This is a lost cause. Civil Partnerships and same-sex marriage will NEVER be internationall recognised, its unrealistic to even think it. As for the EU, since there are seven countries allowing us to marry (not the UK of course), the European Parliament should be lobbied to make it mandatory that in order to be an EU member, recognition of same-sex marriage must be adhered to or lose membership, irrespective of a member country having any same-sex legal union laws. Israel is the only western country that recognises same-sex marriage yet doesn’t yet allow it to take place within its borders. Our own country can’t even do that. The audacity of our own successive governments to not recognise same-sex marriages for what they are is absolutely appalling. They are NOT civil partnerships and CPs aren’t marriages either.
Nicely put Robert.
…yes Mr Cameron…’it get’s better’?
step up to the plate “call me Dave”: “it gets better” needs active backing and action lest it is just words.
This one’s one of yours, kick his donkey out of the party if you meant what you said
About 18 months ago Ben Summerskill boycotted a Conservative reception because of links with the European homophobes. I wonder what he’s got to say on this development.
Robert I totally agree….Robert to be PM
Meanwhile, Cameron’s ill-judged alliance with homophobes in the European parliament is falling apart after the group’s Polish leader left his own party because it was too right-wing.
tory policy; screw you if you not british homosexual, you are on your own
…tory policy; screw you if you are not british homosexual, you are on your own….
How are the ‘give the Tories a chance!’ brigade doing?
Are we being conned by the cons ? Why on earth would they object to this, it doesn’t force other countries to bring in CP/marrigaes and countries like Poland can continue to be as nasty to their own nationals as they want. The change is simply to acknowlege a foreing person’s civil status and to give them an appropriate set of rights. It’s a theme echoced by Ms Redding just over a month ago when the free movement directive was discussed ie you retain your rights and status if you work and live in another EU country… What an uneducated tory twat! His excuses are wrong – there is no interference at all with a countries own citizens just other people citizens!!. For heavens sake we have to accept doctor qualifications from doctors with bad English, I would have thought that was more life threatening!.
This isn’t a “gay” issue!. CP/PACS in other EU countries are open to straights, it will force the UK to recognise foregin straight partnerships. Is this the objection?
It may also force the UK to recognise foreign gay marriages and not to downgrade them. It will be forced to recognise foreign civil status ? Is this the objection?
A worry for us is that CP will never be recognised as marriages. Where a CP and gay marriage exist then CP will not be equated to marriages and won’t get the same potential rights – see French rules, foreign gay marriages have potentially all the same rights as French marriages but foreing CP only have possibly the potential of achieving the same rights as a French PACS (which are much less).
Since when have human rights and basic decency been a matter for states to decide?
I would turn the Tory argument back on them – if they believe it is the right of member states to decide these issues for themselves then this motion supports that principle. For example, Britain has freely decided to create Civil Partnerships for its citizens and yet Poland is trying to interfere with that British sovereign national choice by refusing to recognize CP status and thereby effectively preventing UK citizens working of living in Poland.
If the Tories really believe in British sovereignty over its own civil institutions then they should support this EU motion which seeks to make other states acknowledge that sovereignty. In fact they are trying to do the reverse and wanting foreign countries to be able to veto our UK laws.
It is a shameful that the Tories (the party of individuality and freedom) seek to uphold the right of foreign governments and not the rights of UK citizens.
As mentioned above, the motion in no way seeks to tell any government what to do for it’s own citizenry, against which the Tories argument might be relevent (if wrong)
D. Cameron promised to push for international recognition of Civil Partnership. Therefore he should have used this reason to basically slap down Mr Callanan.
Instead all this has done is question why such a person has been given the job of top Tory in the European Parliament.
I do find it strange that the EU did all it could to represent equality a few years ago but increasingly seem to be stepping back.
I do agree that countries who wish to enter the EU do so under the full recognition of equality for all and if they can’t agree to that they shouldn’t be allowed until they do. In recent years the EU has questionably allowed homophobic countries like Poland take part however my worry is when Turkey finally join.
The EU seems to be expanding but with countries who do not believe in equality, weither that be sexual, racial or gender.
What Martin Callanan stands for is appalling and seriously has no place in modern day politics. To prove his worth David Cameron does need to pick up on this and seize this arguement and nip in in the bud, show us who is leader.
It is naive to think that governments that allow equal marriage and civil partnerships but won’t support it’s recognition in other countries, will not see an angry backlash.
It’s time for some backbone David Cameron!!
It is simple – when the Poles, the Italians etc try to move to the UK under their EU Freedom or Movement rights the UK should stop recognising their marriages. Why ?, becuase a reverse to the States Soverignty argument is also true. By refusing to recognisea rights that the UK Government gave its citizens which can be used in the freedom of movement mechanism, ie Civil Partnerships these homophobic EU countries are interfering in the soverign rights Britian, an EU country to treat all its citizens equally. That is British heterosexuals have a right that British homesexuals don’t at that is no longer acceptable in the UK.
I reckon this chap is killing two birds with one stone – pandering to the Tories’ homophobic friends in Europe and pursuing an anti-EU agenda.
has that BNP sympathiser Martin Callinan been sacked from the Tory Party yet. If not then why not?
And why are the Tories still in alliance with an extreme-right, homophobic, anti-semitic party like the Polish Law and Justice Party?
Its a bit rich of our government to push for international recognition of civil partnerships when we refuse to recognise same-sex MARRIAGES performed in Norway, Sweden, Belgium, Holland, Spain and Portugal. Where in the marriage certificates of those countries does it say that those marriages are civil partnerships? They’re NOT and never will be. Our government conveniently develops a severe case of dyslexia when it comes to recognition of a marriage for what it really is. I suspect if it reversed its position, it would open the door for full marriage equality, probably the ulterior motive why we’re barred from it, the religious red herring aside. I find this entire move to have CPs recognised elsewhere an exercise in hypocrisy and the double standard.
Fine. In that case no marriage enacted in one EU state should be recognized in any OTHER EU state.
See, that’s the point, Mr. Callanan. Noone claims the UK should dicate family law – but quite a few of us think that a [marriage/civil union/partnership] in ONE EU country should be respected as the same in OTHER EU countries.
If not, what then happens to the “free flow” of people? You move to take a job in another country, and suddenly you’re divorced?
Ok. Fine. But the same should then apply to regular, hetero, marriage. Noone should dictate family law, after all!
Well if you all feel so strongly about it then you should all send an email to your mep to protest.
On the 30th Nov there’s another debate on mutual recognition. So start writing to ensure the debate goes our way.
“Discussion will be divided into four thematic sessions. The first will focus on cross-border divorces, property regimes applied to marriages and other forms of union, and the mutual recognition of same-sex marriage and of civil partnerships.”
Comment from Labour MEP from here website:
Arlene McCarthy, Labour’s spokesperson on the European Parliament’s Legal Affairs Committee, said: “Currently same sex couples who have a civil partnership in the UK can find themselves losing their rights when travelling to other countries in the European Union.
“In Britain we recognise the status of other countries’ civil partnerships but that isn’t always true for British people who move abroad.
NO Arlene , the UK only recgonises gay civil unions. We set gay people apart in the UK becuase labour gave us a gay only CP. You’re a euro mep you should now this is not the case in other EU countries. The UK, for instance, does not recognise straight French PACS or straight Dutch CPs etc…. Change our discriminatory CP in the UK. Stop downgrading marriages to CP in the UK… Respect other people laws and civil statuses in the UK… We are part of the problem!!!!!
and still nothing from “call me Dave”!
He sacked Lord Young, he’s had nasty things to say about his latest lord (who suggested that child and other beenfits encouraged un-employed chavs to bred), but nothing about this institutionalised covert homophobia
Bad pool, old chap
He’s a nationalist and an idiot.
With the mish mash of different forms of legal unions for gay couples in the EU, doesn’t this just prove that none of them are equal to the universal gold standard that is MARRIAGE. Getting other countries to recognise CPs is nothing more than an exercise in futility. All the wasted energy on this could be devoted to removing the ban on marriage for gay couples.
Mastic and others, thank you. Why is it that we see the larger picture and our government doesn’t? Since StonewallUK has reversed its position on marriage equality, I urge everyone to bombared Summerskill with emails, letters, phone calls demanding an answer as to why there is NO mention of it StonewallUK’s website. I suspect he was only paying lipservice to avoid an embarrassing demonstration at the recent awards ceremony. We must hold him accountable, 24/7, 365 or else we should demand his removal and replace him with someone who believes in full equality an competent enough to make it happen.
Hear, hear! Robert
Why is it that parties that trumpet the values of small government, individuality and personal freedom are often the very opposite of those values in practice. Do they mean that they believe in small government when it comes to providing services but believe in big government in matters of personal freedom?
Robert – yes , I agree but putting the pressure on via the EU is gotta be good and we need more rights in the EU for all European gays and straights…
We are in a sitution where we have gay/straights marriages, CP(pacs, domestic partnerships straight and gay) – this lifts the profile – the UK wil be forced to rethink its CP by this – it will be diffiuclt to make CPs exclusively gay and without this exclusitivity then marriages becomes more possible….It will be difficult for the UK to downgrade marriages to CP, again something which will make marriage more possible here …. and yes, there is the obvious one, marriage is known everywhere and CPs are not, having marriage will be easilty interpreted all round the EU so pressure will build to convert it to that….
Stonewall are useless…. it’s the politicians and the EU and bodies like this which are going to eventually get us gay marriage…It’s not just cameron, what about Clegg, milliband, lucas – we don’t have a majority govt, we have the weakest gvt for a long time and no-one is willing to strke a blow on this issue