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Updated: Tory gay group attacks MEP for gay therapy Tweet

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  1. He does have a point.

  2. D I C K H E A D

  3. Jock S. Trap 17 Jan 2011, 2:09pm

    Isn’t it shameful that these clearly under educated people are trying to get to the highest in power by spew such venom.

    I’m pleased to see LGBTory’s are quick to respond to this, however after saying this has no place in this government lets see some action.

  4. Yes LGBTory, lets see some action or are you unfit for purpose?

    This is not the first time Roger Helmer has been Homophobic and he still has his job!
    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?s=Roger+Helmer

    Same old Tories!

  5. Let us remind ourlselves that in the European Parliament, the Tory Party are allied to the extreme-right Law and Justice Party.

    the fact that Roger Helmer is an extremist bigot.

    What will Cameron do I wonder?

    Roger Helmer is a man who really should belong in the BNP.

    If he remains unpunished then Cameron is stating that homophobic extremism is to be accepted in the Tory Party.

    I want Helmer to be expelled from the Tory Party today.

    No other reaction is acceptable.

  6. If the Tory leadership do not take a stern line against that greasy bigot Roger Helmer, it proves beyond all reasonable doubt that they remain the Homophobic Party; and that the LGBTory group are nothing more than an irrelevant PR exercise whose sole function is to make us forget the sickening homophobia of the Tories.

    Helmer must be sacked. The BNP will welcome him.

  7. nasty, ill-informed bigot. I hope the Tories act quickly to show such bigotry and wilful ignorance isn’t tolerated.

  8. “He [my son] is heterosexual. He just has a homosexual problem.”

    The Ex-gay process still rears it’s ugly head:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8261705/The-therapist-who-claims-she-can-help-gay-men-go-straight.html

  9. He’s obessed and will be found balls deep in a rent boy

  10. So, where is CallmeDave in all this? Those are the types in the parties and in the House of Lords who will thwart any attempt to get civil marriage equality in our country.

  11. He does have a very good point though.
    And it would seem that sexuality is more fluid than some of the politics on this site.

  12. @iain,

    Exactly who’s sexuality is fluid. Are you suggesting that most heterosexuals sexuality floats over to gay on a regular basis or something. Maybe that is your experience? Have you found yourself lusting after Mr Helmer one day only to find that Anne Widdicombe gets your juices flowing the next.

    Or maybe you could provide the evidence and research for your pronouncement.

    Of course you could just be describing Bi-Sexuality which is perfectly normal too.

  13. Let’s be clear. The hate us ’cause they fear us.

  14. The Tories should reprimand Helmer for forgetting to put on his sheep’s clothing.

  15. “Comments like those of Roger Helmer are unhelpful, unrepresentative of the Conservative Party”

    Are they unrepresentative of the Tories?

    Theresa May; Iain Duncan Smith, William Hague, CallMeDave Cameron (and countless other Tories) have a sickeningly homophobiv voting record.

    And it is worth repeating over and over that the Tories in the Europarliament are in alliance with the extreme right, homophobic, anti-semitic Law and Justice Party.

    Has Roger Helmer’s been invited to join the BNP yet?

    That would seem like his obvious home considering how extreme-right his views are.

  16. Not him and his homopbobic friends but LGBT’s are a strident lobby group…really?, intolerant? militant…how so? LGBT’s must be the most peaceable minority group on the planet.

    So deeply homophobic (as shown above) and so in denial of his homophobia (as homophobes so often are) to the extent that he has created his own strictly limited definition of homophobia to pretend homophobia doesn’t really even exist.

    (“Mr Helmer has claimed before that the word ‘homophobia’ has “no meaning” and that he had “never met anyone with an irrational fear of homosexuals”.)

    Though homophobia is more than irrational fear and even if Mr Helmer has apparently never confronted himself in the mirror

    [“Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, and in some cases transgender and intersex people. Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and irrational fear”]

    I think we have a shameless homophobe in Mr Helmer…

    [“He laughed off suggestions that he should be disciplined, saying: “I take these things with a pinch of salt.”]

  17. Bill Perdue 17 Jan 2011, 7:35pm

    Oh! Heavens protect us!

    A bigoted Tory?

    Say it isn’t so!

  18. Awww… bless… when are the Tories gonna pay any attention to LGBTories? That’s not fair… is it?

  19. Homophobia was originally used to describe heterosexual men’s fear of being thought homosexual by other men. Initially it’s driven by a fear of one’s own homosexuality then projected onto others.

    Homophobia
    as a medical phobia about homosexuals…is a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion ( you might catch homosexuality like the flu), a fear of reducing the things one fought for — home and family. It is a religious fear and it had led to great brutality as fear always does.

  20. “Why is it OK for a surgeon to perform a sex-change operation, but not OK for a psychiatrist to try to ‘turn’ a consenting homosexual?”

    Matthew Sephton, will you please make sure you pass the following answer to Roger Helmer.

    When a surgeon performs a sex-change operation he is aligning the physical state of a person with that person’s true sexual orientation. In other words, if a person’s true sexual orientation is that of a female but the person has the body of a male, then the surgeon is correcting the bodily attributes of the person so that they are in alignment and congruency with the person’s true psychological nature.

    However, it is impossible for a psychologist to convert the sexual orientation of an individual, from homosexual to heterosexual or from heterosexual or homosexual. In fact, it is abusive to try and do so. In line with the guidelines of numerous national and international psychological associations, a professional psychologist should instead assist a gay man or a lesbian woman to accept their sexual orientation. Numerous studies have proved that attempts to convert homosexual people to heterosexuality by either psychological techniques or by religious techniques are ineffective. They fail. Sexual orientation is part and parcel of the human psychology.

    This answer should suffice.

    Please share it with all Conservative Party members who may feel that Roger Helmer “has a point”, as the first poster here has stated.

  21. Maybe Helmer’s a Christian? Does anybody know? If so, then perhaps we should respect his point of view, like Peter Tatchell says? Like Peter says, unless he’s actually incited hatred or suggested violence he’s totally entitled to his beliefs?

  22. well for what its worth I have email no10 via its web site asking this guy to be expelled from the tory party.

  23. Maybe Helmer’s a faux Christian? Does anybody know?

    I think it is hateful of Helmer to suggest that there’s nothing wrong in violating a vulnerable gay person who is seeking help by subjecting them to potentially damaging quack therapies to “cure them of the gay”.

    Whatsmore Helmer admits himself that has no expertise or special knowledge of psychotherapy… so his opinion has nothing of value to add to the issue other than that he is obviously a spokesman for the anti-gay industry (whether or not a self-apointed one).

  24. Carl,

    I realise you mean well, but in reality you are muddying the waters even more. Most gender reassignment operations are carried out to align the physical attributes of the person with their gender Identity. It has nothing really to do with their sexual orientation. Trans people can be LGB or straight just like the rest of us. Their orientation is from the perspective of their identity not from their physical gender either pre or post op.

    This is why it is fundamentally different, gender reassignment and ex-gay therapies are addressing two very different things (gender identity and sexual orientation respectively) neither of which can be changed by psychological means.

    It is precisely because it is recognised that gender Identity cannot be changed that gender reassignment surgery is accepted as the only solution and also why it is recognised that therapy cannot change orientation.

    If Mr Helmer actually looked at it, the fact that gender reassignment is carried out at all actually reaffirms the point that innate characteristics such as these cannot be altered by therapy and so supports the rejection of ex-gay therapies rather than supports them.

    But I will not hold my breath.

  25. Dr Robin Guthrie 17 Jan 2011, 10:12pm

    I agree Dave G.

    I worked with a colleague undergoing all the surgery stuff.

    A bald fat male to begin with but a fat butterfly emerged after the process.

    I foolishly thought that being a gay man held credence with this person only to learn that she did not give a blind “F” what anyone thought.

    The friendship that did exist was swiftly binned via the surgeons knife.

    In pursuance of this aim, all was cast asunder.

    In fairness, the NHS was not involved and all was paid for privately however. Every relationship was discarded in abeyance to this pursuit and
    she even outed me in my place of work.

    Not that it is an issue, but do not think for an instant that these
    “re-assignments” are done with no casualties involved.

    Bear in mind, I am coming from the perspective of well paid poofs and trans..

  26. Carl has provided an excellent answer to Roger Helmers question in his post above.
    Lets hope Roger Helmer, the media and everyone else gets to read it.

  27. I wonder if Peter Tatchell will come to his defence . . . surely he has a right to express his homophobic views

    Think not!

  28. “never met anyone with an irrational fear of homosexuals”

    Um, isn’t homophobia the fear that folks might consider homosexuals equal to heterosexuals ?

  29. Robin,

    There is no accounting for human nature. Unfortunately being in a minority does not mean that when you get equality or into the majority you show the respect, compassion and human dignity to those in other minorities (see the declaration to-day by the black christian group from Illinois saying Martin Luther King would not support gay rights). The I am all right Jack gene is strong.

    I have to say though I only know a few male to female transsexuals (in varying stages of re-assignment) and have no problems with any of them.

    Maybe some people are just gits whatever they have between their legs or ears.

  30. ironically ex-gay psyche work has a lot more in common with psyche work done to try and stop people being trans. and its about as cruel and effective.

  31. Dr Robin Guthrie’s experience of a so called trans person is similer to what I found. I don’t get why anyone would be so concerned about being a particular gender any more than their eye or hair color. What about a black person that insists they are really white on the inside? Obviously give them a whole body skin graft! Remember Micheal Jackson’s nose! Micheal was born with the ‘wrong shaped’ nose and look what happened to that!

  32. Xaria,

    I agree, the types of treatments are similar and just as cruel and ineffective.

    My point was that, although they are attempting to treat different intractable innate qualities, it is the fact that surgery is the vastly predominant option which the medical profession supports proves that the psychological route has failed for trans.

    That is why this fact supports the rejection of the psychological route for orientation

    What Helmer, if he actually understood what he was talking about should have said is

    ““Why is it OK for psychiatrist to try to ‘turn’ a consenting homosexual when we cannot turn a transgenger person and have to resort to surgery to realign their physical form.?”.

    It’s still not very elegant but you get my drift.

  33. John UK

    “I wonder if Peter Tatchell will come to his defence . . . surely he has a right to express his homophobic views

    Think not!”

    Think so! He has not incited violence, abuse, harrassment or anything else. It’s just an opinion, as ill-informed as it is. That’s his right under the laws of freedom of speech.

    In return, it is our right to condemn him, to call for a justification of his opinion, to pressure him into an apology and to generally make life hard for him. He’s a bigot, we all know that and he will get his comeuppance eventually, but it is up to us to make sure of that. 20 years ago his comments might have been taken seriously by some, but he is now viewed as nothing more than an old-fashioned fuddy-duddy. Why do you think he isn’t a national MP? Even Cameron wouldn’t have the stupidity to let him stand over here. Keep him out there where he can’t do much damage – only Pink News has really picked up on this, the dailies couldn’t give a toss.

    And ultimately all the danger he poses to us is that he can spout some spiteful words. Freedom of speech means that WE as a proactive lobby group are kept on our toes to stamp out bigotry. If people like him are silenced for just giving an opinion, we won’t be half as alert as we are now.

    Give the man enough rope and you’ll see.

  34. Dave G, OK the phrase “gender identity” is a more accurate one to use. So please will you email the following to all Tory members whom you know. And I hope Matthew Sephton will do likewise, if he hasn’t already.

    When a surgeon performs a sex-change operation he is aligning the physical state of a person with that person’s true and innate gender-identity. In other words, if a person’s gender-identity is that of a female but the person has the body of a male, then the surgeon is correcting the bodily attributes of the person so that they are in alignment and congruency with the person’s true psychological nature.

    However, it is impossible for a psychologist to convert the sexual orientation of an individual, from homosexual to heterosexual or from heterosexual or homosexual. In fact, it is abusive to try and do so. In line with the guidelines of numerous national and international psychological associations, a professional psychologist should instead assist a gay man or a lesbian woman to accept their sexual orientation. Numerous studies have proved that attempts to convert homosexual people to heterosexuality by either psychological techniques or by religious techniques are ineffective. They fail. Sexual orientation is part and parcel of the human psychology.

  35. Dan Filson 18 Jan 2011, 2:09pm

    “Why is it OK for a surgeon to perform a sex-change operation, but not OK for a psychiatrist to try to ‘turn’ a consenting homosexual?”

    The law does not prevent either. But the former is achievable and the latter not.

  36. vulpus_rex 18 Jan 2011, 2:18pm

    Comparisons to trans issues are something of a red herring.

    However, any gay individual who for whatever reason is uncomfortable with their sexuality and seeks advice or treatment to adjust it as they see fit is perfectly entitled to do so.

    No fascist, right-on, lefty has the right to insist to anyone “you’re gay, like it or lump it”. Whoever any individual turns to, whether it be the church or medicine, if they wish to explore changing their sexuality then that is their prerogative.

    Some people would just rather not be gay, there’s nothing wrong with that and there’s nothing wrong with discussing it – get over it.

  37. “However, any gay individual who for whatever reason is uncomfortable with their sexuality and seeks advice or treatment to adjust it as they see fit is perfectly entitled to do so.”

    Stupid statement. All evidence, and studies (scientific ones anyway) point to this being able to “change” being utter nonsense. If the therapy is proven to be not only ineffective, but damaging to the well-being of the individual, is this something that should be on offer to everyone on the NHS? Lets be honest, this “therapy” is not for the benefit of the recipient, its for the benefit of validating the bigotry of the “therapist”. What is far more useful, and proven to be effective, is using the same resources and funds to help that person see past the prejudices of religious morons and begin to build some self respect.

  38. Vulpus Rex, yes, “if they wish to explore changing their sexuality then that is their prerogative”, but I hope you are also aware that they will be engaging in a fruitless waste of time?

    Furthermore, as Will rightly suggests above, should YOU not explore the psychological accounts of those who have engaged in fruitless attempts to alter their sexuality and acknowledge the dissonance such activity causes them and, often, their loves ones?

  39. vulpus_rex 19 Jan 2011, 4:51pm

    Yes but it, ie therapy, hasn’t been proven, by any measure, to be ineffective or effective.

    No-one understands the causes of human sexuality, they just have names for its various manifestations, so to assert that it can’t change, by intervention or otherwise is crap, – we simply don’t know.

    The benefit to the person giving the therapy is irrelevant as long as the recipient feels a benefit.

  40. I advised Mr Helmer that I was considering reporting him to Notts Police for hate Crimes and he wrote back saying that I could be arrested and jailed for 6 months for wasting police time.

    read his e-mail here
    http://www.debs-photography.co.uk/Blog/index.php/2011/01/19/my-mep-has-just-threatened-me-with-arrest/

  41. I’m totally confused by the Tories in the EU and I think they are themselves, they are so, so inconsistent…

    I wrote to this guy back in Jan 2009 asking him to sign a declaration put forward by the lib dem/greens to get mutual recognition of CP/marriages within the EU…He said he would and that was nice!!!

    Howevr, sometime this year , the head of Tories MEPs tried to nobble the same type of mutual declaration idea but failed.

    I later wrote my Tory MEP (Girling) asking her why , she repied they would raise the issue of non recognition and discrimination of LGBT people in EU with Commissioner…again that was nice but contradictory!!!

    What the hell is happenning with the Tories in the EU, sometime they are nice and other times they are downright horrible!!!!

  42. “we simply don’t know.”

    But we do know. You just keep saying we don’t. Sexuality is only changeable in the minds of religious idiots who insist in saying that to validate their prejudice.

    “The benefit to the person giving the therapy is irrelevant as long as the recipient feels a benefit.”

    Er, no. This therapist is not doing this for the benefit of the individual. They are doing it to validate their own belief. If the therapy is PROVED not to work, and in fact causes damage, then it is ridiculous to ascertain that this therapy is of any benefit to the individual.

    Let me cite reference for you, a bit of light reading:

    (1) A study by Shidlo and Schroeder called “Changing Sexual Orientation: A Consumer’s Report”, is a peer-reviewed study published in 2002, that 88% of participants failed to achieve a sustained change in their sexual behaviour and 3% reported changing their orientation to heterosexual. The remainder reported either losing all sexual drive or attempting to remain celibate, with no change in attraction. Of the 8 respondents (out of a sample of 202) who reported a change in sexual orientation, 7 worked as ex-gay counsellors or group leaders [Shidlo, Ariel; Schroeder, Michael (2002), “Changing Sexual Orientation: A Consumers’ Report”, Professional Psychology: Research and Practice]

    Hardly convincing. Sounds more like self delusion then any actual change. And that’s hardly healthy for the individual.

  43. Bravo Will! Someone to finally shut up that fool vulpus_rex and show him up for the unintelligent bigot he is! Thank you!

  44. vulpus_rex 20 Jan 2011, 1:15pm

    “But we do know. You just keep saying we don’t. Sexuality is only changeable in the minds of religious idiots who insist in saying that to validate their prejudice.”

    Rubbish – plenty of people acknowledge that sexuality can be changeable and fluid and I doubt they are all influenced by religion.

    Admittedly the question is whether it can be deliberately influenced and even your own report says it can be (unless the 3% quoted are all liars and either you take the report as it stands or not, but dismissing the findings that don’t suit you as self-deluded is hardly scientific).

    ““The benefit to the person giving the therapy is irrelevant as long as the recipient feels a benefit.”

    Er, no. This therapist is not doing this for the benefit of the individual. ”

    You have conflated two separate issues, the agenda (benefit) to the therapist might be as cynical as you like, but it doesn’t stop a benefit to the recipient being real. It doesn’t matter in that case whether the therapist is doing it for cash or satisfaction.

  45. “Rubbish – plenty of people acknowledge that sexuality can be changeable and fluid and I doubt they are all influenced by religion.”

    Er, no its not. Prove it.

    Or is this another of you usual pile of nonsense comments that we have become to love and cherish form you?

  46. Methinks, Vulpus Rex is projecting, i.e. he is bisexual, or he feels bisexual, hence his contention that sexuality is “fluid”. He’s projecting his bisexuality as a “fluidity” common to all. It’s not. Just ask half a dozen of your gay friends if they are “fluid” or bisexual, Vulpus. Only 1, maybe 2, will say they are bisexual.

    But you, of course, being godlike, may then claim that THEY don’t know the truth about themselves, I suppose.

  47. “Methinks, Vulpus Rex is projecting, i.e. he is bisexual, or he feels bisexual, hence his contention that sexuality is “fluid””

    And I would totally agree with you on that.

  48. I see we still have no proof from our sexually repressed vulpus_rex yet? What a surprise. I agree with Stuart, this cretin is clearly trying to convince himself that it’s an “option” by trying to convince US its an option.

    Without the facts to back him up, though, he’s just another sad little person with more issues then Hello Magazine.

  49. David Millar 23 Jan 2011, 3:24pm

    This man did more for gay rights in Lincolnshire than anyone – sparking an outrage that got us into the Echo, BBC Radio Lincolnshire, Look North & ITV Calendar.

    It also made him look rather stupid

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