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Scottish police ‘are more gay-friendly than in San Francisco’

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  1. Helen Wilson 22 Feb 2011, 4:53pm

    She is having a giraffe! I take it she has never been to the Castro in San Francisco.

  2. That’s because Scottish gay people are more integrated in wider society. There is no expansive gay ghetto purporting to be ‘special’ in Scotland, which is better for everyone as it promotes inclusion, understanding of other ways of life and reduces the extreme behaviour of paranoid minorities. Ultimately, that has led to better relations with the police.

    Good work Scotland, you have done well.

  3. theotherone 22 Feb 2011, 7:18pm

    Have you ever been in Scotland Mmmm?

    There has been a five fold increase in Hate Crime in this country.

  4. Paul Brownsey 22 Feb 2011, 7:38pm

    theotherone says:

    “Have you ever been in Scotland Mmmm?

    There has been a five fold increase in Hate Crime in this country.”

    I, too, saw a newspaper report to that effect, but one needs to ask whether hate crime itself has increased fivefold or whether people are simply readier to report it. The newspaper story I saw did not address that question.

    I remember Scottish police being good on at least some gay matters as far back as the 1970s. Once, around 1974, they turned up to a gay disco in Woodside Halls, Glasgow, looking for a criminal with a scar on his wrist. They asked everyone to line up with their right wrist visible. A lot of people were anxious: was this an attempt to crack down on gay discos (which were rare things in those days)? The police defused the situation rather well, with one of them saying, “It’s just your fore*arms*, we want to see, gentlemen, your fore*arms*.”

    On another occasion in the 1970s I got involved with someone who turned out to be wanted for theft and who had made a present of stolen goods to me. I took the item to my local police station and was treated with total courtesy and respect. (It turned out that I had taught the duty sergeant’s daughter…)

  5. Paul Brownsey

    Thanks for your two penneth, very insightful.

    theotherone

    Erm, what’s that got to do with how nice the police force is? Your point is irrelevant and a deliberate to stray from the focus of the article.

    The article compares two sets of police forces NOT two sets of hate crime statistics (which, importantly, are not even being attributed to the police in any way).

    I am still amazed every single day that people can deliberately misinterpret articles so hideously. READ IT PROPERLY.

  6. Paul Brownsey 22 Feb 2011, 9:01pm

    Sorry, mmmmmmmmmmmm, but I don’t think the otherone’s comment was irrelevant. IF there has been a huge increase in hate crime in Scotland, then it is not irrelevant to suggest that the attitude in question *may* have infected the police, too, and that, therefore, the situation may not be as rosy as the original article suggested.

  7. I live in SFO for a couple of years – sorry what a load of spheral round things.

    SOME parts of SF are fine but NOT all.

    I sure this is the same for Scotland.

    gav

  8. PB

    “Sorry, mmmmmmmmmmmm, but I don’t think the otherone’s comment was irrelevant. IF there has been a huge increase in hate crime in Scotland, then it is not irrelevant to suggest that the attitude in question *may* have infected the police, too, and that, therefore, the situation may not be as rosy as the original article suggested.”

    This is false reasoning on two counts. 1) The article has given evidence of Scotland’s police force being friendlier than California’s and 2) *may* have infected the police? That’s pure conjecture. More importantly, it’s conjecture that is in opposition to the evidence presented (although, arguably, it is based on a single testimony, but it’s more from the inside and nothing to counter it has been proposed). Until you find and present evidence to the contrary, then implying Scottish police are not really gay-friendly at all remains just that – conjecture.

    That aside, theotherone was making a completely different point which was unrelated to the focus of the article – whether the police in Scotland are more gay-friendly. Not the the number of hate crimes. Not the attitudes of Scottish people. Just how gay-friiendly the police are in Scotia.

  9. Yes, but it could also mean that Scottish people (including gays) are loud, vocal, complaining types.

  10. The woman’s conclusion is not justified by the evidence she cites. The smaller number of reported homophobic incidents in California may reflect a genuinely lower number of incidents over all rather than poorer relations between the Police and the lgbt community than in Scotland. If the approaches of the two Police forces really are similar then that possibility needs consideration.
    More evidence needed.

  11. Paul Brownsey 23 Feb 2011, 10:10am

    mmmmmm criticises my second posting thus: ” 2) *may* have infected the police? That’s pure conjecture.”

    I think mmmmmmm doesn’t know the meaning of “may”. I was not asserting that it had infected the police. I was not conjecturing or surmising or assuming or presuming or guessing that it had infected the police. I merely said that it *may* have infected the police, which implies that, then again, it may not have – we don’t know. Still, ut that it has infected the police is a *possibility*, and that’s all that I was saying. To say that something is possible is not to assert or conjecture that it is the case. And, in the present context, it is a *relevant* possibility. But I never said or implied any more than that it was one possibility among others.

  12. PB

    “I was not asserting that it had infected the police. I was not conjecturing or surmising or assuming or presuming or guessing that it had infected the police.”

    So why say it *may* be a possibility, then? You were deliberately trying to infer a link between anti-gay hate crimes and the police who *may* have been involved. That is pure and irrelevant conjecture because you are proposing a specific reason for the hate crimes, as tenuous as that link may be. Substitute ‘police’ for ‘Margaret Thatcher’ or ‘baked beans’ and it is still the same thing – proposing an unfounded explanation.

    “But I never said or implied any more than that it was one possibility among others.”

    You implied a possibility, which was CONJECTURE. You know, a hypothesis, a theory, speculation….And it was irrelevant to the article and an irrelevant remark on the point I originally made.

    Perhaps you’d like to take it up with the Scottish police instead, after all it is *only* a possibility, right?

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