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Justin Bieber: Being gay is a decision and abortion is wrong

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  1. His mother is a fundie christian and he is a child.

    Therefore, I dismiss his points of view as the anti-intellectual dribblings of an irrelevant moron.

    1. Genetic fallacy.

      1. How is it genetic? She’s *raising* him.

    2. Brian Sallis 5 May 2013, 1:50pm

      I agree he is just a stupid child and a moron that needs to grow up and keep his mouth SHUT

  2. Valksy, thank you for making me laugh. So true. Thank god he can’t vote yet.

  3. Exactly. He needs to sack his media training company.

    Other people his age are better educated.

  4. It doesn’t sound like he’s saying sexuality is a choice. More like, having sex is the choice, and it doesn’t affect him because its everyones’ own decision. I’m not a fan, but what he’s saying really doesn’t sound homophobic and I really don’t think it should be jumped upon.

    1. Exactly.

    2. exactly indeed!

    3. i agree with you.. i do not think that he is saying being gay is a choice, i think that he is saying, loving someone is their choice no matter if they are straight, gay or bi.. you can not help whom you love.

      as for abortion… i will not share my personal thoughts on this subject however, i will say this is a young child so of course his beliefs are going to be the same as the person that raised him.

      ask him when he hits say… 21…

    4. even if he was saying that it was a choice to be gay, he’s not saying being gay is even a bad thing. it’s a very mature point-of-view to take. he’s saying that heterosexuality and homosexuality are morally equal.

  5. Well said Valksy.

    He’s totally overrated but why do they ask a child about sex, rape, pregnancy and homosexuality anyway?

    For the unreasonable influence this kid has on other kids, Bieber’s immature, parroted responses shouldn’t be published anywhere!

  6. Well it’s just as well I choose not to hang on every word spouted by flash in the pan pre-pubescent popstars who make preteen girls wet their knickers then.
    His politics is as mature as his average audience.

  7. Keith Lynwood 17 Feb 2011, 1:56pm

    snotty nosed religious freak……..

  8. Mr. Bean-er “abortion” is right, your mother should have done it long time ago…

  9. For the unreasonable influence this kid has on other kids, Bieber’s immature, parroted responses shouldn’t be published anywhere!

    Absolutely right, Axe.

  10. He has always had that creepy Osmonds look about him!

    It must be soul destroying to know in a few years he will be just another washed up has been plastic pop star.

    I wonder if his views on abortion will change when the inevitable groupie turns up pregnant. I bet he will get his chequebook out without a second thought.

  11. I don’t think he thinks for himself, he just repeats what he was told from his parents or other authority figures. A common problem in religious people’s thought processes (or lack thereof).

  12. Dan Filson 17 Feb 2011, 2:13pm

    Another celebrity bubblehead!

  13. How to lose fans and alienate people!

  14. He’s very young (isn’t he??) and I think he sounds somewhat uncomfortable with the line of questioning, and not at all like he walked into the offices of Rolling Stone with the plan of dissing gay people and raped women.

    Yes, his beliefs are stupid. But I think both Rolling Stone (and, by amplification, the Pink News headline) are trying to turn us into a frenzied rabble — and I’d rather save my indignation for grown ups with an agenda, not waste it on young things who need to think it all through a bit more.

    1. absolutely.

      1. He’s 17, which is most certainly old enough to have an informed opinion on these matters and not be excused for not knowing better. Im 21 now and when i was 17 we had debates about this kind of stuff in class and i assure you those people who took such ignorant views in class then wasnt due to them being too young and they still hold ignorant views now.

        1. burningworm 6 Sep 2011, 8:54am

          Did he choose those views or was he born with them? :)

  15. If you read the Bible, you will see that God did not create us to be with the same sex. Romans 1:27 “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” and God says, “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable” (Leviticus 18:22) and “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads” (Leviticus 20:13). Also, the Bible states that God knew in the womb, you know, since He created us. Abortion is murder. I don’t care what anyone calls me because I believe in God and Jesus as my Savior. One day (as the Bible states) every eye will see Him. And I can’t wait!!!
    And that all of you will understand.

    1. Ibelievealso 8 May 2011, 7:16am

      Good & accurate reply…..I also can’t wait until every eye sees Him & all will understand what the TRUTH really is. …..then they will have eternity to know who the truly brainwashed people are.

      Praying that Justin holds onto his Christian faith & beliefs without allowing peer, or social pressures of this world brainwash him into their thinking.

      1. There is no god sad-acts. You are among the ranks of the brainwashed god botherers. You’re hilarious :-)))

  16. Leviticus and Romans…… well that was original!

  17. Wow, they shouldn’t let a brainwashed kid say such ignorant things in a mag that will be viewed by millions of children. He’s gonna give them the wrong idea.

    Women have the choice to do as they wish with their body, and with rape, it should definitely be reasonable. Does anyone realize the crisis of overpopulation? I often think I’m the only one.

    Plus, someone needs to ask him if he chooses to be straight.

    1. what makes you think he’s straight?

      1. the fact that hes unaware that gay people dont choose to be gay?

  18. So, according to this gormless twit, rape is in the category “everything happens for a reason”?

    WTF?

    So who exactly wants to listen to life advice from a 16 year old?

    1. Well, “everything” means exactly “everything”, with both good and bad stuff… So yes, every-thing happens for any reason that we don’t see, because most of the reasons are beyond our short-sighted views.

      I think he was reasonable. I guess very few people read stories about raped women who end up raising children and they turn to be well mannered people, who make a lot of stuff, like helping other people. Who says that children should be aborted because of rape?

  19. I believe, oh piss off, and go peddle your crap else where. I off to choke on a big fat one. cheers my dears.

  20. Dan Filson 17 Feb 2011, 2:37pm

    “..he did not argue against pre-martial sex.” Absolutely. A touch of the Spartan philosophy, nothing like a good bit of pre-martial sex before going into battle. Why does anyone assume that fame brings intelligence with it?

  21. “I don’t care what anyone calls me because I believe in God and Jesus as my Savior”

    Then let me be the first to take you up on that offer:- you’re a fool. Is that what you expected? You must get that a lot, I’m sure. Run along, this is a conversation for adults.

  22. I don’t see any problem with someone thinking it is a choice. It’s whether they think people have the right to make that choice that is important.

    From my own experience of being homosexual, I would say that yes there is an element of choice within it.

    1. I think people choose to accept that they are gay rather than choose the innate desires. I have watched a friend be extremely depressed because she hated her sexuality, i honestly cant believe that she chose to have those desires when she hates herself for them.

    2. The only “choice” made is whether or not to be who you fully are. And for a lot of people, it is an EXTREMELY difficult choice to make when it could mean the end of friendships, familial support (emotional and/or monetary), and possibly losing their job!! Depending on where you live, if you have children, it can also mean losing your children!
      So, yes, that part is a choice. “Acting” on it, so to speak, is a choice. But BEING GAY? No, that is a state of being, not a conscious choice.

  23. “I don’t care what anyone calls me because I believe in God and Jesus as my Savior”

    Then let me be the first to take you up on that offer:- you’re a fool. Is that what you expected? You must get that a lot, I’m sure. Run along, this is a conversation for adults, not fools.

  24. It’s funny, Taylor Momsen is also 17 and if she said this you’d all slam her to the ground! I’ve not long turned 18 and I was clear on my position of these subjects when I was 17. He’s an idiot and just shows how damaging religion is to people. Rape happens for a reason so therefore she has to keep the baby? Absurd!

  25. “His mother is a fundie christian and he is a child.

    Therefore, I dismiss his points of view as the anti-intellectual dribblings of an irrelevant moron”.

    Ditto Valksy!
    Poor kid needs deprogramming.

  26. Dear ‘I believe’, I believe you are a deluded idiot spouting words from a book compiled for the most part by people with serious mental issues. Your posting on this site could be considered offensive and provocative. However, I think you are most probably just a crazy person who thinks one day all your clothes will just fall of and you will be whizzed up into the sky. Should that day ever happen please make sure you don’t go feet up first. Please, and I ask this in a caring, and with a sincere intention to be helpful, please see if you can get your bible whole into your mouth and then, run very fast into the nearest wall. It might just stun you into some sense. As for the fundie-christian brat blubber or whatever its name is, he is hardly out of puberty (not sure if the child has actually made it to puberty by the look of it) what the fcuk does he know about anything? Answer on the back of a stamp, nothing of value.

  27. Of course there are some people who never grow out of parroting Leviticus and Romans. I suggest they read more books.

  28. “From my own experience of being homosexual, I would say that yes there is an element of choice within it.”

    Is this Twilight Zone day?

    So, explain to me at what point do you come to a decision and say to yourself, “yeah, persecution, threat of violence, abuse and lack of rights… I think I’ll be gay, sounds easy”?

    So I assume you can decide to “change” back to straight at any time too? Go on, do it so. And do come back and tell us how that went.

    1. In my opinion, 24 Feb 2011, 3:38am

      It is a choice in some view point. You choose to say “Look, I’m homosexual” etc. Having feelings doesn’t mean you have to act on them. You can live your whole life without having a relationship you know.

      1. Common bloody sense 25 Feb 2011, 1:34pm

        To ‘in my opinion’, why should you live your whole life without being in a relationship? What is the purpose of an individual denying who they are? As for the point about it being a choice to be out, why should it matter. Straight people don’t have to make an announcement, so why should gay, bi or transgender people either live without a relationship or not tell anyone about their feelings? Madness!

      2. then they havnt chosen not to be gay, what theyve chosen in celebacy and denial

      3. in *MY* opinion 8 Sep 2011, 12:31pm

        Not acting on them doesn’t mean the person is not gay. Let’s look at it a different way. My favorite color is blue. I have a blue shirt and a purple shirt. I can choose to wear either shirt I want, but if I wear the purple shirt that doesn’t mean my favorite color is purple. My favorite color is blue even though not everything I do revolves around that color. In fact, I could go the rest of my life without ever owning anything blue. It’s just kind of unlikely since it’s my favorite color.

        1. the way i see it the ONLY choices we have is stay in the closet or come out, even then some dont have a choice in coming out to family and due to certain circumstances have to come out

    2. Bisexual woman in Edinburgh 14 Apr 2012, 11:04pm

      If the choices you have are crap, in this case the choice between acknowledging your sexuality and living closeted, they are still choices. I technically have a choice over whether or not I will have children, even though practically speaking I couldn’t possibly have a child, due to severe disability and poverty. I’m not sure how helpful it is to point out that someone still has a choice when their back is against the wall, though, as it’s not worth much as choices go.

  29. He’s gotta retain his squeaky clean all-American boy next door crown so of course he’s going to trot out the regular redneck Christian verbal diarrohea that passes for a sound byte in the States, anything else is commercial suicide. Oh and look he’s got a whole new ‘hairdo’ for the cover of Rolling Stone. Is there anything this kid can’t do? Like f–k off and die?

  30. If you want further proof of this being the ramblings of an idiot. Look up his thoughts on the word ‘German’ on YouTube, it won’t fail to disappoint

  31. So he successfully destroyed his entire gay and female fanbases in one move? Score! Now perhaps he’ll finally bugger off!

  32. Barry Walton 17 Feb 2011, 2:54pm

    FFS, stop giving this moron even more publicity than he already gets! and as for the God botherer. skip past the V1 and get to V2 (otherwise known as The New Testament): don’t seem to be much about homosexuality in that, any way I can put up with being detested by religious nutters :)

  33. When his testicles descend then maybe he can voice ‘adult’ opinions…until then shout up!

    1. You are basically saying that the brain is down there! LOL.

      [sarcasm]

  34. Ignorant little knobhead, lets just hope his mother never gets raped,,as his words would be so comforting,,,errhhh mom everything happens for a reason,,,right,,,,oh so your pregnant too,,,you gotta keep it as its like killing a child,,,,,,right ?,,,,WRONG,,shame fame and fortune doesn’t make you more intelligent :-(

  35. Personally, I hate his music. But at the same time I have respect for his views (minus the dodgy comment on homosexuals, but it doesn’t sound like he’s saying its wrong to be gay). I personally agree with his views on abortion, and abstainence. Does that make me a horrible person? No, I can quite easily combine my strong faith, with my nights out being a scene queen.

  36. And this is a story because…..?

  37. Generally held by
    Human sexuality researchers.
    Professional mental health therapists and their associations.
    Gays, lesbians and bisexuals.
    Most religious liberals and their faith groups and some members of mainline religious denominations, that
    Homosexuality is an orientation.
    It is part of one’s being.

    Heterosexuality, bisexuality and homosexuality are three normal, natural variations of sexual orientation, found throughout all societies, cultures, and eras.

    A person’s eventual sexual orientation is determined for them before school age.

    The tendency towards a particular sexual orientation is genetically predetermined at conception.
    An unknown environmental factor may or may not trigger the “gay” gene(s) and determines the person’s orientation.

    Sexual orientation in adults is unchangeable.

  38. “So, explain to me at what point do you come to a decision and say to yourself, “yeah, persecution, threat of violence, abuse and lack of rights… I think I’ll be gay, sounds easy”?”

    I don’t do things because they sound easy; I’ve always done things because they suit me. Note that people also dress as punks etc. expressly knowing that this might invite persecution.

    I found myself, at quite a young age, equally able to masturbate over males or females. I went more with the male fantasies and habituated myself to them. I am generally happy with that decision. Heterosexuality as it was sold at the time didn’t have much interest for me as a lifestyle.

    “So I assume you can decide to “change” back to straight at any time too? Go on, do it so. And do come back and tell us how that went.”

    I have no interest in doing so, as I am perfectly happy with expressing my sexuality with members of my own sex. Without any motivation to do so, I doubt I would.

    I suspect that my comments have made you angry. Well, that does not change my experience. Personally, I find those gays who moan “I wouldn’t choose to be like this” spineless cowards.

    1. What you are describing is what I would call bisexuality. You can and are aroused by both men and women…so yes, in your case, choice could definitely come in to at for you. HOWEVER, there are many of us out there who are only attracted to members of the same sex, so that choice isn’t there. Please be careful when you say that you are gay and you think there is a choice. There are people out there who will use that to fuel their argument and it takes away from the argument of those of us who DON’T have a choice.

      1. it is a choice to be gay

        1. citation pls?

  39. Colm Howard-Lloyd 17 Feb 2011, 3:09pm

    In the article you point out that:

    It is not clear whether he intended to label homosexuality as a lifestyle choice.

    I think we can conclude that it is the irrelevant musings of a plastic pop puppet whose only main skill is as jail-bait.

  40. cause we all know woman just love having rape babies :-)..*sarcasm*

    God isnt real,religion is all made up,created to control people & what they do with their lives which is really sad…

    hes a puppet on a string & nothing more..

  41. I don’t think this little piece of crap can discuss matters like that. Being gay is definitely not a decision nor a choice. As to abortion, I don’t think his answer is to be considered. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

  42. At first I thought the only thing I hated about him was his music because he seemed to be a really nice guy by the way he treats his fans. Oh boy was I wrong. This boy needs to be educated or keep his mouth shut.

  43. Hear, hear Joe: there’s loads of different way of being gay – saying ‘there’s no other way of existing except the one that I’ve experienced myself’ is just another kind of fundamentalism.

    We shouldn’t be cornered by the Christian crowd into arguing that being gay is only OK because we really, really can’t get it on with the opposite sex – which is not to deny that many people really are exclusively, unchangeably gay.

  44. the singing foetus – what would you know about anything love

    Gav

  45. The Biebster was

    a) stating he believes abortion to be wrong as he believes ‘life’ or ‘person-hood’ to commence at conception. Hence, terminating a ‘life’ in his eyes is murder.

    b) stating ‘sexuality’ to be a choice. So what? He says it is and some of you say it isn’t! Difference of opinions are frequent in the world we live in! There may be evidence supporting the theory that ‘sexuality’ is a choice and evidence refuting it.

    Secondly, Will, labelling people ‘fools’ on the basis that their opinion differs with yours is a rather immature method of debating.

    And also Will, quoting this ‘point’ you made:

    “So, explain to me at what point do you come to a decision and say to yourself, “yeah, persecution, threat of violence, abuse and lack of rights… I think I’ll be gay, sounds easy”

    Surely using the same logic, you could arrive at the conclusion that ‘desire to own a dog’ is not a choice and is hence a factor beyond our control.

    I mean, not being allowed to walk on beaches in summer, being restricted from restaurants and bars…who on earth would make the decision to own a dog?

    1. Spanner1960 18 Feb 2012, 10:20am

      Young people think old people are fools.
      Old people know young people are fools.

    2. Desire to own a dog is certainly not a choice, but actualy owning a dog is made by a choice. Desire forms out of your emotional interaction with outside world and it is not a choice per se, but the choice is what might follow this desire. The desire to have a dog will not necessarily make you buying a dog, but you still have a choice to do so.

  46. Peter & Michael 17 Feb 2011, 3:38pm

    Oh!! What does he know???

  47. I’m with you Will. If there’s an “element of choice” as Joe states and we’re listening to the opinions of kids, then it is Twilight Zone day.

    I conclude that Joe may well have had a choice since he was likely Bi and could go either way.

    I’m not Bi Joe. I’m gay. Born this way. Knew when I was 8. No choice about it. Why did it take another 24 years to come out? Because I was trying to fit myself into the hetero mold my family’s cult-like religion expected. If there was a choice, why did I conclude before finally escaping that life (including all family and friends) that suicide was the solution if, as you say, I could have just chosen not to be gay.

    You’re kidding right? An element of choice my ass! Ignorant people like you are so damaging and organised religion is evil for promoting the majority of such ignorance, especially on the young.

  48. If you look at Bieber under a strong enough light you’ll see scars from where the clothes-hanger didn’t quite scoop him out of his mother’s womb fully. So I can understand his views on abortion. No wire hangers- a good shove down the stairs would have been more effective.

  49. The best thing Canada came up with since seal clubbing.

    Sarcasm aside, they’re both an affront to human decency. I’m absolutely dreading his new movie, Never say never. Which I just plugged. For free.

  50. I don’t agree with want he’s saying at all. But people in the comments need to stop saying that it’s because he’s only 16 he thinks that. I’m 13, I can easly say that homosexuality isn’t a choice and not everything is for a reason.

  51. Totally agree with Matt and Greeks. This headline is misleading – it’s not clear that he meant to say being gay is a choice, his meaning might have been closer to “What other people do in bed is none of my business.”

    I’m disappointed – I really wanted a better reason to hate him than his awful music and stupid haircut.

  52. Firstly, Justin Beiber… not old enough, or clever enough to making any judgments on how people in society act or are. However, I don’t think he was necessarily being homophobic, but I do believe that “Ibelieve” is a homophobic, God fearing idiot. How can you honestly quote from a book of ramblings made by various other idiots.
    Religious people need to get a grip, being gay isn’t a choice (I’m not gay, not that it is relevant), like someone else said on here, why would you choose to live a life of ridicule and torment if you didn’t have to.

    As for abortion, I am pro choice, however I can understand not agreeing with that one, abortion IS a choice, unlike being gay.

    Not sure why I am wasting my time writing on this, maybe it’s because I have uni work to be avoiding, or maybe it’s just because “Ibelieve” is an ignorant tit and it made me angry. I’m guessing it’s both reasons.

  53. Ibelieve, you’re obviously a complete idiot!! Not for your views on religion (which i personally feel are utter nonsense) but for posting a hateful comment on a gay news website that is obviously intended to cause upset! What are you even doing on here!? I don’t spend my spare time going trailing through Christian sites and offending people, so why do you feel the need?! Keep your bigoted (and possibly insane) beliefs to yourself.

    As far as the little pop star is concerned, he’s still a kid and not old enough to form his own opinions, hence he does not have the right to vote yet. Lets just hope he opens his eyes by the time he’s an adult. Pop boy doesn’t overly concern me, its the likes of Melanie Philips sppreading hate that bothers me.

  54. justanobserver 17 Feb 2011, 4:10pm

    I don’t see why he’s being attacked for his answers to the questions asked. I hate this obsessive society where opinion and belief are branded as ridiculous and anyone who doesn’t agree with everyone else is branded a lunatic or a religious fanatic. The headlines are designed to shock – even the one on this article has been taken out of context. Get a grip people, we don’t all have to agree, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don’t much care for Justin Bieber and I don’t care what his thoughts are (he’s not exactly someone you would expect to come out with anything highly interesting anyway) but I do think people are far too quick to jump on the bandwagon and judge others for ‘outrageous’ beliefs.

    1. Thank you, I thought I was alone on this!

      Rushing to conclusion is very much a shallow judgmental way to classify the informations you are getting every day and people has lost the ability to discern whether a different opinion might be right or not, based on the facts and not on their subjective ideas. Poor little world and full with idiocracy! I mean, watch the movie “Idiocracy”… it was a shock to me, but very real to this present-day world.

      I’m wondering, does anyone know what are the human rights? (The movie also deals with this issue.)

      Justin Bieber expressed an opinion and you have your own. Deal with it! And I’m not his fan.

  55. He’s just a kid who can entertain. Who really cares what his views are on these topics?!
    It’s ridiculous really, that people even care.

  56. @ibelieve – them verses condemns heteros for not following their heterosexuality you nitwit! and you are cherry-picking anyway

    I Justin is not homophobic though

  57. he isn’t saying it’s choice but it’s awkward saying it’s a decision

  58. “Personally, I find those gays who moan “I wouldn’t choose to be like this” spineless cowards.”

    Yeah, that’s would be because its not a choice. But their is no shame for those who would chose, if they could, a life without persecution. The strength is in pride in one self, but everyone’s path to this place is not the same.

    “Secondly, Will, labelling people ‘fools’ on the basis that their opinion differs with yours is a rather immature method of debating.”

    Yes, fool for using a book of contradiction as proof of anything. When someone is unable to think for themselves, and is not only swallowing nonsense from a book of riddles, but also condemning others on that basis, the term “fool” is quite apt, I’m afraid. And so it applies to anyone, like you, who thinks the bible is anything but a confusing book of stories or a valid opinion. Discrimination is never a valid opinion.

    “Surely using the same logic, you could arrive at the conclusion that ‘desire to own a dog’ is not a choice and is hence a factor beyond our control.”

    Stupid analogy. Comparing something that is obviously a choice with something that is a state of being and thinking their the same is hardly proof of anything other then you haven’t a clue what point you’re trying to make. Please try a little harder next time to make more sense with your analogies.

  59. he is a twat!

  60. Puberty is going to hit Justin Bieber like a train.

    Then hopefully a train will hit Justin Bieber like a train.

  61. justanobserver, naita, I agree but the biggest issue for me here is his influence. I don’t really care what any individuals thoughts are, most individuals sphere of influence extend maybe to their immediate friends and no further but when it comes to (I hate the term I’m about to use for him) a celebrity, who has influence on others, to the point of fanaticism, when those thoughts start being vocalised, I do care what those thoughts are.

  62. justanobserver 17 Feb 2011, 4:45pm

    Axe, I do agree that those in a position of influence have a responsibility – particularly when they are followed significantly by young people. However, I do think if he is asked a question he is uncomfortable answering (as is fairly obvious in this case judging by his answers), he should answer honestly. I don’t buy that he’s homophobic in the slightest but everyone should bear in mind there is NO answer he could have given that would have pleased everyone. Hence, I think people should calm down and stop attacking him for giving his opinion. It’s alright to disagree!!

  63. Firstly, he’s older than me, not by much, but the fact remains, so I’m speaking as a “child” of course.
    I don’t care for his music or views. His comment on homosexuality just seems like an ignorant mistake. Unfortunately, any of his young fans who read this article could always interpret his comments differently. As for the abortion comments, I fail to see how he could’ve logically come to that conclusion not to mention his insensitive view on rape. Though I can’t say I’m surprised, Justin Bieber has always struck me as the sort of person who should’ve learnt to read before he learnt to talk.

  64. westcoastkid 17 Feb 2011, 5:02pm

    When I look at that feminin little freak my radar goes off the scale. I’m betting in about 10 years or so we will be reading in Pink News about how he “needed to come out” ala Ricky Martin.

  65. totally justanobserver, which is why my initial response on here was to question why young celebrities are being asked such, clearly inappropriate, questions – obviously to catch him out and thus generate some shock factor and sell news.

    I wouldn’t say he’s homophobic either to be honest but his untrained responses could cause confusion to fans on where they should position themselves on such matters.

    I’m sure he’ll learn to deal with press eventually but he clearly needs to learn quickly.

  66. Seriously, is what a child thinks on the subject newsworthy?

    And @ibelieve: the “natural use of the woman”? LOL, thank you for sharing that lovely passage. It’s not misogynistic at all!

  67. For all those jumping on the moral high ground saying his mother should have aborted him (twisted), hoping he gets hit by a train (sick), have you not noticed he is basically still a CHILD? Such venom! Expecting him to be well-rounded, hyper mature, omniscient and infallible is uncalled for. Iffy comments, clearly, but for goodness sake let him grow up a bit before you start sticking the knives in and being so over-judgemental. Some of the comments on here are truly shameful – wishing hm death and all that. It’s like a pack of hyenas – at your ages you should all know better!

    We were all young and naive once, give the kid a chance to get through puberty first and work things out for himself!

  68. The kid is 16 and has spent most of the last two years in a PR bubble. It’s unreasonable to expect him to have come to mature points of view on these issues. Let him grow up a bit, become disillusioned with his parents, make his own friends, and form his own opinions before expecting him to make sense.

  69. It unfair to ask him questions like that.

    He sings and performs well, that does not make him an oracle.

  70. Just what is magazine like Rolling Stone doing publishing answers to questions like that from a child???

  71. Wait, wait, wait.

    Why do we even care? This KID is a dreadful singer and now has another terrible film. He has absolutely no point of view, and even if he does – he’s a “celebrity,” who gives a flying feck what he says or thinks?

  72. Jock S. Trap 17 Feb 2011, 5:38pm

    Sadly it is his choice to be an idiot.

  73. Silly Wee Boy!

  74. Apart from him being a talentless little erc, ‘Despite his strong Christian background he did not argue against pre-martial sex.’ Which of course Jesus openly and clearly condemned. Like all fundamentalists, he (and probably his parents) is of course, an idiotic hypocrite with no intellectual capabilities past reading and writing basic English.

  75. I take it he’s decided not to be gay then – which means he is gay/bisexual. Why else would he think sexuality is something you can decide?

  76. Okay, your headline is extremely misleading and it REALLY angered me. I angered me. Matt is completely right. He wasn’t saying that sexuality is a choice, he was saying that how someone lives their life is their own business and does not hurt anyone else. How can you twist those words to make him anti-gay? It really bothers me, because I am all for gay rights, have a lot of gay friends, and then I see this cycling through my facebook, causing uproar because people are too lazy to read past the headline. So disappointing.

  77. He is a child, who will be forgotten (hopefully!) within a year. I have absolutely no interest in his comments and let’s hope neither has anyone else….

  78. Justin Beaver 17 Feb 2011, 6:05pm

    Has he even got any pubes yet?

    I think he looks like a very pretty lesbian.

  79. Abortion is wrong even if it’s caused by rape!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? So baby is born, old enough to some what understand things, “Mom, who’s my dad?” “Oh, you’re dad is the one who brutally raped me.” =S I would definitely get an abortion if I was raped, the baby doesn’t deserve to have such a nasty father…or no father at all.

  80. westcoastkid 17 Feb 2011, 6:29pm

    @mmmmmmmmm… “We were all young and naive once, give the kid a chance to get through puberty first and work things out for himself!”

    Yes we were all young once, however, I’m thinking that 99.9/10% of us never were in a position to influence our piers or give interviews to Rolling Stone (shame on Rolling Stone, they once had a reputation one could look up to) that would be picked up by every media this side the planet Mars.

    His parents should have nixed this thing from the start unless the agreed upon subject only dealt with his immediate career.

    The world can do without his views on subject matter that deals with issues such as abortion and theories on why people are gay.

    An immature 16 year old (any 16 year old) who has influence over hundreds of thousands of young minds should stick with the what he (supposedly) knows best, music.

  81. why would they ask a child about such things rolling stone magazine reporter was stupid for asking a child these types of questions. His opinions may change and more then likely his opinions now stem from his parents beliefs……. way to go RS!!!

  82. Excuse me, but what is there to like in this Bieber kid – a mediocre voice, avarage looks and now it turns out – shallow mind, so just forget about him.

  83. Everyone should just dismiss him as an ill-informed child and move on. So he is a celebrity. So is Willow Smith, and I wouldn’t ask her opinion on any of these issues. Homosexuality doesn’t involve anyone but the homosexual couples, therefore should be left alone. Abortion, while sad, can be considered necessary. Every controversial subject should be left to those who it pertains to.

  84. JeffJohnson 17 Feb 2011, 6:50pm

    Cheers for the hell-avoidance tip Ibelieve, it is indeed awful for two men who love each other to act on the emotions God bestowed upon them.

    Incidentally, the other day I saw a family gathering sticks on a Saturday. As you can imagine I was absolutely livid!
    Luckily I had enough heavy rocks with me to cave their blaspheming heads in.
    Hooray!

  85. It’s not odd that he’s a young, white, privileged male and has a privileged opinion.

    He’s also just a kid who clearly wasn’t briefed on how to handle questions that require thought-out answers.

    Why would anyone ask him about this, anyway?

  86. what a tragic conception.

  87. Am I the only one who actually finds the guy very sexy indeed? Probably not, but meh, that’s kind of irrelevant.

    He’s clearly got a lot more thinking to do about these issues (who hasn’t got a lot more thinking to do his age?), but I can’t say I find him offensive. It’s not like he’s trying to foist his tentative opinions on anyone – in fact, from what was reported here, I get the impression that he was slightly uncomfortable being asked about it by his interviewers.

    The comment about homosexuality was very ambiguous indeed on whether he really did think it a choice, and in every other respect an entirely supportive affirmation of a live-and-let-live attitude. I am fine with that. Even if he really does believe that being gay is a choice, I’m fine with that. He’s wrong if he does, but that’s no reason to think he’s an idiot – lots of us misunderstand all kinds of things.

    His views on abortion are more clearly articulated, and hence more clearly morally inadequate. But again, he’s not trying to force his opinions on anyone, and is it any wonder he thinks this way given his upbringing? A lack of education or exposure to the facts is not a crime, merely something that should be remedied.

    There is perhaps some mileage in the claim that his views might influence others, and hence should not have been published, but that’s really the fault of the magazine, not Bieber himself. At any rate, I’m not sure anyone, even young teenagers, bases their moral outlook on reports of the views of Justin Bieber as written in Rolling Stone magazine. Were he touted by anyone as a moral authority or source of wisdom then he’d be more problematic, but he isn’t.

  88. he’s just a stupid kid!

  89. @ Axe “If there was a choice, why did I conclude before finally escaping that life (including all family and friends) that suicide was the solution if, as you say, I could have just chosen not to be gay.”

    This is a non-argument. I have no reason why you considered suicide, and your home-life sounds quite appalling. Plenty of people throughout history have chosen to be celibate. They’ve chosen all sorts of odd outcomes for their lives. That we have some volition is one of the most interesting things about human beings. Personally, I don’t believe that anybody is born gay; there can be all kinds of shaping factors in our process of forming our selves. But there’s nothing wrong with being gay, and people once they’ve got it into their heads that they prefer members of their own sex quite rightly will not budge – and there’s no reason why they should.

    I am sorry that you and others are so fundamentalist about this. All I hear when you speak is special pleading and weakness. It’s like you NEED to believe you were “born this way” because otherwise you couldn’t stand the fact you do the gay.

    Gay is a series of actions and not a state of being.

  90. I find your reporting on this article Horrible!! You changed everything this kid said just to make it work for your story benefit!! as for being gay he didnt mean it as a choice he was saying its no ones business in a nice way.“It’s everyone’s own decision to do that. It doesn’t affect me and shouldn’t affect anyone else.” The Abortion comment was only because of his believes and he even said “I guess I haven’t been in that position, so I wouldn’t be able to judge that.” So how about stop trying to make others look bad and focus on some real damn issues for a change. Sorry excuse for reporter!

  91. Ask a child and adult question and you will get a child’s answer,not to mention the poor little bastard was obviously brainwashed anyway. where was his choice?!

  92. Joe “Gay is a series of actions and not a state of being.”

    You are obviously not gay, or you wouldn’t spout crap like that. Do you seriously think people choose to be hounded, bullied, beaten up and even killed? You are a fcukwit.

    Being gay is between the ears, not the legs.

  93. This is what you get with celebrity obsession. He’s only 16 and a child. His talent, presumably is his voice, clearly not his non-existent thinking capabilities. Why are supposedly serious magazines bothering with his opinion on these matters in the first place?

  94. BruceWillisFan 17 Feb 2011, 7:48pm

    First things first, I think Justin Bieber is gorgeous. but I not a big fan his music, I am proudly gay myself. but I personally dont think he is homophobic though because I think he know he has got a very big gay fanbase, he has been interviewed by Graham Norton & most notably Alan Carr (in which he flirted with Alan Carr by throwing popcorn in his face), plus he is only young & I personally think that his own publicist & manager have payed him or have told him to say those things to maintain his image for the sake of covering up his own homosexuality?.

  95. Mumbo Jumbo 17 Feb 2011, 7:57pm

    Homeschooled, apparently.

  96. Somebody get an egg timer and measure how long before he ‘comes out’ because hethinks its fashionable to be gay.

  97. “Gay is a series of actions and not a state of being.”

    Pity 99.99% of gay people disagree with that. But I’m, sure you’ll find a priest or some other religion nut in NARTH to back you up.

    “All I hear when you speak is special pleading and weakness. It’s like you NEED to believe you were “born this way” because otherwise you couldn’t stand the fact you do the gay.”

    Er, no. We were born gay. Sorry if you need to convince yourself otherwise. Seems to me like you’re another classic fit fort the ex-gay brigade. You should go ahead and get the “ex” gay therapy, it’ll be a win-win for all of us:- you can continue to delude yourself, and we don’t have to listen to you.

    In fact, your conviction sin this area are nothing short of a marvellous demonstration of the power of self denial. We call it a closet, no doubt you have your own name: choice.

  98. He basically said everyone has the right to decide and choose what they want to do with their life…dont make something more of it then it was. People just trying to make something out of nothing. Leave the kid alone he has the right to say whatever he wants, no matter what anyone wants to feel about it.

  99. tigger7980 17 Feb 2011, 8:13pm

    leave the kid alone. He is just a kid. There is a reason that they do not let children vote. They still have yet to realize the they can take the imformation they have learned and decided how they fell about it.

  100. BruceWillisFan 17 Feb 2011, 8:13pm

    @Lindsay, I think you have a very good point & I agree with you too. But can I ask you a question. are you infact the real Lindsay Lohan. because the pic on your account looks abit her. plus I am a big fan of your too. hope I havent offended you.

  101. @Joe

    I was wondering if you thought that . .

    Heterosexuality was series of actions and not a state of being.?

  102. that headline is a real stretch

  103. Ed Johnson 17 Feb 2011, 8:40pm

    I suspect he’ll regret saying this once he hits puberty and realises that he is gay.

  104. The Heretic Philosopher 17 Feb 2011, 8:54pm

    @ Ibelieve…wow your amazing. Nobody here has ever had any of those passages quoted at them before and they haven’t ever heard any of the theological arguements against your interpretation of them. I think you may have got away with it. Wink.

  105. he chose to be a lesbian

  106. Ed Johnson “I suspect he’ll regret saying this once he hits puberty and realises that he is gay.”

    He’s 16, dammit! If his balls haven’t dropped by now, there’s something very wrong.

  107. Look, he’s 16 years old. I remember being 16 very clearly; I was an idiot, and believed ridiculous things which I certainly do not today. I doubt he’s been trained to answer questions about abortion and so on, and I doubt he’s fully formed his views. He was put on the spot and now everyone’s attacking him for his responses as if he were a grown adult who’s expected to make responsible adult decisions about these things.

    And so what if he’s not as clever or intelligent as other 16-year-olds? He’s celebrated for his musical talent (which he actually does have in shedloads) and good looks, and that’s what make him popular.

    It’s irresponsible of a magazine to print stuff like this. Ask him about his own life like any respectable publication.

  108. Three words:

    A Hypercritical bigot!

  109. Added to my above comment: his views have indeed been misrepresented. He acknowledges that he can’t really judge concerning abortion and is clearly not homophobic.

    And even if for some reason you don’t like him (I’m presuming it’s for his music; there’s a lot of music I don’t like and not a lot of people I want dead) – what kind of person wishes death on a 16-year-old boy?
    You should be ashamed of yourselves.

  110. Silly immature boy!!!

    He has been on Christian websites too much!!!!

    He probably has the tiniest penis in the world and no one would want him anyway!!!!!

  111. I find this tragically hilarious.

    A kid who’s songs are all sexualised the whole baby thing, seems to have NO idea about relationships or sexuality and for. 16 year old he might want to start learning.

    My bf is canadian and always apologises for him haha.

    People please don’t worry about this brat who is a total record label puppet, he once through a hissy fit because he failed his driving test

    That’s how lame this kid is and will end up a used up shell.

  112. Mike, I think you’ll find that in fact quite a lot of people do indeed seem to want him.
    His current girlfriend got death threats because other people want him so much.

  113. People are taking this way to seriously.. He did not answer it wrong and he never said being gay is bad or wrong, Also you have to remember he is just a kid. AND WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS MAGAZINE that they are asking this kid such adult questions??

  114. @Ibelieve: “If you read the Bible, you will see that God did not create us to be with the same sex…”
    Why would I choose read politically cherry-picked passages from a collection of extensively redacted tomes whose original authorship cannot be verified?

  115. @David. +1

  116. YESSSSS. seriously, Justin. GOD BLESS YOU!

  117. What is he doing in Rolling Stone????????????????????????????????????????? It must be lonely in that deep dark closet! Would someone please show him a way out? Of course he will have to wait until he is a grown up.

  118. friday jones 18 Feb 2011, 12:00am

    Doesn’t Leviticus also condone putting people to death for trimming their hair and/or beards? So Bieber’s famous hairdo is a blasphemy!

    And they always seem to stop when quoting Romans right before they get to the part about THEMSELVES:

    Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

  119. Ibelieve Wrote

    “If you read the Bible, you will see that God did not create us to be with the same sex. Romans 1:27 “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” and God says, “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable” (Leviticus 18:22) and “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.

    They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads”
    (Leviticus 20:13).

    . . . . . . . . .

    Ibelieve when you quote the following . . .

    “They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads”
    (Leviticus 20:13)”

    Are you arguing that Christians should kill gay people.

  120. Rolling Stone was wrong to ask him these questions in the first place and have now admitted that they misquoted him as well.

    For a 14y old deeply religious kid his views really aren’t that bad. He’s anti-abortion (fair enough), His comment of abortion and rape was misquoted (in short, he said he wouldn’t know what to say on the matter) and his view on homosexuality is that it’s doesn’t bothered him, and it shouldn’t bother anyone else (that’s the way I read it).

    Great piece of journalism Pinknews! misconstruing a teenagers words, based on a flawed and misquoted article. You can be proud!

    1. Oh, so that was it! I thought something was wrong, because Bieber never had ill intentions regarding other people. I’m not his fan, but I see he is well-meaning.

      People really need to think about respect! Especially journalists.

  121. I’m disgusted to find some of the comments here from some queens perving over a 15 year old, vile.

  122. Note the religious talk from “I believe”

    He’d have been great in the middle ages, believing he could turn things into gold, the earth was flat etc.

    When you see/hear those two words I beleive, juist translate them in your own mind to

    “Ignorance is bliss”

    Or as someone once said during the french revolution…………

    Mankind will be free only when the last king is strangled with the guts of the last priest.

    No wonder our society is so messed up.

  123. I’d like to know at what age he chose to be straight.

    And, as he’s not a woman, his opinion on abortion means nothing.

  124. Brendan, which do you find more disturbing: the fact that people find him attractive, or the fact that people want him dead?
    He’s 16; that’s the age of consent over here, therefore we’re legally allowed to find him attractive.

  125. Bieber’s probably been reading too much of the bible. It even says in Deuteronomy 22:28-29 that a woman who’s been raped has to marry her rapist!

    @Ibuleve:” One day (as the Bible states) every eye will see Him. And I can’t wait!!!”

    We can’t wait for you to see him either. Lets pray its sometime soon!

  126. @Joe I can’t believe I’m dignifying you with a response but your comments were directed at me. I know I’ll regret this but here goes. And sorry, this is off the Bieber topic but I’ve commented on that already.

    I initially gave you the benefit of the doubt with the conclusion you had drawn, based on your experience, that for you there was “an element of choice”. Now that you’re going down the Celibacy line, I have my doubts about you even being gay at all.

    Unlike you (part of the 0.01% referred to by Will) the majority of us know that choice played no role in this aspect of our lives. I know this because as I was illustrating with my experience, life is so hard when you’re attempting to believe others, like you, who claim it is a choice and you thus try to choose not to be gay. This is impossible.

    Why suicide you ask? I woke up every morning hoping I’d wake up and be ‘normal’ but no amount of praying or faith in god was going to change me – and I tried until I was 32 to live up to other people’s expectations. I was lonely and conflicted, being told from all angles how much of a bad person I was, particularly since if I had enough faith I apparently could change, so they said. I concluded that I either had to live that hell forever denying who I was (which I could no longer do, thus suicide looked appealing) or I had to give up religion and with it ALL my friends and family – the only life I’d known. It was difficult but I chose the latter. That was my only choice in the matter.

    I’m really happy now, with a partner and a whole new set of friends who recognise that we’re born this way, it’s at the core of you and isn’t a ‘series of actions’ as you think. My only regret is not ‘choosing’ to leave such an environment sooner.

    And no, I don’t need to believe, I know I am, and if you don’t realise that then I’m with Spanner and reiterate that I don’t think you’re gay at all, and that you’re possibly another god-botherer posing as a gay person.

  127. A very young person with a very limited life experience.
    Not a Mozart and not a Beethoven! Soon to be forgotten on the pop flop long list!
    The first I knew about this person was a very young girl spoke to me on the bus and said “You can be my friend as long as you like Justin Bieber” I just laughed and asked if this ‘Justin’ was her boyfriend? LOL At least Pink News educates me about things I would never research, read about, view or know about!

  128. I think he may possibly be a castrato

  129. I am calling the Pink Paper out as a HYPOCRITE and a BULLY for deliberately twisting the anodyne, if ill-phrased remarks of a 16-year-old in order to manufacture a ridiculous “story.” Shame on you.

  130. darthgault 18 Feb 2011, 3:48am

    there is nothing in the interviews even hinting at anything he said about homosexuality … Pink News was just using it’s poorly written article to hint at it solely to use as link bait for more clicks. Pink News is an embarrassment to the gay community.

  131. Embarrassed Canadian- Joe 18 Feb 2011, 3:51am

    What a great rep for we Canadians ! He should shut up til he`s old enough to vote and then some…. “Rape babies happen for a reason ” —- yessir, I definitely “chose” to be gay and fight for my rights everyday ! Give me a break . Bieber !!!

  132. @Oscar I know the legal age of consent here, i’m a londoner born and bred. There is no need for the stereotype older gay man preying on the chicken. On another note, i’m a gay christian and I do not see why some people here are making personal attacks on the lad and anti christian sentiments. We are all God’s children.

  133. Westcoast

    “An immature 16 year old (any 16 year old) who has influence over hundreds of thousands of young minds should stick with the what he (supposedly) knows best, music.”

    Then music journalists who should know better ought not to ask a 16 year old in that position such questions. How would you have responded to questions on political hot potatoes at that age? Bieber isn’t to blame. He’s a kid in an adult world and those who should be managing him properly aren’t.

    How ‘mature’ of everyone on here to spout such vitriol. Maybe you should wait outside the gates of your local comprehensive and start asking the kids what they think about abortion, homosexuality and the role of women in society. You won’t find their views much different. Opinions develop with maturity. Or at least I thought until I read some of those on here.

  134. Sounds to me like he’s got a lot of growing up to do. How can a teenage BOY possibly think he’s qualified to make judgment calls like this? He obviously isn’t grown up enough to put himself in someone else’s shoes & think about things from any viewpoint other than from inside his own little selfish, immature box.

    Valksy, I was looking for a “Like” button, for your comment. Well said!

    Axe & Flapjack, I agree with both of you, too!

  135. David Myers 18 Feb 2011, 7:10am

    I believe: Who cares what you believe! Certainly no one here. Go troll somewhere else, or does this subject just interest you a bit too much?

  136. David Myers 18 Feb 2011, 7:13am

    Poor Justin. Someday, when he has grown up a little bit more and broadened his mind some more, he’s going to feel embarassed by his ignorance at this point in life. I really don’t believe that he will be this dense indefinately.

  137. I’m gay and you are twisting what he said. You are reading into it. I think you are misleading people with your title. Get a real story.

    1. Well said, James!

      In fact, he wasn’t against gay people at all. He doesn’t know that homosexuality isn’t a choice, but that doesn’t make him an idiot. Yet many commenters fail to see that… sad.

  138. David Myers 18 Feb 2011, 7:39am

    In fact, I predict that some public relations person will point out to him the potential damage to his popularity and you will see a back-tracking, possibly well intentioned within a few days. I’m sure he didn’t realize that he was being sandbagged. I predict appology.

  139. Well what can a christian kid say?

    That’s what happenz when you follow a child with religious parents. A little prick surrounded by bigots.

  140. I wish that Justin Bieber was aborted.

  141. Ah, I see my error now!
    One day I plan to read news items line by line and not scan them the same way I blagged my A-level English literature coursework (read first 10 pages of novel, two in the middle, the last page and the plot synopsis on the back cover!)
    In fairness most of you are right, he didn’t phrase what he said quite quite as categorically as it appears in the headline. He said “It’s everyone’s own decision to do that. It doesn’t affect me and shouldn’t affect anyone else.”
    Whilst it’s implied that he thinks of it as a choice, the response isn’t framed in a fundamentalist context of “you chose to be gay, therefore you can snap out of it whenever you like and I strongly suggest that you do”, it’s more like “it’s everyone’s personal choice and none of my business”.
    What I get from that is live and let live.
    Sure you can take issue with his views on abortion, but in fairness I don’t think I would have had a thoroughly thought through stock response if someone had asked me for that kind of soundbite when I was 16.
    Still don’t think much of his music though.
    And I still don’t look to Justin Beiber for moral guidance.

  142. the gay comment by justin doesnt bother me, water off a ducks’ back n all that! but don’t beat him up over his AGE, i was 14 when i first acted upon my gayness, my parents taught me to be who i am, and to love everyone, it got me into a LOT of trouble thru the years, because some people are nasty, bigoted people, but u live n learn eh? what really gets my goat is the rape comment – absolutely sickening! someone SOMEWHERE should tell him he needs to amend his TOTALLY WRONG VIEW. i was raped at age 21, luckily, being a gay man, there was no child as a result, only a decade of hurt. ABORTION IS THE CHOICE PEOPLE!, THE WOMANS CHOICE!!! religion is also a choice, but thats not for me to get into, but the thing that pisses me off most is all of you bitching about him being a child!! thats an insult to all those of his age or younger who know who they are and love who they love, hate him for his music for gods’ sake (natch)… shame on rolling stone (a crap mag that had its day a millenia ago) and to a similar extent, pink news for feeling hurt by some words, that if you actually read, are quite underdeveloped. and btw, to the t**t “ibelieve” move along you simpleton.

  143. 84 comments on an attack on a fellow gay man and 148 comments on this embryo who balls havent dropped.

    I feel ashamed

  144. James!

    I’ve long sensed that you feel ashamed (of yourself), hence why you keep trying to play the ‘victims’ champion’. It’s not really for you to dictate what people decide to comment on, is it? After all, what discussion is there to be had on someone who has been attacked? We all disagreed with it, said a bit more needs to be done by the police, people should report crimes….and that’s essentially all we can do. What YOU wanted was for us to empty the skeletons from our closets about every last semblance of a homophobic incident that we’ve ever come across. Then, squeeze them to eek out all the victim potential we could to fluff up a climate of fear and paranoia so that you feel at home on this forum. We don’t all live in your world of paranoia and, thus, we move on to new topics.

    This one is interesting as it throws up several aspects: how old one should be to be able to make such comments, how much his religion has played in his views, the ethics of Rolling Stone asking him such questions, his ability to influence and persuade and an assessment of the views of the young.

    Sorry it’s not ‘victim-centric’ enough for you, but that’s because there are too many rational minds taking it on. Take your sanctimonious, holier-than-thou ego and be hysterical on another thread.

  145. To some extent homosexuality is a choice, for some. What about those who decide/ choose to leave a 20year marriage after having kids, and shack up with a same sex partner? that is a CHOICE. The people in the wrong are the interviewers , not sort of questions that should be asked a kiddies idol, Just leave the kid alone, he is just a nice wholesome 16year old.

  146. He’s only 16, been brought up hardline christian by the sounds of it, his parents still effectively provide his views. My views on things have radically changed since I fled the nest and now no longer mirror my parents’ Catholic attitudes. He’s not used the best choice of words, but I wouldn’t brandish him homophobic, just a little misguided. He’ll grow up sometime :-)

  147. God chose not to give him a brain for a reason too then?

  148. for those who dont know we’re ignoring it

  149. OMG, another one! Susan, not a choice. Even in your example, so many scenario’s could be in play but I’m guessing this potential 37+ year old male/female, weren’t strictly straight back when (early as the 90’s), for whatever reason, they got married to an opposite sex partner. And if we’re talking female, studies indicate an amount of fluidity regarding sexuality throughout life. But I restate, not a choice. It was there all along for that person.

  150. A definit case of ‘Foot in Mouth’ disease; Justin should engage brain before opening his mouth…
    …Sorry, I forgot inanimate objects don’t have brains!

  151. Jock S. Trap 18 Feb 2011, 11:05am

    I keep hearing about ‘Lifestyle Choices’ and ‘Gay Agenda’ from the likes of other media threads.

    I’ve looked everywhere, anyone know where I can find these magazines?

  152. Gew : “And, as he’s not a woman, his opinion on abortion means nothing.”

    Ah right. So women can get pregnant through immaculate conception these days? Because men are “only” the Fathers, they cannot have an opinion on abortion because they only fathered the child and dont have to carry it?

    Po-faced feminist fcukwits like you should start looking at what men give to you before treating us like some accessory.

  153. Shut up Bieber. go back to the sandpit and make castles.
    You’re not old enough to understand this yet in your current prepubescent state.

  154. Why would they ask these questions? Is he running for office?

  155. Am sorry i dont really think what he said about being gay is bad as he did not say any thing at all really.

    The rape thing well interesting SOOOOOO if some one raped him he would accept it as happening for a reason i think not

  156. “I was wondering if you thought that . .

    Heterosexuality was series of actions and not a state of being.?”

    Yes, I absolutely agree with that. Everyone is a pot of potential.

    I feel very sorry for the shrill members of our community who claim that I am “not gay” – despite having a boyfriend, having only gay sex and only falling in love with members of my own sex. I didn’t realise that, far from being a sexual preference, gay was a club in which everyone had to share the same beliefs…

  157. @ Axe – You clearly have issues. At no point have I said that anyone should choose not to be gay, or even try. I just do not happen to believe that I or anyone was born either gay or straight, which are cultural terms not genetic. It seems to me that those who believe that a homosexual preference is something which we are born with are no better than those religious who believe in predestination; life is a series of evolving self-realizations – and the self is something created by situation, environment, culture and desire.

    I am quite happy for you to disagree. But when you shrilly shout that I am not gay because my opinions are not yours, then you can go do something rude to yourself.

  158. Jock S. Trap 18 Feb 2011, 12:23pm

    See if only you’d have read ‘Gay Agenda’ you know that it’s all about us Gays bringing down governments, corrupting societies, making everyone Gay and bringing on the end of the world and all in just one lunchtime….. apparently!

  159. Joe wrote

    “I am sorry that you and others are so fundamentalist about this. All I hear when you speak is special pleading and weakness. It’s like you NEED to believe you were “born this way” because otherwise you couldn’t stand the fact you do the gay.

    Gay is a series of actions and not a state of being.”

    . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Joe why are you being so fundamentalist about this, there is also a plethorary of research which points to the genetic, neurological as well as biological basis for homosexuality.

    In your argument, you seem to imply that you have resloved the Nature-Nurture debate . . . How come?

  160. Jock S. Trap 18 Feb 2011, 12:35pm

    @ Joe

    See now I’ve always known this is the way I was born. It’s not even a belief it just is.

    You have to remember we are under the constant attack from churches that Gay people are to be treated like children. Even at 50 a Gay man to them seems not able to make up our own minds.

    It stems from all this ‘how could you choose to be Gay’ and ‘you must have been taught it’.

    My parents are/were religious but like I suspect many parents of Gay people get angry that the finger points to them. Like Gay people are not allow to think for ourselves. It’s a total insult.

    The way we are is part of our development from the womb it’s just that even then we are divided by those who feel that religion somehow dominates superiorty over the way we are born. We not even given a chance, so instead we are told we are an abomination.

    I guess thats what they call love.

    Accepting oneselves is knowing this has been from our very beginning. The seed grows from the womb, the way I am grew with them.

  161. @ Spanner
    Po-faced feminist fcukwits like you should start looking at what men give to you before treating us like some accessory……LMAO here. I couldn’t have phrased it better myself.

  162. What I don’t understand is why all of you feel the need to put down a 16 year old KID. He was asked questions that no 16yo should be forced to answer. Yes his beliefs are probably what his parents taought him. But these questions never would have been asked to any other teen pop star. They are unfair to hin and u guys are being totaly unfair to his fan base yes they are 5 to 18 year old girls but let us not forget all of the boybands, teen pop stars and rock groups that girls have idolized over the years and alduts in those days thought we were all just as stupid for worshiping them. I would rather have my daughter idolize him than someone like Britney Spears. Everyone is entitled to their opinion eventhough I don’tr agree totally with what he said he still has the right to say it just as u have the right to feel the way u do about what he said.

  163. finally somebody else agrees with the fact that all rape victims diserve what they get and that they diserve to be forced into spending the remainder of their lives reliving the same moment repeatably, as they stare into the bastard eyes of their unwanted child. I for one dont believe this, but then again I’m not a fanatic over a religion that has both held back the development of the planet by seperating and alienating the rest of the globe, whilst also refering to both women and non white people as second rate citizans, also why do people take the bible literally (come on people its a book that has suppost to have been around for 2 thousand years, in which time you are all placing your faith upon passages which could and lets face it WOULD have been changed by the white ruling class as a tool for keeping people in line). if you dont believe what i have said then sit back and think why most of you would believe that jesus was a white man, although that would probably be a more accurate reason for his crusifiction as he would have been the only white man in the whole middle east.

  164. “Joe why are you being so fundamentalist about this, there is also a plethorary of research which points to the genetic, neurological as well as biological basis for homosexuality. ”

    There has been no definitive research which has proven this question. It is an open debate and I simply know where I stand on it. What I don’t appreciate is being told, by people who cry “nature” because they would feel too ashamed to be gay by choice (god forbid!), that I am not gay because I disagree with the little story they have been telling themselves about their life.

    All of this is debatable and science is nowhere near providing an answer (probably because there isn’t one).

    “See now I’ve always known this is the way I was born.”

    You can’t possibly “know” that. You can only feel, intuit, believe it. By the time someone has come to consciousness of homosexual feelings, gone with them as a way of expressing their sexuality (remember, many who later identify as heterosexuals have homosexual feelings/attractions in childhood &youth) and identified as “gay” (because this is a social label that seems to fit), you are not in any position to be able to definitively say that you were “born this way”. There’s simply no way you can know. And, put frankly, it seems nonsense to believe that anyone can have been born with a sexual orientation. It’s like saying someone is born attracted to redheads or liable to enjoy certain forms of music.

    “You have to remember we are under the constant attack from churches that Gay people are to be treated like children.”

    What churches say is neither here nor there; I have no interest in engaging with this debate in terms of what plays well to homophobic ears. I am interested in my Truth, not the truth that will sell best to Churches, politicians or society at large.

  165. Just a pretty face if even that and nothing more…

  166. Joe wrote

    “There has been no definitive research which has proven this question. It is an open debate and I simply know where I stand on it. What I don’t appreciate is being told, by people who cry “nature” because they would feel too ashamed to be gay by choice (god forbid!), that I am not gay because I disagree with the little story they have been telling themselves about their life.”

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Joe aaying you take the nurture debate, in light of evidence which also points to nature . . . I find a little odd, as you say your self the Nautre-Nurture debate had not been resolved. Howver over the last ten years there is more convicning evidence from the nature side of the debate, than can be found in the nuture side if the debate.

    I have on word

    Monozygotic twin studies

  167. Typos

    Joe wrote

    “There has been no definitive research which has proven this question. It is an open debate and I simply know where I stand on it. What I don’t appreciate is being told, by people who cry “nature” because they would feel too ashamed to be gay by choice (god forbid!), that I am not gay because I disagree with the little story they have been telling themselves about their life.”

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Joe saying that you take the nurture debate, in light of evidence which also points to nature . . . I find a little odd.

    As you say your self the Nautre-Nurture debate has not been resolved. However over the last ten years there is more convicning evidence from the nature side of the debate, than can be found in the nuture side if the debate.

    I have one word

    Monozygotic twin studies

  168. James Wane 18 Feb 2011, 1:02pm

    How stupid to ask a child such grown up questions.

  169. Why are we asking children with very little life experience their views on these topics and acting like they matter?

  170. i agree with matt. he’s a kid! this is sensationalist journalism at its worst.

  171. “Monozygotic twin studies” – the concordance rate in these studies is not 100%, so these studies prove little. Twins may well have very similar environmental conditions, or may make choices/prefer things in cahoots with each other. The twins studies do not offer solid scientific evidence for a genetic basis for homosexuality.

  172. Btw, I do not think that homosexuality or hetrosexuality is “nurtured” – it is created as an emotional/behavioural taste/habit/preference by subject’s traumatic interaction with moments of desire.

  173. Joe thanks for your response to my question

    “Monozygotic twin studies?”

    Your response highlights three things:

    1.You do not understand the significance of monozygotic twin studies

    2.You do not understand the progress of scientific research

    3.You do not understand the gold stand of proving a genetic basis for behaviour.
    . . . . . . . . . .

    “Monozygotic twin studies” – the concordance rate in these studies is not 100%, so these studies prove little.

    When does scientific research ever reach 100% proof level on any thing?

    . . . . . . . . . .

    Twins may well have very similar environmental conditions, or may make choices/prefer things in cahoots with each other.

    Studies based on monozygotic twins which were separated at birth, and then brought up in different environments; tends to refute this idea. For example twins show exact preferences, despite being reared under different conditions

    . . . . . . . . . .

    The twins studies do not offer solid scientific evidence for a genetic basis for homosexuality.

    Monozygotic twins come from the same egg, so share identical genetic material. This is why studies in this area are the gold stand for making claims about the genetic basis of behavior, it is odd that you think it is not?

    . . . . . . . . . .

    Joe . . . what “Sceintific” research evidence points to your “traumatic interaction” – nurture theory of homosexuality.

  174. @Joe — “Personally, I don’t believe that anybody is born gay”

    1. Why ?

  175. This article has 175 comments too many.

  176. “There has been no definitive research which has proven this question. It is an open debate and I simply know where I stand on it.”

    Wrong. There’s plenty. But that won’t chnage your mind, will it? You seem desperate to believe you had a choice in it. Good for you.

    “You can’t possibly “know” that”

    You moron, of course you can!

    “I am interested in my Truth, not the truth that will sell best to Churches, politicians or society at large”

    Interesting you capitalise the word “truth”. Like most religious do, when they refer to god’s “Truth”. Wonder why that is?

  177. Just spotted this gem by Joe:-

    “Btw, I do not think that homosexuality or hetrosexuality is “nurtured” – it is created as an emotional/behavioural taste/habit/preference by subject’s traumatic interaction with moments of desire.”

    Traumatic interaction? WTF? Care to share some science on this rubbish statement?

    Folks, Joe is clearly a troll. Being gay is now the result of “dramatic interaction”. Sound familiar? Its straight form a NARTH “research” piece “Homosexuality and American Public Life”. All of which is utter nonsense, of course.

    Pity his nonsense isn’t very scientific, is it? He’ll come back with a bible quote next.

  178. Will, I agree . . .

    This is almost certainly NARTH Science

  179. @Joe

    We are looking forward to learning more about the “empirical”, scientific evidence for your . . . “Trauma theory”

  180. Matt Lincoln 18 Feb 2011, 2:22pm

    This is a 16 year old who speaking naturally and I would say supportively about homosexuality.

    Over-interpreting his words, holding him to a standard of vernacular exactitude which often escapes even the most experienced politicians, is counter-productive. It stinks of excessive political correctness which gives those of us seeking equality a bad name. It’s a shame Pink News decided to take this angle; I would have expected less opportunism in its editorial standards.

  181. Jock S. Trap 18 Feb 2011, 2:23pm

    Agreed Will, all that Gay people can’t think for themselves someone else must have done it to them.

    Hey, maybe Joe has the Magazines I’ve been looking for….

    Gay Agenda

    Lifestyle Choices

  182. “Over-interpreting his words, holding him to a standard of vernacular exactitude which often escapes even the most experienced politicians, is counter-productive”

    . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Words do not exist in a vaccum

    If you play the public arena, no one should escape being accountable for their pronoucements.

    Public is political!

  183. Of course, I must be a troll because I don’t agree with some of the posters here. My position is pretty common in postmodern circles – try reading Foucault, Deleuze, Butler. The subject is non-consistent and is formed through its creative processing of its encounters with the world and with desire. Desire must always be traumatic. Self is a means to dealing with this trauma. Trauma is a positive event.

    Will, I realise that you are very hurt and angry but could you try not to be so shrill when you encounter someone who does not, shock-horror, agree with you.

    On the case of the Homosexual Agenda, I am inclined to a certain agreement with Lee Edelmen, whose book No Future: Queer Theory and the Death Drive posits that queers should agree to align themselves with that which appears a fright to family values (some areas of Edelman’s book are problematic but the gist makes great sense).

    But of course Will, I MUST be a religious nut, reading all this queer and postmodern theory and all that!

  184. “Its straight form a NARTH “research” piece “Homosexuality and American Public Life”. ”

    I have no idea what NARTH is, Will – but I might have guess you were American.

  185. JohnK – the evidence re twins at, for example, http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/studies.html is very undecided, so I am surprised to see you talking as if the question has been thoroughly solved by this contentious area of study. I note that you don’t point to any actual studies in your posts…

  186. He’s a kid.

  187. @Joe — “Personally, I don’t believe that anybody is born gay”

    Perhaps I should been a little more clear. When I asked why ? what I meant was:

    1. Why do you believe no one is born gay ?

    I’m assuming that you have a reason for your belief, and it isn’t just a feeling.

  188. Can someone please point out where he explicitly says that being gay is a decision? Because I cant see it. Stop twisting his words.

  189. “1. Why do you believe no one is born gay ?

    I’m assuming that you have a reason for your belief, and it isn’t just a feeling.”

    The reason is that sexuality is something which not the same in all cultures; many cultures have had much more fluid, or indeed a much more rigid, sexual mores than ours. The whole idea of sexual preference is a modern one. I don’t see how, also, something like sexuality could be hard-wired genetically. The idea that someone is born gay seems a perfectly unscientific idea – a kind of version of predestination. Sexuality is so complex but, because socially we are forced to identify one way or the other (perhaps some are allowed to be bi or asexual, but look how they are socially ostracised) – all evidence points much more to a process of self-definition.

  190. @Joe — “The reason is that sexuality is something which not the same in all cultures.”

    It is no doubt true that some cultures have different levels of acceptance of sexual behaviour.

    2. How does this support your contention that no one is born gay ?

    “I don’t see how, also, something like sexuality could be hard-wired genetically.”

    3. Do you see that heterosexuality might be hard-wired genetically ?

    “The idea that someone is born gay seems a perfectly unscientific idea.”

    4. How would you test your hypothesis ?

  191. @Joe . . . all you seem to be presenting as evidence for your Trauma theory, is philosophical discourse; where is your scientific evidence ?

  192. @Joe . . . are you arguing that psychoanalysis (Re – Queer theory – Re – Butler) is scientific fact on the matter of sexuality?

  193. “It is no doubt true that some cultures have different levels of acceptance of sexual behaviour.” -It’s not just about acceptance, it is about occurrence. In classical Greece, homosexuality was something most aristocratic men would engage with at some point in their lives.

    “Do you see that heterosexuality might be hard-wired genetically ?”

    I don’t see how it can be. I can see how a sex drive is, but the object(s) of that drive, no.

    “How would you test your hypothesis ?”

    Don’t really care, to be honest. I don’t know why anyone has an issue with homosexuality as a phenomena which means that they need to discover causes. I don’t think we’ll ever really know, but we all as individuals can believe one story or another. I find the desire to scientifically prove sexuality as one thing or another quite ideological – just accept the sexuality that people exhibit. We don’t need to apologise for homosexuality whether it is genetic or developed.

  194. @Joe . . . you say you are not a religious fundamentalist.

    Joe tell me what is the difference between the self-referential nature of Fundamentalist Christianity, and the self-referential nature of psychoanalysis.

    Joe, it appears to be that both are peddling the following:

    1. Unproven theories

    2.Theoreis that cannot be
    subjected to scientific enquiry

    3. Theories that cannot be refuted.

  195. JohnK – postmodern philosophy suggests that there are limits to science; too much rationalism is the curse of the enlightenment (and, itself, a form of madness).

  196. Since science if the gold standard by which knowledge develops . .

    We are still waiting for the empirical evidence for your Trauma theory!

  197. So Joe,

    . . . are you saying that you would prefer it if a philiosopher was in charge of a randomised control trail for a new cancer drug, rather than a medical scientist

  198. @Johnk -“peddling” where is the scientific proof that I am peddling anything? I am stating a view I hold, as do many other postmodernists. You seem to think that no one should have a view unless they can prove it on a petri-dish. You (and Will) seem to have difficulty in respecting other modes of looking at the world. I am happy for you to believe in half-baked scienfitic theories if you must; I am also happy to believe in philosophical or psychological narratives.

    I think you’d better hope that there never is a proven scientific basis to homosexuality – the practical solution will simply be to abort gays…

  199. @Joe — It seems odd to go to the trouble of making a statement of belief, and then offering no reason for why you hold that belief ! Personal incredulity doesn’t persuade many other people.

    “We don’t need to apologise for homosexuality whether it is genetic or developed.”

    Absolutely ! I agree totally.

  200. “You (and Will) seem to have difficulty in respecting other modes of looking at the world. I am happy for you to believe in half-baked scienfitic theories if you must; I am also happy to believe in philosophical or psychological narratives.”

    . . . . . . . . . .

    This is a little bit rich coming from some one who cannot present any scientific evidence for his Trauma theory.

  201. Science is not a gold standard by which morals, ethics, creativity and love develop, JohnK. Sorry to disappoint you.

    “. . . are you saying that you would prefer it if a philiosopher was in charge of a randomised control trail for a new cancer drug, rather than a medical scientist” – so, you think homosexuality analogous to cancer? I think it is you has the issue here. Illnesses of the body are of course best dealt with by medicine. I might be odd but I don’t happen to class homosexuality or any sexual expression as an illness. Sad to read that you do.

  202. Joe . . . when comes to matters of medical science and sexology, I think must people would want to trust science; not unproven self-referential arguemnts, no matter how eloquent philosophically there are.

    Joe, Philiosophers do not find cures for cancer.

  203. ‎’..everything happens for a reason..’ Well *that’s ******* comforting to know, as you’re sprinting up Shoreditch High Street in a patent slingback with a pack of ‘homophobic hyenas’ snapping at your heels. I shall remember that.

  204. JohnK – so you, again, think homosexuality is akin to cancer. The Sexology you describe – applied to humans – it a pseudoscience, as opposed to medicine and biology which has real value in the field of health. Do you think that homosexuality is a public health issue?

  205. Joe . . . do you not think that you are playing into the hands of the Fundamentalist Christians, and reparative therapists; when you making unfounded statements that homosexuality is based on earliy trauma.

    Joe, do you not think that the majority of so called Gay cures, are built on this rhetoric; I call it this becasue you have not presnted even any half-baked scientific proof to back up your claim

  206. This kid doesn’t know what Germany is, to be fair… Lets send him to North Korea!

  207. @ Tony : Quote “It’s everyone’s own decision to do that.” Surprised you missed that bit ……

  208. @Joe — “postmodern philosophy suggests that there are limits to science; too much rationalism is the curse of the enlightenment”

    5. What does “limits to science” actually mean ? There are somethings we can’t discover ? There are somethings we shouldn’t discover ?

    6. On what basis should we take postmodern philosophy seriously ? What has it actually done to improve the human condition ?

    “You seem to think that no one should have a view unless they can prove it on a petri-dish.”

    But if you can’t explain the reason for holding a view, then you might not be taken seriously.

    “You (and Will) seem to have difficulty in respecting other modes of looking at the world.”

    On the contrary. They are taking you seriously by engaging in debate with you. You’re not making it easy because all you’re doing is saying I believe …

    “I am happy for you to believe in half-baked scienfitic theories if you must”

    And presumably you’re happy to make use of the results of science — electricity, water purification.

    “I am also happy to believe in philosophical or psychological narratives.”

    7. Sure, but why do you entertain such narratives ?

    “I think you’d better hope that there never is a proven scientific basis to homosexuality – the practical solution will simply be to abort gays…”

    That makes it sound as though you think gay people are bad.

    X. Do you believe gay people are bad ?

  209. “Joe . . . do you not think that you are playing into the hands of the Fundamentalist Christians, and reparative therapists; when you making unfounded statements that homosexuality is based on earliy trauma.”

    JohnK – I think I have already said, I am not interested in how arguments “play” with the opposing side. Are you saying that you ONLY believe in a genetic basis for homosexuality BECAUSE it is an argument that can defeat the right?

  210. Joe . . . I prefer to stick to the argument concerning the nature-nurture debate, with regards homosexuality.

    So to date . . . it appears that what you are saying is that, when you take the nurture argument about homosexuality, you do this from a philosophical postion; not a scientific position.

  211. “On what basis should we take postmodern philosophy seriously ? What has it actually done to improve the human condition ?”

    It can inspire new forms of being and thought, and so innovate. See Deleuze on Lines of Flight.

    “And presumably you’re happy to make use of the results of science — electricity, water purification.”

    They are not half-baked. I didn’t say all scientific theories were half-baked, I said theories of genetic homosexuality are.

    “That makes it sound as though you think gay people are bad.

    X. Do you believe gay people are bad ?”

    Oh ffs Harry I thought you were intelligent! It is obvious from the context that I am responding to what those who dislike homosexuality might do to a child deemed to be gay in the womb. I am tired of repeating that I personally see nothing whatsoever questionable in homosexuality.

  212. Are you saying that you ONLY believe in a genetic basis for homosexuality BECAUSE it is an argument that can defeat the right?

    . . . . . .

    I do not – “believe” – in genetic theory for homosexulality

    I am only interested in good scientific evidence, not personal beliefs

  213. @Joe : “Plenty of people throughout history have chosen to be celibate.” [therefore you can choose not to be a practising homosexual – my additon for the sake of context]

    You’ve hit the nail on the head there. People have chosen it. Why? Because their natural inclinations come into conflict with their choices as to how they perceive (or are told to perceive) the world. A straight priest, for example, puts aside his natural sexual inclinations because his church says to do otherwise is impure. A gay man might force himself to marry a woman, because his religion or society says to do otherwise is impure. But the fact remains that their respective natural inclinations are, and always will be, undeniably a part of them.

    You are confusing actions and mentality. You can choose to act on your impulses but you can’t choose your impulses. When we say we’re born gay that’s what we mean, regardless of whether those impulses are detectable from birth or crystalise at puberty. They are what they are and you have no conscious influence over them.

    In our society, we no longer have to suppress our natural inclinations because of ancient dogmatic nonsense even if certain groups of people would rather we did and point out our ability to do so
    (however damaging it is to the person) as evidence of “choice”.

    Choice of action is not the same as choice of orientation, and I don’t see why we should exercise our choice of action to stiffle our inherent orientation at the behest of people who dislike it.

    The only choice anyone ever has is whether to embrace who they are and be happy, or deny it and be miserable.

  214. @Joe – there’s no respect directed for idiots and homophobes, you also seem to be uninterested in listening to LBG folk about stuff anyway so are you one of the idiot homophobes?

  215. “So to date . . . it appears that what you are saying is that, when you take the nurture argument about homosexuality, you do this from a philosophical postion; not a scientific position.”

    Nurture is not a nuance-enough word. Homosexuality is a creative response in an individual’s life (as is heterosexuality/bisexuality/asexuality). Yes, I do this from a philosophical position (have I said otherwise? you are the one raving about science) but also as a response to my own experience. There is no convincing scientific position that any study has yet offered which proves a genetic basis for sexual preference, and it’s no good you’re pretending there is. If one were to appear, I would happily admit I am wrong (but it won’t).

  216. Joe . . . you keep using this word belief

    . . . rather than scientific evidence or philosophical argument . . .

    I associate beliefs with religion rather not science, or philosophy with it’s rigourous tradition of logic

  217. “here’s no respect directed for idiots and homophobes, you also seem to be uninterested in listening to LBG folk about stuff anyway so are you one of the idiot homophobes?”

    Ffs, I am an “LGB” folk.

    Sven I don’t believe that orientation is genetic, sorry. There was a point when I noticed I liked men and that fitted with various other factors, and so I went with it. No reason I shouldn’t have. No in-born genetics involved.

  218. @Joe . . . you keep using this word belief

    . . . rather than scientific evidence or philosophical argument . . .

    I associate beliefs with religion not science, or philosophy with it’s rigourous tradition of logic

  219. “I associate beliefs with religion rather not science, or philosophy with it’s rigourous tradition of logic”

    You have attacked me for not ascribing to a genetic basis for homosexuality, which has not been proven. I assume you believe in such an unproven thesis? As for logic, there is nothing whatsoever logical about thinking homosexuality is genetic, that anyone is “born that way”. That flies in the face of all logic.

  220. Im sorry this debate about nature or nurture is so uninformed at times. Any first year psychologist or evolutionary biologist will tell you it is the interaction between nature and nurture, the individual and the environment, genes and external stimuli, that cause us to be the way we are. You cannot separate the two. They are both needed.

  221. @Joe — I presume you don’t have an answer to my fifth question then.

    Look, you live your life as you will. But if you’re making statements and not backing them up, you’re not going to be taken seriously. That’s how life works. You must realize this, and using vague forumlaic phrases doesn’t convince. Nor does picking an undergraduate thesis convince people to overturn masses of other scientific research, in peer reviewed journals !

  222. I am arguing that you present scientific evidence for your . . .

    “Trauma theory of homosexuality

    Interestingly, neither have you presented a logical philosophical argument for this theory.

  223. “Im sorry this debate about nature or nurture is so uninformed at times. Any first year psychologist or evolutionary biologist will tell you it is the interaction between nature and nurture, the individual and the environment, genes and external stimuli, that cause us to be the way we are. You cannot separate the two. They are both needed.”

    . . . . . . . . . .

    This interaction is complex which is why the rigour of science, not personal beliefs is needed

  224. @Joe — “I don’t believe that orientation is genetic …”

    Why ?

  225. @Joe — “No in-born genetics involved.”

    How do you know ?

  226. “You have attacked me for not ascribing to a genetic basis for homosexuality, which has not been proven.”

    . . . . . . . . . . . .

    I am arguing that your propostions appear to be based on “Beliefs” rather than scientific evidence or philosophical logic.

  227. Dr Robin Guthrie 18 Feb 2011, 4:43pm

    Joe is right.

    I didn’t believe that stupidity and ignorance were genetic but Joe has just proven it.

    Well done Joe.

    You have proven the link.

    Now go and educate yourself.

  228. “This interaction is complex which is why the rigour of science, not personal beliefs is needed”

    I agree; however it is a false dichotomy for people to say it must be either nature or nurture.

    Also; the whole postmodern identity thing is very limited in explaining sexuality. It is true sexuality is a spectrum, however the postmodernist approach offers no evidence beyond personal reflection, which is not a sufficient basis for an argument.

  229. this will def, bring down his success.

  230. @Joe — “You have attacked me for not ascribing to a genetic basis for homosexuality, which has not been proven. I assume you believe in such an unproven thesis? As for logic, there is nothing whatsoever logical about thinking homosexuality is genetic, that anyone is “born that way”. That flies in the face of all logic.”

    But the research quoted in the undergraduate thesis you mentioned, certainly suggests there is a genetic basic to homosexuality. Of course, as Scott points out, genes are rarely responsible for all outcomes.

    You can’t just decide all scientific truth from pure logic ! That’s only possible in mathematics. In other sciences, you need data, and logic can suggest a thousand mechanisms to explain those data. These are then tested and winnowed.

    The idea that pure logic is sufficient went out with Aristotle.

  231. @Joe — “… as a response to my own experience.”

    Whilst dismissing other people’s experience !

  232. “I am arguing that your propostions appear to be based on “Beliefs” rather than scientific evidence or philosophical logic.”

    I never said that they were not based in beliefs. In this particular argument, beliefs are all anyone has gone at present.

    “Now go and educate yourself.”

    Where might I get this education? I note that people have called me “ignorant” and a “moron”. I don’t recognise that as educated language- rather as an emotional and abusive response. Fair enough, but don’t try to claim you’re something better, “Dr” Guthrie. I note that you don’t do a single thing to put your viewpoint.

    “the whole postmodern identity thing is very limited in explaining sexuality. It is true sexuality is a spectrum, however the postmodernist approach offers no evidence beyond personal reflection, which is not a sufficient basis for an argument.”

    Two things. One, postmodernism is based not merely on personal reflection, but on philosophical, historical and psychoanalytical study and speculation. Two, those that say they were “born this way” are doing precisely as you say, offering no evidence beyond personal reflection. Until one of you can point me to a peer-reviewed paper which proves that homosexuality is genetic, I will take raise my eyebrows at the idea.

  233. “Whilst dismissing other people’s experience !”

    Same as everyone else here, then, Harry. But their experience is almost always followed by the proviso, “this must be the case or else we’ve no argument against the religious right”. It is very ideologically and contingency -tinged experience.

  234. @Joe — “If one were to appear, I would happily admit I am wrong (but it won’t).”

    Incredible. Another belief ! No-go theorems do appear occasionally in science, but not often. Why do you believe that no scientific proof will ever be found that supports to your satisfaction that there is no genetic basis to homosexuality ?

    I can think of two reasons. 1. You discount all evidence that doesn’t support your beliefs, 2. You have a magic box that predicts the future.

    Why is this so important to you ?

  235. “But the research quoted in the undergraduate thesis you mentioned, certainly suggests there is a genetic basic to homosexuality. Of course, as Scott points out, genes are rarely responsible for all outcomes.”

    It suggests it to the suggestible.

  236. Joe raises an interesting point though.

    How about this as an explanation…

    What if all species of animals survive only because they have a sexual drive? To my mind, a sexual drive is probably the most vital of all characteristics for any species (leaving aside the hunger and thirst drives which obviously have a place). That drive, then, must be hard coded in the genes, in order to ensure the survival of the species.

    It is also obvious that ordinarily people’s sexual drives attach to one gender or the other or to both. People for the most part tend to define themselves one way or another for their entire lives, leaving aside for now people’s personal reasons for denying it for any period of time.

    If it’s possible that the direction of a genetic sexual drive could be influenced by external factors, as Joe suggests, then in order to get people who identify one way or another for life the influence of those factors must become apparent at the stage when the sexual drive crystalises and not beyond it. Since the sexual drive itself is genetic, then the moment it crystalises (an unpredictable time around puberty usually) is beyond the control of the individual, so determining the balance of different influencing factors at that time would also be beyond his or her control.

    So to my mind, even if the orientation of a person is not made up until the moment their sexuality kicks in, no one can predict which way it will swing or for what reason because no one can predict the timing or the experiences of the person to that point.

    So (if my assumptions are right) even if Joe was right, to be able to claim sexual orientation was a result purely of environmental influences you would have to say having sexual impulses in the first place was somehow not rooted in genetics, which I don’t think anyone would entertain for a moment.

    So I’d say even if you were right Joe, the sexual orientation of any individual would still be beyond their control and thus not a “choice”.

    Interestingly, if that was how it worked it would explain why homosexuality wasn’t selected out of the gene pool whilst simultaneously dismissing the concept of “choice”.

    Just a thought. I still think it’s purely genetic, but that’s only because of my personal experience.

  237. “Incredible. Another belief ! No-go theorems do appear occasionally in science, but not often. Why do you believe that no scientific proof will ever be found that supports to your satisfaction that there is no genetic basis to homosexuality ?”

    Because I don’t. But I may be wrong. Why do I have to submit to your authoritarian demand that I “keep an open mind and be seen to”.

    “I can think of two reasons. 1. You discount all evidence that doesn’t support your beliefs, 2. You have a magic box that predicts the future.”

    There is no sure evidence either way. But yes, of course I do have that box.

    “Why is this so important to you ?”

    Because I dislike seeing people limiting themselves to ideological explanations for their ways of being and using such explanations as comfort blankets. Especially when they get so angry at anyone who doesn’t wish to nestle under the same blanket.

  238. @Joe — “Until one of you can point me to a peer-reviewed paper which proves that homosexuality is genetic, I will take raise my eyebrows at the idea.”

    So … in the thesis you’ve drawn our attention to:

    “The results of multivariate analyses suggested that “over half the variance in Adult Sexual Orientation was attributable to the additive effects of genes”

  239. Q. Why do you believe that no scientific proof will ever be found that supports to your satisfaction that there is no genetic basis to homosexuality ?”

    A. Because I don’t.”

    Very good ! Well done you !

  240. “If it’s possible that the direction of a genetic sexual drive could be influenced by external factors, as Joe suggests, then in order to get people who identify one way or another for life the influence of those factors must become apparent at the stage when the sexual drive crystalises and not beyond it. Since the sexual drive itself is genetic, then the moment it crystalises (an unpredictable time around puberty usually) is beyond the control of the individual, so determining the balance of different influencing factors at that time would also be beyond his or her control.”

    Sven, I would be very happy to subscribe to this and much of the rest of your posts. But let me just say, I have never said that it is mere “environmental factors” that “cause” homosexuality: I have said that sexual orientation is a creative way of dealing with moments of desire. Desire is a kind of free-floating free radical and the encounter with it is always something which compels the self to re-define.

    But I am not entirely convinced by the idea that, once set, desire cannot again break through self-definition. I know people who have defined themselves as straight or gay into their 40s and 50s and had that definition shattered by a new element of desire.

    The self, I want to add, is not merely consciousness. Of course, no one makes a conscious choice to be gay or straight in the same way they choose to eat a cake or not or join a club. It is a creative solution by the entire, mostly-submerged self. Compare fetishes as a popularly known example of this in action.

    Thank you in any case, Sven, for engaging in the debate without rancour (something I sometimes find difficult and clearly, so do many others).

  241. “The results of multivariate analyses suggested that “over half the variance in Adult Sexual Orientation was attributable to the additive effects of genes”

    There’s that word again – suggested. Harry, what are you trying to prove to me? That you think I am a fool? I am happy to be one.

  242. @Joe — your contention is that homosexuality has no basis in genetics. You provided an undergraduate thesis to support your contention, but it doesn’t. You’re then forced to quibble on the word suggested.

    That’s at least as good as your other argument, which you’ve not commented on:

    “Q. Why do you believe that no scientific proof will ever be found that supports to your satisfaction that there is no genetic basis to homosexuality ?”

    “A. Because I don’t.”

  243. Sauvingnon 18 Feb 2011, 5:25pm

    I’m no Beiber fan, but what right does anyone have to call him stupid simply because they don’t agree with him?

    I applaud the fact that he has his own mind and his own opinions when kids his age are usually conditioned and brainwashed into becoming liberal by society’s loudmouths and a biased media.

    And shame on all you hypocrites who are lobbing insults at him. Your OPINION is no more right than anyone else’s and you’re no better than those you claim to so vehemently detest.

  244. You mean the undergraduate thesis that reads that results are nothing more than “best considered tentative” – hardly a roaring endorsement.

    As to your other comment, I thought you got a kick enough out of it without me having to tickle your fancy even more. You can have your wank on your own.

    1. Joe – You’re views are offensive and shocking. Whilst I understand that it probably comforts you to think that everything is in your control and your own choice, it’s a naive and unrealistic idea. Nobody chooses their sexuality. Do you honestly believe that everyone is born a blank canvas and that their is no such thing as genes?! It might shock you to find this out but some things were not decided by you! You didn’t choose your hair color, your IQ, your athletic ability or your sexuality!

  245. So no one has a set sexuality? It can change depending on the individual circumstances in which the person finds themselves? An interesting idea, but I find that even more difficult to believe than the idea that a sexuality is chosen. I say that because people have gone through hell to be true to who they perceive themselves to be, if there was even the remotest possibility that their preferences could change they would have changed it. People can be wrong though I suppose, and people can be happily bisexual, which would possibly account for your examples.

    I would like to know where it all comes from though, if only out of academic interest. I have two theories about my own sexuality and it’d be interesting to see which was right.

    I might just point out though that we at least agree that sexual orientation isn’t a choice, per se, which I think was the basis of this entire (increasingly acrimonious) exchange!

  246. @ Sauvingnon –

    ” I’m no Beiber fan, but what right does anyone have to call him stupid simply because they don’t agree with him?”

    The reason why we have a right to call him stupid is because he was asked about women’s rights and gay rights and said stupid answers. So therefore he’s stupid.

    “kids his age are usually conditioned and brainwashed into becoming liberal by society’s loudmouths and a biased media.”

    You mean instead of becoming conservative after being brainwashed and conditioned by a right wing fundamentalist christian mother.

    “shame on all you hypocrites who are lobbing insults at him. ”

    No. Shame on you for defending a stupid 16 year pop singer whose idiotic beliefs on life will infect an entire generation of young girls (and gay boys) who now think being gay is a choice, and that abortion is wrong.

  247. @Joe — “best considered tentative”.

    That’s not what suggested means, as well you know. Now you’re clutching at straws ! Remember, you used the thesis to support your contention, and it doesn’t ! You can’t really use it as evidence to counter my contention when it supports it. Did you actually read it ?

    “You can have your wank on your own.”

    ‘Thank you in any case, Joe, for engaging in the debate without rancour.’

    “As to your other comment, I thought you got a kick enough out of it without me having to tickle your fancy even more.”

    Not really a comment though. Just illustrative of your debating skills. However I’m glad you liked also.

    Q. Why do you believe that no scientific proof will ever be found that supports to your satisfaction that there is no genetic basis to homosexuality ?”

    A. Because I don’t.”

  248. “Remember, you used the thesis to support your contention, and it doesn’t ! ”

    No Harry, I used the thesis to show that the case was not proven; “best considered tentative” is a quote from one of the studies surveyed. As for rancour, I think I said that I cannot do so, which is why I commended Sven for it. You and I both know that the studies reported in the link I used were unconvincing and, yes, “best considered tentative”. When a report comes up which does rather more than “suggest”
    a “tentative” answer on the basis of a very dodgily chosen sample (as those studies all do), then I will be happy to say that I can accept that homosexuality may or even is genetically determined.

  249. “So no one has a set sexuality? It can change depending on the individual circumstances in which the person finds themselves? An interesting idea, but I find that even more difficult to believe than the idea that a sexuality is chosen.”

    Well, as I think I said, chosen is probably the wrong word. “Created” is better.

    “I say that because people have gone through hell to be true to who they perceive themselves to be, if there was even the remotest possibility that their preferences could change they would have changed it. People can be wrong though I suppose, and people can be happily bisexual, which would possibly account for your examples.”

    I am not convinced by the argument that people’s sexuality must be a given because they would go through hell before they changed it. You only have to change sexuality for religion in that sentence to see that the same equally applies there, and no one is suggesting that religion is genetic (I hope). One of the most charming things about human beings is that, once they get held under a firm persuasion, nothing on earth can dissuade them – except, I would say, desire.

    “I might just point out though that we at least agree that sexual orientation isn’t a choice, per se, which I think was the basis of this entire (increasingly acrimonious) exchange!”

    Yes, conscious choice it mostly is not (although I think some people could be conscious of the creation of their sexuality happening). I am sorry for the acrimony – when I feel shouted at by people calling “moron” and getting annoyed by even the suggestion that they weren’t “born this way”, I react badly. My bad.

  250. Sven – “if there was even the remotest possibility that their preferences could change they would have changed it.”

    To clarify this, as it is important: the only thing that can change someone’s sexuality is desire (a free radical). Therefore someone cannot fancy women/men when they encounter no desire to do so, but when they encounter a woman they desire, suddenly everything is changed.

  251. @Joe — Your position isn’t that the case is not proven. Your position is that there is no genetic link:

    “Personally, I don’t believe that anybody is born gay”

    “I just do not happen to believe that I or anyone was born either gay or straight,”

    “And, put frankly, it seems nonsense to believe that anyone can have been born with a sexual orientation.”

    “Btw, I do not think that homosexuality or hetrosexuality is “nurtured””

    “The idea that someone is born gay seems a perfectly unscientific idea – a kind of version of predestination.”

    “I didn’t say all scientific theories were half-baked, I said theories of genetic homosexuality are.”

    “I don’t believe that orientation is genetic, sorry. ”

    And you quoted an undergraduate dissertation — hardly ringing evidence — to support your contention. And it doesn’t ! From the conclusion of your evidence:

    “From the data reviewed in this report, it seems reasonable to conclude that male homosexuality, or, at least, some ‘types’ of male homosexuality, are under some degree of genetic control.”

  252. And I’m supposed to actually care what a teenage guy who is suddenly famous for . . . . singing thinks? Welcome to the corporate-controlled media of America.

  253. @Joe — I think the overwhelming argument as to why being gay for some people is genetic — why some people have no choice but to be gay — is what happened to the gay Malawi couple recently.

    If they had a choice, do you think they’d come out and get married, knowing full well that they could go to jail for 14 years ? Does that sound likely ? Or does it sound like something that was so overwhelming, that they literally had no choice ?

  254. “If they had a choice, do you think they’d come out and get married, knowing full well that they could go to jail for 14 years ? Does that sound likely ? ”

    From the beginnings of recorded time, people have been willing to die for all sorts of reasons. How are religious people willing to die for their convictions? Are they genetic?

    “Your position isn’t that the case is not proven. Your position is that there is no genetic link”

    You don’t do nuance, do you? My position is as you say; I used the paper to refute what others were saying – that the case is proven. The paper is only useful as a survey of 3 major twin studies, which JohnK seems to think are the Holy Grail of genetic predisposition. None of those studies is convincing and a child could see that.

  255. It is amazing that many here have commented about Justin having a religious background and therefore they dismiss anything he has to say as relevant for that reason alone. Talk about closed minded hypocrites.I would say that those people appear to be brain washed.

    Is it not true that allowed to continue most pregancies would result in a baby. How then is abortion not killing and furthur more killing a defenseless innocent human?

    Is it not a good idea for anyone to be selective about when and with whom they have sex? It woud result far less need to even consider abortion.

    There is nothing illogical about what Bieber said. No one even Lady GAGA (who I take it is a expert on all thing homosexual) has all the answers I am not homosexual and I hope none of my children follow that path but whether is it something a person has a choice about or not I can’t say.

    When you stop trying to shove your beliefs down my throat I will be much more likely to respect your opinions, whether they agree with mine or not.

  256. Goldie – you came onto a gay news website and have the nerve to complain that gay people are pushing their beliefs on you. Come on now, think about that for a minute, you surely did not mean that?

  257. justin is gay himself thats why hes such a hater. i mean look at him hahaha. and seriously abortion wrong by rape ? he needs to be slapped around

  258. milena reyes 18 Feb 2011, 7:07pm

    How come the world give so much importance to what a 16 year old says? What does he know about life?
    He is just a child star, come on!!!

  259. BruceWillisFan 18 Feb 2011, 7:15pm

    Everybody on here please calm down. we are all going completely nut over the miswritten views of a hot teen pop idol who we all know is infact living a lie through what his publicist & manager have payed him or have told him to say those things to maintain his image for the sake of covering up his own homosexuality. @Joe & @Goldie both of you are complete idiots & should feel ashamed of yourselfs on what you have both said on these comment boards. anyway Justin Bieber is actually infact 17 years old, so I can fantasize about him all I want thank you very much. I am hoping to see Justin Bieber: Never Say Never in 3D next wednesday & can not wait to see Justin Bieber come out or pop out of the screen in 3D.

  260. Joe, the refer spurious critical analysis you presented earlier is outdated, and only refers to research done mainly in the 1960s and 80s

    http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/studies.html

    Joe, science has moved on with regards monozygotic twin studies, and more recent research from the Institute of psychiatry provides strong evidence for homosexuality having a genetic basis.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/homosexuality-is-in-the-genes-study-claims-497402.html

  261. @Joe . . .

    The rather “spurious” critical analysis you presented earlier is outdated, and only refers to research done mainly in the 1960s and 80s

    http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/studies.html

    Joe, science has moved on with regards monozygotic twin studies, and more recent research from the Institute of psychiatry provides strong evidence for homosexuality having a genetic basis.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/homosexuality-is-in-the-genes-study-claims-497402.html

  262. these kids need to shut up and do whatever it is they are paid to do – not use their celebrity status to traffic in their infantile, ill informed “opinions”. That goes for all celebrities; they abuse their position. they are not politicians and their opinions are no more valid than any joe bloggs on the street, the difference is that joe bloggs doesnt have a media platform to spout a load of drivel.

  263. @Goldie — “It is amazing that many here have commented about Justin having a religious background and therefore they dismiss anything he has to say as relevant for that reason alone. Talk about closed minded hypocrites.I would say that those people appear to be brain washed.”

    I think people are objecting to what he says, no so much the reason why he says it.

    “When you stop trying to shove your beliefs down my throat I will be much more likely to respect your opinions, whether they agree with mine or not.”

    How is a discussion on a LGBT forum ‘shoving our beliefs down your throat’ ? You say you’re not homosexual, yet you’re posting on a homosexual forum.

    I presume you think LGBT people discussing hostility to LGBT people on a forum for LGBT people is a forceful intrusion upon you. Sorry, not sure I agree.

  264. Goldie wrote

    “When you stop trying to shove your beliefs down my throat I will be much more likely to respect your opinions, whether they agree with mine or not.”

    . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Goldie, when are you going to stop crying, I am a victim; when ever you come across something you do not like

    Goldie, when are you going to refine your onto-epistemological view of the world

    Goldie, when are you going to stop walling, stewing and stagnating in narccisistic hetersexist world view

  265. @Joe — I’m not sure what your argument is now. Your contention is that homosexuality has no genetic basis. You presented as support of this an undergraduate thesis that says:

    “From the data reviewed in this report, it seems reasonable to conclude that male homosexuality, or, at least, some ‘types’ of male homosexuality, are under some degree of genetic control.”

    This does not support your thesis. It doesn’t incontrovertibly prove the counter thesis — manifestly — but that isn’t evidence for your thesis.

    Your comparison with religious people is interesting. Perhaps a tendency to religious belief is genetic — it certainly runs very strongly in families.

  266. @Goldie — you ask:

    “Is it not true that allowed to continue most pregancies would result in a baby. How then is abortion not killing and furthur more killing a defenseless innocent human?”

    This really isn’t the forum for a discussion pro and contra abortion. However, let me ask you a question:

    How often do you think fertilization leads to an established, viable pregnancy ? That is to say, how often do you think, natural, spontaneous abortion happens ?

    Let me give a hint — it’s more than 50% of the time.

  267. @Goldie — “Is it not a good idea for anyone to be selective about when and with whom they have sex? It woud result far less need to even consider abortion. ”

    That’s a very good point ! Of course you’re right. Women who are raped are really asking for it. If only they were more selective with whom they have sex.

    But I’m not sure I’m convinced of your bona fides Goldie. I wonder … despite the obvious misspelling and grammar slips … there’s something a lal inconsistent in your prose.

    Wait … you’re not a troll are you ? I think you maybe !

  268. At 17 years of age – he’s hardly qualified or experienced to understand anything about sexuality. The old saying of “children should be seen and not heard” comes to mind.

  269. OMG you writers totally twisted his words. I’m not a fan of his, I absolutely hate his music, as a matter of fact, but I read the interview on Yahoo! and he was NOT saying that abortion when rape is not ok. He just said that he didn’t know how to respond since he hasn’t been in that situation. I thought his answered were honest and relatively mature a for a his kid who has barely hit puberty yet. Again I’m not fan, but the article totally twisted the interview. Not cool!

  270. He is not anti-gay, you nutters.

    His words, translated for Britain, “It’s everyone’s own decision to do that” means he is okay with people being outwardly gay.

    If not, the next sentence wouldn’t make sense.

    “It doesn’t affect me and shouldn’t affect anyone else.”
    This is an arguement used by PRO-GAY people to say why gay marriage isn’t the end of the world. This is pretty pro-gay for someone who was raised in an uber Christian family too, as I hear people mentioning.

    I agree with his stance on abortion, albeit not for a religious reason, so I can’t comment there and it isn’t appropriate for an LGBT site anyways.

    But then again, I guess instead of doing something productive, gay people always inspire to be the next stereotypical minority and cry and whine about even positive statements in context.

  271. ZRK wrote

    “I agree with his stance on abortion, albeit not for a religious reason, so I can’t comment there and it isn’t appropriate for an LGBT site anyways.”

    . . . . . . . . . .

    ZRK, I was what do you agree with? . . and what cannot you mention on this site?

  272. …ZRK wrote

    “I agree with his stance on abortion, albeit not for a religious reason, so I can’t comment there and it isn’t appropriate for an LGBT site anyways.”

    . . . . . . . . . .

    ZRK, I was wondering what you agree with in relation to abortion? . . and what cannot you mention on this site?

  273. So young – and so much to learn. I hope he doesn’t influence other young and naive folk.

  274. I agree with J-Biebs actually. Abortion is wrong. I am not that religious, but i think its still killing a life.

  275. Bill . . . it is alleged that J-Biebs
    also said that abortion was wrong, even when pregnancy is caused by rape.

    i was wondering if you agreed with him?

  276. Being gay is a choice eh Justin.
    And abortion, even after rape is wrong !!
    How old is he? 16? is that too old for an abortion?

  277. Bieber go back to Canada and let them deal with your ignorance. Also, what’s up with you and Usher? Sure looks like you have a secret lover there buddy.

  278. MyLyricalDreams 19 Feb 2011, 12:06am

    Thank you Justin Bieber for your 16 years of wisdom. I now present you with a lollipop.

  279. Mr. Scott Aron John Reynolds 19 Feb 2011, 12:15am

    Justin Bieber Needs To A) ” SACK HIS PA & MEDIA TEAMS/STAFF ”

    B) Hang Around With Better Friends,Guardians, & Mentors, Who’ll LOOK AFTER HIM & GUIDE HIM WELL & SHOW HIM THE WORLD.

    C) He Needs To Become More Self Aware What He Say’s Both In Public & Private, & Think Be He Say’s Anything.

    D) Grow Up A Bit More & Learn About LIFE & THE FACTS.

  280. 280 comments about… Justin Bieber??? this is nuts.

    lots of peer reviewed stuff about genetic influences on sexual orientation. just one of them is this: http://www.pnas.org/content/105/27/9403.short

    a 2 part summary on this news site starts here:
    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/12/01/gay-by-nature-part-one/

  281. He is going to learn, the same way that Donna Summer did in the 80’s, that they gay community can break you as easily as we can make you. Her record sales dropped 85% in the first 48 hours after comment about “She regretting the part the gay community had in her success” after she became a “Born again” Christian. When she ws informed of the impact on record sales, she quickly backpedalled.
    Justin adn his fanatical mother are about to learn a hard lesson in economics.

  282. Lay off Donna Summer. That ancient rumor was never proven and she’s a absolutely superb vocalist with tons of gay fans. In no way comparable to this little snot-ass twerp.

  283. So he hasn’t been in the position of being impregnated as a result of raped… but he has been impregnated after consensual sex and is therefore able to comment on that?
    Why are they asking this child questions like this?!?!?

  284. It doesn’t sound like he was arguing about anything. The only thing he really said was that it didn’t apply to him.
    and despite our extravagance, we do have some control over our behavior and can choose to act on it or not. Hunger is not controllable and people fast all of the time.
    Give the kid a break.

  285. For all you “bible thumpers”, find a new law. The bible also says to sell your slaves and stone your children to death and sell your daughters, so you wanna go ahead and do that, too? Get over yourselves and find a new reason to judge people, something you shouldn’t be doing. Yeah, I read the bible, so suck it, losers!

  286. Justin bieber is just another idiotic child who has no idea of anything, he is just a media showpony, he gets in front of a camera, and says something to get attention…

    As for the rape comment, and abortions, he is so immature and foolish he has absolutely no idea of the trauma women who are raped go through, so maybe he should keep his mouth shut, because all he is doing is showing the world what an imbicile he is!!

  287. This just in: EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion…….ps I’m gay…..

  288. To me he’s a tool. Plain and simple.

  289. Poor kid !

  290. He’s young. He is merely reciting what he’s absorbed from his mentors and has not formed his own opinions yet. So I find this article a little unfair towards Justin to be honest.

  291. put him back up his mums bieber

  292. “My position is pretty common in postmodern circles – try reading Foucault, Deleuze, Butler. ”

    LOL! French philosophers??? Yeahy, the pinnacle of scientific research. Try again.

    “Will, I realise that you are very hurt and angry but could you try not to be so shrill when you encounter someone who does not, shock-horror, agree with you.”

    Do not confuse anger with disdain. Disdain for those who peddle NARTH nonsense as “science”

    “But of course Will, I MUST be a religious nut, reading all this queer and postmodern theory and all that!”

    Anyone that mentions a “homosexual agensa” and uses the words of the religious right, well, what does Occam’s Razor say there, do you think?

    I have read your other posts and at each one I get less impressed and more convinced you are anything but what you claim to be. I see your grasp of science is not improving any more either. Good for you. Why try harder, eh?

  293. Joe-
    I hate to break it to you, but there’s a little thing called Pheromones. Our sex drives are because our pheromones react with another’s pheromones thus making you want to have sex. Pheromones are not something you can control, and are triggered by an available state of mating. In other words, you hit puberty and suddenly you are sexually attracted to someone else. These pheromones are pre determined by your DNA. Alpha and Omega are as much determined by pheromones as anything else. It is far more likely for an Alpha wolf to pass down the genetics for another alpha than for an omega to pass it along. This is why there is survival of the fittest in the wild. (Which there ARE gay animals, which completely defeats the hypothesis that it can be something learned from your environment.) I know someone will say, but then gay animals would be eliminated because they can’t reproduce. There are still organisms that reproduce in other ways, so that is not a valid argument either. I do NOT think it is a choice. All unbiased resources of information back up my opinion. You are born that way, and your pheromones react beyond your control. Sure, you can ignore them, and that is a choice. However, your sexual attraction to anyone is NOT. Your pheromones either react or they don’t. you cannot FORCE them too. As for the examples of people ‘changing suddenly’ it was always in there and capable of being triggered, however the right balance of the chemical pheromone had not been released yet. In other words, they hadn’t met the person that chemically fit them yet. You are born with your DNA, when you hit puberty the pheromones for sexual attraction kick in (influenced by DNA.) How can you logically say there is no scientific proof for this? I can find proof about pheromones in two seconds of google searching if I wanted to. Here, I’ll even give you a link to one of MANY different places that say so. http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Importance-of-the-Pheromones&id=5948964

  294. this guy hasnt even reached Puberty,
    hes so immature.

    hes a one day….wont be around by the time hes 20…..

  295. he cant´t sing.
    rest in peace.

  296. I think his words about being gay were taken wrongly – he just didn’t state it clearly. He’s often on Ellen Degeneres’ show and they seem to be close so I doubt he’s a homophobe to be honest.

  297. I’m a Christian who was on this site because a friend of mine put me on to one of the articles and I kinda chained my way through on here. I’m sympathetic to most things on here, but. . . The majority of this audience knows persecution first hand. Knows what it’s like for people to single you out and assume things about you just because of one facet of your life. It’s saddening, then, to see some turn around and treat others with the same hateful diatribe. Because I’m a Christian, I’m unintelligent? Immoral? Hypocritical? Evil? A redneck? These are arguments that sound a hell of a lot like what people say when they’re being discriminatory. You’re a human being. I understand there are some impulses that can’t be controlled, and I’m not arguing that they should be. Hate has to stop ON BOTH SIDES for these issues to EVER disappear. The vast majority of Christians, at least in my area, don’t hate bisexuals/gays/lesbians/transgenders. They truly are trying to save the souls of someone they think need it. Misguided, yes. Unnecessary? Probably. Evil? . . . no. It’s not their business, but. The problem is, hate is always louder than love or understanding. I see now that many on this site don’t care for me as much as they suppose I don’t for them.

  298. @Ben — You say Christian as though there’s a uniform set of beliefs that all people who so label themselves subscribe to. This is not manifestly not the case — are you a Christian in the sense that an English Quaker is or a Westboro Baptist is ?

    People on this forum object not to Christianity or Christians, but to what they say and how they act. To represent that as motivated by anti-Christian prejudice is to diminish the responsibility that the people who make statements like LGBTI people need to have their souls saved ought to act under.

    You say you “see now that many on this site don’t care for me as much as they suppose I don’t for them” but you’ve not posted on this thread before — well at least not under the name Ben.

    You say you’re saddened to see hateful diatribes, yet you make no mention about the shocking abuse some LGBTI people suffer. It kind of suggests that what’s more important to you is that Christians are spoken to nicely and respectfully. Using phrases like ‘impulses that can’t be controlled’ supports this supposition.

  299. Ben wrote

    “The vast majority of Christians, at least in my area, don’t hate bisexuals/gays/lesbians/transgenders. They truly are trying to save the souls of someone they think need it. Misguided, yes. Unnecessary? Probably. Evil? . . . no.”

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Ben . . . thanks for trying to save our souls, but we really do not want this patronsing “We know whats good for you, holy than thou hypocrisy”

    Ben . . . keep your sky pixies to your self.

    Ben . . . If you cannot stand the heat, do not step into the frying pan

  300. Jock S. Trap 19 Feb 2011, 1:32pm

    @ Ben

    The difference is those negative comments from Christians are because of how people are born. Yet you choose religion you are not born it.

    Also who asked you or any other Christian to save our souls? From what? being who we are.

    As said it is totally patronsing. We are consenting adults who’d just wish that religious people would stop treating us as if they know whats best for us and as if we couldn’t possibly have our own mind to make the decisions for Our own lives.

  301. Who is he?

  302. @Harry

    I’m a Christian in the believe-in-Jesus sense, but attend a medium sized Baptist church in the South-eastern United States. I don’t agree with any one denominations stand on anything, but most have enough basis on the Bible and enough logic to be reasonable, in this areas of the world, at least. It’s the radicals that can’t see things in colors other that what they’ve painted them that cause most of the damage, and the church does have a debt in the fact that we haven’t fallen hardly enough on the perpetrators of these vile deeds. I use the general term because that is the term that was used in the posts to which I was referring.

    I know the LGBT group on the whole has been persecuted to an extent, from being teased all the way to being murdered. The people who do this are barbaric, and the fact they use my god’s name to justify it is sickening.
    Not even the basest animal behaves like that. I felt you would infer what I meant by persecution, but I am sorry for being vague.

    However, I would invite you also to CTRL-F the word Christian and see some of what comes up. Personally, when someone insults my faith, I am insulted. Just like if I insulted the LGBT community, I would guess someone of any of those orientation just might become offended. If someone thinks poorly of my beliefs, of who I am, they think poorly of me. I’d never posted on this site prior to the last post. Also, if you’re implying I am the poor fellow who used Leviticus and Romans, well. . . The old law has passed and Paul was a sexist, legalist jerk. I refuse to take him seriously.

    I’m not here to convert. I was just saying something that bothered me. Those “well-meaning” Christians are also ignorant, very often, of how what they say affects people. I have no say over your religious leanings, nor should I. I would however expect that same respect to be returned. You, however, do not seem to be one of the offenders. In fact, you use proper quotations and facts well and keep bias out of the argument, and salute you for that.

    I don’t want Christians to universally be talked to nicely- in fact, the ones that protest and say God hates this and that, I want you to yell at as loudly as I do. What I do want to emphasize is that those idiots who have those beliefs do not represents all of us.

    I will apologize again for my poor wording; by impulses you can’t control I meant simply that you were born the way you are, and nothing I nor God nor you nor puppies or Veggietales will change that. And why should it change? It makes you happy. Love is a beautiful thing- no matter who the partners are.

    @JohnK

    1) I never said those were my beliefs. In fact,I said they were misguided. You do you, man. I was just saying that many are truly innocuous, and what needs to be fought is not them, but their ignorance that leads to that intolerance.

    2) If I catch a sky pixie in a bottle, then use said bottle, will it restore health? If so, yes. They are mine. I need those. In all seriousness, though, I wasn’t trying to push anything on you.

    3) I didn’t say I couldn’t stand the heat, just that I am saddened by intolerance on both sides.

  303. @ Jock S. Trap
    (Clever Psuedonym, bytheby.)

    Who says I’m not born with a genetic predisposition towards religious ceremony? People can be hardwired before birth for any number of things. I don’t claim to know enough about psychology to say that that is what this is, however I am not so ignorant of it that I can’t entertain the idea that maybe there is a chance this is just another survival skill like any other.I don’t believe this to be the case, but who knows?

    I have no ability to save your soul, nor do they. They don’t have the right to push their own beliefs on you. I don’t say that to defend their actions; I say it so that we can maybe work together to help guide them out of their ignorance.

  304. @Ben — so we agree that the range of opinion of Christians is very large, from gay people should be killed to gay people should be treated exactly the same as non gay people. Given that, I cannot see how the term Christian has any meaning — and by extension, how there can really be antiChristian bias.
    Rather my searching for the bias you’re talking about, you should provide examples. We can then discuss any examples you provide, and talk about their context.
    You replied to JohnK that you were saddened by intolerance on both sides. Do you think the intolerance Christians encounter is in any way comparable to that encountered by LGBTI people ?

  305. “He’s gotta retain his squeaky clean all-American boy next door crown so of course he’s going to trot out the regular redneck Christian verbal diarrohea that passes for a sound byte in the States,”
    -CMYB

    “Well what can a christian kid say?

    That’s what happenz when you follow a child with religious parents. A little prick surrounded by bigots”
    -c.j.

    Also, just Christian used as an insult in general. I don’t like how Bieber’s mom indoctrinated him any more that anyone else, but I would go more “idiotic” than “idiotic Christian” because, well, while there is some overlap (as with any group) these posts in context implies Christian as a contributor for the idiocy. Trust me, she generates enough on her own to need some from any outside source. It’s like when two people are arguing, and one person brings up race or religion or sexuality. . . what does that matter? Why the vehemence? And while it is a broad term, that’s part of what makes it offensive- as an insult. Coloring millions of people with the same brush is pretty indicative of intolerance.

    If you are asking me if I think the severity of the two are equal, then no. But I do believe intolerance is there on both sides, and I believe that this keeps the two sides from getting to know each other and see that both sides are filled with some really awesome people. No, I have not been attacked physically for my beliefs. But it has had an effect on my life, cost me some friends,due to my beliefs. I have lost Christian friends who judged me for my accepting attitude whom I have lost and been talked down to, and I have also been likewise treated by those of various orientations for my religious organizations. So, yes.in that small way, it compares with the exclusion. I’m not claiming anything outside of that though, but it’s still wrong..

  306. @Ben — can’t see anything particularly upsetting in what you’ve quoted. If that’s the worst of it, then frankly that’s nothing.

    “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.”

    Not even remotely comparable. When LGBTI people start using language like that against Christians, with the frequency that it used by some Christians, then we can perhaps talk again.

  307. Since the context hasn’t been established, it’s difficult to know what Bieber actually meant by his comments. I really don’t think he’s anti-gay rights, and I think it’s a sad state when someone expressing an opinion that people disagree with is considered newsworthy.

  308. Ben wrote

    “But I do believe intolerance is there on both sides, and I believe that this keeps the two sides from getting to know each other and see that both sides are filled with some really awesome people”

    . . . . . . . . . .

    I was wondering who these “Awesome people” are you mention.

  309. I think it is perfectly fine to imply that religion contributes to someone’s idiocy, in this case Bieber’s.

    It is idiotic to claim to know the universe had a creator, which creator that was, and then claim to know that creator’s opinion on who we should sleep with. This claim is by definition arrogant and stupid.

    People like Ben should realise that if you make such a claim, you cannot expect us to go ‘aah well that’s what he believes, we must respect it’. Well, I don’t, in fact I suspect those beliefs. Until you say how you know such information, then you must expect ridicule.

  310. “People like Ben should realise that if you make such a claim, you cannot expect us to go ‘aah well that’s what he believes, we must respect it’”

    Well said Adrian.

    And Ben, you have every right to believe what you want, but it is not the same right to impunity form having those beliefs challenged.

  311. I am a bit late to this discussion but I think the Bieber comments are those of a child not a man and his learning and growth hopefully is gentler and more effective than most of us had to struggle through. What I wanted to comment on though, was an internal division: The choice vs. born this way argument. I don’t think it is either / or. As a culture, we are so linear and dichotomous. I.e. Things can only ever be one of two ways and mutually exclusive. I think that yes, we are born this way but choice enters into it when you choose to live true to yourself, or not. As someone who came out at 28, with two kids and two failed marriages the choice I made – and in full knowledge of the hatred, discrimination and loss I might find – was to come out anyway – to live a life that was who I was meant to be. I have two things to say about this very fearful choice, yes, there was pain and loss and fear AND IT WAS WORTH IT. What ever they throw at you, living and loving and being fulfilled in a way that speaks to the heart of who I am – no price too high. I know there are some people who of secrecy and shame or some who can’t even figure out that way to be, who will go to their graves never having been truthful with themselves. So, yes, there is an element of chocie but it isn’t about choosing to be gay; it is a choice to live brave every day. And to all of us lucky enough to be brave enough, we get more than ample rewards. And ps, I secretly think that those folks like Mr. or Ms “Ibeleive”: the intensity of their religious fervour is in direct relation to their need to escape their own desires. Why the hell else are they hanging out here?? :)

  312. “So, yes, there is an element of choice but it isn’t about choosing to be gay; it is a choice to live brave every day.”

    I couldn’t agree more, well put, Tess.

  313. I dont understand how you guys can say so many harsh things about him. He is still young and thats his view in things. He didn’t say anything wrong we should all know how media works to twist peoples words to make their story better (juicy). Rollin stones shouldn’t be asking him things like that. No matter what his answered would of been he would of still be attacked.

  314. ‘Would of been attacked’?
    ‘Would have’, please, Alex!

    honestly, what do they teach people in school nowadays?!

  315. BruceWillisFan 19 Feb 2011, 9:04pm

    Again everybody just calm down. I know there are alot of people on here who hate Justin Bieber on ”what he didnt really say” in Rolling Stone Magazine. But I think he is absolutely gorgeous in the same way I think Aaron Renfree, Cole Sprouse, Tom Daley & George Sampson. but I also think Justin Bieber is a highly good actor. I thought he was very good in the CSI episode ‘Shock Waves’ & I not wait to see him in the next CSI episode called ‘Targets Of Obsessions’ which supposedly has a shocking end to his character. But I have also heard that actor Kurt Russell was that impressed by his performance in the CSI: Shock Waves episode he wants him to play his on screen son Jake Plissken in a possible third ‘Escape from’ film as Snake Plissken. which I think would be awesome & I also think that Justin Bieber would also be very good in a possible sequel to the brilliant Charlie Sheen action film Fixing the Shadow as a hot bad boy biker who goes into drug dealing starring along side maybe Christian Bale or Zachary Quinto. Phwoar I can imagin them two getting it on in a fight scene together with Justin Bieber & I also think that would be quite cool to watch too. still cant wait to see Never Say Never in 3D on Wednesday.

  316. Thanks you BruceWillisFan for sharing your diary entry for today with us all. We’re truly privileged to hear your sexual ramblings and how they relate tentatively and tenuously to this story.

  317. Having an attraction to people of the same sex is natural.
    Women look at women in a sexual manner, not necessarily attracted to them but just to try and see what a man might see.
    Its why women dress sexy, it’s sort of a game I guess.
    Some people however choose to act upon this attraction and make it more.
    So natural AND decision?
    No one REALLY knows.
    As for abortion… I don’t believe in it, UNLESS it is life threatening to the mother or rape has occurred.
    This kid is only sixteen, he doesn’t understand the world or how it works.
    And blaming his RELIGION for his answers makes all of you just as low as the next person.
    You can believe the biblical text of a religion and still not share its fundamentals.
    I’m christian and some of the comments are absurd.

    1. no its not natural….

  318. @Bandi — “And blaming his RELIGION for his answers makes all of you just as low as the next person.
    You can believe the biblical text of a religion and still not share its fundamentals.”

    I don’t understand your last sentence. You believe in what the Bible says, yet not believe in it ?

    It’s quite reasonable if somebody says their Christian to assume they hold that believe everything in the Bible:

    “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.”

    kind of suggests a certain hostility to gay people. Would you agree ?

  319. BruceWillisFan 19 Feb 2011, 10:51pm

    @Bill. Thank you for your surpport. good night everybody & see you all tomorrow. X

  320. Sorry to be so ignorant, I don’t choose to have a television, I am not a teenager and I mostly read the Guardian…

    WHO is this litlte boy?

  321. Bandi wrote

    “And blaming his RELIGION for his answers makes all of you just as low as the next person.
    You can believe the biblical text of a religion and still not share its fundamentals.
    I’m christian and some of the comments are absurd.”

    . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Bandi . . . I cannot understand what it is you are trying to say, could you rephrase this. Thanks

  322. “pre-MARTIAL sex”? Is this some new military requirement I don’t know about????

  323. Oh, and one more thing – Bandi says:
    “As for abortion… I don’t believe in it”
    Well, you silly thing, abortion is not an article of religious faith to be “believed in” or not. It’s a fairly simple, and safe, medical procedure. As it’s of fundamental importance in the reproductive health care options available to women, don’t you think you should consider not being so glibly – and rather incoherently – dismissive of an issue about which I suspect (if you’re a woman) you have no direct experience. And if you’re a man, I really think you should shut up and leave the political debate re: access to safe abortion to women themselves. As I shall now do.

  324. Bandi says:
    “As for abortion… I don’t believe in it”
    Well, you silly thing, abortion is not an article of religious faith to be “believed in” or not. It’s a fairly simple, and safe, medical procedure. As it’s of fundamental importance in the reproductive health care options available to women, don’t you think you should consider not being so glibly – and rather incoherently – dismissive of an issue about which I suspect (if you’re a woman) you have no direct experience. And if you’re a man, I really think you should shut up and leave the political debate re: access to safe abortion to women themselves. As I shall now do.

  325. Justin, You are nothing but a child. You have no idea what goes through the mind of a woman (or 15 year old girl) that has been raped. You should plead “no comment” next time you are asked a question like that.

  326. Stick to the singing, Justin. The less you open your mouth to talk, the better.

    1. @ Daniel – Hear Hear agree with that !!!

  327. I really think that this is taken out of proportion … his words “a decision” were far too criticized as for the abortion issue, while he is a famed celebrity we have to remember in the end he is a 16 year old kid. A 16 year old doesn’t really understand the issue well enough to make his own decision and is probably just going off of the people closely surrounding him.

  328. Wow, I expect to see him outside the abortion clinic I work at any day now — with his girlfriend. It’s amazing how hypocritical these so-called good Christians are when they are in the frying pan. And how absolutely judgmental these “Christ-like” figures are, screaming epithets at the girls who are our patients; doesn’t their beloved Bible not say, judge not, lest thee be judged?

  329. And don’t think 16-year-olds don’t know what they are talking about….we see them all the time. Yes, for abortions.

  330. How can someone ‘believe the biblical text’ of a religion yet ‘not share its fundamentals’? For instance, God either created Adam and Eve or he did not. You cannot half-believe it. Bandi, do you believe it and not-believe it at the same time? What kind of mental gymnastics goes on inside your brain to do this?

    If Adam and Eve did not exist, and were just metaphors, then the original sin didn’t happen either. And if there is no original sin, then there is no hereditary guilt, and if that is so, then what is the point of Jesus? (he didn’t die in fact).

    Face it Bandi, you have to stop yourself thinking too hard because you’re scared of the possibility that there is no point to, and no truth in, your so-called faith.

  331. Dangerousone 20 Feb 2011, 4:33am

    Shame on Rolling Stone for cornering a teen with questions about things he obviously doesn’t have the life experiance to back up his answers with. Agree with him or not this whole thing is a farce. What did Bieber do to piss them off?

  332. @bill: what sexual ramblings?

  333. He’s obviously wrong about the abortion thing, but I think the article takes his homosexuality comment WAY out of context.

  334. Really? This must be a sick joke… a publicity stunt. Forgive my language, but this dude’s a wanker

  335. Am i wrong in my reading of what he had to say as that he has had a struggle in this regard and had to make the decision because of his fundie xtian upbringing to be “straight”? i have never heard of anyone straight or gay having to make a “decision” on their sexuality. You either are or not. Period. As for the abortion thing i think it’s a pity that the goblin in the sky crowd seem to have made anti abortion theirs. Killing the unborn is wrong , end of. The morning after pill works for rape victims as well as those who are too stupid to take precautions. Oh and btw, i am a comitted atheist.

  336. Joe…”i went more with gay male fantasies” is the nub of the matter. In reality you were gay and didn’t make a decision to choose straight or gay , you were gay and that was the end of it. Now go away and have another tug.

  337. Since Justin was a child who’s mother was a teen when he was born, he must think that his mother could of easily aborted him. That might be the reason behind him not believing in abortion. We shouldn’t judge a person on one interview. He is a normal human being with an opinion and if thats what he thinks, so let it be.

  338. 333 comments an not one mentioned the fact that abortion can be avoided nowadays….The morning after pill, peeps. Its been available for years as all the best slappers know. Abortion is killing another human being. The day isn’t far away when abortion is prescribed to get rid of homosexuality and thats a scary fact folks.
    Its a pity the morning after pill wasn’t used by the mothers of a lot of the idiots who posted 50% or more of the above utter tripe.

  339. in the times of jesus their was probably just as many gays an lesbians then as their is now. as for the bible it was writen by a man that didn’t know any better. same goes for beiber, the brainless one

  340. @ boston – “Abortion is killing another human being.”

    no, actually its killing a collection of cells that have not yet formed.

    but regardless of when a human being becomes a human being – what makes you think you have a right to tell a woman what she does with her body?

    and as your comment seems to take a ‘moral’ upper ground when it comes to abortion – how does that equate with thinking that some human beings – just because they don’t agree with YOU – should have been unborn by their mothers using the morning after pill – that’s pathetic.

    as for – “The day isn’t far away when abortion is prescribed to get rid of homosexuality and thats a scary fact folks”

    where exactly did you get that paranoid delusion that you call a ‘fact’ from? are you a time traveller? or a psychic that can see the future? or do you just like making things up that have no basis in reality to try and scare people into agreeing with you?

    1. The collection of cells form after about 2-3 weeks of pregnancy. A foetus is fully formed at 7 weeks. Abortion is legal up until 22 weeks in the UK, though most doctors won’t perform it after 16 weeks. Ultrasound images show a fully formed baby of 9 weeks sucking it’s thumb. Most abortions take place at 10 weeks. Get your facts right. Abortion Kills babies – fact. It’s not telling a woman what to do with her body, it’s not approving of what certain women do with their babies bodies.

      I’ve heard predictions about how genetic testing in the womb will allow detection of mental illness and homosexuality. You work it out……..

  341. BruceWillisFan 20 Feb 2011, 8:25pm

    @Chester. I think you & Bill are both referring to my sexual ramblings about Justin Bieber. I hope you like my sexual surport on Justin Bieber. not like some of the other people on here who think he has said something horrible which he didnt really say anything of that sort because & I keep on telling everybody that he was actually payed into saying those things by his own publicist & manager who have told him to say those things to maintain his image for the sake of covering up his own homosexuality. But I still really like Justin Bieber. I think he is rather quite hot & a very good actor too.

  342. I just gained a whole lot more respect for Bieber

  343. “I just gained a whole lot more respect for Bieber”

    Really? Is that why you’re in a gay site, more respect for Bieber then you do for yourself?

  344. Justin Bieber is a mere child. His thoughts are irrelevant.

    1. in an ideal world. not a world that produced this clown though.

  345. At what point boston, does life begin? why the moment of conception? the reason why the religious crowd believe this is the important moment, is because a soul is said to be injected into the mix. Why not make it the point of ejaculation, with its complete set of chromosomes? Why should it be illegal to kill a blastocyst with about two hundred cells, and not a fly, with about 100,000 neurons in its brain?

    It’s hard to say where life should begin – development of senses, or nervous system would be sensible points. But to say that life should be protected from point of conception is banal especially if you are not religious.

  346. FloridaHank 20 Feb 2011, 10:31pm

    It’s amazing that Justin’s comments
    would siir up so much reacation.
    Almost seems you’re threatened
    by this kid’s view on life.

  347. This really worries me. Kids will listen to this rubbish.

    I really enjoyed the day when I sat down over a coffee once and decided I might try the gay thing.
    Seriously? What. A. T**T.

  348. They need to get him out of the Fundementalist church He is being brainwashed. I am sure that some real man is going to sweep him off his feet and give him the big one for his next birthday.

  349. People stop! Don’t give it a second thought. Go have a nice long bath. Put your feet up. Watch a good movie. Writing this much is this much more than I think the topic is worth.

  350. He’s a boy and has no idea what REAL life is like. He hasn’t lived! I wasn’t keen on him before this stupid interview, now I REAL dislike him! What a numpty…

    May I suggest Justine you actual live a little before opening your mouth and saying something really insulting and stupid!

  351. Eh I see homosexuality as a disease you’re born with, much like down syndrome. Abortion’s aight tho, prevents more minorities from popping out and invading the world.

  352. “Eh I see homosexuality as a disease you’re born with, much like down syndrome. Abortion’s aight tho, prevents more minorities from popping out and invading the world.”

    Yawn. I hate it when the fundamentalists can’t even be bothered to put a novel argument together. The brain just renting space there, Rob, eh?

  353. Dr Robin Guthrie 21 Feb 2011, 12:00pm

    “Eh I see homosexuality as a disease you’re born with, much like down syndrome. Abortion’s aight tho, prevents more minorities from popping out and invading the world.” – Rob

    I see that stupidity and ignorance is a disease you are born with. Abortion’s alight though, prevents more idiots popping out and invading the world, unfortunately not in your case.

  354. “I see that stupidity and ignorance is a disease you are born with. Abortion’s alight though, prevents more idiots popping out and invading the world, unfortunately not in your case.”

    LOL! Well said. And we should neuter his mother too, in case she tries to make another one :)

  355. The Bitch! 21 Feb 2011, 1:00pm

    With all the affection Bieber shows to his big black protectors, I reckon the lad is only Justin the closet himself!

  356. Mark my words in 10 yrs time there will be a huge media feeding frenzy when the boi comes out – denies christ and confesses to understanding that women should have a choice – until then he’s a teeny bopper with a hair that looks like the stylist simply sat on his head and farted -

  357. I am disgusted with all the comments about this kid and a fraction when a gay person gets killed.

  358. Id be very surprised if this article was true ..who now days really believes homosexuality is a choice ..i mean really!! ..lol ..and im not a big fan of abortion but for situations when rape is involved im all for it!

  359. I truly do not believe this is justins thought on homosexuality! esspecialy after i read that queted he has nothing against being gay

  360. Axe, I don’t think Joe was dissing your life. “From my own experience of being homosexual,” is the key factor in his first comment here. He’s not dissing anyone else’s sexuality, he’s just saying what it’s like for him. And just because you’re “technically” bisexual, doesn’t mean you can’t identify as gay.
    For example, I “technically” identify as pansexual – I would fancy anyone, lesbian, straight, bi, pan, trans or anywhere in between as long as I liked them as a person (obviously I wouldn’t date a gay guy as I’m a woman!).
    But I only go for girls, so I identify as gay. Just because I fancy men and trans men and women too, doesn’t mean I would have a relationship with anyone other than a woman.
    This is because I have a slight phobia of dating men (which is slightly inconvenient to say the least!), and because I identify more with gay or bi girls.
    Basically my point is we can identify as anything we like – it’s not harming anyone. And in a way, Joe did “choose” to be gay – just like I did. And yes, I would choose the discrimination, purely so I can be with the woman I love.

  361. Axe, I apologise. Seriously.
    I admit I didn’t read all of the comments as I didn’t see them…
    Fail!
    I still feel that if you are bi, pan, etc. you can “Choose” to be gay – though obviously not if you only fancy one gender, as then there’s no “choice” to be made.
    I think I was born pan, and chose to be gay.
    I respect both yours and Joe';s right to an opinion, but, to use a comparison to Joe’s opinion that I find similarly accurate – “The moon does not exist and is fact a giant lightbulb”, I think if you have an opinion that not everyone will agree with, fine. But you have to expect to get stick for it to some extent (even if that’s not right, it will happen!), and basically you can’t think “Oh my opinion is the only one that’s right”…

    So yea, sorry Axe!

  362. bex, there’s other name’s for people like you. CONFUSED
    …………I’m pan, i’m gay, ‘m a lesbian who fancies men, i like men, but i don’t like men., i choose to be pan, but really im a lesbian who’s into guys?????? – I mean what the fvck are you going on about?

  363. I disagree with what he has said, but, to be fair, I don’t see his comments as particularly overwhelming.

    He is clearly misinformed about homosexuality, but, if you read a little closer, actually manages to take an anti-homophobic stance. And, for actually managing to go against the grain within, what I assume is, a rather homophobic community that he grew up in, I applaud him.

    Regarding his stance on abortion, I see nothing wrong. I am pro choice, but am of the minority who is capable of seeing the pro life perspective. It is far from a universal truth that women should have the right to have an abortion. The fact is, by many scientific accounts, a fetus is a life, and much of the world views all life as sacred, regardless of development.

    Certainly, Bieber should avoid all political conversations, and should inform himself on homosexuality, but very little of what he says here is worth attacking.

  364. WHAT AN IGNORANT PR1CK

  365. It is truly disturbing how we have evolved from an ‘uncivilized’ tribal culture who honored its elders and seeked out the advice and guidance of its seniors, to a ‘civilized’ modern society which bases its moral values and opinions on the inexperience of ignorant children….?

  366. @Anthon — “It is truly disturbing how we have evolved from an ‘uncivilized’ tribal culture who honored its elders and seeked out the advice and guidance of its seniors, to a ‘civilized’ modern society which bases its moral values and opinions on the inexperience of ignorant children….?”

    Elders like http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/02/21/norman-tebbit-all-david-cameron-stands-for-is-gay-marriages-in-westminster-abbey/ ?

    I had rather we sought out the opinions of people who had thought rationally about them, regardless of theory, regardless of age.

  367. Harry . . . excellent suggestion that Anthon look at the Tebbit story.

    If only there was a correlation between age and wisdom

  368. Hmm … perhaps learning to use the keyboard might be a better course of action. I should have quoted this as a counter example:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/02/08/seven-year-old-donates-to-la-gay-centre-because-he-thinks-inequality-is-unfair/

  369. I can’t really say he’s a prick or whatever, he is what he is, in my point of view he is gay. And i believe that he does not wish to, it seems like he’s hiding the truth, and tries to make the “choice” to be hetero sexual.

    I also think that he should be careful what he says in public and stuff like magazines.. He must remember that he is infact a teenage Idol, people loves him, which will make his points of view a problem, when you think about his fans.

    one last thing. Homo-sexuality is NOT a choice, you are infact born this way. I am gay, and before I “came out of the closet” I myself tried to be hetero-sexual, but it was to hard to actually be hetero-sexual. So I know exacly what Homo-sexuality is and means. People that is not gay or know exacly what it means and is, should not go public and post their own personal meaning of gays, I mean, how do they know what it really is? they don’t!..

  370. He is just a kid who is becoming famous too fast…..what does he know about religion , politics & sex at his age…did he reach puberty?

  371. David Skinner 22 Feb 2011, 9:09pm

    It is Justin Beiber who is mature beyond his years and sadly whilst he continues to grow and become wiser, many if not most of the commentators here will prolong their emotional infantilism into premature senility if not early death with STI, without responible adulthood ever having occurred. Grow up folks

  372. “oh dear”
    First things first, What exactly do you think the “collection” of cells ultimately becomes. In case you are in any doubt , let me tell you…a human being, and that is from the moment the egg is fertilized.
    Secondly where exactly in my comment did i say a woman doesn’t have a choice. Nowhere. Women do have a choice but it should be exercised before there is a third party involved and in danger of being murdered. Also i notice you studiously ignored my comment about the morning after pill..
    and thirdly my comment viz the day when abortion will be used to get rid of homosexuality.. Your response was an ignorant diatribe. Are you completely ignorant of the advances in genetics . It is now possible to order a baby of whatever color, color of eyes , sex, intelligence etc. That is fact, whether you know or believe it or not, and given that fact the day IS NOT far away when personality, sexual preference etc will be able to be chosen. FACT. As we speak boffins worldwide are spending huge efforts on all these things so it is just a matter of time before such things are readily available.
    Before you come on here with your man hating homophobic diatribes, i suggest you are sure of your facts.

  373. Hey Bieber…..I was born GAY. I did not choose to be gay. God made me gay just as he made you straight (if you are infact straight). You should not speak of things you do not know. Stick to singing that crap you call music.
    Hugs………

  374. @David Skinner — “It is Justin Beiber who is mature beyond his years and sadly whilst he continues to grow and become wiser, many if not most of the commentators here will prolong their emotional infantilism into premature senility if not early death with STI, without responible adulthood ever having occurred. Grow up folks”

    This makes no sense.

  375. “It is Justin Beiber who is mature beyond his year”

    Ironically Skinner, you re no where near the maturity of your age. Run along now, your Complan is getting cold and your wife needs a good beating for having an independent thought.

  376. David Skinner wrote

    “It is Justin Beiber who is mature beyond his years and sadly whilst he continues to grow and become wiser, many if not most of the commentators here will prolong their emotional infantilism into premature senility if not early death with STI, without responible adulthood ever having occurred. Grow up folks”

    . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    David . . . what are you going on about?

  377. Who cares what this kiddie pop little tart says anyway. Rolling Stone has sunk to new lows in sensationalistic pop culture pudding they pass off as journalism. It’s turned into Tiger Beat with the odd four-letter metaphor thrown in. Just turn the whole world on auto tune and everyone get $400 haircuts every week – we’ll all be so much better off.

  378. He might be a child but he’s still in a position where he has a massive influence on millions of other “children” and needs to learn that his words have impact – he also needs some better education. It’s not like he can’t afford it financially.

  379. i just fear celebrity lead politics – even worse than regal ones or voted ones

  380. what does this lil snot know? nothing. go back to your piss poor singing

  381. How would Bieber know that being gay is choice unless he thinks about homo sex and decides to not act on it himself. From where is he getting his information?

  382. He is nothing more than an ignorant child, who knows nothing about gays, or unspeakably hard life choices. Beiber, you have been dismissed.

  383. Can’t we give this “born this way” thing a break, or at least recognize that not everyone fits that category, but we still have the right to make our own choices.

    I’m coming out of the closet as a chooser. Someone who reached a point in early middle age, when I abandoned my heterosexual lifestyle to live as a lesbian because I got to the point where I realized that women were more interesting to me, more supportive in ways that made me bloom, more sexually entertaining and generous, more intellectually compatible, etc., etc., etc.

    I could have stayed with my husband and avoided a lot of social drama, while I continued chewing my nails, having pyrotechnic daydreams in the company of my vibrator and staring out the windows, wondering what I was missing. My choice created a lot of chaos and pain for me and a number of other people.

    But it was one of the best decisions I ever made in my life. Was I “really” a lesbian? It was a question that was debated among my philosophic feminist-separatist friends. I was a problem-child — so femme that some of them kept grumbling about how hetosexual I continued to be. But I made the leap on my own. No wife-grabber lured me out of my marriage. It was my choice. And I celebrated in poetry, writing about the healing quality of the lesbian lifestyle for women who (like me) came from backgrounds of sexual abuse, loving the amazing women that came into my world and welcomed me into theirs.

    It lasted 10 years, three intense relationships of three, two and five years respectively, before I got dragged back to heterosexuality by the worst (and most seductive) man I’ve ever known. Whose not-so-tender mercies forced me to get serious about healing myself from the last vestiges of victimhood.

    And unless something surprising happens, I probably won’t go back to women. Another choice. Not because I “got straight,” but because I really hurt some people I loved that time. And hurting women is different, at least for me. I still feel their pain, because it is so much like my own. There is sexist implication in those words, and I apologize for it without disowning it. I’ve loved men, but I’ll probably never feel for them as much as women.

    So here’s a vote for choice. We’re all capable of so much responsiveness. I understand the political necessity of some of being born that way. But I wasn’t, and I was proud to be a dyke-in-training, even though I never really earned the certification.

    Oh, and who cares what Justin Beiber says (and he really didn’t say much). He’s an innocent, and apparently sentimental boy. He’ll grow up.

  384. When JB says it’s their decision, he does not mean that he believes it is their decision, but it is their choice to be with whomever they want to be with. Don’t be so hypocritical. You probably say the same thing

  385. Nessy Elle 24 Feb 2011, 4:25am

    I can’t stand Justine Bieber and when I first read the highlighted bits of his comments I thought “what a dick” but if you read the whole comment, he just words things badly, and people just automatically try and make it negative, and as much as I dislike Justin, I think it’s not really fair but that’s the media. With abortion everyone has their own opinion, thinking abortion is wrong, doesn’t make you a bad person. I personally disagree with him on that matter but with abortion it’s really to each their own opinion cause there’s arguments for every side. And with the homosexuality thing, I think he just doesn’t think about it much and worded it badly his half assed views. But I don’t think he has anything about homosexuals. I also think the comments he’s made are very unprofessional considering the influence and audience he has ¬_¬

  386. SAD COMMENT AS SO MANY GAY TEENAGERS HAVE COMMITTED SUICIDE DUE TO COMMENTS LIKE HIS,
    HE OBVIOUSLY IS SO IGNORANT HE DOESNT UNDERSTAND TRUE MEANING OF CHRISTIANITY

  387. “So here’s a vote for choice.”

    Then you are a very small minority. Just because your sexuality swings, doesn’t mean the rest of us do too. Listen to what people are saying to you:- we (as in 99% of gay people) know we were born gay. Its not political, its not choice, its a reality that we are faced with. Like it or leave it, very, very few ever chose their sexuality. You are an exception, becuase most of the remaining 1% are confusing choice with delusion.

  388. @kathawk . . . it is curious that the word BISEXUAL does not appear in your testimony or vocabulary

    I was wondering if there was a reason for its omission, especially since your sexuality appears to be bisexual; rather that predominantly lesbian or heterosexual.

    Since I valued your honest account, I just thought I would say that this is an observation; not a criticism.

  389. correction

    @kathawk . . . it is curious that the word BISEXUAL does not appear in your testimony or vocabulary

    I was wondering if there was a reason for its omission, especially since your sexuality appears to be bisexual; rather than predominantly lesbian or heterosexual.

    Since I valued your honest account, I just thought I would say that this is an observation; not a criticism.

  390. Give. The. Kid. A. Break. It sounds like he ultimately SUPPORTS gays, saying how people live their lives doesn’t affect him. His wording could be better, but I see what he’s saying and I can respect that. As for his stance on abortion, I might be pro-choice but he’s as entitled to his beliefs as anyone else. People getting worked up over this just want something to complain about.

  391. Amazing how this is still going. Will, keep up the good work, though I suspect you’re falling on deaf ears. Nutters will always be nutters.

  392. Who cares what he says. He’s just a “popstar of the moment.” In two years the kid will be gone. I will still be gay and loving life!! Woot! It’s embarassing he’s from Canada…

  393. “Can’t we give this “born this way” thing a break”

    People might be interested, or angered, to read these sites:

    DO GENES DETERMINE WHETHER WE ARE LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL, OR STRAIGHT?
    Position Paper by The Council for Responsible Genetics
    http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/ViewPage.aspx?pageId=77

    and

    http://www.queerbychoice.com/

    The question is by no means closed.

    1. @Joe — to support your contention that the question is by no means closed, it would be better to provide links to some published, peer-reviewed research rather than a couple of web sites. http://www.queerbychoice.com doesn’t strike me as a particularly impartial choice of name.

      Happy to discuss the obvious flaw in your contention when you’ve done this.

    2. Your site, and the paper by The Council for Responsible Genetics, only says there is no conclusive proof for or against, and the existing studies are weak. Nothing more.

      “Sexual orientation, like any other human behaviour, is experienced in complex and variable ways, which are undoubtedly influenced by both biological and societal factors.”

    3. You’re not the same Joe who when asked:

      “Why do you believe that no scientific proof will ever be found that supports to your satisfaction that there is no genetic basis to homosexuality ?”

      replied:

      “Because I don’t.”

      are you ?

    4. “Can’t we give this “born this way” thing a break”

      . . . . . . . . . .

      Perhaps we could look at your “Trauma theory”, which you put forward as an argument for the nurture end of the Nature-Nurture debate; concerning the development of homosexuality.

      Previously when you mentioned your “Trauma theory”, I got a sense that this was based mainly on Judith Butler et al’s contribution to Queer theory, and their post-modern reinterpretation of Freudian psychoanalysis.

      Presumably, like Butler you would argue that the development of homosexuality is based on object choice. The presupposition being the idea of the unconscious infant mind, and how it develops biopsycho-affectually; as a result of formative interactions through early objects relationships.

  394. The Queer by Choice website is an excellent resource. For example, it provides this excellent reading list:
    http://www.queerbychoice.com/gaygenelinks.html

    As to the Position Paper by The Council for Responsible Genetics, it is posted to counter those closed minds who posit that Twin and other “scientific” studies have closed the question. The question is not.

    As to Harry’s wishing to put words in my name, no you said I said that. It would be more helpful if you’d respond to the idea that science has not yet given any kind of definitive argument on this, and moreover that those who say it has (and some of the scientists trying to prove that sexual orientation is inborn) are doing so from an ideologically warped position.

    1. Joe 18 Feb 2011, 5:03pm Report Reply

      “Incredible. Another belief ! No-go theorems do appear occasionally in science, but not often. Why do you believe that no scientific proof will ever be found that supports to your satisfaction that there is no genetic basis to homosexuality ?

      Because I don’t. But I may be wrong. Why do I have to submit to your authoritarian demand that I “keep an open mind and be seen to”.

      As you said, I said you said. It’s just that you said it first.

    2. I’ve just been looking at your “excellent” reading list and it does contain no doubt mind-defying research, in such august and learned journals as The Kansas State Collegian, Wench, and MSN Chatterbox.

      It’s all unputdownable. I just can’t help notice that it’s not really published or peer reviewed, or remotely credible. I’m also reminded that the last ‘proof’ of your contention was contained in an undergraduate’s dissertation, that unfortunately didn’t support your belief.

    3. So again, to support your contention that the question is by no means closed, it would be better to provide links to some ,b>published, peer-reviewed research rather than a couple of web sites. http://www.queerbychoice.com doesn’t strike me as a particularly impartial choice of name.

      Happy to discuss the obvious flaw in your contention when you’ve done this.

    4. “are doing so from an ideologically warped position.”

      What “ideologically warped position”? What, all gay men are liars? Please. What utter nonsense.

      Seems to me you are very, very desperate to prove it was “a choice”, Joe. But do keep in mind not all of us are so weak minded that we have your psychobiology issues with being gay. I pity you. Really, I do.

      So far you have provided no proof of anything, just a weak argument and a few silly insults that you can neither back up or confirm. If it was so apparent that its “nurture” over “nature”, there there should be ample proof of that position given the number of gay people globally, such a massive sample base. But there isn’t. What do you think that mean Joe, from your “ideologically warped position”, hmmmm?

    5. http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/ViewPage.aspx?pageId=77

      . . . . . . . . . . . .

      The council of responsible genetics?

      I have never heard of this group.

      Having looked at your link; the group has no scientists on its team.

      I am not sure how it can claim to represent the science of genetics. Te group appears to be more interested in the politics of science, than pure science.

    6. Joe, you have not responded to me previous post about your trauma theory of homosexuality?

      1. @ JohnK – Joe doesn’t respond, he just repeats. Usually followed with some silly insult about the rest of us (i.e. every other gay person on the planet) being emotionally damaged for accepting we were born gay as the penultimate proof for his statements.

        1. @Will . . . I agree, it does appear that way.

          It is interesting how Joe can only attack genetic science, but is reticent at discussing the scientific basis of the trauma theory of homosexuality; which was presented earlier as a rational contribution to the nurture debate on homosexuality.

          It is also interesting how my attempt to pre-empt the basis on which Joe’s theory is perhaps founded, has been met with silence and avoidance.

          Will, you may have noticed the link Joe provided called “Queer by Choice”. I would just like to say that if this is the sort of material on which Joe builds theories of the world, one can only come to the conclusion that Joe is trying to pedal without critique; some form of obscure pseudo-science.

          I think it is more than a little bit “Rich” that Joe attacks genetic science, whilst failing to provide a scientifically valid counter-argument to the biological basis of homosexuality.

  395. Mr Bieber, you have just made the biggest mistake of your career. So I shall goodbye to you now, ahead of the rest.
    Have a good life.

  396. So…other than his views on health care, he’s a right-wing American. Who knew?

  397. Rape is a terrible thing, but murder is infinitely worse. Nobody can justify abortion by holding up rape as an example. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I’m proud that there are still one or two sensible, intelligent celebrities like Justin Bieber amongst all the deadhead bimbos.

    1. Oh, great. Just what we need in here…. Another person who thinks they have the right to dictate when a bunch of cells is technically a person and who should be forced to do what they want with their own bodies.

      Its not your place to make that call Rede.

      1. Perhaps it’s not my place personally to make that call, but as a human being surely it is my responsibility to protect others of my species from injustice. A person can do what they like with their own body, but killing another who happens to share their resources… no.

        1. “Perhaps it’s not my place personally to make that call,”

          Well you got that right.

          What you call an injustice is actually interfering with the rights of another person to do what they wish with their pregnancy. Do not be so arrogant as to insist your definition of “when life begins” must be upheld by everyone, and if you do not agree with abortion, then just don’t have one. Let other people make their own mind up, and as you said, you keep your nose out of their affairs, and everyone will be better off.

    2. @Rede . . . so I take it that you would deny the right of any women, who has been raped; to abort a bunch of cells from her body?

      1. I do not feel that the penalty for rape acts as a sufficient deterrent. Not only must the rapist be prevented from posing any further threat to society, he must also be held accountable for any resulting pregnancy by paying the entire cost of rearing a child to the age of maturity. Some estimates say this figure is likely to be $250,000. This would apply regardless of whether the baby was adopted out or not.

        1. Rede . . . your argument appears to me to rest on the notion that as long as the rapist pays for the resulting child, the woman who was raped; should be content with the rapists economic punishment.

          Rede . . .Why do you not think that some one who has been raped, would be content with this solution?

    3. @Rede — your argument contra abortion is two wrongs don’t make a right ? Not sure how that’s even really relevant.

    4. @Rede . . . perhaps you would agree with the Catholic Church on this issue, who have recently stepped up there pressure on doctors to refuse women abortions?

      http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/world-news/pope-plea-to-doctors-on-abortion-2557757.html

      1. Abortion is really a matter for the lawmakers to decide with the support of the populace, however it is specifically forbidden by the Hippocratic oath which most doctors subscribe to. I would not trust a doctor who violated their oath.

        1. Rede . . . in what way is aborting a cluster of cells violating the Hippocratic Oath

          1. The oath swears to protect human life “from fertilization to natural death”, to cause no harm. In most forms of the oath abortion is mentioned by name.

            By scientific definition life begins at conception. It’s philosophy and certain religious beliefs which argue otherwise.

          2. @Rede — 1. what version of the earth are you quoting ?

            In the 1870s, many American medical schools chose to abandon the Hippocratic Oath as part of graduation ceremonies, usually substituting a version modified to something considered more politically and medically correct, or an alternate pledge like the Oath of Maimonides.

            The Hippocratic Oath has been updated by the Declaration of Geneva. In the United Kingdom, the General Medical Council provides clear modern guidance in the form of its Duties of a Doctor and Good Medical Practice statements.

            2. No. By philosophical and religious belief, life begins at conception. Science understands that the situation is far more complex than that. Gastrulation is probably a sounder basis for the beginning of life, and that occurs weeks after conception.

            3. What proportion of fertilizations do you think are spontaneously aborted ?

  398. Why would anyone ask such an eloquent question to a 16-year old child? I think the person asking this stupid question should be the one under scrutiny. Take a leaf out of the US army book: Don’t ask (A Justin Bieber) won’t tell.

    1. Eloquent ? movingly expressive ? Not sure the word you intended, as you also talk of the question being stupid.

      I presume he or one of his media advisors signed off the interview afterwards.

      I disagree that the person who should be under scrutiny is the interviewer, nor do I think that sixteen year olds are incapable of forming reasoned opinions on such questions.

  399. Grand standing at such a young age, really do you think he’ll be around in ten years ?
    Certainly NO Bowie, Mercury, John…etc etc…Just another flash in the pan! Soon as he starts growing facial hair, his young fans will leave !

  400. Aww what a cute little kid. I’m sure he” grow up to be fugly

  401. If this plastic plonker believes homosexuality isa ‘choice’, presumably he also believes he was born gay but has chosen to be heterosexual ….?

  402. Guys here is a well made video about the LGBT community we made and posted on youtube,after the many suicides last year encouraging gay people to love themselves despite religious indocrination.Here is the link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n700edTcmxc

    Spread the word and help get it out there.We want to get it out there but but arent sure how to go about it? (Sorry for the spam :))

  403. Well, being gay isn’t a decision, but any sexual behaviour is a choice and decision. But a lot of people don’t see it as a bad decision, so what about it? But yes, abortion is wrong. I’m fed up with this idea that abortion is a woman’s right, what about the right of the unborn child? Is it any more acceptable to kill a living foetus as to kill a baby after it’s born? I think not. Abortion is a depressingly regular occurance in this country. Gay sex has NEVER lead to abortion!

    1. Rhoderick Gates 10 Jun 2012, 10:11am

      If you have a right to legally kill someone when assaulted with a lethal weapon then yes, you do have a right to kill.

  404. Oh please what the f…..k are Pink News even publishing this drivel for. He is a dumb 16 year old kid WTF has he got to say that is of interest to anyone with half a brain………

  405. He’s full of crap, being gay isn’t a decision just like being straight isn’t a decision. I can’t help but be mesmerized by a woman’s ass, I don’t choose that.

  406. It’s irritating to see people saying that he’s not mature enough for these questions. I’m 15, I can answer these in an intelligent, mature way.

  407. I dont care what anyone says, but he is not too young to understand these types of questions and how serious the topics are, and how easily he has offended so many people. I have just turned 16, he is older than me, yet I seem to be a lot more mature.
    To be honest, his views are ridiculous, and obviously the recycled nonsense that his parents have been pumping down his throat from a young age.
    All the same, I know people who have catholic parents, and have turned out being homosexual and having totally oposing views of their parents, so you can’t say it is all his parents.
    I can’t believe I was actually reconsidering my hatred for him this morning.
    Way to lose the tiny bit of respect you had left bieber.

  408. I don’t think many of you actually read what he said in response to vague questions on these topics. The reporters then start asking very risky questions in an attempt to trap him in his responses for the sole purpose of attracting media attention. He said being gay was a choice that didn’t bother him. Urges or no urges, it is still a choice to act on them. There is nothing wrong with what he said there. As far as abortions, many many many people believe they are murder! Many people believe that unless the pregnancy will cause you death, it is totally not okay. People have been protesting that for EVER! There are those out there who believe if you become pregnant from rape the best option is adoption. There is no reason to insult him for his beliefs just as you would not like to be insulted for yours! People are only ignorant when they refuse to see all sides of the story! Just because you don’t agree with his beliefs doesn’t mean there is a need to drag his name through the mud.

  409. well, basically he’s a knobhead!

  410. Any immoral urge must be fought against, even if you beieve the immoral urge is genetic. This applies to both paedophilia and homosexuality..
    Both are legal in all countries. It is only homosexual acts (sodomy etc) and paedophile acts (statutory rape) that are criminal in most countries.. Since it is lawful to be a non practicing paedophile and a non practicing homosexual in all countries and both homosexuals and paedophiles were ‘born that way’, does it follow that both homosexuals and paedophile urges are not a bad or immoral thing.

    1. What’s immoral with two consenting adults doing it, I fail to see a victim.

    2. Shut up Keith your a homophobic dick who is apparently just trolling this websites old stories because the nasty gays outsmarted you on all the other ones.

      1. The question was for VertMB though any are welcome to respond politely, Answering questions with abuse as is your general ‘Modus Operandi’ is widely accepted as a concession of defest.
        I have never been ‘outsmarted’ on any of the principles which I vigorously and successfully defend. the lack of intelligent response to my last question is a case in point!

      2. David Myers 10 Nov 2011, 10:43am

        I’ve got to give it to you Hamish. You really have Keith’s number down pat. I totally agree with you. Way to “read his beads”. Go away Keith the troll, even in the past.

  411. I hate him but to be fair he didn’t actually say being gay was a choice, also even if he did I see no problem with people thinking that, if people think being gay is a choice however remain cool with the gays then it doesn’t affect me.

    I disagree on his views on abortion though.

    1. It’s a dangerous road to go down with abortion I personally think until they have a personality it’s the same as killing a chicken or a cow.

      1. You idiot, “until they have a personality.” As you may not see it, cows and chickens are living creatures. Killing a cow or a chicken is not the same as removing a bunch of cells.

      2. woah you’re really justifying ‘Putting down’ a baby by comparing it to a cow at a slaughter house

  412. “everything happens for a reason” ? Oh please, this flawed Leibnizian fallacy of trying to diminish the suffering of the world by saying that all the evils that happen in the world happen for some greater good doesn’t have any credit anymore since the times of Voltaire !

  413. No JB, God creates all gays and love all gays and abortion is a woman’s right if she wants one or not, and God will still love her no matter which she chooses to do.

  414. who wants to a have rape child..rape is a horrible thing & i dont think any women would want to have a baby from someone who raped them..

  415. “Everything happens for a reason”. Tell that to the female person that is raped.! You need a new media rep. or did you just dribble this out Justin?

  416. We are so fast to jump on this Kid I’m gay and open about it. I dont see anywhere in his statement that he is saying being gay is a choice it reads to me that he is saying sex is a choice. Now for the whole baby issue well I can only say if the mother feels it would be best or was raped then she should be able to make that call on whats best for her and her family.

  417. i never thought i could hate him more. im lesbian and not by choice iv dated boys but only because everyone else did and i thought that was how i was ment to be but iv always liked girls, for some mainly bi people it can be a choice but mainly it isnt its just how you are like how guys like girls you just do you might not like guys you just dont you cant help it

    1. You made a choice to date those boys, and you made a choice to be with girls instead. I don’t understand why people are hating him for these quotes.

  418. The kid said that someone being a homo doesn’t affect anyone else; why is this a bad thing? He also admitted that he hasn’t been in the position of being pregnant because of rape and stated that he wouldn’t be able to judge that. He’s not homophobic or telling people what to do, he’s just answering questions that he has little life experience to draw on. At least he admits he doesn’t know everything – there’s hope for him yet.

  419. He’s *half* right about homoseuality. It is a choice, of whether to be out and proud, or hide and pass for heterosexual.

  420. Pro abortion and intelligent; I say we hang the bastard.

  421. Well, I don’t believe in abortion either. people always ask me how i can be so insensitive to those poor raped woman. And I don’t mean any offence and have the greatest sympathy for anyone who went through an ordeal like that. But I still don’t think that any baby should be robbed of its life.
    PS: I’m an athiest.

    1. because it’s not a “baby”?
      no one aborts “a baby”. they abort a cluster of cells.

      a baby is fully formed, has all of its parts. and is NEVER the subject of an abortion.

      P.S. I believe in a woman’s right to an abortion… and whether it’s relevant or not, I’m a Christian.

  422. I have never been disappointed in members of the gay and pro-gay community before, until I saw some of the responses here. This was completely blown out of proportion, taken out of context, and nowhere does he openly say he believes sexuality is a choice, and he even has the maturity (somehow) to say having never been raped and pregnant before, he can’t make a judgement call. I’m not a fan of his, but I really don’t see the need for the hate. He is answering questions that were posed to him, and he sounds to me like he is uncomfortable with them (or at least hasn’t actually formed solid opinions on the issues). I’m more angry at the interviewer for throwing a spanner in the works like that!

    I agree with him about homosexuality. You can’t choose who you are attracted to, but you can choose how you want to live, and who you want to have sex with – and it’s no one else’s business. I think that’s a good standpoint! Some people need to un-knot their undies and calm down.

  423. Gay Daily Mail Reader 5 Sep 2011, 12:22pm

    Being gay is not a choice, gay people living in countries where homosexuality is a crime cannot decide to be straight to avoid prosecution. As for abortion, it seems that being pro-gay also means being pro-choice. Not necessarily so. Chile and Uruguary both of which have good records on gay rights strictly prohibit abortion even after rape or if there is a threat to maternal health. I personally belive that the time limit for abortion should be 13 weeks, at the end of the first trimester, as in many countries.

  424. Tommy Monroe 5 Sep 2011, 2:24pm

    I think the ‘gay is a choice’ comment was just an uninformed, heavily suggested irrelevancy. It really doesn’t sound like he meant it.

    Although the rape comment was entirely unforgivable without question, I don’t think somebody this young (16 at the time) should be being interviewed for one of the world’s largest music publications about subjects that are this emotionally tender and of such huge public concern. With this in mind, I’d argue that the interviewer was partly to blame too – as a 16-year-old pop star, surely the only real focus should be on your music?!

  425. Don’t get me wrong, I am no Justin fan; but youer headline says he said ‘being gay is a decision’, but in the body of your article it clearly says “It is not clear whether he intended to label homosexuality as a lifestyle choice.” So, did he or didn’t he?

    This is classic bad reporting, the old headline ‘bait and switch'; say something controversial to get a reader, who cares if you’ve deliberately taken something out of context? Nothing annoys me more about the press.

    Here is his quote, separated from all that interpretation: “It’s everyone’s own decision to do that. It doesn’t affect me and shouldn’t affect anyone else.” He’s clearly saying ‘live and let live’. Get him for what he said about abortion, get him for having no clue about the real world, but don’t invent things to get him for, that’s cheap and makes you look desperate. If he’s that ignorant you shouldn’t *need* to exaggerate things; if he’s not then leave him alone.

  426. the “man” is a fool to himself. Fame seldom brings wisdom.

  427. He’s just a little boy, grew up in a conservative home with republican views. He doesn’t know any better. I just feel sad for him.

  428. Lol, well he obviously chose to be gay himself then…

  429. burningworm 6 Sep 2011, 8:52am

    There isn’t more authenticity if homosexuality is innate. Choice needn’t be a dirty word. And to be completely fair some people do choose it and we should celebrate choice.

    1. Spanner1960 18 Feb 2012, 10:25am

      Just because some people choose to have sex with the same sex does not make them gay.

  430. abort this dweeb ffs

  431. the bieber we know is attracted to his opposite sex only. I personally think that it is just the pink-media wants to fill up it’s front page with something hot as they see it.
    but the interesting fact is that justin’s watch is made by G-Shock, and it costs $99.99
    with selena’s purple scarf, he is tagged at:
    http://www.taggedfashion.com/justin-bieber-purple-cardigan-selena-gomez-purpl-scarf.html

  432. i personally think bieber is gay but in denial he is showing his interest in girls to hide it. he is into cock get out of ur closet bieber lad

  433. While it is a little worrying in that he is some sort of role model to some young people, who just might be influenced by his immature thoughts, I find it very sad that fewer than 50 people have commented here about gay men being hung in Iran whilst almost 500 (myself included now) have felt moved to comment on the thoughts of young Bieber.

    Is this even a story?

    1. I didn’t know that Iranian men being well-endowed was an issue.

  434. Yes he is young and yes this should never of been published, but the issue stands that he did say this and many of his fan’s will be influenced by what this young uneducated kid has to say, therefore we should be attacking his “ideas” with reason and logic, not him.

  435. Lukas Bhandar 8 Sep 2011, 8:01pm

    Justin, I agree with your intentions, but definitely not with your message. The truest quote from this article was “I haven’t been in that position, so I wouldn’t be able to judge that.” You are not gay, and have never been raped or considered abortion. That is obvious from this interview.

  436. This is a HORRIBLE thing for someone with so many young fans to say! Intelligent people know that homosexuality is NOT a choice, and he is wrong on the abortion issue too! Hopefully he will realize how wrong he is when he grows up!

  437. Since when are children allowed opinions?

    1. Staircase2 25 Mar 2012, 7:53pm

      Now that IS a scary comment…

      What kind of fcvked up world is it to think children shouldn’t be ‘allowed’ to have opinions…

      1. In the 19th century, children weren’t allowed to have adult discussions, so their opinions didn’t matter at all. They were simply ignored or dismissed when they tried to talk with someone adult about something serious and here is the same story, Bieber says something and people say “he’s just a child”.

  438. Justin should be ashamed of himself by these comments.

  439. FIRST he’s only 16 .. how did you think when you were 16
    Second – it’s OK to have such an opinion he is not an extremist and he has some principles… something which is big in the music industry nowadays..

  440. Caplettekid 24 Dec 2011, 12:19am

    I hate when straight people say being gay is a choice..How would they know? Straight people didn’t randomly wake up one day and say “You know what I think I’m going to be straight.” They just were, I don’t understand why a person would choose to be gay. Gay people are discriminated against, hated, and whatever else. Unless your an attention whore why would you choose to be gay..

  441. I think there has been a slight overreaction. He is a young kid who maybe didn’t fully articulate exactly what he meant to say.

    It sounds like he was trying to say it doesn’t matter re someones sexuality. I think some of the comments are similar to why people feel uncomfortable about race for fear of sounding racist.

    He’s entitled to his opinion and it wasn’t overtly homophobic, just not well articulated. Never mind considering his background this was probably quite a progressive stance!!

  442. Keith Simpson 25 Dec 2011, 4:14am

    Pimply little tit…
    Keith
    SALFORD

  443. (this is one of those read the second bit too posts)
    i feel a bit stupid, i get mad when people laugh about the hypothetical brutal murders of these pop idiots. i find it strange to be accepted in mature debate. am i so under a rock im unknowingly sticking up for fascists?

    this is a bit sinister though, he has millions of people retweeting what he had for breakfast.

    ..oh.. and neither i or justin beiber have the right to comment on abortion. (unless theres something else i missed)

  444. do we really care what this kid has to say? who cares, he is just a kid and of course his mom did some brainwash…like any or most Americans mom do

  445. jesus h christ 3 Jan 2012, 9:48pm

    he said having gay sex is a choice.
    that is true.

    1. He should take time off from his tour in order to go back to school…he is definitely lacking in the knowledge department…

  446. Now I know why I hate him so much! Insipid music and views!

  447. Michael R. Cooke 18 Feb 2012, 2:05am

    Poor kid, maybe he’s bisexual? That would explain a a lot.

    But generally, because he is a kid, I give him some license for ignorance and humiliating rhetoric. I hope he learns better.

  448. OMG, he’s turned 18, think’s he’s finally a man! Grow up bieboy, you have no idea of what life is yet, you have seen nothing.

    Where do you get off saying “everything happens for a reason”, since when did rape come under that banner!!

    Oh, BTW, being gay is how some of us are born, it’s not a choice, get your facts right and don’t rely on bloody religion to tell you any different.

    Am sure no one has told you that jerking off is supposed to be a sin, am sure you do that more than once a week!!!!

    Come back in 20 years time when you have seen more of life than your own closetted view at 18.

  449. This is a classic case of being young and confused.

  450. How fascinating. I wonder what he has to say about the electoral credibility of the East Timorean electoral system. And I’d be rapt by his analysis of Salafist Islam. He’s a child for goodness sake, and the idiots that asked the questions and the brain dead that responded need a slap. Metaphorically of course.

  451. Who cares what he thinks, the only talent he has is being able to sit still whilst someone brushes his hair.. a puppet of the uneducated atlanticists

  452. StopBelieve 24 Mar 2012, 5:54pm

    Thank you, Pink Paper, for putting that moronic statement under the spotlight. “Believe” it or not, people don’t really have to buy his next album.

  453. Ignorant and immature.

  454. Staircase2 25 Mar 2012, 7:50pm

    While I’m not a Justin Bieber fan by any stretch of the imagination I think Pink News has done a disservice by creating a headline which is out of step with the very words that the article quotes him as saying.

    He’s a child for fcvks sake! Its outrageous that PN should be doing this.

    Most of the comments I’ve seen so far (predictably) follow the headline as ‘fact’ rather than the actual words he is said to have spoken.

    Shame on you, Pink News…

  455. That is so sad, so much power to enforce change and the little pip squeak is living life with outdated, unhealthy and ignorant views.

  456. Just saw this, OMG! I’ve no time for idiots like this as he’s a kid and doesn’t know anything. When he evolves, he’ll be an average douchebag, but now he’s just parroting what mamma thinks. What a toxic upbringing.

  457. Isn’t this a eunuch

  458. Like I care what his opinion on sexuality is.

  459. Justin, make Canada proud. Don’t be like the nuts in the states. Stand up for what most Canadians do, gay marriage, tolerance and women’s rights. Grow up.

  460. This is the voice of ‘Jail Bait’ speaking? Or is it someone in his PR retinue trying to cover their tracks? Muddying the waters so people don’t look or question too closely either the Bieber creep or his PR team.

  461. And so speaks ‘Jail Bait’. From personal experience dear? Or are some of your PR team trying to deflect unwelcome scrutiny or your own or their own personal lives? Just asking.

  462. What does a KID his age know about sexuality, orientations or LIFE for that matter? He’s living in some bizarre “bubble” since before puberty and will probably never experience Life like any of his peers…

    So why do we look to him for “wisdom” or his “take” on it?

  463. SILLY LITTLE TIT.

    KEITH
    SALFORD

  464. Steve Masters 10 Apr 2012, 11:42pm

    When the “boy’s” balls have dropped and he grows up, maybe just maybe he might realise how ridiculous he sounds……. He really needs some good advice….

  465. What on earth does this spotty little nobody know about life? What a joke!

  466. WantsToKnow 11 Apr 2012, 7:50pm

    He was young when he said it…. is he STILL that ignorant!?

  467. And you are an ignorant little t*at who should learn more before talking of what you do not understand.

  468. I advise Master Bieber to keep his childish comments to himself, until he grows some pubes and his balls drop, at least! The CHILD obviously has no idea what he is talking about!

  469. I know this is old news and there’s probably no point commenting on it anymore but I can’t help getting angry at all these “he’s a child, grow up” comments. I’m 19, only a year older than Justin, and I’ve had clear opinions on abortion and gays since I was 12. Things like these don’t always have to depend on your age.

    Still I have to say I lost my respect for Justin when I read this article. No idea what he thinks today, though.

    1. He was misquoted, okay? Nobody verified if the words are exactly his or taken out of context, they just rushed to judgment and you are doing the same. Are you proud of it?

      That is the media circus, folks. Editing makes everything more interesting than reality.

  470. Like I needed another reason to dislike Beiber

  471. I’m so glad I never had any respect for Just Bieber, because I would certainly have lost it after reading about this.

  472. Justin Bieber and his views- just one good reason to support terminations up to 144 months! ;o)

  473. Not that I would wish for this, but if JB was raped and contracted HIV as a result, would he still spout the same right wing nonsense that, “everything happens for a reason?” I think not! It’s time everyone fights this religious garbage.

  474. It’s mean, lady Biber has got just done any “decision”?! Wilcome in gay-world, lady Biber, wilcome!

  475. Oh, so now we’re asking tweens and teenagers about the legitimacy of rape? Are you kidding me?? And what does some straight little christian boy know about what it’s like to be gay? He hasn’t even passed puberty yet!

  476. Isn’t “he” actually a 20 y/o lesbian? :)

  477. Little boys should learn to keep their mouth shut. Journalists should learn not to ask questions to little boys. Fans should learn that little boys with perhaps cute faces, and a minor ability to sing are not worth to be a fan of.
    Society should learn to ignore little boys like this completely.
    as an afterthought: did this little boy ever finish his education?

  478. Who gives a s++t about this person’s view. He is young and ignorant.
    The real problem is that loads of people (>400 posts on here) think what he says is important.

  479. Gary Marshall 15 May 2012, 5:26pm

    Little boy maybe you should spend more time on obtaining and completing your education instead of piddly music before you speak out on subject matters that you have no knowledge of or opinions that are not based on FACT.

    But I am sure your education qualifies you as an expert and people who have done research, written disortations and thesis on this matter that have then gone before peer review and then been published in a journal to obtain a PhD…They must be wrong then….

  480. Pradeep Mahadeshwar 17 May 2012, 10:41am

    Can’t believe a Brit award, teenage pop sensation Justin Biebe is sooooooooo dumb and anti-intellectual.
    He should have first meet a rape victim or gay person…

  481. This bum-ass, wanna-be gangster, unintelligent little boy shouldn’t speak on topics he knows not enough about. Like I’m really going to listen to someone whose hair looks like that and doesn’t respect himself enough to pull up his damn pants. Sagging does not make you look cool!

  482. It’s sad that JB is so unenlightened regarding gay issues and abortion issues. However when you live a sheltered life like his what else can you expect.

  483. if he was English I’d say he’s been stuck in front of the telly since the day he was born and is unable to separate Eastenders fantasy from reality.

  484. journalismisnotaprotectentitle 8 Jul 2012, 11:46pm

    The headline here is awful, and this article is a shame for proper, neutral journalism.

    The headline reads “Justin Bieber: being gay is a decision and abortion is wrong” tho later in the article it says:
    “It is not clear whether he intended to label homosexuality as a lifestyle choice.”

  485. Christopher 15 Jul 2012, 6:42am

    Being gay: abortion is a decision and Justin Bieber is wrong.

  486. David Skinner 20 Jul 2012, 11:35pm

    Some were blind but now they see.
    Some were lost but now the’re found
    Some were gay but now the’re free. Get over it!

  487. David Skinner 20 Jul 2012, 11:37pm

    There is nothing intelligent or intellectual about getting AIDs, HIV and throat cancer before going to hell

  488. Tall Stacey 19 Feb 2013, 3:18am

    Just one unwanted pregnancy away from changing his mind!

  489. If he was gay at least he wouldn’t be breeding little Biebers!

  490. He nor his “fundie” mother didn’t seem to be all that homophobic when Ellen Degeneres was promoting him to the top. She spent a lot of time and effort helping him make to the top ot the pop world,

  491. Are you nuts comparing a form of incest with two consenting adults?
    There is no comparison. Get off the soap box Keith.

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