And also hotels in the EU to recognise Same-Sex Marriage/Partnerships to holidaying partners.
But CPs are not “gay” in other countries, this is not just a LGBT issue…we don’t recognise French different sex couples in a CP/PACs (and note PACS may be 2 British straights, you don’t have to be French!!), they must first “divorce” in France and then perform a marriage in the UK in order to get any rights here…you can’t be in both… The British CP is totally inadequate, why on earth did they exclude straights and equally why should foreign countries recognise the British CP when we refuse to fully recognise theirs???
Apart from that, some countries don’t have CP BUT THEY ALL HAVE MARRIAGES… How do you equate a CP to nothing or to something that has lesser meaning in another country or is open to straights as well!!. It’s easy to equate/translate a marriage…. WE ALL USE THE WORD MARRIAGE , we don’t all use the words civil partnership.
France has given rights to gay marriages a long time before it recognised foreign CPs. It recognises them for taxes and it recognises them for proper visas for non EU members married (gay or straight) to EU members ie you’re allowed to live with your partner full time!. You get a measely tourist/student visa as a non EU member of a partner of a CP and unlike married couples you have to pay for it….
During the debate, Ms Reding said: “If you live in a legally-recognised same-sex partnership, or marriage, in country A, you have the right – and this is a fundamental right – to take this status and that of your partner to country B. If not, it is a violation of EU law, so there is no discussion about this. . .”
Yes – but not in practice!!!
and how does a country translate a CP and give rights in that country? All CP are different in each EU country – not so with marriages
this is a better article and the debate is good
A GAY GAY GAY WORLD
We need marriage equality throughout the EU and a gender neutral definition of marriage.
Gay couples are being treated apallingly and when they travel or move to live in another EU country, whether temporarily or permanently, the status of their relationship is in jeopardy… no opposite sex couple would be subjected to this indignity, this overt and baseless discrimination only serves to highlight what a mess pseudo-religious anti-gay “moral” prejudice has created.
Marriage equality in EU countries has to be addressed seriously and urgently.
This surely proves that there is only one universal gold standard: MARRIAGE for gay couples. I find it hypocritical of Cashman ranting about EU recognition of the hodge podge of same-sex unions other than marriage when our own damned country refuses to recognise same-sex marriages of British couples who had to leave their own land to marry, as well as foreigh same-sex married couples residing visiting or residing in the UK only to have their marriages and their certificates of marriage downgraded to a civil partnerships which in essence they are not. The two are totally different. Where in a civil partnership contract does it state that it is a marriage or equal thereto I ask? What about EU members that have NO legal unions for gay couples, how on earth can MEPs expect them to recognise them? Its about time the EU Parliament reversed its policy by mandating same-sex civil marriage whether some like it or not. It has nothing to do with religion and is a purely civil matter. End of argument. Cashman should be fighting for our right to marry in our own country first and foremost if he truly believes in full equality at home.
This is how you do it. Make other countries with whom you do business pariahs if they don’t recognize gay couples. Hit them in the pocketbook and their hearts and minds will follow.
Not that I do realize that the only countries in W. Europe that don’t recognize gay relationships are the countries of the shaheen (arabic for devil) churchs – Roman catholic and orthodox.
And yes, sthat is the other issue – marriage is a universally recognized term CUs domestic partnership, and common law marriage etc are not.
Time to convince the new generation that no one will get married until gays can marry. And make sure that marriage is always available as a civil contract between two consenting adults. NO chance that the churches of the shaheen can block marriage for same sexcouples.
It’s like DOMA in the USA. A marriage performed in an EU country should be recognised in ALL EU countries.
but we don’t have marriage , we have a mix of all kinds of everything and worse still nothing at all in some countries … each country may give different rights to same sex couples and some are open to straight couples as well – how do you translate what rights you get? In France, a marriage (gay or straight) is a marriage but CPs are PACS – we’ve been told over in the UK that our CP is a marriage in all but name – not so in France ! Our rights over there ,because of being translated to a PACS and not a marriage, are far less…
There is a danger if we don’t have a marriage then our rights in other EU countries will always be donwgraded to civil unions and domestic partnerships (despite what Reding say that what rights we have in country A goes with you to country B), they may not be upgraded to a marriage where both marriage and domestic partnerships exist. Some may even say that our CP is so different to theirs that they have no idea what rights to give us. A CP is not a marriage in the UK so why give us the same rights as married couples in other EU countries. Marriages can always be downgraded to CPs eg Germany, UK , Switzerland but I know that in France they are not upgraded to a marriage despite being told by the govt and others that they are the same…
The EU has often stated it will not get involved in matters such as this. What is it with politicians and churches? Are these people terrified of pissing off the Bishops and Cardinals, or what?
As Father Ted would say “It’s an ecumenical matter.”
Even if British CP’s were dropped, and we had gay marriage, do you seriously think the Italians would recognise it? Let alone raging homophobes like Estonia or Lithuania.
The only way this will ever change is if that bunch of nest-feathering bureaucrats in Brussels actually starts justifying it’s existence and levelling the playing field across the entire union. What do we pay these people £45m a day for?
Oh yeah, free lunches and generating paperwork.
We need marriage defined and clarified, both for gays and straights, and *everyone* abides by it. These people chose to join the EU, so love me, love my dog. If you don’t like it, fcuk off back to the dark ages, and leave the rest of us to move forward.
There is nothing in the legislation to state that CP is a joining of two people with the same sexuality, only the same sex.
Not EQUAL = Not EQUAL
Separation of Church and State!!!
Yes, let’s all level the playing field!
Joe in California:
I think that’s a bit rich coming from a country that defends it’s antiqued constitution that defends free speech, particularly religious ones, such as the homophobic Westboro Baptist Church, and allows fruitloop ‘pastors’ to threaten to burn copies of the koran and set the whole Islamic world on Westerners backs.
I suggest you get your own house in order before criticising ours.
But Spanner that’s what the argument was all about – if you move to Italy etc then you retain your civil status as ms reding stated and as pavlos has already quoted she said “”If you live in a legally-recognised same-sex partnership, or marriage, in country A, you have the right – and this is a fundamental right – to take this status and that of your partner to country B. If not, it is a violation of EU law, so there is no discussion about this. . .” . Read the article in ukgaynews or her summation on the debate…
The problem with CPs and the like is that they are all different in each country, how do you translate them , marriage is usually the same (with some difference eg adoption for gay marriages)
This is exactly why civil unions are no good and can only ever offer limited rights compared to marriage. We need universal marriage equality over the whole EU. Forcing EU countries to recognise marriages performed in other EU countries would be the ideal and it needs to happen if fairness is to prevail.
I still don’t think you have grasped what I am saying; If the UK were to drop CPs and simply have ‘marriage’ as an all encompassing description for str8′s and gays alike, that still would not automatically entitle us to be treated the same way by other countries. If country ‘B’ does not recognise same-sex marriage, you are still persona non grata.
The only way it will be settled is if the EU defines precisely what marriage is, and everyone is forced to follow that ruling, but that is very unlikely to happen because politicians don’t like to tangle with God, or his self-righteous representatives.
Spanner – we can’t force other countries to have SS marriage for their own citizens , the directive has nothing to do with changing the marriage/civil law in these countries – IT ONLY ALLOWS THE PRINCIPLE OF FREE MOVEMENT, full stop , nothing more!!!. It’s not about forcing countries to have their own SS marriage or CPs , it’s about allowing EU people to move within the EU and to have the rights that they have legally obtained in 1 country given to them in another country.Without that then it’s not possible to have free movement. Marriage is a civil status that all countries know, there is no standard status for CPs.
Ms Reding states quite clearly:
“The directive has brought a very significant improvement for same-sex couples. I would like to thank Parliament, because it was Parliament which really pushed this through. EU law has provided, for the first time, for the right of both same-sex and different sex couples to move and reside freely within the European Union.
That said, it is implicit that if you are allowed to move freely and to reside freely, then you must also have the same rights at your second place of residence as you do at your first place of residence. It is for the Member States, as has been said, to decide whether or not they provide for registered partnerships or for a legal order, but what we are gradually seeing is more and more Member States moving in the direction of either recognising or allowing same-sex marriages”