I love the excuse of ´entrapment´… How can you be entrapped into saying something so unprofessional, something for which you could lose your license?
´you must be mentally ill´…. and ´you must have been abused as a child by a member of your family´ etc etc.. How can this woman EVER be allowed near potentially vulnerable patients ever again?
Comments and pronouncements like hers have no place in any kind of therapy.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was from the Christian side of things, deliberately trying to stall the case after the events of the B&B case to try and gather some kind of ‘new’ evidence.
Lesley Pilkington and her Christian buddies have been all over the media in the last week.
If anybody had unduly tried to influence the panel, its Lesley Pilkington and her media campaign of the last week.
Hmmm – something smells slightly off here.
Why would Ms Pilkington’s supporters be urging the police to investigate? Witness intimidation is a serious matter and if there was any evidence surely the police would be investigating anyway?
Why would any person opposed to Ms Pilkington’s case need to intimidate witnesses? She clearly broke the BACP rules so what would be the point?
Why didn’t these intimidators go for the Bulls too?
This all seems rather convenient – and how neatly it fits in with the ‘N*zi-like bullying gays’ theme we saw in relation to the Bulls verdict.
Wow these horrid people will stop at nothing.
Sounds a bit dodgy to me if there were to be no witnesses, it makes little sense to threaten them.
The police should be able to trace the alleged threatening phone calls anyway.
Besides that everything that the vile Andrea Minchiello Williams is involved with is a bit dodgy and makes little sense, misrepresenting facts (for Jesus) appears to be habitual, but whether CLC win a case or lose a case there is always money in it for her at the end of the day and plenty of bigoted donators to cover the running costs.
Don’t forget reparative therapy is one of their biggest excuses to discriminate against gays and lesbians and supports the false logic behind the dumb anit-gay claims of “lifestyle choice” so they will be really desperate to defend Lesley Pilkington any way they can, without any sound argument or science to mback them up they may even be desperate enough to turn to dirty tricks.
Watch the Daily Mail comic jump on the persecuted therapist story now.
Of course they’re crying entrapment – one of their Christian brethren has been caught committing the offence of malpractice.
But would they have cried entrapment if a journalist had gone undercover to expose a criminal gay, child abuse in an oprhanage or domestic violence or Fergie selling access to Prince Andrew? Or of this therapist had been ‘curing’ people of their Christianity? No, of course not, which just shows their hypocrisy towards the act of investigative journalism.
Either a media sting is acceptable where it is of benefit to the quality of our lives or its not and the interests of the wider public. Pretty easy to be consistent on the matter, I’d have thought.
If somebody is lying here I hope action’s taken against them. Was this story created just to get cover in the media and drum up support? It fits in so well with the recent articles about poor, victimised Christians, doesn’t it?
Of course, Christains would never lie would they? The Bible says they shouldn’t, so they never would, right?
Looks like the defence are trying to muddy the water to make Ms Pilkington look like another frail innocent victim.
“Trial of therapist who tried to ‘cure’ gay man is halted after ‘expert defence witness is intimidated”
I hope Andrea Minichiello Williams can prove this serious allegation
“Andrea Minichiello Williams, of the Christian Legal Centre, said yesterday: ‘Mrs Pilkington deserves to get a fair hearing by her professional body. In this case the homosexual lobby has been extremely militant and sought to silence by threats and intimidation.
Last night Mr Strudwick said: ‘I could not have known any details about any of the witnesses and I could not have intimidated anybody. The hearing was not adjourned because of any complaint about intimidation but because of all the media interest
in the case.
‘The other side are putting out information which is wrong.
It’s just the christians engaging in their usual lies, smears and whining.
If the police find (as they inevitably will) that there was no witness intimidation then these religionists need to be charged with wasting police time which is a crime.
You just have to ask who gains most by these allegations, to guess which side is behind them.
“Christian” extremists in America and Asia have been known to engage in “Heavenly Deception” , to discredit the gay lobby, and see it as a perfectly valid tactic in what they view as a war.
Here is the women on Radio5 on January 17th It would seem she has been talking to the press.
To be fair, any allegation must be checked out. That much is true of a democratic society, regardless of how unpleasant the accusers may be.
But if Strudwick’s comments are true, it won’t take long to throw the allegations of intimidation out.
Unless they made their own threatening phone calls. Either way it won’t stop the trial. If it did then everyone everywhere in the land could claim to have had witnesses threatened and there would be no more trials. Sounds like the Christian lobby are stooping to new desperate depths by lying in order to try and wriggle themselves off their own barbs. And if they are lying then they are running scared.
Celebrate.The end if nigh for the Christian Lobby. Hallelujah, Amen.
Religious and political fanatics regularly lie to advance their cause because the triumph of their ideology is the supreme good to achieve which everything is grist to their mill. Some years ago a Catholic acquaintance told me he had joined Opus Dei and was shocked by the lies and manipulation practised on recruits and members. On complaining he was blandly told that, since these methods were successful in converting people to their militantly Counter-Reformation Catholicism, there couldn’t possibly be any reason to object.
Thanks for that link Cleggy,
Ms Pilkington says she is working in alignment with discredited NARTH and presents their discredited pseudo-science as her evidence…nuff said.
Heavily biased anti-gay opinions presented as evidence, unscientific and unprofessional.
Am I the only one who is fed up with these Christian versus Gays episodes?
For example, 15 years ago when I fell in love with my then and now partner we were both essentially booted out of our chosen careers. Today, we enjoy a protection from the law that many of us could have only dreamed about back then.
Personally, i have no wish to stay in a bigotted Christian B&B/Hotel simply because the law allows me to. I’d prefer to stay somewhere I liked, and was welcomed as a paying guest, regardless of our sexual orientation. And, thankfully, I have found many, many wonderful hotels, B&Bs who offer a great service whether you’re straight or gay.
So why would any of us want to go and book a B&B with these types of owners.
Or in the case of this story, book a session to turn us straight with a clearly self-deluding Bible-obsessed, mentally ill lady?
Maybe it’s me, but elsewhere in the world our lesbian and gay counterparts are getting hung from trees purely for being who they are.
Isn’t it about time, we focussed on the real issues?
Whilst there’s always a chance that someone gets whipped up by the media circus and decides to put out threatening phonecalls, I seriously doubt Patrick Strudwick would have been personally involved. Anyone with any nous knows that witness intimidation is a crime and undermines your credibility in court. Besides it’s mostly defendants who resort to those kind of dirty tricks.
And that’s always assuming Ms Pilkington isn’t crying wolf.
When you book a B&B or a Hotel do you always check to see if they are christian and whether they mind you and your partner sleeping in the same bed.
If you don’t you may turn up some day and get turned away.
The real point is you should not have to check as the provision of goods and services to you is not dependant on your sexuality.
As regards this case what Patrick was doing was investigating the dangerous and unprofessional activity of conversion therapy, there wouldn’t be much point in booking a session with a therapist who wasn’t doing it would there.
In this case he exposed a person who was acting in direct defiance of her accrediting bodies rules and was endangering the mental health of vulnerable people. I think that is a good thing and if she is thrown out of BACP then hopefully she will have less opportunity to harm people.
And what if you broke down in the middle of nowhere and the bigoted Christian hotel was the only one available? Don’t think you’d be happy for them to boot you out then! It’s about ensuring equality in EVERY POSSIBLE situation that gay people may find themselves in.
As for the therapy, people turn to these quacks because of desperation. They don’t want to be gay. Why? Because the religious lobby has always told them it’s wrong, poisoned people’s minds and made people question their own nature when it was unnecessary. When they are offered hope, even the most rational of people will try it if they are that depressed. However, if you want to be a credited therapist, you cannot tell someone that God can change you – therapy has to be non-religious in the advice it gives. Moreover, the accrediting body cannot condone the use of an unreferenced, unprovable book that asserts unsubstantiated on claims about all aspects of society at that time, not just gay issues, as a viable cource of ‘treatment’.
If you don’t want to join the fight to stop the cycle that pushes gay people into the arms of these therapists, that’s your right. But don’t comment, don’t participate and don’t try to stop the rest of us that are trying to keep these laws upheld. Our rights aren’t enshrined forever, you know, it takes just one legal ruling to undo a lot of the hard work. We must resist all attempts for the religious to intervene in our lives, spread factless myth and offer ‘hope’ where there isn’t any.
Rearding our gay friends being hung elsewhere in the world, what can we really do from here? On this forum? We can pledge support, sign petitions and urgethe government to denounce such punishment. But that’s it. WE cannot change much in a theocratic state from a few thousand miles away. But, by all means, go over there and have a go if you feel so strongly about it. There is still work to be done here and for most of us that has to be the priority because it’s where we live. We cannot fight all of the world’s battles, even with all the will in the universe.
Now, you can go back to your idyllic life. Rest assured though, we aren’t the types to turn our back on our fellow gays, so if you do get discriminated against, we will still stick up for you. That’s because we’re fair humans who don’t just always think of themselves.
Paul it is great how times have changed for you and your partner. But the ruling on the B and B, is about the law and drawing a line. So lets say your are standing in the rain, tired, after a long journey and you want a bed for the night and you approach this B and B and they say no. Because you are gay. Ok it might piss you off, it might make you have to flog your backside around until you find a B and B that accepts you. Another time you take your partner to the nearest A and E, because your partner has had a heart attack. The doctor asigned to you refuses to treat him because he is gay. Whats the difference, there is none. The law draws a straight line, it does not go around, or up and down. If I had a B and B and a fat person , or a relgious person, black, whatever wanted to stay then rightly they should have a right too, and the law should protect them. With all due respect you do yourself and other gay people down by thinking that you should accept second best. Look at your last tax bills, that didnt take less to allow for the fact that some services would be denigned you. No they treat you with the equality that they treat others, and rightly so. I have been in business myself and have never treated any one differently. I have my likes and dislikes, but I keep them to myself or for choosen company. When I leave my home , not my business which is what a b and b becomes. I offer people the respect and fairness, that I expect back. Be pround Paul and enjoy the laws that have made your life easier, but dont turn your back and accept second best, because gay men and women in the past did not, and you and I, and many other have benefitted from this.
The fact that this witch uses the word entrapment is admission of guilt in my book. If you’re entrapped doing something then it really means that you’re doing something wrong anyway.
Paul, I too wouldn’t want to stay at a B&B owned by anti-gay Christians but the choice of whether I do or not should be MINE, not the business owners’. They provide a service to the public, of which I am part. If they want to run a private club then they should do so.
As for the counselor. You don’t think fight her is “important” either. Think about this. She is a HEALTH PROFESSIONAL. If she is allowed to use unscientific, snake oil techniques to “cure” homosexuality then why should another health professional not be able to administer drugs or shock therapy or other horrendous aversion therapy to cure homosexuality. If she is allowed to treat based on her personal religious beliefs then why should a surgeon or a general practitioner not be allowed to treat or NOT TREAT a gay person based on his/her personal religious beliefs?
You say we should focus on “important” things. I say that you are blind if you can’t see why these things are extremely important.
I would also suggest that it is erroneous to suggest that we can’t fight hanging gays in Iran, stoning gays in Saudi Arabia, arresting gays in Uganda AND fight illegal anti-gay activity at home. The two are NOT mutually exclusive unless you are unable to walk and chew gum at the same time.
It’s a shame there wasn’t a way of visually recording the session like they do for tellybox programmes like Panarama. That style of ‘entrapment’ is far more acceptable even to Christians. Of course not so when it proves then doing the wrong!
I always check out any hotel I book prior to booking, and look for online reviews etc. In fact, I don’t know of any gay person I know, who doesn’t do likewise.
The only time I’ve ever come unstuck in a hotel was when my partner’s father booked it for us when attending a family gathering. The hotel owner made it clear on our arrival that he didn’t welcome gay people, but, would reluctantly allow us to stay and we left. As I said earlier, I’d prefer to stay somewhere where I was welcomed, rather than under legal sufferance.
mmmm – I find your view point, or particularly the way in which you put your views across as bullying and objectionable. I spent many long evenigns along with others standing in the rain outside the houses of Parliament lobbying for change in legisilation. I also spent many years overcoming the bitterness at being forced to leave the career I loved for simply being gay.
As for my comments about gay people having from trees – two of my friends have ended up this way, one some years ago and one very recently, both of them have lived outside of the UK in Ireland. Speaking of which – Ireland have now allowed same-sex legal partnership – in the 1980s, I went to a lecture by Senator David Norris who at that time was the only out gay Irishman. I was in university at that time and was so impressed we had he had to say, I left my home and family to start in what I beieved to be a more tolerant country, the UK.
Since leaving I’ve been involved in a number of ways of helping to bring about a change in the Irish legisilation in relation to same-sex marriage including lobbying politicans. I’ve also wherever possible, provided help for families left behind after suicides.
I enjoy my life, and I enjoy my freedoms and wherever possible I’m trying to achieve a similar environment for others who are no so fortunate.
But, as I said previously I’m becoming tired of these Christian versus Gays public spats we seem now to have to endure.
Interesting, one of the people I knew who took his own life did so despite being a regular on the gay pub and club scene. It seemed that once he hit a certain age, he was no longer really wanted and in many ways I don’t believe it was the Christian right to drove him to take his own life, but the apathy and ageism that’s so rife in our ‘gay community.’
I don’t see many campaigns underway at the moment to ensure elderly gays, and those who fough so hard for the rights we all enjoy today, to ensure they’re not stuck away somewhere dying of lonliness (as many are).
As for the scenario my car break down or something thing befall me and I urgently need a B&B – I’ll take my chances here. There are always little subtle Christian signs to watch out for, as in the fish symbol, which would stop me knocking on their door.
To Jim and Dave G – I thank you for your polite argument.
I have had similar situation to you when my accommodation was booked by someone else. I used to travel a lot in the UK, Europe and N.America sometimes twice a week but it was before we had legal protection in the workplace so I had not come out at work. As I travelled so much my partner would come with me sometimes (at our own expense I hasten to add). My travel and accommodation was booked by the companies travel agent not by me and they usually had deals with certain hotels etc. I basically had to stay where they said.
I think we had three occasions were we were refused a room together and one were we were refused accommodation completely. That last one wrote to my company informing them that I had arrived with a man and that they asked that in future no homosexuals were to be booked in with them.
This only happened in the UK, but that could just be luck.
I had no way of vetting hotels before booking and it is why today I believe we should not have to.
The Christian Legal Centre seem to be playing this one for all they are worth after their defeat in the “Guest House” trial , if there has been intimidation where is the evidence ? It would seem easy to make accusations such as these but where is the evidence?
I wouldn’t expect Black couple to ask if they would be accepted, nor Jewish, nor Irish so why would we feel we should be treated any differently. I agree most wouldn’t want to stay at a Christian B&B but just as they wouldn’t expect to be treated with such discrimination nor should we.
Having said that I’m sure there are plenty of Gay/Lesbian Christian couple who actually wouldn’t mind staying at a Christian B&B. Why should they be discriminated against?
The law is there for Everybody, no exceptions, no opt-outs. No one group is more special that another, we deserve to be treated with the same respect as everyone else.
Only society has made us feel the need to justify ourselves and who we sleep with to others. We cannot expect to be treated equally if we keep making excuses to be viewed ‘differently’.
As with the case this story is about and the B&B story, it is not Gay/Lesbians who are being aggressive here. For years, decades, centuries Christians have aggressively stamped on members of society they don’t agree with. Those members have been murdered, tortured, starved, to name but a few things. It is Ironic that those very aggressive people are now accusing us of being aggressive because most of society is actually fighting back and saying no, that is not acceptable behaviour.
Thankfully this is a limited number of Christians these days but sadly they have a habit of shouting loud and being heard.
This is why it’s is more important that we show ourselves and let those bigots see we are not the small minorty they keep claiming we are.
I go along with the ‘treat people how you expect to be treated’ phrase but there is no way that Christians are being treated by Gay /Lesbians the way we have been treated. We just saying look, enough is enough, you may not agree with us but now is the time to treat us with respect, like any other human being.
In the end they are the ones excluding themselves. I have no doubt they will play nasty and dirty but it will be their downfull. Only they can stop that.
The Daily Fail has currently mentioned this story twice and both times painted the reporter as the villain here.
They have not mentioned that there are no witnesses or any other thing Mr Strudwick has said and are making this article as biased as they made the Christian hotel owner story.
Is there a way to complain about this as extremely biased reporting because i’m absolutely disgusted?
Paul your comment that we should be focussing on real issues is a bit unfair,
Considering that NARTH and the so called reparative ex-gay therapy it touts were directly involved in the development of the KIll The Gays Bill in Uganda.
The faux science and false statistics about the mental and physical health of gays that they present as evidence of a diseased lifestyle to make it seem desirable as well as possible for homosecuality to be cured is used to fuel the anti-gay crusade globally by Christian fundamentalists who quote the faulty and often faked research by NARTH as though it is valid research, as does Lesley Pilkington,
Young teenagers from disapproving Christian homes who are growing up gay are packed off often against their will to ex-gay boot camps where they are basically held prisoners by these homophobic con-men to be experimenmted upon and basically tortured in a futile attempt to turn them straight.
It is totally part of the Fundamentalist Chritian anti-gay industry and nothing to do with legitimate medicine & ethical therapy.
In the radio interview Cleggy provided a link to Lesley Pilkington refers people to check the evidence NARTH has to back uop the therapy she and they use, she uses the word we, so she is working with NARTH
In an attempt to cover their tracks, NARTH in the wake of the exposure of the heavy involvement of their group in the criminalising of gays in Uganda balifetime imprisonment (or death sentence) through Scott Lively
After his exposure they removed a lot of material from their site to hide NARTH’s strong involvement with Scott Lively.
“NARTH removes references to Scott Lively from website”
Excuse typo, that should have read “lifetime imprisonment” not
And pavlos, do you anticipate when Leslie P is struck off that Uganda and so on will change their policy in relation to death for gays?
Of course let’s not forget his ‘holiness Pope Benedict’ in all of this – here is a man whose church has preached widely that homsexuality is an illness and that those of us afflicted by it, should be prayed for.
Amongst other things, he describes same-sex unions as being ‘evil’ and recently elsewhere in Europe warned that countries adopting same-sex marriage legisilation were destroying the fabric of his society.
With such views, one would be right in thinking he should be denied access to the UK – however, not only did we the tax payer pay for his visit – he was also met by no less than the Queen and the Duke Of Edinburgh in Scotland prior to coming to London to meet the Prime minster.
I don’t see any difference between his preachings/teachings and that of any other Catholic priest in this country to the views held by Leslie P – yet, I don’t see any tribunals for shutting down Catholic schools?
I meant to add but left out that while he was recommending criminalisation of gays Scott Lively was simultaneously recommending enforced therapy for “homosexual offfenders” in Uganda as an alternative to imprisonment or the death sentence.
Thereby rumming up some lucrative business for NARTH therapists at the expense of human rights.
drumming not rumming…so sorry!
( my fingers have gone mad due to some brick laying I’ve been doing. in the cold weather.)
Curious . . . appears that this therapist has never heard of the world “Projection”
Also, it is interesting how this therapist enlisted the Christian Legal Centre to spin the “Christian-Victimisation card.
The feeble defence of Entrapment will hopefully be ridiculed by the BACP. This is clearly an inversion. The therapist appears not only to have violated her ethical responsibility towards her client, in relation to BACP guidelines with regards sexual orientation; but she also appears to have committed human rights abuses in the name of therapy.
. . . . . . . . . .
If for any reason this hearing gets played out through even more dirty tactics, I will draft a written third party complaint template for you to use; and to send to BACP (British Association of Counselling and Psychotherapy). The BACP only accept written complaints.
. . . . . . . . . .
BACP – Complaints procedure
The Christian legal centre only gets 822 hits a day, Pink News on the other hand get’s 23,757 and Pink News’s equivalent ‘Christian Today’ gets only 366 hits a day.
The wolves are gathering and they can smell blood?
The Christian legal centre only gets 822 hits a day, Pink News on the other hand get’s 23,757 and Pink News’s equivalent ‘Christian Today’ gets only 366 hits a day.
oop’s sorry, I thought the link URL had been blocked.
The only people who would of known any witnesses details were the Christian Legal centre, Pilkington herself and of course the BACP.
The BACP would not have leaked confidential information. So the question is would the Christian Legal Centre benefit from defaming the prosecution?
History has shown us the dangerous and militant methods that Christians will pursue in order to further their despicable and oppressive cause.
I hope the police do investigate, we could see a member of Pilkington’s legal council charged with perjury before this case concludes.
In a statement, the BACP said it had adjourned the hearing because it was “concerned that the confidential nature of [the] procedure was being compromised due to the disclosures made in the media”.
Only Lesley Pilkington has appeared in the media (Newsnight, BBC and other radio program and various newspapers over the past week.
The Christian legal centre seem to be becoming increasingly militant and stepping outside the realms of a law firm and into PR and spin.
I seems Lesley Pilkington has been the one trying to discredit Strudwick in her media appearances then getting the legal boot boys to slur Patrick’s name with these intimidation allegations.
If I was Patrick Strudwick I would report the allegations of witness intimidation to the police and let the sordid truth of what Lesley Pilkington and CLC are doing come out into the open.
And lets not forget that civil partnerships single us out and set us apart from straight married couples. Its all perception. Had we had the right to marry, it might have been harder for this couple to justify their discrimination be it opposite or same sex orientation, no matter if they only believed marriage is between one man and one woman. They said they only wanted married couples occupying their facility. I wonder if they advertise their business as a christian guest house? I wonder if that’s legal?
“one of [Pilkington's] key witnesses is said to have received threats and menacing phones telling him or her not to attend the trial.”
is “said to have received” ?
WHO said the witness has received threats and menacing phone calls?
Has Pilkington herself, the accused, said this?
WHO is the witness who has apparently been intimidated?
Without these two names being disclosed, it sounds very much like Pilkington and her supporters are playing for time.
I hope the BACP ask the above questions and demand answers.
Lesley Pilkington bases her gay cure therapy on research done by NARTH as she stated in a radio interview.
NARTH In The Harsh Spotlight After Rekers Caught With Male Hooker
Posted May 5th, 2010 by Wayne Besen
The National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) is back in the news after its most prominent board member, George A. Rekers, was discovered by the Miami New Times with a male prostitute he met on RentBoy.com.
This has put a searing spotlight on an organization that works hard to portray itself as reputable and mainstream. However, a closer examination of NARTH reveals that it has long been a refuge for disreputable characters, extremists and even criminals. It is a thoroughly discredited “ex-gay” fringe organization that peddles fraudulent “cures” for homosexuality. Sadly, a lucrative market still exists for anti-gay stereotypes disguised as science and the greedy ideologue “therapists” eager to profit from unnecessary pain. They take advantage of vulnerable people who want to “fit in” and exploit suffering families who are desperate to believe they can cure a loved one.
Read the complete article here:
Please check out this excellent youtube presentation from
Dr. Lisa Diamond as she eviscerates NARTH and the reparative therapiesboth it and
Lesley Pilkington tout :
‘NARTH Distorted My Research’
Here’s a direct link to Dr Lisa Diamond’s youtube video
These so called christians are nothing of the sort. They are bigots with an evil agenda of exclusion, lies, hatred, ignorance and irrational prejudice.
And, yes, there is a “gay agenda”-we wish to be equal under the law, with the same responsibilities, the same obligations, and the same benefits that straight people enjoy. Nothing more. We want nothing that others do not have-there is no wish or drive to secure any ‘special’ rights as these sorts would claim. Oh, and incidentally, these people are hardly the ‘victims’ here. Remember how many millions of innocent people the christian church has murdered through the ages-they are NOT victims. The Muslim faith has also murdered millions of innocents. Neither of these groups can even be the ‘victims’-they create victims, they are NOT victims.They just want gays to be their next victims-not going to happen-we will fight back-we are citizens just like you and we will not take lightly being victimized by anyone any longer. Those days are done. We have nothing to lose in our continued drive for legal equality. We will fight these christofascists until the end. Victims, indeed!
“Christian “therapist” makes accusations against reporter who caught her out”
Paul what you say I have taken on board, but perhaps if we look at the wider picture here this is not just about gays and the church. This is about freedom of choice. NO reglion should be invovled in making the laws of this counrty. If it was then which reglion would they choose and to what extreme would it be used in practice. A few yrears back some reglious people put on ruck sacks and blew up innocent people on buses and tube trains. They thought in there belief that they were right and justified to do this and some people in the same reglion agree with this. Can you imagine if the counrty turned to reglion as it has done in the past , to make the laws in this counrty a real possibliy again , and they took centre stage. We, in their eyes would have no freedom. In fact we would all end up in the dark ages or worse, be in prision. I totally agree with you re inverted discrimnation in the gay scene. Here we need to look at our own actions and change them.
“I always check out any hotel I book prior to booking, and look for online reviews etc. In fact, I don’t know of any gay person I know, who doesn’t do likewise.” Yes, quite possibly, but why should anyone have to? Do straights?
“Counsellors” often are ropey. Possibly policed by the BACP, possibly not. We shall see how this turns out.
Just read this account via the christian legal centre website and I find it really annoying how they pick up on comments from so called “gay community” voices and use their statements against the gay community, even in this case….
It’s not the first time they (christian orgs) seem to use PT’s voice as the word of the gay community – I do urge him to be more careful!!!!
from their website
Mr Strudwick ” …. has stated in interviews that no-one can change their sexual orientation and attempts to do so are extremely harmful.
However, in 2006, the homosexual rights activist Peter Tatchell wrote in the Guardian: ‘Much as I would love to go along with the fashionable “born gay” consensus (it would be very politically convenient), I can’t. The evidence does not support the idea that sexuality is a fixed biological given.’
His words can be a bit damaging unless he makes it quite clear he is not speaking for the gay community – I , for one, was born gay, I didn’t change along the way somehow and no therapist should be allowed to do such damaging therapy…PT words are being used as a justification that indeed we can be changed…
I guess some of you have heared this radio 4 interview
These self-identified Christians should really just mind their own business and leave us alone. We are not their concern; they need to focus on something positive for a change. We do NOT need any sort of a ‘cure’. They most certainly do though. They victimize far too many people and it is past time to make them stop.
I have to ask because it would be interesting to know.
When these patients ask for help are they offered councilling to determine why they feel so unhappy as with other therapies? Is an extensive amount of time given to work through their unhappiness as a part of that person rather than just being treated as ‘unnatural’? Do they offer guidence to why society is treating them like they do and to make sure the problem doesn’t isn’t just society based? Do they talk through the fears and unease these patients have?
From that how is a personal belief in pray and religion helping. It just surely is adding to what society has already contributed.
Or do the likes of this woman just gone straight into ‘curing’ blindly. How exactly is that professional? Are religious people really the right people to help others with their sexuality when they are already too judgemental.
Most people’s unease is basically what others will think and how they’ll be treated. Do they help then through that?
Just an example but isn’t a Gay/Lesbian going for help to a Christian not to be Gay/Lesbian a bit like a Black man/woman going to a member of the BNP for help not to be Black?
It is issues around that person that need to be dealt with not the person themselves.
Someone said that if they do this treatment for gender why not gay people. Do they know the length of time it take for a person to become a Transexual? Do these people think it is just a simple procedure that can be done at a click of the fingers.
I hope I haven’t spoken out of term but I’m just saying what makes some people think they can just change who someone by Biblical pray? By tell them they are mentally ill?
Anyone who thinks they can does not and should not deserve a medical licence. Furthermore if they still think being Gay/Lesbian is a ‘mental illness’ I would expect them to be as far away from practising anything medically as possible.
“Peter Tatchell wrote in the Guardian: ‘Much as I would love to go along with the fashionable “born gay” consensus (it would be very politically convenient), I can’t. The evidence does not support the idea that sexuality is a fixed biological given.’
It’s true, there is no evidence to support the idea that sexuality is a fixed biological given, whether you are straight, gay, bisexual, trans …there appears to be a wide range of factors involved, genetic, hormonal, environmental etc but it is generally thought that sexuality is fixed if not at birth then very early in infancy, certainly it does not involve choice.
Nor can a person consciously choose to change their sexuality later on, however through the course of a persons life as they age and change their sexuality may also change but not through conscious choice any more than we age through conscious choice.
The important thing is that all the legitimately researched evidence shows that it is not possible for a person to consciously change their sexual orientation, it is possible only for a person to change their behaviour.
A gay man who has gone through ex-gay “therapy” will still be a gay man who is attracted to other males and he won’t be any more attracted to women than he was before “therapy” , the most that bcan be achieved is that he will learn to deny his sexuality and for this reason the “therapy” itself can lead on to increased depression, shame, isolation and despair.
All legitimate professional medical and mental health bodies say that Ex-gay “therapies” or reparative “therapies” do not work and that they have the potential to be extremely damaging. Instead they advise therapists to assist people to accept and feel comfortable with their natural sexuality.
Lesley Pilkington is a menace with her Christianist agenda as her first and foremost concern rather than the mental health and wellbeing of those vulnerable gay people who come to her seeking help.
She refers to the junk & misrepresented research compiled by NARTH to pathologise gayness as a sickness and as an undesirable lifestyle.
She employs the discredited “therapy” as used by NARTH against the advice of all the professional medical & mental health organisations
Lesley Pilkington as ex-gay “therapist” is primarily an activist for the Christianist anti-gay industry
Unfortunately . . . this is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak.
I wish Patrick had chosen to expose homophobia and notions of reparative therapy still alive in NHS psychotherapy, and the covert attitudes which are still trying to keep NARTH philosophy alive.
Do not forget, NARTH was invited to the UK in 1996 to speak to the NHS Tavistock clinic
Despite the protest and debate at the time . . .
Reparative therapy attitudes still exist in the NHS, in a covert form; and we are still funding these through paying taxes – perversely
Why don’t the self rightous christians in this country try to alleviate the persecution of their brethern in islamic states( doing something useful with their vast funds) rather than impose the same type of evil persecution on lgbt communities?
“Lesley Pilkington as ex-gay “therapist” is primarily an activist for the Christianist anti-gay industry”
It certainly seems that way. And if she can’t keep her religion out of her work, then it’s very sad. She also appears to think she knows better than all the psychiatric institutions that have discredited the daft ‘ex-gay’ therapy.
She should have explored the reasons why her patient was unhappy not attempted to ‘cure’ them from something that’s not a disease. More importantly she was OBLIGED not to use the NARTH/SOCE therapy by BACP. Of course she should be disciplined or struck off if she refuses to comply.
This whole ‘witness intimidation’ allegation is extremely dodgy, in my opinion. If she’s lying then I hope she’s shown up for it. And how dare the Daily Wail print her accusations as fact when it’s merely an accusation. Seems like the CI may have new tactics as they’re unable to win by honest methods.
Isn’t this a bit of a storm in a teacup? I mean, how many gay men haven’t tried converting a straight man at least once in their life time? I am not defending what she stands for at all but Ms Pilkington was clearly set up, as indeed it was suggested that the hotel owning Christian couple were. Hmmm, I detect the foul busybody stench of Stonewall amid all of this. Far from advancing our acceptance into mainstream society, this sort of thing is likely to send us hurtling back to the Dark Ages…
I’m not a great lover of Stonewall but they did initially warn the hotel owners that they were breaking the law and the owners continued to do so….with this journalist they’ve given him an award for the report… (I think?) In these two cases I tnink Stonewall’s interference ,which I agree they probably are in there somewhere, is good …….just hope they got on with interferring more with marriage equality…
Erm so what if she was set up? The fact she is treating people as if they have a mental illness and the practise is totally unethical.
We feel it right to expose ministers for homophobia, or terrorists, or the BNP, all been filmed/recorded abusing their position and the country. Isn’t there a duty even in journalism to show these people for what they do and expose them?
I think it is, so what makes it so different when a Christian therapist is doing exactly the same? Or are we not allowed to for the Christian, God forbid should they do anything wrong. If you think they’ve been ‘set-up’ and that was wrong doesn’t that suggest double standards? Thats while it’s fine to show up others so long as we don’t do it to the Christians?
Where is that right and doesn’t that prove the point that some Christians want to be treated differently and above the law and everyone else. This is why they get the flack. When will they learn they are just the same as everyone else?
How someone Choses to be in life is not a right to condemn how others are born. The most special thing is human beings, one’s life choses are secondary to that and a chose way it doesn’t make them dominate.
@William, it’s difficult to get evidence unless you record a therapy session covertly as Patrick did, otherwise it would be just his word against hers and mealy mouthed as she is judging by the radio interview she gave she’d weasel her way out .
You are fooling yourself if you think the issue of reparative “therapy” is small time, for Christianists it plays a very large part in their anti-gay propaganda arsenal.
The manipulated research NARTH provides to back up anti-gay sentiment is referred to when making legislation
(Utah & Uganda a couple examples).
As to gays trying to get off with straight guys, it happens but it’s a one to one thing and it’s about human attraction, it is not at all related to this abhorrent type of highly organised and funded anti-gay industry.
Think of the straight girls who have tried and sometimes succeeded in getting off with you, certainly they have with me anyway…it did not change my sexuality,
I can’t see how preventing a “therapist” from applying abusive and discredited treatments will take us back to the Dark Ages William, it’s not a logical or reasonable comment to make at all, makes no sense.
“Isn’t this a bit of a storm in a teacup?
Do you not think that this is only a storm in a teacup, in so as far as it relates to Reparative therapy being benign?
Both the Royal College of Psychiatrist (RCP) and the British Medical Association (BMA) have outlawed these practices. Both the RCP and the BMA take the view that reparative therapies are unethical. The RCP and BMA base their evidence on empirical studies which highlight how reparative therapies can lead to anxiety and depression, and even suicide.
The RCP and the BMA have argued it will also investigate, discipline and bring a case against any medical practicioners who attempts to use reparative therapies.
“I mean, how many gay men haven’t tried converting a straight man at least once in their life time?”
Good to see you have a sense of humor. Did you have any success? – lol
“I am not defending what she stands for at all but Ms Pilkington was clearly set up, as indeed it was suggested that the hotel owning Christian couple were. “
Patrick Strudwick is an investigative Journalist, working undercover.
There is a long tradition of uncover work in Journalism.
In social science and psychology, covert participant observation is a legitimate qualitative research method
“Hmmm, I detect the foul busybody stench of Stonewall amid all of this.”
Although I am not aware of Patrick Strudwick undertaking this journalism as a representative of stonewall, I was wondering what you thought was underhand about the work of Stonewall?
“Far from advancing our acceptance into mainstream society, this sort of thing is likely to send us hurtling back to the Dark Ages…”
Both the RCP and the BMA are saying that Reparative therapies are likely lead to psychological damage or suicide. In what way is outlawing these practices sending us back to the Dark ages?
Let’s not forget the trailblazing success Geroge Rekers has had in his illustrious career as an ex-gay psychiatric consultant:
There is nothing unethical about an investigative journalist working under cover. Working under cover is often the only way in which fraud and malpractice can be uncovered.
Some years ago a consumer body investigated dry cleaners. They handed various garments in to various dry cleaning shops, having marked them inside with secret marks which would disappear if the garment really was dry cleaned. They concluded that in some cases the garments had had nothing done to them at all; they had just been shaken out and hung up for several days and then handed back, a charge being made for this. Had the dry cleaners been “set up”? No, they had set themselves up by practising fraud. An honest dry cleaning business had nothing to fear from such an investigation. I believe that similar investigations have been made of motor garages, for example.
If you are making claims that are likely to be widely regarded with scepticism, then unless you are a complete idiot, you must realise that someone, sooner or later, is going to start investigating you to find out exactly what it is that you are up to, and that they will be doing so without your knowledge.
“Is there a cure for pathologically excessive religiosity? What are it’s causes? Is there a link to excessive abuse of drugs such as cannabis in the late teens?
“Is it possible to cure such religiosity, or just simply to suppress the religious behaviour? Can it be said to be cured if the behavioral urges are suppressed but the person still feels religious?
“Is it related to Daddy issues? A distant or absent father resulting in the need to worship an invisible all-powerful father figure?
“I wish to set up an experimental therapy to see if we can return these poor unhappy souls to the rational world by exploring their relationships with their fathers, and suppressing their urge to manifest their feelings in antisocial behaviour. ”
A gay version of Ms P?
I wonder whether Ms P would agrees with this article from Ghanaweb –
Homosexuality & Lesbianism (Part I): Not Innate, The Possible Causes Examined
I found the theory of the oversized penis and it’s resulting causes of homosexuality and lesbianism fascinating!!! I wonder if the christian legal centre will be using this as evidence?
Agree with Deeside Will, in essence this is no different from the use of secret shoppers in department stores (which is seen as normal practice). You have to assume that anyone and everyone will be monitoring your professionalism (especially in such a risky area as psychotherapy) and may pull you up on anything you’re doing wrong.
If you’re doing something you know you shouldn’t be, you can’t blame entrapment.
From the radio interview with Lesley Pilkington.
Interviewer:”The Royal Cllege of Psychiatrists has condemned the type of treatment that you administer Lesley, they say there’s absolutley no base in evidence for it whatsoever”.
Lesley Pilkington replies:
Yes, well we don’t agree with that, there is a lot of evidence and if you’d like to get onto a website called NARTH, and if any of your listeners would like to do that then they will be able to find that there is a lot of evidence for the work that we do.
I have commented earlier and linked to youtube interviews that show how NARTH takes the results of legitimate research and completely misrepresents them
to suit it’s own anti-gay agenda.
I have shown links between NARTH and Scott Lively who helped create the groundwork for the “Kill The Gays Bill” in Uganda.
Lesley Pilkington as an ex-gay “therapist” is primarily an activist for the Christianist anti-gay industry.
There seems to be double standards at work here.
A case running at the moment where a professional carer of an old and paralysed lady was filmed by secret camera (installed by relatives) eating the food which was meant for the old lady causing her irreparable damage through starvation.
In this case it was the victim’s (ie the person in dangers) family who are interviewed on Nolan not the professional carer (ie the Mrs. P of this case) and not a mention of entrapment.
In fact it would seem that everyone agrees that the carer acting in a way to harm the client is the crime and that filming was appropriate, not the person exposing the crime. Are Patrick Strudwick and Mrs. P not entitled to the same apportioning of guilt.
Ugandan Gay Rights Activist Murdered, US Evangelicals & Exodus (Ex-gay promoters) Must Take Responsibility
“David’s death is a result of the hatred planted in Uganda by U.S. evangelicals in 2009,” Val Kalende, the chairwoman of one of Uganda’s gay rights groups, said in a statement. “The Ugandan government and the so-called U.S. evangelicals must take responsibility for David’s blood!”
In a statement today, Political Research Associates condemned the murder and demanded an end to “the export of homophobia to Uganda by American conservatives.”
“Kato’s murder is a heavy blow to the international human rights community,” said Rev. Kapya Kaoma, the director of PRA’s Project on Religion and Sexuality. “Those U.S conservatives who have lit the brushfire of homophobia in Africa have to bear some responsibility for this tragic death and for the conflagration that now threatens to consume all gay Ugandans.”
Those U.S. evangelicals include Scott Lively, the former head of the California affiliate of the American Family Association. He and two others, including Don Schmierer, a board member of Exodus International, have led conferences and workshops about the evils of homosexuality in Uganda. A direct result of all this anti-gay evangelical rhetoric was the Anti-Homosexuality Bill introduced into the Ugandan legislature in 2009 which would prescribe the death penalty for gays and lesbians, though it has yet to be made into law.
Hopefully, Kato’s death will serve as a wake-up call to conservative evangelicals in the U.S. who have attempted to wash their hands of the matter. Today, a gay activist is dead in a country where gays and lesbians are actively persecuted, where the law may soon allow them to be legally executed, and it’s a hatred they have fueled. No matter how much they may want to distance themselves, there’s no escaping responsibility for this tragedy.
“The blood of David is on the hands of American preachers who came to Uganda,” said Frank Mugisha, the executive director of SMUG. “They share much of the blame for presenting us as less than human.”