The immigration judge that made this ridiculus decision to refuse her asylum should be sacked for gross stupidity. Asylum seekers in the UK live in extreme poverty and she would not have had the money to buy Lesbian magazines, books or other media. She would also have had little money to go out to LGBT venues. his has no bearing on whether she is a Lesbian.
Immigration judges use sterotypes to determine if someone is LGBT because many of them have no understanding of what it actually means to be LGBT.
The UKBA often make arbitary decsions that someone is not LGBT becasue they do not fit a sterotype which shows extreme ignorance and I have witnessed this as well as homophobic abuse by UKBA presenting officers at the asylum tribunal.
Agreed Martin and its difficult to go out partying when you got the fear of death hanging over you.
And I guess she didn’t have short cropped hair and wear denim dungarees either. Obviously she’s faking it.
Does it ever occur to these people that we might not choose to conform to cookie-cutter stereotypes.
I’m not big on musicals, I’ve never studied to be a hairdresser and my interior decor is a disaster. By this token I’m straight.
How can she be someone’s constituent if she’s not a British citizen?
A Constituent is someone who resides in an MPs consituency, it has nothing to do with citizenship, and it’s a good thing it doesn’t.
As for the story, I’m a gay male who has never read a ‘gay’ magazine, should I not be considered gay?
I’d have thought that a person who has learnt to be fearful of people discovering that they’re gay because of death threats would probably avoid nipping down to newsagents of a morning and perusing their ‘alternative lifestyle’ section.
Whilst I do see that the system could and will be abused, it will be a difficult job to question some peoples honesty in claim of being Gay/Lesbian.
However I question this method used and then question more on what authority do these judges make their conclusions.
Just as I can see the system being abused for those coming in, what’s to stop homophobic judges abusing the system with their position and diberately send some home to a an almost certain death.
Surely courts needs to be set up with a panel of judges who have absolutely no opinion or bias on way or the other. They need to be judges with open minds and to have some knowledge of what it really means to be Gay/Lesbian in Britain. Not some old classic discriminating judge who is so far removed from public live they may as well live on another planet.
How a judge can conclude that Brenda Namigadde surely can’t be a Lesbian based purely on her not owning lesbian magazines is mind-boggling. Is this proof that judges are so out of touch and totally inadequate to deal with these types of cases? They have to know there has to be other factors.
To allow this woman to board a plane frightened is beyond human decency when it is clear her case has not being treated properly.
I will have to add that I do think it’s a bit rich of any Labour MP to pipe up unless they start including proper panels setting up to help Gay/Lesbian asylum seekers as party policy. Considering that party did nothing to help any Gay/Lesbian asylum seeker crying out for help not to be deported and sent to a possible death sentence.
The Tories need to act on this like they said they would but not using stuffy out of touch people, using proper panels with people that are best qualified to judge.
I hope Ms Namigadde is successful and can contribute to British society as freely as she truely wants.
Guys, we have to be careful. A lot of people will pretend to be gay in order to stay in the country.
I can see the judges point of view. Apart from her saying she was gay where is the proof?
That’s an insane way to find proof of someones homosexuality. I haven’t read or even touched a gay mag in years, because I find them annoying and completely irrelevant to my interests. And I know a fair few straight people who do read them because… They’re a bit weird, I guess.
Surely the only thing that proves a persons sexuality for sure would them ‘doing the dirty deed’, as it were…
Granted anyone can fake being gay if they really wanted to for a short duration.
However, to use an arbitary yardstick such as subscribing to “Attitude” or “Diva” is a bit like telling someone they can’t really be black because they don’t listen to rap or drive around in a Humvee.
I’m sure half the posters on this site would be deported if we were claiming asylum in the UK and confessed that we didn’t subscribe to a gay magazine.
I would hope that there would be a few more things on the checklist than “which magazines do you subscribe to?”
Even with its 97% accuracy rating, getting a lie detector test on the Jeremy Kyle show is more accurate than that.
She got £30 a week to live on and its paid onto a pre paid credit card that’s only accepted in a very limited number of shops.
She was unable to buy the magazines even if she wanted them.
The Boarder Agency knew she would never be able to meet this ridiculous burden of proof that’s no proof at all.
I’m certain she’s gay and agree that you don’t need to read magazines packed with adverts for dildos and sperm donors to be a lesbian…
But if she was somehow found to not be a lesbian, would it make any difference? People in Uganda believe she is gay, and this puts her life in real and immediate danger, especially considering the events of the past week. I’m just pleased she has the asylum she deserves now
British judge’s ruling on Brenda Namigadde: ignorant but typical
One thing that makes for a bad judge, esp in her case is someone who still insists we are ‘living that lifestyle’.
‘Those’ typical types need to be removed, they have no place judging anyone when they’re clear discriminating.
Putting someone on a plane to be deported to a country that has asserted it’s right to kill that person is akin to a mock execution, a war crime. Why is it not a civil crime?
I don’t read gay magazines…does that mean I am going to be deported.
Oh wait…you can’t. Unless deporting me back to Scotland counts.
The problem with immigration, tax or any other system. It will always be abused. Now this has been made known, how many straight immigrants who pretend that they are gay will now go and buy gay publications as extra attempt to stay in the country.
I agree that there needs to be certain steps to follow to confirm the story, but also need to be careful how this comes across.
“Immigration judges use sterotypes to determine if someone is LGBT because many of them have no understanding of what it actually means to be LGBT”
I completely agree. I understand that EVERY asylum claim needs to be checked, whether they’re applying on grounds of sexuality or something else but seeing that they appear to be using this daft measure of sexuality, I’d think they should be concentrating on devising a better system for assessing whether people are gay or not.
Jesus christ, there are no words.
The more the people find out that they can claim asylum just for loosely saying that they are LGTB without any proof, the more the real LGTB people will suffer, as obviously the sense of the asylum is to protect those vulnerable and not economic migrants, as much as we empathize with their dire conditions.
When a case gains notoriety it serves as a token for those looking closely for the cracks in the system, so if just your word is enough without further elaboration everyone can jump into the boat.
As I say, the worst scenario is the one the one that generalizes so loosely who can claim to be LGTB as to make it the most popular option to fake it, so the real ones will be left behind in favor of avoiding an avalanche of claims.
What about measuring her brain activity to some porn.
I know I’d love that if it were me.
Her country seems terrified of gay/lesbian people. It’s as if they genuinely feel that ‘God’ would punish them for anything other than hetero stuff.
Does reading Pink News count as proof someone is LGBT?
“And I know a fair few straight people who do read them because… They’re a bit weird, I guess.”
I’m a het that regularly visits various LGBT news sites, not because I’m “weird”, but because I believe in and support LGBT equality rights.
It seems a little harsh to emphasise the magazines as the title of this article does, when clearly they were only an example given by the judge of the kind of thing that might have satisfied his doubts, rather than an absolute acid test criterion on which the case was decided. He still seems woefully blinkered, however. He said the following:
“The Appellant claims to have freedom to live a life unconstrained and without prejudice. l find the information as to how she has done so over the lengthy period she has been in the United Kingdom singularly lacking in detail or coherence.”
How about all that not getting beaten to death by angry mobs she’s done while she’s been here?
I’m torn by this. Lots of indignation, and rightly so, IF she is gay. But very little in the way of constructive suggestion of how one is supposed to judge whether someone is gay or not?
On the evidence I’ve seen, I wouldn’t want to hazard a guess either way.
Its as daft as a gay person reading a British newspaper that are obviously not gay inclined. Does that make someone straight? Absolutely absurd and actually offencive to me personally. I wonder what the political affiliation is of these immigration judges? I’m sure that plays a part in their biased decision.
That’s ridiculous. If a heterosexual female doesn’t have any Playgirl magazines, does that make her any less heterosexual?
This judge is just looking for an excuse to deport her.
Who needs magazines these days?? It’s all on the internet.
Either way – has anyone read a copy of Diva? It’s quite high-priced for a load of drivel!
At least G3 is free and much more fun to read!
Well there’s the dilemma.
The only near foolproof tests I can come up with for telling if someone’s gay or or not where there’s a motive to lie would be either a lie detector (97% accurate), the pleismograph porn response test (only works on men) or getting jiggy in front of an independent panel of psychologists.
And quite apart from the human rights issues those throw up, those are only accurate to a point.
But magazine subscription is plain dumb.
Does this judge subscribe to hetero magazines, newspapers, TV programs? If not, then he or she is not hetero. This woman was denied asylum because she was not gay enoug?/ That is outrageous and beyong comprehension. The judge needs to b removed. All straight people are not alike, so why should gay people be so? This judge has a closed mind full of nonsense. Shameful! Disgusting! Bigoted!
All of us gay or straight should be outraged that the UK and this poor woman have been put in the situation where sending somebody to Uganda is in effect a death sentence. I have read already on this website that American Evangelical Churches have been stirring up a hornet’s nest of hatred against the small minority of LGBT people who live there. What should happen is that America should now offer asylum and protection to all those people affected by their meddling. Thank you Rick Warren for giving legitimacy for murder and damn you Obama for sucking up to this weasel during you inauguration!
“if she is exercising the real sense of freedom she claims”
The freedom to not read what you want? Freedom to be who you are without being killed? Freedom to not be judged by silly man in wig?
Only requirement for being gay is saying so.
Oh, well, I guess I’m not gay, just interested in the same sex… wait…
Either way I think at this stage it matters not whether she is actually gay or not; the case has been so well-publicised and she’s so widely believed to be gay that she’d be facing almost certain death if deported anyway. For this reason alone she should be allowed to stay.
How determine who really gay? Presuption of innocence apply here. Presume all say gay are gay unless proved otherwise. Even some gay people in bad country force have straight relationship. Unless prove lying must believe. Unless homosexuality is believed be lying?
the verdict is shocking!
may be gay asylum seekers should be evaulated by independent lgbt charity body, so any1 trying to play the system would be detered from doing it
You’d have to be desperate to attempt to abuse the system by pretending to be gay. You’d have to make it so convincing, considering how hard it is for people are are undoubtedly queer to get to stay, that it would probably become dangerous for you to return to your country of origin anyway. The opposition to this reform based around hypothetical abuses are privileged tripe of the highest order.
This is so appalling. This woman has to prove her sexual orientation while she face death threads. No heterosexual or British citizen would have to prove that.
@ Oscar: I agree. Whether she is lesbian or not doesn’t matter anymore – she’s known as lesbian, and faces death if deported to Uganda.
From what I have read, she fled Uganda after the home she shared with her Canadian (female) partner was burned to the ground in an anti-gay attack. Why is it seemingly so hard to believe her, when she has friends and former lovers to vouch for her authentic claims? Or is this yet antoher case of certain voices not carrying as much weight as others?
There is no conclusive way to prove something like sexual orientation. No, lie detectors, plesmographs, brain scans, etc, do not ‘prove’ anything. They may show this or that response, some shade of gray here, a bit more of reaction to this, but they cannot prove something as complex and multidimentional as sexual orientation (a gay man may react quite strongly to straight porn, for instance, if he thinks the guy in the film is hot; a gay woman from a particular cultural background may not respond to porn of anykind at all; etc). So biographical and narrative evidence will have to carry the weight for assylum seekers. Anything else would be inhumane.
In this particular woman’s case — it’s now irrelevant whether anyone in Briton believes she’s read enough lesbian magazines or not…. she has been highly publicised in Uganda as a ‘gay activist’ and news media and clergy and other knobs have called for her death. She is in danger no matter what she is. That is the issue now regarding her assylum.
“Guys, we have to be careful. A lot of people will pretend to be gay in order to stay in the country.”
Based on what evidence will ‘A lot of people will pretend to be gay in order to stay in the country’?
Part of the reason we don’t get more applicants for asylum on the basis of sexual orientation is the enormous risk faced by those who do submit such applications.
If your asylum claim is accepted all well and good, but if you’re from Zimbabwe or Uganda for example and having told the British authorities that you wish to claim asylum because of your sexuality, as with Brenda’s case, you can be fairly certain that gay, lesbian or otherwise, you are likely to face potential terminal recriminations upon repatriation.
On the subject of staying in the country, would a policy of letting people stay in the case of any doubt really be so bad for Britain? A comprehensive research study by the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM) at University College London shows that immigrants make a noticeably larger contribution to the State than native Britons, exploding the myth that they all come over to scam benefits.
“A8 immigrants paid 37% more in direct or indirect taxes than they received in public goods and services. This is even more remarkable because the UK has been running a budget deficit over the last years. In contrast, in 2008-09 UK born individuals contributed to the Exchequer 20% less than they received in terms of public goods and services.”
So looks like it’s the immigrants that are keeping us all in the land of something for nothing.
We have all kind of Islamist crack-pots in the UK we could deport, ones who make it no secret of their desire to send infidels to hell in some act of ‘Jihad’,
We have murderers and rapists walking free in Britain who we refuse to deport because of their human rights,
But it just seems that if you have a legitimate reason to seek asylum, you are denied.
Want to mutilate girls, force them to marry, rape and murder them for refusing, then your welcome to stay, if your gay and may be executed if you return home to the very religious culture, that all the lefties are trying so hard to appease at the expense of LGBT people, then your on your way back!
Welcome to great Britain, where the only rights are for those who believe in God.
I dont even know any lesbian magazines and i have lived in the uk all my life except for brief periods in ireland. should i be deported?
on reflection, is Uganda any nicer a place to live for straight people? Can you blame them for wanting to leave?
This is ridiculous in my opinion. I’m a lesbian and I don’t own any gay magazines. Being that she is an immigrant coming from a third world country I can understand why gay magazines/literature may not have been number one on her list of priorities. People have bills to pay. And she is Ugandan she likely cannot identify with much of what is discussed in Western publications.
I facepalmed. Instantly. This is almost as ridiculous as the French court that denied that transwoman’s legal gender change because her breasts weren’t large enough.
God save the queens.
“Guys, we have to be careful. A lot of people will pretend to be gay in order to stay in the country.
I can see the judges point of view. Apart from her saying she was gay where is the proof?”
Why would someone publicly claim to have done something that would result in their death warrant and social ostracism if their claim is turned down? I can see someone falsely claiming from the US to Canada: “sir, in the US I cannot get married as I am gay”… if they are went home, they might be ridiculed at most. If Brenda or others like her are turned down, even if they are straight, it is akin to saying “I am a pedophile” in hopes of getting out of jail: if it doesn’t work, you are toast. And perhaps she had lesbian relationships in the past but is bisexual as I am. If one took certain periods of my life where I were abstinent or with a guy, one could “disprove” my “claims” of my life being in danger in Uganda. But in Uganda, they want to put in the legal death penalty for “repeat offenders”, ie for ACTS not identities… they care not a whit if Brenda reads lesbian magazines or has a current female lover. If she was caught having sex with a woman even once it is illegal. If she does it twice over ten years she is a repeat offender. If it gets out by hearsay (or media and her own declaration), someone could quite easily bash her head in with a hammer and her fellow citizens will just say “oh good, she is sent to be judged by God against whom she has sinned”.
Right now her life is in danger whether she is “really” lesbian or not.
Forgive me for asking, but could someone tell me if the Home Office involved in trying to deport Brenda Namigadde is the same Home Office that a week or two ago was hailed by Stonewall for its diversity?
When cases like this get before a REAL JUDGE, the outcome is usually different. Alas, the dystem is such that applicants have been deported before an appeal can get into a real court before a real judge.
These asylum appeal tribunals are run by the Home Office who appoint their ‘judges’. They are therefore ‘kangaroo courts’ in my book.
…of someone genuinely living that lifestyle.
‘Lifestyle’? Bad enough that bigoted evangelists use that sort of language, I’d have expected better of tha British judge these days.
Well said about ‘lifestyle’
Perhaps the judge would have been more impressed if she regularly visited ‘haunts’ of homosexuals.
I wonder does one need to frequent Hampstead Heath to be a gay man?
97% of asylum claims based on sexuality and gender identity where rejected last year.
Asylum seekers would be stupid to try the lest effective way to gain residence in this country.
Remember until the government lost a court case a few months ago, the official government position was to send LGBT people back home and tell them to be discrete with their sexuality or gender identity.
Its ridiculous to suggest people are claiming to be LGBT to get in the country under false pretences.
What is this I don’t even! What, they think every single gay or lesbian person has magazines and books about it? Is it suddenly going to be a requirement of heterosexual people to have heterosexual literature around?
I’d like to see just how many people in Britain even bother with magazines or books about sexuality, regardless of what theirs is. Bet you it’s a tiny minority, and mostly doctors.
Stereotyping at its most disgusting. I thought we stamped that out years ago.
(Honestly, do they need all that much proof? If she’s lesbian, then a psychologist can confirm it in a short interview. If she’s had previous relationships with women, that’s all the confirmation they need – though with her being from Uganda I don’t think she’d have had many relationships, given the situation there.)
“97% of asylum claims based on sexuality and gender identity where rejected last year” – is this so, I am surprised that they keep statistics thus, and am surprised by this finding. It is like reading that 97% of Jewish refugees from Germany in the 1930s were rejected on the basis that there was no proof that the particular applicant was suffering persecution. Fills one with concern.
Andy Slaughter M.P. intervened because (a) he is a shadow Justice minister and (b) because Brenda lived in his constituency. Perfectly legitimate intervention.
Obviously some people do claim asylum on fraudulent grounds from time to time. Would being a lesbian be one you would spontaneously come up with? Is there evidence of the burned down house? Where is the Canadian friend? I don’t know the answers but it seems to me this case has the smack of being more real than a bogus claim. How many claims, and out of what total of all claims, are made on the basis of being based on sexuality and gender identity? What are we discovering here?
The immigration system needs reform. It’s a bad day when some senile, gin-soaked, old duffer gets to make a decision on his own.
Leanne “Right now her life is in danger whether she is “really” lesbian or not.”
So prove it. Name those people, demonstrate the risk, show the death threats. She hasn’t got anything to show her sexuality, let alone the risk to her life.
This matter has nothing to do with sexuality and everything to do with quantifiable evidence of risk.
Being gay in a homophobic country simply isn’t enough.
@Spanner – it is enough to be gay etc in a homophobic country, as pointed out earlier many people use to hiding sexuality isn’t going to stop plus many people don’t have an interest in the LBG mags for various reasons, I don’t have any gay mags as they are too stupid and too over-sexual
Chester: I totally agree with the magazine thing, I don’t read them either, but they are trying to find a case to help.
I reiterate: being a gay person from a homophobic country is insufficient. We would be awash with every LGBT person from the African subcontinent, not to mention the West Indies, Eastern Europe and most of the Middle East.
And then what about all the other political activists and ‘subversives’ who’s life is at risk? We can’t take on all the genuine ones, let alone the fakes. There has to be out and out PROOF that if they go back, they will die.
There’s no point in getting all emotional about this and feeling sorry for individual cases. The letter of the law is there to be followed, and it has been formulated that way for good reason. If that person fits that criteria, they stay, if they don’t, they go. It is as clear cut as that.
But Spanner, the fact this is now a high profile case both here and in Uganda means even if she is lying she is at great risk. Why would someone run that risk knowing full well if caught out they could sent back and be murdered for something they’re not?!
Don’t be blind.
@Spanner – there is proof she’s under threat/going to be murdered as that’s what happens in the country, some countries have men willing to rape lesbians just to show that the lesbians are really heterosexual,
plus the Uk can’t just send people back to their deaths cos it’s profitable to do so
I’m a lesbian and I’ve read maybe 2 gay mags in my life. Maybe they should revoke my gay card.
Jock S. Trap: Assuming the woman is a fake, one would think she thought she stood a better chance of fooling those here, if it meant she could get out of that Godforsaken country. Look at the daft things people do smuggling swallowed condoms of cocaine in order to make money. People can be impulsive and do stupid things out of desperation.
Chester: If they have *specific* proof that this person’s life is at risk, then that is another matter, but the fact they were trawling for gay magazines tells me they hadn’t got a scrap of evidence on her.
I have a (white) gay friend who was tipped off only the night before they raided his house in Kampala a few months ago, and he just managed to get out of Uganda in time. He personally knew David Kato, and knew he was targeted and on a ‘hit list’. He is British, so there were no immigration problems, but it is circumstances such as that where people can truly claim their lives are threatened.
This “Homosexual Agenda” I keep hearing about. Is that some Gay magazine I’ve missed out on? Along with “The Homosexual Livestyle”.
Clearly two publications I’ve missed out on.
i am 67, discharged in 1965 for being queer. in 2006, received 100% disability by the US Department for Veterans Affairs for the rapes and torture i experienced in the USAF. i have been as queer as i can be my whole adult life and have never subscribed to any LGTB publication. political, cultural, artistic or salacious.
that does not mean squat. i give good head still. that judge is a jerk, a rabid homophobe. who knows squat about gay lifestyles.
OK, so I am a Fem Lipstick Lesbian who does not have a single lesbo mag in her house. Therefore, according to him, I too would be subject to deportation if I was in similar circumstances to Ms. Brenda Namigadde. That judge is so full of narrow minded stereotypical BS!
@james – sod off
@Spanner – where’s she’s from and what the mad preachers are ranting is enough to begin but the homophobic system will ignore this just to murder her
isafakir: “that judge is a jerk, a rabid homophobe. who knows squat about gay lifestyles.”
And you are a reactionary idiot that obviously knows fcuk-all about the law. How can you say the guy was homophobic? Apart from the fact I know a couple of barristers and a QC that are all gay, do you seriously think judges just do what they think is right? They follow the LAW to the letter.
If it is in statute, they have no other choice but to carry it out. The only thing they are allowed to adjust is the sentence, which is also set within a range.
well now it seems that the UK now has precedent for Porn being fully accepted eh?
@Spanner – if he wasn’t a homophobe then why is he making such a dumb-ass statement? not everyone needs magazines as sexuality is expressed by feelings and actions
I’m sorry to yak on about it but I do wish your paper would try to report accurately especially in important cases like this. You have not quoted “the full text” of the judgment but, as I found out by half a minute’s checking, paragraph 30 of the judgement. So that’s 29 paras at least short of the full text.
Yes, everyone, these things ARE important when you’re spreading news for people to ACT on.
I was referring to the one that sentenced Isfakir.
Just as a matter of interest, just as a general question, how would *you* demonstrate you were gay?
(And forget the obvious one, there are plenty of ‘men who sleep with men’ who are not gay.)
Maybe it is a case of “Str8 men can’t bake quiche” ;)
“Maybe it is a case of “Str8 men can’t bake quiche” ;)”
Oh deary me.
You really do paint yourself as stupid as you are.
A gay man that comes onto all the Pink Paper forums and defends homophobia.
Is money involved.
What is your TRUE intention.
Are you shagging Melanie Philips.
On the payroll of the Daily Mail.
Jan Moir does it for you.
Perhaps a love nest with Stephen Green, with a bit of wife and child battery on the aside.
Are you really gay.
You seem to hate your life.
Is it your sexuality that is the issue.
Old family members casting you into their own version of what they deem hell.
The fact that you cannot escape your true self.
Disgusted by it, Loathing it.
Wanting to be part of the NORM, the easily accepted.
Just fit in.
Too afraid to come clean and just be yourself.
Well, it seems my suspicions were justified, and it wasn’t just gay magazines.
“She was unable to remember the surname, age, employer or other details of a woman called Janet with whom she claimed she had a six-year relationship in Uganda.
Nor could she describe a lesbian bar in London that she claimed she visited regularly. ”
I hope all you right-on types, particularly the pretentious fcukwit of a ‘Doctor’, can now eat their words, and not make sweeping statements until they know all the facts.
Dr Robin Guthrie : “Too afraid to come clean and just be yourself.”
Oh,that’s the point, I *am* being myself, and I’m very happy thank you. I like myself, it’s just little turds like you that don’t like gay people that refuse to fit in their stereotypical little moulds.
Well get used to it, I am not alone in my attitude, and we aren’t going away.
There’s a very simple solution if some asylum seekers are pretending to be gay, let gay people chat with them, they’d know instantly. It would save mistakes being made in the future by idiots like this judge.
I don’t read gay magazines either. Will they deport me?