It is not clear whether the wording of the stickers – ‘gay-free zone’ – incites hatred based on sexual orientation under the law.
It could be harassment?
So would it would be acceptable to put up the same sticker with black free zone or Jewish free zone of course not.
why would anyone put the stickers up if they had no issue with LGBT?
why are the local council not charging the person with fly posting?
Good to see the truth has come out. Shame on Raymond Berry for trying to dupe the gay community in such a way. And well done Rainbow Hamlets for dealing with this matter with so much integrity.
The concept of an East End Gay Pride is a good one but it needs to be an inclussive event welcoming all communities to come together to celebrate our diversity whilst at the same time standing together to make it clear that homophobia and Islamaphobia is not acceptable in this country any more.
There are issues that need to be addressed, but those are issues with individuals and small groups who are resistant to the spread of human rights and respect for all.
As this case has shown, we can not allow the mindless acts of a few stop us from reaching out to each other in peace, and taking the time to work out our differences together.
We can all be a force for good in this world if we choose, I know what I choose – the rest is up to each and everyone of you.
Whoever is behind this a lone stupid person or some organisation have, they think so far, cleverly avoided breaking the law.
Lets take this chance to say we appreciate the support and understanding of the local mosque and community leaders who have disowned homophobia and celebrated the diversity of East London.
Many teenagers engage in stupid behaviour and I am sure most of the the annoying behaviour is just that.
Garbage Patrick – stop sucking up to hate preachers who want to exterminate us. I see you try to make any excuse you can for Islamists. It doesn’t wash – it just makes you look a gullible fool.
No, it ISN’T a lone stupid person. How easy to write off an endemic problem as the work of one crank.
How on earth can this be the work of one person? The stickers were seen in Nottingham in July 2010 (immediately before muslim fundamentalists staged an anti-gay demonstration). They were seen in Whitechapel in October 2010. Then in a few days in 2011 they were plastered from Shoreditch to Poplar, and from Stoke Newington to Twickenham. Individuals who reported some of the perpetrators to the Police reported that there was more than one person involved in plastering the walls. One local “community worker” in Whitechapel was reported in East End Life as saying his life had been threatened when he was taking them down.
@EDL supporter…. Only because it suits your racist islamophobia to say that it can’t be the work of one person. Strange how there were no reports of the stickers before now.
Actually Paddys…. I have been trying to highlight the problems for over a year. Plus these posters have been around for a while, Oxford Street a years or two ago and have been plastered around the country too.
The East End is riddled with CCTV. It was only a matter of time before someone was spotted.
My only concern now is if and when this comes to court, will it be viewed as some “teenage prank”, or more serious?
I’m sure if offensive racist material had been posted, the attitude wouldn’t be the same.
I’m Gay, Asian and Muslim and it upsets me but does not surprise me that a teenager would be willing to spread this kind of hatred. The views of this man and his associates does not represent the views of the whole Muslim community in the same way that the Taliban is not representative of the Muslim community. As a community which is often attacked by various religious and right wing groups we should not play their game. Being gay is simply that we love people who are the same sex. Everything else is the same. Show them the strength of our love is way more powerful than the politics of hate.
I hear what your saying but isn’t that just code for sit back and do nothing?
Look the law is supposed to protect us from hatred. It has done so for 40 odd years and we have a right to make sure the police make people follow the law. Not a single one of us has to just put up with it.
We have every right to go about our business with harrassment, hatred and intimidation. These posters are just not acceptable in a country where being part of the LGBT community is protected by law.
It’s not about playing a game or fighting hate with hate. Its about us standing up and saying in the UK this kind of behaviour with not be tolerated.
Treat people how you wish to be treated is my standing in life and lets face it, if this was against the muslim community they’d be a right ol fuzz. So why not expect it back.
meant without harrassment…
The Gallup survey reported by The Guardian in 2009 showed that there was ZERO TOLERANCE amongst British muslims for homosexuality (and our muslims are far more intolerant than muslims in France or Germany). So don’t give us the lie that it is “a minority”.
Anti-gay literatures has been found at 25% of mosques in Britain (i.e. literature calling for us to be killed). The islamic party in Britain has called for our execution. Sharia Law calls for our execution. The EDL had a demon in Luton in February; up until December 2010 the Luton Islamic Centre was distributing a document calling for our execution:
These Gay Free Zone stickers were known to have been posted in Nottingham in July 2010, and again in London in October 2010. The gay media covered up those stories. And once again the left-wing allies of islamic fanatics claimed it was the EDL who were responsible.
I am tired of the Gallup survey being banded around and generally misquoted to justify sterotyping of all Muslims as being some insidious enemy within. First of all, the question asked was with regards to homosexual acts not homosexuality per se. Secondly, no indication has been given as to how the sample was selected – if they stood outside a mosque in a deprived area they are likely to get the same results if they stood outside one of the Pentecostal churches where I live.
as for 25% of mosques in Britain having literature calling for us to be killed – is this a study you just made up or have you been round to all the mosques in the UK?
Can we stick to FACTS, not misquotes nor conjecture! As stated in the article, the person arrested was Asian (NB Not all Asians are Muslims) and the Police are investigating pressing charges. We should see what action the police takes, if they don’t then we should be asking WHY!
You can dismiss the Gallup survey as much as you like. But notice this — you haven’t gone off to Gallup and asked them to justify their methodology, have you? Don’t you think The Guardian would have done that before they quoted the Gallup survey? And even if the methodology was faulty – the same survey found that 58% of the general public WERE tolerant, whilst 0% of muslims were. Furthemore, the survey showed that it was BRITISH muslims who were so monumentally intolerant, whilst French and German muslims were relatively tolerant (for muslims).
As for the 25% survey you think I made up — if you were even remotely informed about matters concerning islam and homosexuality in this country, you’d be aware of these things yourself, rather than needing to be led by the hand by those who are better informed and less politically-biased than yourself.
You are the one who has no facts only your personal bias.
On what basis do you rely upon the Guardian to have checked the methodology in the survey? Moreover, as I have pointed out, the question was in relation to “homosexual acts”! I am sure most macho hetero men will not be all too happy with thinking about “homosexual acts”.
Politically biased? less informed? perhaps you should not jump to conclusions. Your political bias is self evident in your sweeping generalisaitons based on misleading and misquoted spurious research
Read the comment here by Geoff Juden 14 October 2010 2:00PM:
Last year Gay people where being mugged and beaten up primarily by muslim youth. Indeed The George & Dragon pub received a visit from muslims, decanted from two cars, proceeded into the establishment and beat up the clients. Then drove away. Not one councillor from Tower Hamlets made comment…
A meeting was called … whereupon as leader of Tower Hamlets Lutfur Rahman, instead of supporting us lead a tirade against The Gay Press. Throughout last year not one word was spoken in favour of the Gay Community by any councillors in Tower Hamlets, exception being The Liberal Leader and Joshua Peck..
I attended The East London Mosque and requested that they make a statement against the … harrassment … [their] press spokesperson refused.
Good on you JAmes for going there but I am not surprised at their reaction…. the east london mosque, which Lutfur Rahman and his cohorts are closely associated with, is a major cause of these issues. They have undue influence in the area and if that continues, we will only see more of this kind of homophobia.
This is a reply to the AliG (but commenting can only go so deep).
I know now why you are so uninformed. You are incapable of reading. I did not say I went anywhere. I’m quoting from a report by Geoff Juden who describes the meeting he went to, his actions against ELM, and what happened at the George & Dragon (events which you denied as factual).
@ James…. you are the one who has the problem . Go back and read your post. You clearly said you went to the Mosque and that is what AliG meant when he congratulated you for going there. If you were quoting someone else, in your ignorance and haste to spew your racist hatred, you didn’t use the usual attributes when quoting someone.
@paddywurds. You have demonstrated throughout your failure to grasp current affairs and statistics. And now you are proving incapable of reading these comments.
I began the post where a mosque visit wit the following line.
And I ended the multigraph quotation with the URL where that man in east London mentioned his attempts to get Lutfur Rahman and the East London Mosque to do something.
I can’t help it if you and AliG are too lazy to follow the URL and specific instructions where I point out the name and the time where Geoff made those claims.
You are demonstrating that is you who is at haste to trumpet your prejudice and ignorance, rather than follow URL to The Guardian or The Times or government websites to see what respected organisations are saying.
But then you are not intersted in facts and truth, are you?
@ James look again at the survey. Muslims were only 23% likely anywhere in the EU to say homosexuality was wrong where they lived. The UK was NOT singled out as the poll was American and surveyed most of the World.More racist lies.
@Abd Al-Azeem …. As with the christians, all muslims will get tarred with the same brush while they adhere to an ancient book of fiction which seeks to vilify or harm sections of society, in this case gay people. While you may not be a fundamentalist Muslim, but while you identify with Islam, you will experience islamophobia. There are lots of Christians who will say oh we don’t go along with the fundis, how is one to know really. It is very hard to seperate the good from the bad while the essential tenents of your religion state these issues.
As a matter of interest, how do you as a gay man identify with an organisation that, if it knew you were Gay, would have you killed or wish you killed.???
As a gay muslim what has been your experience from other muslim men at friday prayer? Are you welcomed for being gay?or do you have to hide that. I ask because i had gay friend who used to be muslim, who had death threats for being gay, but not just directed at him, his family also. Another occasion i had argument with some muslim guy , who when i mentioned there are gay muslims wanted their names etc as if i knew them personally, and he was going to take some divine vigilante justice.As a muslim what are your views on women who wear the hijab ? evolution?
I’ve had two muslim boyfriends. They both kept parallel identities (i.e. they had non-muslim names to use with their gay friends). They went to great lengths to make sure none of their muslim friends met their gay friends — other gay people had nothing against my boyfriends, but it was clear that both boyfriends lived in fear and shame.
fortunately my mate was able to drop the whole religious brainwashing thing( which is apparent in most religions), so he did not have the internal conflict of being gay and then trying to adapt a homophobic dogma to his situation. It is a very sad situation where you have to compartmentalise your life and segregate friends because of a facist dogma. but i think ultimately my friend could be honest with himself about his situation unlike some who try to defend a religion they claim to belong to, which discriminates against them with hostility.
@ edl supporter….were your two Muslim boyfriends aware of you blatant racism and Islamophobia. How did you bed people you so clearly detest is what astounds me…..
@edl supporter…..and i would contend that in fact you are a liar. It is common for racists to say “oh i have loads of black/ asian/ muslim friends……and your remarks along those lines confirm this.
These comments are pathetic and shows you how uneducated you are. Please read more than the Daily (Hate)Mail to get your ‘facts’.
@rapture……I am disappointed that Abd Al-Azeem didn’t feel able to answer my query. i suspect there is a huge struggle going on in his mind to escape from the evil indoctrination in which he was reared and now finds himself. The extra pressure of being a gay muslim must have huge consequences for his life in general. Hiding of his true identity in such circumstances must be awful..not least the fear for his life.
Yes i agree but i have met many who have escaped the childhood abuse of enforced doctrines. Some people are however more vulnerable to all this superstitious rubbish and cannot evolve past it. however gay people that want to be part of an organisation that does not want you as a member need to question their identity and self worth. That goes for some lgbt christians as well as muslims.
@ rapture…I would have said all GLB christians and all GLB muslims.
While as you say you have met many who have escaped the childhood abuse of enforced doctrines, as i have, some aren’t just that strong willed and find it impossible to
escape this evil.
This is not only unbelievably ignorant but very patronising. Have you ever thought that Abd Al-Azeem didn’t bother coming back here because of the hateful bile many of you are coming out with? Or was it your tacit support of the EDL fascist?
@ queer.com…surely you are not refering to me in your last post. A reading of my posts would mark me as anything but a facist group supporter.
I was interested to hear his view on how he reconciles his sexuality with his homophobic, sexist religion? or are you such an embecile that you dispute that islam is homophobic? although scriptures in the hadith and koran clearly are.
Why is homophobia not taken as seriously, sure the legislation ect is in place, but no one takes note of its seriousness compared to things such as racism.
“Gay-free zone” implies gays aren’t welcome or wanted there- but the law of the country says if its public ground anyone may pass. So someone trying to harbour peoples freedom based solely on a minority quality they posess is against the law! Christ a sign saying “no blacks” would be deemed illegal in the blink of an eye and cause riots….. but when its no gays nobody takes it seriously. If it is a teenager it will be taken even less seriously…. typical.
Legislation is just paper. Plus there have been no massive law changes or guidelines for homophobia, we’re still many years behind the changes for racism. They should just add them all together, but they won’t, because all minorities have different forms of prejudice. The basic ignorance and attacks for being different in some way are exactly the same, but you’ll find the system doesn’t cater for all minorities the same when they become a victim. The services and guidelines for social rehousing etc, just aren’t there for all minorities, they are not all equally on the list of priority. It’s things like that where you see how racism is far ahead in being dealt with within the system.
Agreed. It implies that Gays aren’t welcome in certain areas of a country in which being Gay is perfectly legal.
This is blatant homophobia and should Never be allowed, esp with such ease in which the police have treated this.
It is worse than this. The vast majority of gay bars in east London have closed down in the last 10 years — The Black Horse, Benjys, Pride of Stepney, etc. There are now only 2 or 3 gay bars between E1 and E14.
There have been serious physical assaults on people coming out of bars in Shoreditch — and in one instance car-loads of muslim men arrived at one bar and went inside and attacked people with baseball bats. Good luck in finding that reported in the media (gay or straight).
Someone in EDL Gay Division told me that the owner of The Black Horse said that bar closed down because of customers being attacked.
Your right. They are closing down because of the intolerance of the area and No-one lifts a finger.
I have comment here before and recently that 2 friends were attacked coming out of the Black Horse by a gang of Asian youth. When two asian police officers turned up my friends were told they had brought it on themselves. They (rightly or wrongly) didn’t bother following it up.
Its a disgusting state of affairs when while we are perfectly legal in this country we have been chased out of certain areas.
@james: Are you once again putting forward your manifesto for the EDL?
” in one instance car-loads of muslim men arrived at one bar and went inside and attacked people with baseball bats” what makes you so sure they were Muslim other than your racist EDL agenda?
Islam is a religion, not a race. Come back when you’ve managed to comprehend that fact. Meanwhile my boyfriend is asian.
I can provide many examples of British muslim organisations calling for gay people to be executed. Can you provide me with any British hindu or buddhist organisations calling for us to be executed?
the point being, you have no basis to assume they were muslim men! The assumption being that all Asians are Muslim! Come back when you can prove they were Muslim? was it the beard? the turban? Sikhs wear those more readily than Muslims and often attacked for being mistaken for Muslims.
There are also British Muslim organisations that are clearly not homphobic e.g. Muslims for Secular Democracy, the Quilliam foundation.
Once again AliG demonstrates his own bias. The police and media do not report when people are muslims – they report “race”. Just like with these islamically-motivated gay hatred posters, the media and the Left have wanted to blame anyone but muslims.
But THE FACTS are that muslims are 4% of the UK population, but between 12 and 14% of the prison population. When violently homophobic attacks happen in muslim-dominated areas of London, it is an assumption (but likely nonetheless) that the “asian” perpetrators are muslims. Most asians in Britain are muslims, most asians in east London are muslims. When “asians” are said to attack gay men in east London then the chances are they are muslim.
I’m still waiting for you to cite examples of Hindus or Buddhists in Britain who are calling for gay men to be executed. We know you’re uninformed, but perhaps you can at least try to substantiate your prejudice that all asians are equally violent and criminal.
you are the racist, trying to vilify english values like standing against intolerance and extremist fanatics.
@James . @ AliG… i think “islamophobic” would be more appropriate than “racist”. This the same problem the Irish had in Britain when “the Troubles” were ongoing. All IRA attacks were blamed on Catholics just because the Irish were seen as primarily RC when in fact less than 28% of Irish people practice any religion. All Asians will have the same problem, even though thay may in fact be Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Shinto, Buddist, Jains etc. It is actually more ignorance than racism or Islamophobic. Cherie Blairs sister Lauren is a Muslim but i’m betting if she and a group of her friends were to attack a gay bar it would not be blamed on Muslims.
@ James…”meanwhile my boyfriend is asian” How does he deal with your obvious racism toward people of his race and your islamophobia. You rarely if ever mention xtian homophobia or is that not part of the facist EDL agenda.???
@ James EDL Gay Division…… Thats like saying The Tory New Labour Division. An oxymoron.
I think you mean more like saying The Labour Party Tory Division. Oh, hang on… that’s exactly what New Labour was.
You just stick to your nice well-worn categories of black/white, left/white. I’m sure such simplicity is all that you are capable of thinking.
@ James I will thank you not to tell me what to think or what i mean. That is more your abrahamic mythology fictions way of working. As an atheist i am used to thinking for myself. You clearly haven’t bothered to read any of my posts or you would know that what you say is disingenious rubbish. Have you read the Judgement from the Johns case yet? Your comment marks you out as what you clearly are …A Racist pure and simple. By the way “most Asians in britain” are not likely to be Muslim. They are more likely to be Sikh or Hindu. However if you were to say most racists in Britain are white anglo saxon protestants you would be quite correct. White anglo saxon protestants world wide think they are the “chosen few”, whatever that means, and are the most racist of any populations, where-ever they are found.
@ James…. re my last post, i meant to add ….”is that black and White enough for you??”.
@paddyswurd: Well thats a bit narrow minded isnt it saying that it is WASP’s who are the most racist. I think monotheistic religions are crazy, and I dont see the difference between Protestantism and catholicism, both crazy cults to me.
Having been raised in the cult of the Pope I can assure you there are a fair few racist catholics in this country. There are also a fair few protestants who abhor racism.
Also I think you should go to Italy if you think WASPs are the most racist people in a country, or Poland. Im afraid to say the papists have won that battle their.
@Paddyswurds… you are demonstrating your own ignorance. You have NO EXCUSE for not looking up information before you make claims about statistics. The information is out there, for those who are interested in the truth not their own bombast.
These government statistics from 2001 show that the biggest group of asians in Britain is certainly muslims:
The number of muslims in Britain has gone up by almost 100% every ten years in the past few decades. Muslims were under 2% of the 2001 Census; now they are thought to be 4% (the current census should tell us more).
This analysis from The Times in 2009 says that the number of muslims in Britain is growing 10x faster than any other group in society:
If you are going to engage in argument, at least acquire SOME facts. Otherwise you just make yourself look stupid.
@ Scott…italy and Poland hardly apply as i said countries where Waspss are in preponderance. i agree that countries which have a preponderance of RCs will also be fairly racist but the racism found in these countries is not as hate filled as those of the WASP variety. More a them and us mentality and are less likely to set up facist organisations in a bid to do them harm or expel them. WASPish EDL and BNP came to the north of Ireland and attempted to garner support amongst Irish protestants, who are mostly of Scottish extraction and couldnt possibly be classed as WASP, and were roundly rejected.
@ James Funny how facists can always come up with statistics to support their racism and villification of a group of people This is the sort of thing facists resorted to in the 1930s and which was accepted by an ignorant and fearful population. The real nub of your comments is the numbers of Asians not MUslims but you as a racist know that by whineing about muslims you cant be accused of racism. Well i am accusing you of both Racism and Islamophobia. Hows that for making myself look stooopid A***hole.
@paddyswurds. So, when you are proven to be ignorant and talking out of your arse, you attempt to smear someone as “racist”. Of course I don’t hate all asians — hatred is for pathetic losers. I’ve been in the same relationship with my asian boyfriend for almost a decade, and we’ve gone through thick and thin together (including being kept apart by UK immigration officials for 3 years).
So, take your prejudices about me elsewhere, you ignorant, bombastic fool.
Oh Dear! James has friends in the EDL LGBT group. Well that does not surprise me, given some of the Racist comments that have made here. I say Racist, because that is the under current of the attack on Islam.
Have you forgotten the Pope and his comments. Have you forgotten the Evangelican church and their calls for us to be put to death.
The reality is none of the religions particularly like us, just like the EDL and similar far right groups.
The Black Horse was closed shortly after it was raided by drug squad and fond the place to be one big powder room.
I was attacked outside the Black Horse by a group of white thugs which has been our experience long before the Bangladeshi community arrived.
Speak to any queen over 30 and they will tell you the truth about Queer Bashing in the East End in the past.
Gay bars have closed down in East London because they could not compete or the Landlord ran away with the takings leaving customers wondering.
Knees up mother Brown……………
Of course, Terry has no problem parading his own class and race prejudice. He despises the EDL because they are rough and working class. And he assumes that everyone who is white is racist (most of my boyfriends have been non-white).
As for the christian enemies of gay people – thousands of people protested against the Pope when he was last here.
Where were the thousands protesting against the homophobic muslim preachers at the last muslim fanatic conference in the Ibis hotel in January 2011?
Yes Terry, the debate reminds me of an incident some years ago when a factory in my home town up north advertised jobs stating Muslims need not apply. In a population of 250,000, there were 3,000 Asians who were 99% Muslim (other ethnic minorities numbered in the low hundreds)…. it was clear that they were saying ethnic minorities need not apply…. however, as they had referred to religion not race, they were not breaking the law despite it their intent being clear.
As for EDL supporters comments…. anyone would have to be stupid to not realise you are the racist, right wing hate mongers!
@ Terry Stewart….. long before they arrived i had to run the gauntlet of WASP thugs, as i made my way to the King George docks when i was in the Merchant Navy. It didn’t end there either. On more than one occasion i had to be defended by other Irish and Liverpool lads from the hatred and bigotry of some of these thugs who worked on board some of the ships i sailed on. When i say Liverpool lads, the majority of those were of Irish RC extraction who had grown up with the bigotry of these same WASPs. The only time in my 60 years that i was homophobically mugged was by these same thugs.
Terry that has to be the most arrogant messages.
People stopped going to the pubs because of the attacks from Asian gangs in recent years, gangs that are themselves racists and homophobic.
You say about being attacked by a white gang but clearly that wasn’t a regular thing or the bars would have closed long ago. Don’t you find it strange that these places closed Very near to each other? Are you that blind, that ignorant to see whats really been happening? Or are you just going to make excuses like Rainbow Hamlets?
Who wants to go to places with these threats of attack. Then isn’t that what these gangs want ‘Gays’ off ‘their turf.
Only it was ‘their turf’ though because it isn’t.
Be blind if thats what you want but don’t attack people because they know the truth and some like me who have had to live with the truth.
The following link explains why homophobia is taken less seriously than racism. Stonewall’s Ben Summerskill doesn’t think gay people need the same degree of protection as racial minorities.
wow – i am less and less impressed with the established gay politicos in the uk with every passing day. what a bunch of cowardly careerists.
If you go to the Stonewall Page on Facebook and make any comments about muslim homophobia, they will ban you.
Interesting so denial then?!
Are the UAF people going to post here again and apologise for saying it was an EDL stunt?
In 2006 Peter Tatchell (and gay muslims) wrote an open letter to UAF (and the 5 major trade unions who back them), demanding that they stop inviting the homophobic leader of the Muslim Council of Britain to address their meetings:
The UAF ignored him. The UAF have proven they are not interested in attacking fascism — they are only in fomenting violent revolution. What UAF like to keep quiet is that their leaders are all members of the communist Socialist Workers Party.
The only interest the UAF have in gay rights, is when they turn up at Gay Pride events handing out free placards with their name on them, hoping to recruit people to the SWP.
If someone was found in possession of Jew-free zone stickers, would they too face no chsrges? Or muslin-free zone?
Hope the DPP comes up with something.
hi handsome…… muslin??? i seem to remember using that to make drain cottage cheese in my childhood……… seriously though dan you are correct and i stand behind you on this one! x
AN INVITATION TO RAINBOW HAMLETS TO RESIGN
You spent the past three weeks burying your head in the sand. You said that the stickers were the work of ‘the EDL’, based on no evidence whatsoever. Will you now admit, this statement was based on nothing but wishful thinking and fear, and a need to kow-tow to Islamofascists?
You made a joint statement with the East London Mosque – a vipers’ nest of an institution that has sponsored, hosted and promoted a host of hate preachers, who have called for the EXTERMINATION of gays, Jews, non-muslims, and held a SPOT THE FAG contest. You collaborate with people that hate us.
How dare you? Abdicate, resign, relinquish, your self-appointed positions and stop making a fool of the LGBT community with your ‘Peace In Our Time’ cowardice.
I call on self respecting people of East London to bypass this ridiculous, naive, credulous organisation, whose only role is to make Tower Hamlets and religious extremists save face.
All Rainbow Hamlets have done it seems is protect and make excuses for the Very people committing the crimes.
What do you expect Rainbow Hamlets to do? Its a community forum with the stated mission of:
Community empowerment and visibility
Trust between LGBT community and statutory agencies
They appear to be acting within their remit, do you expect them to influence the east london mosque by engaging them and making a supportive statement or by attacking them and all Muslims in the area by labelling them all fascists?
There you go again, AliG, like all Islamofascist enablers – trying to smear people who expose Islamist extremism as attacking ‘all muslims’, when no such claim was made. You are either extremely thick or, more likely, malicious, because in your opinion, no muslim, even the psycopathic muslim, can do any wrong. I think the letter. You disgust me.
You call RH a ‘A community forum’. Come off it. They stood alongside a mosque that hosted and promoted hate, that encouraged preachers to call for our extermination. They stand alongside these people. You call this alliance ‘COMMUNITY COHESION’?? This is not cohestion. Never mind just incitement to murder, this is aiding and abbetting treason.
Rebecca Shaw and her idiot crew are supporting would-be murderers. With the support of gullible fools like you.
Any malice appears to be coming from those who think the response to hatred is with further hatred and demonising. Yet again who disagrees with is either stupid or a fascist/fascist enabler/fascist supporter. So your hatred is more righteous than theirs? I think not, hatred is hatred and only leads to further polarisation.
agreed. they are disgusting. i feel so bad for lgbt(or maybe its just non muslim lgbt who do not get support) in tower hamlets with no support.
Just do the test: Change the word gay for the word asian, or jew, or black. How would a case like that be dealt with? The police is taking a far too tolerant approach to intolerance, if they’re thinking twice…
I am so angry at the failure to charge the guy.
Change the wording to muslim free zone add a biblical threat and see how quickly the police arrest you.
There has to be action taken against the police for this. They are cowards!
I am sure if the law was not such an ass, they would have charged him.
The problem is the equalities Law,does not have the same power when it comes to Homophobia as it has in other hate crimes.
That is the law and it needs to be changed. It has nothing to do with the police allowing Asian youth to be homophobic.
“It is not clear whether the wording of the stickers – ‘gay-free zone’ – incites hatred based on sexual orientation under the law.”
I dunno, lets go out carrying and sticking up posters saying “Muslim Free-Zone” and watch how differently we would be treated. Thats of course after the press had make sure you got bad right wing press coverage and the Muslims themselves up in arms calling for whoever to be executed.
The police are allowing Double standard. They know the problems these posters will cause. Did they allow the person to leave with them, I wonder?
Now we have it basically confirmed that is was a Muslim what action is going to be taken to stop this form of hatred onto our communites or are they going to be allow to get away with it?
It is clearly hatred. The law was changed in 1967. This was supposed to protect us from discrimination yet, they just ain’t sure about what, the promotion of hatred?
Oh yes, I can also see whats coming from the apologists… It was a member of the EDL pretending to be Asian…
@jockstrap: going by your comment on another thread, by your own definition you are now emphatically racist.
Your comment make absolutely no sense. Your a bit of a bore. You attack but you never add anything to debate. Clearly your too immature to be bothering with.
Seriously AliG my 10 year nephew has more of a grasp of debate than you do.
So – you cannot tell the difference between JocjStrap and the murderers of Ashley Lawrence? Could you imagine yourself making that claim to his family?
No, I thought not.
@ Jock S Trap…..go out and put up Asian free zone stickers in Warwickshire od Devon and im guessing you will be ignored though. In Tower Hamlets the ethnic and religious majority will be asian Muslims and more than likely the police in that area will also have a preponderence of Asian Muslims. This makes your scenario un realistic whether you like it or not. The problem seems to be segregation not Racism or Islamophobia, What we must strive for is a total eradication of segregation and we will by default achieve eradication of racism. White Britain is mostly to blame for this themselves by tending to push certain ethnic groups together whether through the racism of council officials who allocate housing or the racism of private landlords. This is again a problem we had in the north of Ireland with segregated schools. Since the advent of integrated schools things are starting to change here and the same is working with the desegration of council housing estates.
I sense you are making excuses for homophobia in the East End. Somehow making it other peoples fault. The ‘oh well if your going to put these people together’ speech that makes it excusable. It doesn’t!
There is no excuse for homphobia. Homophobia is incompatible with British law just the same as racism and like racism there can be no excuses. If people don’t like British law either put up or ship out and that goes for all British, white, christian,muslim or not. Equality rules mean just that.
If people want to make excuses to somehow opt out of British law then they must suffer the consequences, no double standards the law is there for all.
@ Jock S Trap…Not at all. I am merely putting forward a theory as to the reason why certain areas are ethnically segregated. Racism. nimbyism. If ethnics were spread out amongst the general population then there would be no such thing as our area or their area. if you know anything atall about the politics of ghettos you would know it is very hard for anyone to object to the view of the loud minority. These people are acting as if they were still in the slums of Pakistan, India or Iraq and UK law is far from their minds. If they weren’t segregated they would be much more ganeral aware and i’m suprised you don’t see that. That however is not to excuse homophobia or indeed Racism, which your comment has underlieing tones of, whether intended or not.
I think that if you have been reading my comments to date, then your comment is disingenious.
Paddyswurds, very valid points.
I suggest all you do it stifle debate by the easy throwing around of the racist card. It actually demeans real racism and shows you up to be nothing more than an uneducated idiot who really doesn’t know the meaning of the word.
Your an ememy of democracy because you only throw around ridiculous claims in an attempt to stop people debating.
As a white, Gay man and as someone who has suffered both racism and homophobia from the muslim community in Tower Hamlets may I suggest you study the facts before venting your ridiculous ‘claims’ that surely are only worthy in the likes of the Daily Star.
As for you claim that my comment has ‘underlying tones’ may I suggest you read it properly, not scan a few words and see what you want.
I do believe in This country we are free to emigrate to another country, That is another beautiful right we have. It doesn’t matter who you are if you truely, truely hate this country and it’s values, people have the right to exercise that right and move to a country more fitting to their needs.
I repeat “that goes for all British, white, christian,muslim or not. Equality rules mean just that.”
I am really fed up of these homophobic Muslims. Vile creatures.
Prompt action needs to be taken by the police. These pigs need to face consequences for their actions.
@SamB: So it is perfectly fine for others to be homophobic? As pointed out by another blogger on the Christian foster couple, you’re outrage there is notably absent.
Again, your comment makes no sense. Read the story. SamB’s comment was clearly on the story this thread is about. He clearly is adding a valid point to a serious debate, something your considerably lacking.
Its a comment thread. Its about debate.
Sheesh… I’m don’t with ya.
Jock, it is a reasonable question to ask: do we challenge all homophobia or do we decide how much we dislike the perpetrator or the reason for their homophobia before challenging it?
But if we dont challenge the cause of homophobia we are not really removing it
Absolutely SamB – but we know the police will won’t bat an eyelid. Of course, AliG thinks that is just fantastic.
@ SamB…wouldn’t your comment have more validity if you said you were fed up with these religious homophobes,christian, muslim or indeed hindu or sikh for that matter. Calling anyone vile creatures or pigs, just because they were indoctrinated and brought up in a homophobic faith does not advance the debate one iota.
On the other hand you would seem to fit these descriptions better as you appear to be of no faith and would appear to be utterly racist.
@ SamB….as you would appear to be of no faith and so should know better…*
When we have a story on homophobic Christians, people comment on homophobic Christians.
When we have a story on homophobic Muslims, people comment on homophobic Muslims.
Here’s a question…
Why when its a homophobic Christian story, thats just what it is but when it’s about homophobic Muslims putting up Hate poster we’ve got to remember all other religious homophobes?
In the case of Christian Homophobes Eunice and Owen Johns you commented about you right to have them as slaves, in jest, but still…
Why do you not point out we should remember other religious homophobes when it involves Christians but when it comes to Muslim homophobes we must remember other religious homophobes?
Double standards don’t ya think?
Equality MEANS Equality. Yet anyone pointing out things happening against the LGBT community your just too happy to brand racist.
Are you by some chance and member of UAF?
Lets be honest Paddys… for all your continuously throwing the racist card…
The only reason in the homophobic Christian news item you made reference to ‘having as slaves’ was because Mr. & Mrs. Johns are black. Which would make you a blatant racist, would it not?!
And a blatant hypocrite!
Ok, I live and grew up In Dagenham, I have seen my fair share of far right Christian BNP zealots who have advocated the death of gay people.
I have not seen this from the EDL.
I have a solution – Every immigrant when entering the country, wherever they are from and whatever religion the claim, should be asked – 1) do you accept others right to be gay, 2) do you oppose all forms of homophobia 3) Will you spread acceptance and not hate?
If the answer is no to any question they can p*ss off back to the poverty stricken hell hole they came from.
The UAF are complete tw*ts, the used to stand up very well against the BNP, but now the are full of SWP interlopers who love to cosy up with islamists in order to spread their ideology.
I tell you what, if teh EDL makes a statement to leave gay friendly and democracy friendly Muslims alone, then im bloody joining.
EDL welcomes muslims who are opposed to islamic fundamentalism – there are muslims and ex-muslims in EDL. EDL also has a Jewish Division and a Gay Division.
From what I can gather, there EDL is no more racist nor homophobic than the rest of society.
Yeah, but they are a lil crazy too, like they are ridiculously pro israeli in a kind of cult like manner.
Also the football hooligan links worry me.
But i generally agree with you. having seen the EDL in dagenham, they really did not seem like the BNP.
I guess the thing is with groups like the BNP, their followers tend not to actually agree with a great deal of what the Party says, they just feel like they have no other choice.
I hope the EDL can squeeze out the BNP and become a real choice.
I think it would be disastrous for the EDL if they did become a party. It is a matter of public record that the EDL have kicked BNP politicians out of their meetings, when the BNP have come looking to hook up with them
I would like it if EDL went after groups like Hizb ut Tahrir in Britain — HuT is the most homophobic and fascist party in Britain, and the UAF and Searchlight have done nothing to oppose it in the last 25 years (despite Hizb ut Tahrir calling for gay people to be executed and wanting to install a muslim dictatorship).
As for EDL opinions on Israel – from my observations the people in EDL have a range of opinions on Israel (some are zionist, some are not). I think on the whole they recognise that Israel is on the frontline of the confrontation between the west and islam. The western media are shockingly biased against Israel.
While I dont want to get into this as these conversations never end well – are you really trying to say that the express/mail/telegraph/star/sun/bbc are anti Israeli?
Also painting the israel palestine conflict as a opposition between the west and islam is silly and factually incorrect. The problem with the conflict is that antidemocratic religious crazies on either side block peace and attack civilians.
But I agree I think EDL should go after groups like Hut. I am also relieved to hear that the EDL cut all ties with a jewish terrorist group.
Alig if the EDL can cut ties with a Jewish terrorist group why is it so bad to ask the MCB to cut ties with a muslim hate group?
I repeat any muslims who wants democracy, respects womans and gay rights is a fellow countryman. ANyone that doesnt should be ignored and belittled if they were born here, or sent home if they were not.
The BNP now have non-white members, does that mean they are no longer a racist organisation? Is it just a coincidence that the EDL marches are marshalled by BNP councillors? Is it just coincidence that said EDL marches are reminiscent of the national front marches in the 70s?
Just because some minorities join an extremist rightwing hate group, does not make it anything else, it just shows a pathetic attempt at clinging to a sense of belonging through hate of the “other”.
I agree that is why a minority join, and I also agree that a breakdown in white working class culture and job opportunities are causing a great deal of distress.
However I must say, the EDL do not appear to be racist in the way the BNP are. They make no ridiculous claims about gay pedophiles, or black criminals etc etc.
Would you agree with the EDL if the said all those Muslims who support democracy, wiomans rights and gay rights are our brothers, and the rest should be tolerated, but treated in the same way as the BNP (i..e not allowed any public money and met with protest whereever they go?).
I think EDL have had something like 20 or 25 demos now. Considering that each demo must have at least 20 “marshalls”, I challenge AliG to provide proof that even 10% of the “marshalls” at each demo are BNP councillors. I think it is a lie, and that he cannot substantiate this smear.
What is clear is that the EDL are a hate group. Are we going down the route of some hatred being more acceptable than others?
@queer.com — Since you think everything is so “clear”, WTF is a “hate group”? Can you define it? Are all “hate groups” equally unacceptable? Can you point me to the demonisation of Hizb ut Tahrir? Most educated and informed people I talk to in Britain have never heard of Hizb ut Tahrir.
Hizb ut Tahrir calls for the execution of gay people in Britain had a conference in Wembley with 10,000 muslims in attendance? No-one seems to care about islamo-fascists because they (mostly) have brown skin.
Does EDL say they want to kill muslims? No. Does EDL say they want to ensure non-muslims never have official employment? No. Does EDL say they want to install an anti-muslim dictatorship? No.
You need to wake up.
James, the term hate group is self explanatory and, like the EDL, Hizb ut Tahrir falls into that category. I am familiar with the group and recall, in my student days, campaigning for them to be banned from the student union. I am not sure what exactly the aim of your pro-EDL/pro-hate rant is designed to achieve but it is clear you are promoting an agenda rather than discuss the issue at hand. I despise all hate and bigotry and will not be a party to its propogation, therefore, I will ignore all your future posts.
edl is an extreme org that in mental stakes can be compared to majority of extreme muslim groups and therefore cannt be viewed as credible alternative
@andy. And of course you are more of an expert on political extremism than the UK’s specialist police unit on domestic extremism, who said last year that the EDL “are not an extreme right-wing organisation”. They employ 100 analysts and have an annual budget of £8 million, but of course, you know better.
Here is a story (by socialists) of a supposedly moderate mosque in Luton that in 2010 was distributing official literature calling for gay people to be executed.
Please show me the official statement from EDL were they call for muslims to be executed. You can’t, because the EDL do not want violence against muslims.
Yet you think that an officially non-extreme organisation that welcomes black people, jews, gay people and muslims is AS BAD as muslim terrorists and violent homophobes?
so you will be no doubt familiar with below:
” proposed march in Luton in September 2009 was banned by the police, citing a threat to public safety. There is normally heavy policing of these demonstrations, due to the likelihood of violence. The cost of policing these demonstrations has ranged from £300,000 to £1 million. Journalists that have covered EDL marches have received death threats, for instance journalist Jason N. Parkinson from The Guardian wrote about receiving a death threat by email from someone he described as an EDL organiser, as well as death threats sent to Marc Vallée, a fellow journa list. The National Union of Journalists also released a statement about journalist who had been intimidated after covering EDL demonstrations.”
pls be free to logon on to wiki to find more, but ofcoz you prob will know it already
sorry, couldnt help myself
“…..Four specialist national police units involved in policing hooliganism, extreme violence, and terrorism are investigating the EDL…”
So if EDL is a hate group that makes Anti-Facist groups also hate groups then.
The only reason the EDL formed was because they wanted to make a stand against muslim extremist in the same way anti-facist groups make a stand against the BNP.
Truth is there is no difference between the BNP and an extremist group like Islam4UK. They are both extremist groups that people feel strongly about.
Being they are both extremist and a thread to society Why don’t anti-facist group protest against Islam4UK? Doesn’t that make anti-facist groups hypocrites and borderline racist which is something they rightly campaign against?
This is why the EDL was set up. They are not right wing. They have been painted very negative by the media and yes some disgruntled BNP members have hijacked them but if Anti-Facist groups were to protest ALL extremists that pose a threat to the UK they’d be no need!
@ James …more of this segregation shyte. Whats the need for Gay, Jewish, Muslim, (Black… are there any blacks in EDL?) Divisions. Can’t you see you are still segregated and not good enough for the main EDL. Ever wondered who is in the main group. I’m betting right wing, white, anglo saxon protestants or WASPSs as they say in the USA. The whole setup is just the BNP under another name if you could just open your eyes and brain and see that.
I must admit that while undoubtedly some of the EDL seem to be BNP types, it does not seem to be the majority. The march in dagenham was mainly working class white folks (Dagenham is 80% white) but there were black people marching in with the crowd, they did not have a separate bit at the back
Of course most people in EDL are straight and white — that’s the same demographic as most of the people in the UK.
As an organisational structure EDL is based on Divisions because originally EDL was structurally related to football casuals. By focusing on local structures it means they could organise on a basis of knowledge and trust. Thus, there was a Luton Division, a Bolton Division, a Halifax Division, etc.
The gay divisions and the jewish divisions were two of the first non-regional divisions. They were followed by others non-regional divisions.
@ EDL supporter…. you haven’t answered my question… who or what is the main grouping made up of…. If my memory serves me right, we have seen and regretted allowing a similar group to flourish in Germany in the 1930s. These facist groups need to be stamped out quickly otherwise history is destined to be repeated and we know who the losers will be.
@ james Do you require the same garauntee from xtian applicants..ie that they aren’t fundies…..???
Pastor Terry Jones invited himself to speak at the Luton demo. When the EDL found out he was homophobic they told him he was not welcome.
I thought that was common knowledge.
good on the edl.
Also I just read that the out east group opposes gay imperialism, and the east end gay pride march. WTF
This group claims to represent gay people. If they were black they would be called uncle toms.
This si ridiculous, I dont care if your faith says you should be able to treat me worse because of how i am born. This is my country, a secular country, a country governed by law. If you dont like it fcuk OFF!
Man the EDL are getting more and more appealing. Maybe repatriation of first generation immigrants who are hateful is a good idea. See how much they like leaving the UK with its legally guarenteed freedoms, healthcare andliberalism.
Then we will see if they still complain about gay imperialism.
Scott, your comments not only appear to take the groups views out of context but also lead you to a conclusion that is difficult to reconcile with your view of a secular, liberal free country.
see the link below for Out East’s considered response to the east end pride march (note, there is no reference to gay imperialism):
Yes but on your homepage you say you oppose gay imperialism, not at all secularism says those who wish the state to impose their views on religion must not be challenged.
Now onto your response:
It is our right as citizens of this country to march wherever we damn well please, if it may offend those who hate gay people, that is there problem not ours. If we agree to not march because we may offend some people then we might as well stop LGBT events everywhere. So what if people are offended, people who believe in god offend me, but I dont challenge their right to march.
There is NO evidence that the EDL put up the stickers.
UAF have likely not been invited due to their willingness to stand with speakers who promote the execution of gay people. The N@zis killed gay people because they were gay, yet UAF refuses to condemn those who would kill gays because of the way they are born. This is largely because the UAF have become a front for the SWP, a party that can no longer find …
..any support from working class communities they have instead decided to couple with islamists. Thinking as the socialists did in Iran 1979 that Islamist anger at the status quo can be used as a means to get socialism. UAF no longer stands against f@ascism.
Homophobia is present amongst all groups, yet for different reasons, and it is more concentrated amongst certain groups. Everyone agress that homophobia is more prevalent amongst evangelical xians than atheists, so why is it offensive to say it is prevalent amongst muslims?
You are idiots if you think recent cuts in public services have caused homophobia. That is such a self evidently dumb statement that I do not know how to respond.
How is saying – lets all oppose homophobia – a method of dividing gays and muslims? This is only the case if muslims support homophobia.
I to stand against racism, yet I do not also go actually could “we shut rape crises centres as these do not talk about issues of race”. You are an embarrasment
Scott, I didn’t realise I had a homepage… still can’t see any reference to imperialism on the Out East webpage. It may well be your right to march but nobody is under any obligation to support your march, indeed it is each individuals democratic right to oppose it should they choose.
You should really try not to jump to conclusions about my affinities and who I speak for (which is, incidentally, just myself).
It sounds to me like your view of this country is, freedom and democracy if you agree with us… not really freedom then is it?
Regardless of what you may think of the UAF and I agree, they do have something to answer for, how democratic is it to ban them yet encourage the EDL?
Moreover, i live in east London and would take more seriously the concerns of a local, ground roots organisation than outsiders who base their views on media coverage.
I was talking about out east webpage, i apologise I thought you were involved.
- yes it is someones right not to attend, but they are not attending as it might upset homophobes, thus ridiculing the whole idea of LGBT organisations.
- Take all my indications of you to mean “out east”.
- No, people are free to disagree with me, they should just not get public money or be respected if they are a hate group. Muslim groups are too often accepted into the fold, despite the fact if a christian organisation said they same thing they would be classed as a hate group. Those who oppose gay and womens rights should be treated like the BNP, not imprisoned, but ignored.
Also, I live in Dagenham, the BNP heartland, so I know full well the need to challenge hate groups, no matter their religion.
Further lies from ‘queer.com’ and his Socialist Worker fascist-enabling friends – the organisers of East End Pride ARE Eastenders. Stop repeating lies about their being outsiders. They are not.
PS – you have every right to say what you please, no one is depriving you of that – but remember, we have those freedoms too. We will also exercise our democratic freedom to say what we think of you and the ludicrous Out East organisation. And it is high time you got used to it. Take the criticism on the chin.
@ Scott excuse my ignorance but can someone enlighten me as to what Gay Imperialism is .It sounds nasty but i want to know???
Its some BS postmodernist mumbo jumbo, which says the white man is being racist when he criticises the execution of gays in other countries. They say that supporting universal human rights is a modern incarnation of the “white mans burden”.
It is total BS, and those who declare they believe in gay imperialism are either idiots or racists.
Why is it imperialist to believe that just because someone has brown skin they will still value human rights?
@ Scott Is it not racist to say that just because someone has brown skin they will Not value human rights. Your comments has just demonstrated why facist groups like the EDL and BNP support Israels shameful treatment of the Palestinians. The Israeli thugs are seen as white while the Palestinians are as you say Brown skinned. Clear and utter Racism.
@Scott…. well i guess i just became a Gay Imperialist as i do subscribe to the white mans burden of universal human rights. Especially as the white man failed so miserably universally to support human rights when it suited him wherever he went on his murderous spree of killing indiginous peoples around the world. I’m sure you are familiar with the term in relation to the Union Jack The Butchers Apron , where the sun never sets and the blood never dries.
The Hackney Pride March statement is a disgrace.
1. We do know who was responsible for the stickers. We know it was NOT the EDL, but indeed an 18 year-old youth of Asian origin.
2. The joint statement with the East London Mosque and Rainbow Hamlets is an insult to decency, to integrity, to truth. Two sets of unelected self-serving community leaders claiming to sepak on behalf of their communities, with no authority to do so.
3. Hackney Pride effectively believes a mere statement of pride, is an offense to muslims. More than just cowardice in the face of intimidation, this in itself is anti-muslim bigotry.
4. As for this EDL link – this is lame.
Hackney Pride = Gay Shame!!! Boycott this event in September. What goes around comes around, Terry.
Adrian, I see you are another one to throw around labels to anyone who dares to disagree with you – where does that stand with freedom of speech?
I am not a member of any of the organisations you have mentioned nor have I made my mind up about as to whether or not I as an Eastender, would participate. Out East have highlighted a range of concerns that you may or may not agree with, however, they have done a lot of ground roots to combat hatred. Having been a steward on numerous occasions at Pride London, having seen gay people abuse hurl abuse at the Imaan (LGBT Muslim support group), what are the East End Pride organisers going to do to ensure that pride goers don’t antagonise the locals (Muslim or not) and what are they going to do to ensure that it is an inclusive event?
Well, you’ve had your free speech and i am having mine. I’m not stopping you, but if you write rubbish, then you should face the consequences.
How on earth can asserting pride be antagonistic? If people are offended by the sight of LGBT people showing pride, tough.
Out East is in denial about the real problem of islamic extremism in LBTH, glossing over hate speech. It tells lies about the stickers being ‘most likely the work of EDL’ when we know this NOT to be true. It smeared the organisers as being outsiders, being EDL affilliated in that appalling statement in friday. All because they told UAF (who protested WITH Anjem Choudary last year) and SWP to buzz off.
There’s a difference between ‘inclusiveness’ and turning blind eye to hate speech. I don’t want unity with hate-speech enablers. I want them locked up or kicked out of the UK.
Of course anti-muslim bigotry is wrong. When LGBT people safely walk hand in hand in Whitechapel, only then can you say you’ve done a good job
PS Out East are welcome not to support it. They felt it important to make a statement and send it out as an official press release.
I was harsh on you queer.com because you reiterated an already debunked falsehood, and that won’t do.
Adrian, I had no intention of reiterating a falsehood. I stand corrected, East End Pride is organised by a group of locals and I hope the focus stays local and in line with the stated aims of the organisers… who knows i might even don my pink wig and come along (although I don’t think I could do the whole drag thing…. haven’t got the legs for it!)
Out East don’t get it. The march would show Everyone that homophobia is not acceptable. Out East should stop making excuses and instead try seeing the positive but having said that if they belong to Rainbow Hamlets then I guess excuses is all there good at, say no more.
The only reason Out East don’t want this to go ahead is because it’s not going to line anyones pockets with profit. Its a message only Pride of support and against homophobia.
Clearly money and blowing ones own trumpet is far more important to Out East than peoples safety.
There is opposition to this march , because the out east group know the blood will flow if it goes ahead. lgbt already get attacked at/after london pride .There is an awareness that you are entering a hate zone to march and there could be fatal consequences after. And remember now if you wish to uphold english , secular values , you are lazily labelled a racist as a means of controling you., and a time is already here where those who oppose your values want you to “fcuk OFF”.
lgbt people faced with sheer brutality bravely march in moscow, budapest, warsaw etc. to uphold their beliefs in human rights and equality, they are the ones with real courage which is so clear in contrast to your armchair patronising
Coming from a treacherous islamofacist apologist like you , i’ll take your stupid remark as a compliment. If i was a paranoid edl conspiracist like so many idiots here, then i would say you were a edl ruse, sent to encourage lgbt to join by your irrational rants against human rights and equality. You contradict yourself without awareness.
no doubt your are intelectualy chalenged, so im gonna make it simple this time. u can not seriously compare eastern european marches with those in established democracies. ur silly comments about apocaliptic nature of east end gay pride that u attributed to out east as a real reason not to back march just demean real courage of those who risk their lives to fight for basic equality in eastern europe and other parts of world where people risk their lives just for being lgtb. as for the first sentence of your monosylabic rambling, it clearly and accuraetly ilustrate extent of ur paranoia and there is not a lot if anything about you i could complement whether or not contradicting myself with or without awareness.
people risk their lives by being lgbt in london/england also, or do you dispute that fact considering a gay man has been murdered in the main square at peak time. you are a simpleton incapable of reading my above comment correctly . i was making a suggestion as to why the out east group disproved of the march .. Why can you not read comments correctly?And there is also the possiblity that there will be counter violence to the march , that is a reality. you must be very naive to make your naive assumptions online about who has courage in the face of adversity or not. I have endured adversity throughout my life for being openly gay in a very hostile environment daily. Not everyone lives in a phoney liberal bubble world like you . As for eastern europe , you want to use it as a point of deflection because you are in a state of denial .
i find it hilarious when someone asumes so much about other people without even ever meeting them, so far i’ve been called hard done by black guy, pc leftie and treacherous islamofacist apologist and that just recently.
as for “….As for eastern europe , you want to use it as a point of deflection because you are in a state of denial …”
well actually i have been to warsaw pride, which by the way is not just about lgbt, some of us actually do care and attend other prides then the ones in amsterdam or san francisco, so dont even think of lecturing me about state of denial.
you were the one making assumptions about me but you do not like it when it is reversed. you have a severe case of double standards. Good for u on having your day of pride in warsaw … but some of us wear our pride every day of the year in every environment so don’t expect brownie points for going to pride. some of us care enough to present visibility all year round.
Yet another asumption about double standarts on ur part, unlike you i tend to conclude not asume.
Funny thing is u dont even know my views, be it about islam or anything else for that matter and instead of just ask me about them u keep asuming, futher basing ur arguments around those asumptions.
“…., some of us care enough to present visibility all year round…”
u r doing that again, errr whats the word, errr ah yes patronising doh.
pls feel free to respond or whatever im gonna just enjoy my sunday, had enough of bigotery on this forum for 1 weekend.
ps: “….Good for u on having your day of pride in warsaw…. yea ive already pat myself on the back
Well said Rapture – it is a deliverance that an apologist for islamofascism like andy will not be there. One does not need to be an EDL supporter to come to that conclusion of course.
hi, honey why dont you just go and get yourself a drink and leave my boyfriend alone
Oh thats such an educated response…. Not!! What are you 12? Laughable but Pathetic.
You saying I’m going too far now? I’ve hardly got my trousers down andy! And with Tower Halmets’ propaganda machine stepping up against the LGBT people who really want to make a positivie community in the run up to April 2nd, there is plenty more to come from me if you care to stick around xxx
Yes, andy is an idiot, he pats himself on the back for going to pride, then back to his yearly safe environment, he must think he’s freedom fighter now.. Anyhow hes a waste of air , you can’t reason with stupidity and i don’t have time for his petty squabbling .
Rapture:”you are lazily labelled a racist as a means of controling you” ….. moaning that you are labelled a racist for a set of values the BNP/EDL would be proud of yet you are quick to label someone else for disagreeing with you: “Coming from a treacherous islamofacist apologist like you”
So who exactly is throwing around labels to control and stifle debate? POT, KETTLE, BLACK comes to mind.
I was stating fact not making baseless assumptions. Thats your speciality.
It’s appalling to see that the culprit was released without charge.
The Tories are proposing elected police chiefs, and when that happens I can just see this as becoming the norm. After all why would they prosecute homophobic abuse if they think there are more votes to be had from homophobes and the Muslim community.
agreed. The elected police chiefs will utterly fail gay people everywhere except brighton.
No doubt the nitwits at Rainbow Hamlets are so proud about the reloease of this thug, in the name of ‘community cohesion’ or something.
PS Tower Hamlets’ No Hate campaign of pseudotolerance criminalises criticism of religion, by making ‘faith hate’ a hate crime.
Does any one ever think we would have more luck if we stopped saying being LGBT is a sexuality, but instead said it was religion?
THen everyone would jump at defending our rights.
What should we call our god?
How times a day do we need to pray tp that god?
Also can we make mushrooms an abomination, I really dont like mushrooms.
gays are seconds class citizens as clearly demonstrated by the police who try and provide a lips service withh their LGBT officers.
So it is oK in to put up hate posters , that is what the police are saying.
The police have to answer as to why the will not procecute ..the real reason is they are terrified of muslims.
What has Peter Thatchel got to say about this ?
If we would all forget about people around us, if we would walk around hand in hand and show each other affection in public, if we would act like we have same right, if we would demand same rights with actions and real life then we could complain. Until we live in prison of Soho and ZOO of Vauxhall we have no right to complain as we don’t deserve them. We have to claim them and live them. Jews did. They succeed. Black people did! They succeed. Muslim did! They succeed. It is our birth right and we act like we need permission for being alive. Shame on us and remember: ” Almost every homophobe turns out to be closeted queen”. Fight for your love by showing it. It takes real life to make real changes not just written word and gobbing. Dare to live.
Most of the gay bars in east London have closed down. Ten years ago my street had 5 gay households in 20 houses, now I’m the only one left. I can go weeks and weeks before I see anyone who looks like they might be gay.
Anyone who could leave would be stupid to stay put when they are surrounded by manifestations of a religion whose adherents and institutions have no problem saying “homosexuals should be killed”.
I’m sure that millions of the jews who were forced into gas chambers would have left Germany if they had the chance too.
EDL supporter, is that you again James peddling your hate agenda?
i do and apologise to no one. But i have been attacked on oxford street in the day for kissing my fella. i had to move out of previous home due to being beaten up and continued harassment. Been punched, spat at, threatened with murder , jaw dislocated etc all in a supposedly tolerant city for being gay. i have always kicked up a fuss bout the hate crime. i don’t live in gay ghetto and would’nt want to . but to mention your point about watching peeps around us , you need to be alert as violent homophobia is prevalent and there may well be a “fight” for showing who you love. .
Jack Gilbert, co-chair of Rainbow Hamlets blamed the stickers on the EDL:
If someone is charged, will he resign?
Can you and others who feel strongly about the misleading article in the Hackney Post tell them why they are wrong?
1. Rainbow Hamlets propagated an urban myth, based on wishful thinking.
2. Rainbow hamlets colludes with a unelected, non representative groups like the LCB, and has let the community down by refusing to condemn the ELM for hosting hate preachers.
3. Scandalously, it propagates another myth – RH / Outeast is trying to smear the East End Pride event as an EDL-affilliated event. (EDL declined to comment – as far as they are concerned, it suits them perfectly for people to think this). They have no evidence again.
4. Yes, there is a problem with Islamic extremism, not just for gays, but for women being forced to wear headscarves, and non-muslim councillors.
Tell them on Twitter
Another urban myth is that rainbow hamlets are(allegedly) a support to lgbt in the borough.
No doubt Rainbow Hamlets will conclude that this person caught WITH these posters, who is understood to be Asian, had these offending items planted on his person without his knowledge.
It is time for those in Rainbow Hamlets to make a choice.
Do they carry on help support and making excuses for the hate criminals? Or do they actually they help support those in which they are set up to help?
We are getting to the point where people associated with the EDL are considering taking libel action against organisations who knowingly report lies about us.
“What has Peter Thatchel got to say about this ?”
I am sorry but Peter Tatchell doesn’t do ‘enough’ to tackle Muslim homophpobia. WHen I say ‘enough’ I mean in comparison to what he does to confront Christian (or BNP) homophobia.
That is definitely NOT true Sam
Peter Tatchell as done more than anyone in this country for gay rights and human rights. He has been not only active in tackling Muslim homophobia for many years, well before the mass media and the armchair activists knew what was going on. See his article written in 1995: http://www.petertatchell.net/religion/islamic.htm
Tatchell was sounding the alarm bells long ago, and all credit to him. If moderate muslims had driven Hizb ut Tahrir out of Britain, there would be no EDL.
When Tatchell was pointing out what Hizb ut Tahrir was up to in universities 15 years ago, nothing was done, and the same anti-gay and anti-semitic hatred is going on still in universities.
The Left like SWP, UAF, Labour Party and Searchlight did nothing to help Tatchell. Because Leftards are too racist to stand up to islamic fundamentalism.
In a democratic country, how do you expect moderate Muslims to drive somebody out? Moreover, I suggest you read this this times article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article670249.ece
highlighting how the authorities turned a blind eye to Abu Hamza after complaints by Imams and mosques here in the UK. Peter Tatchell wasn’t airing his concerns in isolation.
In 2009 Hizb ut Tahrir had a conference attended by 10,000 muslim fanatics all wanting the Caliphate restored (and sharia law, and death for homos). In 2009 Hizb ut Tahrir had their conference in The Troxy.
15 years ago a handful of gay men and lesbians from Outrage were protesting at Hizb ut Tahrir conferences, and suffering death threats.
If the million or 2 million moderate muslims protested at Hizb ut Tahrir conferences, then such conferences would not be able to take place.
Muslims can join EDL if they want. But instead muslims from Baroness Warsi on the right to the UAF on the left are telling muslims “do not join the EDL”. So, muslims must be held responsible for their own failures to root out the fascists in their communities who are calling for the abolition of democracy and the execution of gay men.
queer.com suffers from what Ayaan Hirsi Ali (a black ex-muslim woman, living under constant threat of death from muslims) calls “the racism of low expectations”. queer.com thinks that muslims are inferior people, and incapable of taking robust collective action against islamo-fascists. When it is laid out explicitly to the racist queer.com what kind of action muslims could have taken, queer.com changes the subject. If muslims had protested against the rise of islamo-fascism, homophobia, and threats of assassination the EDL would not exist.
I notice earlier in this discussion that AliG expected James to automatically discount The Guardian’s report on the Gallup survey showing that there was “zero tolerance” for homosexuality amongst British muslims. Now queer.com is demanding that we take a Guardian journalist’s unsubstantiated allegations seriously. What is it to be — are The Guardian journalists to be considered credible or are they to be dismissed out of hand as liars?
“…..to the racist queer.com….”
“….If muslims had protested against the rise of islamo-fascism, homophobia, and threats of assassination the EDL would not exist…..” lack of protesting against religion’s more extreme ideology is prevalent in every faith, so not sure why u would single out muslims for criticism. i dont see christians protesting that loudly against god hates fags church .
EDL supporter, quite clearly the racist here is you and your organisation. I have in fact pointed out that Muslims in this country did take action but in a civilised society, it for the authorities to take decisive action.
@andy get another nick you r confusing people, im already using andy nick name
Yes, these black people, muslims, ex-muslims, sikhs, jews, hindus, etc. are all racists according to the defenders of islamo-fascism like queer.com and andy:
Defending democracy and diversity from groups like Hizb ut Tahrir, Islam4UK, IFE, etc. is not fascism.
Clearly queer.com and andy are not just racists, but are the proponents of fascism themselves. They make so much noise about it as a diversionary action.
EDL Supporter: I hear what you are against. But what values do you stand FOR? I’d love to know. Jeremy paxman made a fool of you all on Newsnight because you couldn’t really say.
The problem I have is that the guy who runs your organisation demonises all muslims – I never hear him differentiate between the very real problem of Islamic extremism, and the muslims who do also share human rights values. he never shows the remotest concern for muslims who live in fear of their llocal religious leaders. It’s dangerous language.
Secondly, human rights are not English, values; they are universal. You use Crusader imagery, taking inspiration from the very same religious fanaticism which we in the west have escaped from, and which is the inspiration for the stickers talked about in this story.
Are you now saying that having a tiny minority of people who aren’t football hooligans proves that you are not a racist organisation? or are you suggesting that racism is the sole patrimony of white people?
Furthermore, i fail to see what your youtube link is supposed to prove, I see hatemongers being asked leave and being told to get their facts right!
You have still failed to answer the issues raised with regards to the EDL’s relationship with the BNP!
It is clear from all the EDL’s Tommy Robinson made it clear on newsnight that you are targetting all Muslims and if anyone still has any doubts that the EDL is a hatemongering, rightwing racist bunch of hooligans see them in action in Leicester:
GO AND PEDDLE YOUR HATE ELSEWHERE! I am done with you!
Correction: the Hizb ut Tahrir conference with 10,000 attendees was held in 2002.
EDL supporter, rather than lecturing us on other organisations and expounding the very dubious virtues of your hate organisation, perhaps you could respond to comments above by Andy about the EDL. Before you carry on peddling your hate agenda!
Morevoer, this talk of “driving people out” wreaks of fascism!
And what have the UAF and SWP been claiming for the last few years? That they would drive the EDL from the streets. Who are the fascists there then? Groups that want to destroy democracy should be destroyed – our ancestors fought too hard for these rights for us to just stand by and let anti-democratic forces destroy them.
When jewish and pakistani members of EDL went to the UAF/One Society Many Cultures conference to show them photos of the non-white people in EDL, the left-wing islamo-fascist supporters at that conference attacked those jewish and pakistani women.
But of course queer.com approves of left-wing and islamo-fascism.
@ queer.com “moreover this talk…. ….” I agree. Trains, gas chambers, 1930s and concentration camps come to mind scarily.
@queer.com….I think what he means is why is Peter Tatchell not a racist…….That is the nub of the matter with these facist groups. nothing whatever to do with homophobia. Shouting about Muslim homophobia is merely a smoke screen. If Muslim homophobia vanished tomorrow they would just revert to type…Queer bashing.
On comments on Ireland – violent hate groups did exist amongst both catholics and protestants did exist in Northern Ireland, groups that are far more violent than the BNP have ever been. So your comment that WASP hate is always the worst is just ridiculous.
Before you screech that I know nothing My father’s name is Conchobhar and he lived in Omagh until 1987 we he finally got fed up with the hate and left.
- On the gay imperialism: why is it racist to say human rights to be universal? I didnt say it was a white man burden to spread them, I said that it was foolish critiques accuse those of us of behaving under because we believe in universal human rights.
I agree that the oppression felt by the palestinians is terrible. However, this supports my argument that human rights must be universal. The fact that a some religious crzy believes certain people do not deserve them is immaterial. I am entirely consistent in my support of Human rights, I condemn the actions of…
@ Scott Try as i might i find it impossible to understand most of what you have written in your posts. May I respectfully suggest you rewrite them tomorrow when you have sobered up if in fact that is whats going on .One thing i did recognise was the word screech. I am not wont to screeching and i hope your father is suitably ashamed of having raised a racist islamophobe like you. The “violent hate groups ” that you talk of are a mystery to me and i didn’t run away. Im’m still here. There were paramilitary groups yes with ploitical aims not hatred racist or otherwise. The IRA came into being after the British Army shot dead 14 unarmed civilians,mostly teenage boys on a peaceful civil rights march in August 1969. The various loyalist paramilitery groups came into being as a rebuff to the IRA., although the UDA had existed since the days of and in resistance to Irish Home Rule. in the late 1800s.
Again i will repeat that i said where there is a preponderance of WASPs . ….cont,,,
@scott…cont….noone in the north of Ireland can be construed as being a WASP. They are either Irish or Ulster Scots. Tha fact that the protestants of the north identify as British does not make them WASP. In regard to what you said about Gay imperialism… this is what you said verbatum “Its some BS postmodernist mumbo jumbo, which says the white man is being racist when he criticises the execution of gays in other countries. They say that supporting universal human rights is a modern incarnation of the “white mans burden”.
It is total BS, and those who declare they believe in gay imperialism are either idiots or racists.
Why is it imperialist to believe that just because someone has brown skin they will still value human rights?” and this was my responsePaddyswurds 4 hours ago Report Reply
@ Scott Is it not racist to say that just because someone has brown skin they will Not value human rights. Your comments has just demonstrated why facist groups like the EDL and BNP.cont
@ Scott . support Israels shameful treatment of the Palestinians. The Israeli thugs are seen as white while the Palestinians are as you say Brown skinned. Clear and utter Racism. While it is certainly not imperialist it is certainly racist to say that just because they are brown skinned they would NOT support universal human rights. How you think i dont condem attacks on GLBs in this country leaves me mystified. But i contend that you do not support universal human rights if you continue to be racist toward Asians and continue to support Islamophobia.
Ok I shall use grammar and paragraphs to debunk everything you have said.
On Ireland: Unless we have visited very different places (I have admittedly only been to Omagh and Belfast) but there is a level of hatred between protestant and catholic communities that is similar to racist. Many in either community seem to believe that the other is innately evil or sick. Please, people who hurt civilians, be they protestant or catholic, are hate groups. To say otherwise is just silly. I am not denying that Catholics were treated horrendously in Northern Ireland, just that this gross maltreatment in no way justifies the slaughter of innocents.
My point was that your claim that WASPs hate is worse than celtic hate or any the hate of any other group is demonstrably wrong when you look at NIreland. I live in Dagenham, the BNP have done many horrific things here , but they have never organised the deaths of civilians.
Cont. Find anywhere where I have been racist or Islamaphobic. If you actually bothered to look at what I have written in this thread I have said that it is wrong to generalise to all Muslims. It is clearly the case that Islam is a wide and diverse religion that has many different interpretations. For example Sufi Muslims are very tolerant and very liberal. However I am also not so blind as to ignore the fact that other peoples interpretation, in the same way as some peoples interpretation of christianity, is fascist, and deserves to be shown as such. How on earth is this either racist or islamaphobic? Its not Islamaphobia to say some people hold a form of a religion that I believe needs to be protested against, it is their right to believe what they want, but it is my right to protest against such beliefs. I would equally protest against the Pope and groups such as Christian voice. …
@ scott in conclusion it was you who used the word Imperialism…I ask you to explain what you meant and that is what you replied. Gay people i know are not racist when they say it is within anyones, white, black or Brown capacity to support universal human rights. Anyone gay or else thinks it Is the White mans burden to support universal human rights.
No gay person i know has ever said it is racist to condemn the execution of gay people overseas, and all do wholeheartedly condemn such executions. As a gay man in post industrial Europe i am dismayed that there are gay men who are as hate filled as you demonstrate. Two wrongs don’t make a right and an eye for an eye make us all blind. I suggest you determine the meaning of Imperialism before anyone else asks you what you think Gay Imperialism is ….
Either I have not explained what I meant about gay imperialism, or you have misunderstood.
I was saying that everyone can support human rights. Irrespective of Skin colour or what religion they choose. I never said brown skinned people do not respect human rights, what I was alluding too was the fact that many pseudo liberal white middle class people seem to assume that Brown skinned people are against human rights, or do not support them.
This is rubbish. I support fully and can think of many examples of people of all ethnic minorities and belief system who say human rights are universal and hatred against gays is wrong.
My point was that members of the white middle class chatterati are using race as a reason to not criticise fundamentalists in our cities, who hold values which go against our liberal values.
dnt accuse me of racism towards Asians. I havent said anything racist at all. I said brown skinned as a sarcastic device, I am sorry if it did not travel well via webtalk
@ scott ….so you think that a few days visit to a couple of urban centers in the north of Ireland makes you an expert on the place and its people. How did you detect this hatred that you say exists between Catholice and Protestants. i didn’y run away in the 80s and still live here amongst catholics and protestants and have never detected the level of hatred i have seen displayed on this thread towards Asians and Muslims. I As you say there are various shades of Muslim but not once tonite did i see any one group singled out Just Muslims. As i said before i hope your father is proud of the Racist thug he has raised in England. I am only too glad he left. Your sort we can do without now that we are finally getting our act together. I have to point out that getting our act together only took place once the British, especially the murderous army left and our cousins in America got involved Bill Clinton et al.
I just read you last comment. Clearly you did Misunderstand me about gay imperialism.
I was attacking the belief held by some middle class white people that it is racist to believe all ethnic minorities could support human rights. As this is what the concept of gay imperialism entails.
Gayimperialism is basically saying – non europeans cant understand gay rights. I think such a claim is rubbish. Especially considering the fact Shinto, Buddhist and Hindu areas have a very long and historic acceptance of gay people.
Also what hate have I expressed? I do not see how supporting a march in East London against those who try to drive out gay men from their area, gay men who may be white, brown, black, muslim, xian, atheist, agnostic, Pastafarians etc is racist?
@ scott Where you got the idea that middle class white people think it is racist to believe ethnic could support human rights is a mystery. Quite the opposite There is consternation amongst some middle classes that some racists believe that ethnics CANT grasp the concept of Democracy or human rights. As one british pundit remarked recently, “The Arabs just don’t do rights or democracy” What a total heap of racist shyte and is the reason so many people around the world absolutely abhor the British. the lack of democracy and or human rights around the world amongst ethnics is a direct result of British Imperialism when ethnics were denied democracy and where the politics of divide and conquer was the norm. look at the mess left behind by the british in Africa, India and Pakistan Palestine Ireland Afganistan Iraq and others. The conduct of British imperialists in the Americas and Australia where most of the natives were wiped out is a shame that will forever haunt the WASP.
… Israel and I condem the actions of those hate churches or Mosques in this country that preach death to gays.
I dont care if someone says their culture has over 1000 years of saying gays should die. Your culture is wrong.
You are the hypocrite as you seem to think it is ok to condem the actions of israel, but will not condemn those in this country who spread hate and attack gay people.
“if you said you were fed up with these religious homophobes,christian, muslim or indeed hindu or sikh”
Because Muslims are, by and large, the most viciously homophobic.
“Calling anyone vile creatures or pigs, just because they were indoctrinated and brought up in a homophobic faith”
They may have been brainwahed into this vile religion but that’s not going to save them from my condemnation. I’m sure racists have been brought up that way as well, but that shouldn’t excuse their behaviour.
@ SamB….you think so, really. You conveintly ignore the atrocities carried out in the name of christianity during the Inquisation. You also conveinently ignore the atrocities carried outon Muslims by the Crusaders who were for the most part by the way white and British. to what do you attribute your continued Racism and blatant Islanophobia. Have you ever wondered why British mmuslims are as you say so radicalised while in the rest of the world they are not. The rest of the world didn’t and doesn’t continue to cause death and destruction in their home countries, like Pakistan, where they support unelected or puppet government. Afganistan, where the British murdered millions of Muslim Afgans in the 19th century, and now support an imperialist power the United States to to murder even more Muslim Afgans in the guise of getting rid of the Taliban. It is up to the Afgan people to get rid of the Taliban if they wish, not western Imperialists. The real reason the British and …cont
well this is just wrong. The crusades were ordered by the Holy Roman Empire and were committed in large part by Europeans; especially the franks, but no doubt there were some Brits there.
Wrong the French were involved at the invitation of the British. pointing out that the crusades were at the behest of the vatican is redundant. everything that took place in those times was at the behest of the Pope but That does goes nowhere near excusing the British involvement in it. Dont you consifer the British to be Europeansc btw.?
Suppoort for facist groups like the EDL and BNP is a manifest of hatred in my opinion.
cont…Americans are trying to subdue Afganistan is so the Americans can build an oil pipeline from Kazikstan to the Gulf of Oman, so Americans can continue to drive 12 mile to the gallon Hummers. The so called elected president of Afganistan is nothing more than a paid American stooge. While non of this excuses Islamic homophobia it certainly indicates why the asian and muslim communities in the UK are so radicalised. Muslim asians in New Zealand or Belgium or any other country where the emigrate in numbers are not radicalised. Any thoughts on why YOU think that is.
The march should be held and it should include statement against both homophobia and racism and gay/lesbian Muslims from all over the city should be encouraged to attend and be included. Don’t let racism and islamaphobia become the issue – make it anti-homophobia and anti-racism. If the local organizers don’t like this, too bad. Bring in supporters from all over London.