This hasn’t got a chance of getting through the new (next term) republican controlled congress. The entire push to get gays to serve openly in the service is being staged by democrats just to appease the large gay following that voted democratic in the last presidential election. It’s the “Well, we tried” show while congress is between old and new guard congressmen and senators.
Better news is that the discharging of gays has recently been made more difficult due to new rules recently set in place.
Seriously, guys, you could have just asked England (and saved a whole lot of time and money)…
What gets me is as it stands all those military homophobes are happy to serve (and presumably shower) alongside people who aren’t honest about their sexuality.
If they’re really that paranoid about who’s getting aroused by staring at them in the communal showers you’d think they’d be in favour of a lifting of DADT!
Or is it a case of “Out of sight out of mind?”
How the hell do they cope in a civilian gym?
The idea of segregated living quarters for gay personnel is as ridiculous as it is insulting, but remember 60 years ago exactly the same proposals were put forward in the USA when, horror of horrors, proposals for mixing the races in the same regiments was going through.
The thought of a black soldier/sailor/airman sharing the same living quarters, showers or mess-rooms as white personnel shocked many in the US military and civilian society in just the same way in the 1950s. This mentality baffles many Europeans and makes our American cousins look unsophisticated – the Amercian mind-set progresses very very slowly.
This report is a big step forward, now lets see if it is implemented.
This stupid law should never have been made in the first place. It was just another case of Republican homophobs bullying Democrats. Clinton tried to have gays serve openly in 1993. Gays have always been in the service but republicans didn’t want to admit it was true. Just sticking their heads in the sand. I knew of a few gaywhen I was in the service. That included me. there again making people lie about who they are. But in the 1960′s you had to stay hidden even as a civilian.
Bright, these US military chaps, aren’t they!
I’ve skimmed over the report, and it’s all pretty sensible. They did look at the U.K.’s experience:
“Our conclusions are also informed by the experiences of our foreign allies. To be sure, there is no perfect comparator to the U.S. military, and the cultures and attitudes toward homosexuality vary greatly among nations of the world. However, in recent times a number of other countries have transitioned to policies that permit open military service by gay men and lesbians. These include the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, Germany, Italy, and Israel. Significantly, prior to change, surveys of the militaries in Canada and the U.K. indicated much higher levels of resistance than our own survey results — as high as 65% for some areas — but the actual implementation of change in those countries went much more smoothly than expected, with little or no disruption.”
They also shot down having separate facilities as an absurd and offensive idea:
“And, even if it could be achieved and administered, separate facilities would, in our view, stigmatize gay and lesbian Service members in a manner reminiscent of “separate but equal” facilities for blacks prior to the 1960s.”
“Most concerns we heard about showers and bathrooms were based on stereotype — that gay men and lesbians will behave as predators in these situations, or that permitting homosexual and heterosexual people of the same sex to shower together is tantamount to allowing men and women to shower together. However, common sense tells us that a situation in which people of different anatomy shower together is different from a situation in which people of the same anatomy but different sexual orientations shower together. The former is uncommon and unacceptable to almost everyone in this country; the latter is a situation most in the military have already experienced. Indeed, the survey results indicate 50% of Service members recognize they have already had the experience of sharing bathroom facilities with someone they believed to be gay. This is also a situation resembling what now exists in hundreds of thousands of college dorms, college and high school gyms, professional sports locker rooms, police and fire stations, and athletic clubs around the nation. And, as one gay former Service member told us, to fit in, co-exist, and conform to social norms, gay men have learned to avoid making heterosexuals feel uncomfortable or threatened in these situations.”
It’s just common sense, but it’s fairly remarkable to see such a thorough takedown of the old shower canard coming from the military itself.
One thing I didn’t know until Gates mentioned it in his briefing yesterday was that as DCI he was the one responsible for opening the CIA to openly gay men and women almost twenty years ago.
It has been said, that integrating openly GAY soldiers into the Armed Forces would be very costly, would be very disruptive, and would be met by unyielding anger and hatred from enlisted soldiers and officers, alike. This is very interesting to me, because these same, sorry excuses have been used before. In 1948, President Harry Truman signed into law, Executive Order No. 9981, which ordered the military to start the “racial integration” of Afro-American soldiers (correction, they were called Negro soldiers back then) into all military branches of the Armed Forces. Those who were against the integration of Negro soldiers were appalled, disgusted, and angry, that white soldiers and officers, would have to share quarters with them, shower with them, enter into combat side-by-side with them, and oh yes, heaven forbid, they would have to treat them like—let say…human beings. Yes, my friends, the biggest, most hated, and most costly “Military Integrated Transition” happened more than 60 years ago. Now you tell me…was it worth it?
“A Pentagon report says that the ban on out gay troops in the US military can be lifted”
…but just to be on the safe side I think we had better do a another study on the results of this report before taking any final decisions…yadda! yadda! yadda!
OK. So LIFT the bloody thing. Sheesh.