Even the Gaydar figure is bound to be a conservative estimate because obviously not every LGB person in the country has a gaydar account.
Gaydar is even less reliable a source than the government report.
They do NOT have 2.2 million individual members. I used to have about 14 accounts with them when I was a slut.
Ooh, the Christian Institute is crowing that
“Only one person in 100 is a homosexual”
But then accuracy of figures never really bothers these God bothering bigots
1: Val wrote: “Even the Gaydar figure is bound to be a conservative estimate because obviously not every LGB person in the country has a gaydar account”
I feel asking 450,000 people to speak for approx 65 million is not only misleading but wholly inaccurate and opens up discrimination and abuse from religious bigots and the like to suggest we are not as great in numbers as thought. (Like they need an excuse!)
I do believe the likes of websites, while yes people do have several accounts the figure is some way of going towards a more accurate figure. I would think that that is still a small proportion of how many LBT people are actually living in the UK ie the many that aren’t on Gaydar. I reckon the figure is far greater than the powers that be would ever admit because then it would make likes of the churches out to be the ones who are the minority not those born Hetrosexual, Bisexual, Lesbian and Gay.
Boy would the drama queens in the church just love that…. lol
I personally think the way the survey was conducted is to blme for the inconsistencies. I remembered something like this popped into my email without much of a warning. Just think for a moment…. why would anyone give away your most intimate details away just because they claim they are the officials!
And besides it was optional whether you take the survey or not!
so there you go. You cannot use the report as offical figures. That would be a great injustice.
at some of the bigger london pride events it seems that most LGBT people must have been present then ? me thinks not … rather just the tip of a pink iceberg. if there is one lesson for us all – it’s – COME OUT OF THE CLOSET – if you’re not counted you have no lobby
Where does 6.7% figure come from? 2.2 million isn’t 6.7% of 61 million… more like 3.6%
Am I just being thick or do your numbers not add up?
Prob nearer to 7% are lgbt in uk people lie or don’t tell the truth or don’t identify etc etc it’s always more than figures say
There are only 300,000 Jews in the UK so applying the Christian Institute’s “logic” they can be ignored altogether. Persecute away to your heart’s content!
And to take their idea further, why do we spend so much money making buildings and public transport wheelchair accessible when there are so few people in wheelchairs? It would be cheaper for the state to allocate each a personal sherpa to carry them!
This is where you get to when you believe that rights are given in proportional to the numbers of a particular group in the population instead of belonging inalienably to each and every one of us as individuals.
As someone who is in a tiny minority as a churchgoer, Mike Judge should know this – or at least he would if he wasn’t such a shallow, bigoted hypocrite.
The ONS are probably the most respected poller in the country and both the report and methodology are quite thorough. The question was asked in a way that ostensibly shouldn’t prevent anyone answering honestly, but I would probably still think twice about it. Also the results are based on 247,000 responses from adults instead of 450,000; but this is still a good sample size.
The Gaydar figure is meaningless as it doesn’t say how it was derived, it should be something like number of users that have logged in during the past 12 months but is more likely to simply be their total number of accounts.
@Tom – the ONS stat is against the adult population of 49 million, so using the Gaydar figure gives me 4.5%, so it’s a bit of a mystery how they got 6.7%. This is always a problem with journalists and statistics.
All this really proves is that 1.5% were willing to admit to a total stranger they were gay. As with any poll, the methodology used is vital for understanding how they reached this figure. For example, did they simply ask if the person was gay, or did they ask about sexual partners? I only say this because I’ve met several men who have told they weren’t gay (or bi) because they don’t kiss other men, but will have sex with them. Go figure!
Oh c’mon, if the figure was as high as 7%, we would all know/meet a lot more gay people. I have lived in central London for 25 years and claims like 1 in 10 have always struck me as absurd. Experience tells me that 1 in 100 is about right.
And the Pink Pound is a crock. There would be a lot more services targeting the gay community if we really were 7 – 10% of the population!
How you measure the world will dictate what you are allowed find.
(Use a light microscope and you will observe the broad structure of cells, use an electron microscope and your will observe the full topographical structure of the cell)
Current Gay Lesbian bisexual categories are rather dated, in light of the broad canvas of 21st century sexualities:
. . . bicurious, bi-feeler, meterosexual, men who have sex with men, predominately heterosexual but 5% gay
. . . to mention but a few
MEASURE FOR MEASURE
How you measure the world will dictate what you are allowed to find.
(Use a light microscope and you will observe the broad structure of cells, use an electron microscope and your will observe the full detailed topographical structure of the cell)
. . . bicurious, bi-feeler, meterosexual, men who have sex with men, predominately heterosexual but 5% gay . . . to mention but a few
Oh pur-leeeese! Yeah, right, like 400,000 folks jammed Trafalgar Sq for Pride?! What is it with gay men and exaggeration? 2.2 million members? There are never more than 2000 guys in Central London – Gaydar’s core market – online at any one time alone, and you are hard-pushed to find more than a few hundred people online in any other destination at one time anywhere else. God these guys are desperate. Stick to your sequinned spandex boys mobbing the Pope and quit these even cheaper stunts that are an attempt to deceive and blow your trumpet at the same time.
So many still in the closet and those that hide behind heterosexual marriage!
@ JohnK, That may be true, but I know many many gay people who have no desire to either go to pride or sign up to gaydar, so these numbers are still only a small persentage of the actual gay/bisexual/non-straight people out there.
Why doesn’t the govt do a compulsory sexual health questionnaire on the same scale as the census? Questions could get a bit more personal and relate to sexual partners and relationships.
People lie about their sexuality all the time, even to themselves! And so goes the cliche of the married straight fella who goes cottaging behind the wife’s back. Ticking one box may not be that simple.
But I think a complete sexual health questionnaire could provide more detailed data, rather than just a single tick box which says very little about sexual identity. What about all those married fellas with 2.4 kids and a mortgage who experimented a couple of times at college? Should they be counted as at least bisexual?
Bring on a questionnaire which would make Alfred Kinsey proud and we may finally put an end to all this speculation!!!
Pink News, fight back, do a questionnaire of your own and canvas the public…and we’ll love you forever…
The 6.7% figure comes from the UK’s online population. It was confusing me myself until that thought occurred to me.
But still, I suppose it’s good news. Sure some people have duplicate accounts but others won’t be on gaydar at all. I’m not, several of my other gay friends aren’t and I suspect the majority of closet gays aren’t either. I don’t imagine the actual percentage is anything like 10%, but I think it’s definitely higher than 1.5%. But even if it is that low, that’s still three in every two hundred people that deserve equal rights, even if they are fewer in number than previously thought.
Do numbers matter? even if their was only 2 us in the whole country we should be treated in a fair and equal way. Until we have civil marriage we still live under a system of apartheid in relationships that sees civil partnerships as second class. Maybe Stonewall and Ben Summerskill are happy being second class I’m not.
“”Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, said: “A large amount of public money has been spent on the basis of higher figures, which have turned out to be a lie.””
“”Conservative MP Philip Davies added: “An awful lot of focus in diversity issues is given to people’s sexual preference and this difference is not as widespread as believed.””
How would numbers effect what protection any group of people deserve. Do we now put a price on living in a free and fair society? Should we cancel all rights and legal protection for Methodists to practice their faith because they have very small numbers now?
Lets face it this survey has show up some very questionable results. In the wildest realms of fantasy you would not say 71.9% of people in this country are god fearing Christians. That’s the biggest joke in this whole survey in my eyes. I read today the religion question was asked before the sexuality question. Well if you just said you are Christian you are not then going to contradict that by saying you are gay. Just as if the sexuality question was first people might be reticent to say the was a Christian after saying you was gay.
Also I would add the survey left out the options of being atheist, agnostic, secularist in the religion section.
The most important thing is everybody deserves political representation and legal protection its not something that’s decided by percentages by questionable statistics in a survey that should not cover both religion and sexuality at the same time.
Er whilst I agree with what you are saying Helen that is not how any Government Policy works you only have to look at funding of specific medication and treatment within the NHS works to see clear evidence. Unfortunately books have to be balanced and unless more LGBT people stand up and be counted in their workplace and in society you can not blame government for failing to give them due representation
I’ve had five different Gaydar accounts since it started and none of them have been deleted.
As it’s anonymous, internet dating is perfect for guys who are in the closet – those who have some kind of attraction to the same sex. We all know how few contacts on Gaydar ever materialise into a real-life date and how often the chat window closes suddenly after some hot chat! It’s clear what’s going on – they are purely focused on sex.
Bottom line: there are relatively few openly gay men and women who are out and shouting about it, but a huge number who have some same-sex feeling but don’t lead a gay lifestyle and wouldn’t own up to being gay or bi on a survey. Maybe 15-20% of the population fall into the latter category I reckon.
As I said earlier, the marketing people and our ‘community leaders’ need to stop pretending that the small number who are on the scene represent everyone and that millions have a gay lifestyle. It’s counterproductive and ultimately very damaging.
Also I would take anything that Gaydar says with a pinch of salt…
Consider this promotional blurb from Gaydar Radio in 2007:
‘Reach: 225,000 weekly. The station… has an audience that is 88% male, predominantly young, ABC1 and aged 18 to 34. Some 93% of listeners are openly gay. Gaydar has an 18% reach of the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) audience.
‘Some 58.4% earn more than £20,000 per year and 27.9% earn more than £30,000.’
This all seems unlikely. The percentage figures suggest an ‘openly gay’ male audience of about 184,000. But if 6% of the UK population is LGBT there can only be around 396,000 gay or bi males (many of them not openly gay) aged between 18-34 in the entire UK and in 1999 only 48.5% of the population was classed as being ABC1.
70% or so identified as ‘Christian’? Had gays/bis and gay-friendlies been interviewed en masse wouldn’t there be a much higher ‘non believer’ figure?
Suspicious. I barely know any practicing religious people in my town and church attendence is dropping. Even the muslim kids spend more time in town at the shops than at the mosque.
Have any of us actually been asked or surveyed in this huge huge survey? Because it seems to me everyone’s talking about it but nobody I’ve come across so far – who’s gay/bi – has had any contact with it?
Of course it’s wrong. I’m gay and I wasn’t asked.
“I’ve had five different Gaydar accounts since it started and none of them have been deleted”
But how do you know they don’t work of individual ISP data rather than member accounts?
Regardless, the figures bandied about by both sides are probably misleading and are never a true reflection of truth. What should be more worrying is how readily the xtian right are willing to use it as a lynchpin to demob gay people their natural rights as tax-paying law abiding members of a now secular country.
EM – many christians lie it’s a christian society etc
I don’t see why numbers matter – 1 or a million still means people need to be treated fairly under the law etc
Yes, the survey was poorly conducted. Perceptive psychologists are laughing at the methods that were used.
But the result will be used against us, to play down our importance.
We need to object. We need to insist on a truly 100% anonymous online survey. In this day and age it can be organised. Confronting people on doorsteps is no longer necessary, or excusable.
To me the headline figure is that 5% of the population DIDN’T identify as ‘heterosexual’ – despite it being the ‘safe’ answer – yet the right-wing media and the god botherers have wilfully ignored this.
The oft-quoted 10% figure was clearly over the in terms of out-gay people. For example, the population of Plymouth is approx. 250,000 and yet there most certainly aren’t 25,000 LGBT’s beating down the doors of the only gay nightclub (I wish!)
However, from personal experience, I would bet my left b*ll*ck that 10% of the population experience same-sex attraction and a great number of them have acted upon it at least once. And despite what the god botherers et al will claim, most of these people do not live a life of shame and guilt.
Coincidently, only 12% of the UK population go to church/mosque etc. They are the ‘out’ religious and this should be the figure taken into account.
Obviously flawed survey: how many 16 year-olds will admit to a complete stranger that they are gay? Credit to the brave ones that did. Also, on the Guardian comments page one bisexual woman who took part in this survey was interviewed by a lady who lives six doors down her street!
Sadly, this woeful survey is wood to the fire of homophobic bigots and needs to be challenged, so well done to Gaydar on that note…
Everyone seems to be looking the numerous studies that have been carried out that put the gay population at 4% (which I believe is realistic): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation#Modern_survey_results
The might not have had the numbers of this new study, however these studies are still valid and many of them put it at around 4%.
I read that this study was carried out over phone and doorstep – I would definately not feel comfortable giving out my sexuality in this way – as im sure many others would not.
While I take gaydar accounts of their radio listeners and website accounts with a pinch of salt, they do give some indication of the population. Many people may have multiple accounts, fake accounts etc; however I think I only know one person out of all of my gay friends who is signed up to gaydar.
4% seems realistic to me. 6-10% is too high as its not my experience to meet gay people in this quantity. 1% is too low due to the validity of the method, and the general stigma of being homosexual.
Remeber back to when you were in school. I pretty much remember there always being at least one gay/lesbian/bi in each year at school (65 students in a year at my school).
In my class I know of one other guy whos in a relationship with a guy presently, and another guy who tried it on with me once in school (not sure about now). so including me thats 3/65…or 4.46%
and thats been true throughout school years I believe.
Do you really not remmeber anyone in your year at school who was gay (despite yourselves?!)
more studies need to be done. we cant ignore other studies and let this one study override them as it has the potential to be very damaging.
following on from the the validity of the method used by the ONS. I just read this study that was done back in 1998 on wikipedia:
“A random survey of 1672 males (number used for analysis) aged 15 to 19. Subjects were asked a number of questions, including questions relating to same-sex activity. This was done using two methods — a pencil and paper method, and via computer, supplemented by a verbal rendition of the questionnaire heard through headphones — which obtained vastly different results. There was a 400% increase in males reporting homosexual activity when the computer-audio system was used: from a 1.5% to 5.5% positive response rate; the homosexual behavior with the greatest reporting difference (800%, adjusted) was to the question “Ever had receptive anal sex with another male”: 0.1% to 0.8%.”
Seems to indicate how the delivery of a question seems to significantly skew results.
Some of the sluts on here may have had more than one gaydar account. But I’ve never even had one. So maybe all the non-sluts make up for the sluts with multiple gaydar personalities.
Still think Pink News should get together with the broadsheets and do Britain’s biggest sex survey! The time is right for such a project as previous questionnaires have been relatively small. It’s time to fight back and search the truth, but we can’t do it without the press. Alfred Kinsey had some interesting findings and that was in the 1940′s! Come on Pink News, queens don’t take it lying down! or do they??? – only the survey will tell :)
As with others, I find both the survey and Gaydar’s figures to both be inaccurate, however, unless every single Gaydar member has 3.4 profiles, their figures are more representative than the survey. Neither are accurate, but as others state, the multiple profiles address the fact that not every LGBT person has a gaydar account. Of my LGBT friends, only two of us have a gaydar profile (and the last time I logged onto mine was over 4 months ago).
I’ve long believed that 10% is far too high a number, however 1.5% is far too low, one only has to go to Manchester Pride to see this – somehow I doubt over half of the nations queers descend on that city for Pride every year! As with most, I personally have held that it is somewhere between 5-7%
whoops, I’ve got muddled up, I was confusing manchester pride with…. I don’t know what lol Attendance is roughly 45,000. Still, I somehow doubt 16% of the UK’s LGBT population hits the city. You don’t encounter THAT many different accents there lol
We should stop concentrating on this 1.5% figure! The fact is that 5% overall said they were not heterosexual.
3.5% refused to answer or described themselves as “other”,
and anyone’s guess is as good as mine what that’s supposed to mean, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that 5% aren’t straight!
Now bear in mind that in the 2001 census, 7.9% where non-white, and 5% ain’t that far behind.
So if ethnic minorities can demand equality services, then so can non-straights!
Bear in mind that
I mean the biggest problem is that theres no universal definition of what it means to be gay. The number of people who “homosexual desires” will be much higher than those who “identify as gay” etc. So its really a load of nonsense.
All that this ONS survey has told us is that:
“that DEFINATELY at LEAST 1 in 75 people are willing to say that they self-identify as either gay or bisexual”
Which I actually think is quite high when read like that; One has to remember that this is a definate baseline of the gay demographic. Once you add to this statistic that:
1. Because of stigma Gay people are likely to lie;
2. Many gay people may know they are gay but not be “out” therefore could not provide an answer over telephone/door
3. (elaborating on the above) Because of the way the questions were ask (personal methods like telephone and doorknocking) may have detered people from being honest;
4. The many people in denial over their sexuality
5. The fact that there is no definition of what is meant to be gay – (meaning that it doesnt include the people who have same sex desires, have slept with men or kissed men etc – BUT nethertheless self identify as straight)
6. That 3.5% of people refused to answer or describe themselves as “other” (would a straight person really tick this box? no this sounds more like someone who was questioning their sexual identity would do)
7. The fact that their exist independent smaller, but numerous surveys that seem to put the gay population at around 4%
8. And many other reasons
I am sure that you will see this 1.5% figure increase significantly.
More research must be done – this could be very damaging for future rights of the LGBT population.
I should add that it annoys me that all the news papers are just putting headlines like “1% of population is gay.”
It really shows a complete lack of thought.
Like i said all the ONS survey shows is that:
“DEFINATELY at LEAST 1 in 75 people are willing to say that they self-identify as either gay or bisexual”
and the headlines should reflect this. its a shame.
From personal experience I’d disagree with the 1.5% figure – in my year at college, there are 6 or 7 out gay people out of 100 – and I’m sure there’s a couple of people who are not out.
Sorry, but just because a website has X number of members does not mean that A. all those members are gay (thing about how many people would jokingly put their friends/people they hate on there) or B. that one account = one individual person. I agree with the 5-7% figure, but basing our numbers from a website where anyone can sign up, or anyone else can sign someone up, is moronic.
10% gays at least
20 % amongst non hearing people
( they do not hear gay slurs so they are naturally gays)
I don’t have a gaydar account and I haven’t answered to any survey. And I’m gay.
This numbers game is a spurious argument. Each side uses it as a hammer to promote their points of view. Why does it matter when taking about rights – FYI the Jewish population is 0.5% in UK. I don’t hear anyone saying this is a reason for limiting their rights.
I know someone (really) who advertised on a swinger site as a bi curious male. He was hoping to contact couples and /or single females. The vast majority of responses he got were from males who profiled themselves as “straight”. These “straight” males were often the male part of a couple or of course single males. So it seems that even on a swinger site many who should have done if they were being honest did not even click the bi curious box?
I don’t believe the person above who claims he used to have multiple accounts on Gaydar. Gaydar software immediately detects and flags up anyone who tries to open more than one account from one IP address.
Totally agree, I recently reactivated my 8 y/o gaydar account and it noted my IP address. So unless gaydar never used to do this or they don’t care about multiple accounts from the same IP address then it would be very unlikely that more than one account could be opened from the same IP address. Not sure how that works if it’s a flat share situation with the same internet connection though. But considering membership and advertising revenue is important to gaydar I assume they could be pretty conscientiousness in identifying potential individual customers.
The majority of gay men I know don’t use gaydar. Of course my friends could be lying but it’s not like there’s a problem admitting to it. OutEverywhere offers a different service. I also don’t know anyone who was surveyed by ONS. No one I know even knew this survey was happening. It seems odd that me, my friends, their acquaintances etc had no knowledge of a presumably substantial survey like this happening.
How you measure the world will dictate what you find.
Current Gay Lesbian bisexual categories are rather dated, in light of the broad canvas of 21st century sexualities: . . . bicurious, bi-feeler, meterosexual, men who have sex with men, predominately heterosexual but 5% gay . . . to mention but a few.
One other point, are 98.5% of heterosexuals really a 100% heterosexual
Hi, as far as I see, one good thing about the result/s of the survey is that it makes one laugh, so that way, hopefully, it will help to increase the number of gay people in the world, Good Luck
I know people who have had a lot of same-sex ‘exceptions’ but call themselves straight – go figure.
Shouldn’t Stonewall and the government be doing a lot more to discredit these figures based on Department for Trade and Industry evidence and estimates which puts the figure much higher
Also why would a government minister like Philip Davies make a comment on the foucs of diversity issues using the ONS figure rather than the one from the Department for Trade and Industry.
Homopobe thats why, so speak up a bit louder Stonewall and equality ministers.
Check out he idiots voting record and other racist right wing howlers here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Davies
One of the major polling agencies in the USA came up with a 5.8% figure in a blind poll
And how many people are still afraid to answer a poll to a post office box, which could really be to a christo-fascist group, with secret markings on the return papers to ID people
My guess is 10%. I’ve actually met about a dozen people who were secretly, or even admittedly gay, who all eventually broke off their marriages. Often remaining best friends with their ex, and helping the ex to fine a new str8 husband (most were males, a couple females)
Even more then marriage, IMHO, being out is the key thing the community needs.
Its awful hard to hate someone who you know, work with etc etc, who is gay and you respect. It is what makes more and moe good str8 people deaf when the Jesus freaks come around.
BTW, never forget – the more they protest against gays, well your man Shakespeare said it right -:”methinks he doth protest too much”
Asking people to disclose their sexuality on their doorstep, even with the so called “Adjustment of multiple choice cards” so to speak; I suspect will be perceived psychological by most people as intrusive, rude or plain harassment . . .
Recently I applied for a job where I was asked to declare my sexuality using an online form . . . I somewhat dithered as to making the application . . . I did make the application, but felt it was intrusive; and was trouble by the worry concerning how the data about might sexuality might be used.
Moreover, trying to get an accurate picture of a person’s sexuality is highly problematic: political, psychological and social factors may prevent a person giving an honest account.
450,000 people is by census or marketing terms is enormous. Even if all those who refused to answer were added that will still make up just over 3 million way below the 10% often quoted. I don’t know about gaydar but the positive response was 95% confirming themselves as straight. The other 5% aren’t all going to be gay. there was an extensive piece of research conducted in the 1990′s which suprised thse doing the work as there were only 1.1% active homosexuals in the sample. There has been an over exaggeration of figures for years and when a neutral survey is used all the gay right activists dispute the figures. I think it’s time to realise that there aren’t as many gay’s and just be honest about it and allow other lobbying groups such as the disabled to have more of a voice rather than be drowned out by the gay lobby.
Household surveys are deeply flawed when their results are used with respect to individuals. For instance, the white straight male in the household answers the survey on behalf of the ‘dependents’ in his household: his black bisexual housewife, his lebian college aged daughter, and his transgender granddad. Such a household would still produce for the survey = 1 straight man. ‘Move on to next household. No queers here.’
“There has been an over exaggeration of figures for years and when a neutral survey is used all the gay right activists dispute the figures.”
Stephen in what way was the survey . . . “Neutral, Rigourous,and extensive”
I agree that a scientific and neutral approach to surveying sexuality is needed.
It’s obvious that neither the ONS survey nor Gayday membership numbers can accurately reflect the number of gay people. How many people are willing to disclose the highly charged fact that they are gay to a stranger over the phone or at their door? I would personally feel uncomfortable with it even though I’m openly gay. Add to this all the people who are in the closet, who may be in heterosexual relationships. As well as all the people who won’t even admit to themselves that they are gay and all those who are confused or unsure. Of course none of these are willing to discuss this in this type of survey. Not even an anonymous survey over the internet will get all these people. There is simply no reasonable way of finding out these numbers but we can be sure that it is a lot more than 1.5%.
I wonder how many correspondents really did’t know. Perhaps its there education that’s lacking.
We just don’t know how many gay, lesbian and bisexual people there are, and, for the many reasons listed in this thread, I suspect we never will. But I feel sure of one thing; the number of people who fancy and have sex with others of their own sex is considerably larger than the number of people who espouse the l,g, and bi identities.
There are lies, dammed lies and there are statistics. I believe that 4% (1 in 25) is a truer figure, especially as I’m always beating off women with a pooey stick and yet find it hard to get a man! Figures like 1 in 10 of us being gay are being bounded about by gay rights groups while the religious suggest that only 1% of us are gay. 0.5% of people in this country (and the world) are Jewish but it is wrong to persecute them.
We will never know the answer but I would be interested in knowing what percentage of the population had had a same sex encounter after the age of sixteen. Considerably more than 1.5% I reckon? Many such would be in hetrosexual relationships at least some of the time. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if the majority of gay/bi people are in the closet.