another day, another attack.
When will the people on here who think that things are wonderful in the UK realise that they are not?
Nobody said they were wondeful
I watched the documentary on Uganda that Scott Mills did on Monday night. It was great that he was highlighting how bad things are in Uganda but what was also upsetting for me was his numerous reference to how privialged we are back here in the UK where these things dont happen.
Unfortunately although legislation is in place we still see violence against us.
on the contrary Dan: in another story a poster was attacked for saying that Anti-Queer violence was getting bad in the UK.
I guess it’s too easy to look at another country and say it isn’t bad here. In a way it’s bit of denial. Homophobia is the same the whole world over. It’s easy to use a country like Uganda to score points over who may be worse.
I have no doubt and after seeing the Scott Mills programme how bad it is. Uganda is a country that builds on this hatred, where it is illegal and it openly chooses to side with genocide. A worrying factor it is true.
Lets not forget that a lot of Uganda’s problem is directly coming from American Preachers.
The UK however is a democracy, openly tolerant/accepting of most in society and a country where people are supposed to be able to be ones self. Here in the UK we are able to be LGB legally and openly with the rights.
Yet in the past 5 years I have seen 3 of my friends murdered by homophobic thugs, 1 in the US while on holiday admittedly, but nevertheless its 3 to many. This is supposed to be a civilised country where people should not have to live in fear of being attacked.
I myself have experienced homophobia. With the help of the Police and THT I was able to escape and move on. I have to appreciate many other don’t nor know where to turn for help, if they dare choose to.
People may wish to condemn all those who make a stand against the homophobic behaviour in This country but is it really less of a problem because being Gay here is legal?
No, like I said homophobia is the same no matter where in the world. I agree regimes like that in the Middle East and some African are Very cruel countries do put homophobia on a different pegging.
If you ask me UK money that goes to these countries that openly call for genocide should be stopped and instead help finance the appalling legacy of an empty education system about Gay/Lesbian relationships left behind by Labour.
No this isn’t scaremongering. I guess if you live in some ‘pillow’ society it’s easy to deny there is a problem here but in the real world it’s plan to see. Most of the British LGBT community have either been a victim of homophobia or at the very least know someone who has suffered.
I’m all for trying to change regimes and an opinion of certain countries but lets not forget that this country too does have an existing problem. It is getting worse and more needs to be done to reverse this nasty trend.
People such as the likes of Melaine Phillips, Jan Moir, Stephen Green, David Skinner….(and the rest) have to take Full responsibilty for this Evil behaviour that is creeping into this society.
The buck has to stop somewhere.
not sure about the ‘stoping aid’ thing but I’m in agrement with the rest of your post Jock.
Oh but: lgbT not just LGB
Sorry I didn’t mean to leave out the T in the first LGB…. it wasn’t intentional. Apologise to all.
If not stopping Aid I think at the very least we should have a greater say where it is spent and even add educational conditions to the levels of Aid given.
Forgot to add..
We are giving aid to better a country surely it has to be right to expect some kind of civilised society back.
Another sad example of mindless morons on the loose… No doubt some of whom read the bile spewed out by the likes of Ms Phillips etc..
I also agree that homophobia is homophobia, but of course, state sanctioned and supported homophobia is far worse. Victims simply have nowhere to go and nowhere to turn.. In fact, reporting such crimes will probably lead to far worse consequences for the victim.
We all need to fight homophobia whenever and wherever we see it.
‘We are giving aid to better a country surely it has to be right to expect some kind of civilised society back.’
Usually all we ask is that they buy from our Arms Industry.
So whats worse?
Being abused, tortured and murdered in a country where homosexuality is illegal
Being abused, tortured and murdered in a country where homosexuality is legal
Surely there is no difference!
Both have to be tackled!
“Victims simply have nowhere to go and nowhere to turn.. In fact, reporting such crimes will probably lead to far worse consequences for the victim.”
Hate to burst that bubble but there are plenty of LGBT people in This country who still feel Exactly the same.
You may disagree with it but sadly it is fact.
Jock: I have friends who have been at serious risk, have nearly been killed, driven mad by the tortures, attempted suicide.
Things are bad here and getting worse.
We are not free or safe while we have the baying daily mail hate mob after us, inspired by the daily attack on homosexuality and transgenderism.
I don’t see the Christians and Muslims being humiliated, beaten, stabbed and murdered on the streets of the UK. They cry about being discriminated against, but nowhere does the universal declaration on human right state the right to discriminate trumps the right not to be discriminated against.
I blame the churches and the gutter papers for creating a environment that encourages the homophobia and transphobia we are currently seeing.
remember there are many attacks taking place here in the UK today against gay people which goes unreported its shameful.
@theotherone well said , there are some complete simpletons who are clueless to whats happening to their own community.
thankyou rapture and helen: I also blame the fact that the Economies on the slide.
No really. The problem is that if we sit back and do nothing now we will be left with no rights.
Uganda and many Middlle Eastern countries are very homophobic and cruel. They are also cruel to animals as noticed in the Scott Mills documentary where a live chicken was drenched in water and then beaten across Mill’s body by a Witch Doctor to rid him of his homosexuality. The chicken was then most likely executed or burned alive. They still have a medieval mentality backed and supported by various religions. We must remember that homosexuality has only been legal in this country since 1967 so other countries still have a long way to go – and we are still learning.
I don’t care for others learning; I learned as a child to be kind to others, good manners and all the other norms of Society however it would appear that some people did not.
hi dan f sexy photo! x
unfortunately when religious homophobes gets involved the basic stuff like politeness gets thrown out, even the bible says to do unto others as they would do unto you, many view human rights as a pain in the arse as human rights means homophobia etc is unacceptable, Uganda has it terrible like many countries that have religious loonies about but there’s still homophobia in the UK as this evil attack shows
When I was younger in the US, Houston specifically, there were a lot of problems in the gay neighborhood. The gay community itself started patrolling the streets (gay version of the Guardian Angels). The problems were lessened dramatically and quickly. The community cannot always just leave these things to the government, the government is simply too slow and there are too many in government who sympathize with the monsters.
yes mathew: we may well have to defend ourselves.
Hello Britain (from a US friend)… What’s going on over there? Homophobes coming out of the woodwork!
in another story a poster was attacked for saying that Anti-Queer violence was getting bad in the UK
@ theotherone: I think you’ll find it was the implication that it’s ‘getting’ bad that was challenged. No-one’s pretending that violent homophobia doesn’t exist, but instances of it are ‘getting’ better if anything – specially if you accept that a great deal of homophobic violence was not reported as such 20 and more years ago.
Incidentally, it would seem from this deplorable instance that such violence is clearly not restricted to the “cesspit” London.
I’m guessing (American Friend) that it’s to do with the absolute bending over backwards to please any and all Religious Groups that has been going on here for a while.
Added to this is an Economic downturn, a Muslim population radicalised by propaganda from Saudi Arabia that preaches intolerance of Non Muslim views, a backlash by Christians and a government who have introduced some modest reforms (that sort of thing gets the homophobes good and angry.)
If things are getting better as you say then why is Anti-Queer crime up five fold in Scotland?
Here’s the story regarding the rise in Hate Crime in Scotland: http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/02/08/scotland-sees-huge-increase-in-reported-homophobic-hate-crime/
And I also hate this idea that it’s just because everyone’s happy to go skipping to the police now. No they’re not; I don’t know anyone who has reported Phobic Attacks to the Police.
Fivefold from when? Not from 1985, I bet. Didn’t the article say that it is, at least in part, explained by the fact that more homophobic crime is reported as such today?
Admittedly it’s a shame how little homophobic crime makes the national press, but the same can be said about race violence (particularly that which doesn’t involve white people), which doesn’t mean racism today is worse than it used to be.
I don’t know anyone who has reported Phobic Attacks to the Police.
Well, if some people are like that now, how much worse must it have been in the past?
It’s a bit like domestic violence – you can look at today’s statistics and wail; but in past generations people (mainly women) put up and shut up. That didn’t mean it didn’t happen, and sometimes horrifically so.
There has been a FIVE FOLD increase in reported Homophobic Crime over five years and you’re not worried? What would panic you?
Again I would jump in with the call to organize and handle it. I have seen it work every time (I have been around a while ). Communities that police themselves improve their conditions. Granted it is getting harder, it is very hard to fight people who think they will be rewarded in heaven for their bigotry and violence, but it can be done. Numbers make a difference. Crowds are less likely to be attacked. And if a bunch of gays run after the attackers and attack them, after a few times they stop haunting the neighborhood and go somewhere else. If everyone carries a whistle and there are a bunch of gay groups patrolling the streets, well the violence will stop. It has been done before, lots of times, very successfully. Islam is terrifying, it is the only religion that totally suffocates freedom because it is the only religion that always becomes the state when it gains control. Fight, get involved, before there is nothing left to fight for.
@rehan the level of reporting homophobic crime is just the tip of the iceberg of the real statistics . people who are abused by homophobia, as my friends and partner and i were/are ,at first report homophobia then tire of just having a list of crime reference numbers and as nothing is being done see the process as futile. i do still report but i do have to get on with other aspects of survival also like work etc. Also i have seen that older generations of lgbt people have insisted that their personal experience and freedom of being gay has become diminished in contemporary standards in london not the other way around. your statement that because of limited reporting things are getting better is misguided. just because it may seem that there are more people reporting.it does not equate to what the real figures of this crime are. Yes london has become a dump now , its glory days are over and i agree that this epidemic of hate is not just restrained to this city.
@matthew i’m really glad that in the states there is a solidarity amongst the lgbt community, however, here there are still some very naive members in denial. Also this epidemic of hate is mainstream not just confined to gay ghettos and there are laws in this country regarding what could be deemed as vigilante activity.
It seems to be occurring daily but mind you when you read some police stats that there were around 1000 homophobic incidence recorded in a year, this is no suprise.
I thought we had a liberal secular democracy in this country, I am beginning to think otherwise.
I still have some hope left: we are seeing five men go on trial for stirring up Anti-Queer crime and a Government that has said it will not tolerate extremist views,
We can only hope they are true to their word and that it’s not to late.
‘I thought we had a liberal secular democracy in this country, I am beginning to think otherwise.’
Hopefully we can win it back.
theotherone….do you really think its better anywhere else? There will always be gay bashings, it will never be stamped out. No amount of education or legislation can stop it either. Its happening in almost every country but its not always reported. That said, I still wouldn’t want to live in any other country, having lived in four, America, France, Germany and Italy. As bad as some think we have it, I’d rather live in the UK anyday, faults and all. Utopia doesn’t exist. A trend you will see is when we gain more equality, the rate of violence against us goes up, aided and abetted by the likes of Moir, Phillips, Green, the BNP and islamic extremists with their venomous vitriole. Some of the religious cults are also culpable.
@ rapture and theotherone: I’m afraid that when you start using phrases like ‘epidemic of hate’ it goes so completely contrary to what I observe in this country in general, and have experienced in the past, that I simply can’t be bothered to argue any more.
It’s obvious to me that statistics relating to categories of offence that didn’t even exist 20 years ago can give a distorted impression of events, maybe it’s not so clear to others.
I must just live in a privileged bubble in London that is less “real” than elsewhere.
@ Matthew: what you suggest is excellent, however it really only works in ‘communities’ – what other people may term ghettoes. The two incidents reported today didn’t occur in one (at least not as far as I know re the East Yorkshire one).
Your fear of Islam may or may not be justified, but please remember that bishops sit in the House of Lords here, and though in many ways it’s rather toothless these days the CoE is the Established religion in this country.
…read some police stats that there were around 1000 homophobic incidence recorded in a year, this is no suprise.
@ notagain: does it not occur to you that it’s precisely BECAUSE we live in a liberal secular democracy that you’re able to read these statistics? Do you think such statistics exist or are recognised by theocracies or dictatorships?
reham: the category of Homophobic crime existed five years ago and that’s how they can say it’s gone up 500% in that time.
I really can’t see your point.
reham: the category of Homophobic crime existed five years ago and that’s how they can say it’s gone up 500% in that time
Yes: and can you imagine that in, say, the first year of this category’s existence, many people were unaware of it and therefore didn’t report incidents in the same way as they might 3 or 5 years later? It usually takes a while for innovations to filter into people’s consciousness, on top of which there would have been for some time the historical suspicion of the police and whether they would in fact be sympathetic because of a change in the law.
@rehan you are very lucky to have that “privileged” position in life and it makes it coherent your view on this issue and why you have it.
@ rapture: yes, maybe I am, and I daresay my own experience (entirely metropolitan) colours my view of UK gay life as much as yours does for you. Having lived in other countries also helps.
I agree with Robert above that there will always be a level of violence that will never be stamped out. What then becomes important is the level of support afterwards, and I think that’s becoming better in the UK every year.
for god sakes rehan: they where not recorded for the first time five years ago!
I really can not see why you what to deny the inevitable truth that Britain is not Gay Friendly and it’s getting worse.
You’re lack of concern for your own people is offensive.
Sorry – when, then? Can you tell me when homophobic crime was first categorised as such in all Scotland?
As far as I can find out, even as recently as 2008 one force (Tayside) didn’t record the sexuality of crime victims. So if from 2009 onwards it became a discrete category, OF COURSE the statistics would’ve jumped!
I’m beginning to find your conviction that Britain – all of Britain – is becoming less gay-friendly quite bizarre.
I really find no point in continuing to discuss this with you.
You wish to ignore statistical data in favour of what? A desire to believe things are just wonderful?
A desire to believe things are just wonderful?
No, I try not to see things in black/white extremes – so you’re probably right and further discussion will be therefore fruitless since you evidently do.
I note you still haven’t come up with the date of the first records though, nor do you address the issue of how statistical data can be misleading due to altered categories.
I could check when the first year that Homophobic crime was recorded but…there are five years of statistical dat how the hell is that not valid? Five sets of figures using the same permitters.
I should also add that there have been increases in different parts of the UK also – London, the SE and (if I remember) the NW.
I take it several sets of data that confirm each other mean nothing?