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Video: Pope beatifies Cardinal Newman on final day of state visit

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  1. Let’s not kid ourselves. This is not really an LGBT issue.

    Newman was an anglican who wished to bring that faith closer to Rome. He ended up by becoming a catholic.

    This is a political beatification, and is to do with the vatican’s attempt to reach out to “conservative” anglicans and induce them to follow Newman’s example.

    As such, it’s a HUGE slap in the face to people like Rowan Williams.

    Ratzinger is not a man of god or religion. He is a man of politics, and this is all part of his power-game.


  2. Ian Bower (Lincoln) Not the other Ian 19 Sep 2010, 5:40pm

    I couldn’t agree more.

  3. Chrissie: as much as I would like to, I can’t say you are entirely wrong about the political motivation over JHN’s beatification (probably quite a bit wrong). Having watched and listened to Pope Benedict over these past few days, I am inclined to think that he IS a man of God and religion. I firmly believe his message was prophetic and timely.

    Notwithstanding my evangelical antipathy toward making people saints, having studied JHN, who I am pretty sure was as flawed as are we all, I have come to recognise his tremendous contribution in understanding, addressing and dealing with the great issues of his day (and relevant to our own) e.g. the nature of the Church, the need to show compassion toward the poor, and to be able to combat the “aggressive secularism” of the day while being able to reconcile rational thinking and faith.

    I will let JHN have the last word (first stanza from his hymn – Lead Kindly Light) and my inspiration for continuing on:

    “Lead, kindly Light, amid th’encircling gloom, lead Thou me on!
    The night is dark, and I am far from home; lead Thou me on!
    Keep Thou my feet; I do not ask to see
    The distant scene; one step enough for me.”

  4. A ‘saint’?

    What on eartg is that?

    Oh yeah – an honour given to superstitious people who believe that the Jesus cult has some basis in reality.

    I could declare that Rose West was a saint tomorrow. That would be just as valid as this saint ie utterly invalid and ridiculous.

    Forgive me Gaga for my aggressive secularism.

  5. John Henry Newman in a homosexual relationship? Are you mad? How can light go together with darkness?
    What else we will see on this deluded website?

  6. “After this failed he converted to Roman Catholicism, becoming probably the second most significant convert from the Church of England to Roman Catholicism after former prime minister Tony Blair.”

    Don’t forget Anne Widdecombe’s tits; they both converted as well.

  7. Huk – well you could start with the basic concept that ibuproven and a good osteopath will alleviate back pain. It’s not like he grew a new limb. No saintly intervention necessary, co-incidence at best. When Dawkins visited Lourdes and asked the guy running it how many “miricle cures” had been recorded over the many years and millions of pilgrims, there were no more than 55 alleged cases… all of whom had illnesses which everyday medical procedures could account for. Even cancer goes into remission sometimes.
    Then there’s your assertion that Newman was light and you insinuate a theoretical gay partner is ‘darkness’. What is this, Star wars? Life is not that black and white and labeling minorities with metaphorical colours doesn’t constitute empirical proof of anything.
    Granted there’s no solid evidence that Newman and St John had a carnal relationship, but there was plenty of purple prose written from one to the other and it seems clear that the two were inseperable. Interpret that as you may.

  8. I thought 1 in every 10 people were gay anyway, wouldn’t be surprising then for some Caths to be gay!

  9. “Their burial in the same tomb was Newman?s emphatic wish. In a note written on 23 July 1876, the year following the death of Ambrose St John, he declared: I wish, with all my heart, to be buried in Fr Ambrose St John?s grave – and I give this as my last, my imperative will.

    Newman seems to have first met Ambrose St John in the spring of 1841.
    “From the first he loved me with an intensity of love, which was unaccountable,”
    Newman later wrote. As far as this world was concerned I was his first and last.

    After that first meeting in 1841, they would be received into the Catholic Church at almost the same time: St John on 2 October 1845, Newman only a week later on 9 October. Newman?s loss of countless Anglican friends as a result of his being received by Rome created an enduring bond between Newman and St John, which would never be broken. St John?s death devastated Newman; he called the loss the greatest affliction I have had in my life. I have ever thought no bereavement was equal to that of a husband?s or a wife?s, he wrote, but I feel it difficult to believe that any can be greater, or any one?s sorrow greater, than mine.”
    (The Tablet)

  10. why not focus on the living and the wrong doing ratzinger is responsible for instead of political manipulations? that would be something worth doing
    I mean this to ratzinger and all who are in church and not other readers on this site

  11. I’d rather believe in Jesus than Calvin Klein

  12. Calvin Klein is real unlike bibull jesus

  13. “I like Calvin Klein, I like Jesus, but which one’s better? There’s only one way to find out… FIGHT!”
    But seriously there’s one that I rely on every day, that offers me comfort in times of trouble and is always there for support where I need it, and the other one’s Jesus! B-dmmmmm tish!

  14. “How can light go together with darkness? What else we will see on this deluded website?” How about Michelangelo – manifestly homosexual and creator of the splendid Sistine ceiling under which the cardinals congregate to the select the pope. Boy do you need a history lesson or two.

  15. “Aggressive secularism”….hmmmmmmmmmm, that’s code for “don’t allow gays full equality, the will destroy marriage as we know it”. You can imagine the conversation he had with David Cameron about that. If Cameron decides against the ban on same-sex civil marriage, you’ll know who we’ll have to thank for it.

  16. Robin Ellwood 20 Sep 2010, 2:42pm

    Please don’t compare Newman with Tony Blair – there just is no comparison. Blair is a liar and a warmonger and only interested in promoting himself. Newman was at least humble

  17. Deeside Will 20 Sep 2010, 6:16pm

    In his spiritual autobiography, “Apologia pro Vita Sua”, Newman said that he became convinced at the age of fifteen “that it would be the will of God that I should live a single life.” “There can be no mistake about the fact,” he wrote.

    A Protestant writer (I can’t remember which one) commented that perhaps, on the contrary, it was the will of God that he should spend more time in the fresh air and sunshine. Although that suggestion came too late for Newman – he was, I think, already dead by the time that it was written – it may still be useful advice for those gay people who feel inclined to listen to those who try to persuade them that it is the will of God that they should not enter into gay relationships.

  18. Deeside Will said: Newman said that he became convinced at the age of fifteen “that it would be the will of God that I should live a single life.”

    Sounds like that other well-known heterosexual, Cliff Richard :-)

  19. I am sick to death of hearing about the Pope, Catholics, Cardinal Newman and Jesus and all the rest of it. I will they would all just crawl back into their pits. They have had 2000 years to make a convincing case for themselves and their obnoxious outdated beliefs. But science and evidence and research consistently proves them wrong.

  20. Too bad the pope didn’t resign over the endless molestation and how he and the whole hierarchy hid it for god only knows how long.

    And in 2009 he UNexcommunciated a holocasut denier. Bishop williamson, anther ex anglican priest. As if 55 million deaths and hte holocaust dont get throught to the leader of the church of life

    And his telling aFricans not to use condoms. Equivalent to “go die”{

    Sorry its really not the church of tghe molestation. It is the church of the worst mass murders in history.

    Including the christian crusades from 900-1500. 40-50 million Muslims murdered by corrupt popes in concert with corrupt kings.

    The very existance of the catholic church is the proof that god is a fignment of superstition, tribalism and ignorance.

    But as goebbels said – tell a lie often enough and it will be seen as the truth.

    And when your foundation is a lie, then everything on top of it has to be a lie.

    Until we can bring the whole rotten edifice down. And use its history to teach future generations about mass murder in the name of God.

  21. JOhn replied to chrisse………

    The popes compassion includes saying that trans people will mean the end of the human race. And talking about the ‘ecolgy of the human body”, which is really calling gay people pollution (dirt) on the face of the earth.

    This all from his Xmas 2008 message. And people like him talk together – a couple of Israeli ultra -orthodox Jews – members of the Knesset said not 2 weeks later “gays were worse then bird flu” All but echoing the pope, that was a call for the extermination of gay people by Jews whose close ancestors shared the gays fates in hitlers ovens.

    (BTW – I was Jewish until that statement, my wife is Jewish, and fortunately only 1 of my 3 kids are relgiious.)

    I think JOhn that you are a good man, but you have to look at the whole scene. And realize where the pope grew up, how the church is dying in Latin America (6 nations with gay marriage / CUs), W. europe where only Italy and greece dont recognize gay couples, and about a dozen others.

    the church is all but dead, thank God> It will do anything at all to protect its lies, the biggest of course is the divinity story / virgin birth from a woman most likely raped in a society where women who weren’t virgins on their wedding day were stoned to death.

    there is no compassion to gays in the church, there is only a carefully worded call for their murder lest the people begin to question the whole scene and the house of cards collapses.

    And the history of the church – including the Inquisiiton, the 1000 year dark ages, the murder of 40 million muslims during the crhistian crusades, the burning of women as witches at the stake (source of the “hell” concept. etc etc etc

    Islam is stilll living in the 10th century. In many ways the catholic church is similar to it. Control of women by men, hating gays, absolutist power over minds etc etc.

    If you can ever get past the fear and paranoia of burning in hell and the promise of a life insurance policy based on superstiition and words from an age of ignorance an fear, you might understand better.

    As my very catholic woman neighbor said to me
    “this is not the christianity I was brought up to believe in. And when benedict was appointed, I cried”

    “And they were anything but tears of Joy”

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