, possibly a way of combatting that.
Many people do out of sheer desperation, because no other party is willing to do anything about it. Racist organisations thrive on this kind of vacuum, and its about time the main parties did something about it or these fascist organisations will continue to gain support.
As for no islamification, many would wish to demonstrate otherwise:
This is a real and present danger and you just sticking your fingers in your ears and singing la-la simply makes matters worse. Denialists like you almost as dangerous as they are.
But to continue from my previous post, what is lacking in this analysis is any sense of transparency of evidence or ability to see logic flaws. The fact that some mullahs are homophobic does not make them all homophobic, nor does the fact – if true – that some passages in the Holy Koran are homophobic does not make it so that the whole of Islam is thereby to be condemned.
Hi Dan. The passages generally interpreted as homophobic are those referring to the people of Lot, no doubt you are familiar with the Old Testament story. In the original Arabic text, there is no reference to homosexuality or to sodomy, however, many translators have and commentators have translated the transgression as sodomy.
Similarly, the verses referred to in the homophobic posters are fragments and not complete sentences, needless to say, the fragments are not in the context the posters imply.
Muslims do have every right to practise their religion, just as Christians, Hindus, Buddists etc do. They all have there buildings of choice in which to worship.
However they do Not have the right to force their opinions on anyone else. In this country of which homosexuality has been legal for 44 years a persons right as by birth has to take precedence over a chosen religion.
That means that Every LGBT person in this country is entitled to be able to be themselves Without prejudice. So that when prejudice does arise in a country that homosexuals are legal we have every right to protest against it and enforce the law.
@ jock strap Legal for 44 years but still opposed by far right groups EDL and BNP. Both groups made their opposition clear after recent cases brought against right wing fundi christians , who wanted British Law changed to suit their Abrahamic books of fiction. Fortunately in all cases British law won the day much to the consternation of the far right and all pixie in the sky religious organisations. Their bigotry and homophobia is recorded on these pages for all to see.
and how quick some of you want this event to be shut down, i have to ask myself, why, why do u still want us not to march and show our pride ?
is it again going back to the fact that, you sat on your arses doing nothing, and hate the fact, that your commitment to supporting gay people has been brought into the light?
also can i say again on this link, i also have a worry, about a workers organisation, breeching confidentialty? surely this should be addressed also
East End Gay Pride should absolutely go ahead.
It is essential that there is a show of strength for the gay community in the face of such vile islamic homophobia.
(I hope no-one is stupid enough to claim that islam is a religion of peace when it comes to homosexuality).
If you actually looked at the people and groups who are objecting to this, you would notice that they are far from “sitting on their arses doing nothing”.
How safe is anyone going to be at a public event run by these people?
One of the organisers in bed with fascists.
Completely alienating much of the community through which they will be marching.
Unable and unwilling to accept their mistakes.
The icing on the cake would be one emptying the bank account and running off with the cash
Nothing, when it comes to public marches, is wholly safe, hence the usefulness of intelligent and well-managed stewarding. But it does not follow that the march should not proceed. If I get a sniff of EDL presence, I’ll be off – I am not covering for what I consider a racist and proto-fascist organisation (and the uttered belief that there is going on an Islamification of Britain is one item of evidence that this is a racist and proto-fascist organisation)
Totally agree with that.
Hang on, how come this guy has to resign yet East end Mosque which has hosted speakers who urge the murder of gay people is allowed to continue.
People are allowed to say they want us dead, we are not allowed to do anything back.
This Imaan group are a disgrace. They are gay uncle toms pure and simple. They say the condemn homophobia, yet they share a stage with the east london mosque. Rank hypocrisy.
The say the oppose homophobia yet they share a stge with the mayor of tower hamlets and his homophobic heavies, rank hypocrisy.
Double standards of course.
Islamic homophobia is tolerated And any criticism of that moronic cult is deemed as racist.
see my note to ferguson below……I think I’m going to start selling dictionaries in my corner shop!!
@Abdul Azeem…. You would be wasting your time.To use a dictionary one firstly needs to be able to read and secondly have the intelligence to understand what it is one is reading. Most or all of the racist facist thugs and their apologists on this thread have neither ability. Most of them don’t even have the basics of the English language.
Paddy, once again reductio ad hitlerum
@ scott …Thats rich coming from an arch facist like you……
@Paddy – wow double reductio ad hitlerum + an ad hominem attack.
Its hypocrisy to say you are gay and muslim. And i wonder what a dossier of imman’s members would reveal, their links with islamofacist activities. This imman do not care about the lgbt community , they are more obsessed with appeasing muslim homophobes, possibly because they are terrified what reaction they will be delivered from their communities if they don’t.
I personally know members of imaan and to call them islamofascists is stunningly laughable. Maybe instead of making ill informed massively ignorant statements you should try to meet them and find out what they are really about.
I’m a founding member of Imaan. You are welcome to look at my CV, I promise you will not find any affiliations to Islamic EDL equivalents. I have been fighting for LGBT rights for 13 years now and have had to face homophobia within the Muslim community as well as Islamophobia within the LBGT community. However what keeps us going is that every time we stand up and dare to talk one more person understands us and their phobia disappears.
I request you don’t tar all Muslims with the homophobe brush as I promise I don’t tar all LGBTQI with the racist islamophobe brush. Give up your politics of hate and take on what pride is really about. Love!
Peace to all.
thank you Abdul.
Why do you associate yourself with east london mosque then? Why do you associate yourself with the tower hamlets mayor (you being imaan, not you personally).
I agree it is stupid to say all muslims are homophobes. But it is equally ridiculous to say that some people do not interpret islam in a way that is homophobic.
Also, I was raised in the cult of catholicism, i think all religions (except the quakers and shinto) are cults.
We need to say to those who use their religion to justify hate that this is not acceptable. I dont care what religion that is, the message is the same, your belief does not give you the right to call for us to be killed.
I’m sure Imaan can answer for themselves, but I would guess that their remit means they maintain open dialogue with a lot of groups that do not hold the most positive views about us. That in the end is the only way to change the world – through dialogue – and I applaud them for it. (I am a Quaker by the way)
Douglas, So why do you oppose a gay pride even debating with the non muslim far right?
People on here are basically saying it is ok to debate with the muslim far right, but not ok to debate with non muslim far right.
This is hypocrisy. Pure and simple.
Chamberlain believed in dialogue too, all the way to Dunkirk.
The acid test here is – can you look Oliver Helmsley’s brother in the eye and say you are doing the right thing?
The kind of dialogue to have with that appalling mosque, that has ignited hatred against LGBTs is to demand an apology. Not sweep the Spot The Fag contests and the like under the carpet.
Why won’t you ask for an apology?
SO what DID Out East and Rainbow Hamlets do about the ‘Spot The Fag’ contest, or were they ‘just a bit of homophobic fun’?
How do you as a gay person reconcile your conscience with your religion ? which is evidently homophobic. Do you feel a complete hypocrite or are you attempting to suggest that koran/hadith scriptures are open to individual interpretation? If this is the case and you can select favourable aspects of a religion to suit your individual desires, that would make you an apostate and not a true follower of the religion you proclaim to represent. This is also true of certain lgbt christians. Also why has your group being associated with east london mosque , considering the espousal of hate and homophobia from certain speakers there? a direct contradiction to your ” fighting” for lgbt equality. It seems lgbt equality is secondary on your agenda to the wants of other communities. And follow your advice and give up dogma of hate.
If you are truly interested in this conversation then I invite you to come along to our next goup meeting and we will happily discuss. You will also then get an opportunity to face Muslims who are dealing daily with islamophobia and homophobia. Details can be found from our website http://www.imaan.org.uk
I note you have avoided providing an answer .
Rapture, do you really think you have a right to expect me to disown my heritage, change my name and disown my parents based on your ill conceived notions of what identifying as a Muslim means? So now you are reiterating the fundamentalist line and doing their dirty work for them! There have always been various traditions in Islam, my parents are from one (of many) Sufi tradition and no doubt the Taliban would have them stoned for that. As suggested by Abdul, if you want an answer try meeting some Muslims or at least have a look at Imaans website or the Al Fatiha website.
Rapture the answer to your question is the story of a 25 year journey with my spirituality. I don’t have the time and inclination to write my novel here.
Please explain the ‘associated with East London Mosque’ bit. Some of our members pray there, I once went to funeral there. We have never held a meeting in the mosque or given any speeches there. Please can you define ‘associated’.
@ ali I’m astounded that you should suggest that your heritage is entirely islamic. Which incidentally i never insisted you should abandon, that was you attempting perhaps a victim role to garner support. I asked how as a gay person you are reconciled with your belief system? You are the one with negative ideas of those who are less vulnerable to dogma and capable of extending discussion .
@rapture, you really should try and read what is stated and not make massive leaps in your assumptions. I did not say my heritage is entirely Islamic, as stated it is down to me how much of it I take. Your question about reconciling belief is redundant given that it is clear that you have no understanding of Islam and are not prepared to listen to the fact that there are multiple interpretations, hadith for example are categorised in terms of authenticity and importance (or indeed rejected outright by some Muslims) – clearly subjective definitions.
@Abdul hat was very rich coming from you! I went along to the IMMAN talk on islam and homosexuality back in december in a uni in central London where you stated your desire for a caliphate to return (meaning an islamic imperialism) and when the islamist young men in the room which were the majority confronted you and read passages on the koran condemning homosexuality you evaded the questions and did not confronted the muslim homophobes, i was disgusted!
You are no different then Mr Berry you so happily exposed, he had contact with the EDL you hang out with islamo-fascists!
Interesting – when was this, where? The ugly truth seeps out like radioactive waste…
I wasn’t talking about islamic imperilaism but a way to unite Muslims to take Islam forward into the modern world. The Taliban have hijacked Islam and with an elected caliph there would be a lot more power in his/her words that suicide bombings are murderous acts of violence which will get nobody into heaven. Islamic politics are way to complex to summarise in this thread and to pick one of my statements out of context shows a complete lack of understanding (or my ability to explain) of such.
I referred the ‘islamist’ young guy to 3 scholars (in America) who are experts in classical Arabic to have a scholarly debate with. I’m not an Islamic scholar but an LGBT activist. I did in my talk give my interpretation of the story of the prophet Lot which is so often used as evidence that homosexuality is wrong. FYI it does not state anywhere in the Quoran that being gay is forbidden and the prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) never punished anybody for being gay.
Abdul, it’s your word on homosexuality, versus that of the Islamic Sharia Council, whom you think are just fantastic.
here is what they think of gays and lesbians:
Adrian, I’ve never heard of the Sharia council till I clicked on your link. Obviously you must have been misinformed if you thought that i think they are fantastic. As I have said in previous posts Islamic Politics and Scholarly debates are so much more complex than can possibly be explained on this thread. I appreciate your concern and understand the fear that you have based on your ignorance of Islam. This is the exact reason why Imaan exists so that we too as an LGBTQI community can enter the conversation of mainstream Islam with an understanding of the complexities of the debate.
If you are truly interested in Islam and what it says on homosexuality then come and talk to some homosexual muslims and find out for yourself. To get details of our next meeting please check out our website http://www.imaan.org.uk
very revealing, thanks for that information. I’m beginning to suspect Al taqiqqa from some of the comments here.
typing misprint “al taqiyya” .
Abdul, I’ll happily come along
All credit for posting under what is I presume your real name. Pity others do not do so too.
Can you please clarify the comments made by the representative of your organisation at the talk “Islam and Homosexuality” at London University, where he said (completely unprompted) that he would welcome the re-establishment of the caliphate (exactly the same policy of Hizb ut Tahrir).
He was challenged on this by a gay man in the audience. Your representative was also challenged when he said “There is far more islamophobia in the gay world than there is homophobia amongst muslims”.
We have two witnesses to this exchange.
Please explain to us why Imaan supports the re-creation of the Caliphate. Do you not know that Hizb ut Tahrir’s says that when the Caliphate is re-established, everyone (including non-muslims) will be governed by sharia law, and homosexuals will be executed. Why would that seem like an appealing idea to an official representative of Imaan?
So are you suggesting that the Bible has warm fuzzy accepting messages for homosexuals? Or the Torah? Or the Bhagvat Gita/Manus laws? Or maybe we will find them in the book of the Jedi??? Your prejudice is so transparent that it is not even funny!
The Bible says very little on the subject.
Unfortunately, it’s followers do and make their own preconceived ideas as to what they think it says.
Don’t blame the good book, blame the idiots that read into it what they want.
No I wouldnt say this. That is why I criticise all people who take their religion literally.
Why do you oppose such an approach?
I think it’s called “working with communities in order to try and build tolerance and understanding on all sides”
so its ok to work with groups who say they want to kill gays, but not ok to work with the EDL (who I disagree with before you start) who say they want to resist radical islam.
That is the type of rank hypocrisy that fuels far right groups.
How can you compare working with the islamic community to working with EDL? Muslims are a diverse communitiy with a huge history and culture (as well as something that many people are born into), whereas the EDL are a group set up with the purpose of spreading hatred and bigotry.
I can only echo those comments kris, although I think you’ll struggle to make much headway with Scott
Actually do not try and misconstrue what I said. I was asking why it is OK to share a stage with right wing muslims such as the east london mosque that has hosted speakers calling for the execution of gays, yet it is not ok to share a platform with the EDL. You have not answered this.
kris, how can you compare the whole of the muslim community to groups who say they want to kill gays? it is what you have just done. Pretty bigoted thing to say, if you ask me.
Thanks to organizations like Imann and Outeast this has been uncovered. PRIDE London should be ashamed of themselves.
Mr. Berry was THE FOUNDING MEMBER of the group. Which doesnt seem to be reported.
RUBBISH. Imaan shares a stage with a homophobic mayor and the homophobic east london mosque, yet it dares accuse others of extremism. They are hypocrites who are willing to stab gay people in the back.
when did Imaan share a stage with the East London Mosque or the Mayor?
Can’t believe anyone would congratulate Imaan, they’re one of the biggest bunch of hypocrites around, denouncing “anti-muslim” gays yet ignoring those within their own community who call for gays to be killed.
All the more proof that 99% of this “evidence” is nothing but a smear campaign aimed at disrupting an event which they KNOW will galvanize public opinion against the Islamic communities hatred and homophobia.
Ignore the homophobic nay-sayers (yes, even those within the GLBT community, self-hating losers the lot of them) and support this local pride!
Phoenix have you actually met anybody from Imaan? We have been working hard for the last 13 years dealing with Homophobia within the Muslim community however unfortunately I have had to deal with way MORE Islamophobia from the queer community! Can you please let Imaan get on with the mammoth task we have ahead of us! The more energy we spend on dealing with Islamophobia the less we spend on Homophobia!
So, Abdul (“I welcome the caliphate”) Azeem, what is stopping your campaign to educate the murderously homophobic muslims?? You didn’t persuade ONE of the many bearded fundamentalists at your talk in December 2010, did you? You ran from the room at the end saying “we have a movie to go to”.
You’ve got all the gay organisations and the gay media on your side, so don’t bang on about “oh, the islamophobia”. There are no gangs of queers going round stabbing muslims, the way there are gangs of muslims attacking homos. There are no gangs of queers protesting outside of mosques, the way your “muslim brothers” protested at Derby & Nottingham gay pride in 2010. No “muslims get out” stickers…
The mammoth task you face is an impossible one. I saw how the “moderate” muslims in your audience just looked around pleadingly at the fundamentalists. You basically begged the fundamentalists to take pity on gay people. And as the fundamentalists showed you, they are pitiless.
you know, i really do think their statement has got the mr berry was the founder of the edl wrong, am sure that it was someone else, who founded it, am sure someone will know who that was.
Robert, also i think u will find that support for the march is still very much so, unless u read something the rest of us missed
This was Berry’s own admission apparently….
i think u will find, that it has come from pages seen by someone, so can we say, that is 100pc correct John? How many times have we seen, what we want to see. I am not saying the article is wrong, what I am pointing out, it states, that it saw papers. And that I have a concern that if, it was union papers, then why the hell, were they showing them to anyone !!! thats my point, sorry if it didnt come across as such
Was it not part of a statement he made to the RMT or something?
Not as far as I can see having read the statement. But that is largely irrelevant.What is relevant is that he had EDL associations and has resigned because of those associations. If there is any evidence against the other five let’s have it.
The EDL was founded by self-confessed football hooligans. But from the start they made it clear that they were opposed to homophobia.
“So the EDL protest group stands in defence of homosexuals within Britain. Most people have homosexual friends or know of people who have family members who are homosexual, the same as with people of different skin colour to their own. This is what a civilized society in the 21st Century is all about.”
That’s from a September 2009 interview with Paul Ray.
Raymond Berry is NOTHING to do with the EDL, not even the Gay Division. He had a brief involvement for a few months, but left thinking it was too aggressive for him, and as far as I know has had no contact with anyone in EDL for 6 months.
But the disgusting behaviour of Imaan has actually put Mr. Berry’s life in danger. Imaan have shown they would sacrifice the life of a gay man in order to protect homophobic muslims from criticism.
EDL was founded by Paul Ray and Tommy Robinson. Paul Ray “found god” and started to claim to be a genuine crusader. He left the country for his own protection, and since then EDL has had 1 leader, Tommy.
Despite all the allegations of violence and thuggishness about the EDL, THERE ARE NO MUSLIMS LIVING UNDER OSMAN NOTICES (i.e. likelihood of imminent assassination), yet Tommy Robinson and Paul Ray both had Osman notices served on them.
All praise the Religion of Peace.
Forget the smears being led by Islamic groups. It is clear, the islamists of London’s east end, do NOT want to have their institutionalised homophobia highlighted.
Gay people of London need to wake up and start fighting to protect their freedoms, because this dangerous cult of Islam, wants to make it OK to be homophobic.
Ignore the smearing – it is being done because the homophobes are afraid of being shown to the public for what they are.
Islam is not a cult. It is religion which is as diverse as the people that live on this planet. I suggest you open the dictionary and look up the meaning of the word cult.
It is not OK to be homophobic wether you are a Muslim or Non-Muslim. For the record I’m a Gay Muslim.
We (Imaan) is not smearing (we have solid evidence which if it is denied we will present to the press).
I’m all for Pride as long it represents the community it is serving, and I include myself in that as I have attended a pride march (usually marching) every year for the last 15 years!
I’ve always wondered how something stops being a cult and becomes a religion. Either way, I regard all the Abrahamic faiths as cults.
One man having a past with a group BEFORE it became associated with racism is not “evidence” against all the organisers – it’s fear mongering by those afraid that this event will do what it aims – that is, highlight the rampant homophobia present in the majority of the Islamic community and to rightfully say “this is unacceptable”.
The only ones opposed to this are the self-hating gays and homophobes.
We have evidence against one organiser.
There is rampant homophobia present in many religious communities including christianity judaism and hinduism. Homophobioa is unaccaeptable from anybody whatever their religious background.
I’m opposed to marching with somebody who has any associations with extreme fundamentalist groups such as the EDL or the Taliban. I’m not a self-hating gay or homophobe. I’m out and proud and love queers (especially the boyz ;o)
but yet your organisation associates itself with the mayor of tower hamlets and the east end mosque?
The Police Domestic Extremism Unit (with 100 officers) investigated EDL last year and concluded that EDL is not a far-right extremist organisation.
I don’t expect you lot to realise this since the media (apart from The Morning Star) didn’t bother to publicise the Police’s opinion of EDL. In fact, some police forces (e.g. Lancashire) have said that it is the UAF that causes the violence at EDL demos.
It’s a travesty how the organisers of this pride event are being hounded and bullied by facist elements.
“It is clear, the islamists of London’s east end, do NOT want to have their institutionalised homophobia highlighted.” Far from it being clear, the opposite may be the case, namely they – Islamists – are happy to be the spokesmen for homophobia.
Scott please explain our associations? The fact that we as a gay muslim group are pleased that they have condemned the homophobic stickers does not mean we are now associated with them and every speaker that has ever given a sermon there!
Double standards and all that blah blah blah.
Raymond Berry should have stood his ground and continued with his efforts for this march.
I an getting totally fed up with ethnic groups in this country ( who really do hate gays by the way) and its the bleedin liberals that allow these groups to sput their filth against us.
It is sad though that raymond has had to resign his position just beacsue his politacl beliefs, and to be honest many LGBT people do support the same beliefs as it is the ethnic groups who are totally agsiant gays and you all know that.
Stop supporting groups, esp ethnic minority groups,who are agsisnt LGBT People and stop walking about with blinkers on…..really a lot of LGBT folk need to wake up and smell the coffee sometimes
I’m an ethnic LGBT person and I know over a thousand ethnic people who don’t hate gays!
I would appreciate some facts to your sweeping statements! As a British born and bred LGBT person it is my human right to be treated equally in the UK. Just because I don’t have white skin doesn’t mean you can make statements like this!
If you wonder how Islamic radicalistion is formed read the statement below and see if you can recognise it from above!
‘To be honest i’m getting totally fed up with ignorant white people in this country (who really do hate ethnics by the way) and its the bleedin liberals that allow these groups to sput (sic) their filth against us.’
Well, it’s a good job all us white folk are around to put those horrible homophobic darkies in their place!
That was sarcasm by the way
why do you assume that anyone who believes all homophobia should be challenged is white?
I believe that anyone who says all ethnic groups are homophobic is a bigoted moron.
He said that all ethnic minorities are homophobic. If he’s in fact not white, then by his own logic he must also be homophobic.
Scott why do you ‘slightly’ misunderstand every comment on here, when it disagrees with your position?
Hey you closeted gay fascists! – Not all gays share the same political beliefs -
However, we are evolved and as such
we respect others peoples right to believe in what they want – and to tolerate those whose beliefs we abhor!
Incase you’re not aware the LGBT are NOT a political party – so lets stop bullying each other to ‘toe a party line’ -you self-righteous arses!
I just wish they had the balls admit it then We could all move on
I would hope all LGTQQI people share a disgust at fascist organisation trying to manipulate our cause to serve the fascist agenda.
The EDL do not stand up against the near monthly attempts by Christian extremists to give themselves the right to discriminate against us.
Indeed the EDL have a Christian agenda, they want to make this a Christian country.
I’ve asked the question before but just got abuse from the facists and no answer. How did the EDL react to the judgement against the homophobic xtian Johns’s.It would be very interesting to know that if anyone knows please post.
I think the silence says it all…. there was no response! Not event form their LGBT Division!
queer.com lying again. There was a response to that question.
How many fascist fundamentalists in the Asian community? Step forward please. Or will that be a march of several million?
Busted Hah! Gay men get murdered a lot and nothing happens even when those bstards got done for manslaughter not murder, even when olly got paralysed nothing. A few posters up and a freaking march. This has nothing to do with anti gay people it’s just coincidence
All the LGBT murder I can think of in the UK are perpetrated by white and black people.
Can anyone think of the last LGBT murder committed by an Asian or a Muslim?
Dosent matter what skin colour they had. My point is that there are more important issues we should be addressing at london pride too
Sorry James, the comment was meant for the post above
There’s a depressing amount of ignorance here. Until around 40 years ago, homophobia was entrenched in the UK, and homosexual acts were illegal. It was voices from within the UK that gradually changed things- yet homophobia still exists among many whose roots are in the UK. Why are so many people berating Imaan for trying to do good. They are attempting to change people’s attitudes- which incidentally, have far more to do with culture and upbringing than religious belief.
Such a shame that something so positive had to be dragged down by this.
Imaan seems to be getting credit for wanting to debate with those who say we should be killed. People seem to think such an approach is a good thing.
- Should we do the same with the BNP? Many BNP people think homosexuality is evil, should we engage in a constructive dialogue with them? Should we not march in areas where a minority of BNP people hate us?
This rank hypocrisy fuels the far right. We March against the BNP and we should march against the minority of muslims who think it is ok to say gays should be killed.
Also before I get called racist, I also attended a protest against christian voice for exactly the same reason. the WHITE christian man called for the execution of gays so we protested. We did not debate. We did not pander or be polite, we showed strength.
Scott, you should maybe show them some of your posting on here and see if they still want to be your friends
see if who wants to be my friends?
“I have two friends who Ive known since infant school who are both Muslim. In over 20 years of knowing them …..”
Apologies reply posted in the wrong place.
Surely though you’ve not forgotten about those two dear Muslim friends you’ve known for over 20 years (apparently)
well no apparently about it, we were all in the same reception class, and it was quite memorable as they were the first non white people I had ever seen in person.
You seem intent on misconstruing what im saying, trying to paint me as a racist, despite the fact that in the post which you quoted I said it was wrong to make generalised comments about muslims, and specifically said I was opposed to right wing muslims, same way I am to right wing xians.
SO how about you actually respond honestly instead of lying.
Scott, should be any lie I have told
oops ‘show me’
you attempt to characterise me as a racist, despite the fact I distinctly said I was opposing a particular interpretation of islam. How on earth is that racist?
This is what we’re up against. The continuing message of a paedophilic, murderous narcissist.
see this type of comment doesnt help the debate.
Im pro the EEGP, but im also against those who wish to cast muslims as murderous pedophiles. THis is a ridiculous thing to say.
The problem is not a religion, but the fact that people interpret it in a particular way.
It’s only ever interpreted one way. Divide, conquer, destroy.
Well i personally know that is not true. While I do not claim to know many muslim people, I have two friends who Ive known since infant school who are both Muslim. In over 20 years of knowing them I have never seen them want anything more than to live a good life. The dad of one of my friends runs a newsagents for an almost entirely white population, we goes down the pub (doesnt drink himself but goes down anyway) with all the other dad’s.
Either they are hiding a conspiracy of epic proportions or you are deluded.
I must be deluded.
well that wasnt the response I was expecting!
@Scott You might want forget about being Pro-EEGP…
In fact Immigrunt is probably one of them.
More info to come out about EEGP in the next few day, plenty of proof that they are all connected to the right.
whether it is the east parade or not every side of towns and states and cities and countries should always celebraate its rainbow parades, period, you are all rainbown people anyway a rainbown of many colors, human rights, is honor and civil rights is an honor, equal right not only is and honor its a right that is simply right to. you cannot pose as a good kind person and a christian whose real definition is a kind fair, loving soul walking in peace and charity , with all, and be a bigot of hate , the hippocrites, people should know better , you dont need a degree to tell you to treat other fairly and right. just at the republican bigots and the evils they have been found in in their private lives, while being a bigot trying to harm others many of them pedephiles, and found having sex with men insecrecy while marching in hate groups in the senate look at the biggots and news in the hate religions the evils they have found in these monsters , ted hagard , senator craig , newt gingric
Not sure whether I should be surprised that hatemongers are still posting or happy that there are fewer of them in light of these revelations.
I find it quite ironic some people have tried to absolve the EEGP organisers and even Berry. This was billed as 6 friends organising a pride event… did these friends really not know Berry and his affiliations? Are we going to be that shocked if more of them have right wing affiliations?
It disgusts me that some the few remaining apologists for bigotry and the out and out bigots continue to regurgitate this bile against Asians and/or Muslims, the great conspiracy to islamise the UK…. the only insidious conspiracy which is clear for any open minded person to see is lengths the far right will go to pit us against other minority groups and to subvert our fight for equality.
It might be a good idea to keep things in perspective.
All we know is that one of the organisers has had links with EDL. There is absolutely no evidence that any of the others have had any dealings with it.
To insinuate, as queer.com does, that EEGP is a far-right conspiracy and that those not demanding an immediate ban on it are apologists of bigots is just silly.
I think the point that was being made was that if in fact it was six ‘friends’ organising this, wouldn’t friends generally know if one of their mates was affiliated to a far right organisation?
Personally I’m fairly clear that none of my mates are in the Klu Klux Klan or the Black Panthers.
Thank you for clarifying Sister, I didn’t think my post was that cryptic. :-)
Guilt by association has always been the weapon of choice for those who’ve run out of arguments.
Do you have anything positive to add or just moan? This was the spokes person for the event, see the interview with him on Pinknews…. if the poster boy has strong right wing connections, would it be that much of a surprise if the other “friends” had similar attitudes?
No, I don’t have anything positive to add, because for you positive means judging people without any evidence and tarring them by association.
Furthermore, I think it is rather worrying that you view the basic principles of any credible justice system — like treating people innocent until proven guilty — as moaning. Worrying, and telling.
Erm, yes there is proof… and more coming.
You wait, and then apologise.
Can they explain how they missed the fact that they friend was the founder of a fascist organisation? I would really like to hear from them on this.
Out at weekends together removing the anti gay stickers.
Gathered round of an evening planning the event?
All friends together living in the local area?
Did nothing ever come up in conversation?
People with extremist views generally struggle to keep them covered up.
I would like an explanation of how these friends didn’t realise one of the group had the connections with the EDL he did.
Stuff the ‘guilt by association’. It can be cleared up very easily with some honest and frank answers.
Well done mate. Nice bit of digging!!!
Care to comment get real?
I think you have forgotten one of the cornerstones of any credible system of justice — people are innocent until proven guilty. You seem to proceed from the opposite notion of people being guilty until they prove their innocence.
Not that I’m surprised by that.
No you’re right I would like to see him thrown to the mercy of the criminal justice system but I have to accept the right to freedom of association and speech we all enjoy in this country.
Having seen postings a little further down it might now be a little clearer why the rest of the group didn’t ‘notice’
Wow there is a sect of people on here who really wish to misconstrue what I am asking.
I in no way or form believe all muslims are homophobes, I do not have many muslim friends, but I have got two ive known my entire life. They are entirely at ease with me being gay, they couldnt care less. Those who try to paint all muslims in a particular way are bigots. It is a wide and diverse religion, for example one of my friends is sunni and the other is sufi, and they seem to agree on nothing. Islam is the same as any religion it is wide and open to interpretation.
What I was asking is why is it Ok for this Imaan group to share a stage with far right muslim groups such as the east end mosque and the mayor of tower hamlets. Yet it is not ok for EEPG to share a stage with someone who once was in the EDL?
Seriously I would like an answer. I do not hate muslims and I appreciate that there is huge variety in Islam. I do take a stand against the homophobic far right element of it tho. As I do against the far right interpretations of christianity/hinduism/sikhism and Judaism.
However, I am questioning why it is ok for some supposedly gay rights groups to share a platform with those who have called for the execution of gays?
Does no platform only mean no platform to non muslim hatemongers?
Since when is the East London Mosque a far right group? It is an a prominent local religious institution which has different groups vying for power. Your comparison should be with the Church of England or with the Catholic institutions or indeed orthodox Jewish organisations in this country. Don’t LGBT organisations have dialogue and build common ground with other religious institutions?
Secondly, one of the many great things about Pride is that it engages with the wider community to overcome homophobia. Will sharing a platform with a right wing hate group antagonise the local community (Muslim and non-Muslim) as well as the very real danger of event resulting in violence. As stated by others, the far right is trying to infiltrate pink politics which have traditionally been about fighting all forms of hatred.
Well thats my take, would be good for someone from Imaan to respond but they probably gone for Isha prayer :-)
PS getting the East London Mosque to publicly make a statement alongside Imaan, condemning homophobia is a step in the right direction, well done Imaan!
East london mosque has hosted speakers who have called for the execution of gay people. Name me a catholic or cofe church in this country that has done this and I will condemn them as well.
I have protested against catholic churches for saying things far less extreme than calling for the murder of gays. So i dont see why I should act any differently towards any other faith.
Also saying you are against homophobia, then doing homophobic things does not make you a friend of gay people.
The announcement is very recent, we shall have to keep an eye on who they invite to speak and, if need be, protest.
Errrrrr – how about the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury?
I got a lot of problems with both those people, but neither have ever wished death upon anyone
Am glad this news has finally been allowed to come out. Hopefully it means we can enjoy East End Gay Pride for what it should be, which is to celebrate our diversity and send a clear message to any religious bigots AND any anti-Muslims that their attitudes have no place in London, not now, not ever. X
The more we work together, the more this can hopefully be achieved. It is 100% right that Islamic extremists should stop any homophobic vitriol, and the Love Walkabouts that have been happening are an excellent example of this. And it is wr…ong to pussy-foot about and not call a spade a spade, i.e. it would be wrong to not call out and challenge any such wrong behaviour. But it is equally wrong to go off tangent and start bringing into question the whole of a community; in many discussion posts over the last few months, a fair few people have said things along the likes of, ‘that’s the problem when you get too many Muslims’, or ‘they should go back to where they came from’ or ‘stop the Islamification of Europe’…i.e. all wrong and irrelevant! Hopefully the good that will come from all this is that we all recognise the prejudices we all face, and that an attack on one of us is an attack on us all, gays and straights, and religious / spiritual and atheists alike. Love Man, Hate Crime!
I agree with what you are saying. Those who cry in fear of the islamification of Europe are crazy, Muslims are, like every other group in the world, incredibly diverse and the idea that they have some sort of conspiracy to control the world is loopy.
Where i live there are very real and very worrying threats towards muslim people, they are a very small minority and far right groups are stirring up hatred and spreading lies.
However I must ask, how can a gay person share a platform with the east london mosque or the mayor of tower hamlets that have used homophobic attacks on others, and in the case of east london mosque hosted speakers who have preached the execution of gays.
I would not share a platform with stephen greene, and I will not with the east london mosque.
Scott, you are comparing an individual with an institution. How would you suggest making progress with these institutions? Ignore them and hope they go away or engage them?
Same way we make progress with the BNP, we protest and say we are here, and if you dont like it, tough sh*t
It’s good that the truth is coming out about these people and is now totally undeniable.
Stop trying to use us to further your racist agenda.
Being gay and born into a muslim family is probably the most difficult situation in the world. You love your family, they may disagree or agree with your lifestyle, the majority of the muslim community is against it and a few would like to see you dead for it. You seek solace in the gay community, but then you see day after day sweeping statements and the culture, beliefs and family you grew up with pretty much p****d on by the rise of the new right.. and it’s like you are being dragged apart like a ragdoll, being forced to pick a side like your life is some sort of football team. You see the fundamentalist hate preachers on tv calling for your death and it makes you cry. You see your house being attacked by gangs of yobs screaming BNP EDL EDL over and over again and your mother spat on in the street for wearing a headscarf and it makes you cry.
I am gay, I am a muslim. I will not be bullied into choosing a side.
Which is why of course groups like Imaan are so important. They are there for people whether practicing muslim, non-practicing or ex muslim to reconcile themselves in a world which is so hostile to both identies. Please try and put yourself in our shoes.
Well said. All the very best to you.
Good for you to stand firm despite all the very real bullying. You shouldn’t have to choose a side, because there doesn’t need to be an opposition. This isn’t exactly the first time in history that the far right have tried to divide and rule. Let’s all stop them from succeeding.
I can empathise with that , but in my and my partners case , we were assaulted, spat at and homophobicly abused daily by muslim youth.
So that makes it Ok for you to hate all Muslims? By that logic, I should hate all black people (one of them tried to steal my phone once), all white people because six of them beat me up for being a paki….. just start hating everybody…. or is your hatred selective?
who said i hate all muslims , don’t make assumptions on my behalf . Are you trying to censor me from identifying who the perpetrators of the crime against me were? sorry for you but we are not in some theocratic dictatorship and your religion of choice is not above critique or discussion, however much you would like to gag others views. You appear to be trying to play the tired old race card routine except islam is not a race, in case you are confused about that.
Why would a gay muslim possibly want a theocratic dicatorship? I swear muslims are almost like jews now with all these crazy nonsensical conspiracy theories. Gay muslims are for seculurist societies that allow them to be free, but also the ability to practice their faith, what is wrong with that.
@rapture: your hate is apparent and your ill informed use of the term taqiyya demonstrates you are the one trying to gag the few Muslim voices prepared to speak out on this forum. As for not being a theocracy, again on what basis do you think I am even religious? I have had enough of ignorant bigots like you either trying to impose what I should be doing as a Muslim or what I should be rejecting as a gay man!
The race religion discourse has been done to death on other blogs, I suggest you go and read them.
@muslimlad: Having studied in great detail the rise of antisemitism in Europe leading to Hitler’s final solution, there is a frightening parallel in the discourse.
Rapture, do you preach to Liberal Jews in the same way you do to Muslims?
@musclelad23 Are you speaking on behalf of the jewish community? Also i don’t care what religion people want to worship, thats their problem, its same as believing in the easter bunny as far as i’m concerned. If people get completely defensive and incapable of answering how they can compromise their sexuality with religion ,then thats their problem.
@ali , if you think thats hate you must have a very sheltered life. Are you an adherent or quasi adherent of a religion , then you are defined as religious. I am very glad to see your worry for the jewish community regarding ant semitism in europe . Although the greatest anti semitic threat now is directed at the Israeli nation from the middle east.
@Ali Why is it that jews are leaving europe because of anti-semitic violence from muslims?
In 2009 at least 50% of anti-semitic attacks in London were by muslims & arabs:
Jews are leaving Holland in droves because of the attacks by muslims:
Jews are leaving Sweden because of attacks by muslims and socialists:
Jews are fleeing France because of anti-semitic attacks by muslims:
Meanwhile the Jewish Division of the EDL is in DAILY contact with the EDL leadership, and EDL is probably the only non-jewish organisation in Britain that holds demonstrations in SUPPORT of Israel.
So, yes anti-semitic crime in Britain is at appallingly high levels, but muslims are disproportionately the perpetrators of such attacks.
@EDL – you are right that crime stats show that in france, Britain, and the netherlands the majority of anti semitic crime is by muslim youth. However this is not the case in Sweden, where it is still right wing white fascists that beat up jews.
Also – Even if all anti semities were muslim, this would not mean all muslims are anti semites. Its a logical fallacy to declare otherwise.
I’ve been attacked by Asian youth before but your logic is flawed if you blame a community for the acts of individuals and small groups.
At first I was afraid, I was petrified… then I realised that hate crime is not a laugh and needs to be taken seriously. I learnt how to be strong, to build bridges and get along. And so your wrong.
Your only response is to keep on attacking others as you have been attacked yourself, as illustrated by many of your posts. It’s time to deal with the pain and hatred that you feel against those who attacked you and murdered your friend, and move on with your life – don’t fall into the bitter trap of taking your own feelings out on others.
Save your psycho babble for those who ask for it. Are you suggesting its not my right to identify and profile the perpetrators of a hate crime as it may upset your phoney liberal sentiment.
Be careful all you apologists, in a couple of days you might find yourself on the wrong side of this story.
“Imaan will be releasing further material this Thursday to prove links between the remaining organisers of EEGP – who they claim have been entirely unresponsive to dialogue – and nationalist, fascist and anti-muslim groups.”
Caroline Todd is a member of countless pro-army and nationalist groups. David Byatt has already said ‘the EDL support this event’. Raymond Berry (before this story came out) already said that ‘Islamic homophobia’ was the most worrying kind, and has a family member who belonged to a ‘ban the burka’ group. Many of us had this group sussed from the beginning. Imaan has now provided us with the concrete proof, however for some reason certain people still want to dismiss this. LGBT groups in the area and across London have been brilliant and this has strengthened commitment to anti-racism and unity amongst oppressed groups, so in my eyes it’s been a positive experience. Right-wing LGBT members who are more concerned with Muslims than the far-right are few and far between, that much is clear. Tatchell, Johann Hari and others who are always quick to stir up hate need to be aware of all this. People’s patience with their divisiveness and hatemongering is wearing thin.
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So does this mean that there AREN’T pairs of Muslim men walking around the East End pasting up stickers declaring it a “gay-free zone?” I fail to see how someone’s former membership in an anti-religious organization somehow mitigates the foul behavior of the religious themselves.
“We” = Who?
I love you dan! x
I don’t understand. EDL (I’m not a member or supporter), campaigns specifically against Islam as an ideology, due to its general intolerance. What is far right about that? Surely that’s what UAF claims to do, as well as the many that slate Christianity on a regular basis. Are anti-Christians far right also?
Interesting to see some claiming that Muslims keep their intolerance to themselves, while Christians actively seek to discriminate against gays – this has been done in response to an action from gays. How many gay people have tested Islamic services to see if they are discriminated against?
I do understand this blindness – Muslims are over there on the left with gays, so you defend them. A huge mistake IMV – if you really want to kick religious intolerance into the long grass, try kicking it all, not that which is the most tolerant, while sheltering that which is the least.
The EDL is a violent, racist organisation. You can tell this by the fact that it organises violent, racist events at which people are violent and racist.
Yet the Lancashire Constabulary concluded that it was the UAF that was responsible for the violence at EDL demos.
And you can click on the link in my nickname to see the photos of the black and asian “alleged” racists at EDL demos.
Just hold the pride, anyone who shows positivity or negativity in this event is likely to be a minority, and even if they dont want to an individuals actions and opinions can be seen as the front man for the whole minority. If an anti islamic gay was at pride preaching hate, he’d become how outsiders sees the community overally, the same would happen if an anti gay individual was present preaching hate, they could easily be seen as what all muslims are like.
Just hold the event any discrimination in society im more than sure will become visable. Yes there will be conflict but it only shows whats brimming under the surface.
Co-inciding and integrating are two different things and I believe that the U.K as a whole lacks integration, minorities of all sorts co-incide but by no means interact. This is what needs to be addressed.
Despite the fact many on here seem incapable of engaging in any form of adult debate, my opinion remains the same.
EEGP should go ahead, it should be open to all groups that condemn homophobia and other prejudices. Those groups that dont condemn homophobia, or condemn it only in words but encourage it in actions, can in popular essex parlance; “do one”.
also could the supporters of imaan and out east please tell me what the blooming heck terms like homonationalism, and gay imperialism.
Because unless there is a gay army hiding somewhere waiting to invade Chile, these seem like meaningless pointless terms, aimed at dividing and spreading fear, Akin to the daily mails use of the “gay agenda”
Sounds reasonable to me. But opposing Sharia Law, and the separation of church and state is a thought crime now, according to Imaan.
Sorry Scott can’t help you on that one………..never use those terms myself!!!
Adrian…..if you check our website http://www.imaan.org.uk you will find a complete absence on our opinion on thought crime. Please don’t post lies about Imaan it’s not even funny!!!
Well, I am not laughing either. Among your accusations of the EEGP founder – and I agree, EDL membership is a legitimate one – you list his wishing to outlaw Sharia law. Obviously, you list this, because you believe it strengthens your argument to have this person ejected. It’s even mentioned in the story. That, to me, is convicting someone of thought crime. I wish you all the joy in your faith, but if you seek to put Sharia law beyond criticism, or your organisation will look ridiculous. It is by no means extremist to take a stand against it.
A reasonable critique is found here:
Wow so much interest in the various areas of Islam all throughout this comments section. Unfortunately my background is not legal or scholastic but science and activism. I’m going to skip the Sharia law debate however if you are interested in this then please start a new thread in the Imaan forum where one of the 1600 members I’m sure will engage in debate with you.
PS I wish you and others on here would stop assuming that those of us who want to keep church and state separate, and are concerned about fanaticism, are ‘fascists’ (a babyish insult, since fascism was invented and spread by the Catholic Church). Especially as many of us are campaigning to rid the Lords of clerics right now, while the government wants to poison society with every kind of faith at every opportunity.
AdrianT, I promise you. The vast majority of gay muslims do not want a theocracy, they want secularism, the ability to be who they are in a free society. But also the freedom to practice there faith. I follow the Quran only. (most of the dodgy islamic teachings come frome the hadiths, alot unauthentic and written hundreds of years after muhammeds death) The word “shariah” can mean a muslim’s personal law such as praying five times a day, paying to charity, good deeds etc ect also it can be applied to societal law which is where all of the nutcase clerics decide to chop people’s hands off and execute. So when you say “ban shariah” it sounds odd in muslim ears.
The seperation of church and state however is better phrase. A true free society is a secular one that gives people the freedom to believe whatever they want.
So it’s only the Hadiths that contain dodgy things, is it?
How about Sura 9 of the Koran – isn’t that a wee bit dodgy?
“slay the idolators wherever you find them”
Or Sura 5:51
do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends
Or Sura 4:89
They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
Here’s an online reference where you can see the same chapters from 3 different translations:
EDL supporter – that verse is specifically talks about an event that happened in the past tense, in makkah, when muslims were being persecuted and murdered by the “idolators”, so had to fight back. It is not talking about or telling you to do it in the present sense. I laugh so hard every time i see this verse quoted, because you actually need to read the original arabic to understand it, something im guessing you will never be bothered to learn.
musclelad23, you were the one who said you follow the Koran, and the hadiths were dodgy.
The “you need to read it in arabic” argument will not wash. The vast majority of muslims in the world do not only not read arabic, they have not read the koran at all. So they simply follow what they are told.
Muslim fundamentalists (many of whom do speak arabic) use such verses to justify their terrorism throughout the world. And that terrorism includes things like the blasphemy laws in Pakistan, and the 40% of British muslims who want to see apostates executed.
And believe me, I will learn arabic. The fight that lies ahead of us is going to be long and drawn out, and my sincere hope is that the fight will be conducted by debate and evidence, not violence. And whilst I’ve never threatened anyone, I’ve had 3 death threats from muslims. And Tommy Robinson is living under an Osman warning.
Just a question, does Imaan, the gay mozlem group have a branch in Gaza, Cairo, Jeddah, Baghdad, especially in Tehran and Damascus? Just asking. As someone who knows Ray a little, why was he dumped? EDL are not against gays, just against izlamic supremacy. Does that mean that Imaan and Gay Pride are FOR it? Cos it sure looks like it!! What is “dodgy” about condemning the way mozlems treat gays in mozlem countries? You lot have your thongs in a sad old twist!!
what the feck is a mozlim?
Imaan is a British organisation. Why would it have branches anywhere else??? By the way, if you’re a sympathiser of the EDL, it might give you more credibility if you learned how to spell in the English language.
Having read all of the comments here. In my view the entire East End Gay Pride group are tainted and its bitterly disappointing that the East End has been cheated out of a worthwhile event by a small group who I believe have clearly got an agenda other than equality.
Because the EDL are, in the view of the majority of people, prejudiced in that their criticisms of Islam because they say moderate, liberal Islam is impossible. Now I’m a bisexual atheist, I am NOT a fan of religion. But my parents are strongly Christian and I know that to claim that every Muslim is the same is like claiming every Christian supports Westboro Baptist Church or is against condoms. I’ve avoided calling every EDL member racist because it’s a very strong word and they may genuinely be separating race from the religion issue (I’m turning off the cynical part of my brain here). But even taking the argument about Islam on it’s own it doesn’t add up. (Add this to the overlap with BNP membership and it becomes blatant).
I hadn’t heard of Imman before this whole incident, I’m glad they exist though. I’d imagine they’d support LGBT people in crappy Theocratic parts of the world, even if their remit doesn’t cover those issues.
So EDL are just against Islamic Supremacy (assuming that’s what you meant)? Er, no, they’ve clearly proven in the past and now to be racist and against all Muslims, full stop. Big difference!
Cassandra we do have an associated group in Berlin (I’m assuming your German). Check out http://www.gladt.de for further information, GLADT: Gay Lesbians Aus Der Turkei, in case you can’t tell they are a Turkish organisation. As a UK voluntary group we don’t have the resources to deal with other countries as we have our hands full dealing with homophobes and islamophobes at home. Please feel free to donate (check out our website) or pass on our details to anybody you know in the countries you care about. Our online forum has members all round the world discussing issues which affect them.
I used to teach English as a foreign language in Berlin and still have a few friends there if you want any help with written English or your pronunciation. I was trained by The Berlin School of English to teach and the students there had many positive experiences with their English learning http://berlin.school-of-english.de/pages/
It was disheartening and worrying to learn the someone with strong links to the EDL was involved in the initial organisation of this event. HOWEVER, I still believe that the march should go ahead, and I hope today’s resignation will allay some people’s concerns. I suspect that, whatever the motivations of some organisers, the vast majority of people wanting to attend want to do so to celebrate diversity, to combat prejudice in all its forms and to send a signal to all the homophobes in east London that we won’t be intimidated by attacks on the local LGBT community. I don’t imagine for a second that the sensible majority would allow this event to be hijacked by extremists of any description. There’s been a feeling that homophobia is on the rise in east London for a while, and this march should be a positive way to galvanise the local LGBT community and send a clear but peaceful signal to ALL bigots in our neighbourhood, whatever their background, ethnicity or religion.
Well said. However get ready to be called a fascist.
Thanks. I hope this event can still proceed. I for one think the problem is very complex and I don’t for a minute think that all Muslims are homophobic or that the problems in east London are down to the Muslims in our neighbourhood. Having lived in east London for ten years, it would have been impossible and certainly very depressing to assume that the many many Asian and/or Muslim people I interact with on a daily basis were “against me”. I’m sure there are plenty of homophobes in east London who are Christian, or white, or black, or whatever. I’m encouraged that Pride events are now happening in parts of London where bigotry needs to be more actively challenged, rather than in the environs of Soho.
so now we are represented by edl THUGS so much for gay pride
Only if we let them, my friend. If enough sensible, right-minded and tolerant people turn up for this event, there’s no way it can be hijacked by extremists, thugs or whatever label we want to give them.
this pride was always about muslims and not gays, in fact gays are being pimped by edl
WHY should we continue to support an event based on lies? Do you really believe that this group of friends were not aware of Barry’s links to EDL? Do you really believe that if the current organisers remain the EDL thugs will not turn up? Forget about EDL thugs, read the comments in this list. The bile being vented against anyone who does not agree with EEGP organisers is astounding. The current supporters of EEGP cannot even engage in cyber discussion without resorting to name-calling and abuse and allegations. Most of them singling out Muslims and their real or imagined apologists. If this is their form online, lord knows what it will be on the day!
I’m not on anyone’s side, just keeping an open mind. A few people ranting on a messageboard don’t represent the wider, genuine feelings of the many people who may have just turned up to celebrate/demonstrate peacefully. Most of those people probably won’t be aware of all the political manoeuverings or the intense debate going on in forums like this one. I just thought, perhaps naively, that it was nice to see local people doing something rather than just being afraid or complaining from the sidelines. There’s too much apathy about. While this event MAY have had murky origins, there’s nothing to stop it turning into something positive if enough sensible, moderate people turn up. A minority cannot hijack or brainwash people in large numbers. Maybe there’s something positive to be got from this event?
The same guys whomwere racist to black people in the 90′s. It’s not new. The gay community always had these people in it now the truth is out
I bet the edl did put the posters up. I know the cops Reckon they found a Asian guy with them but they also said that guy they killed at the protest attacked them. And I reckon the cops are full of edl members
I suppose it was also the EDL that donned beards and fake tan to protest at both Derby and Nottingham Gay Pride events in 2010?
You are so deluded.
Thats because most practicing muslims like practicing christians do find homosexuality immoral. Which is why its important to engage not attack.
Lets not forget the guardian also went undercover with the english defence league and the video is frankly shocking but unsuprising:
actually an increasing numbers of practicing xians do not find homosexuality immoral.
I do not see why I should be respectful to anyone, be they christians, muslims or pastafarians, who says I am immoral due to the way I was born.
Also as someone whos grandfather fought for this great country in ww2 in burma, the following video makes me physically sick. If this is an EDL organizer, people need to think long and hard about what other people they might be marching alongside. How anyone can call themselves patriotic and love the st georges cross yet hail hitler is beyond comprehension. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFbICgWlnLk
As an independent particpant at the meeting between EDL, correction I meant EEGP and Rainbow Hamlets last week I have added comments above about what I have observed, the comments I have read and what I think Pride London should do NOW.
I welcome your thoughts.
Screen Prints of my research, the comments and messages I have quoted are available on request.
I personally am worried about the thoughts behind not only this event but the damnation it is receiving from certain quarters.
It would seem that regardless of an events direction it must be politicised, and in this case by those of the left.
I am very bothered by Out East’s damnation of the march, especially over the exclusion of the UAF considering said UAF’s support of a previous event, an Islamist conference at the Troxy, which had a number of viciously homophobic speakers.
It seems the claws are out and the cat fight has started, and an event has been ruined for no other reason than maybe a hissy fit of ‘I want to be top queen’.
But I am equally bothered by Gay people being deemed ‘Not Worthy’ of dialogue by the organisers as has happened to a few of our members
Bit of a shame. NiceOnes UK will monitor the situation for a few days, but at the moment our support is back on the fence. Too many questions and nobody to answer them
Take care and have a good day
I would also like to say that as everyone rightly says it is a good idea to engage with those religious groups who are homophobic (but do not preach violence, this is the key here, no church or mosque should ever be included that preaches violence towards gays).
I feel I must speak up for many followers of the BNP/EDL. I am not a supporter of either group, far from it, but a fair few of my neighbours are. When you speak to people it is not because they hate muslims or ethnic minorities, but rather because they are frustrated by a lack of housing and jobs for their children.
It would be nice if people were able to show the same patience they give to institutions that have said for people to kill gays, towards those who have been led astray by the far right.
Dont blame immigrants for lack of jobs or housing blame those people who voted for the politicians who Invited immigrants to the uk with advertising campaign in the 60′s to do the jobs no one wanted. And blame the people who selfishly bought their council houses then sold them on at a massive profit. They were not from the ethnic minoroties either.
I agree with you entirely James so dont go off on one and actually listen to what I was trying to say.
Many of the people who follow such groups do not actually blame ethnic minorities for issues such as housing and employment. They are just fed up with the fact non of the political parties (with the exception for a few labour mps) seem to care about them anymore.
This coupled with the decline in heavy manufacturing has led to a decrease in working class political activity and political identity, leaving the door open for the far right.
Most people that vote BNP often gave up voting a long time ago.
All I was asking for is the same consideration given to other be given to some supporters of the BNP and EDL. It is beyond doubt that racism and poverty are partial causes of muslim extremism and thus need to be challenged. It is also beyond doubt that poverty and alienation are causes of support for the far right.
BNP want to throw all black people out of the country. I’m cool with that I’ll go as soon as the last white man leaves Africa
I dont see your point. I of course oppose the racist policy of repatriation. All I was saying was that causes of extremism amongst white people are the same as they are amongst all other ethnicities.
Do you reject such a claim?
it was the same concerns for the economy,jobs and housing that led a minority of working class Germans to vote for the NSDAP in the 1930s and we all know where that led. The BNP and the “new right” embodied in the EDL are just the most recent manifestations of this repellant philosophy that many of our ancestors fought and died to defeat half a century ago.
I agree we should have patience but the goal should be to show people that there are alternatives to these that do not entail the politics of hate.
The term New right refers to neoliberal/neoconservative politics, not the far right.
Also – it was not just the working class that voted for NSDAP, and it was mainly the working class that resisted it in the beginning. Big support for NSDAP came from middle class religious people.
But I will agree that poverty and alienation and discrimination fuel extremism.
I for one am very disappointed by this, after arguing so vehemently against people saying it was all a front for a racist agenda. I would not support anything that actually was rooted in EDL ideology, or designed to be “anti” anyone at all.
Having said that, all we know is that one of the instigators once had an affiliation with the EDL. He doesn’t anymore, and in fact his past might well have been the reason the EDL was mentioned in the first place and kicked off all the conspiracy theories.
If we make sure that everyone knows the remaining organisers are officially opposed to all forms of racism, and reclaim the march as an anti-homophobia one, then I don’t see why we shouldn’t continue.
The remaining organisers came together to combat a very real homophobic attitude, we shouldn’t be afraid to stick to that aim or else we let that attitude fester unopposed.
I say we denounce the guy and march on
I have to agree. I too am very disappointed. There is a very real danger that a moment when the loss of a significant minority of LGBT community in Twoer Hamlets to the EDL could have been averted by the LGBT community coming together to in show of solidarity will now be lost probably for ever.
As I wrote in several places yesterday this feels an awful lot like 1991-2 just before the brief rise of the BNP in Tower Hamlets. The EDL will be the only beneficiaries from the attitude of groups like Out East and Imaan and that is a tragedy.
Agreed. Let’s not abandon the project when it has garnered so much support from ordinary LGBT people in the neighbourhood who have nothing (and want nothing) to do with the EDL. If responsibility for organising the event could be shared among the local LGBT groups, including Imaan, with the active involvement of Pride London, we could still have something occur of real value. Let’s not squander a great opportunity. It may not have had the most auspicious of beginnings, but this could have a great ending…
Yet again the venomous Left unleashes its vitriol against anyone who dares to hold an opposing view, however relevant. Whatever happened to freedom of speech and conscience? And, more to the point, what are these people doing to stand up for our rights? Nothing, that’s what. Their only priority is hating the Right, appeasing the gay hatred amongst Muslims (“we̵