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Christian therapist may be struck off for trying to turn gay man straight

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  1. The bible says that everyone was created in Gods image. The nut-jobs who give the rest of us Christians a bad name say that homosexuality was the work of Satan. Great counter to that: So you believe Satan is more powerful than God then?
    Take it from there and watch these idiots brains melt, gets ’em everytime. Silly sods

  2. “Ms Pilkington […] says she is helping her gay son turn straight”

    -most depressing sentence I’ve read today.

  3. Jock S. Trap 17 Jan 2011, 11:06am

    It’s easy to scream ‘entrapment’ I guess when you’ve been caught out.

    Fact is she knew what she was doing and she must have thought she was in the wrong otherwise surely she’d just admit it and not blame entrapment..

    She doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near people for any medical kind of help.

    Notice she is being supported by the Christian Legal Centre. I fully expect Peter Tatchell to be giving her his Full support.

    The fact that these people clearly feel above any law of the land is disgraceful. To get them to simply follow the law in place would be nice but with Peter Tatchell’s help I doubt they’ll need to.

    Deal is she’ll Never see the harm she is inflicting on people. And who is she to tell people they are wrong and can be corrected.

    Giving support to those who need it to be themselves is the only need for heathcare professionals not help getting so far back in the closet they may as well be in frackin Narnia.

    Remove her licence. End of!

  4. Brendan – you’re not the only one who’s worried for that son. Poor guy must have so many issues being raised by a woman like that.

    This woman needs to be prevented from inflicting this kind of psychological damage onto anybody else. The only “homosexuality problem” is the one people like her have.

    Perhaps the saddest thing is that this woman could have been a good mother, and even a good therapist – if it weren’t for religion.

    Once again, the poison behind this is the imaginary concept of “sin”, that a victimless deed can be wrong because of the arbitrary command of a character designed by intolerant men.

    The sooner we get religion out of its position of influence, the better this world will be.

  5. And she wonders why her gay son is unhappy as a gay man? He doesn’t need ex-gay therapy, he needs ex-fundie therapy.
    What Jock said… it’s not entrapment if you’re not doing something you know to be dodgy in the first place.
    She knew ex-gay therapy was discredited pseudoscience but proceeded to perscribe it anyway.
    If my surgeon or GP started talking about purging or exorcising out the demons with red hot pokers, they’d be stuck off too.

  6. Well said, flapjack. She should be struck off if she can’t abide by the BACP Code of Practice. I actually feel sorry for her. She clearly has issues herself. But most of all I feel sorry for her son.

    Interesting that the UNchristian Institute is involved. Yet another attempt by them to try to get opt-outs for Christians by portraying them as victimised.

  7. Some of these anti gay people really do come out with a load of bull. I’m trying not to take them seriously anymore. I was brought up to respect the opinions of others – but really – it’s such crap.

  8. Good. Some may see it as entrapment, but the investigation obviously took place based on reports of her conduct. It was just proving that there was a fire causing the smoke. On that basis, it is wholly justified.

    Moreover, she should be charged with child abuse.

  9. Jock S. Trap 17 Jan 2011, 12:11pm

    “Nobody is born gay.”

    How ignorant. How dull. What a hypocrite.

  10. She is a quack who peddles unscientific twaddle to rationalise her homophobia. These people always ‘care’ about us, even as they demonise and pathologise our feelings and relationships, which is highly destructive manipulation. Her poor son. It doesn’t bear thinking about.

  11. The Heretic Philosopher 17 Jan 2011, 12:31pm

    Yes, all of the above.

  12. Deeside Will 17 Jan 2011, 12:54pm

    It sounds as though she’s making her gay son’s life hideous by nagging him to “change”. Stupid woman, poisoning her family relationships and fvcking up both her son’s life and her own. But I’m afraid that’s what superstitious, fundamentalist beliefs do to people. The time will surely come when she’ll wish she hadn’t, and I hope it will come sooner rather than later, for everyone’s sake.

  13. Nobody is born gay. It is environmental; it is in the upbringing.

    Piffle. Did she learn that from the Bible as well? This stupid woman has no business being involved in any sort of therapy (except perhaps at the receiving end).

  14. “We say everybody is heterosexual but some people have a homosexual problem. Nobody is born gay. It is environmental; it is in the upbringing.”

    I was brought up in a very stable and secure family environment albeit by by parents who were culturally homophobic, I was never abused, but I am gay. So that blows Mrs. Pilkington’s theory right out of the water. Most of my life was lived around people who, like her, thought they knew me and what was good for me. Why DO these people try to interfere with our lives and assume they can “improve” them. My life is perfect, the only way it could be improved would be if all these silly people would stop being so stupid and leave us alone. She really should be banned.

  15. Aren’t you guys forgetting, that the ‘patient’ went to her and asked for help as he no longer wanted to be gay.

    She was doing her job, helping a person who apparently didn’t want to be gay any more. Little did she know that she was being set up.

    We all know that you can’t be born gay, there is NO evidence of this, so his request would have been taken at face value by the councillor.

  16. @LU – there’s evidence as many admit to being born gay plus there’s animals,

    I feel sorry for her son as he’s being lied to and worse by this bigoted loser

  17. I think therapist are dangerous anyway the one size fits all approach to mental health is almost like a cult

  18. @LU

    “We all know that you can’t be born gay, there is NO evidence of this, so his request would have been taken at face value by the councillor.”

    Please don’t speak for me, I certainly neither know nor believe what you are stating. The real fact is that no-one (with the possible exception of a deity if one exists) actually know the exact reason why peoples sexuality varies. The most agreed on position is that it is formed prenatally but whether there is a genetic component (as opposed to purely hormonal) or not is unclear. What you state is a pure fantasy dreamt up by people who cannot accept that the god they follow had anything to do with creating any sexuality other than their own.

    The lady in question’s response should not have been to just treat what she was asked to treat (if I go to a doctor and ask to have my leg chopped off should they do it), but instead (as her own professional bodies guidelines state) help the person come to terms and accept the fixed state and real nature of their sexuality. She would have know n that conversion therapy, biblically based or not, is useless at best and psychologically damaging at worst. What she did was abusive and inhuman and what she is doing to her son is the same.

  19. Some predictably lame comments from the relentless heterosexualist activist Andrea Minichiello Williams of the Christian Legal Centre (now gaining a reputation as The Faux Christian Martyr Production Company).

  20. “We all know that you can’t be born gay, there is NO evidence of this, so his request would have been taken at face value by the councillor.”

    Do we? Oh, sorry. I must have missed that survey, becuase I know I was born gay.

    Bless, LU, you seem like a nice idiot, but if 99.99% of gay people tell you they were born gay (which they do), the odds are in favour of that being the correct answer. Also, the general consensus of scientific data backs that up. As you provided no evidence yourself, one can only assume (1) you don’t know what you are talking about, (2) are a bigot, (3) an idiot, or (4) All of the above.

  21. Are you guys stupid why are you exchanging comments with an idiot like LU? DO you really think you can change someones mind with a few lines? The only way people like that change is when they respect a gay person until then forget it

  22. “DO you really think you can change someones mind with a few lines?”

    So, how else to you suggest we change someone’s mind on an internet forum if not with words? Ignoring them demeans us, and validates them. Stupidity and incorrect assertions should always be addressed, there are more people reading this than writing here, James.

  23. Jock S. Trap 17 Jan 2011, 3:01pm

    @ LU

    And what evidence do you have that people aren’t born Gay?

    I know for a fact I was. How is it people can be born heterosexual but not homosexual? That just smacks of ignorance.

    If it can’t be explained it can’t happen. A line, I wish, more religious people should use and stop being hypocritical.

    Another thing, I was brought up in a stable, very strict Christian background. I was never abused. Yet I’m Gay, proud of it and never been happier with those same Christian parents who are just as proud and support me 120% (It did take a while I admit).

    How can that be?

    It’s nonsense made up by uneducated idiots who just feel the need to justify their hate for all things they don’t want to know about and have no interest in learning about either.

    They can’t see that they are the evils of this world, so quick to condemn another human being.

    They are so hypocritical that they apparently run their lifes by the Bible/Koran etc that they can’t see what they are actually doing is questioning it. So, should you be questioning “Gods” creation? Mores to the point, Why are you separating people, dividing into whose acceptable and who isn’t. If “God” is the only one to judge, who are you to do “Gods” work? Why your just a mere human being just like us.

    Incredible that most Gay/Lesbians don’t judge others on who they are, don’t start wars or create famines etc yet are deemed the evil ones in society.


  24. Dave North 17 Jan 2011, 3:05pm

    Here we go again.

    “Ohhh.. I’m a poor lickle Christian victim”.

    When will these people get it.

    When you throw stones in condemnation of people sometimes those people just pick them up and throw them right back and bigots like her just don’t like that.

    And LU, I can assure you that my straighter than straight parents and straight upbringing had nothing to do with my being gay.

    I just am.

    So take you ill educated theories and shove em where nobody would dare to tread.

  25. Jock S. Trap 17 Jan 2011, 3:10pm

    I gues the real question is:-

    Where’s the proof that all are born Heterosexual?

  26. Lu, you’re more of a halfwit than I give you credit for. Of course people are born gay. I grew up in a loving, non-domineering mother or father who weren’t homophobic. I have two older siblings, both straight. As a child I was like any other and a typical boy. I was into sport and all the other “manly” things boys are exposed to. Nothing influenced my sexual orientation. I’ve known since I was 7 that I was gay. I had NO contact with gay people and nothing that would hav “evironmentally” affected my development. You know NOTHING about which you speak.

    One cannot pray away the gay no more than one can pray to be straight. Those are for the delusional and ill-informed, people like you for instance. Get a life. You and your ilk are proof positive that devolution exists.

  27. I would like to post a quick ad for my ex-idiot ministry. People aren’t BORN idiots and with my help and prayers we can rid them of the tragic mental illness of stupidity. Even the most ignorant of people can turn their lives around and become intelligent and worth talking to.
    Using just a Bible I turned my stupid child into someone you dont want to slap hard after they have uttered just two idiotic sentences. Now he can hold a decent conversation without launching into a diatribe about God and Leviticus 2.1 and has stopped obsessing about gay people.
    If you have a stupid family member or know a village idiot who wants to be an Ex-Idiot I offer an inexpensive way for them to get over of the trauma of being a bigot

  28. I see I have my first candidate for Ex-Idiot ministries. LU I will offer you a discounted rate to get treatment and will also offer you help in overcoming your belief that people choose homosexuality.
    As a special deal I’ll throw in a quick course in “Why I wont fall off the end of the world if I travel further than America” and “Television. You may not like all the programmes but honestly its not a magic box full of miniature people”

  29. Tom, can I train to teach your method? I am surrounded by idiots.

  30. “… I only work using a Christian biblical framework …”

    There is no such thing!!

  31. Of course I’d be happy to teach you Rose. You may also be intetrested in another training course I offer:
    “Leviticus 19:19 – Fun with fashion? Or a one way ticket to Hell?”

  32. “It is shocking that she was targeted, lied to and misrepresented by this homosexual activist and even worse that her professional body consider her actions worthy of investigation.”

    @Lu I actually see your point of view. It is about dishonest behaviour that I am concerned with.

    There is a paralle to a straight person going to a Gay counsellor and saying they are gay and need help with that.

    Having got the help they then go off and say that this counsellor has tried to pervert or convert them.

    The debate about the treatment is secondary to the dishonesty. If I went to a Christion counsellor for a check up about my doubts I would expect an attempt to discuss all the techniques – including the dodgy ones, as when one is in desperation one wants all the help and information one wants.

    If the treatment Lesley Pilkington gave was illegal then so be it. She will get blacklisted for that.

  33. :D @ Tom!

  34. These religious people think God is in direct contact with them and a test from God to test their resolve to dark “unspeakable” forces has been placed upon them.

    They are never going to quit and therefore they are ripe for entrapment!

    More people should do what this undercover journalist has done!

  35. Dominick J. 17 Jan 2011, 5:47pm

    Entrapment? Poppycock!! Anyone could have reported her.

    AND yes Rachy-Roo everyone was created and still is created in Gods image, if you adhere to the Bible instead of Science, Becuase God being She/He is a spirit we have Men and Women heterosexuals, Bisexuals and Lesbians and Gays, known as Homosexuals, AND I may add that’s how some mistakes are made hence the need for Transexuals!

  36. All I can say is if we were all created in God’s image God must’ve had more facelifts than Cher, Jackie Stallone and Pete Burns put together ;)

  37. I’m glad you agree Dominick :D

  38. Is the ducking-stool still in use..?

  39. LU: If a black person went to a doctor and asked if he could be made white because “He no longer wanted to be black”, what do you think the doctor’s response would be?”

    I hardly think he would reach for the bleach and a scrubbing brush.
    We are what we are, and nothing will change that. I suspect a lot of these so-called ‘success stories’ are with people that are bisexual, borderline gay that cannot really decide which way to go, so the psychiatrist does it for them. Many people may be unhappy with their sexuality, but have least got to the stage where they have come to terms with their situation, and learn to accommodate it.

    These ‘professionals’ only exacerbate an already difficult problem and can actually make matters much worse.

  40. Dan Abbott 17 Jan 2011, 6:58pm

    “Nobody is born gay. It is environmental; it is in the upbringing”

    Yes I chose a life of stigmatisation, or prejudice and on occasion of receiving violence. Yes I chose to have names shouted at me or to be careful of the pronouns I use in public. Yes I chose to sleep with someone of the same sex knowing that I wouldn’t get the same rights as a heterosexual couple.

    Something my heterosexual brother pointed out to me this week. When these half crazed morons waving the bible in one hand and a “god hates fags” poster in the other start spouting their claptrap; politely remind them that Jesus had two fathers and turned out ok.. :-D

  41. “We say everybody is heterosexual but some people have a homosexual problem. Nobody is born gay. It is environmental; it is in the upbringing.”

    This statement is unbelievably crap it is hard to know where to start. What proof is there that homosexuality is environmental and due to upbringing. None whatsover.

    I personally believe everyone is born bisexual – so everyone is a little bit gay. Most people are predominantly straight, but some aren’t.

    It is homophobia and internal homophobia that ARE the problematic lifestyle choices.

  42. // In July, the annual meeting of the British Medical Association declared that therapies to ‘cure’ gay people of homosexuality are harmful. //

    …so what more needs to be said??

  43. Pastor Patty de Cake 17 Jan 2011, 8:18pm

    The God of my bible clearly states that all those of lowly intelligence should be soylent green.

    It is clearly stated in yada chapter 2:1 made clear by a picture of mushroom in a cave that marriage should only be undertaken by shrubs, shellfish and pedophiles.

    Lo: My great God has decided.
    It is so written.

    Unfortunately desert dwelling peasants 300 years after the alleged fact have decided that it should be so. etc.etc. and wrote a book that said so.

    Unfortunately, the priests and kings over 2 millennial have edited it to bits, but there you go.

    My lord is now a true lord, worthy of at least 2 billion quid per religious faction.

    Didn’t He do well…….

  44. Dr Robin Guthrie 17 Jan 2011, 8:27pm

    “// In July, the annual meeting of the British Medical Association declared that therapies to ‘cure’ gay people of homosexuality are harmful. //

    …so what more needs to be said??
    jonpol ”

    1 Christian homophobic Judge to set legal precedent is all it takes.

  45. Nobody is born gay? Her son was born gay! Silly as silly can be.

  46. Dr Robin Guthrie wrote

    “1 Christian homophobic Judge to set legal precedent is all it takes.”

    . . . . . . . . . .

    Robin, presumably this happen soon, because it will be encouraged or supported by Peter Tatchell; as in the example below!!!

  47. It’s being reported that Ms Pilkington uses a version of the reparative therapy, SOCE, used by NARTH et al. Nice. Part of it involves going on bonding weekends doing ‘masculine things’ (yeah because of course, all gay men are effeminate *rolls eyes*) I couldn’t help thinking of that bit in Borat. Idiots.

    Ms Pilkington can believe what she wants but she shouldn’t be allowed to use such mumbo jumbo on people.

  48. Dr Robin Guthrie 17 Jan 2011, 9:28pm


    I am well aware of it and Tatchells nonsense.

    As far as I am concerned. He is no longer a friend of Gay people.

    The second he warbled about “QUEER” many moons ago I no longer liked the man.

  49. Dr Robin Guthrie 17 Jan 2011, 9:52pm

    I was born the way my mother bore me in 1965.

    I never endured the agony she went through in giving me my birth and never will.

    I had my childhood all protected by both my heterosexual mother and heterosexual father and elder sister.

    Both myself at 5 and elder sister at 7 were upset when a new baby came along to steal our parental attention.

    Turned out the new kid on the block was mentally handicapped.

    A word or concept neither I or my elder sister new about or could understand.

    That was in 1971 and to this date my parents understood what “NOT NORMAL” meant and means.

    When I read the bull that these EVIL so called religious types espouse I get very angry.

    My parents are now in their 70’s still caring for my sister and still loving all of their children.

    This Pilkington woman never deserved having children.

    She is clearly incapable of love, other than her good book.

    It;s sad really.

    She should be pitied if it were not for her illogical biblical hate.

    As far as I am concerned, this woman and all she stands for belittles my parents and all they have lived, fought for and stand for.

    I feel so sorry for her Son.

    I could not imagine such an experience with such a Mother.

    One dark night, it might just hit her
    that her God may be with her in mind, but her family is no where to be seen.

  50. Where will this all end? The religious being expected to abide by the laws that help protect them? The poor darlings having to perform the tasks they accecpt wages for? Next thing, they will have to tolerate their very own representatives in the unelected Second House. Outbloodyrageou.

  51. Oh my goodness.. if you met a right wing nut and he/she said hitler didn’t go far enough.. yo’d worry right?.. so when a gay rights campaigner (not saying the two are the same, it’s an analogy, they don’t have to be) says Peter Tatchell is too soft and letting them down, I think I would worry that they were a complete extremist nutcase.. no offense. Peter Tatchell is one of your most extremist voices, the fact that he has a brain and occasioanlly thinks about things.. perhaps sees that you’re looking foolish by being so intolerant of those who oppose your agenda and creating resentment out in the real world, perhaps just beacuse he thinks some things have gone far enough, only serves to make him seem better than most poeple thought of him.

    Secondly.. if this dodgy undercover reporter ASKED to be relieved of their homosexuality then why shouldnt the counseller seek to help them in that regard?? She wasn’t forcing it on him, just doing what he asked!

  52. this is two faced through and through. It shows clearly how some groups are attempting to push through an anti-bible or anti-monotheistic religion agenda,. It is anti-bible, just as much as eating pigs and prawns. That said, when the Christian Church finally decides what it stands for people might actually take it seriously.

    As to whether it is a disease or not, the UN International Classification of Diseases believed it to be so until not too many years ago, being only removed in 1992. (The ICD is the standard textbook of medical definitions used in the UK)

  53. “It shows clearly how some groups are attempting to push through an anti-bible or anti-monotheistic religion agenda”

    Not quite sure what you’re getting at here…. who exactly is “anti-bible”?

    “As to whether it is a disease or not, the UN International Classification of Diseases believed it to be so until not too many years ago, being only removed in 1992”

    This is an irrelevant statement. This is the equivalent of saying: witchcraft was believed to be so until not too many years ago, being only removed in 1951 (which is the year the Act was repealed in the UK)

    That does not mean witchcraft was ever real. It means, thankfully, we have progressed beyond such religious-based superstitions and prejudices, as with branding homosexuality a “sickness”

    You however, need a lesson in history, Steve.

  54. She is working on turning her son straight.Makes me think of mary griffith and her son bobby griffith – who eventually killind himself.

    I do have a question about this whole entrapment that they are trying to put forward. WTF?

    Undercover police officers, is that entrapment?

  55. john abbott 20 Jan 2011, 12:48am

    In America we have many such bigoted people who claim to be Christian and wrap their bigotry and hatred in the trappings of a religious expression of some sort. Bigotry and hatred are not family values and I don’t think that they are Christian values either. They are the values of hypocrites and evil people.

  56. To make it clear, mainstream Islam does not preach random violence against homosexual people, nor hate of any other human being, but does regard the homosexual act itself as being against God’s natural laws, and therefore against the interests of human beings and human society. Islam is a merciful, and extremely tolerant religion, but Muslims believe (like believing Jews and Christians and many others) that the homosexual tendency is not a good, normal or natural feeling, and needs treatment as a psychological, and emotional illness, or a biological abnormality, as it would be seen amongst animals, for the true long term happiness of all affected. The consequence, in this world, of not finding solutions to cure homosexuality in this way, is the spread of confusion about sexuality, and the break down of the normal family structure, as well as in the normal upbringing of children, e.g. to have normal relationships. This would lead to other psychological and emotional problems, contributing to a breakdown in society, and possible rises in crime, all of which will cause far greater misery and suffering in the long term. Of course Muslims also strongly believe that consequences for the soul after death are a reality, which can be far worse, and therefore believe in guiding and helping people to avoid all of this.

    Only in an Islamic state, where people are fully educated about their human nature, feelings, and other Islamic knowledge, including the Islamic laws, as well as where people would have ample opportunity and help to have successful heterosexual marriages, as well as affectionate platonic friendships, would homosexual acts be prosecutable at all, and only a minority of cases would they be punishable, as the act itself has to have at least 4 witnesses, as evidence!! It is only the public shameless act and promotion of homosexuality that is seen as dangerous enough to prosecute, with severe physical punishment as a last resort, particularly in cases where there is no repentance. This is needed as an effective deterrent, and a clear message that homosexuality needs to be challenged, not accepted as normal, and not allowed full freedom to spread.

    The word Islam itself means the ‘way of peace’, and it is only ignorant people, or even ignorant governments who do not put Islam into practise correctly, who may commit injustices, or go to extremes. The solution is more and better education from mainstream, highly knowledgeable scholars of Islam, not less!!

  57. “but does regard the homosexual act itself as being against God’s natural laws”

    There is no such thing as “god’s natural laws”. If something exists, by definition, its is natural. Your statement is quite frankly unintelligent and very lacking in reason.

    “It is only the public shameless act and promotion of homosexuality that is seen as dangerous enough to prosecute”

    There is nothing shameless about homosexuality, only ignorant religious views about it.

    “particularly in cases where there is no repentance”

    Repentance? From what? You mean repent what we are because some moron who thinks god is telling his what to do says so, and a “prophet” who would be considered a paedophile in our civilized times? Don’t be ridiculous.

    “The word Islam itself means the ‘way of peace’”

    Well, it certainly does not mean intelligence or wisdom if you post is anything to go by. You should be ashamed of yourself posting that tripe.

  58. Dr Robin Guthrie 20 Jan 2011, 11:58am

    “Secondly.. if this dodgy undercover reporter ASKED to be relieved of their homosexuality then why shouldnt the counseller seek to help them in that regard??”

    – James

    She shoud’nt because it is against the teachings and ethics of her own profession.

    If I went to my GP with heart failure and asked him to pray to fix it, he would be in breach of his professional standards if he did indeed pray and not treat the condition as proposed by his own medical standards council.

    In other words. She is performing her job unethically and unprofessionally.

    That is why we have professional standards.

  59. dave wainwright 20 Jan 2011, 11:29pm

    , and now the latest news ; having lost in the cornish christian guest house trial the christian legal centre are days later pulling this one out of the hat ;

  60. johnny33308 21 Jan 2011, 5:02am

    Lu, you obviously do not know anything about gay people. Do you remember the day you sat down and reviewed all of the possible sexual orientations available and then “choosing” heterosexuality? No? Why not? If it was a choice for us, then logically, it also had to be a ‘choice’ for you. If it was NOT a choice for you, then it was certainly not a choice for any gay people either. What you said is a lie promoted by bigoted ignorant people. You do not want to be one of those, do you? Gays do not attack straight people-straight people attack gays. They should mind their own damn business-and leave us alone. Oddly, our sex lives apparently fascinate the christians no end-they spend more time thinking of gay sex than we do! We spend no time thinking of straight sex, believe me. I don’t care about others’ sex lives, why do straights care about mine? Is their interest legitimate? Hardly!

  61. johnny33308 21 Jan 2011, 5:51am

    People, not all of us want to be Muslims, or Christians-the idea that either could be forced upon us is repugnant. No conversion is legitimate with a threat of violence for non compliance. Perhaps Islam is a religion of peace, where is the proof of this? There is much proof to the contrary, sadly. My sex life is NO ONE’S business so keep your nose out of it. Religion is sadly an ancient superstition that has always caused great suffering and death, and it still does. It should be eliminated from human culture-if it is not, humanity will become extinct. There is only one rule-treat others the way you yourself wish to be treated. We don’t need a religion in order to be kind to one another-we need only love. Religion is a form of brainwashing-it appears to have worked quite well on several ‘contributors’ in this forum, sadly. Religion is for those who do not wish to make their own judgments about life-someone else does that for them. I am responsible for myself, not some imaginary diety. BTW, if heterosexuals are ‘born’ that way, so are gay people born the way we are. Use some logic people-oh, thats right, there is no logic in religion at all-just dogma. Believe or die. A secular society is the only reasonable kind of society for civilized, intelligent beings. Religion seems to be exclusively for weak minded people of limited intelligence, really. Some of us can be kind and loving without being ordered to do so by some unethical man who says he speaks with God. They used to lock those sorts away-wish they still did. Most of us do not need a book to tell us the ‘right’ things to do.

  62. Unfortunately . . . this is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

    I wish Patrick had chosen to expose homophobia and notions of reparative therapy still alive in NHS psychotherapy, and the covert attitudes which are still trying to keep NARTH philosophy alive.

    Do not forget, NARTH was invited to the UK in 1996 to speak to the NHS Tavistock clinic.

    Despite the protest and debate at the time . . .

    Reparative therapy attitudes still exist in the NHS, in a covert form; and we are still funding these through paying taxes – perversely

  63. @ umnnooor – “The word Islam itself means the ‘way of peace’”

    no it doesn’t it means “SUBMISSION to god”. You know, like in sadomasochism, master and slave, submit to your master, be a slave.

    however, in my books the word islam could be translated as “if you believe this cr4p you are probably retarded and need therapy.”

  64. The Heretic Philosopher 23 Jan 2011, 2:00am

    Ummnoor…What makes you think that your religion and spirituality are better than or superior to the one I already have? My religion/ spirituality does not seek to impose itself and dominate other people through fear & intimidation and the imposition of shame and guilt around what makes people human. I find the things you say about my sexuality and my relationship with my partner offensive, insidious, vindictive, totally without foundation, inaccurate. I am part of a family and I make a valuable and worthwhile contribution to it and to my community and the world. How dare you accuse me of being the cause of criminal activity and the breakdown of society. On what grounds do you make such a scurrilous accusation against me and other gay men and women who are nurses, doctors, teachers, scientists, philosophers, social workers, parents and such.

  65. “Nobody is born gay. It is environmental; it is in the upbringing.”

    So… her son turned out gay after being brought up in an anti-gay household, how?

  66. The Heretic Philosopher 23 Jan 2011, 8:05pm

    Domineering mother, absent father – probably left for a bit of peace & quiet. LOL

  67. Counsellor Dawn 25 Jan 2011, 10:16pm

    sadly there will always be a few practitioners around who abuse their position. I hope the man involved was not too traumatised by this lady :(

  68. Ugandan Gay Rights Activist Murdered, US Evangelicals& Exodua (ex-gay promoters) Must Take Responsibility

    “David’s death is a result of the hatred planted in Uganda by U.S. evangelicals in 2009,” Val Kalende, the chairwoman of one of Uganda’s gay rights groups, said in a statement. “The Ugandan government and the so-called U.S. evangelicals must take responsibility for David’s blood!”

    In a statement today, Political Research Associates condemned the murder and demanded an end to “the export of homophobia to Uganda by American conservatives.”

    “Kato’s murder is a heavy blow to the international human rights community,” said Rev. Kapya Kaoma, the director of PRA’s Project on Religion and Sexuality. “Those U.S conservatives who have lit the brushfire of homophobia in Africa have to bear some responsibility for this tragic death and for the conflagration that now threatens to consume all gay Ugandans.”

    Those U.S. evangelicals include Scott Lively, the former head of the California affiliate of the American Family Association. He and two others, including Don Schmierer, a board member of Exodus International, have led conferences and workshops about the evils of homosexuality in Uganda. A direct result of all this anti-gay evangelical rhetoric was the Anti-Homosexuality Bill introduced into the Ugandan legislature in 2009 which would prescribe the death penalty for gays and lesbians, though it has yet to be made into law.

    Hopefully, Kato’s death will serve as a wake-up call to conservative evangelicals in the U.S. who have attempted to wash their hands of the matter. Today, a gay activist is dead in a country where gays and lesbians are actively persecuted, where the law may soon allow them to be legally executed, and it’s a hatred they have fueled. No matter how much they may want to distance themselves, there’s no escaping responsibility for this tragedy.

    “The blood of David is on the hands of American preachers who came to Uganda,” said Frank Mugisha, the executive director of SMUG. “They share much of the blame for presenting us as less than human.”,_us_evangelicals_must_take_responsibility_/

  69. Correction, Exodus noit Exodua, (ex-gay scammers)

  70. i disagree with the environment thing, there are 5 siblings in my family im 3rd oldest and the first 4 are boys all brought up in the same house with the same inflences and im the only one to turn out gay so i highly doubt it.

  71. Yes John, both my older brother and my younger brother are straight, we were all 3 boys brought up by the same parents in very similar circumstances so environment and upbringing as an alleged “cause” of homosexuality doesn’t seem to bear out, I think the genetic makeup of a person combined with hormonal conditions in the womb are more likely what shape all of us gay or straight, there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.
    Homophobia on the other hand is a learned position, totally a result of upbringing and environment, homophobia is a mental illness and it is curable, however many homophobes are in complete denial of their state.

  72. “Uganda needs a lesson in gay rights
    (Kill The Gays Bill)
    Although some American evangelicals who have visited Uganda and preached that gays can become straight have disavowed the shameful bill, their work certainly hasn’t helped dispel anti-gay fervor in the country.

    Read full article here:,0,5411735.story?track=rss

    Lesley Pilkington is continuing the legacy of the preachers who have helped create holocaust conditions for gays in Uganda.

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