So the GOP election strategy will be pandering to the bigotry and hatred of the ignorant, ill-educated, christofascists?
No change there then.
Wow. Just when you though the Presidental elections compaigns couldn’t get any nastier just wait for this one.
It sounds good but somehow I reckon it make be pushed back.
Be prepared for religion to get even more vile coz this could be a painful, hateful journey.
I do ask why such human rights should be an ‘Election Issue’ or rather if some human beings should be voted on to have the right to be moved from being second class but hey ho.
how can anyone breathe the words human rights and the USA in the same sentence?
I have always had a feeling that Obama would be re-elected by a comfortable margin in 2012, and this could be the clincher. It has been apparent for a while that any moderate Republican candidate with centrist appeal would be harassed and probably sunk by the Tea Party; and any attempt to make rejecting Gay marriage a central campaigning issue would appeal only to the hard right. As Chris Patten once said, some people can’t tell the difference between a bandwagon and a hearse. I predict victory for Obama in 2012.
I hope so coz while Obama’s in the US leave the rest of the world alone.
The marriage police need to retire.
Onward to full marriage equality rights now. Cheers, Joe Mustich, CT Justice of the Peace, Washington, CT USA
As an election strategy, this is pretty poor. Democrats overwhelmingly support gay marriage anyway (70%+), and likewise Republicans overly reject it (Less than 20% support), so they’re not going to cause any real change in voting patterns by doing this (Not to mention they’ve been making it an issue for years anyway).
It’s also ridiculous in the sense that the Republicans need to start appealing to younger voters more, who are largely Democrats and gay marriage supporters. Even your average young Republican will support gay marriage in some form, so this really isn’t the direction to go in if they’re looking for long term gains.
Honestly, the Republicans really need to do what the Tories did here 5 or so years ago and just liberalize on homosexuality, because public opinion is going one way and it’s not in their favour. It certainly did the Tories good, and in the long term it would benefit the Republicans as well, and if we don’t see it happen within the next two decades I’d be shocked.
I cannot see this adding greatly to the votes piled up by the Republicans and conservatives – what they have they may hold – but it could deter swing votes who may be getting fed up with the Christian right and the non-Christian self-righteous. I just wish more Democrat senators would chime in with President Obama – their caution as times exceeds even his. But his fundamental decency shines through, and not for nothing is he still seen as the best since Abe.
If that will be the republican strategy then they’re signing their own death warrant. Bush pulled this off but looked what happened. A lot of independent voters were alienated. These are the voters who will determine who wins the next general election. The more extreme the republicans become, the more it alienates moderates and independents alike.
I’d like to have faith that sense would prevail and the GOP would sink without trace at the polls, but this is the country that voted in Bush for a second term and holds Fox News up as a source of “Fair and balanced journalism”.
i’m not about to count my chickens…
It has been said that all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. It is evident that too many good men are not willing to speak out for what is right . I believe that the Holy Bible is the inspired word of God. The Bible explicitly condems homosexaulity as an obomination to God. There is a judgement day in the future.
I really don’t think that a genocidal despotic bronze age god of war created by primitive people to explain things they did not understand and to excuse the slaying of their enemies really works as justification in this modern world the rest of us live in. In other words, I am not afraid of your judgment day as it is fictional.
I believe the holy bible is an act of fiction, manipulated by the power hungry to oppress, degrade and manipulate the foolish and the frightened.
Boleau – Take the time to do some serious research and you will find that your “inspired word of God” has been grossly corrupted in the translation. Any reasonable reading of a more accurate translation will not support anti-gay views – at least, not without extensive “interpretation” which is something of which the fundamentalists do not approve. Too often people have their prejudices, and they attempt to make their religion conform. I rather think the Bible condemns that (something about not changing any words …)
Boleau – I can give you a judgement day right now if you like… half of what you just said is fundamentalist bullcrap.
How’s that for a swift judgement?
BTW if you’ve been eating prawns or wearing polycotton socks Leviticus states that’s an abomination against god too, so you can wipe that sanctimonius grin off your face.
Boleau, here are some verses which come directly from the Bible that even fundamentalists do not take literally for today, proving that they just like you selectively pick and choose verses out of context which justify their pre-existing prejudice against gay and lesbian people. Take a look for yourself…
“Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.” (1 Corinthians 14:34)
This verse says that women can’t speak in church. Period. It is completely ignored today. Applying this verse to the modern day church would be ancient, absurd and nonsensical.
When it comes to the verses about homosexuality, however, fundamentalists suddenly insist that they must be interpreted literally, word for word!
When it comes to this verse, however, they admit the facts. They acknowledge that it was only meant for that day. The truth is that the Apostle Paul wrote this verse because, during his time, women and men sat on opposite sides of the church aisle. Women would yell questions across the aisle to their husbands, causing a disruption of the service.
Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering.” (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)
Upon visiting any fundamentalist church, you will discover that more than a few women have short haircuts. This verse, however, indicates that women should have long hair, as their “head must be covered.”
It has a familiar ring to it, doesn’t it? Arab fundamentalists require women to put a veil over their heads and punish them if they do not. The fact of the matter is that the length of your hair has nothing to do with your spiritual condition
“If any man takes a wife, and goes in on her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin…” (Deuteronomy 22:13,14)
“But if … evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones…” (Deuteronomy 22:20,21)
If a man discovers that a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night, all the men in town can murder her by flinging stones at her young female body as she screams in pain.
Is this the word of God? Hardly.
The command to stone to death a young girl who is not proven to be a virgin on her wedding night is simply an ugly man-made rule of murder that found its way into the Biblical text.
Here are the facts . . .
The belief in Biblical times was that if a woman was indeed a virgin, she would bleed on her wedding night because her first sexual intercourse would result in the breaking of the hymen, the thin tissue that covers the vagina. This blood was considered the “evidence” of her virginity that the scripture speaks of.
Medical science has since discovered that the hymen is often already broken in many young girls because of their participation in athletic sports and things like horseback riding. Quite tragically, this indicates that many girls who actually were virgins on their wedding night were nonetheless stoned to death because they were ignorant of this scientific fact. Little did many young girls in Biblical times know that their wedding nights would end in their own murder.
“If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched.” (Mark 9:43)
While fundamentalists insist (due to their pre-existing bigotry) that all seemingly anti-gay scriptures be taken literally, without exception, they admit that the above verse was not meant to be taken literally even though the words above were spoken by Jesus Himself.
This proves that fundamentalists are willing to say that certain scriptures weren’t meant to be believed literally, even those which contain the actual words of Jesus Christ!
“One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the congregation of the Lord.” (Deuteronomy 23:2)
If you were born to an unwed mother, the Bible says that you shouldn’t be allowed in church. Do “Bible-believing” fundamentalists follow this rule? Nope. They acknowledge that this verse was meant for a different time.
Yes, even fundamentalists acknowledge that certain scriptures were only meant to be applied to the particular time and place in which they were written.
When it comes to those scripture verses which seem to speak against homosexuality, however, they suddenly and indignantly demand that every word be followed to the letter and applied to our modern day!
The idea of refusing membership in the church to a child born to an unwed mother is seen as being unreasonable today, even though the scripture instructs it. The idea of quoting scripture to abuse people who are gay and lesbian is just as unreasonable and antiquated.
“Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ.” (Ephesians 6:5)
“Slaves, obey your human masters in everything; don’t work only while being watched, in order to please men, but work wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord.” (Colossians 3:22)
“Slaves are to be submissive to their masters in everything, and to be well-pleasing, not talking back .” (Titus 2:9)
“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel. ” (1 Peter 2:18)
Slaves should obey their masters? Hardly. Slavery was one of the most offensive institutions to ever befall humanity. Sadly, the scriptures condoned it, and, as you can see from the above verses, demanded that slaves obey their masters…even cruel ones. Are those verses the “Word of God?” Of course not. They are merely reflective of cultural biases which found their way into the Biblical text.
“So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged
itself its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped
in the middle of the sky and delayed going down for about a full day.”
(Joshua 10:13 NIV)
The great astronomer Galileo was jailed by religious authorities when he asserted that the Earth revolved around the sun, and not the other way around, as the above verse suggests. If the Bible were the “inerrant, literal Word of God,” as people like Jerry Falwell claim, surely God would have known that it was the Earth, and not the sun which had stopped.
In February of 1616, religious authorities asked a commission of theologians, known as the Qualifiers, about Galileo’s claim that the Sun is at the center of the planets’ motions and does not move, and that the Earth is not at the center and does move.
On February 24, 1616, the Qualifiers delivered their unanimous report: the idea that the Sun is stationary is “foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts many places the sense of Holy Scripture…”.
When it comes to the scriptural verses which seem to be against homosexuality, fundamentalists boldly declare their belief in the “infallible, inerrant Word of God”, demanding that every single word be taken literally, without exception. But when it comes to the awkward verses listed above, they become much less sure of themselves. So much less sure, in fact, that they don’t follow what their own Bible says.
“Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
You can’t cherry-pick which verses to believe in Boleau, you either believe in all of scripture or you don’t. Why is it nutters like you ignore the ones that are not compatible with your lifestyle, because that’s just what it is. YOU CHOOSE to be religious, a bigot and a hypcorite. We don’t get to choose our sexual orientation, its chosen for us, just as yours is.
If Judgement Day is in the future why is it you and your lot keep bothering us now?
We get it your a bigot – Yawn – but seriously how does how other people going about their lives really affect you? Are you so insecure about your own life you have to pry into others? (Perv!!)
Let and let live.
So indeed if ‘judgement day’ is there then be worried about your own judgement and leave everyone elses to theirs.
Boleau, here’s more proof that fundamentalists selectively quote the bible:
Homophobic fundamentalists often quote two particular verses that seem to be against gay people. These two verses, both of which appear in the book of Leviticus, are . . .
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22)
and . . .
“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
Below, we’ll take a look at other scripture verses that are in the exact same book (Leviticus) as the above verse. This exercise proves that those preachers who are so enthusiastic about quoting the book of Leviticus to affirm their personal prejudice against people who are gay or lesbian become awfully quiet when it comes to other verses that appear in the very same book.
Remember, this isn’t about faith whatsoever. It’s about people who have pre-existing anti-gay prejudice in their hearts. They choose the Christian Bible as the tool with which they attempt to affirm and legitimize that pre-existing prejudice.
Sadly, the truth is that they just don’t like gay people.
“For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him.” (Leviticus 20:9)
Imagine what would happen today if we killed every child who was disrespectful to his parents. Fundamentalists explain this verse away, saying that it is part of the Old Levitical Holiness Code and is not meant to be taken literally.
But the above verse is just a mere 3 verses before Leviticus 20:13, one of their favorite anti-gay scriptures which, of course, they do choose to apply literally.
It’s just incredible, isn’t it?
Fundamentalists change their entire methodology of scriptural interpretation when it suits their purpose, even when dealing with verses that are a just couple of sentences away from each other!
“If a man lies with a woman during her sickness and uncovers her nakedness, he has discovered her flow, and she has uncovered the flow of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from her people.” (Leviticus 20:18)
Imagine what would happen today if we deported every man and woman who had ever had sex together while the woman was having her period. Fundamentalists decline the opportunity to take this verse literally, which is merely 5 verses after Leviticus 20:13.
“Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.” (Leviticus 25:44-45)
Did you ever wonder where racist, uneducated people in the 19th century got the idea that slaves were just property and not people? Directly from the above verse, which fundamentalists do not, of course, take literally.
“Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.” (Leviticus 19:27)
“Bible-believing” fundamentalists never preach against the evils of shaving, as they do not take this verse literally for our day. Of course, they most certainly would do so if they had a personal bias against shaving, but apparently, they do not
“…and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you.” (Leviticus 11:7)
As you can see, the book of Leviticus also prohibits the eating of pork (a swine is a pig). Of course, fundamentalists do not choose to use this verse to preach against eating pork. Sadly, however, they have no problem abusing the Bible to condemn gay and lesbian people. Remember, it’s about their personal prejudice against gay people, not about a true desire to understand what the Bible actually says.
“…do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material.” (Leviticus 19:19)
Farmers in this country almost always grow more than one kind of crop in their fields. In fact, they often must do so for ecological reasons. Fundamentalists do not apply this verse literally. If they were to preach against farmers, there would be an uproar, and rightfully so.
Fundamentalists also ignore the Biblical command to not wear clothes that have two different kinds of material. The shirts that many fundamentalists are often seen wearing must be a cotton/polyester blend, the most common in the United States of America. They may be “Bible believing” Christians, but this is yet another verse that they don’t believe should be applied to today.
Fundamentalists also like to use Leviticus 18:22 to justify their anti-gay prejudice. That verse says, “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.” Perhaps you have heard some people refer to gay people as an “abomination.” They get the idea directly from Leviticus 18:22. But did you know…
The Bible says that eating shrimp and lobster is an abomination:
“But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you.” (Leviticus 11:10)
“They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination.” (Leviticus 11:11)
“Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you.” (Leviticus 11:12)
In conclusion . . .
The above exercise proves that anti-gay fundamentalists selectively quote the Bible. They enthusiastically and openly embrace those parts of the Bible which affirm and justify their own personal, pre-existing prejudice against gay people, while declining to become as enthusiastic about verses like the ones listed above.
After all, how many times have you heard a fundamentalist say that eating shellfish was an abomination? But they sure don’t hesitate to say it about gay people, do they? What does that tell you?
How can you live with so much hipocrisy and bigotry, Boleau?
Britain now has civil partnership for GLB which the U.S. gov does not reconize. Soon though full equality marriage will be legal. I’m a U.S. citizen who will marry my CP. Will the U.S. gov have to then reconize my marriage as they do heterosexual marriages. How will it be possible to accept some legal marriage contracts and not others?
However, the NY Times says the opposite (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/us/politics/25marriage.html?_r=1). The christofascists (Aka Republiscum) in the US will continue to scream; however, at some point one can hope they’ll move on with this one…
I think the “Repubs” strategy will backfire on them. It seems that LGBT rights are gaining traction in the States especially among young people and they are the ones the “Dems” need to really mobilize along with the liberal progressives in the next presidential election to assure an Obama reelection.
Will, when you enter into a civil partnership, you will not be marrying him. We don’t yet have same-sex civil marriage in our country just yet. Either way, your legal union won’t be recognised by the American government but if you eventually marry in the UK, your marriage will be recognised in five states only and in the ten countries that allow it.
“It has been said that all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. It is evident that too many good men are not willing to speak out for what is right.”
Exactly: Genuine Christians who fail to speak out are culpable people take his name in vain to promote ignorance and hatred.
“I believe that the Holy Bible is the inspired word of God.”
Of course, other people, such biblical scholars, believe that it was written by a series of committees 400-500 years before Christ lived.
Large parts of it seem to me to be an early form of consumer protection code.
And your favorite? “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22)
In those times women were absolute property. If you have a relationship with a man and treated him like a woman, then it was wrong because you have devalued a man. After 2000 years of variable translations, that is as valid an interpretation as yours.
While you are taking the bible literally, remember chapter 19 to “love one’s neighbor as oneself” .
My solution to the contentious gay marriage issue would be this:
Relegate marriage to churches and religious groups. Let them perform their marriage and divorce ceremonies in any manner they wish. Don’t acknowledge their unions in any way under the law.
Create a brand new partnership system for legal purposes. Allow any two people to become legal partners with all the benefits you would expect under the law.
It’s pure separation of church and state but it ought to satisfy everybody.
When the conservative right talks, all I hear is bla bla bla…!
In my opinion, anyone who brings religion into politics creates a bias law or voting issue. Mainly in part that the bible says this, the bible says that. The most commonly used “excuse” is that gays will destroy the sanctity of marriage. Anyone who says that gays destroy doesn’t know us very well. We DO NOT destroy, we renovate. And someday we will get the chance to make marriage stronger and more beautiful than ever before.
I sincerely ask all you doubters to read Romans 1:13 thru 2:16. The crucifiction of Jesus satisfied the Law of Moses. The final judgement lies with God.