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Trans woman loses legal battle for breast implants

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  1. There are millions of women with small breasts, C is not different to them.

  2. Did C ever say *which* human right was being violated by having to put up with small breasts? I’m sure there’s nothing in the ECHR about tits.

  3. good selfish idiot

  4. The ignorance about trans issues and vitriol spewed at trans people on this site never fails to astound me.

    1. oh please you want bigger tits you pay for them. Old people die of hypothermia disabled people will get their living allowances cut so i have no sympathy

      1. No, it’s true. What’s with this notion that trans people do what they do out of some frivolous desire? It’s instinct. It has to be. No other explanation works. Not even psychiatry. And as for human rights, what about the right to security? Trans people who don’t pass are in constant danger of their lives and their job security. Furthermore, cis-women with small breasts ususally have small body frames; transwomen often can access no such claim. There’s a standard of care, and it’s being ignored for some moralistic purpose. And people on this site are propping up that purpose. Way to go.

        1. Having small breasts is something that many women have, I can’t really muster much sympathy for C here.

          1. Agreed, I know many women with a-cups who are miserable with them, but they know that you can’t expect someone to pay for a boob-job just because you think you deserve better.

  5. OrtharRrith 11 Mar 2011, 1:04pm

    I do understand where she is coming from, and breasts are an obvious physical part of being female. I’m not sure how I would feel in her position if I am being completely honest.

    I’m not sure that the NHS should pay for them though, be the requestee be a cis-gendered woman or a trans-woman. It has to be equal across the board though, no matter what, or it is then discrimination.

    I hope that she is able to eventiually find the funds to go private.

    1. It does seem to be a bit unfair though since I know cis females in berkshire who have managed to get breast implants on the NHS.

      1. OrtharRrith 11 Mar 2011, 1:17pm

        And their in lies the problem. It should be all or none, not just a few.

        1. theotherone 11 Mar 2011, 4:00pm

          I agree OrthaRuth – all or none.

  6. Cosmetic surgery should not be funded by Nhs. Weight loss surgery, heat operations, organ transplant andedication these have merit for Nhs backing as theyve health improvements. Addiction suffers should have help if they want it.

    But a superficial operation I believe it’s your responsibility to fund for yourself.

  7. I’m not sure that it should be funded on the nhs, cis woman can’t get it on the nhs so why should trans woman?

  8. She should be treated the same as any other woman. A woman with small breasts would not have the right to augmentation on the NHS, but a woman with significantly asymmetrical breasts would.

  9. This is not ‘cosmetic’ surgery and for the PCT to bar her accessing this treatment on the grounds that it IS cosmetic is wrong.

    Although it is true that many women have small breasts, this is slightly different. As a trans woman ‘c’ must have went though much crippling dysphoria, like everyone else she is entitled to be cured…her dysphoria is stopping her from leading a normal happy healthy life, and so for that reason, the PCT should at least partly fund this life-saving (yes life saving) treatment.

  10. It is a shame that she lost her case, as I would love to spend the £4000 I’ve saved for my Augmentation on a car or holiday.
    But looking at the wider issue, had she won, the floodgates would be opened and where would the NHS get the extra funding from?? The con-dems have frozen NHS funding, staff are having to take pay cuts or lose their jobs altogether. The NHS are being squeezed hard. And theres little enough funding for the unpopular (lifestyle choice, apparently) trans person.
    For the Trans comunity, it would mean longer waiting lists to even get to Charing cross to start treatment. So overall, as sad as it is, hopefully more Trans people will get less treatment rather than less people get more treatment. (does that make sense?)

  11. TheSuburban Bi 11 Mar 2011, 7:24pm

    If all women in West Berkshire are being told no to NHS funded cosmetic breast augmentation then this ruling is not descriminatory. No woman, cis or trans, is guaranteed a certain breast size, so yes if the issue is only about size and not about having breasts at all (as the article makes clear, she has breasts due to hormone treatment), then it is size and therefore cosmetic. Plenty of cis women feel their breasts are out of proportion to their bodies and do have deep psychological issues related to how they feel about themselves and their bodies because of their size. And those issues are also deemed cosmetic in many areas — if that is the case in West Berkshire, then there would seem to be one policy across the board for all women, cis or trans. It is only descrimination if C is being treated differently to other women who want the same surgery for the same or similar reasons.

  12. The transphobic comments about “bigger tits” read just like the Daily Mail ; they’re probably running exactly that story just now.

    The largest study done on the subject [1] found that 34% of trans people in the uk have attempted suicide.

    34%. That’s more than one in three. This is not an issue of “cosmetic” surgery.

    [1] http://www.nmhdu.org.uk/our-work/mhep/gender/transgender/

    1. TheSuburban Bi 12 Mar 2011, 8:49am

      Lia, your comments would stand if everyone here was being dismissive and so crass as to say this woman just wanted a bigger pair o’ tits… but I think you should be fair enough to note that most here have addressed the issue with compassion and reason. Cis people are constantly being berated to treat trans people exactly as any other person would be treated. As far as all the information we have in front of us, there was no descrimination here, because C was not being denied treatment offered to other women under the NHS in her area.

      The stats on trans suicidal ideation and attempts are horrible, but you do a disservice to suggest they are primarily or directly linked to breast augmentation specifically in cases such as C’s where she has transitioned to a female body inclusive of female breast development but not of a certain size. That is the information we have. On that information, there does not seem to be descrimination. Therefore it’s unfair to label us all as transphobic.

    2. Lia I was a bit crass but no transphobic. I agree that transition costs should be covered on the NHS. We all have to make compromises in life and not having breasts the ideal size is about personal preference. It is not a duty of the state and can be rectified by the peron concerned. The NHS does not have unlimited funds and if you have been in a hospital recently you will know they could be better. Disabled and old people die of starvation or dehydration because they cannot feed themselves. There was a dispatches programme about it on C4 r4ecently. Maybe I’ve seen too much of the dreadful things that happen to the most vlnerable people in society to care about breast enlargements, either way I dont think the NHS should pay for this operation Gay men are also at a high risk of suicide too so dont try a guilt trip on me.

      1. (replying to both replies above)

        - The reason I am pointing out those numbers is to show that transwomen have a very different life experience than ciswomen, and as such have very different needs. As such I don’t see why things that do not apply to ciswomen should not apply to transwomen.

        - Denying that trans people have specific needs is transphobia. It is not outright hate, but it is nonetheless hurtful.

      2. Fine I’m transphobic pay for everything yourself I don’t give a fcuk anymore

  13. my breasts are fine as they are. this IS cosmetic surgery and should not be allowed. i made a decision when beginning transition, whatever the hormones gave me was good enough for me. millions of non-trans women have b-cups or less, sometimes far less, why should we be any different?

    1. OrtharRrith 12 Mar 2011, 2:35pm

      Indeed, her doctors would’ve made her aware as to the possible outcome of her breast growth from taking hormones. As I said earlier I do understand where she is coming from, breasts are one of the more obvious parts of being and feeling female. I do realise that larger breast would give her more confidence and that would undoubtedly improve her mental well being.
      But, breast enlargement is not life threatening and unless there is actual discrimination here – ie cis women are able to get breast enlargements from the West Berkshire PCT then being treated equally means she has to accept their decision.

      1. “breasts are one of the more obvious parts of being and feeling female.”

        Absolutely. But having large breasts isn’t. It’s rather insulting to all women with small but perfectly normal and attractive breasts to suggest that having bigger ones makes you more feminine..(NOTE – I’m NOT suggesting YOU were implying that – I only took your quote as a starting point to comment.)

        If this woman was being treated differently than other women then yes, that’s wrong, but if she’s not then she’ll just have to use her own money to get her breasts how she wants. I can understand that she may have extra issues involving her body image and I sympathise greatly with that, but if a line has to be drawn due to lack of money then sadly that’s just the way it is. Prioritising money spent in the NHS is hard and someone will always lose out.

  14. Cis and Trans women already get boobjobs on the NHS. Its a postcode lottery and its not fair.

    1. I agree. Nobody should get them.

      1. I disagree. If experts believe it would benefit the patient then it should be covered. But boobjobs or no boobjobs I would rather see equality across the board rather than a postcode lottery or Cis treated differently than Trans.

        1. Many women have small breasts. That’s a lottery too. You get whatever God gives you. (metaphorically speaking)

          The only downside might be breast feeding babies, in which case, go buy some baby milk.

          This is a purely aesthetic matter and has no bearing on the person’s health. Trans people want to be women, so they should take the same deals in life as every other woman; some get melons, some get fried eggs. It’s all part of life’s rich tapestry.
          I don’t see why I as a taxpayer should shell out just so people can look “better”.

  15. The point is that now there is a legal president all trans-women will now be barred from what is a core treatment. make no mistake this is the thin end of the wedge, one that result in even more deaths from desperate tran-women trying to live a normal live but been shunned by an ignorant society. this will soon be followed by the withdrawal of NHS funding for all unpopular groups of patients if left unchallenged.

  16. an NHS product 14 Mar 2011, 9:03am

    I got breast augmentation on the NHS and it made an enormous difference to my quality of life, and helped me to be accepted as a woman despite my being born as male. Unlike natal women, trans women face a constant challenge to their gender identity without the reassurance that they at least have ‘female’ on their birth certificate. 4 years of hormone treatment had achieved very little – a fellow patient sympathised with me with the comment “Poor cow, you’ve got hardly any tits at all” – and what did grow made no real visible impact on my larger male frame. As a result, there were many no go areas in my life as a woman that I can now enjoy with confidence with B cup breasts that are perfectly adequate. In many ways this has been more important for me than genital surgery; few people see what’s down below whereas the visible swell of the female breast is commonplace.

    In my view, trans women are in a different place to natal women and that needs to be take into account.

  17. friday jones 15 Mar 2011, 9:53pm

    There is a difference between a “small breast” and just having what looks like a painted-on nipple in the middle of some flat chest real estate. Cis people have no clue sometimes, doesn’t stop them from cisplaining all about gender though.

  18. Helen Wilson 17 Mar 2011, 1:48pm

    From what I read on most trans sites this woman is not widely supported within the trans community.

    When trans folk are struggling to get primary care trusts to fund gong to a gender identity clinic and get the specialist help they need. Its not unusual to hear of people waiting two or three years just for the initial appointment at a GIC because of a PCT delaying treatment after setting unrealistic budgets that can be as low as 0.1 treatments a year. (yes thats one treatment every ten years)

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