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Bishops say gay rights laws damage Christian freedoms

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  1. Oh, yes, bummer, isn’t it? And all those silly little Race Laws damage racists freedom to spout hate.

    But note this Bishop and Co – NORMAL adults aren’t interested in what other consenting adults do in bed. Those who are clearly have problems. And people who get off on prejudice and hate should receive counselling. Why on earth would anyone WANT to discriminate like this? “PLease, sir, may I have the right to victimise another human being?” Sick.

    1. Katie Murphy - ex cath family 15 Mar 2012, 3:45am

      Its all about the bigots bitching that they are the victims, when in fact they are the victimizers.

      Oldest political trick in the book.

  2. Yawn. Yet more pretended victimhood from the religious bigots. I’m glad hardly anyone, even anyone religious, takes these kinds of self-important idiots seriously anymore.

    Isn’t it telling, though, that they only do this on gay issues? Where are they when it’s race or disability in the spotlight? I’m sure if a couple were openly racist because of their religious beliefs, they would be denied the privilege of fostering too – should that be tolerated? Do these clerics think that racial equality laws trump their “right” to be bigots?

    Because, this is the crux of it, THERE IS NO LEGAL RIGHT TO THE FREE PRACTICE OF BIGOTRY. Whatever the inspiration behind it. Religious reasons are no better than any other reasons for wanting to discriminate. Religion must have no special privilege over any other form of cultural phenomenon in the public sphere, no unwarranted influence or respect. It is not a get-out-of-following-the-law-free card, and having this pointed out to you is in no way equivalent to persecution.

    So stop claiming special privileges and pretending that you’re being discriminated against when you don’t get them.

  3. This decision surely is not about whether they are Christian or not. It is about the well being, acceptance and development of any child that they may be asked to foster. What happens if that child is on the cusp of realising he or she is gay? What kind of self image is a child in such an environment likely to develop.

    What is it, in the eyes of Lord Carey and Bishop of Winchester, that means Christians are not free to learn and act on the best scientific knowledge we have on the development of sexuality and sexual orientation?

    Is their not an approved school for clerics in this country where these two can be detained until they are re-socialised, whereby humanity is left free to develop a rational approach to human relationships and stretch beyond the mores of a band of iron age shepherds?

  4. Keith Lynwood 1 Nov 2010, 12:55pm

    Her christian beliefs would not allow her to tell foster children that being gay is acceptable. UNQUOTE
    So she would advocate that any gay children commit suicide as it is unacceptable for them to live.
    Now backed by the religious bosses .
    They are all freaks.

  5. hey homophoic bigots, its not be cause your christian. its because your homophobes. join the sort of christianity thats okay with homosexuality and you’ll be fine.

    people who wanna tell foster kids that being christian is immoral, hateful and wrong get the same crap as you do. at least one can choose to be a christian or not.

  6. Lord Carey (the usual suspect incidentally, for this sort of rant) is happy to mention that “Research clearly establishes that children flourish best in a family with both a mother and father in a committed relationship.”

    What he forgets to mention is that research clearly establishes that children flourish just as well (if not sometimes better) with two mothers or tow fathers in a committed relationship.

    The point is not about the gender of the persons involved but the symbolic role each take in the family unit in question. A father figure is indeed need to impose “the law” but that doesn’t have to be a man. Just as a nuturing figure doesn’t have to be female.

  7. I cannot believe this Lord Carey demanding a separate system of justice on cases where homosexuality and religion collide! How dare he! The audacity from a man who hasn’t even been elected to Parliament is beyond belief! The sooner these unelected bishops are abolished and there is true separation of church and state, the better.

  8. Religion is trumped by homosexuality because its only an opinion, not a biological fact. Do speed limits restrict my ‘right’ to speed? Yes, and rightly so because there is no right, its the same here.

  9. Rights should always trump beliefs. This couple are not fit to foster children because their beliefs make them damgerous to children and they could do damage. They are odious and this odium would be damaging. People should be protected for the way they are born, while people who make a choice to believe in whacky things should do so totally behind closed doors and not inflict it on other poeple. As a gay parent I am horrified at the thought that if I and my child’s other parents died that my child might be placed with a homophobic family such as this. That would be totally unacceptable.

  10. Jock S. Trap 1 Nov 2010, 1:38pm

    How arrogant can you get?

    Not being Discriminated against is a privilege is it.

    Comes to something when how one Chooses to live their lives takes president over those that are born the way they are. Just more evidence that religious Never wants humans to progress into anything better, let alone the right to be able to live out our lives being ones self.

  11. I’m really nervous about this case though, there was a similar one in 2008. Google Vincent and Pauline Matherick from Somerset. This similarly hetero-supremacist couple were re-instated as foster carers after initially refusing to co-operate with Somerset County Council’s Equality policy. The courts let them off the hook because of their “faith”.

    Is there any point in fighting for any gay rights when there’s far too many loopholes for them to be upheld? It’s one step forwards, two steps back. And “Christians” have the audacity to claim persecution when it’s only their opinions under fire, NOT THEIR BIOLOGY!!!

  12. homosexuals to be just one in 66 of the population.”

    oh yeah………..and the rest

  13. Sister Mary Clarance 1 Nov 2010, 2:02pm

    Well he has a point. Over time society has eaten away at the freedoms on the church and you can understand his point to some extend.

    For example, I thought the Halloween weekend would be the perfect opportunity to enjoy an evening watching a witch being burned at the stake, and despite flicking though Time Out from cover to cover, I couldn’t find a SINGLE witch burning. Can you believe that? Not a single one.

    What has society come to when the church cannot pluck a hapless maiden off the streets of an afternoon, denounce here as a witch, and set fire to her.

    We’re close to the Thames here, so we even though of maybe watching a dunking, but Jesus, the PC brigade even seem to have put the boot in there. As best we could see not a single witch dunking for the entire weekend.

    1. Katie Murphy - ex cath family 15 Mar 2012, 3:49am

      the chief witches are the vicar of christ in Rome, and the heads of the other bigot churches.

      Time to turn them into women.

  14. and another thing

    child ask gay foster mum, Mummy is it wrong to be a christian.
    reply, of course not, dear you free to believe in what you want as long as you still respect others.

    Christian foster mother to child, Mummy is it wrong to be gay?
    reply Yes dear, you will be condemed to hell and will rot forever. I can longer adknowledge you and now I must go and prey to save your soul.

    I know where I would rather look after my child

  15. should read, I know who I would rather look after my child. Opps

  16. What they need to realise is that religion is a choice, while sexuality is god-given.

  17. I’ve been saying this for years. Its time to disestablish the state cult once and for all, diminish its bigoted power. They need to stay out of politics altogether. To think our taxes prop them up. Why should we support their lifestyle? Nobody comes into this world religious and bigoted, they choose to be who they are and what they believe in, we do not. Theirs is all learned beahviour after all, sick behaviour at that.

  18. Dave North 1 Nov 2010, 3:00pm

    Morality is doing what’s right no matter what you are told.

    Religion is doing what you are told no matter what’s right.

  19. Does the COE not have rules against LYING?

    1) NO ONE has said Christians are unfit to adopt. The couple isn’t being denied the right to adopt based on their religion but based on their homophobia.

    2) There is NO research that “clearly establishes that children flourish best in a family with both a mother and father in a committed relationship”, NONE! I demand that the Bishops produce this “research” that they claim clearly establishes this. They pulled that out of their asses and should not get away with it. Demand that they produce the peer reviewed, scientific research.

    What they seem to be pissed about is the fact that THEIR rights are no longer being allowed to trample the rights of others as they have for hundreds and hundreds of years. Notice that they aren’t asking for an equal respect for the rights of each side. They are asking that when the rights of gays come up against the beliefs of so-called “Christians” then the Christians’ rights take precedence.

    You can just feel the disgust dripping from their lips with every mention of “HOMOSEXUALS”.

  20. The headline should really read
    “Gay rights laws damage homophobic Christian’s freedoms”
    Absoluely… they should be restricted as much as possible, meanwhile the freedoms of Christian’s who are not homophobes will not be affected by gay rights at all.

  21. It’s interesting that the Church feels it is being curtailed in what it can say due to various laws, yet not that long ago, a person could be imprisoned, or even executed for speaking out against the Church under the all-powerful blasphemy laws.

    Funny how the world turns, innit?

  22. Jock S. Trap 1 Nov 2010, 3:46pm

    Isn’t it ironic that these bishops say that because of equality laws gay rights are being “privileged”, yet clearly see themselves above any such equality laws!

  23. Of course they should. The rights of people that are must ALWAYS come before the rights of people that believe (especially when it has long been disproven).

    If I create a religion that blames women for the ills of the world or thinks black people are equal is that acceptable or should the laws of the land be formost?

    The fact that people should be able to worship what ever fable they have been brainwashed into is correct however we should never forget that religion (not faith) is one of the most dangerous things man has ever created.

  24. The laws aren’t meant to suppress anyone. The laws are in place to protect gay people from bigots like these bishops.

  25. just tell that to every gay person that gets beaten up or worse…

  26. john sharp 1 Nov 2010, 4:18pm

    Christians racist against gays
    you call that religion
    that is hate
    stop all your religious lies
    tax the church to the max

  27. True, Andy Q, because in many cases religion is nothing to do with any god or gods at all. It’s simply another system of control which requires an enemy to create a feeling of insecurity and thus loyalty in its followers. A belief in god/gods is a comfort to some people and that’s no problem. Life can be hard and we do what we must to ease it, but for a religion to start persecuting others is disgusting. Why do they have to reinforce their faith by denigrating and abusing other people? Because their faith is actually very weak (for all the cr*p they come out with) and they feel so insecure about themselves and powerless that they take this out on other people to try to make themselves important. Some religions – or rather some religious leaders – are no better than loony cults that prey on the vulnerable and damage them. If they didn’t hide under the shield of religion they’d have been locked up long ago, but they think religion gives them special permission to ignore the law and spread hate and lies.

    It’d be nice if TRUE people of faith came out and denounced them.

  28. There is a good balanced article here (http://www.secularism.org.uk/children-should-be-protected-fro.html), as well as a copy of the whole letter, and you can see exactly who signed it, only 2 current bishops, and the 2 exes Carey and Ali, so not really a representative section of the C of E at all.

  29. “Christian” has nothing to do with disagreeing regarding homosexuality. MANY “Christian” denominations have absolutely no issue whatsoever with gay people. These “bishops” are using disingenuous arguments to justify their own fear and hatred.

  30. Christian Freedoms . . .

    In the 21st Century the Christian church does not have an inalienable right to discriminate against LGBT people

    Unfortunately, Christianity has rapidly become a one issue religion with its obession with; and hatred of homosexuality the defining feature of those people who like to play the Christian Freedoms card.

  31. There is a really easy way to show just how dishonest the argument is that rights of gay people are being given precedence over Christians.
    Let’s swap sexual orientation with race – because bigotry based on race is no less bigotry based on homophobia.
    An white supremacists interviewing candidates for a job refuses to give the job to a black person because he doesn’t like the idea of employing someone who isn’t white. Then he gets prosecuted under anti-discrimination legislation. His defence is, “This black person’s rights are being put ahead of mine. My rights to freedom of speech and freedom of thought are being denied to me.”
    Is there anyone who would take that claim seriously?

  32. D Lambert 1 Nov 2010, 5:35pm

    Are we really an authentic Christian country?

    Or was it that our ancestors were born into that particular domineering religion, too subservient to question and deprived of any say in the matter.

    It being 2010, I choose freedom.

    Up yours Lord Carey.

  33. Jerry Maneker 1 Nov 2010, 5:39pm

    Isn’t it ironic that professing “Christians” see their preaching of hate and exclusion to be above the teachings of Jesus Who said we are to love and not judge others? And still being fully aware of this fact, they continue to have the temerity to call themselves “Christians!”

  34. Carey & Co
    ““This ‘equality’, however, privileges homosexual rights over those of others,..”
    Well, ain’t life a real bitch when equality is granted to people you’ve enjoyed persecuting for about 2000 years, those nasty gay people who didn’t overpopulate the planet just so you and your like could lord it over even more people … and, now you’ll cherry-pick the Bible and quote out of context to support your bigotry, usually a now infamous verse from Leviticus. Just because some numpty cleric between 1605 and 1611 did a piss-poor job translating that Leviticus verse you think you can get away with it! No chance!!!!
    You’re a disgrace to your professed religion and a total embarrassment to your God!!!

  35. i agree with the bishops.

  36. Then you are incorrect.

  37. These Christians are deadly serious, people. I’ve lost two very good straight Christian friends over this issue. When I insisted that the Cookham Bed and Breakfast bigots were wrong to turn away the gay couple earlier this year my good Christian friends severed their relationship with me. They are utterly convinced that they should be allowed to practise, and follow, their deluded beliefs in public, that their deluded beliefs should supersede the requirements of the state.

  38. Peter In Brisbane 1 Nov 2010, 9:20pm

    And he Carey putteth on his dress and tall hat, a hat taller than all the other hats in all the cities and he sayeth. Hey, over here, I’m one of the big boys in town too. See my tall hat, havn’t you been listening to us and the moral majority? Thus the Church embarked on its long history of sexual repression, producing in its celibate priesthood a fear and hatred of homosexuals and women
    that erupted in the wholesale burning of faggots and witches.

  39. i love u jesus u rock add me on facebook my name is paul inuy stevenson taker read enishals pistaker

  40. Rev Laurie Roberts 1 Nov 2010, 9:33pm

    More bollox –yawn .

    Y do they bovver !

    eejets

  41. Truly we are in the time of the anti-Christ, and I am loving every slap-in-the-kisser the Christian gets. Completely insane to seek the right to leaglly enforce childabuse and damaging illusions.

  42. …civil unrest!…I’m gonna wet myself!…this is hate speech and should be prosecuted……and if these nutters are gonna indoctrinate their kids with hatred (or self-hatred) then their kids should be taken into care

  43. Peter In Brisbane 2 Nov 2010, 1:47am

    Sir, if this rebellion continues, a bishop will not be safe in his bed.

  44. Bishops have a LOT more to,learn yet! Soon they will be an endangered species! You should see the ages of the local congregations near me. Most parishioners arrive by walking frame! As soon as all the old churches are sold and converted into apartments and private residences the better!

  45. Peter In Brisbane 2 Nov 2010, 3:54am

    Bless his bishoprix for his cross and Sword words. “For their price is far above Ruby’s”.
    Rubys price was only $20 a night.

  46. I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.

    ——-Thomas Paine

  47. I have to say I agree with the Church on this one (and yes I am gay). Children need stable families and a good experienced couple like them will provide an excellent environment for children. If the council are worried about them not accepting homosexuality then why not let them foster 0-9 year olds? There’s no reason for a blanket ban and it doesn’t fuel acceptance of us by fighting against such things

  48. Religion is a personal lifestyle choice. Being born LGBT is not.

  49. Mihangel apYrs 2 Nov 2010, 12:26pm

    Matthew @47
    because 0 – 9 is an ideal time to indoctrinate (i.e. brainwash) young minds into any sort of foolishness and bigotry. Fundamentals, once established, are difficult to overcome or eradicate.

  50. Well by all means, let me apologize if my equality interferes with your God given right to be a bigot.

  51. The church preaches love and tolerance! Oh yes just ask any of them and they will tell you so!

  52. Keith Lynwood 2 Nov 2010, 7:21pm

    no 47 Matthew . Being a gay christian then you have to follow the bishops as that is how they have brainwashed you. Don’t let these bigoted people get away with it. Wake up to what is happening.

  53. Matthew, this couple will indoctrinate any child they foster with religious bigotry towards gay people, hardly the christian thing to do. Jesus Christ didn’t judge us let alone mention us in the new testament. They will be raising tomorrow’s homophobes, bullies and bashers. That’s hardly what I would call a stable emotional involvement in which to raise any child. Just because a child is raised by a foster father and mother doesn’t necessarily mean that the environment is stable. There have been cases where foster parents have physically and sexually abused children in their care. Personally, I find this couple’s extreme religious beliefs to be a form of abuse when they teach children in their care that being gay is wrong. They’re teaching them to practice bigotry through religion. To me that’s mental and emotional abuse. Nobody should be forced to believe in any religion, afer all, its learned behaviour, a lifestyle, nobody came into the world that way. If you look at the history of the world’s religions, the majority of them have done an extraordinary job of screwing up the world and causing a lot of wars, death and destruction along the way. It hasn’t changed much.

  54. Miss Carey and her ilk just have to get on with it. They could always convert to Catholicism and troll the public conveniences in Rome instead.

  55. Only 1 in 66 is gay eh? Then that makes Jesus all the more special, since the Bible makes it clear that there was one special loved one in His life and that person was a MAN.

  56. 21stCenturySpirituality 5 Nov 2010, 5:59pm

    “suppress all disagreement or disapproval and ‘coerce silence’.”

    This is bloody rich coming from them, as if ‘because the bible says so’ so therefore by extension ‘because God says so’ isn’t the ultimate conversation stopper and dialogue closer and pertinent question avoiding cop out.

  57. stan James 25 Nov 2010, 8:47am

    Teh freedom to demonize people and drive them to alcohol, drugs and yes the suicide of 3000 gay kids every year in the USA

    Hitler had his freedoms also. And it took the deaths of 55 million people to end his freedoms.. BTw he is still not yet unexcommuniced by the catholic church of the molestation.

    These churches should be shut down and turned into museums to teach the younger generation about hatred in the name of God

  58. I dont mind christians, as long as it’s kept behind church doors. As for wanting foster care – how many children do they want – they have unlimited access to biblical breeding in the name of procreation. Must be this christian agenda thing

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