What a stupid comment; ‘indecisive about who they are’. She has very clearly made a firm decision about who she is!
“I’m not sure you want someone who’s indecisive…”…doesn’t sound very decisive himself!
I don’t see why people think transgender people are “indecisive” when almost all begin to feel like they belong to the opposite sex during early childhood, and remain so until death. Doesn’t sound particularly “indecisive” to me.
All the best Sandra!
…could someone please explain how this is a story on a gay web page. I see GLBT all the time, but as far as i’m aware 99.999% of Transgendered people claim not to be gay.Yesterday i noticed GLBTQ ffs. What does the Q stand for. Have i missed something while living out in the sticks.???
Oh and before the abuse starts, let me assure you whoever you are, I am Gay, i do know the trials and tribulations we have all been through and i am broadly educated. I,m not one of these numbskulls with a degree who can’t spell or discuss anything outside that degree so let’s be having you.
Let’s be having you? You’re the most aggressive person I’ve seen commenting on this website. Not everyone is out to abuse you or disagree with you, but you don’t do any favours for yourself by wording everything you say with an aggressive tone.
I think it’s undeniable that, whatever anyone thinks, transgender people come under the umbrella of discrimination based on sexual orientation. In a funny kind of way, they’re the only ‘straight’ ones in the group, and they get the worst of it! Whether individual gay people like me, or yourself, like it or not the rest of the world puts us in the same bracket. If you would prefer to be disassociated from transgendered people I can only assume that’s because you think lesser of them? In which case, perhaps you need to work on your own prejudices? That’s not abuse, just an opinion.
Plus, the footnote at the bottom of pinknews.co.uk clearly says “gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered community.” Which is why it’s here.
Chris, thank you for your comments. I totally support them!
Yeah, if someone is considered straight before the transition, then they’re gay after transition, if they’re considered gay before transition, they’re straight after they transition, but the idiot on the street doesn’t care, to them, we’re all a bunch of nancy boy faggots who’d be better of under a heavy truck than breath the same air (sorry, that sounds sooo extreme I know).
Hi Boston! The first third of the comments in the following thread consider this question in detail; there’s even a comment from the site founder. I hope that helps :)
And the ‘Q’ commonly stands for ‘Queer’, when the word is reclaimed as a positive self-descriptor.
..as i pointed out any transexuals i ever met , all of them trans women, including April Ashley btw, (giving away my age now) all claimed to be “straight…adamantly so” A trawl of the Interweb says most identify as straight however, but if you have figures, wherever they came from, well i stand corrected……Also i. I wonder how old you are tho, Louis,
Are you basing your figures on a tender age….i suuspect so. Aso i have no idea where you got the idea that i thought you must be attracted to men if your a woman and a lesbian. I rather find your assumption that as a man albeit gay man, i would assume you would be attracted to males insulting, and secondly to assume that i don’t know the defination of lesbian doubly insulting.
However you do fit the stereotype of an agressive lesbian when conversing with males, gay or straight. Calm down, girl.
@Sally …i fail to see how that article proves or disproves my assertion that the majority of transgender are straight.
The article isn’t intended to prove or disprove that particular assertion; I linked to the comments section so that you could see some of the thinking behind the inclusion of trans-related articles on this site.
I assume that the rest of your comment was actually a reply to Chris rather than to me?
Oh, it was in reply to Louise! Sorry, I didn’t see your clarification below.
…can’t see how that article , comments apart, proves or disproves my point Sally. As i pointed out below , any transgendered, all women, who i have met, have all claimed to be straght. Indeed April Ashley got quite upseet at being called Gay. She pointed out that if she were gay she would have stayed a man, as to go through all she had would be completely pointless were she gay. Are you perhaps saying that transgender only recognise their gayness after trans surgery. If so, to my mind that would be a tragedy. Louise says she is a lesbian trans woman. I fail to see what she has gained by her surgery.If she fancied women from the outset why didn’t she stay a man??? I am aware of the whole woman in a mans body and v v by the way but am still mystified by this whole gay thing some Trans claim.
As I possibly didn’t make clear enough, the article itself doesn’t have any relevance to your question – it’s the first third of the comments thread that I wanted to draw your attention to.
I totally agree with you that gender identity and sexuality are separate things. However, the oppressions that trans and LGB people faced are linked, and so many of us feel that it makes sense for us to stand together.
The comments in th article I linked to also clarify that this website is not just intended as a Gay News Service (it is unfortunate that its banner suggests that it is); it provides news relevant to LGBTQ people in all our diversity.
…If as someone pointed out The “Q” is for queer, then surely either “Q” or “G” is superflouis and unnecessary
I think there’s a bit of a divide in how “Queer” tends to be used by different people. Here, I guess it’s used as an all-encompassing term for anyone who isn’t both straight and cis – so someone who is pansexual, for example, would fit under the queer umbrella. But as not everybody self-identifies using the queer label, it’s useful to have LGBT there too.
The Wikipedia article on ‘queer’ discusses some of the pros and cons of this term.
Personally I dislike it, I have grown up in an environment where it’s never been anything else than a derogatory term to a gay man. If someone isn’t gay and identifies as ‘queer’ then I don’t see how the word is being ‘reclaimed’ because it was never aimed at them in the first place. It might sound childish, but it is not their word to reclaim, surely?
Maybe I’m just not a very worldly man, but I’ve never come across anyone either in real life or on the internet who has identified themselves as ‘queer’ in the spirit ‘LGBTQ’ intends. I would be interested to have a chat with someone that does though.
99.9999%! It’s quite common for trans people to identify as gay or bisexual maybe you should look up the statistics about it rather than making assumptions. We also go through quite a lot of the same prejudices and discrimination.
Also oh the whole being adamant about not being gay thing. Well I’m trans and a lesbian so like most lesbian’s I find the idea of men telling me all the time that I must really be attracted to men kind of insulting.
see above Louise
“transgender people come under the umbrella of discrimination based on sexual orientation” – not the view of Stonewall (UK), as at present.
If she wins, it may be her opposition to the smoking ban that does it.
@ Chris…I always thought sexual orientation was what was our “thing” but that the “thing” with transgendered was their being the wrong gender ie physiology…man on a womans body or v v. Hence my point about 99% of transgendered claim to be “straight”…. As for my agression…hardley a honey badger. You should read some of the posts on this site to see how agressive some of them can be. I posted this same question a couple years back and if text could kill i wouldn’t be here now, so i was getting the first shot in. Sorry if i alarmed you, i didn’t mean to.
@ Chris…ps…forgot to mention that no, i don’t have a prejudice toward Transgendered. Transgender and orientation are not the same thing whatever it says at the bottom of PN page.Indeed any Transgender people i’ve ever met (not many) were agressively adamant they weren’t gay as if that was something to be ashamed of. So if i seem prejudiced toward Transgender it’s because of that ….they aren’t one of “us”. I think it does us no favors to be associated with every group that comes down the track.
I cannot comment on how transgender people feel about being in the ‘LGBT’ term, I have met very few genuine transsexuals. Those that I have met however have been in gay bars and they were perfectly nice, fun and polite.
Just to clarify, I’m not trying to assert you are right or wrong, or that I’m right or wrong, I’m just sharing my evaluation of the situation. You asked why there is a ‘T’ when trans people don’t count themselves as gay, and when gay men aren’t uncomfortable with their gender. My answer is that whether the ‘T’ or the ‘G’ like it or not, the ignorant people out there see us as one of the same group. I don’t really mind their attachment to ‘LGB’ as I don’t want to see them discriminated against either. I don’t see the purpose in excluding them.
You also asked why trans news is on this website, and I was just pointing out the website’s purpose is written on the bottom of the page. The statement includes the word ‘transgendered’. That’s not to say pinknews.co.uk is right or wrong about whether or not ‘T’ should be included, but they do have the right to say what they’re going to put up on their website. They have decided to include transgendered news, and that’s why these stories are here.
If that isn’t a satisfactory answer then you’re really just posing your first question but in a different way.
may i just say i find some peoples attitude to Stonewall rather sad. No person or organisation is perfect but Stonewall has been instrumental in getting GLB rights and equalities to where they are today in the UK and those of us old enough to remember the stonewall riots are only too aware of that. Again i think the problem lies in the fact that young people are totally unaware of gay history and even worse don’t care. All they seem to care about is the “scene” and the past is “old”.
Again Boston, when the idiot(s) in the street are looking to beat someone up for their sexuality, how many of them do you think are going to ask that person’s sexuality? They’re not, they’re just going to start knocking seven shades out of them. Might I remind you, that under the T banner comes drag queens, who are mostly gay men. Also there are straight TV’s that come under T, and gay crossdressers under the T, and TS’s of all sexualities (this is as simple a breakdown I can make and no doubt others will have their own views).
So, when some idiot is beating you to the ground, woudl you like me to call the police to intervene, or to simply walk away because it’s nothing to do with me, it’s only about “your” sexuality?
I’m in my early 20s (just!) and I am fascinated by the history of gay rights, and have recently applied to be a volunteer for Stonewall. Granted I may be an anomaly but let’s not tarnish all young people with the same brush.
Boston: LGTBQ is intended to be inclusive.
I shouldn’t have to remind you of what some other people have said that supports inclusion, but here we are:
No man is an island entire of itself;…
because I am involved in mankind.
-John Donne 1572-1631
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. -Martin Luther King
They came first for the…
Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
-Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
So why don’t we add all the other letters of the alphabet so we rope in everyone and make sure we are totally “inclusive”………Sorry but i’m sticking with GLB. I still dont see the need for both G and Q. They both refer to the same thing..